View Full Version : 14.5 vs 16” rifle
After doing some initial research, I wanted to see what the current consensus was for which barrel length is superior for a general purpose rifle - 14.5 pinned and welded or 16”. Does the increased maneuverability and weight savings outweigh the hassle of pinning and welding a 14.5 barrel, or is the 16” still a good choice?
I believe 14.5” had more to do with the bayonet.
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MontanaMarine
07-28-20, 00:26
I have both and prefer the 14.5". More personal preference than anything else.
In reality, they are far more alike than different.
titsonritz
07-28-20, 00:32
My personal thoughts and what I generally recommend to people starting out is to stick with a 16" barrel with a mid length gas system. It gives the opportunity to experiment with with different handguards/barrel nuts, muzzle devices and gas blocks. That said, 14.5" middy is a sweet machine if you know what you want and the reality is a 14.5" w/ an A2X in only 1" shorter than a 16" with a standard A2, in other word the difference between the two is not earth shattering, using something like a B.E. MEYERS 249F is more apparent.
ETA:
BTW, I voted 16".
16" all the way. There's virtually no difference in handling, to me, and you don't have a welded FH.
ColtSeavers
07-28-20, 01:46
Voted 16" as it gives you freedom to change.
14.5" p/w requires you to know what you want and/or be able to live with it. Kind of like a tattoo. If you're good with that, go mid length gas.
For the record, I have both.
Not a fan of suppressors on 14.5-16 as opposed to 10.3-11”
That said sounds like you already have the intended suppressor so 14.5 with p/w makes the most sense as you won’t be swapping MD
Every inch counts..ask your wife
In my opinion, saving 1.25 inches is not worth the hassle of pinning and welding the muzzle device. I have a 14.5" barrel on a M4 build - having the current FH removed and replaced will add expense and hassle when I buy a supressor. I can just replace the FH on my 11.3, 16, or 18" guns and rock on.
Andy
P.S. it took me a moment or two to realize that the poll option does not show in the mobile view.
Now that we have the "other firearms" classification in CT, I prefer 14.5" or 12.5" due to the firearm being lighter and easier to maneuver. It gives up nothing for me where most of my shooting is >200 yards.
14.5 for me. I only have a 16" because it has rifle irons/handguards.
Neither is objectively “better.” Barrel profile is more of a topic when comparing barrels this close in length, IMHO.
The 16” isn’t that much longer, and you can change things, and you get a little more velocity. I have pared down to one 16”, a 12.5, and a suppressed-only 11.5.”
With that said...
If you have enough experience to know what you like, know what you want, know the intended purpose, know what suppressor is already purchased, know that you don’t need to stretch the velocity as far as possible, and don’t mind the added expense of pinning/welding, then there are some benefits to the 13.7-14.7” lengths. A) It’s shorter. B) It is not restricted in any way while being shorter. C) It saves a little weight if an appropriate-to-purpose profile is chosen, which may start to matter with the added weight of a suppressor. D) If used with a suppressor, the pin/weld can be an advantage if the suppressor gets baked on.
If I only were going to have one upper, and if I didn’t already have an SBR lower and did not want one, I would probably pin a BRT 14.0” barrel. But I didn’t and won’t do this.
A 16” seems like the easier and more practical choice. Then go shorter to 11.3-12.5 for a CQB and suppressed setup.
I prefer 14.5, but I've decided that I can "live" with a closed tine WarComp. If you haven't made the decision to stick to a MD then 16". The difference in weight & handling isn't huge but I'll take it.
Given this is the tech forum, I'd point out that you will see differences in gas pressure and muzzle velocity between the 14.5 and 16 inch. The relevance of said difference depends on the ammo you are using and what you are using the rifle for. You may also see differences in reliability due to the different pressures. Gas pressure drives bolt velocity which in turn drives buffer spring and weight (IOT mitigate bolt balance, etc.) Also, differences in gas systems carbine vs mid-length can change the gas pressure equation. We've got some SMEs around here that really talk intelligently about it.
I use a 14.5 service rifle (M4A1) and own 16" and 14.5" perm pinned. The M4A1 is really good getting into and out of vehicles and in closed spaces. The 14.5 with pinned device measured out to 16.1ish where my 16 with device ranged from 17-18 inches, so a little longer.
For a general purpose rifle for a civilian that can't/won't SBR, I generally recomend the 16" mid length from a reputable vendor. That way you don't have to worry as much about the law, you can remove the muzzle device to change rails, gas system parts etc.
jackblack73
07-28-20, 10:35
If it were me, I wouldn't be considering 16 vs 14.5. I'd be considering 16 vs 13.7-13.9, depending on muzzle device. If you're going to pin and weld, make it worth your while.
Depends on your plans.
For general purpose without a form 1, I’d take a 14.5 with a can every day over a 16 with the same can unless I’m shooting 500+ yards. Without a can, I’d want overall length to be at 16. For longer muzzle devices, get a shorter barrel to match. Most 16” barrels are just 18” once the muzzle device is on. Walk through your house with a broom handle the length of a rifle with 18” to see how narrow your doorways have become. If you live in a barn, that isn’t an issue.
I don’t find the argument “but you’re married to your muzzle device” to be convincing for multiple reasons.
MC_Oper8or
07-28-20, 12:10
I second jackblacks 13.9 recommendation.
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Depends on your plans.
For general purpose without a form 1, I’d take a 14.5 with a can every day over a 16 with the same can unless I’m shooting 500+ yards. Without a can, I’d want overall length to be at 16. For longer muzzle devices, get a shorter barrel to match. Most 16” barrels are just 18” once the muzzle device is on. Walk through your house with a broom handle the length of a rifle with 18” to see how narrow your doorways have become. If you live in a barn, that isn’t an issue.
I don’t find the argument “but you’re married to your muzzle device” to be convincing for multiple reasons.
Your point is taken but your math is off. A 14.5 with A2 flash hider is less than 16". A 16" with an A2 FH is closer to 17" than 18.
Turning OCD off now.
Andy
Mine are 16” just because they came 16” and I didn’t care to spend the money to have ‘em cut down and P&W.
Not much different either way.
I prefer 16" just because it allows much greater flexibility in changing your muzzle device and handguard if you ever decide you want to.
Depends on your plans.
For general purpose without a form 1, I’d take a 14.5 with a can every day over a 16 with the same can unless I’m shooting 500+ yards. Without a can, I’d want overall length to be at 16. For longer muzzle devices, get a shorter barrel to match. Most 16” barrels are just 18” once the muzzle device is on. Walk through your house with a broom handle the length of a rifle with 18” to see how narrow your doorways have become. If you live in a barn, that isn’t an issue.
I don’t find the argument “but you’re married to your muzzle device” to be convincing for multiple reasons.
Yer right, because if it’s a duty or a fighting rifle, you shouldn’t ever need anything more than a good flash hider or a can anyways. No need to change muzzle devices
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ColtSeavers
07-28-20, 21:51
16 + 1.75 + .145 - .625 = 17.27
16" barrel
A2 flash hider/comp
Crush washer
Threading
Lazy napkin math.
I have both and prefer the 14.5". More personal preference than anything else.
In reality, they are far more alike than different.
Don’t think I could agree more. You’ll find intense debates over this but at the end of the day it comes down to which is less of an annoyance to you: pinned MD or longer barrel and possibly handguard?
I vote 14.5 pinned all day.
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Thanks for the info. Since I am going with just an A2 flash hider for both, no suppressors (will get a shorty pistol for suppressor host down the road), I’m probably gonna go with 16”.
I've owned a few ARs in different lengths from 10.5 inches to 20 inches, including a 16 inch middy. I currently own two 14.5 inch SOCOM barreled ARs, a couple of 11.5 inch ARs and a 20 inch ARs. I traded off the 16 inch middy and have no desire for another.
The 14.5 inch ARs have pinned A2 birdcage style muzzle devices. I prefer how they shoot and their balance over 16 inch ARs. The difference is subtle but noticeable.
I have both but my 14.5 mid has a sba3 so I can do my OSS can (3.5” over the barrel.)With the silencer, it is still shorter than my BCM with Gunfighter fh. I like the 14.5 more with the can.
Colt Carson
07-30-20, 07:39
You lose so much velocity when you go shorter than 16”, and velocity is the 5.56 main strong point. Just for useless information... a friend and I were shooting mild steel plate with same FMJ ammo. He had 14.5” and mine was 16”. My rounds went through clean, but his couldn’t make it and just left a bubble on the backside of the plate. His twist was 1/7 and mine is 1/9, but I don’t know if that affects bullet velocity. I just thought that was curious given the small difference in barrel length.
You lose so much velocity when you go shorter than 16”, and velocity is the 5.56 main strong point. Just for useless information... a friend and I were shooting mild steel plate with same FMJ ammo. He had 14.5” and mine was 16”. My rounds went through clean, but his couldn’t make it and just left a bubble on the backside of the plate. His twist was 1/7 and mine is 1/9, but I don’t know if that affects bullet velocity. I just thought that was curious given the small difference in barrel length.
It’s about 100-150 FPS per barre inch for standard range ammo IIRC.
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grizzlyblake
07-30-20, 08:01
16" for me simply because it's completely modular and can be worked on by me. A pinned and welded muzzle device on a 14.5" means I have to get a gun smith for any work on the gas block, etc.
You lose so much velocity when you go shorter than 16”, and velocity is the 5.56 main strong point. Just for useless information... a friend and I were shooting mild steel plate with same FMJ ammo. He had 14.5” and mine was 16”. My rounds went through clean, but his couldn’t make it and just left a bubble on the backside of the plate. His twist was 1/7 and mine is 1/9, but I don’t know if that affects bullet velocity. I just thought that was curious given the small difference in barrel length.
However an 11.5 with good ammo is WAY more effective defensively than a 16 with FMJ. If for whatever, insane reason someone chose FMJ for defensive ammo, YES, you want the longest barrel you can stand and a good luck charm to increase the odds of the crappy ammo fragging.
I've owned a few ARs in different lengths from 10.5 inches to 20 inches, including a 16 inch middy. I currently own two 14.5 inch SOCOM barreled ARs, a couple of 11.5 inch ARs and a 20 inch ARs. I traded off the 16 inch middy and have no desire for another.
The 14.5 inch ARs have pinned A2 birdcage style muzzle devices. I prefer how they shoot and their balance over 16 inch ARs. The difference is subtle but noticeable.
Plus those 14.5” SOCOM barrel are D-LUXE! I wouldnt want anything else
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I have 2 rifles set up pretty identical except one is a 16" 6.8 and the other is a 14.5 556. They handle pretty identical except the 6.8 is a bit heavier due to the s2w profile vs the socom profile.
Pin a Warcomp on the 14.5” Socom and call it good. You don’t even have to think
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Thanks for the info. Since I am going with just an A2 flash hider for both, no suppressors (will get a shorty pistol for suppressor host down the road), I’m probably gonna go with 16”.
Now you’re changing the criteria, OP. :)
If you have a shorty, get a 16” or longer for the other rifle. I just wouldn’t call it “general purpose” if that propose includes home defense with standard 30” doorways.
Now you’re changing the criteria, OP. :)
If you have a shorty, get a 16” or longer for the other rifle. I just wouldn’t call it “general purpose” if that propose includes home defense with standard 30” doorways.
Right now this would be my only rifle. Although not ideal, I figure I can get the job done with the 16”.
daddyusmaximus
07-31-20, 13:00
I don't think that there's enough difference in 1.5" to worry about for most people. I wouldn't if I already had one or the other, but If I was building new, I'd go 14.5" just to keep the package as compact as possible. The inch, and a half isn't gonna make a lot of difference during normal use, but it may make all the difference in a vehicle, or in a bag, case, or whatever storage...
Leonidas24
07-31-20, 14:43
It’s about 100-150 FPS per barre inch for standard range ammo IIRC.
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Not quite, but going from 16" to 14.5" shows the most dramatic decrease in velocity when compared against other lengths.
223 Remington/ 5.56mm NATO barrel length and velocity: 26 inches to 6 inches (https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/223-remington-5-56mm-nato-barrel-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/)
Straight Shooter
08-01-20, 11:04
Two barrel lengths I just cannot see a use for personally are 14.5" & 18".
I voted 14.5 but only if your going to pin and weld. Otherwise its not worth the hassle of getting an NFA stamp. This coming from a stamp collector!
PB
Two barrel lengths I just cannot see a use for personally are 14.5" & 18".
Why 18"?
Straight Shooter
08-01-20, 13:03
Why 18"?
Barely better than a 16"...less than a 20". Would/would not a person wanting an 18" be looking for a velocity gain? Get a 20" for the win.
Its really just my personal thought, I aint gonna get mad if others disagree.
And to buy a 14.5" inch..then pay to have it P&W to 16"? What the hell good is that? Or, pay $200 for an inch and a half's worth of barrel?
Nah. Ive no need for a rifle under 16"...but for those that do ROCK ON.
Or, pay $200 for an inch and a half's worth of barrel?
I look at it like the $200 makes the lower eligible for any length of barrel, including 14.5"
I would never take a perfectly good 14.5 and pin it. That's a crime.
Straight Shooter
08-01-20, 14:06
I look at it like the $200 makes the lower eligible for any length of barrel, including 14.5"
I would never take a perfectly good 14.5 and pin it. That's a crime.
I agree with 100%...a 11.5"-13.7" I get....for some reason, and I FULLY admit I might be wrong, I just aint getting 14.5".
I see the point of an 18”, but only when compared to a 14.5 or 12.5, not a 16.” That said, it was the choice for SPR’s.
Barely better than a 16"...less than a 20". Would/would not a person wanting an 18" be looking for a velocity gain? Get a 20" for the win.
I thought 18" was the shortest recommended barrel for a rifle-length gas system and its benefits.
A 20" AR gains less than 100 fps over an 18". The 18" barrel is a little lighter and a little handier, and mine runs 100% with the rifle length gas system.
Andy
Straight Shooter
08-01-20, 20:52
I thought 18" was the shortest recommended barrel for a rifle-length gas system and its benefits.
A 20" AR gains less than 100 fps over an 18". The 18" barrel is a little lighter and a little handier, and mine runs 100% with the rifle length gas system.
Andy
I dont know the minimun length... [I] coulda sworn I ve seen a 16" with rifle gas..but I cant remember where/when.
And your right AL...BUt when I spec'ed out my spr I wanted max velocity & at 600yrds plus...every bit helps. I aint AGAINST an 18", it aint like theyre junk or something...but for me if all there were left were 16" & 18"'s Id be ok with it.
To be honest, I wonder why I went with an 18" barrel when I have 16" ARs, even though I like the way it turned out. There just isn't a huge difference between them.
Andy
Straight Shooter
08-02-20, 02:01
To be honest, I wonder why I went with an 18" barrel when I have 16" ARs, even though I like the way it turned out. There just isn't a huge difference between them.
Andy
Cause, a man likes, what a man likes. My thoughts on the subject could well be wrong to most here..but they are mine, and come after a lifetime of a considerable amount of shooting and love of weapons, as I know your thoughts have too.
As long as we are proficient..we are fine.
Not quite, but going from 16" to 14.5" shows the most dramatic decrease in velocity when compared against other lengths.
223 Remington/ 5.56mm NATO barrel length and velocity: 26 inches to 6 inches (https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/223-remington-5-56mm-nato-barrel-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/)
They didn't test 16 & 14.5 inch lengths. They tested 16.5 & 14 inch lengths.
They didn't test 16 & 14.5 inch lengths. They tested 16.5 & 14 inch lengths.
The most bizarre part of the test - they avoided testing 2 of the most common lengths and the 2 that many people are interested in comparing.
Andy
ViniVidivici
08-03-20, 10:42
Me, I'm not following some arbitrary and ridiculous law and having FH pinned and welded onto a barrel. The concept is, in my brain, idiotic, and I will never get past it.
16" for that "medium size/weight" gun is, I think, optimum. I have a handle extension on my bayonet, fits perfectly.
I like 11.5" for the short/light niche, and 18" for a "long gun".
Can't see a reason to ever own a 14.5.
Me, I'm not following some arbitrary and ridiculous law and having FH pinned and welded onto a barrel. The concept is, in my brain, idiotic, and I will never get past it.
16" for that "medium size/weight" gun is, I think, optimum. I have a handle extension on my bayonet, fits perfectly.
I like 11.5" for the short/light niche, and 18" for a "long gun".
Can't see a reason to ever own a 14.5.
FWIW, a 16" midlength mounts an M7/M9 bayonet just fine. Not a huge selling point for me, but it works.
Andy
Colt Carson
08-03-20, 23:53
In the AR15 a barrel length of 14.5 to 20 inches seems practical depending on your priorities. I know they are gaining popularity in recent years, but to me the shorter barrel lengths just seem like expensive noise makers. Just my opinion.
vicious_cb
08-04-20, 02:26
You lose so much velocity when you go shorter than 16”, and velocity is the 5.56 main strong point. Just for useless information... a friend and I were shooting mild steel plate with same FMJ ammo. He had 14.5” and mine was 16”. My rounds went through clean, but his couldn’t make it and just left a bubble on the backside of the plate. His twist was 1/7 and mine is 1/9, but I don’t know if that affects bullet velocity. I just thought that was curious given the small difference in barrel length.
I would check out the terminal ballistics forum if you still think the velocity difference between a 14.5" and 16" makes a difference in lethality of the 5.56. cartridge
In the AR15 a barrel length of 14.5 to 20 inches seems practical depending on your priorities. I know they are gaining popularity in recent years, but to me the shorter barrel lengths just seem like expensive noise makers. Just my opinion.
There are people out there who go in and out of vehicles and structures all the time as well as put things like suppressors on their guns.
Renegade04
08-04-20, 06:40
I will say this, I have ARs in both 14.5" and 16". When I do not feel the need to go through the expense and inconvenience of having a muzzle device pinned and welded or if I am building a specific clone, I will get a 16" barrel and have done so many a time. The weight savings between the two barrels is negligible to me and the cost savings is advantageous as it allows for part of the budget to be better spent in other areas of a build.
Right now this would be my only rifle. Although not ideal, I figure I can get the job done with the 16”.
if it is your only rifle, I recommend 16" simply because you can change things on and off. As you shoot you will develop preferences and once you know what you want go build yourself a 14.5 pinned. I have built several, my last built is a 10.3... after some troubleshooting and help from some members of this forum... I am very very happy... but before having a shorty, I built two 16" that I use to hunt and precision. I built an 18" that I sold... it was great but could not see a major difference with m 16". I have a 14.5 pinned that I use to practice. I have played with the idea of changing something and I cannot because it is pinned. I have my do it all... a 12.5 noveske... I simply love it. If I had to choose one, that is the one that comes home with me. I built a 10.3 to carry during these troubled times since I spend a lot of time on the road.... it is also for my wife since she likes the weight and maneuverability.
Again... if it is your first and only gun for a while go with the 16".
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