View Full Version : Shortages of ammunition and firearms ramping up
So yeah, the painfully obvious, significant shortages of ammo (.22lr, 9mm, .45 acp, .223/5.56) and popular gun models are nationwide. Not surprised by that completely, but surprised how bad it is already. I don't shop a ton the last year or two because I am pretty well stocked. Was looking around this week for some .22lr and was pretty stunned at the state of things.
A few articles discussing the nationwide supply situation:
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/unprecedented-demand-on-guns-and-ammo-putting-pressure-on-supply-chain-04-08-2020
https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-wake-of-protests-gun-sales-so-high-retailers-running-out-of-guns-and-ammo-report-says
https://freebeacon.com/issues/record-setting-gun-sales-could-leave-stores-dry/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-firearms-ammunitions-sales
https://apnews.com/71efde2c4c5057bd17f790bfac62dcc3
In addition to that:
1. Two LGS that I work with in WA state say that due to COVID-19, there's been a disruption in supply of both new firearms, and ammo. In some cases because OEM factories shut down. They cannot get any of the most popular calibers, and models. For instance try to get a G19 Gen5, or a case 5.56 or 9mm any brand: forget it.
2. Beyond the local scene, I went to several of my favorite online stores for firearms and ammunition. Out of EVERYthing in the popular models and calibers, and slim pickings in calibers that I use that are less popular, such as 6.5 Grendel.
Speculation about what's driving those trends, in order of importance:
1. COVID-19 related disruptions in supply.
2. Increased buying due to social unrest.
3. Early ramp-up buying anticipating left-wing election victories resulting in further gun control legislation.
Any other factors? Is it gonna' get better within 12 months *if* Trump is re-elected, or do we expect the supply situation continues indefinitely due to the OTHER factors we're facing, items 1 and 2 above?
teufelhund1918
07-29-20, 06:31
Local gun shop is continually packed selling about everything they can get their hands on. Talked to a couple of the fellas I know and they are saying it's to the point that it is almost impossible to get new stock in, esp shotguns and M4 style weapons. Ammo is the same situation. It goes out the door as fast as it comes in.
BoringGuy45
07-29-20, 06:38
Right now, it's hard to find anything: Minor accessories (grips, rail covers, etc), plate carriers, combat shirts...
Plate carriers and plates are getting thin.
If I needed to buy a long gun for defense it would be a 12 gauge shotgun, at least ammo is available around here.
I didn't expect parts/accessories to sell out so quickly.
I don't need anything (maybe plate carrier and plates) but don't like the inconvenience of it all.
Andy
My question; how in HELL did people not see this coming?
My question; how in HELL did people not see this coming?
Saw it coming later this year, but Covid/stimulus/riots moved it up about 3 months. My needs are covered, but it's still a PITA. I cannot buy ammo to replace what I shoot to keep my stocks at the same level.
Andy
I have no shortage of ammunition, reloading components or firearms.
I have no shortage of ammunition, reloading components or firearms.
Same. The FAKEdemic, FAKEracism, and all other propaganda never triggered the slightest thought that I'm short on gun crap.
Ammo can be found online & I don't see the shortages beyond the local brick & mortars w. said panic buying...just gotta pony up to the new market.
My question; how in HELL did people not see this coming?
Funny you should say that. I had this exact conversation yesterday when I visited a local range. The owners told me there was something like 5 million first time gun buyers last month alone. Their observations are a bell weather of the shifting mindset of society. People are complacent and ignore the writing on the wall. Every new owner visiting the range says the same thing- they are scared of what’s coming. The Obama years were like a long drought- things were scarce but people managed. There were many first time gun owners but it was buying to own before the threat of bans. First timers showed up, got trained but many didn’t buy memberships or maintain their training. The start of the Trump administration was a relief- people relaxed, supply chain caught up and prices returned to normal.
To address your question- mainstream society is too concerned about getting up voted for sharing meaningless details of the boring lives and fitting in with the herd. Then COVID happened. Some new gun buyers got ahead of the tsunami but most gun & ammo sales were hoarders or flippers. Then the riots started. Suddenly every one from all walks of life showed up, wanting a firearm. Many single women are showing up seeking advice on training and guidance on proper use of force. The range cannot reliably source ammunition outside of shotgun shells. Suppliers are first come, first served. The range owners are limiting ammo sales to a boxes only, no bulk sales, knowing that they will lose more business if there is nothing on the shelves for the rookies. I saw the same thing at Sportsmans Warehouse- people bought what ever gun was on the shelf without realizing that it is useless without ammunition. The shelves are consistently bare, outside of the oddball calibers and most reloading components. I think powder is the limiting factor there.
In short, the bulk of society are sheep, waiting for the next signal for how to act. When the threat of wolves suddenly becomes real they are caught off guard and panic.
The sheepdog occasionally bites the troublemaker sheep who dress up like wolves, by honest mistake. Rather than give the sheepdog the benefit of the doubt, the sheep attack, devalue and demean the sheepdog to the point where he cannot effectively fulfill his purpose, and the real wolves are the first to take note. The sheep then panic and try to form a hopelessly inadequate defense. Welcome to America Farm
Evel Baldgui
07-29-20, 09:26
Ammo online is somewhat available, if one is willing pay an exorbitant price i.e. $600/case of 9mm or 5.56; to think that $300 for 1k of 9mm is a deal! On a local gun trader site, Glocks are selling for $700 to $1200, to me its ridiculous. However, if I were a first time buyer in need of a firearm/ammo I'd pay it without thinking twice. Abusive ? Perhaps, but it is market/supply/demand driven.
All types of firearms are available here, I've been to several shops and if I wanted a Glock, SIG, CZ, Springfield, Colt, whatever no problem. Oh wait, you want ammo with that? How many good kidneys do you have? Children maybe, arm, leg? How much do you want it?
I'm going to say this and probably jinx it but I think there's more ammo available now then there was say 3 weeks ago.
Looking at Sgammo, they had 556 about mid of last week that lasted into the weekend. Didn't sell out in the typical 5 minutes. Right now they have 556 available and it hasn't sold out in 5 min either. That makes it about a week they've had a small but steady supply.
Local gunsmith has had 556 in stock at about 50 cents/round. Not a huge supply nor much of a selection but it's there. He also has 330blk pistol still available.
Maybe wallets are starting to run dry?!? Or people are desensitized by now
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My question; how in HELL did people not see this coming?
The people who don't stock up are either not serious shooters who've learned to stock a regular supply while prices are good, or they haven't lived through the boom-bust cycles enough times to get the message that it's always gonna be this way.
I'm going to say this and probably jinx it but I think there's more Ann available now then there was say 3 weeks ago.
Looking at Sgammo, they had 556 about mid of last week that lasted into the weekend. Didn't sell out in the typical 5 minutes. Right now they have 556 available and it hasn't sold out in 5 min either. That makes it about a week they've had a small but steady supply.
Local gunsmith has had 556 in stock at about 50 cents/round. Not a huge supply nor much of a selection but it's there. He also has 330blk pistol still available.
Maybe wallets are starting to run dry?!? Or people are desensitized by now
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
OK, good sign, at least it's there. I just checked with my LGS and they have some Wolf 9mm, 50 rounds at $15.00 . I resent paying so much for cheapo ammo but I might buy a few boxes later.
In short, the bulk of society are sheep, waiting for the next signal for how to act. When the threat of wolves suddenly becomes real they are caught off guard and panic.
The HERD, has two speeds, grazing (head up their ass) and Stampede! (Oh My God, Panic Everyone!!!!!)
IKnowNotEverything
07-29-20, 11:11
Some people just can’t afford to have a large surplus of firearms, mags, and ammo. My family thinks I’m nuts because I have several rifles, two Glocks and a couple thousand rounds of 5.56.
If I had the funds I’d have so much more. And everyone realizing they should do at least the same is playing catch-up, because they know the next ban is coming.
I am focusing on mags and gear for now, and reloading equipment for the future. I hope ammo normalizes, but I doubt it.
Some people just can’t afford to have a large surplus of firearms, mags, and ammo. My family thinks I’m nuts because I have several rifles, two Glocks and a couple thousand rounds of 5.56.
If I had the funds I’d have so much more. And everyone realizing they should do at least the same is playing catch-up, because they know the next ban is coming.
I am focusing on mags and gear for now, and reloading equipment for the future. I hope ammo normalizes, but I doubt it.
I hear you, if my family just knew how much I had.. Yet this is my break-glass supply, never to be touched unless...
I prefer to keep ammo like any other budgeted expense. Just buy whatever version meets my needs on a budgeted basis. Sometimes that's getting a good deal on reloading components, sometimes that's factory ammo by the case. For a while, it was factory ammo. Thankfully I have reloading components to see me through for a while, and the budgeted purchases simply continue. I'd actually consider that green tip in post #14 if it were Lake City instead of Federal.
The sheepdog occasionally bites the troublemaker sheep who dress up like wolves, by honest mistake. Rather than give the sheepdog the benefit of the doubt, the sheep attack, devalue and demean the sheepdog to the point where he cannot effectively fulfill his purpose, and the real wolves are the first to take note. The sheep then panic and try to form a hopelessly inadequate defense. Welcome to America Farm
Are you calling for total immunity for a few occupational classes?
Is it gonna' get better within 12 months *if* Trump is re-elected, or do we expect the supply situation continues indefinitely due to the OTHER factors we're facing, items 1 and 2 above?
IF biden is elected, guns and ammo will double or triple in price
IF trump is re-elected, it will go back to the way things were last year, cheap and widely available guns and ammo.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that 1/3rd of renters didn't pay their rent on time last month. boats, RVs, campers, motorcycles and the like sales are through the roof. I've heard some RV retailers claim sales are up 600%. heard a boat retailer say they sold their entire stock. BMW had a record quarter last EDIT ending in june. (i'm trying to buy a gsa and there aren't many in stock)
My point is that our society is chock full of idiots who having just experienced pandemics and riots and shortages of everything from toilet paper to beef have decided in their wisdom to en masse a) stop paying their rent, b) stay home and collect unemployment instead of working, c) spend their gov freebies and handouts (aka stimulus) on downpayments for 0% loans on rapidly depreciating toys they can't afford, which they will be upside down on their loans for 10 years, or maybe forever.
yay public education.
at the same time, due to pandemic related shut down, almost every municipality, county, state and certainly the fed gov, has seen tax revenue drop precipitously, while spending skyrockets. the feds alone spent $4.45 TRILLION just last year, and that was before stimulous and riots etc. The point is, every dollar they spend creates inflation. realistically, your dollar today is probably worth half of what it was in 2018, you just don't know it yet.
so, even IF trump gets reelected AND covid disappears AND the race riots stop, it is highly likely we will have a financial reckoning in a year or two. if that leads to Greek style "Austerity" or a Cyprus style "bail in", the civil unrest in this country will be 4 orders of magnitude worse than it is today. And the alternative to that is hyper inflation (far more likely), in which case, again, the civil unrest will be unreal.
the challenge though, is that in either of those situations, it will be venezuelay. everyone will want giant stock piles of guns and ammo, but in reality, they'll will stand in line for 8 hours to sell their gun to buy a bag of rice.
BoringGuy45
07-29-20, 11:54
I think things could still get worse if Trump is reelected. Antifa and BLM will stop hiding the claim that throwing Molotovs and spraying pepper spray counts as "unarmed, peaceful protest" and will probably go for full civil war. Both sides, plus the government, will be buying up everything.
I think things could still get worse if Trump is reelected. Antifa and BLM will stop hiding the claim that throwing Molotovs and spraying pepper spray counts as "unarmed, peaceful protest" and will probably go for full civil war. Both sides, plus the government, will be buying up everything.
Exactly. It doesn't matter what happens in November. Shortages and high costs will persist for the foreseeable future in my opinion. Buy what you need, when you can. We are now in a "Soviet Style" economy. When you see a line forming on the street- get in it! It may be the only chance you have for the next 3 months to buy steaks, or toilet paper or shoes or lightbulbs or whatever. Sorry, but that's about how it's looking for many consumer items and what is available is all up in price....
I was in the local Sams just yesterday. Good stocks of meat, cheese, peanut butter.....Rice and beans a little low and canned meat pretty much sold out..... There was only one kind of TP and they had maybe 6 packs of it left- that's with limits of 1 case per shopper. Only one kind of dishwashing soap....Same for paper towels. Lysol- Unobtainium. Hand sanitizer and rubbing alcohol- Unobtainium.
So yeah, the painfully obvious, significant shortages of ammo (.22lr, 9mm, .45 acp, .223/5.56) and popular gun models are nationwide. Not surprised by that completely, but surprised how bad it is already. I don't shop a ton the last year or two because I am pretty well stocked. Was looking around this week for some .22lr and was pretty stunned at the state of things.
A few articles discussing the nationwide supply situation:
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/unprecedented-demand-on-guns-and-ammo-putting-pressure-on-supply-chain-04-08-2020
https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-wake-of-protests-gun-sales-so-high-retailers-running-out-of-guns-and-ammo-report-says
https://freebeacon.com/issues/record-setting-gun-sales-could-leave-stores-dry/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-firearms-ammunitions-sales
https://apnews.com/71efde2c4c5057bd17f790bfac62dcc3
In addition to that:
1. Two LGS that I work with in WA state say that due to COVID-19, there's been a disruption in supply of both new firearms, and ammo. In some cases because OEM factories shut down. They cannot get any of the most popular calibers, and models. For instance try to get a G19 Gen5, or a case 5.56 or 9mm any brand: forget it.
2. Beyond the local scene, I went to several of my favorite online stores for firearms and ammunition. Out of EVERYthing in the popular models and calibers, and slim pickings in calibers that I use that are less popular, such as 6.5 Grendel.
Speculation about what's driving those trends, in order of importance:
1. COVID-19 related disruptions in supply.
2. Increased buying due to social unrest.
3. Early ramp-up buying anticipating left-wing election victories resulting in further gun control legislation.
Any other factors? Is it gonna' get better within 12 months *if* Trump is re-elected, or do we expect the supply situation continues indefinitely due to the OTHER factors we're facing, items 1 and 2 above?
I ordered my G19 Gen 5 MOS last Thursday and it will arrive at my dealer tomorrow (delay was due to sending an updated FFL copy).
But getting 300BLK supers? Yeah, I just can't. :(
I think things could still get worse if Trump is reelected. Antifa and BLM will stop hiding the claim that throwing Molotovs and spraying pepper spray counts as "unarmed, peaceful protest" and will probably go for full civil war. Both sides, plus the government, will be buying up everything.
If President Trump is re-elected and there is a civil war, we will be on the right side of it. If Biden wins, we are traitors and alt-right bigots.
Andy
I ordered my G19 Gen 5 MOS last Thursday and it will arrive at my dealer tomorrow (delay was due to sending an updated FFL copy).
But getting 300BLK supers? Yeah, I just can't. :(
Two weeks ago I bought a Glock 21SF regular label and a Glock 19M Blue Label (using my DD214 for Glock's one-time Blue Label offer this year). Both were in stock. Just had to call and drive about 40 minutes, no biggie.
IF biden is elected, guns and ammo will double or triple in price
IF trump is re-elected, it will go back to the way things were last year, cheap and widely available guns and ammo.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that 1/3rd of renters didn't pay their rent on time last month. boats, RVs, campers, motorcycles and the like sales are through the roof. I've heard some RV retailers claim sales are up 600%. heard a boat retailer say they sold their entire stock. BMW had a record quarter last year. (i'm trying to buy a gsa and there aren't many in stock)
My point is that our society is chock full of idiots who having just experienced pandemics and riots and shortages of everything from toilet paper to beef have decided in their wisdom to en masse a) stop paying their rent, b) stay home and collect unemployment instead of working, c) spend their gov freebies and handouts (aka stimulus) on downpayments for 0% loans on rapidly depreciating toys they can't afford, which they will be upside down on their loans for 10 years, or maybe forever.
yay public education.
at the same time, due to pandemic related shut down, almost every municipality, county, state and certainly the fed gov, has seen tax revenue drop precipitously, while spending skyrockets. the feds alone spent $4.45 TRILLION just last year, and that was before stimulous and riots etc. The point is, every dollar they spend creates inflation. realistically, your dollar today is probably worth half of what it was in 2018, you just don't know it yet.
so, even IF trump gets reelected AND covid disappears AND the race riots stop, it is highly likely we will have a financial reckoning in a year or two. if that leads to Greek style "Austerity" or a Cyprus style "bail in", the civil unrest in this country will be 4 orders of magnitude worse than it is today. And the alternative to that is hyper inflation (far more likely), in which case, again, the civil unrest will be unreal.
the challenge though, is that in either of those situations, it will be venezuelay. everyone will want giant stock piles of guns and ammo, but in reality, they'll will stand in line for 8 hours to sell their gun to buy a bag of rice.
Damn that was fire. A lot of people need to read that a time or two.
IF biden is elected, guns and ammo will double or triple in price
IF trump is re-elected, it will go back to the way things were last year, cheap and widely available guns and ammo.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that 1/3rd of renters didn't pay their rent on time last month. boats, RVs, campers, motorcycles and the like sales are through the roof. I've heard some RV retailers claim sales are up 600%. heard a boat retailer say they sold their entire stock. BMW had a record quarter last year. (i'm trying to buy a gsa and there aren't many in stock)
My point is that our society is chock full of idiots who having just experienced pandemics and riots and shortages of everything from toilet paper to beef have decided in their wisdom to en masse a) stop paying their rent, b) stay home and collect unemployment instead of working, c) spend their gov freebies and handouts (aka stimulus) on downpayments for 0% loans on rapidly depreciating toys they can't afford, which they will be upside down on their loans for 10 years, or maybe forever.
yay public education.
at the same time, due to pandemic related shut down, almost every municipality, county, state and certainly the fed gov, has seen tax revenue drop precipitously, while spending skyrockets. the feds alone spent $4.45 TRILLION just last year, and that was before stimulous and riots etc. The point is, every dollar they spend creates inflation. realistically, your dollar today is probably worth half of what it was in 2018, you just don't know it yet.
so, even IF trump gets reelected AND covid disappears AND the race riots stop, it is highly likely we will have a financial reckoning in a year or two. if that leads to Greek style "Austerity" or a Cyprus style "bail in", the civil unrest in this country will be 4 orders of magnitude worse than it is today. And the alternative to that is hyper inflation (far more likely), in which case, again, the civil unrest will be unreal.
the challenge though, is that in either of those situations, it will be venezuelay. everyone will want giant stock piles of guns and ammo, but in reality, they'll will stand in line for 8 hours to sell their gun to buy a bag of rice.
Very Interesting and insightful. Well said.
Vic, we were 1 minute apart.
PB
If President Trump is re-elected and there is a civil war, we will be on the right side of it. If Biden wins, we are traitors and alt-right bigots.
Andy
Yet we will be well-armed traitors and bigots! ;)
IF biden is elected, guns and ammo will double or triple in price
IF trump is re-elected, it will go back to the way things were last year, cheap and widely available guns and ammo.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that 1/3rd of renters didn't pay their rent on time last month. boats, RVs, campers, motorcycles and the like sales are through the roof. I've heard some RV retailers claim sales are up 600%. heard a boat retailer say they sold their entire stock. BMW had a record quarter last year. (i'm trying to buy a gsa and there aren't many in stock)
My point is that our society is chock full of idiots who having just experienced pandemics and riots and shortages of everything from toilet paper to beef have decided in their wisdom to en masse a) stop paying their rent, b) stay home and collect unemployment instead of working, c) spend their gov freebies and handouts (aka stimulus) on downpayments for 0% loans on rapidly depreciating toys they can't afford, which they will be upside down on their loans for 10 years, or maybe forever.
yay public education.
at the same time, due to pandemic related shut down, almost every municipality, county, state and certainly the fed gov, has seen tax revenue drop precipitously, while spending skyrockets. the feds alone spent $4.45 TRILLION just last year, and that was before stimulous and riots etc. The point is, every dollar they spend creates inflation. realistically, your dollar today is probably worth half of what it was in 2018, you just don't know it yet.
so, even IF trump gets reelected AND covid disappears AND the race riots stop, it is highly likely we will have a financial reckoning in a year or two. if that leads to Greek style "Austerity" or a Cyprus style "bail in", the civil unrest in this country will be 4 orders of magnitude worse than it is today. And the alternative to that is hyper inflation (far more likely), in which case, again, the civil unrest will be unreal.
the challenge though, is that in either of those situations, it will be venezuelay. everyone will want giant stock piles of guns and ammo, but in reality, they'll will stand in line for 8 hours to sell their gun to buy a bag of rice.
Some idiot the other day got caught using PPP money to buy a Lambo. :rolleyes:
Two weeks ago I bought a Glock 21SF regular label and a Glock 19M Blue Label (using my DD214 for Glock's one-time Blue Label offer this year). Both were in stock. Just had to call and drive about 40 minutes, no biggie.
Yeah, the G19 MOS is blue label. Thank God for GT Distributors!
Two weeks ago I bought a Glock 21SF regular label and a Glock 19M Blue Label (using my DD214 for Glock's one-time Blue Label offer this year). Both were in stock. Just had to call and drive about 40 minutes, no biggie.
Yeah, the G19 MOS is blue label. Thank God for GT Distributors!
Yeah, the G19 MOS is blue label. Thank God for GT Distributors!
No, not the MOS but the 19M, the one the FBI is now issuing. The MOS has the red dot cut-out, the 19M does not.
I have access to ammo.
What do people think is it worth it to bring in a container of 5.56 and 9mm ball?
I have access to ammo.
What do people think is it worth it to bring in a container of 5.56 and 9mm ball?
Do it and sell exclusively to M4C members!
StovePipe_Jammer
07-29-20, 14:28
If President Trump is re-elected and there is a civil war, we will be on the right side of it. If Biden wins, we are traitors and alt-right bigots.
Andy
It's already starting to solidify into something more with Portland vs the Feds. Portland leadership is implying they can pull back the rioters if such and such conditions are met, essentially a modern day letter of marque with regards to the rioters. As time passes, it's becoming apparent it's really the state and their ideology versus the federal government. Trump winning reelection will only crank it up to 11.
A Trump win will likely see more states attempting toss out the federal government to varying degrees. Anyone "caught behind the lines" will be subject to whatever supporting someone to the right of Marx in an area like that gets them. E&E to a better state/area.
I don't disagree that we are on the right side with law and order and supporting the constitution, regardless of what happens. But an election outcome will not change the labels of "traitors and alt-right bigots" that the left tag us with. The outcome only determines how much force they'll have to be able to do something about it.
As we get closer to the election, the shortages will get worse. The panic buying these past few months wasn't about bans but due to the potential for real-world application. As the election draws near, what isn't bolted down will disappear as those that are concerned about bans will jump into the fray.
After November, if things really do "go hot", regardless of who's in charge, do we really believe the .gov crowd will continue to allow gun and ammo sales? Maybe on a federal level but state and local dependent?
Grand58742
07-29-20, 14:40
Seems as if every two to four years we say the same thing...
"If you haven't stocked up already, you're wrong."
I halfway made that mistake in 2012 before the Sandy Hook shooting. I had some of what I wanted, but was not comfortable. I think I'm comfortable now and just "maintain" through each crisis and replace/replenish as it gets used up.
Do I have enough for the rest of my life? No, but I do have enough to last for a while.
Adrenaline_6
07-29-20, 14:46
I just bought 1000 rds of 9mm white box 115g online for $222 last week. Just gotta keep your eyes open. Not exactly pre-panic prices, but not too bad.
I just bought 1000 rds of 9mm white box 115g online for $222 last week. Just gotta keep your eyes open. Not exactly pre-panic prices, but not too bad.
That's almost pre-pandemic-communist uprising price. I remember when they were $170 per 1000. January was so long ago.
Do it and sell exclusively to M4C members!
I would not be opposed to giving the great people here first crack at it.
Heck I would even sell to the few not so great that are here. jijijijijijiji
fedupflyer
07-29-20, 14:52
HOWEVER, keep in mind that 1/3rd of renters didn't pay their rent on time last month. boats, RVs, campers, motorcycles and the like sales are through the roof. I've heard some RV retailers claim sales are up 600%. heard a boat retailer say they sold their entire stock. BMW had a record quarter last EDIT ending in june. (i'm trying to buy a gsa and there aren't many in stock)
I would not say they are idiots, more like freeloaders and moochers. We saw it with the sub-prime loan debacle. People buying houses that could barely afford to make the interest payment on those luxury homes. Now we are seeing folks buying toys with some money from Uncle Sugar and when the bill comes due, they will let the bank come and get it. There will probable be another program to let them walk away from their poor finical responsibility yet again.
~Snip~
I don't disagree that we are on the right side with law and order and supporting the constitution, regardless of what happens. But an election outcome will not change the labels of "traitors and alt-right bigots" that the left tag us with. The outcome only determines how much force they'll have to be able to do something about it.
~Snip~
Your whole post is solid, I just want to say that I don't care what the marxists call us, I care what the Federales do about it.
Andy
My question; how in HELL did people not see this coming?Not everyone is interested in that. A close friend of mine come to mind. And while I have a similar outlook his is more conservative.
Im willing to raise my CC payment a little to get some more ammo. Meanwhile he makes at least 3x more than I do and will not budge on buying things. If he has 3 rounds total and ammo is now $5/round he will have 3 rounds even if he makes more than Bezo. If you ask him how will you practice he'll say he won't without a care. It's just not part of who he is. He doesn't think he needs to be John Wick to defend his house.
Just last week I tried to get him to go half on a case of 556. After finding out it's 46 cents a round before shipping and taxes his response was F that maybe I'll just sell all of mine
Not everyone is interested in that. A close friend of mine come to mind. And while I have a similar outlook his is more conservative.
Im willing to raise my CC payment a little to get some more ammo. Meanwhile he makes at least 3x more than I do and will not budge on buying things. If he has 3 rounds total and ammo is now $5/round he will have 3 rounds even if he makes more than Bezo. If you ask him how will you practice he'll say he won't without a care. It's just not part of who he is. He doesn't think he needs to be John Wick to defend his house
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I'm not interested in buying ammo on credit, or guns for that matter.
Andy
I have access to ammo.
What do people think is it worth it to bring in a container of 5.56 and 9mm ball?Yes it's probably worth it. I say that not knowing how hard or how much it actually costs to do so and in how many quantity!
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
I would not be opposed to giving the great people here first crack at it.
Heck I would even sell to the few not so great that are here. jijijijijijiji
Yoni, you can put me on the 9mm list!!
I was just in Sportsmans and saw a Colt 6920 for $1,200. If it were Friday it would be in my car. I just finished a two week Family vacation in Florida so I'm tapped out. Did get 1,000 FGGM lrg rifle primers for $27. I gotta think that was mis-marked.
PB
Tomorrow, we will look at what permits we need to import the ammo and sell it online.
Some people just can’t afford to have a large surplus of firearms, mags, and ammo. My family thinks I’m nuts because I have several rifles, two Glocks and a couple thousand rounds of 5.56.
If I had the funds I’d have so much more. And everyone realizing they should do at least the same is playing catch-up, because they know the next ban is coming.
I am focusing on mags and gear for now, and reloading equipment for the future. I hope ammo normalizes, but I doubt it.I come from a family and culture where guns where outlawed and anyone with a gun was a criminal. Same for tattoos....only criminals! Anyway, majority of my family is conservative. I can only think of 2 SJWs everyone else is to one degree or another conservative. Some even own a firearm or two yet they look at me like the crazy one.
You have how many guns? You have how much ammo? Why? You're to old to play make-believe! I try to explain and for the most part I nice about it but ultimately don't care what they think.
Beginning of March I start getting calls and texts.... what do you think of X or how much is is for Y ammo. Where do I buy a specific brand/caliber gun. Even my parents, who always thought I was crazy for stacking ammo and guns.....and I don't have a lot... wanted to know how guns worked and how much ammo I can lend out and if that's even ok to do so
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I'm not interested in buying ammo on credit, or guns for that matter.
AndyI mean credit card. Hard to order ammo on cash. Also his point was he's not interested in paying inflated prices regarding of what's going on and doesn't really care what your argument is since society is still moving, money not spent on ammo is the same money that pays of house faster or buys a second house somewhere else....
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I have access to ammo.
What do people think is it worth it to bring in a container of 5.56 and 9mm ball?
A container... what, like a conex container? You pull that off, someone here would probably put you in for Hero of the M4 Carbine Union award... :laugh:
But I would guess it would depend on type/brand and end-user pricing; aside from myself I know a couple newbies I've been trying to help that might also be interested (maybe), if we're doing some sort of M4C 'group buy'.
...A Trump win will likely see more states attempting toss out the federal government to varying degrees. Anyone "caught behind the lines" will be subject to whatever supporting someone to the right of Marx in an area like that gets them. E&E to a better state/area.
Aside from the thought of being caught behind the shifting lines (I'm between a rock and a hard spot with 2 states that are both likely to veer hard blue in the next election or two), I can't think of a better possible outcome for us.
LET THEM throw the FedGov out and start making their own rules; once they set precedent, what's good for the goose....will allow for those of us who don't want to live in Wakanda/Communist Hell to simply 'walk away'.
Of course we suck at doing anything pro-active, so it's probably just a pipe dream.
I don't disagree that we are on the right side with law and order and supporting the constitution, regardless of what happens. But an election outcome will not change the labels of "traitors and alt-right bigots" that the left tag us with. The outcome only determines how much force they'll have to be able to do something about it.
Yep. Problem is to many of us are to afraid of being "labelled" because it might interrupt our lives, never regarding that if/when the leftists take power, your life is going to be ruined anyway. Read the news; we're already the "bad guy". Have been for some time, and it's only going to get worse.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlertHugeCutworm-size_restricted.gif
As we get closer to the election, the shortages will get worse. The panic buying these past few months wasn't about bans but due to the potential for real-world application. As the election draws near, what isn't bolted down will disappear as those that are concerned about bans will jump into the fray.
After November, if things really do "go hot", regardless of who's in charge, do we really believe the .gov crowd will continue to allow gun and ammo sales? Maybe on a federal level but state and local dependent?
Totally agree; this all kicked off with Corona-chan's arrival because people were expecting a 28 Day Later/ zombie apocalypse with mass social unrest and said "holy shit I need a gun now".
Then the riots happened, and now you have half the country arming for their commie revolution, and the other half arming because they don't want their neighborhood burned down and trashed.
I predict by election the shortage will be WORSE than 2013; there's no better motivation for people to get armed than the possibility of things "getting real..."
If things 'go hot', it won't matter who is in office, there will be mass fed-level bans. Game over man...
... We are now in a "Soviet Style" economy. When you see a line forming on the street- get in it! It may be the only chance you have for the next 3 months to buy steaks, or toilet paper or shoes or lightbulbs or whatever. Sorry, but that's about how it's looking for many consumer items and what is available is all up in price....
I was in the local Sams just yesterday. Good stocks of meat, cheese, peanut butter.....Rice and beans a little low and canned meat pretty much sold out..... There was only one kind of TP and they had maybe 6 packs of it left- that's with limits of 1 case per shopper. Only one kind of dishwashing soap....Same for paper towels. Lysol- Unobtainium. Hand sanitizer and rubbing alcohol- Unobtainium.
I've been seeing talk here and there of impending worldwide shortages of staples, and apparently China is importing foodstuffs on a larger scale than ever.
So I can't say I'm surprised; will just have to see how bad it gets and how much is scaremongering by the conspiracy crowd.
I do find it a little worrying that for mainstream news, there is literally NOTHING being talked about aside from Trump/Biden, BLM/riots, and Covid. Oh, and some celeb chick in a bikini. It's like the rest of the world has ceased to exist...
morbidbattlecry
07-29-20, 15:40
It's bad but at least you can still buy ammo. It was way worse in 2013.
LET THEM throw the FedGov out and start making their own rules; once they set precedent, what's good for the goose....will allow for those of us who don't want to live in Wakanda/Communist Hell to simply 'walk away'.
Of course we suck at doing anything pro-active, so it's probably just a pipe dream.
..
We need strong states and a weak fed. More specifically the fed should only be strong in a few areas, like immigration control. Can’t let cali kick out feds and open their border. We will quickly have more people there than rest of country combined. But feds should only do what they’re allowed in the constitution which isn’t much.
Rifleman_04
07-29-20, 16:32
If things 'go hot', it won't matter who is in office, there will be mass fed-level bans. Game over man...
If things really “go hot” a there will be no fed left to ban anything. If there was a shell of a fed left over it wouldn’t have the means or authority to ban anything.
ColtSeavers
07-29-20, 16:35
Tomorrow, we will look at what permits we need to import the ammo and sell it online.
Cool. IMI? (sorry if the assumption is offputting, honest question, no hidden intent meant)
IWI as of now, I don't know what they have available.
Over night we will be looking at what is available and at what price. We are going to look at all our sources.
We want ammo in the hands of the people if we can help
It will be interesting to see what pricing comes out to be...193 / 855 was anywhere from high $200's - mid $350's before this started if I remember correctly. I don't shoot a whole lot of 9mm but thought the last batch purchased was under $200.
193 & 855 are currently $450 & $500 minimum & 9 is $300 min for brass...I'm in the camp it will come back down as the demand pipeline gets filled up, but do feel the election will make another adjustment as well.
Tomorrow, we will look at what permits we need to import the ammo and sell it online.
I'd be in for a case or 2 of 193 and a case of 9mm at reasonable prices.
Andy
I will be honest and say I don't know what the prices are in the market outside of the USA right now.
But I will not stick it to people in time of shortage, I want to make profit but not rape people on the price.
IWI as of now, I don't know what they have available.
I'd be down for some Israeli ammo big time.
Good looking out Yoni. I’m good but it’s admirable what you’re looking to do. Thanks man.
Averageman
07-29-20, 18:22
Good on you Yoni.
We are now in a "Soviet Style" economy. When you see a line forming on the street- get in it! It may be the only chance you have for the next 3 months to buy steaks, or toilet paper or shoes or lightbulbs or whatever. Sorry, but that's about how it's looking for many consumer items and what is available is all up in price....
.
Having lived I Soviet Union I haven't seen anything close to thatw here. Costco was selling gallon jugs of hand sanitizer. Toilet paper from one end to the other. I don't pay attention to brands since it has one job to do. Could be yesterday's newspaper!
Unless of course you have proof of lines where people don't know why they're in line
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I would be in for some .223 and 9mm.
I’d certainly be interested in IMI 9mm ball and M193, if it were to become available at reasonable prices. My problem is that I’ve been shooting so much in the last few years that I haven’t been able to stockpile 9mm and 5.56 in the double-digit thousands of rounds.
I wouldn’t be opposed to some more IMI 77gr Razor Core either, as I’m down to just a couple hundred rounds of that.
My range sessions have, out necessity, dropped to about 50 rounds of 9mm a week, because I insist on at least shooting handgun regularly. Even a reduced amount is better than nothing.
Having lived I Soviet Union I haven't seen anything close to thatw here. Costco was selling gallon jugs of hand sanitizer. Toilet paper from one end to the other. I don't pay attention to brands since it has one job to do. Could be yesterday's newspaper!
Unless of course you have proof of lines where people don't know why they're in line
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Locally, we have lines to get into Sams and Walmart based on allowable numbers in store. Not always, but semi regularly.
The only reason people know what the lines are for is because frequently there are dry erase boards at the head of the lines that say OUT OF STOCK ITEMS: X,Y, Z ETC....SO, if you want those specific items, dont bother....Its the reverse of the Soviet System---but limited nonetheless......
Toilet paper from one end to the other. I don't pay attention to brands since it has one job to do. Could be yesterday's newspaper!
People would be better off if they smeared poo all over the news rather than read it. Factz
ColtSeavers
07-29-20, 20:30
I will be honest and say I don't know what the prices are in the market outside of the USA right now.
But I will not stick it to people in time of shortage, I want to make profit but not rape people on the price.
SGAmmo and MidwayUSA are the only(? or at least first) two IWI/IMI ammo sellers off the top of my head, check them out for competitive pricing.
I will be honest and say I don't know what the prices are in the market outside of the USA right now.
But I will not stick it to people in time of shortage, I want to make profit but not rape people on the price.
I'll be watching with interest to see what you come up with.
I just got 1200 rounds of IMI delivered today. I just couldn't stop myself. At 56 I think I've got a lifetime supply if i limit myself to 1,000 rounds annually of 5.56, 9mm, and .22. I've been slowly selling off high end AR's as I had too many. As I sold I reinvested in ammo and mags. Spare parts are not an issue. I realize I'm exremely fortunate to be in this position and don't take it lightly. Storage is an issue I've been sorting out, as a simple house fire could be devastating. At this point I'm like many, watching and going day to day. I don't hunt anymore so mostly limit myself to AR's and Glocks, with very few others. After 1994 I vowed to not get caught without again if I could avoid it, and I haven't. I have backed off of the 3-5 thousand rounds a year I used to shoot to build up my supplies. I'm no "survivalist", whatever that is but have looked at other items that could be needed as well to be able to ride out for a bit if the need arises.We live in unstable times and I expect it to get worse before, if ever it gets better.
To answer the original question, there's hardly anything available here from ammo, self defense weapons, or parts. It flies off the shelves.
IWI as of now, I don't know what they have available.
Over night we will be looking at what is available and at what price. We are going to look at all our sources.
We want ammo in the hands of the people if we can help
I'd be interested in a case of 5.56 if the price is right.
AmmoSeek shows a fair bit of 193 (ish) ammo available, but prices start around $0.50 per round. That's a tough pill for me to swallow.
Andy
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-29-20, 22:46
You could always try to gouge the M4C community at a time like this...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224756-COLT-6920-LOWER-DFW-TX&p=2868277#post2868277
You could always try to gouge the M4C community at a time like this...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224756-COLT-6920-LOWER-DFW-TX&p=2868277#post2868277
I saw that earlier this evening and laughed. $675.00 for a stripped lower?!?!?!? That's just ludicrous!
I am a little frustrated with the shortages.
I cleaned out some stuff late last year I hadn't used for some time and was slacking at getting around to getting some new items I'd been wanting and then it was Christmas and New Years and then I had baby twins and then Covid hit and I just missed the boat for a few things I want.
Timing sucks sometimes. Such is life.
Not hurting by any means, but I had some plans for a few things I wanted and now I will just have to wait to see what happens.
I'm not gonna be paying these insane prices for anything, as I don't need it, just want it.
I'll be saving and biding my time, hopefully things can normalize again and we see good prices in the near future. Not holding my breathe though!
I think the salad days are pretty much over and we won't see things get cheap or even reasonable for some time to come.
Locally, we have lines to get into Sams and Walmart based on allowable numbers in store. Not always, but semi regularly.
The only reason people know what the lines are for is because frequently there are dry erase boards at the head of the lines that say OUT OF STOCK ITEMS: X,Y, Z ETC....SO, if you want those specific items, dont bother....Its the reverse of the Soviet System---but limited nonetheless......
That's a line formed based on limited occupancy not because people are in line not knowing what was brought in and hoping to buy it anyway. Maybe it's children's gloves, maybe it's pencils either way we'll wait in line to buy it
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hotrodder636
07-30-20, 03:18
Yoni if you can pull this off and bring some in for a reasonable price, that would be amazing. I really like my IWI ammo.
SGAmmo and MidwayUSA are the only(? or at least first) two IWI/IMI ammo sellers off the top of my head, check them out for competitive pricing.
Widener's also.
Adrenaline_6
07-30-20, 08:17
IF biden is elected, guns and ammo will double or triple in price
IF trump is re-elected, it will go back to the way things were last year, cheap and widely available guns and ammo.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that 1/3rd of renters didn't pay their rent on time last month. boats, RVs, campers, motorcycles and the like sales are through the roof. I've heard some RV retailers claim sales are up 600%. heard a boat retailer say they sold their entire stock. BMW had a record quarter last EDIT ending in june. (i'm trying to buy a gsa and there aren't many in stock)
My point is that our society is chock full of idiots who having just experienced pandemics and riots and shortages of everything from toilet paper to beef have decided in their wisdom to en masse a) stop paying their rent, b) stay home and collect unemployment instead of working, c) spend their gov freebies and handouts (aka stimulus) on downpayments for 0% loans on rapidly depreciating toys they can't afford, which they will be upside down on their loans for 10 years, or maybe forever.
yay public education.
at the same time, due to pandemic related shut down, almost every municipality, county, state and certainly the fed gov, has seen tax revenue drop precipitously, while spending skyrockets. the feds alone spent $4.45 TRILLION just last year, and that was before stimulous and riots etc. The point is, every dollar they spend creates inflation. realistically, your dollar today is probably worth half of what it was in 2018, you just don't know it yet.
so, even IF trump gets reelected AND covid disappears AND the race riots stop, it is highly likely we will have a financial reckoning in a year or two. if that leads to Greek style "Austerity" or a Cyprus style "bail in", the civil unrest in this country will be 4 orders of magnitude worse than it is today. And the alternative to that is hyper inflation (far more likely), in which case, again, the civil unrest will be unreal.
the challenge though, is that in either of those situations, it will be venezuelay. everyone will want giant stock piles of guns and ammo, but in reality, they'll will stand in line for 8 hours to sell their gun to buy a bag of rice.
This is where you are partially wrong. Some might in the beginning, but when the sh*t hits the fan, all those guns and ammo will be used to take those bags of rice from people/stockpiles by force and kill whoever tries to stop them because when it comes down to it, we are the same humans we were 10,000 years ago. We all will protect and provide for our "family" and ourselves and will have zero f*cks about going straight medieval on other people if it comes down to it. The few who don't will be dead in short order.
Adrenaline_6
07-30-20, 08:26
I would be in for some 193 also.
Diamondback
07-30-20, 08:41
I saw that earlier this evening and laughed. $675.00 for a stripped lower?!?!?!? That's just ludicrous!
If somebody's that stupid they DESERVE to be separated from their money... or should have a conservator or legal guardian appointed.
Yoni, I’d like to get in on some of the ammo as well.
Business_Casual
07-30-20, 09:52
I would not be opposed to giving the great people here first crack at it.
Heck I would even sell to the few not so great that are here. jijijijijijiji
I would qualify then!
2K 5.56 would do nicely.
Adrenaline_6
07-30-20, 10:12
That's almost pre-pandemic-communist uprising price. I remember when they were $170 per 1000. January was so long ago.
Yea...it was from Optics Planet with a coupon code. I jumped on it quick.
You could always try to gouge the M4C community at a time like this...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224756-COLT-6920-LOWER-DFW-TX&p=2868277#post2868277
No shit have you taken a look at the EE? Disturbing. For $800 per 1,000 rds of 9mmon GB, I might sell all mine at that price and retire, I mean Fck.
PB
I come from a family and culture where guns where outlawed and anyone with a gun was a criminal. Same for tattoos....only criminals! Anyway, majority of my family is conservative. I can only think of 2 SJWs everyone else is to one degree or another conservative. Some even own a firearm or two yet they look at me like the crazy one.
You have how many guns? You have how much ammo? Why? You're to old to play make-believe! I try to explain and for the most part I nice about it but ultimately don't care what they think.
Beginning of March I start getting calls and texts.... what do you think of X or how much is is for Y ammo. Where do I buy a specific brand/caliber gun. Even my parents, who always thought I was crazy for stacking ammo and guns.....and I don't have a lot... wanted to know how guns worked and how much ammo I can lend out and if that's even ok to do so
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Yep. "We have met the enemy and he is us."
If things really “go hot” a there will be no fed left to ban anything. If there was a shell of a fed left over it wouldn’t have the means or authority to ban anything.
I see your point, but I don't totally agree - I think things are capable of getting MUCH hotter without the Gov. collapsing, or ceasing to [try] to enforce its edicts.
Now, how much people adhere to what the FedGov tells them to do as things ramp up, or how energetic the FedGov wants to get about trying to enforce/control after that point will be the thing to see about.
We need strong states and a weak fed. More specifically the fed should only be strong in a few areas, like immigration control. Can’t let cali kick out feds and open their border. We will quickly have more people there than rest of country combined. But feds should only do what they’re allowed in the constitution which isn’t much.
Sure, let em have at it. As long as other states are going to capitalize on that to enforce their own opposing laws. Kali wants unending 'migrants'? Good for them; I'm gonna head over to state B where they've kicked them all out and won't let any new ones in. State A wants to ban slingshots and butter knives? I'm going to head over to State B where they repealed all fed/state bans and the NFA...
Ideal outcome? Probably not. But plenty of opportunity for state governments with spines who aren't afraid of a twitter mob to reverse all sorts of unconstitutional and social-engineering BS.
IF you can find a state like that, or get people into office who will...
If somebody's that stupid they DESERVE to be separated from their money... or should have a conservator or legal guardian appointed.
I mean... don't forget people were paying stupid money for Colt stuff just a few months ago BEFORE any panic, because it was 'rare'...
"A Trump win will likely see more states attempting toss out the federal government to varying degrees. Anyone "caught behind the lines" will be subject to whatever supporting someone to the right of Marx in an area like that gets them. E&E to a better state/area."
IMO there is a lot of truth in that. A Trump win will embolden governors, mayors, etc. to invoke "states rights". Federal laws will not be enforced and there aren't enough feds to go around. The law will be whatever the mob says it is in that city/state.
I have enough for my needs, but concerned about using too much training. May look into dry-firing drills and other things. Gone are the 500-round/day classes and range days.
grizzlyblake
07-30-20, 13:06
As of this moment I've put a moratorium on shooting. I have enough stuff a long tough time but don't want to waste any of it.
Daily weapon dry firing, manipulation, handling, and familiarization to keep the muscle memory sharp is all I'm doing now.
A few pics looking at 9mm stock in online stores.
63265
63269
63270
As of this moment I've put a moratorium on shooting. I have enough stuff a long tough time but don't want to waste any of it.
That's the way to go. For us, it's hot as hell in the desert now anyway. We almost never "blast" away, and mostly shoot longer distance marksmanship stuff. So any given shoot is a small dent in inventory.
Grand58742
07-30-20, 15:12
That's the way to go. For us, it's hot as hell in the desert now anyway. We almost never "blast" away, and mostly shoot longer distance marksmanship stuff. So any given shoot is a small dent in inventory.
You roll your own though, right?
That's the way to go. For us, it's hot as hell in the desert now anyway. We almost never "blast" away, and mostly shoot longer distance marksmanship stuff. So any given shoot is a small dent in inventory.
This is where I'm headed. I don't own specific long range sticks, but I do have my 7mm Rem Mag sniper er hunting bolt. Easier to score bullets, powder and primers for this. .223 at this point is too precious just blast away with.
I'm not shooting right now either. I did peruse Cheaper than Dirt last evening and was rather appalled by the prices - even more than usual. I guess I'm going to dust off that 1949 Winchester Model 94 and buy some extra 30-30. Still seems to be in stock at a lot of places.
Yoni .... I would be in for a case or so of the 5.56 and 9mm if "reasonable " ..... the last shipment I received of 9mm was in the $.26/rnd range and I refuse to pay the prices I now see.
Thanks for looking in to this !
I`m substituting range time now for dry fire and , recently , air soft . Just got a KWA Sig P226 that mimics the real Sig pretty close in size and weight . Obviously it doesn`t have the recoil etc , but it does let me practice at home and is fairly accurate up to between 10 and 15 yards . Also , a whole lot cheaper to play with and also fits my Sig holster. My range time now is used to confirm my dry fire and airsoft .... and I now go to the range about every week to two weeks instead of several times a week. Not happy with that , but it`s what it is now .
FYI .... a buddy of mine who has a hardware supply business said he could still get .22 LR and shotgun shells at a reasonable price .... the .22LR is in the $.05/rnd range and sold in 500 round bricks . Still checking on the shotgun shells , but he wasn`t sure how long that would last as everything else was gone .
m1a_scoutguy
07-31-20, 01:16
If somebody's that stupid they DESERVE to be separated from their money... or should have a conservator or legal guardian appointed.
Stupid is as stupid does !! Here hold my Beer ! https://www.gunbroker.com/item/875235783 This still has a few days left,,,;) I put stuff like this on my Watch List just so I can see what it ends up at ! People are nuts/desperate ! Last week I saw 10K Winchester SPP go for $1500 bucks,PLUS shipping. Here take a look at this,,pretty crazy again ! https://www.gunbroker.com/Ammunition-Reloading/search?Keywords=winchester%20small%20pistol%20primers I almost considered selling 5K SPP just for some Mad money but came to my senses !!! Over all I'm in good shape, plenty of ammo in all my "needed" calibers both Factory and reloaded & my Dillon is running multiple days a week ! I grabbed 2K of 22/55GRN FMJs last week that came back into stock so I have plenty of projectiles for loading also. I have plenty of others in my stash but wanted to leave them just as they are,in my stash so I had loaded a couple K up and wanted to replenish what I had loaded.
I haven't shot this week but will on the weekend, I shot Sporting Clays last week and then handgun and rifle on Sunday, so my routine is still pretty consistent. I agree the times they are a changin, we can only hope/pray for change but its looking bleaker everyday ! I have multiple people I work with that are all of a sudden getting/wanting guns, I just help them best I can but most just don't f**king get it and as frustrating as it is for me to watch I just laugh to myself and smile and still try to help but it is trying that's for sure. Certain people I just don't even bring up the subject anymore with them, LOL
I would be in for 500 rounds for 9mm and 5.56... If this an M4carbine exclusive
I'm not shooting right now either. I did peruse Cheaper than Dirt last evening and was rather appalled by the prices - even more than usual. I guess I'm going to dust off that 1949 Winchester Model 94 and buy some extra 30-30. Still seems to be in stock at a lot of places.The only reason to visit that site is to point and laugh
Federal is selling direct with free shippping. Prices are higher than we are used to but at least they have stock, even 9mm & .223 & 556
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200731/3528ee3cdd5d07f35a615407e349f9a6.jpg
https://www.federalpremium.com/
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Commenting just so I get any updates on possible IWI ammo...
I use the 77 gr for SBR and 115 gr for pistol. It seems the 115gr razorcore also feeds the Stribog, too...
If you want to see competitive pricing, AmmoSeek has an app that I use at least as a reference.
Commenting just so I get any updates on possible IWI ammo...
I use the 77 gr for SBR and 115 gr for pistol. It seems the 115gr razorcore also feeds the Stribog, too...
If you want to see competitive pricing, AmmoSeek has an app that I use at least as a reference.
My SBR loves the 77gr stuff. I've always wanted to try the M193.
I don't shoot much in the summer anyway. Hot. Humid. Lightning.
Minimum shooting to stay proficient (non-leo) can be done with 50 rds per quarter IMO. (Per pistol type)
So, if you plan to shoot/carry for 30 more years, you'd need 6k rounds minimum in that caliber.
More for spouses, kids, inheritances, etc. It's easy to see why a person would want to stack tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds.
Of course, now isn't the time to do it!
Nightvisionary
08-01-20, 17:21
I haven't purchased a single gun and hardly anything else gun related since the COVID and riots started. I don't understand why people are buying all these guns and ammo when they are only going to either A. Bury it to rust away or get lost to the ages or B. hand it over for disposal to the state or local PD in a few short years. Seems like a waste of money to me. My Nike stock has almost doubled in 2 1/2 years. That seems like a much wiser investment. Hell if you don't like Nike, property or food stocks is certainly wise.
Pacific5th
08-01-20, 17:58
Locally in Spokane and Wenatchee WA I have found a good amount of 22 and some 45 and 556. 9MM is out everywhere. I have been actual gun shopping so can’t comment on that.
ColtSeavers
08-01-20, 22:45
I haven't purchased a single gun and hardly anything else gun related since the COVID and riots started. I don't understand why people are buying all these guns and ammo when they are only going to either A. Bury it to rust away or get lost to the ages or B. hand it over for disposal to the state or local PD in a few short years. Seems like a waste of money to me. My Nike stock has almost doubled in 2 1/2 years. That seems like a much wiser investment. Hell if you don't like Nike, property or food stocks is certainly wise.
Just sell all yours now then while the sellin is good.
Would love to see yoni pull this off. Will be a great service to those who waited too long. While the gettin has been good for some time, priorities get in the way sometimes and not everyone can afford to have ten cases of ammo stacked for a rainy day.
After the 2013 era panic, I resolved to get into loading once components were available. For those on the fence about loading, pull the trigger when availability allows. At worst it’s a back up plan to factory ammo availability.
We are working on this, we got a little side tracked due to having to meet a dead line on a grant program.
With Corona, we have cut the only place we are willing to cut and that is administration, we let everyone go but our admin director.
Between Corona and the state of the world in general, an exotic beach, great cigar and beverage with a few friends is sounding very good.
Evel Baldgui
08-02-20, 08:26
I don't shoot much in the summer anyway. Hot. Humid. Lightning.
Minimum shooting to stay proficient (non-leo) can be done with 50 rds per quarter IMO. (Per pistol type)!
I would say a minimum of 50 -100 rds weekly or biweekly. Shooting a box of ammo every 3 months just isn't enough. Also, hitting a paper target, while stationary, at your local indoor range from 5-20 yds isn't enough either. JMHO.
Local mega gunstore (LMGS) got 75 thousand rounds of brass blazer 9mm in. Sold out in 3 days with a 2 box limit per customer at $16 per box. Been like this for a while. They normally have multiple pallets of brass Blazer out.
That store is in an old grocery store and has 7 grocery style checkout lines for guns (belt and all). Over the last month they are typically 5-6 people deep across all seven lines. Which essentially means a 9mm/40 handgun, self defense shotgun, or an AR is walking out the door every 4-5 minutes.
The demographic is hugely different. It is 15-20 minutes drive outside of metro Atlanta. On a normal day you might see some minorities in the store and they are welcome.
Now probably 50% of the traffic is minority and it's not mixed minorities. it's clearly downtown Atlanta or similar.
I understand the families or the dad you see who's buying some protection because the police are not responding in their zone. Totally understand their need / desire, I would do the same, and I hope they as gun owners become supportive of our rights.
But for every understandable situation like that there are groups of 5-10 males 18 to 25 wearing the t-shirts you would expect them to. Mostly BLM or similar.
I'm not thinking anyone should be discouraged. But I'm more scratching my head what's driving this change, is it an organized push to arm individuals for protest, or what?
These are the same people who is cleaning out the ammunition. I've watched them in groups buy multiple boxes of $50 Hornady critical defense 9 mm from a pallet. Probably because it was the only thing available in boxes of 50.
This is not fuds buying ammunition to flip at gun shows. This is not long time shooters who should have had stocks and are worried about the presidential election. This is a sea change, entirely new demographic who is angry.
I see them at the public shooting ranges in large numbers. I normally try very hard when I see a new shooter of any type to be friendly and help if needed at ranges. This new demographic does not want any of that, some look at you distrustful and sometimes won't even speak to you. (Then again some are nice enough)
For pistols a lot of times I shoot at governors gun club (original smaller location) which is very close to me, clean and well-run. They have 20 lanes. At any given time you would normally see 90% Caucasian shooters. Mostly experienced. For the last month, it's now only 25 to 30% Caucasian. With the majority clearly being first-time shooters. I do see some females of color buying self defense firearms and getting a lesson from the store. Entirely understand and respect that. Then I also see young males with an uncased AR and pockets full of magazines, droopy pants and all. (when your belt line is below your butt and pockets are full of loaded magazines how do you keep the whole mess from falling down? I have a hard time keeping a holstered pistol up!) Sat across from one for 1 for an hour wait recently. Didn't see any hugely unsafe handling, but clearly had the NFAC vibe. Uncased AR made me nervous.
So I'm kind of scratching my head. This is not a color thing, metro atl counties are 25-46% african american... I know African American hunters and sport shooters. And some they just want to defend their families.
Instead, it's the nature of the new shooters, appears to be anger thing. Urban Atlanta people in black slogan t-shirts driving a county away to shop and another county further to shoot. Is this an organized effort? Grass roots word of mouth? I do not believe it's random.
One of my last shifts in Atlanta, I had three guys at a gas station off J Lo tell me, while I'm in uniform, that Atlanta's a black city and that my day was coming.
These people screaming for revolution and suddenly arming themselves want to kill you.
And they will if given the chance.
I haven't purchased a single gun and hardly anything else gun related since the COVID and riots started. I don't understand why people are buying all these guns and ammo when they are only going to either A. Bury it to rust away or get lost to the ages or B. hand it over for disposal to the state or local PD in a few short years. Seems like a waste of money to me. My Nike stock has almost doubled in 2 1/2 years. That seems like a much wiser investment. Hell if you don't like Nike, property or food stocks is certainly wise.
"That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us."
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity forget that ye were once our countrymen."
It really is true, history repeats itself....
I would say a minimum of 50 -100 rds weekly or biweekly. Shooting a box of ammo every 3 months just isn't enough. Also, hitting a paper target, while stationary, at your local indoor range from 5-20 yds isn't enough either. JMHO.
I was averaging 100-200 rounds per week of 9mm but have just recently scaled back to 50 9mm/week to try and stretch what I have left. Rifle shooting has dropped way off too. Once every few weeks to once a month. As much as I prefer shooting rifle from a “fun” standpoint, 99% of the time a handgun is what I’ll actually have on me and it’s also where I’m weaker as a shooter. So even a reduced practice session is better than nothing
I haven't purchased a single gun and hardly anything else gun related since the COVID and riots started. I don't understand why people are buying all these guns and ammo when they are only going to either A. Bury it to rust away or get lost to the ages or B. hand it over for disposal to the state or local PD in a few short years. Seems like a waste of money to me. My Nike stock has almost doubled in 2 1/2 years. That seems like a much wiser investment. Hell if you don't like Nike, property or food stocks is certainly wise.
Do tell which of those two are your plan of action? Since you seem to know what everyone else will do.
Local mega gunstore (LMGS) got 75 thousand rounds of brass blazer 9mm in. Sold out in 3 days with a 2 box limit per customer at $16 per box. Been like this for a while. They normally have multiple pallets of brass Blazer out.
That store is in an old grocery store and has 7 grocery style checkout lines for guns (belt and all). Over the last month they are typically 5-6 people deep across all seven lines. Which essentially means a 9mm/40 handgun, self defense shotgun, or an AR is walking out the door every 4-5 minutes.
The demographic is hugely different. It is 15-20 minutes drive outside of metro Atlanta. On a normal day you might see some minorities in the store and they are welcome.
Now probably 50% of the traffic is minority and it's not mixed minorities. it's clearly downtown Atlanta or similar.
I understand the families or the dad you see who's buying some protection because the police are not responding in their zone. Totally understand their need / desire, I would do the same, and I hope they as gun owners become supportive of our rights.
But for every understandable situation like that there are groups of 5-10 males 18 to 25 wearing the t-shirts you would expect them to. Mostly BLM or similar.
I'm not thinking anyone should be discouraged. But I'm more scratching my head what's driving this change, is it an organized push to arm individuals for protest, or what?
These are the same people who is cleaning out the ammunition. I've watched them in groups buy multiple boxes of $50 Hornady critical defense 9 mm from a pallet. Probably because it was the only thing available in boxes of 50.
This is not fuds buying ammunition to flip at gun shows. This is not long time shooters who should have had stocks and are worried about the presidential election. This is a sea change, entirely new demographic who is angry.
I see them at the public shooting ranges in large numbers. I normally try very hard when I see a new shooter of any type to be friendly and help if needed at ranges. This new demographic does not want any of that, some look at you distrustful and sometimes won't even speak to you. (Then again some are nice enough)
For pistols a lot of times I shoot at governors gun club (original smaller location) which is very close to me, clean and well-run. They have 20 lanes. At any given time you would normally see 90% Caucasian shooters. Mostly experienced. For the last month, it's now only 25 to 30% Caucasian. With the majority clearly being first-time shooters. I do see some females of color buying self defense firearms and getting a lesson from the store. Entirely understand and respect that. Then I also see young males with an uncased AR and pockets full of magazines, droopy pants and all. (when your belt line is below your butt and pockets are full of loaded magazines how do you keep the whole mess from falling down? I have a hard time keeping a holstered pistol up!) Sat across from one for 1 for an hour wait recently. Didn't see any hugely unsafe handling, but clearly had the NFAC vibe. Uncased AR made me nervous.
So I'm kind of scratching my head. This is not a color thing, metro atl counties are 25-46% african american... I know African American hunters and sport shooters. And some they just want to defend their families.
Instead, it's the nature of the new shooters, appears to be anger thing. Urban Atlanta people in black slogan t-shirts driving a county away to shop and another county further to shoot. Is this an organized effort? Grass roots word of mouth? I do not believe it's random.
I try not to be a hypocrite when it comes to the RKBA. The Constitution doesn't apply to only one group of people. Having said that, should their minions (meaning Democrats) gain power this November you can bet your ass the RKBA will not apply to YOU.
One of my last shifts in Atlanta, I had three guys at a gas station off J Lo tell me, while I'm in uniform, that Atlanta's a black city and that my day was coming.
These people screaming for revolution and suddenly arming themselves want to kill you.
And they will if given the chance.
Well they're probably correct if you hang out in Atlanta. But bring it on out to the sticks homie. I don't mean the suburbs, I mean out where I live. They wouldn't like it out here if causing trouble was their goal.
ColtSeavers
08-02-20, 11:46
Would love to see yoni pull this off. Will be a great service to those who waited too long. While the gettin has been good for some time, priorities get in the way sometimes and not everyone can afford to have ten cases of ammo stacked for a rainy day.
This time around I can forgive people. The chinoravirus hit well before the expected election panic. I blow my load on a lot of extras with the first of two 'extra' paychecks a year. This year I got my extra paycheck in May, smack in the middle of the second coming of Johnny Carson's toilet paper shortage. So it went to shoring up food and toilet paper (cleaning supplies), no ammo because there was already a panic on guns and ammo and I figured I'd wait it out and buy after the chinoravirus but still before the election. Well, thanks to certain animals being treated more equal than others, that plan turned to shit, so here I am, I still have a decent stockpile, but not the comfortable one that truly lets me focus on other things.
Nightvisionary
08-02-20, 13:52
Do tell which of those two are your plan of action? Since you seem to know what everyone else will do.
I don't need to guess what everyone will do I just look around and see what everyone else is not doing. The chest thumpers are everywhere but there is no stomach among conservatives for conflict or activism. It is the nature of the history of man. If an American were willing to go out on a limb and put their money and freedom on the line like activists on the left do I would probably already know them. Me, I see the writing on the wall. I have my Nike stock. My plan is to buy a small piece of land in the mountains, retreat, and live out my remaining years in as much peace as I can. No one else is willing to stand up so I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I was wrong and my cause is already lost. I have no desire to be an American Hiroo Onada.
One of my last shifts in Atlanta, I had three guys at a gas station off J Lo tell me, while I'm in uniform, that Atlanta's a black city and that my day was coming.
These people screaming for revolution and suddenly arming themselves want to kill you.
And they will if given the chance.
You can want a revolution all day long, but when you are a minority of a minority, it isn't going to end well for you.
All these loud mouths can do is spread pain and mental anguish, on their path to defeat. But it will be blacks that suffer the most.
But it is just sad to watch the success that dead KGB agents are reaping in the USA today. These brilliant evil minds went to their graves thinking they had lost, not knowing the poison was going to get the USA in the end.
I don't need to guess what everyone will do I just look around and see what everyone else is not doing. The chest thumpers are everywhere but there is no stomach among conservatives for conflict or activism. It is the nature of the history of man. If an American were willing to go out on a limb and put their money and freedom on the line like activists on the left do I would probably already know them. Me, I see the writing on the wall. I have my Nike stock. My plan is to buy a small piece of land in the mountains, retreat, and live out my remaining years in as much peace as I can. No one else is willing to stand up so I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I was wrong and my cause is already lost. I have no desire to be an American Hiroo Onada.
Why wait? Sell off your shit now so won't dare be in violation of Der Fuhrer's edict at some future point in time.
I certainly hope you've been around enough to know that it isn't the chest thumpers the authoritahs need to be leery of. I have said before, and I'll say it again: I will NEVER turn in anything to anyone for any reason. That isn't chest thumping, that's a fact. Chest thumping is putting a rifle by every window and screaming at the SWAT team "Molon Labe motherfvckers! Come and get 'em!" Those problems are usually self-correcting. It's the ones who won't turn anything in, and aren't stupid enough to have something to find if/when they come looking. The one's who go "dark" once such a bill has passed and been signed into law by Der Fuhrer. They won't be saying anything on M4C or BARFCOM. Yet the authoritahs will have egg on their face when a tiny fraction of the stuff they know is out there ever gets turned in. You might disarm yourself, but millions won't. I'll guaran-freaking-tee it.
Nightvisionary
08-02-20, 15:19
Why wait? Sell off your shit now so won't dare be in violation of Der Fuhrer's edict at some future point in time.
I certainly hope you've been around enough to know that it isn't the chest thumpers the authoritahs need to be leery of. I have said before, and I'll say it again: I will NEVER turn in anything to anyone for any reason. That isn't chest thumping, that's a fact. Chest thumping is putting a rifle by every window and screaming at the SWAT team "Molon Labe motherfvckers! Come and get 'em!" Those problems are usually self-correcting. It's the ones who won't turn anything in, and aren't stupid enough to have something to find if/when they come looking. The one's who go "dark" once such a bill has passed and been signed into law by Der Fuhrer. They won't be saying anything on M4C or BARFCOM. Yet the authoritahs will have egg on their face when a tiny fraction of the stuff they know is out there ever gets turned in. You might disarm yourself, but millions won't. I'll guaran-freaking-tee it.
Like most people on our side including myself at one time, I don't think you understand how the mechanisms that have been put in place over the last 5 decades will work when they come into play. You may very well choose not to follow whatever laws get passed but anything you have stockpiled will be as useful as the 840 horsepower of a Dodge Demon on an LA freeway. You simply will have no ability to use it. If your indoctrinated neighbors or family don't turn you in or red flag you or government intel agents don't comb through your years of social media to develop pc for a warrant to search your house while you are at work or away they will rust in your attic until you die. Then your liberal indoctrinated grandchildren will turn them in. If you truly want to understand what is happening now and what will likely happen in the near future I suggest you start here:
https://youtu.be/ca7mGSvRdoM
I look for the stock market to take a huge 40-50% plunge within a year if the extreme Democrat's Party takes control. Most all tactical ammo caliber prices will go through the roof, if you can even find any. Most people will not have to worry about wearing out their AR barrel, bolt or mags. I am extreme confident Trump will be re-elected to another term. After Trump who knows, as nobody really knows for sure.
Like most people on our side including myself at one time, I don't think you understand how the mechanisms that have been put in place over the last 5 decades will work when they come into play. You may very well choose not to follow whatever laws get passed but anything you have stockpiled will be as useful as the 840 horsepower of a Dodge Demon on an LA freeway. You simply will have no ability to use it. If your indoctrinated neighbors or family don't turn you in or red flag you or government intel agents don't comb through your years of social media to develop pc for a warrant to search your house while you are at work or away they will rust in your attic until you die. Then your liberal indoctrinated grandchildren will turn them in. If you truly want to understand what is happening now and what will likely happen in the near future I suggest you start here:
https://youtu.be/ca7mGSvRdoM
None of that is guaranteed. What IS guaranteed, if you give up your guns you will die in the camps or next to a shallow grave.
How is it guaranteed?
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
How is it guaranteed?
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Ask the last centurys 80 million Enemies of The People.
Like flying aids
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Like flying aids
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Some people dont believe the Holocaust happened either, they're wrong too...
Some people dont believe the Holocaust happened either, they're wrong too...No I believe it. Had relatives in it. Also know communism and it isn't a bunch of college retards. It's a little more complicated than that
Like most people on our side including myself at one time, I don't think you understand how the mechanisms that have been put in place over the last 5 decades will work when they come into play. You may very well choose not to follow whatever laws get passed but anything you have stockpiled will be as useful as the 840 horsepower of a Dodge Demon on an LA freeway. You simply will have no ability to use it. If your indoctrinated neighbors or family don't turn you in or red flag you or government intel agents don't comb through your years of social media to develop pc for a warrant to search your house while you are at work or away they will rust in your attic until you die. Then your liberal indoctrinated grandchildren will turn them in. If you truly want to understand what is happening now and what will likely happen in the near future I suggest you start here:
https://youtu.be/ca7mGSvRdoM Yes, saw Part I of that video yesterday.
I live out in the sticks on 22 acres. All but about 5 or 6 of those acres are woods. Guess what you can hear all around on a nice weekend afternoon? That's right, gunfire. Hell, the more that join in seems to energize even more to do so. I don't see that stopping because of some asinine law that might get passed. People out here DGAF. You also have a rural county with it's rural prosecutor and rural LEO's (sheriffs this far out). No one is going to give a damn!. Those that live in suburbs, where you already can't shoot on a whim, or God forbid the cities, might be SOL. Things can be relatively easy to access but yet not be readily found when you reside in the boonies. Stuff can disappear rather easily and quickly.
You do you, I'll do me. I'll take a pass on investing in some "safe" non-gun related stuff in the hopes I will be permitted to hide away and die as an unarmed hermit. No thanks. Oh, and I don't have ungrateful, entitled kids who might sell me up the river. Childless I am and wouldn't change a thing. Neighbors? Hell, they all shoot too. Who's gonna narc on who exactly?
HardToHandle
08-02-20, 21:14
Went to a local gun show today - 100 tables or so. Beyond a proliferation of mullets and almost nobody wearing a mask, I saw lots of black rifles and AR magazines at reasonable. Ammo was a little thin and certainly much pricey Than eight months ago.
One high volume gun show dealer really impressed me. His gun prices were at or just above pre-pandemic. His used inventory was a little tighter and he had less black rifle stock, but you could buy decent SIG ARs at a bit over cost. He had buyers stacked four deep filling out paperwork, mostly on pistols. The higher priced vendors weren’t busy, but the guy with good prices was selling.
I want cheap ammo back on the shelves, but my neck of the woods isn’t doom and gloom.
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-02-20, 23:27
Things are absolutely terrible in Middle GA. All the major gun stores have been picked over hard. Stores are having to rearrange to obscure all the empty shelves. Ammo is basically gone at Academy (some is there if you get there on Friday, early). Place's like Clyde's are out of 9mm, 762x39 and it isn't getting better. Barrows has nothing but super high end guns like HK 762, Scars, etc. No regular ARs. It is 5x worse than I have seen in the last 30 years.Way worse than Obama. I presume once people realize Trump has a serious chance of losing it will be worse but I really can't see how.
Grand58742
08-03-20, 03:41
Things are absolutely terrible in Middle GA. All the major gun stores have been picked over hard. Stores are having to rearrange to obscure all the empty shelves. Ammo is basically gone at Academy (some is there if you get there on Friday, early). Place's like Clyde's are out of 9mm, 762x39 and it isn't getting better. Barrows has nothing but super high end guns like HK 762, Scars, etc. No regular ARs. It is 5x worse than I have seen in the last 30 years.Way worse than Obama. I presume once people realize Trump has a serious chance of losing it will be worse but I really can't see how.
It's the perfect storm.
Chance of a Biden Presidency and the idiots he surrounds himself with calling for gun control has already started.
The rioting and looting permeating every minute of the news and growing bolder every day.
Leftover Corona-angst.
A lot of things have lead to the situation we're in. Every election year tends to have its shortages. But combining it with everything else that's going on means its increased ten fold.
No I believe it. Had relatives in it. Also know communism and it isn't a bunch of college retards. It's a little more complicated than that
Really? Who were the Red Guards?
Adrenaline_6
08-03-20, 07:32
No I believe it. Had relatives in it. Also know communism and it isn't a bunch of college retards. It's a little more complicated than that
The college retards aren't communists, just the idiot tools to get us there.
The college retards aren't communists, just the idiot tools to get us there.
Indeed, USEFUL IDIOTS are always part of the plan. The young frequently make good idiots for a host of reasons....
Indeed, USEFUL IDIOTS are always part of the plan. The young frequently make good idiots for a host of reasons....
Which is why Aristotle said, "Politics is not a fit study for the young, for they lack experience in life...."
Grand58742
08-03-20, 10:08
Related:
It's very sad people are afraid to claim they are gun owners. Though it's nice to see people starting to realize the intent of the Second Amendment.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/first-time-gun-owners-safety-protection
For years, Carlene and Jake went back-and-forth about purchasing a firearm.
The young parents from California – who did not feel comfortable using their last names or more specific identifiers when they spoke with Fox News on Sunday out of concern about possible backlash – said with the country “a little bit on edge right now,” it was the right time to make the purchase.
The couple is among the hoard of 2.5 million first-time gun buyers who have exercised their Second Amendment right to own weapons. They told Fox News they have received their licenses and are now waiting for their firearms to arrive because they’re on back order.
“With everything going on in both the world and politics and everything, you can't really be too safe,” Carlene said. “We have a family, a young family, so I think that's always on the back of my mind, as well. I think with a lot of the riots and such like that, it's important to – if your First Amendment isn't protected, I guess you always have the second, right?"
Related:
It's very sad people are afraid to claim they are gun owners. Though it's nice to see people starting to realize the intent of the Second Amendment.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/first-time-gun-owners-safety-protection
Bet they still vote “D” in November.
I would say a minimum of 50 -100 rds weekly or biweekly. Shooting a box of ammo every 3 months just isn't enough. Also, hitting a paper target, while stationary, at your local indoor range from 5-20 yds isn't enough either. JMHO.
I get to move around when I shoot. Draw and shoot, etc.
Performance degrades the moment you leave the range. We all have to draw the line somewhere between "shoot as much as I want" to "The ammo I have now may have to last me the rest of my life, so how much should I shoot a year?"
Keep in mind 200 rounds a year is two to four times what the average cop gets. Also, the less we shoot, the more important each bullet fired in training becomes. So a good plan is necessary.
Local mega gunstore (LMGS) got 75 thousand rounds of brass blazer 9mm in. Sold out in 3 days with a 2 box limit per customer at $16 per box. Been like this for a while. They normally have multiple pallets of brass Blazer out.
That store is in an old grocery store and has 7 grocery style checkout lines for guns (belt and all). Over the last month they are typically 5-6 people deep across all seven lines. Which essentially means a 9mm/40 handgun, self defense shotgun, or an AR is walking out the door every 4-5 minutes.
The demographic is hugely different. It is 15-20 minutes drive outside of metro Atlanta. On a normal day you might see some minorities in the store and they are welcome.
Now probably 50% of the traffic is minority and it's not mixed minorities. it's clearly downtown Atlanta or similar.
I understand the families or the dad you see who's buying some protection because the police are not responding in their zone. Totally understand their need / desire, I would do the same, and I hope they as gun owners become supportive of our rights.
But for every understandable situation like that there are groups of 5-10 males 18 to 25 wearing the t-shirts you would expect them to. Mostly BLM or similar.
I'm not thinking anyone should be discouraged. But I'm more scratching my head what's driving this change, is it an organized push to arm individuals for protest, or what?
These are the same people who is cleaning out the ammunition. I've watched them in groups buy multiple boxes of $50 Hornady critical defense 9 mm from a pallet. Probably because it was the only thing available in boxes of 50.
This is not fuds buying ammunition to flip at gun shows. This is not long time shooters who should have had stocks and are worried about the presidential election. This is a sea change, entirely new demographic who is angry.
I see them at the public shooting ranges in large numbers. I normally try very hard when I see a new shooter of any type to be friendly and help if needed at ranges. This new demographic does not want any of that, some look at you distrustful and sometimes won't even speak to you. (Then again some are nice enough)
For pistols a lot of times I shoot at governors gun club (original smaller location) which is very close to me, clean and well-run. They have 20 lanes. At any given time you would normally see 90% Caucasian shooters. Mostly experienced. For the last month, it's now only 25 to 30% Caucasian. With the majority clearly being first-time shooters. I do see some females of color buying self defense firearms and getting a lesson from the store. Entirely understand and respect that. Then I also see young males with an uncased AR and pockets full of magazines, droopy pants and all. (when your belt line is below your butt and pockets are full of loaded magazines how do you keep the whole mess from falling down? I have a hard time keeping a holstered pistol up!) Sat across from one for 1 for an hour wait recently. Didn't see any hugely unsafe handling, but clearly had the NFAC vibe. Uncased AR made me nervous.
So I'm kind of scratching my head. This is not a color thing, metro atl counties are 25-46% african american... I know African American hunters and sport shooters. And some they just want to defend their families.
Instead, it's the nature of the new shooters, appears to be anger thing. Urban Atlanta people in black slogan t-shirts driving a county away to shop and another county further to shoot. Is this an organized effort? Grass roots word of mouth? I do not believe it's random.
I think many of them are scared based on media and social media junk. There are many non-Caucasians and liberals (the ones who don't realize they are commie tools) who have been fooled into thinking a Conservative Right / Christians / KKK / Fascists are going to make abortions illegal, ban gay marriages, cut their student / medical benefits, etc. That's how effective the communist propaganda has been. This type of "tools for commies" really do think they are on the defensive and are arming to be "ready".
It's way to late to change the long education (indoctrination) these people got.
We can only try to save the "savable" communities and hope to keep these existing through the eventual balkanization.
Ammo prices are nutty, might be even worse than Sandy Hook levels.
Finally achieved the ability of shooting on my own property, and now I don't want to expend the ammo lol.
I get to move around when I shoot. Draw and shoot, etc.
Performance degrades the moment you leave the range. We all have to draw the line somewhere between "shoot as much as I want" to "The ammo I have now may have to last me the rest of my life, so how much should I shoot a year?"
Keep in mind 200 rounds a year is two to four times what the average cop gets. Also, the less we shoot, the more important each bullet fired in training becomes. So a good plan is necessary.
Is this a typo? Dont tell me.
PB
Is this a typo? Dont tell me.
PB
My best friend's BIL is a cop in NJ. In speaking with him he openly admitted that he only shoots the qualifying course of fire, which is 60 rounds, twice a year. No range time, not practice, no training since the academy. So yeah, Ron3 isn't that far off.
"200 rounds a year is two to four times what the average cop gets"
I am not sure how true that is, but there are a lot of small agencies that are cash strapped.
When I was a deputy, we got 50 rounds a month. Since 95% of the deputies didn't take it, the range officer would let me come down and shoot as much as I wanted.
Then in Israel, ammo was unlimited.
"200 rounds a year is two to four times what the average cop gets"
I am not sure how true that is, but there are a lot of small agencies that are cash strapped.
When I was a deputy, we got 50 rounds a month. Since 95% of the deputies didn't take it, the range officer would let me come down and shoot as much as I wanted.
Then in Israel, the ammo was unlimited.
This is what I heard too. Local friend / copper said the exact same thing. But they have plenty of money and even have to shoot frangible ammo which costs double. Can't remember why. Legal probably. Said it was always the same group of guys that shoot.
PB
I get to move around when I shoot. Draw and shoot, etc.
Performance degrades the moment you leave the range. We all have to draw the line somewhere between "shoot as much as I want" to "The ammo I have now may have to last me the rest of my life, so how much should I shoot a year?"
Keep in mind 200 rounds a year is two to four times what the average cop gets. Also, the less we shoot, the more important each bullet fired in training becomes. So a good plan is necessary.
My plan was based on 10 years of data- practice, classes, plinking, instructing newbs- How many rounds did I shoot? Then I set about creating a lifetime supply based on that number. I hadn't quite reached my goal when this started- but I will be very comfortable. And, I've been able to scramble and scrounge together quite a pile of ammo in the last 3 months here and there and most of it at reasonable prices all things considered. Add in reloading and I think I'm good. I have about 4 tons of Linotype in bars out behind the garage- that's a hell of alot of bullets, along with a couple of 5 gallon buckets of rimfire casings to make bullet jackets out of- Corbin is your friend.....
This is what I heard too. Local friend / copper said the exact same thing. But they have plenty of money and even have to shoot frangible ammo which costs double. Can't remember why. Legal probably. Said it was always the same group of guys that shoot.
PB
In Texas, prison guards used to shoot 18 rounds ( 3 Cylinders of 6 ) .38's per year and then 5 rounds of buckshot- none of the later had to hit a damn thing other than the berm. Think about that, they are SURROUNDED by CONVICTED CRIMINALS EVERY DAY, ALL DAY and their skills are minimal at best.....
My experience with LE; the average officer views their firearm as something they have to carry, like a ball point pen.
BoringGuy45
08-03-20, 19:59
My experience with LE; the average officer views their firearm as something they have to carry, like a ball point pen.
Very true. At my old department, most of the officers not give two shits about any of the gear they carried, gun included. In fact, anyone who did have any interest in guns or gear of any kind was considered weird to the point of where they didn't want to work with you; you would be "that guy".
Very true. At my old department, most of the officers not give two shits about any of the gear they carried, gun included. In fact, anyone who did have any interest in guns or gear of any kind was considered weird to the point of where they didn't want to work with you; you would be "that guy".
"Tackleberry"
There is "that guy" and there is that guy. Fortunately for us there are enough guys interested, and competent, that there is no stigma.
We are working on this, we got a little side tracked due to having to meet a dead line on a grant program.
With Corona, we have cut the only place we are willing to cut and that is administration, we let everyone go but our admin director.
Between Corona and the state of the world in general, an exotic beach, great cigar and beverage with a few friends is sounding very good.
If this (ammo) happens I will certainly pony up for some, and thank you for the chance; if not, thank you for looking into it, and enjoy the beach! There is no such thing here! 110 in the shade today
BoringGuy45
08-03-20, 22:36
"Tackleberry"
There is "that guy" and there is that guy. Fortunately for us there are enough guys interested, and competent, that there is no stigma.
Anyone at my department who knew anything beyond the fact that we were issued Glock 22s and that they shot .40 S&W was considered a Tackleberry. At my old PD, the only interests you were "allowed" to have were 1) Doing the job 2) Working overtime 3) Investigating things while off the clock 4) Working out. If you liked anything else, be it guns, sports (other than fitness), music, movies, TV, art, books, games...you were a weirdo. Fun was for kids only.
Anyone at my department who knew anything beyond the fact that we were issued Glock 22s and that they shot .40 S&W was considered a Tackleberry. At my old PD, the only interests you were "allowed" to have were 1) Doing the job 2) Working overtime 3) Investigating things while off the clock 4) Working out. If you liked anything else, be it guns, sports (other than fitness), music, movies, TV, art, books, games...you were a weirdo. Fun was for kids only.
Wow. Sorry to hear that brother... if I remember correctly, you did not enjoy your time there very much.
Straight Shooter
08-04-20, 08:44
I did a couple hour search this morning, thru everyone I could find selling online ammo.
Looking at prices & availability. The "combat calibers" as I call them of course are Out of Stock...but found a little 5.56 at .68 & up per ound of XM 193. Even crappy M855 is gone now.
9mm is kaput- found a little HST & GD for $40-$49 per 50. Couldnt find ANY ball/range ammo.
12 gauge Buck is nearly extinct..but around $8-$9 per box of 5.
So...I delved into other caliber I love & have used in my lifetime...the .243,which I love, 30-30, 25-06, 357/38/44 Mag.
Found 0 30-30 & was shocked at that.
.243 mostly gone, but up over a $1 + a round.
25-06 still there.
357/38/44M gone. Found none. .380 POOF, again.
I know this aint BREAKING NEWS or anything, but maybe I saved someone the waste of time looking, its just an update & Ive no doubt others may find a plethora that I somehow missed.
Your best bet is to talk to your LGS and find out what day they take deliveries. One I frequent has most pistol calibers on the shelf for a few days after their truck comes in. Haven’t seen any .223/5.56 for a while, though.
I have found it useful to stop by agricultural supply store. Locally, these is still a bit of reloading components. I scored an 8# jug this week.
My local gun store is fully stocked, in fact a offered the local sheriff use of a few tanks if rioters got out of hand.
Google dragonmans images.
I did a couple hour search this morning, thru everyone I could find selling online ammo.
Looking at prices & availability. The "combat calibers" as I call them of course are Out of Stock...but found a little 5.56 at .68 & up per ound of XM 193. Even crappy M855 is gone now.
9mm is kaput- found a little HST & GD for $40-$49 per 50. Couldnt find ANY ball/range ammo.
12 gauge Buck is nearly extinct..but around $8-$9 per box of 5.
So...I delved into other caliber I love & have used in my lifetime...the .243,which I love, 30-30, 25-06, 357/38/44 Mag.
Found 0 30-30 & was shocked at that.
.243 mostly gone, but up over a $1 + a round.
25-06 still there.
357/38/44M gone. Found none. .380 POOF, again.
I know this aint BREAKING NEWS or anything, but maybe I saved someone the waste of time looking, its just an update & Ive no doubt others may find a plethora that I somehow missed.
6.5 CM has been plentiful just a little expensive. I've searched too, and just decided to stop shooting anything not 6.5 until hopefully the panic slows.
I got into guns right before Sandy Hook and told myself I'll never be caught with only 100 rounds again. Now I have only 3-4k each of 5.56 and 9mm and feel like I don't have enough to practice.
BoringGuy45
08-04-20, 10:34
Wow. Sorry to hear that brother... if I remember correctly, you did not enjoy your time there very much.
I did not. Unfortunately the “take the first job offered” strategy of getting into LE backfired. That department, to their credit, has a reputation for being pretty competent, but also quite unpleasant. Nobody liked each other there, and everyone was constantly passive aggressive towards one another. One of my FTOs even said “don’t try to make friends here. Nobody here hangs out off the job or even talks to anyone else.” Even with the good pay, cops from other departments almost NEVER lateral there. I was happier working as a CO at the county jail, which is saying a lot because that job was also horrifically bad. But I at least worked with guys who actually had interests in things like guns, sports, movies, etc.
On the one hand I regret shooting off thousands and thousands of rounds of ammo (mostly 5.56/.223 and 9mm) over the last three years so that I’m left with less in reserve than I’d like. On the other hand my shooting ability improved quite a bit during that time period.
So maybe having less ammo, but being a better shooter it is preferable to having more ammo and being a terrible shooter?
That’s how I’m consoling myself anyway.....
I got into guns right before Sandy Hook and told myself I'll never be caught with only 100 rounds again. Now I have only 3-4k each of 5.56 and 9mm and feel like I don't have enough to practice.
After Sandy Hook I said the same thing. I have about 10K of various .223/5.56 and maybe closer to 12K of 9mm, maybe 6 or 7K of 7.62x39 and I don't think that's enough. I don't think any amount of ammo is "enough" LOL
Cheaper Than Dirt just sent out an email indicating they've got ammo, mags in stock
Tula 223 20 rounds $11.79
S&B 5.56 20 rounds $24.89
I'm a fan of capitalism but this is ridiculous.
Bottom line, rarely do we feel we have enough. But if you have a few thousand of your known calibers your GTG IMHO. If your in a firefight that last 500 rounds your proably fcked anyway. Probably less. But we all hord like crazy, its just part of the game I guesss. I have way more than I need and I'm buying bullets and powder like there aint no manana.
PB
IKnowNotEverything
08-04-20, 12:22
I’m looking to buy a Dillon press. At least I can find .308 to feed my totally-not-panic-bought LMT.
Before a few months ago I couldn’t afford to hoard ammo in bulk. Now that I got a raise I can’t afford to hoard ammo in bulk lol.
Cheaper Than Dirt just sent out an email indicating they've got ammo, mags in stock
Tula 223 20 rounds $11.79
S&B 5.56 20 rounds $24.89
I'm a fan of capitalism but this is ridiculous.
It's part for the course with CTD. They lost a lot of customers after Sandy Hook. I wouldn't pee on their building if it was on fire.
Andy
It's part for the course with CTD. They lost a lot of customers after Sandy Hook. I wouldn't pee on their building if it was on fire.
Andy
You mean when they posted cased of 5.56 for $999, rather than the regular price of $319 and had the audacity to include the "You save -$680" LOL Their $60Pmags and $70 50rd of 9mm?
Diamondback
08-04-20, 14:24
CTD = Cancel Those Douches
You mean when they posted cased of 5.56 for $999, rather than the regular price of $319 and had the audacity to include the "You save -$680" LOL Their $60Pmags and $70 50rd of 9mm?
Yep ! That CTD
I managed another hit and run today. Fair prices too.
http://i.imgur.com/dqcvSbk.jpg (https://imgur.com/dqcvSbk)
I'll be honest here... I bought more than I "need" and seeing the crazy prices ammo is going for I'm really tempted to sell a bunch on gunbroker. I hate being a gouger, but hell, I could make enough off the profits to almost pay for a new truck... that's hard to ignore...
If you have enough to shoot a desired minimum amount from that type of gun for the rest of your life you "have enough".
So if your 50 and imagine you could be shooting until your 80 100 rounds of 9mm a week average you'll want 150K rounds. 100 rounds a month 36K rounds. 200 rounds a year 6K rounds.
Do the math and get what you think you'll need in those calibers. And do it this past January. :sad: Store it well. Or do it if the market ever recovers and it becomes available and is still legal to buy.
If you have a spouse, kids, etc, you may need more.
ColtSeavers
08-05-20, 01:27
If you have enough to shoot a desired minimum amount from that type of gun for the rest of your life you "have enough".
So if your 50 and imagine you could be shooting until your 80 100 rounds of 9mm a week average you'll want 150K rounds. 100 rounds a month 36K rounds. 200 rounds a year 6K rounds.
Do the math and get what you think you'll need in those calibers. And do it this past January. :sad: Store it well. Or do it if the market ever recovers and it becomes available and is still legal to buy.
If you have a spouse, kids, etc, you may need more.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Don_Knotts_Barney_and_the_bullet_Andy_Griffith_Show.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-05-20, 08:36
I'll be honest here... I bought more than I "need" and seeing the crazy prices ammo is going for I'm really tempted to sell a bunch on gunbroker. I hate being a gouger, but hell, I could make enough off the profits to almost pay for a new truck... that's hard to ignore...
I’ve got a couple of PSA lowers that I got as part of a gun and lower special deal. I built them up and they are just sitting in my safe. Really want to start going with LMT ambidextrous lowers. I don’t even have plans for these right now. Might part with these two.
We are signing some deals I hope this week, which will give us access to ammo.
Don't ask me questions, that I can't answer until the deals are signed.
But I have multiple people working on it.
I bought more than I need too, of some things...Im practically swimming in AR and AK mags. I think I still have like four stripped lowers that have never been used. Plus one of those crappy polymer 80% lowers with the jig that I know *I’ll* never use, but during a panic, someone might want it. I even have an underfolder AK rifle that I might be able to sell too.
It’s just my shooting habits that has screwed me on the ammo front. I shot it off faster than I could afford to replenish it.
I mean hell, yesterday I ended up firing 100 rounds of 9mm at the range instead of the 50 I had previously decided was my weekly limit. So I didn’t help my supply situation there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-05-20, 16:21
Are there any places that are taking back orders at reasonable prices? Mainly 9mm and 55gr 556 practice ammo? If I can place some orders and know that in Sept/Oct I get some more, that would make me a bit more comfortable doing more comps or taking a class.
I really don't want to get into reloading. Are primers/bullets/powder hard to come by? I haven't seen people complaining about primers like they have in the past. If I'm cutting back on shooting , I have free time for loading.
I really don't want to get into reloading. Are primers/bullets/powder hard to come by? I haven't seen people complaining about primers like they have in the past. If I'm cutting back on shooting , I have free time for loading.
Components have effectively dried up, so yes.
Primers/bullets most difficult to source at this time.
We are signing some deals I hope this week, which will give us access to ammo.
Don't ask me questions, that I can't answer until the deals are signed.
But I have multiple people working on it.
How about a group buy for M4C members? :)
How about a group buy for M4C members? :)
I am not ruling out anything, at this point in time. My partner is the one working on this, as I am tied up with other things right now. So when he has deals ready to sign I will know what we have.
In for interest on a possible group buy.
In for interest on a group buy as well.
Diamondback
08-05-20, 20:27
I'm open to the idea of a group buy... depends on the numbers/details and if I can arrange a drop-site. (I don't see the property manager being cool with me shipping ammo here, and my aunt has trouble hauling her own groceries into the house never mind a case of ammo, so Plan C is see if my gunsmith will let me drop-ship c/o him.)
The_War_Wagon
08-05-20, 21:32
I've got another 1,500rds of M855 coming tomorrow. I'd rather have M193, but anything in brass-cased 5.56 is nice to have. I'm topping off a fifth 20mm can of 5.56, sooo... :cool:
If some sort of group buy materializes for IMI 5.56 and/or 9mm (Thanks Yoni for looking into the feasibility of it) I’m sure I’ll be in for some. Other expenses are limiting my financial “maneuverability” a bit right now, but I figure if I buy ammo now I won’t have to try and get it later when the real Dark Times come.
My 5.56 preference, as far as FMJ goes, is M193 as opposed to M855. But I wouldn’t turn either down at this point. 77gr Razor Core might be welcome too. Although my main focus is just building up my stock of 5.57 ball at this point.
I really don’t want my 5.56 situation to deteriorate to the point where I have to fall back to 7.62x39 because, you know, ew...
I'd definitely be in for a group buy as well. Thanks for looking into it Yoni.
Ill glom onto the group buy as well. Why not?
john armond
08-06-20, 08:40
I'm in too!
Don't Tread On Me
08-06-20, 08:50
I'm in for the group buy.
Wow if the deal is close to $500k we may get a sniff of some ammo. Orders upwards of $150k are just getting sitting in the back of the line right now
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IKnowNotEverything
08-06-20, 09:23
I would also be interested in a group buy. I pity the poor soul that has to organize the shipping.
Nightvisionary
08-06-20, 09:28
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
Well after starting this thread I'd be remiss if I didn't get in on the group buy. I'm actually stocked but I'd buy more of almost anything.
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
Probably thought they had better things to do with their money. I mean, if you're just going to hand it all over when Biden outlaws it all....What's the point?
sundance435
08-06-20, 09:56
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
Probably money. I don't mean that many here couldn't afford it, but it's one of those things that gets kicked down the priority list in the game of life, especially with a family. It's a lot easier to forget about $300 when you think of it as a recurring expense. I just wish I'd bought more at $250, but, c'est la vie. I probably have "enough", but there's some innate desire to have more when there's the whiff of blood in the streets.
Plus, unless your primary home or a second home is your bug-out plan, there's only so much ammo you can accumulate before it becomes a pointless burden.
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
Ammo - because I was shooting it. I was going through literally thousands of rounds of 5.56/.223 per year, and my 9mm expenditure really ramped up in the last year as well. It’s really the lack of range ammo that I’m most bothered by.
My financial situation took a big hit in 2016 as well which really affected my ability to replace ammo in bulk as quickly as I was shooting it. But I was on a mission to improve, and it’s one of my only actual hobbies, so I just kept shooting.
Guns - getting a G45 in trade back in January convinced me that I actually like Glocks after all, enough so that I want a second G45, or a Gen 5 G17 might be acceptable too. I’m assuming I’ll get a shot at one between now and November, just a matter of catching one in stock.
I do kind of wish I had gotten a PCC of some sort. Probably a CZ Scorpion but that would have been another type of mag to stock up on, another gun requiring 9mm, so perhaps it’s for the best.
Nightvisionary
08-06-20, 10:51
Probably thought they had better things to do with their money. I mean, if you're just going to hand it all over when Biden outlaws it all....What's the point?
Which begs the question. Why become a collector now?
If this group buy goes forward, I’m in.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-06-20, 11:20
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
It isn't like I am going to run out of ammo anytime soon, I just don't want to keep shooting and get to a level that I'm not comfortable with. I use, I buy. I can't buy, it isn't like I don't have ammo, but the amount of practice ammo is going down. What is the level of ammo that people think is 'prudent'? 1000 rounds, 10,000? 50,000?
I have plenty of face shooting ammo for my rifle. It's practice ammo- and really just the ability to refill. Like I said, if I can preoder for later this year, heck 3-6 months out, I'd feel a lot better.
Reloading would cut into other time and shooting time, plus I'm a gear/tech whore and I know I'd go overboard on it. I used to travel 50% of the time, not anymore, and maybe not as much when it comes back. So maybe I have time now.
I guess you could say why 'we' didn't 'plan' ahead, I'd say, where have all these people been that are panicing now? Pandemics and race riots- been there, seen that. What is new? ;)
ChattanoogaPhil
08-06-20, 11:25
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
There's lot of reasons, but the current overriding reason is nationwide riots and violence. When people watch TV and see police precincts abandoned and ablaze, squad cars burning in the streets, sections of cities abandoned by law enforcement and taken over by thugs... that's a real eye-opener for the need for personal protection or to add to what ya already got.
Related:
It's very sad people are afraid to claim they are gun owners. Though it's nice to see people starting to realize the intent of the Second Amendment.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/first-time-gun-owners-safety-protection
Nah, they don't really give a damn. IF this calms down at all after the election, they'll sell it at a loss because they "don't need it anymore, eww, icky" and they'll be right back to protesting for gun control and arguing with other gun owners about "reasonable restrictions." F*** em. It's just temporary fear motivation.
Remember, it's highly likely that ALL these types of people have known at least one "crazy" friend or relative who's a "gun nut" for well over the last 5+ years...
Cheaper Than Dirt just sent out an email indicating they've got ammo, mags in stock
Tula 223 20 rounds $11.79
S&B 5.56 20 rounds $24.89
I'm a fan of capitalism but this is ridiculous.
I can't wait till they bless us with $99 Pmags. :laugh:
I haven't bought anything from them since their 2013 shenanigans and never will, unless they actually ever had pricing that lived up to their name.
Bottom line, rarely do we feel we have enough. But if you have a few thousand of your known calibers your GTG IMHO. If your in a firefight that last 500 rounds your proably fcked anyway. Probably less. But we all hord like crazy, its just part of the game I guesss. I have way more than I need and I'm buying bullets and powder like there aint no manana.
PB
Depends on what sort of fight it is...
You gotta remember, as the number of guns you can bring to bear goes down, and the number of opponents goes up, the rate of fire must rise to compensate, therefore ammo expenditure per person rises accordingly...
Of course, sure, your survival percentage also drops accordingly, but regardless, you could burn through your first few mags real quick just 'getting off the X' in the right (and IMHO, increasingly not that unlikely) situation.
That being said, I also read somewhere a few years back that the average expenditure of ammunition for your average GWOT soldier in a low-intensity-conflict area was about 2k rounds per year. So... take that with the grain of sand implied, and scale accordingly.
Which begs the question. Why become a collector now?
Sounds like a question for the 2.5 mil newbies who just rushed out to buy guns in the last few months, not the forumites here...
bulldozer3
08-06-20, 11:48
In for 9mm and 5.56
Im good on everything else
Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
ColtSeavers
08-07-20, 10:52
Probably should officially throw my hat in too for some nicely priced good manufacture ammo.
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
Kids. We had our first in 2007 and 2nd in 2009. While they were both in fulltime daycare, that bill was within a few dollars of our monthly mortgage payment, and then there are all of the other expenses. They are old enough that daycare is just recently a thing of the past, and I have been ramping up purchases, but that is why I'm not sitting on the pile that I would like to be.
..and I would like to be included in the group buy.
The_War_Wagon
08-07-20, 11:29
Hey - I'm ALWAYS down for more ammo! :cool:
LOL
Yoni is probably thinking right now "Oh hell, what did I get myself into! Why did I open my mouth?"
I have a honest question I am curious about. Not rubbing it in or busting balls. For those who are scrambling to buy guns, ammo, or thinking about getting into reloading right now, what kept you from making these purchases between 2014 and 2019?
My ammo consumption increased greatly during this time frame, particularly in 5.56 and 9mm. Got a lot more mouths to feed in these calibers than pre-2014.
It's not that I don't have a stash of ammo, it's more that I can't readily replace what I consume. As for reloading supplies, I converted a lot of components into loaded ammunition and had depleted my component inventory. As with many things, work and other financial commitments got in the way of replenishing stocks of reloading components. It's not like I don't have anything, just not able to replenish.
Meanwhile, I have switched to shooting the cowboy guns, got ammo I loaded 15-20 years ago stashed away, or shoot up the rest of the Turk 8mm or Iraqi .303 Brit in the milsurp bolt guns.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-07-20, 12:19
So glad I simplified down to 9mm an 556 for most of my guns, and on most mags too.
Yoni better be full speed on the HK P7 clone project...
So glad I simplified down to 9mm an 556 for most of my guns, and on most mags too.
Yoni better be full speed on the HK P7 clone project...
As much as I like to dump on 7.62x39 and the AKs that fire it, I’m actually rather glad I’ve got both the ammo and the guns in reserve should supply issues eventually make shooting ARs (either at the range or in errr....less fun situations) unsustainable. I’ve got 5.45x39 and a couple 74s too. Plus, keeping that G23 in .40 that I hate is seeming like a smart move too now. .40 isn’t much more available than 9mm right now but at least it’s another option if that’s all I can get.
grizzlyblake
08-07-20, 13:52
It seems like most of the inflated ammo pricing is handgun ammo and FMJ rifle ammo.
I just bought another thousand Speer GD .223 for $1.00/rd online.
For reference I paid $0.80/rd in February and $0.95/rd in June.
Gallo Pazzesco
08-07-20, 14:44
So yeah, the painfully obvious, significant shortages of ammo (.22lr, 9mm, .45 acp, .223/5.56) and popular gun models are nationwide. Not surprised by that completely, but surprised how bad it is already. I don't shop a ton the last year or two because I am pretty well stocked. Was looking around this week for some .22lr and was pretty stunned at the state of things.
A few articles discussing the nationwide supply situation:
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/unprecedented-demand-on-guns-and-ammo-putting-pressure-on-supply-chain-04-08-2020
https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-wake-of-protests-gun-sales-so-high-retailers-running-out-of-guns-and-ammo-report-says
https://freebeacon.com/issues/record-setting-gun-sales-could-leave-stores-dry/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-firearms-ammunitions-sales
https://apnews.com/71efde2c4c5057bd17f790bfac62dcc3
In addition to that:
1. Two LGS that I work with in WA state say that due to COVID-19, there's been a disruption in supply of both new firearms, and ammo. In some cases because OEM factories shut down. They cannot get any of the most popular calibers, and models. For instance try to get a G19 Gen5, or a case 5.56 or 9mm any brand: forget it.
2. Beyond the local scene, I went to several of my favorite online stores for firearms and ammunition. Out of EVERYthing in the popular models and calibers, and slim pickings in calibers that I use that are less popular, such as 6.5 Grendel.
Speculation about what's driving those trends, in order of importance:
1. COVID-19 related disruptions in supply.
2. Increased buying due to social unrest.
3. Early ramp-up buying anticipating left-wing election victories resulting in further gun control legislation.
Any other factors? Is it gonna' get better within 12 months *if* Trump is re-elected, or do we expect the supply situation continues indefinitely due to the OTHER factors we're facing, items 1 and 2 above?
It's the craziest I have seen it in my lifetime ... and I'm in my 60s. I remember the post-60s just after the '68 bill passed and everyone was buying Mini-14s. I was in the 82nd through the 70s and right up until the '94 AWB. That was crazy panic buying time, especially on high cap mags. Then came the Obango years and we all know what happened then.
Right now is the craziest. I've known the owner of PSA since I was buying pulled pills and surplus 4895 from him out of his front yard shed .... and they are just about out of certain inventory. Built ARs, all of the most common ammo calibers, very low inventory on handguns. We were just over there yesterday.
Crazy times.
I will say this and take it fwiw. The number of blacks there buying firearms was notable .... a LOT of African Americans buying firearms. Some obvious white male democrat types too. Quite a few of the blacks had on MAGA gear fwiw. Others .... not so much. Just the opposite let's say, to put it in politically correct terms.
There is definitely something going-on. It was suggested to us that community organizers associated with BLM are urging blacks to buy firearms and prepare. Personally, I have zero problems with that -- but it's definitely happening, there is NO DOUBT about it.
Still, there is no ammo to be had here and we have two huge gun stores almost side by side on Fernandina Road in Columbia, SC; Sportsman's Warehouse and Palmetto State Armory's main store. Both were sold out of ammo yesterday. Both stores had lines out the door.
You know what they say about a firearm without ammo.
Oh well.
I’m in on a group buy.
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IKnowNotEverything
08-07-20, 17:23
I bought a pair of lowers for future builds, and a pair to gift. My local range is now charging $20 per lower rather than just a one-time transfer fee as they have in the past.
This sucks.
In on the group buy for 556 and maybe 9mm
Belmont31R
08-07-20, 18:18
I bought a pair of lowers for future builds, and a pair to gift. My local range is now charging $20 per lower rather than just a one-time transfer fee as they have in the past.
This sucks.
Find another FFL. They only need to charge one fee per 4473 because they can list multiple firearms per form.
FFL's playing BS games with transfers are 100% assholes. Its one of the easiest things they can do to make good money and there's zero reason to do anything other than make it an easy process for both them and the buyer. I've done a few transfers this year with the place I use and I get a call within 2 hours of delivery that my firearm is ready to be picked up. Literally takes a couple of minutes to log into their bound book, and a couple of minutes to input my 4473 data into their online check system. Say 10 minutes total and $25. Thats $125/hr rate for something that is very easy.
The_War_Wagon
08-07-20, 18:22
So glad I simplified down to 9mm an 556 for most of my guns, and on most mags too.
I did the same thing after 9/11 - .45 1911's, and 5.56 AR's.
I do keep a PTR91 in .308. And a 12 gauge shotgun. And some .22's (one pistol, 2 rifles).
Gallo Pazzesco
08-07-20, 20:34
Find another FFL. They only need to charge one fee per 4473 because they can list multiple firearms per form.
FFL's playing BS games with transfers are 100% assholes. Its one of the easiest things they can do to make good money and there's zero reason to do anything other than make it an easy process for both them and the buyer. I've done a few transfers this year with the place I use and I get a call within 2 hours of delivery that my firearm is ready to be picked up. Literally takes a couple of minutes to log into their bound book, and a couple of minutes to input my 4473 data into their online check system. Say 10 minutes total and $25. Thats $125/hr rate for something that is very easy.
True, and I do not totally disagree, but they might make that once a week or twice a week maybe. It's not like they are making it hourly.
There are better ways to handle multiple transfers at a time imho, but I'm thinking more along the lines of bulk discounts than you maybe?
My guy does them for $10 per serial number over two fwiw. And that is worth something to me. He has a lot of headaches to deal with not the least of which is the ATF once a year or so. Whereas I have zero worries about them.
Belmont31R
08-07-20, 21:37
True, and I do not totally disagree, but they might make that once a week or twice a week maybe. It's not like they are making it hourly.
There are better ways to handle multiple transfers at a time imho, but I'm thinking more along the lines of bulk discounts than you maybe?
My guy does them for $10 per serial number over two fwiw. And that is worth something to me. He has a lot of headaches to deal with not the least of which is the ATF once a year or so. Whereas I have zero worries about them.
A busy FFL can do a lot transfers a week. Charging reasonable fees and not playing games with logging in guns is enough to create a loyal clientele. People who make excuses for shit transfer practices will get ZERO sympathy from me.
Speaking of the ATF the Obunga ATF went to border state dealers and photocopied their books then went and harassed gun owners like me. I've talked about it before but they showed up at my house with copies of forms I'd filled out, and as I was talking to them seeing pictures of relatives of mine in their folder like a mug shot of my BIL who got 'arrested' for an expired license out of TX when he was a Marine, and was being medically retired. He drove while still recovering but with everything going on didn't even think about the exp date on his DL.
I have to think the two agents who showed up at my door probably could have come up with something better that day if allowed to but Obunga had to save face after the gun running he oversaw. Still doesn't have anything to do with FFL's being stupid about transfers.
The 22 lr shortage in the obummer years really stung me. I was doing an inventory last week and stopped at 10,000 rounds of rimfire. I'm still buying bricks at the LGS though, once bitten twice shy. I shoot too much 5.56 to have much of a stockpile, but I have plenty of cases, primers, projectiles, and powder, so no worries. I dunno what I should really have, ammo wise. I have at least a basic load of OTM or Bonded SP 5.56 for myself and my family members and enough 9mm for everyone to have 3 loaded mags of GDHP with plenty to spare. Throw in a mix of 12 and 20 gauge buckshot and slugs, plus some 30-06 and I am pretty confident we can weather any storm.
I still want more ammo though, and hope Yoni and I can do a little business.
Shelves here are swept bare of ammo in the Academy Sports and awfully thin for 9mm and 223/5.56 everywhere else.
Andy
ColtSeavers
08-09-20, 12:02
Damn, we're now at 60cents a round for 5.56... We were holding at 50cents a round for awhile there...
In for a group buy as well.....
Ah....It's so nice to have all those cans of M193 and M855 I bought at 29-33 cents per round. And a few thousand rounds each of 9mm, 7.62x39, 7.62 NATO too.
Sorry, I had to rub it in.
I remember when you could buy Lake City M193 in loose round barrel.
Ah....It's so nice to have all those cans of M193 and M855 I bought at 29-33 cents per round. And a few thousand rounds each of 9mm, 7.62x39, 7.62 NATO too.
Sorry, I had to rub it in.
I remember when you could buy Lake City M193 in loose round barrel.
How many rounds are in a 55gal drum?? I bought some M855 only because I gotta ping it was on sale & then the panic buying started. I watched ammoseek around the prices you mentioned in various qty's to only having the drums at around $5k in less than a week but qty was 'drum'.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-09-20, 17:48
Is anyone taking back orders on ammo? Like I've said, I want to manage my inventory and if I can plan on having more ammo coming in (and at what cost) on a known(ish) date, I can plan my ammo usage. Looking for 1-5000 rounds of 556/193 and 9mm.
In for a group buy, thanks Yoni for your efforts.
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How many rounds are in a 55gal drum?? I bought some M855 only because I gotta ping it was on sale & then the panic buying started. I watched ammoseek around the prices you mentioned in various qty's to only having the drums at around $5k in less than a week but qty was 'drum'.
I don't remember the quantity, but a barrel was around $4-5k I think. That was quite a few years ago. Wish I'd bought a couple barrels.
Instead, I just kept buying a case or two at a time and stacking what I didn't shoot. My shooting has dropped off in the last 2-3 years, so I have plenty for the potentially coming hard times.
To think; I used to shoot 300 rounds or so every weekend...
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-20, 18:29
I get the PSA fliers it seems everyday. They always have guns for sale, but as things get tight, they get a little.... odd. I look at those fliers and think about someone having to outfit themselves for the Boogaloo- and the would end up with a Beretta Italian police 92S trade in that looks like it was dropped A LOT, most of a Yugo AK, and a Trump marked Thompson 'machine gun'....
The first one listed today was aa Gen5 G19, not baad, green grip, not optimal. Already out of stock of course...
Grand58742
08-13-20, 19:13
I get the PSA fliers it seems everyday. They always have guns for sale, but as things get tight, they get a little.... odd. I look at those fliers and think about someone having to outfit themselves for the Boogaloo- and the would end up with a Beretta Italian police 92S trade in that looks like it was dropped A LOT, most of a Yugo AK, and a Trump marked Thompson 'machine gun'....
The first one listed today was aa Gen5 G19, not baad, green grip, not optimal. Already out of stock of course...
Interestingly enough, they had stripped lowers in stock. Not a horrible price of $75 for the stealth lowers.
Grand58742
08-13-20, 21:32
Well, I just got a nice surprise. Long story short, one of the guys that works for me asked the same question many of us have gotten of "I'd like to buy an AR..." He's a good guy, conservative in his thinking, money is tight (with two teenage boys, imagine that), but has saved his pennies to buy something...
Though had no idea of the current gun run.
Anyway, told him I'd put him together one and go from there. Problem was, the stripped lower I was looking at on PSA is now sold out. I knew I had one in my safe, so no harm since it's been there at least five years and I can part with it since he's one of the good guys. I check to make sure everything's good to go and to my surprise hiding behind it are two more stripped lowers apparently I picked up years ago when they were sub $50.
Maybe it's time I checked my safe a little closer...
Well, I just got a nice surprise... I check to make sure everything's good to go and to my surprise hiding behind it are two more stripped lowers apparently I picked up years ago when they were sub $50.
Maybe it's time I checked my safe a little closer...
Don't do it. Lowers are very private, and only reproduce like that with sufficient privacy :)
Had to stock up when CA killed online ordering for us.
Last year, I took my Dillon 650 apart for a deep cleaning, I hadn't used it in 8 years. Got the conversion kits and dies for 9mm, 38/357 and 223.
I think I am going to do more revolver/lever action shooting. Keeping the brass is so much easier. I'm kicking myself for not getting that Kimber K6S last year, but hopefully the 4 inch version makes it to CA.
The last ammo craze woke me up a little earlier this time. So I got on it. Add that to the pile from the previous ammo craze slow down and I feel confident I have enough to equip myself, family and a few neighbors for a thing or two. If it's ever more than that then well I just don't know what to say. Can't say we failed for lack of trying.
But like an idiot I kept my practice and shooting habits up with my 9mm's. Just in early 2020 I picked up 3 more 9mm's. Gotta go shoot and train with them, right? I accidentally got myself down to about 1200 HD/SD/CD rounds without realizing it. Now I'm trying to play catch up and cannot find 9mm anywhere accept one lgs that has the 20 round boxes of Hornady CD for $30 ea, limit 1 per customer.
I've got plenty of 556, 22lr, 45acp, 12 and 20 ga, 357, 44, etc. I guess I've got about 20k rounds altogether with most of it being equally 556 and 22lr. And I've got cases, pills, primers and powder to make a couple thousand more 308, 30-06, 7mm rem mag. But I'm honestly afraid I may not get to shoot my 9mm's for a while until all this passes.
In for a group buy of 9mm ammo or even 5.56 if available.
Here is an update on my companies efforts to secure ammo.
We have been working on it feels like forever, but I am guessing a little over 3 weeks. We are negotiating with multiple sources, but everyone is in the same boat with Corona reduce staff, so things take longer.
Ammo factories are shut down or working with reduced staff in many places.
Having said all that, we are hoping to have deals closed by the end of next week. Then I need to work on import issues.
Thanks for your efforts. It is appreciated.
I have access to ammo.
What do people think is it worth it to bring in a container of 5.56 and 9mm ball?
I’d be game for 556
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Grand58742
08-14-20, 09:37
Here is an update on my companies efforts to secure ammo.
We have been working on it feels like forever, but I am guessing a little over 3 weeks. We are negotiating with multiple sources, but everyone is in the same boat with Corona reduce staff, so things take longer.
Ammo factories are shut down or working with reduced staff in many places.
Having said all that, we are hoping to have deals closed by the end of next week. Then I need to work on import issues.
Ammo factories should be essential workers...
IKnowNotEverything
08-14-20, 10:25
Thank you Yoni. I’m interested to what you come up with.
I searched last night and magazines are still readily available, which is slightly encouraging. I think that spare mags/lowers/firearms/armor? should be priority if you have an emergency ammo stash.
Optics, mounts, and gear probably aren’t going anywhere, with the exception of night vision. Some ****o politician will decide that needs to be on the ban list
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-14-20, 14:41
Anyway, told him I'd put him together one and go from there. Problem was, the stripped lower I was looking at on PSA is now sold out. I knew I had one in my safe, so no harm since it's been there at least five years and I can part with it since he's one of the good guys. I check to make sure everything's good to go and to my surprise hiding behind it are two more stripped lowers apparently I picked up years ago when they were sub $50.
Maybe it's time I checked my safe a little closer...
I'm not sure how many spare lowers I have right now... used to just pick one up when I stopped by the LGS and if the BGCs were running fast.
Thank you Yoni. I’m interested to what you come up with.
I searched last night and magazines are still readily available, which is slightly encouraging. I think that spare mags/lowers/firearms/armor? should be priority if you have an emergency ammo stash.
Optics, mounts, and gear probably aren’t going anywhere, with the exception of night vision. Some ****o politician will decide that needs to be on the ban list
So many places have mag limits now, the market is smaller, and it has been saturated for 15 years now.
PSA still has lowers and LPKs. BCM is sold out of pretty much everything, same with Grant. I'm not really in the market, so I haven't done an exhaustive search.
Here is an update on my companies efforts to secure ammo.
We have been working on it feels like forever, but I am guessing a little over 3 weeks. We are negotiating with multiple sources, but everyone is in the same boat with Corona reduce staff, so things take longer.
Ammo factories are shut down or working with reduced staff in many places.
Having said all that, we are hoping to have deals closed by the end of next week. Then I need to work on import issues.
Big thumbs up to you! And thanks for your time and effort into doing this.
Yoni, many thanks for working you resources on this. You are the man!
Stop, I post updates to keep people informed not to get thanks.
Thanks are not due until the mission is concluded.
Also I am doing this for two reasons, first more ammo in the hands of the correct people now is a good thing.
Second I am doing this to make money, and to keep my mind working. Corona has had a very negative effect on all our contracts. No different than every other business man.
Consistent with site rules, all group buys must be approved by site management. Any further discussions about a potential anything need to go to PM until such time as a transaction is approved. Please return this thread to normal message traffic consistent with "shortages of ammunition and firearms ramping up."
Boy, that ammo sure is short on stock...and prices are ramping up big time
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It’s getting worse for sure and I don’t see it getting better any time soon.
One, or two, in every crowd. : )
Belmont31R
08-14-20, 18:49
It’s getting worse for sure and I don’t see it getting better any time soon.
Yeah I've had to stop shooting, and not a buyer at 50 cents a round.
ColtSeavers
08-14-20, 19:14
Wolf 5.56 is damn near $0.60 a round... That's insane.
But:
Ammo is technically still available.
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