View Full Version : Why hasn't the FBI been deployed to protect Federal property?
Nightvisionary
07-23-20, 09:55
The FBI HRT was all over the Bundy Malheur BLM standoff in Oregon in 2016. So far I have only seen Federal Protective Service, U.S. Marshals, and Border Patrol BORTAC units deployed against rioters in Portland. There seems to be a purposeful shift in what agencies are involved.
Maybe the President has lost confidence in the FBI and it's leadership.
ruckusjuice
07-23-20, 10:23
FPS has the legal authority to cross designate other DHS personnel with their authorities regarding the protection of federal property. The FBI is not a DHS component. Judicial/court security is a normal function of the USMS in their day to day duties. It has nothing to do with politics.
HRT gets deployed to a lot of things that can be handled by others. But I can see where the regional SWAT could be deployed for stuff like this. We do know that DOD assets have been deployed for stuff like this in the past, to acts as "advisers" and "observers."
They have. We had FBI regional SWAT team members helping out here, but they were on rooftops doing SWAT stuff. They weren't on the skirmish line getting shit thrown at them.
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Not exactly in the HRT wheelhouse although in a pinch they could certainly perform the function. When the Ferguson riots were starting to approach the FBI building, the Bureau deployed us, the FBI Police, to serve the purpose of "protection of property owned or occupied by the federal government." Exactly the same as what's going on today, we were deputized at the Marshal's office around the corner from 26 Federal Plaza in NY to ensure that there was no confusion over authority while we were there and could possibly be away from the FBI/federal building's immediate vicinity.
Dr. Bullseye
07-23-20, 12:34
The FBI is worthless. Move the 101st Airborne into Portland and arrest all 500 of these criminals. Move them to a converted Army base and put them on trial there.
WickedWillis
07-23-20, 12:37
The FBI is worthless. Move the 101st Airborne into Portland and arrest all 500 of these criminals. Move them to a converted Army base and put them on trial there.
There is the problem though. Many of these people are just protesting. Not throwing shit, not burning anything down, just peacefully protesting. The bad dudes are doing bad stuff, then fleeing into said crowd and hiding because they are slimy cowards.
You can't just arrest 500 people when a majority are exercising their constitutional rights peacefully.
The FBI HRT was all over the Bundy Malheur BLM standoff in Oregon in 2016. So far I have only seen Federal Protective Service, U.S. Marshals, and Border Patrol BORTAC units deployed against rioters in Portland. There seems to be a purposeful shift in what agencies are involved.
I just assume President Trump wants an effective response. If he wants mothers holding babies murdered or kids burned alive, well he knows who to call...
vicious_cb
07-23-20, 13:58
There is the problem though. Many of these people are just protesting. Not throwing shit, not burning anything down, just peacefully protesting. The bad dudes are doing bad stuff, then fleeing into said crowd and hiding because they are slimy cowards.
You can't just arrest 500 people when a majority are exercising their constitutional rights peacefully.
Lolwut? trying burn down a courthouse for 55 days straight isnt protesting . Stop buying into leftist propaganda.
I just assume President Trump wants an effective response. If he wants mothers holding babies murdered or kids burned alive, well he knows who to call...
Yikes, paint with a broad brush much? HRT have literally done hundreds, maybe into the thousands of jobs throughout the country since that debacle. Can't imagine that there's anybody even left on the teams from that mess.
The overwhelming majority of the FBI are analysts, that's their strength. They're not frontline troops like riot police. Additionally, I wouldn't even rank their regional swat teams in the same realm as LA/Dallas Swat as it's a part time gig unless you screen for HRT.
HRT is surgical, they won't get involved unless necessary.
And GlockTogo: David Koresh is just as responsible for the death of his followers as the FBI & ATF were.
The overwhelming majority of the FBI are analysts, that's their strength. They're not frontline troops like riot police. Additionally, I wouldn't even rank their regional swat teams in the same realm as LA/Dallas Swat as it's a part time gig unless you screen for HRT.
HRT is surgical, they won't get involved unless necessary.
And GlockTogo: David Koresh is just as responsible for the death of his followers as the FBI & ATF were.
FBI is very Special Agent focused but has a whole country full of "support" employees that encompass any job you can imagine in the private sector. We even had a woodworker in the NY office for a while. Regional FBI SWAT teams vary but get more and better training than you would think. Although it's a collateral duty, they get a lot of leeway from casework to train and do jobs. Bigger field office's teams are very active. The one in the NY office was always on rotations to train with tier 1 units from the Army, Navy and our own HRT.
Still part time shooters is what I was getting at, minus your major field offices. Those dedicated to the craft like CAG or HRT will forever be in a league of their own. You want a dude to have the ability to pop a bad dude in the nugget while in a dead sprint, look no further.
**Side note rocsteady: what's your and the overall Bureau's opinon on Chris Whitcomb's book?
Well I seem to have tweaked some noses with my opinion, but whatevs. I know there are some very good SA's in the field, but they're balanced out by ladder climbers. When I look at the misdeeds of the namesake on their HQ, the civil rights debacles of Sessions and Freeh, their intelligence failures leading up to 9/11 (I won't pin that one on Mueller because he was only in the chair for a week. He can keep his place in the Hall of Failures for Whitey Bulger and his role in The Great Russian Conspiracy Hoax), and the deplorable political shenanigans of Lurch, well excuse me if I don't hold them in high regard anymore. Not to mention the FBI crime lab scandals.
Their propaganda on being "the world's premier law enforcement agency" is just so much mental masturbation. They have far too many institutional faults to be regarded all that highly.
These liberal Mayors are trying to bait Trump into taking action that they can then say the President is radical right militant nutcase . Knowing the shithole media will fall right in line. I hope he doesn’t take the bait. Protect the monuments, but let them burn down their own cities and refuse aid when they ask. As they have and Trump said fck off.
TRUMP 2020
PB
Mayor Lighthead in Chicago says she is going to take all legal action “necessary to protect Chicagoans” from the Feds. What? She cannot even protect Chicagoans from Chicagoans. I swear these liberals are truly brain damaged.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chicago-mayor-lightfoot-defends-insulting-texts-to-police-union-president-i-dont-take-back-one-word-that-i-said
dwhitehorne
07-23-20, 16:07
The FBI is worthless. Move the 101st Airborne into Portland and arrest all 500 of these criminals. Move them to a converted Army base and put them on trial there.
Just FYI arresting 500 people is a major logistical feat. The most I've ever been involved with processing is between 250 and 300. Busing, prisoner processing security/logistics are huge. The FBI is not set up for this. FPS/DHS is taking the lead on this although it looks like FBI SWAT is trying to get some stick time. I can't recall any 1811's ever getting CDU training or ever working the line. David
I have dealt with the FBI, both as an American cop, and as an Israeli sent over on an exchange request from the FBI.
They have never failed to impress me as a bunch of ego driven, short on results, but ready to grab the credit, kinds of people.
Post the election of 2016, and the illegal activities of the FBI against the Trump campaign. I have come to the following conclusion.
An organization that was started by a cross dressing homosexual, at a time when such behavior was still taught in every single university in the USA, psychology class as deviant behavior . It is clear to me that Hoover stayed in power through blackmail and intimidation of presidents and Congress. The FBI has not strayed from it's roots.
So why haven't the FBI gone in on the ground in Portland?
They might get hurt, dirty, and they are never going to do anything that might make the organization look bad.
WickedWillis
07-23-20, 17:11
Lolwut? trying burn down a courthouse for 55 days straight isnt protesting . Stop buying into leftist propaganda.
Have you been down there to see anything going on, or just basing what you've seen off the news?
Right now since the arrests hell yeah it looks really bad, because way more people have turned out.
They have never failed to impress me as a bunch of ego driven, short on results, but ready to grab the credit, kinds of people.
As a rookie patrol officer I responded to a bank robbery call. I took the report, one of our detectives came out and I helped him process the scene. He notified the local FBI office and they were much too busy to come out. So, being a small/medium size department I helped with the case to the point that an arrest warrant was obtained . I got a tip and a while later I arrested the subject at the bus station and took him to the PD. An FBI agent shows up and takes the subject into custody. The next day the newspaper headlines say “FBI Agent ____ Breaks Case, Arrests Bank Robbery Suspect”.
The next day the newspaper headlines say “FBI Agent ____ Breaks Case, Arrests Bank Robbery Suspect”.
flenna, I know that well. When I worked pro act, a street crimes unit, we had a serial bank robber. He robbed about a dozen banks. So my partner who was the sergeant of the unit and myself, did good old fashion police work and tracked down the suspect. Our unit was a plain clothes unit. But when we figured out who the suspect was and where he lived, we started wearing uniforms, to reduce the chance of friendly fire.
So bank gets robbed and we drone our regular car to the guys house and hide near his front porch. Guy comes home and we arrest him. We cuff him up and head to the precinct. The newspapers got people there to take out photos in uniform perp walking the guy in. We locked the guy in a holding cell and called major crime detectives. Radio dispatched our detective to our location and it seems the FBI monitors our radios. So the feds send a couple of worthless human beings to take over so they can arrest the suspect.
Our detectives got a search warrant and we all went to the suspects house, it was a typical junkies house dirty as can be. So the FBI gets redirected to the suspects house and just stood there doing nothing.
So I asked the one idiot, err I mean agent why he wasn't searching. He replied he didn't want to get his suit dirty, I offered him a pair of coveralls that I had in the car. He refused.
Worthless.
But in the paper when the FBI tried to take credit. It told a story of our work and our arrest and above the fold front page the photo of me and my boss walking the suspect into the station.
Travelingchild
07-23-20, 17:38
... Move the 101st Airborne into Portland and arrest all 500 of these criminals...
Everheard of Posse Comitatus Act?
I've trained with BORSTAR, which was excellent, solid guys. I've trained with HRT, a bunch of douchebags. CAG-DEVGRU-operator wannabes. I've had nothing but good dealings with some regional SWAT.
Dr. Bullseye
07-23-20, 21:31
Has anyone seen the FBI do anything starting with 9/10/01? The exception is the coupe they ran against Trump. The real question is why hasn't the FBI been fired?
There is the problem though. Many of these people are just protesting. Not throwing shit, not burning anything down, just peacefully protesting. The bad dudes are doing bad stuff, then fleeing into said crowd and hiding because they are slimy cowards.
You can't just arrest 500 people when a majority are exercising their constitutional rights peacefully.
They are willfully providing cover. A lot of the “peaceful protesters” are the “getaway drivers” of this situation.
Well I seem to have tweaked some noses with my opinion, but whatevs. I know there are some very good SA's in the field, but they're balanced out by ladder climbers. When I look at the misdeeds of the namesake on their HQ, the civil rights debacles of Sessions and Freeh, their intelligence failures leading up to 9/11 (I won't pin that one on Mueller because he was only in the chair for a week. He can keep his place in the Hall of Failures for Whitey Bulger and his role in The Great Russian Conspiracy Hoax), and the deplorable political shenanigans of Lurch, well excuse me if I don't hold them in high regard anymore. Not to mention the FBI crime lab scandals.
Their propaganda on being "the world's premier law enforcement agency" is just so much mental masturbation. They have far too many institutional faults to be regarded all that highly.
I have trained on occasion with the HRT guys and have seen some stuff that's just spectacular and I like a bunch of those guys but since the whole Comey debacle, I have lost all of the "premier law enforcement agency" pride that I had before. LOTS of employees, especially older agents lost it too and left between then and now. I continue to think that a lot of our squads do a great job but more and more I'm usually drawn to the TFOs from outside agencies when I'm looking for how stuff gets done. Inside, it's .gov standard when it comes to the support employees, some good, lots of bad that would never make it in the private sector and in the last 5 years or so, lots of younger ones that still hold Comey in very high regard. Me? I think he's a disgrace and the way the Bureau conducted itself since the middle of 2015 where Trump is concerned turns my stomach. The fact that our top level folks still want to dismiss it all as a bunch of "honest mistakes" just makes it worse. I feel like they are just another arm of the democrat/media/socialist/left that's so in control of everything now. At least when i was with the police unit I still felt that brotherhood with both federal and local/state cops no matter what we were working on; not much of that once you get out of the uniform AND stay in the bureau though. I'm coming up on 14 years in and have a decent retirement to look forward to, but I'm always looking for a way back in to a PD as a firearms instructor or something to that effect. If FPS ever allowed non-vets to apply, I think I would give that a shot while I'm still physically able to do LE work.
RMike89 I really haven't heard a word about that book. I actually had to google it to remember who he was?
WickedWillis
07-24-20, 10:55
They are willfully providing cover. A lot of the “peaceful protesters” are the “getaway drivers” of this situation.
Very well could be, but when I was down there a few weeks ago there was 15- maybe 20 people there, and NONE of them were throwing things or trying to gain access to the building the few hours we were down there.
I understand things have changed since I was there, and the hinge seems to be the first time a fed arrested someone on video (Which truthfully appeared more like an informant grab than a real arrest).
Moral of the story is, don't try and burn or destroy ANY property, but especially federal property.
Hence why I think Bortac was the designated unit to go in and do trunk monkey stuff, the FBI doesn't want to be the poster child for something that's obviously controversial but otherwise necessary.
The FBI has been intrinsically tied to the political system since its inception, as noted by a few posts here. Too many Special Agents utilizing their clearance to go on and get cushy jobs in think tanks, law firms etc...same issue that plagues the upper echelons of the military. Individuals that have never been on the front line, but always quick to take credit.
As for HRT, I know a few individuals that have deployed with them overseas in combat zones and for the most part have great things to say. But then again, the dudes that get slotted for overseas, cross-unit deployments are probably higher on the spectrum of capabilities than most, given the fact that it was one HRT dude to a platoon of rangers in the height of the surge and COIN. While they are competent, they'll never be as competent to their forefathers in CAG, the stories I've heard about the initial invasion in '03 and subsequent actions are absolutely mind-boggling.
I have trained on occasion with the HRT guys and have seen some stuff that's just spectacular and I like a bunch of those guys but since the whole Comey debacle, I have lost all of the "premier law enforcement agency" pride that I had before. LOTS of employees, especially older agents lost it too and left between then and now. I continue to think that a lot of our squads do a great job but more and more I'm usually drawn to the TFOs from outside agencies when I'm looking for how stuff gets done. Inside, it's .gov standard when it comes to the support employees, some good, lots of bad that would never make it in the private sector and in the last 5 years or so, lots of younger ones that still hold Comey in very high regard. Me? I think he's a disgrace and the way the Bureau conducted itself since the middle of 2015 where Trump is concerned turns my stomach. The fact that our top level folks still want to dismiss it all as a bunch of "honest mistakes" just makes it worse. I feel like they are just another arm of the democrat/media/socialist/left that's so in control of everything now. At least when i was with the police unit I still felt that brotherhood with both federal and local/state cops no matter what we were working on; not much of that once you get out of the uniform AND stay in the bureau though. I'm coming up on 14 years in and have a decent retirement to look forward to, but I'm always looking for a way back in to a PD as a firearms instructor or something to that effect. If FPS ever allowed non-vets to apply, I think I would give that a shot while I'm still physically able to do LE work.
RMike89 I really haven't heard a word about that book. I actually had to google it to remember who he was?
I should point out that I worked closely with a local SABT for 13 years who was A.J. Squaredaway, but he was also former SFO-D. I think the world of him and even on the very rare occasions we disagreed, I respected where he was coming from. He's expressed some of the same sentiments you are now. He retired 2 years ago is now in local emergency management, which is great but I don't have the same level of confidence or rapport with his younger replacement. :(
I really wish you the best and hope you land somewhere good.
I should point out that I worked closely with a local SABT for 13 years who was A.J. Squaredaway, but he was also former SFO-D. I think the world of him and even on the very rare occasions we disagreed, I respected where he was coming from. He's expressed some of the same sentiments you are now. He retired 2 years ago is now in local emergency management, which is great but I don't have the same level of confidence or rapport with his younger replacement. :(
I really wish you the best and hope you land somewhere good.
Appreciate that
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