View Full Version : (Army) 33yo non prior service. Help decide on a combat MOS
I've done a lot of research but the info is rather shallow and sometimes very dated.
Looking for input from those with experience in one or more of the above. Honest pros and cons.
I mention my age because although I've always taken fitness seriously, you all would know something to expect that I might not. I'm well aware that mil is different (physically and mentally) than working out/recreational sports.
I really like the idea of basic combat knowledge/tactics but with a high/guaranteed chance of unconventional training and schools.. Sniper, sere, sapper, etc.. Also the more deployments, the better. I want to travel a lot.
From my limited knowledge:
-Infantry-
Pros:
lots of basic gunplay, challenging, pride.. Path to ranger or sf pipeline
Cons:
perhaps one dimensional? Just conventional unit tactics without extra knowledge/responsibilities?
-Cav scout-
Pros:
basic infantry unit tactics PLUS sniper, recon, smaller unit tactics, I've heard some demo and boobytrapping etc? More land nav? Sounds pretty fun
Cons:
perhaps not as good at conventional tactics (training time)
possibly a higher chance of death/pow risk in combat being in smaller forward groups? Hard to hide with large vehicles..
Garrison being primarily tank maintenance?
-Combat engineer-
Pros: Train with/attached to infantry, get to possibly blow shit up very often?
Cons: building boring but useful shit like bridges and fobs, have heard negative things about not being on raids with infantry.. Sometimes just setting up fences or driving down roads checking for IEDs nonstop forever (not seeing action in combat deployment would suck)
Also may be interested in EOD.. I have 4 years at a stem university and test well (96 asvab, 134 gt) but don't want to end up as a bad luck washout going wherever needs of army sends me
Please correct me if I'm wrong, share your perspective, any advice you might have, etc
Help me have the most fun possible. I want something that's at least somewhat HSLD.
Also, my recruiter is telling me these days its very rare to get slots in a contract for schools.. That it's now done in/after OSUT by various recruiters/cadre. Is this really true?
Thank you.
USMC_Anglico
07-30-20, 14:07
The only way to guarantee anything is by the contract. Want Airborne, get it in the contract. Ranger? 40X in the contract. SFAS? 18X in the contract, etc.
Only you can answer what you want to do. How about Officer, with a degree and GT you would be eligible. Many, Many options. Narrow it down and then people can help.
My 2 cents is always go SOF if you have the drive and maturity. That could be Rangers, SF, PSYOP, CA, etc.
turnburglar
07-30-20, 14:18
In my opinion you're a fool to join at 33, with a STEM degree? You said you have four years at the school but you didn't indicate whether or not you have the degree. The military is a young man's game for many many reasons. I turned 20 when I was in basic and was considered on the more mature side for the flight. My TI was only 23. The oldest dude we had was like 32 and in the guard. Even though he was a full time LEO; AF BMT was really a struggle for him. He dislocated his shoulder on the O course. You are gonna have kids 10 years younger than you, with half your IQ; telling you what a lame POS you are, because they figured it out themselves only last month. Lastly the MOS doesn't always guarantee the 'right deployment'. When I was in Afghanistan in '13 we fell under the 82nd Airborne. I saw dudes with airborne tabs do basic security around base. Controlling entry points, checking ID's, ect. My own sister unit was a cav platoon and they where not the least bit impressive to watch on patrol. Flat out the only Army guys I ever was comfortable being around outside the wire where the Ranger's or SF dudes. Everyone else is way too 'just off the HS football team'.
Is your main goal just to do some badass gun stuff like you’d see in movies?
How fit are you?
Do you have a family?
And related to above, do you care about money?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My 2 cents: you’re too old for a Ranger scroll, maybe not a tab. If you really want to do it you better do it quickly. If I were you I’d look into NG SF, 19th or 20th Group.
I don't have a degree yet. I changed majors and have another year-1.5 to finish my bachelor's. Which I may just do online slowly during active duty.
I have no interest in becoming an officer. No love for money. I want training, capabilities, and memories.
I'm also not looking for training for a civilian job afterward. This is for serving my country, life experience, and fun (I'm well aware it won't always be fun.)
I don't think I'm too old.. The age limit for SFAS is 36 and for big army enlistment is 35. I also have a few years experience studying with bright and upstanding 18-20yo. So being around that age group isn't a big deal to me. Perhaps for most people my age, it would be. But I get along just fine.
I have no premonitions or delusions. I'm not a movie-watching wannabe copycat. I've had a rough and interesting life. I bust my ass and I'm rather intense. I like to think that if somebody at my age would be just fine, it'd be somebody like me.
I'm very interested in SF, but the 18x enlistment option now says max age of 28 (unwaiverable.) I've also read that the avg selected is 31yo.. And that the avg Ranger is 21yo. Perhaps I'll approach SF pipeline the long, traditional route.
No wife. No kids. I don't even deal with dating bs anymore. No ties.
As for fitness, the new ACFT is a breeze.. I would easily max it all besides distance running. Which I have time to bring back up to speed. I don't want to ship until January.
If I don't enlist I know I'll regret it forever. I'd rather die than live with regret but that's just me. I need to do this.
My 2 cents: you’re too old for a Ranger scroll, maybe not a tab. If you really want to do it you better do it quickly. If I were you I’d look into NG SF, 19th or 20th Group.
Thanks. Would you care to explain why too old for ranger bn and why SF might be a better fit? Culture/pipeline/standards? I appreciate your input
The NG SF option is very interesting.. I just thought active might be better for me re: preparation/training for selection as well as the fact that I'm a current student, not in an established career. So life would just be easier/more simple as active duty.
It's just the 18x age limit ordeal. I could put in a packet after 11x/19d OSUT if I go active duty
EDIT: I now don't see this thread in the forum and when I try to reply, it says I don't have permission to access this page.. What's the deal?
Would you pass the physical at MEPS?
I don’t mean strength, endurance, and all that. As we age, lots of little things come up that can get in the way. Besides the advice from others who know 100% more about the military path itself, I’d get yourself thoroughly physically vetted by someone before you start down a lengthy road.
In your shoes, as cool as it sounds, I’d really listen to those who have the actual experience. I know that after a lot of research, I had zero interest in anything other than SF or an officer path (aviation wasn’t an option for me).
Then again, I had a friend the exact same age as me who went in a year earlier and now flies choppers. Loves his life. But he was about 27, and a lot of luck happened.
Failure2Stop
07-30-20, 16:00
At your age, you absolutely, positively, without a doubt will be happier on the SOF side of the house.
If you can't get 18x due to age, go the traditional route.
But I'd recommend going through a more technical career field than 11x.
Have you talked to a recruiter?
ETA: you can't reply because this was apparently moved to "GD" which has a minimum post count before ability to actively participate.
You’re not to old to be a Ranger, I think. Try for 68W with a Ranger contract, and move to SF or other from there. To be sure, call a SORB recruiter to ask about age. They are not the ones that get you into the Army, but rather the ones that get people moved from big Army to SOF. So, they will know the answer to the age question and have no reason to bullshit you.
Edit: do not, under any circumstances, join the Reserves. Ever. For any reason. Don’t.
Edit 2: I spoke to a SORB recruiter to satisfy my curiosity. There does not appear to be an age problem for getting into 75rr as long as you have a 105GT and wreck PT.
Coal Dragger
07-30-20, 17:06
Dude has a college degree in STEM? Dude is 33 years old?
Uhhh...... yeah I don’t think enlisting at that age is a good plan. Sorry but infantry is a younger man’s game, at 33 even in good shape you’re going to be much more likely to pick up an injury and take a lot longer to recover from injuries. You’re starting out 5-7 years younger than a lot of career guy’s age when they retire.
Here’s what will happen you’re a grown ass man, you’re going to go to boot camp with some kids young enough to almost be your kids. You will be treated like a kid, but hey it’s boot right? Things will be better when I get to my unit. Nope. You’re still a private, and will be treated as such. This goes beyond mere private busy work, you’re going to be treated like a moron by policy like you were 18-19 years old. Every aspect of your current adult life where you get to make decisions will go away to be replaced with your unit dumbing your existence down to what an 18 year old can be expected to do and not totally screw up. Plus GWOT is winding down, you’re not deploying anywhere any time soon.
You will get to enjoy this existence until you’re able to get a shot at doing something that doesn’t totally suck a bag of dicks. Then you go to Q course or RIP or whatever have you, and try to not get injured and keep up with kids who are PT studs, or guys your age who have been doing this stuff since age 18 have forgotten more than you know at this point.
So unless you get a contract specifically giving you a direct shot at SF, you should run away. Do not walk, run. Also remember if you fail, the Army still gets to keep you, and you will just be another private.
If you currently have gainful employment I think I’d stick with that.
Sorry to be a downer but someone needed to point out some harsh reality.
Now if you want to commission.... that might be a better route. A 2nd Lt might show up knowing almost nothing but he is still an officer, and that means less menial stupidity.
Dude has a college degree in STEM? Dude is 33 years old?
Uhhh...... yeah I don’t think enlisting at that age is a good plan. Sorry but infantry is a younger man’s game, at 33 even in good shape you’re going to be much more likely to pick up an injury and take a lot longer to recover from injuries. You’re starting out 5-7 years younger than a lot of career guy’s age when they retire.
Here’s what will happen you’re a grown ass man, you’re going to go to boot camp with some kids young enough to almost be your kids. You will be treated like a kid, but hey it’s boot right? Things will be better when I get to my unit. Nope. You’re still a private, and will be treated as such. This goes beyond mere private busy work, you’re going to be treated like a moron by policy like you were 18-19 years old. Every aspect of your current adult life where you get to make decisions will go away to be replaced with your unit dumbing your existence down to what an 18 year old can be expected to do and not totally screw up. Plus GWOT is winding down, you’re not deploying anywhere any time soon.
You will get to enjoy this existence until you’re able to get a shot at doing something that doesn’t totally suck a bag of dicks. Then you go to Q course or RIP or whatever have you, and try to not get injured and keep up with kids who are PT studs, or guys your age who have been doing this stuff since age 18 have forgotten more than you know at this point.
So unless you get a contract specifically giving you a direct shot at SF, you should run away. Do not walk, run. Also remember if you fail, the Army still gets to keep you, and you will just be another private.
If you currently have gainful employment I think I’d stick with that.
Sorry to be a downer but someone needed to point out some harsh reality.
Now if you want to commission.... that might be a better route. A 2nd Lt might show up knowing almost nothing but he is still an officer, and that means less menial stupidity.
As a former 11B I agree with this. I'm glad I did it right out of high school, but I sure as **** wouldn't want to do it in my 30s. Every time I start trying to think of the reasons I wouldn't want to at this age, my brain just fills with images of all the over the top stupidity that we had to deal with and I'm rendered wordless.
Averageman
07-30-20, 17:47
You're 33, your peers will be as young as 17.
I was still in great shape at 33 while in the Military, but I had almost 16 years in at that point and had been well used to the tempo and physical demands on my body by then.
I don't know your physical conditioning, prior injuries or aptitudes, but I believe you are very likely to be unhappy as an enlisted guy. At 33, I was an E-7, I had little shit sandwiches to eat, as an E-1 through E-4 they were Super Sized and usually served by some ass clown Junior Leadership that were highly questionable at best.
Finish your degree and if you have to, go in the Guard or OCS if you're not too old.
Even if you can physically endure, I promise you, you will be highly frustrated working with your peers.
You're 33, your peers will be as young as 17.
I was still in great shape at 33 while in the Military, but I had almost 16 years in at that point and had been well used to the tempo and physical demands on my body by then.
I don't know your physical conditioning, prior injuries or aptitudes, but I believe you are very likely to be unhappy as an enlisted guy. At 33, I was an E-7, I had little shit sandwiches to eat, as an E-1 through E-4 they were Super Sized and usually served by some ass clown Junior Leadership that were highly questionable at best.
Finish your degree and if you have to, go in the Guard or OCS if you're not too old.
Even if you can physically endure, I promise you, you will be highly frustrated working with your peers.
This is VERY good advise. You will hate going in to any of the combat arms MOS’ at your age. Unless you’re running marathons with a 40 pound ruck right now. Mentally it will suck, having to put up with the petty BS from the idiots younger than you who are in charge.
BoringGuy45
07-30-20, 18:18
This is VERY good advise. You will hate going in to any of the combat arms MOS’ at your age. Unless you’re running marathons with a 40 pound ruck right now. Mentally it will suck, having to put up with the petty BS from the idiots younger than you who are in charge.
Not to derail this thread too much, but in your opinion (and the opinion of the other vets here), is the amount of bullshit recruits get put through absolutely necessary for creating good soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen of any age? Or is it mostly because they're dealing with young, immature, and often undisciplined kids?
I was 33 years 11 months when I promoted to O4, and as a field grade officer, flight hours were reduced. With a STEM degree, why not Corps of Engineers? They pay huge enlistment bonuses for that MOS. I have heard that Cyber Command is a hot field as well. I can appreciate your interest in something more exciting, but Big Green likes the young studs. Enlist in one of the above fields and qualify for a Green to Gold Commission and use your degree. Better pay, better living conditions.
If you can’t get an option 40 or 18X, go 11B. It’s been several years but when I went through, the Ranger recruiter came and briefed us and then every DS picked a few of the top performers to go to RASP. I wasn’t asking the movie question to be a dick. If you want that, 11B in Regiment is the best way IMO. I don’t have a long tab or scroll so there’s a few people on this forum with more direct knowledge than I (one already chimed in) but if you want another opinion on SF vs Ranger feel free to PM me.
If you want to do cool stuff, it’s not in big Army and a lot of it isn’t for officers even in SOF.
Also, on PT. You said you could crush the ACFT or something to that extent. I assume that means you haven’t actually done it. The individual events aren’t extremely hard, putting them all together is where it gets more challenging. The number of people that have actually crushed it is pretty small so you’re either a stud or a little arrogant, or I just misunderstood.
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Not to derail this thread too much, but in your opinion (and the opinion of the other vets here), is the amount of bullshit recruits get put through absolutely necessary for creating good soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen of any age? Or is it mostly because they're dealing with young, immature, and often undisciplined kids?
I think it works with young kids. I went through basic pretty “old” when I was 24. Only 2 guys older than me. I’m just thinking if I would put up with it now, and my answer is no. On the other hand, garbage leadership leading to my back getting as bad as it is left a bad taste, so maybe I just don’t have the rosie eyed view.
I've done a lot of research but the info is rather shallow and sometimes very dated.
Looking for input from those with experience in one or more of the above. Honest pros and cons.
I mention my age because although I've always taken fitness seriously, you all would know something to expect that I might not. I'm well aware that mil is different (physically and mentally) than working out/recreational sports.
I really like the idea of basic combat knowledge/tactics but with a high/guaranteed chance of unconventional training and schools.. Sniper, sere, sapper, etc.. Also the more deployments, the better. I want to travel a lot.
From my limited knowledge:
-Infantry-
Pros:
lots of basic gunplay, challenging, pride.. Path to ranger or sf pipeline
Cons:
perhaps one dimensional? Just conventional unit tactics without extra knowledge/responsibilities?
-Cav scout- Gay, gay, and gay.
Pros:
basic infantry unit tactics PLUS sniper, recon, smaller unit tactics, I've heard some demo and boobytrapping etc? More land nav? Sounds pretty fun
Cons:
perhaps not as good at conventional tactics (training time)
possibly a higher chance of death/pow risk in combat being in smaller forward groups? Hard to hide with large vehicles..
Garrison being primarily tank maintenance?
-Combat engineer-
Pros: Train with/attached to infantry, get to possibly blow shit up very often?
Cons: building boring but useful shit like bridges and fobs, have heard negative things about not being on raids with infantry.. Sometimes just setting up fences or driving down roads checking for IEDs nonstop forever (not seeing action in combat deployment would suck)
Also may be interested in EOD.. I have 4 years at a stem university and test well (96 asvab, 134 gt) but don't want to end up as a bad luck washout going wherever needs of army sends me
Please correct me if I'm wrong, share your perspective, any advice you might have, etc
Help me have the most fun possible. I want something that's at least somewhat HSLD.
Also, my recruiter is telling me these days its very rare to get slots in a contract for schools.. That it's now done in/after OSUT by various recruiters/cadre. Is this really true?
Thank you.
Did I mention gay?
(obviously a little biased, see sigline!)
Being 33 and sharing a barracks room with three eighteen year olds, no way in hell.
If I was your age and thinking the way you are I'd enlist for Air Force Security Police, maybe a NG unit. They get to play with guns and the USAF life is undoubtedly better than the Army or Marine Corps (probably Navy too, unless you like being cooped up for months at a time with nowhere else to go). The USAF security forces have evolved over the years to become not just gate guards anymore.
I do not regret my choice when I joined. I enlisted in Army Delayed Entry right after I turned 17 and was in it my whole senior year of high school. I left for active duty the day after I turned 18. There is a reason why Infantry or higher on the food chain are generally gotten into as a "kid" (talking first delving into it, not career guys who stay). When you get older you have more sense!
As an "old[er]" fella I am more mentally mature than I was as an 18yo kid. My body, however, is also. Kind of flip-flopped.....I could run and do PT quite well, but was basically a rebellious punk. Now my mind is right but I'd be in a wheelchair if I did the physical stuff I did then!
While I still keep in decent shape, I couldn't do the running/rucking that was required of me then. The other thing that would bother me is the obviously stupid shit you do and merely mentioning a better way gets you an "At ease!" The Army, especially the Infantry, isn't known for geniuses setting protocols on how to do things. It is the Army way, and that's it.
I still say USAF Security Forces if "gunning" it is your thing.
Averageman
07-30-20, 19:16
Not to derail this thread too much, but in your opinion (and the opinion of the other vets here), is the amount of bullshit recruits get put through absolutely necessary for creating good soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen of any age? Or is it mostly because they're dealing with young, immature, and often undisciplined kids?
I can't speak for what goes on today. I graduated OSUT in early 1981, retired in mid 2001 and served as a contractor embedded in either a Armor or Infantry unit from 2002 until 2015. I don't even know what is happening today.
Toward the end of my tenure as a Soldier I thought I noticed a distinct difference in the discipline. By the time I retired as a Contractor it was very noticeable.
I enjoyed Basic and Tank School, I excelled there. A Military Dad really prepped me for it though. Getting to my Unit was the first real time I got my BS level pegged. There were some heavy drug users and general losers in Junior Leadership positions then though. By 83/84 they had most of that cleaned up with urinalysis testing .
Hazing is one thing, kind of to be expected, but racial tensions, rampant heroin use (Germany) and the massive amount of alcohol these guys would drink was an eye opener.
I don't know what to expect now, these young men could likely be my Grandkids age, me at 59.
I do notice that now even as a technical expert on the vehicle, I could garner little interest in actually finishing or learning things. I remember being called at Church on a Sunday to replace a fuel injector (20 minute job) when I dropped everything, changed out of my Church clothes and in to my coveralls, nobody gave a damn about learning to change fuel injectors, so I did it myself. The vehicle sat there for another week in the maintenance bay.
It was just one FUBAR day after another and so when the cranes that hadn't been inspected in at least 3 years began snapping cables under load, I just hung up my hat and went home.
Nobody was going to be responsible, no one was accountable, I just couldn't put up with it anymore.
If you can’t get an option 40 or 18X, go 11B. It’s been several years but when I went through, the Ranger recruiter came and briefed us and then every DS picked a few of the top performers to go to RASP. I wasn’t asking the movie question to be a dick. If you want that, 11B in Regiment is the best way IMO. I don’t have a long tab or scroll so there’s a few people on this forum with more direct knowledge than I (one already chimed in) but if you want another opinion on SF vs Ranger feel free to PM me.
If you want to do cool stuff, it’s not in big Army and a lot of it isn’t for officers even in SOF.
Also, on PT. You said you could crush the ACFT or something to that extent. I assume that means you haven’t actually done it. The individual events aren’t extremely hard, putting them all together is where it gets more challenging. The number of people that have actually crushed it is pretty small so you’re either a stud or a little arrogant, or I just misunderstood.
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A little more on this. SF now is not SF of early GWOT. Units are still deploying to AFG and getting in the fight but that is not most of SF. Most of SF is doing something closer to their primary mission set, which is not direct action.
Did I mention gay?
(obviously a little biased, see sigline!)
As a former 13F, I support this assessment.
I can't speak directly to the Army, but I joined the Navy Reserve as a Seabee (Engineers) and was 37 years old at Great Mistakes. I was a married father of two and a full time LEO at the time. I had been on the SWAT team for many years and was a PT machine.
It sucked being the oldest one there. Try having a 33 year old RDC (DI) on you all the time telling you they're going to break you because you don't belong in his military. The snow watch, outside from 0200-0400 in January did suck. He didn't break me. I will say that boot camp was much easier on my mentally and emotionally than on the average 19-20 year old. Obviously, I think, the Army PT is much more physically challenging than the Navy. There were two others in thier 30's. They were studs and were going to be SEAL's. They failed and ended up Boatswain Mates chipping paint for thier enlistment. That is more the norm for the older guys that think they'll excel and get to SOF units in all the branches.
Guard and reserve guys can just about stay deployed if they desire. I know many Bee's that have the GWOT expeditionary, Iraq, Afghanistan, and even the new Syria/Iraq(inherent resolve) campaign ribbons. That's 4 separate one year deployments and I have friends with even more deployments as reserves.
In general older guys do excel once they get past the first enlistment and are usually E-6's be then. I've seen many make E-7, E-8, and even E-9 that came in later in life, or take a commission and stay in till 60, especially as an Engineer in the CEC (Seabee Officers).
In my time I've done multiple deployments to all the shitty hot spots and am really looking to retire in 10 months. At 56 the PT isn't hard but it does suck to have to maintain everything when your knees and back let you know your age. I made E-8 in 13 years and will retire as that. I never wanted an extra career but I'm glad I stayed in. I wouldn't do it as an active member but the reserves allowed me to serve and contribute without giving up everything else. Just do it!
Thanks. Would you care to explain why too old for ranger bn and why SF might be a better fit? Culture/pipeline/standards? I appreciate your input
The NG SF option is very interesting.. I just thought active might be better for me re: preparation/training for selection as well as the fact that I'm a current student, not in an established career. So life would just be easier/more simple as active duty.
It's just the 18x age limit ordeal. I could put in a packet after 11x/19d OSUT if I go active duty
EDIT: I now don't see this thread in the forum and when I try to reply, it says I don't have permission to access this page.. What's the deal?
Your age man. You mentioned being early 30s, I am a few years older than you and I’m starting to feel life. Ranger Regiment is a rough life. With a high deployment tempo, high training tempo and a high testosterone fueled/always on the move/kill everything mentality. Group is a lot more laid back and the typical SF dude is a lot more mature than the typical scrolled Ranger.
Active duty life is far from simple. There is always something filling the schedule, even when there shouldn’t be the schedule “always has to be filled”. And I’m talking about stupid daily barracks life not training or field time. If you go active infantry you will be in the field, which isn’t going to give you time to train up for selection. And depending on which NG SF company you are with, they will “coach” you on how to pass pre-selection, selection and Q course.
I’m not sure what the plan is for this thread and the OP now. He’s basically limited to replying via PM to everyone or spam posting this hell out of the other subforums to be able to post here again.
Either way, I don’t know if age is that much of a problem. His body hasn’t been beaten down from several years of army already so his 32 may be different than many of ours. Even if not, I know some old guys that can still do work. My last BDE had an old (40s) chaplain pass Ranger school.
Dealing with the kids as peers would be super shitty though, which is part of the reason I have only advocated for SOF.
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Hammer_Man
07-30-20, 22:39
I think at 33 he’s too old for an 18x contract. He may want to talk to an Air Force recruiter, last time I talked to them they raised their SF age limit to 40. That was a year or two ago, so it may have been changed.
I'll throw this up here in case the OP is still reading. I got in at 25, went to basic, OCS, Airborne, Commissioned infantry, got hurt, went to 101st had a Platoon, branch transferred to Signal, worked for MPs, Infantry and now the Cavalry.
First and foremost, Complete your degree before you come in, that way you have a plan B if it dosen't work out. The Army isn't for everyone and folks get injured all the time. Don't expect to have a lot of down time in your first year or two, between basic/AIT and being the low man on the scrotum pole, you'll be busy. Additionally, even though the GWOT has spun down on the conventional side (not completely) the OPTEMPO is still high and you'll probably find yourself in Europe or Korea on Rotation. You don't want to be the guy that comes out of the Army at 40 and has to go back to college IOT get an entry level job in your field.
Age wise I can't really comment without knowing you. Some folks hit their prime later in life and others start going down hill rapidly. The old PT scoring table adjusted for age, the new one doesn't. The APFT is easier to pass (except folks are having issues with it, check out the statistics) but it's harder to max (YMMV). Also understand, we have a new test, we don't necessarily have a plan to train for it (but, we have purchased a lot of beaver fit gear). If you want to be SOF, you better be maxing the ACFT and any other PT test they give you.
Big Army infantry are good dudes, but their TTPs, training and equipment are IMHO well behind the SOF guys. We usually would learn from them and adopt some of their gear, but it would take time to get from them to us. Also, big Army is pivoting towards Large Scale Combat Operations, killing enemy tanks and Infantry and deal with incoming artillery and aviation. So don't be surprised if you do less room clearing and more Gunnery. Or if you are light, more dismounted patrolling and battle drills. You'll still do MOUT training and hopefully some underground and mega city stuff too. Expect to fight the OPFOR at the national training centers every year or two.
Don't think getting into SOF will be easy, it won't. I saw one of the best NCOs I've every known fail a try out. He impressed the unit and they invited him back for a second try, he aced it and I never saw him again. He was tabbed and Scrolled, did PT literally morning, noon and night and was a no shit expert at all things Infantry. The Army is fixing to go into another RIF, so they'll be less slots and higher standards.
Also remember that not all SOF is the same. Special Forces has several missions, direct action (the cool guy Ninja Stuff) is only one of them. The SF guys have a language requirement for a reason. Better be prepared to use your Brain as much if not more then your trigger finger. Then there is Ranger Regiment and it's BNs. IMHO the Rangers are our best and most diversely trained light Infantry guys. They do stuff that must regular infantry units fantasize about, but it's still Infantry esq, like Raids. Ambushes, Going after HVTs and supporting other SOF elements. However, the Rangers are very competitive to get into and competitive to stay in. Then there are other units under the SOF umbrella, but I'm not qualified to talk about them.
I'd talk to you about the O side and mention that most new Infantry Officers get a shot at Airborne and Ranger School right out of Infantry Officers Basic Course or whatever they are calling now, I think it's Infantry Basic Officer Leadership Course (I-BOLC) now. But you don't seems interested in it. I'll say that if you think being an O is all about the $, then you are wrong, it's all about power point(Fu%^ PowerPoint). It's more like playing Quarterback or being a Fire Chief, you call the plays (to an extent) but your offensive line does most of the scoring or you hose teams put out the fire while you work the radio. Given your advanced age, you'd probably like the lifestyle of an O better then a junior soldier, but you aren't interested. O's can also go to SOF, I've noticed it's easier for most LTs to get the training time need to prep for selection. The Enlisted guys, especially the junior ones seem to always get stuck on details and rarely get time during the duty day to prep, unless the SF recruiter is running a specific prep program or your leadership is especially supportive.
Understand, as a single enlisted guy just out of basic, you will live in the barracks, probably with a room mate in the same room (some posts have individual rooms with a shared bath). It's hard to score, when your roomate is sitting in the corner playing X-Box wearing a Furry Costume (oh the things you find during barracks inspection). Don't surprised if you get hit up for a ride or assigned as the new kid's sponsor because you have a car. You'll be older than your PL, maybe your Platoon SGT and definitely most of your platoon mates, so finding people to hang out with might be difficult. Also, you will not be able to keep your firearms in your barracks room. They will have to be stored off post or in the unit arms room (where you'll need to ask permission to draw them).
Given what the OP wrote, he might want to look into the 18X option if it's still available. Guaranteed shot at infantry school, airborne school, a DLAB and a shot at SF selection in exchange for 8 years of your life. Just don't fail, quit or get injured during the training pipeline. I had a couple of 18X dropouts in my company. Good kids all of them, but they were stuck doing a job they had not signed up for. IMHO the 18X is a bit of a trap, as they know there is a significant failure rate in the pipeline.
Or You could go for an option 40 contract, which is a Ranger Contract. I don't know the length of service obligation, but I would be surprised if it is 8 years. This option isn't exclusive to infantry guys. A couple of the dudes from my basic class where Medics and they went to RASP after AIT. The unit decides if/when to send you to ranger school. Also like the 18X contract is you wash out or get injured, you still owe the obligation (unless they med board, Chapter or RIF you).
YMMV and Good Luck
As a former 13F, I support this assessment.
Signature checks out
OP,
I was an 11B for 8 years, and intend to return to Active Duty as a Physician Assistant. I'll be in my mid-30s by the time I'm eligible to commission.
You're already aware of the cons of joining the Army at your age; namely, the high risk of injury in training which could drastically change your career trajectory, the common demographic of enlisted Soldier is far and away different than where you are in life, and that being in a conventional unit has a lot of downsides. Culture issues, lack of relevant training, toxic leadership, etc. You won't necessarily escape this in SOF, however you'll be in a community of motivated volunteers that will be an immediate 180 from the rack grade Soldier. With my current teaching gig, I have the fortune of working with various SOF units (mostly Army), and their maturity and capabilities are nothing short of astounding.
I wouldn't change my career, to be honest. I was a Paratrooper, served in a Scout Platoon for a while on a Recce team and got some great experience out of it. I spent a cumulative total of 3 years deployed over my 8 years in and, depending on perspective, was very lucky to have deployed at a time everyone's tempo was through the roof.
I was not a Combat Engineer nor a Cav Scout, so I don't have an opinion on the lifestyle, training, etc. of either.
My recommendation will be simple; do whatever job you want to do WHILE IN the Army. Some guys pick an MOS for the purpose of pursuing something else post-ETS, and they always end up miserable during their term of service. Whether you want to serve as an Infantryman, or a Medic, or a Mechanic- go for it. I did the job I wanted to do at that point in my life and wouldn't swap MOS' for anything. I'm doing quite well post-ETS because of all the intangible benefits that I gained from service- discipline, attention to detail, perspective on life, and the ability to commit to a cause greater than self.
I'll firmly recommend pursuing the 75th Ranger Regiment. Every Ranger I have met or had the opportunity to work with were highly competent, motivated, and extremely proud of their heritage. That's a good community to be a part of. I had guys I served with throughout my career who were Released For Standards for various reasons, and even though they were "kicked out" of Regiment, they were good Soldiers. The 75th have a fairly large list of eligible MOS', and you can direct pipeline in with an Option 40 contract. Yes, they are available. If a recruiter is giving you the runaround or telling you to volunteer later, do not gamble your career on a chance. Do not sign shit unless it's precisely what you want, in writing. You are never more valuable than when you first enlist, so make that count.
I went through a selection at one point and was one of the youngest guys there. Age range was mid 20s to mid 30s, and I firmly believe age has no more value than we give it. You will be at a higher risk of injuring yourself, but I assure you- none of your Drill Sergeants will want to break you. They have enough headaches from the punk 17-20 year olds coming in thinking they run the block. I had a Joe that enlisted at 32yo, and he's currently a 38yo E-6 with a Ranger tab, RSLC, Sniper School, EIB+CIB, etc etc. Solid guy that will be an asset wherever he goes. I had a handful of other Gray Bushes at various points and they all were the stereotype; chronic injuries plagued them. But you are not them, and there is no telling how your body will hold up. I was putting a minimum of 20 miles under my guys feet during a week of PT. You may have a fat **** of a Squad Leader who barely PTs, you may get a marathon runner, you may get someone training to go to SFAS, you may get someone who's on steroids and is a tank that just wants to kill things. No telling.
I know you can't reply to this thread, but PM me if you want the opinions of a conventional 11B. Good luck.
I can't speak to specifics of the U.S. Army, but military is military.
It it a young mans game for sure, which is just a fact of life.
If I were you I would PM a couple of the guys that posted here that have been there and done that in a Ranger Battalion or in the SF. I would ask them for input as to the PT program you should be doing. I would run a hard core PT program for a month, then do an honest assessment of how your doing.
I am all for following your dreams, but you have to be honest with yourself. Because if you aren't, life will suck worse than not following your dream.
I am not saying don't do it, but understand it is a hard life. Ask any guy that did a career in Special Ops, how his body feels when he is in this 50's or 60's, and these are guys that started as teenagers or early 20's. I did a total of 15 years in special ops, and then moved on, I have to do yoga 5 days a week for 30 minutes a day to keep from having pain.
OP,
Don’t let anyone talk you out of something you really want to do. That said there is a lot of experience here giving you advice. Probably a good idea to take it under consideration. As was mentioned earlier, you might want to talk to a USAF and an ANG recruiter. I know my former ANG wing has an ASOS and is hiring TACPs.
My cousin joined the ANG as Security Forces when he was 25. He loves it. He is in the RAVEN program which is a special SF qual. Ravens fly with AMC airlift aircrews (C-130 & C-17) and provide aircraft ground security when operating in any of the sh!thole countries they fly to. He’s deployed to Iraq a couple of times, and has rolled in to dozens of countries.
Dude has a college degree in STEM? Dude is 33 years old?
Uhhh...... yeah I don’t think enlisting at that age is a good plan. Sorry but infantry is a younger man’s game, at 33 even in good shape you’re going to be much more likely to pick up an injury and take a lot longer to recover from injuries. You’re starting out 5-7 years younger than a lot of career guy’s age when they retire.
Here’s what will happen you’re a grown ass man, you’re going to go to boot camp with some kids young enough to almost be your kids. You will be treated like a kid, but hey it’s boot right? Things will be better when I get to my unit. Nope. You’re still a private, and will be treated as such. This goes beyond mere private busy work, you’re going to be treated like a moron by policy like you were 18-19 years old. Every aspect of your current adult life where you get to make decisions will go away to be replaced with your unit dumbing your existence down to what an 18 year old can be expected to do and not totally screw up. Plus GWOT is winding down, you’re not deploying anywhere any time soon.
You will get to enjoy this existence until you’re able to get a shot at doing something that doesn’t totally suck a bag of dicks. Then you go to Q course or RIP or whatever have you, and try to not get injured and keep up with kids who are PT studs, or guys your age who have been doing this stuff since age 18 have forgotten more than you know at this point.
So unless you get a contract specifically giving you a direct shot at SF, you should run away. Do not walk, run. Also remember if you fail, the Army still gets to keep you, and you will just be another private.
If you currently have gainful employment I think I’d stick with that.
Sorry to be a downer but someone needed to point out some harsh reality.
Now if you want to commission.... that might be a better route. A 2nd Lt might show up knowing almost nothing but he is still an officer, and that means less menial stupidity.
^^^ This
I'm 34 right now, I was a Marine aviation POG who put in just over 5 years of service from 20-26 and have had 2 broken ribs, multiple knee and back issues due to hard landings in Helicopters. I was medically separated because of a lung issue. Honestly other then the guys I served with, I don't miss the life style a bit. I don't want to piss on your dreams, and if you really want to do it, then do it, but realize the life you live now will drastically change and it could have life lasting effects.
Did I mention gay?
(obviously a little biased, see sigline!)
That's exactly what I was thinking. Avoid 19D.
I was 11C and just got out. Unless you're in the 82nd ( or SOF)I don't think you'll deploy anywhere meaningful. Look in a normal Army formation and there's hardly any deployment patches. We had E6's with nothing.
The general lack of morale, lack of training, no deployments and constant stupid games in my unit led to extremely low motivation for me and others. Plus I got injured twice in the field. Do I miss it? Somewhat yes, the people were great.
Overall, I can't tell you not to join. We had an older 11B not get selected at SF, but he was able to go back I think.
I think 11B would have been better, they played Army more, but they also got hazed the most. You have like 40 people in your platoon so someone is bound to ruin it for you. As a 11C we had a squad of like 8-9 people. It was laid back and pretty sham. But we also sat at MFPs in the field all day while the 11B at least shot at stuff.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Avoid 19D.
I was 11C and just got out. Unless you're in the 82nd ( or SOF)I don't think you'll deploy anywhere meaningful. Look in a normal Army formation and there's hardly any deployment patches. We had E6's with nothing.
The general lack of morale, lack of training, no deployments and constant stupid games in my unit led to extremely low motivation for me and others. Plus I got injured twice in the field. Do I miss it? Somewhat yes, the people were great.
Overall, I can't tell you not to join. We had an older 11B not get selected at SF, but he was able to go back I think.
I think 11B would have been better, they played Army more, but they also got hazed the most. You have like 40 people in your platoon so someone is bound to ruin it for you. As a 11C we had a squad of like 8-9 people. It was laid back and pretty sham. But we also sat at MFPs in the field all day while the 11B at least shot at stuff.
Surely you got to blow stuff up, right? Times must have changed, the mortar squads I was in only had maybe 4 or 5 guys in each one (don't ever recall 6). 11B's humped more but when we did we were weighed down like freaking mules! PT was pretty much the same across the board from one Infantry company to the next.
I'm sorry, you lost me at have the most fun...and you wanna join a combat arms MOS?
I was in discussion with a dear friend and this subject came up. He's very well versed in deployments, the military, and ultimately killing the enemy. He articulated what he believes what should be the culture combat arms and it goes like this:
"Killing the enemy is the only thing that matters. Your proficiency at said task is your measure of worth, regardless of the job or the unit. Light infantry exists within a cult of death, mired in the fear of failure, but redeemed by the brotherhood that surrounds you."
If any of that sounds off to you, you'd be wasting your own time. You'll have fun along the way because the training is fun, but in the end, what's stated ^ is what is expected of you.
The US won't have a shortage of enemies anytime soon.
Surely you got to blow stuff up, right? Times must have changed, the mortar squads I was in only had maybe 4 or 5 guys in each one (don't ever recall 6). 11B's humped more but when we did we were weighed down like freaking mules! PT was pretty much the same across the board from one Infantry company to the next.
Oh yeah, I hung a lot of rounds. I was in a Stryker brigade, so even in a line company we were rarely on the ground with the bravos. We just hung out far away with the 120 ready. We were basically artillery, but at NTC, artillery would be called and not us.
We actually complained to our commander about our lack of training and never being used in the field. They'd even forget about us when the company gathered for the day. Oh well.
Nothing like shooting a 60 handheld under NODs while HHC was shooting IR Lum rounds though.
Oh yeah, I hung a lot of rounds. I was in a Stryker brigade, so even in a line company we were rarely on the ground with the bravos. We just hung out far away with the 120 ready. We were basically artillery, but at NTC, artillery would be called and not us.
We actually complained to our commander about our lack of training and never being used in the field. They'd even forget about us when the company gathered for the day. Oh well.
Nothing like shooting a 60 handheld under NODs while HHC was shooting IR Lum rounds though.
I will still go with my suggestion for the OP to explore USAF Security Forces. At his age (which isn't really that old) and knowing what I do, the Air Force lives a better life than the Army and the SF folks still get to shoot and train with weapons. Hell, some units even have mortars! (didn't know that until I looked it up)
While I certainly don't regret my being an Airborne Infantry Mortar Maggot, the above certainly would appeal to me more as I got older and wiser and had more sense!
"Killing the enemy is the only thing that matters. Your proficiency at said task is your measure of worth, regardless of the job or the unit. Light infantry exists within a cult of death, mired in the fear of failure, but redeemed by the brotherhood that surrounds you."
.
Your friend has a way with words.
I'm sorry, you lost me at have the most fun...and you wanna join a combat arms MOS?
I was in discussion with a dear friend and this subject came up. He's very well versed in deployments, the military, and ultimately killing the enemy. He articulated what he believes what should be the culture combat arms and it goes like this:
"Killing the enemy is the only thing that matters. Your proficiency at said task is your measure of worth, regardless of the job or the unit. Light infantry exists within a cult of death, mired in the fear of failure, but redeemed by the brotherhood that surrounds you."
If any of that sounds off to you, you'd be wasting your own time. You'll have fun along the way because the training is fun, but in the end, what's stated ^ is what is expected of you.
The US won't have a shortage of enemies anytime soon.
Don’t forget painting rocks and stupid shit like that. Thats why I suggested 68W. “Uhm Sergeant, I’d love to, but I’ve got HIPAA training to do up at Battalion today”
Coal Dragger
07-31-20, 19:19
Better yet just avoid enlisting at that age. Sorry dude, but your enlist in the Army ship sailed about 10 years ago.
Belmont31R
07-31-20, 19:23
Combat arms in your 30's as lower enlisted is a stupid decision unless you have some sort of ageless freak physical gift. Beside the physical side of it your age is going to not let you fit into a platoon or squad of dudes who are mostly 18-22 year olds. Barracks life in combat arms units can be like living in a mental institution at night. You will not fit in.
You'll be much happier doing something that would give you a skill, clearance, and is combat arms or SOF adjacent. PSYOPS, cyber, medic, intel, certain signal MOS's, EOD etc where its much less 18 year old heavy and your maturity can be a benefit to you and your unit.
And here's the deal with 18X contracts. Most of those dudes decline or self drop before they even get to selection. If you decide SF is something you want to pursue a couple of years in the military first is a great benefit. 18X is an awesome way to get people to join up with the lure of SF to fill out 11B slots in line units. 11B is great for an 18 year old who doesn't know what they want to do in life, and has the drive to go do military shit and where they literally don't know any better. At that age you're still dumb enough to go through the BS and come out the other side reasonably ok.
I was commo, and supported line units. We had 6 man teams that attached to the combat arms units in our brigade. My team was unique being a 'remote' unit so we got tasked to the brigade recon team. It was kind of a mix of elements from the brigade but 11B's, fisters, mortars, scouts, some Air Force dudes, a command group, and us lol. We got to experience a lot of the other aspects of the military and deploy with them. Still hard enough of a job that since I've been out I'm basically in back pain every single day, the back of my head and neck was numb for months at one point while still AD, I feel about 20 years older than I am. We got invited to do a deployed area Spur Ride with the Scouts and I can still remember a lot of that stuff like it was a week ago haha
If you had your degree I would actually suggest going to AF or Navy in some sort of cyber intel or linguistics intel job. They have better enlisted to officer programs, better QOL, and those jobs in those branches work adjacent to SOF. Seals have a pretty extensive support element next to them that SOF in other branches don't.
ColtSeavers
07-31-20, 20:58
Better yet just avoid enlisting at that age. Sorry dude, but your enlist in the Army ship sailed about 10 years ago.
This. No matter what MOS you choose, the only people you'll be able to relate to or get along with will be Senior NCOs, and you aren't going to be hanging out with them as lower enlisted, in or out of uniform.
This. No matter what MOS you choose, the only people you'll be able to relate to or get along with will be Senior NCOs, and you aren't going to be hanging out with them as lower enlisted, in or out of uniform.
Depends, I've seen some leeway there for instances such as this.
My input for what its worth... I went through basic at 21. Had a easy time. My problem was the immaturity of the others there. Seriously stupid. Went ROTC and got commissioned at 24. FA. Then I still had to deal with the immaturity of 18YO's. ;)
You may find a fast track to some cool job, but you also may find yourself standing on a drill field with 100 others in a formation for hours while you participate in some change of command in July while its 100 degrees. Because you are avaliable.
You're 33 and still ****ing around, half ass trying to get a degree. You're about to quit on that with a year left to go enlist with the hopes of doing cool guy shit. I don't know why anyone is filling your head with ideas of going SF or Ranger. Quitters don't get very far in either of those career fields no matter how physically fit they are. Get your shit together and finish your degree. If you're feeling a little depressed with where you are currently in life, being a 33 year old private living in the barracks in some leg infantry unit isn't going to make you happy.
My input for what its worth... I went through basic at 21. Had a easy time. My problem was the immaturity of the others there. Seriously stupid. Went ROTC and got commissioned at 24. FA. Then I still had to deal with the immaturity of 18YO's. ;)
You may find a fast track to some cool job, but you also may find yourself standing on a drill field with 100 others in a formation for hours while you participate in some change of command in July while its 100 degrees. Because you are avaliable.
Ugh. I have to go to one in August. Gross.
Belmont31R
07-31-20, 21:57
Depends, I've seen some leeway there for instances such as this.
Overseas duty stations are pretty lenient on this. I was in Germany for almost 4 years and when we wanted to hang out you just say its a team/section/platoon open invite. People that want to have fun do and those who wanted to spend their off time in the barracks did. Plenty of drunken moments with E6-E8's. When we got back from Iraq they kept the E6's in the barracks because of the 1AD realignment, and their corner rooms they got to themselves were the party spots lol
When I went to Ft Lewis even as a single soldier I said F the barracks and got my own place off post. Even as 23 I was done with barracks bullshit. They tried to rope me into cleaning the barracks after COB and was like nope I live off post and haven't slept a day in there.
Belmont31R
07-31-20, 22:03
Ugh. I have to go to one in August. Gross.
ADA and FA units are high on the anus penetrating stupidity because its not like they can go out to the motor pool and shoot off rounds. So they do a ton of filler time. At least 11B can come up with lower level training to kill off empty days.
Coal Dragger
07-31-20, 22:25
Ugh. I have to go to one in August. Gross.
You know a DD214 protects you from such stupidity.
I don’t regret doing an enlistment in the infantry (USMC), but honestly prior to deployment especially prior to 9/11 a solid 75% of any given day was usually completely pointless bullshit as a junior enlisted. Now we’re back to a basically peacetime military, so back to busy work and garrison bullshit.
BuzzinSATX
07-31-20, 22:37
ETA: Bottom line....I have to agree with folks that feel your best opportunity passes. But if this is something you feel like you need to do, it won’t kill ya, and it’s not a life sentence.
Some folks said USAF Security Forces as an option. It’s become a good career choice over the years, and motivated, sharp performers do well. I have several SF friends who retired as E8/9’s.
But at 33 years old? Not sure you can even enlist in the AF at that age. I know when I was in max age was 28, 32 for ANG and AFReserves.
Your issue will be you’ll be the odd guy out in pretty much every situation for the first 4-6 years minimum. You’ll be an old guy among your grade peers and a very junior ranking troop among your age peers.
It will take until E6 to start feeling like you’re in the right crown, and even then you’ll be the old guy at late
30’s. By the time you hit E7, you’ll be with guys your age, but they will be retiring left and right...hitting their 20 years while you’ll be just half way.
It will be a tough road. Know that going in. Use your brains more than your brawn and you will do okay...
I retired in 2010 at 47 after 28 years. I still work in DOD...mostly with a bunch or retired AF, Navy, and Army folks. I do miss my uniform, but I still enjoy the culture, even if it is getting way more PC these days...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You know a DD214 protects you from such stupidity.
I’m 4 years out from retirement.
Coal Dragger
07-31-20, 23:33
Ahhhh so you’re about the same age as the OP?
See OP, the ship done sailed.
Coal Dragger
08-01-20, 16:36
From the OP via PM:
I'm the OP of the general thread re: enlisting at 33.
I can't post there yet, so would you please post for me?
Just wanted to thank you and others on both sides of the issue for being real with me. It's exactly what I wanted and needed. I'm talking with an AF recruiter and I may go security forces, but he told me they're also hiring for the space force now (I laughed but now I'm curious).. Still leaning towards AF security forces. Machine guns, good food, hot women, etc. I'd also have an Associate's degree very quickly with my current credits, and finishing my bachelor's afterward.. In my situation, at my age, it really may be the best fit for me and my best long-term contribution.
Thanks again
Don’t forget painting rocks and stupid shit like that. Thats why I suggested 68W. “Uhm Sergeant, I’d love to, but I’ve got HIPAA training to do up at Battalion today”
Luckily he came in at a time and went to a place where (you probably know the neighborhood) it was straight out of the gate for him, somewhere around 2005ish.
Regardless of where you end up OP, the first year out of boot camp is gonna have you regretting your decision. You're going to get hazed and forced to do stupid shit. My only word of advice is to embrace it but plot to advance. Volunteer for everything, use your age and maturity to your advantage, don't brown nose but don't have a mightier than thou attitude.
If it's consoling at all, I've heard through the grapevine that there's dudes getting assessed and selected to serve in the Regiment in their 40s. Anything is possible, just stay focused.
My middle son joined the Army as an Airborne 11B at 28 after a few false starts finding a path in life. It has not been easy physically, plus he got caught up in the Corona CF in training and when he PCSed to Europe. On the flip side, he is doing something worthwhile and can definitely come out better off than he went in. I retired from the Army at 39 with 22 years service (POG). Basic, etc was a cakewalk at 17/18, I am sure they suck at 33.
Andy
sniperfrog
08-01-20, 19:37
I would finish your degree and apply to the CIA. You’ll have people your age going through the pipeline and you wont have some 21 year old E4 chewing your ass over silly bs. You’ll get similar training to the SF community. The only thing is you’ll spend your career overseas most of the time.
Business_Casual
08-01-20, 20:17
There are millions of unfilled cybersecurity jobs and the numbers are trending up.
BoringGuy45
08-01-20, 20:59
I'd go with federal law enforcement if you can instead. WAY better pay, you'll be with people your age and maturity, and you can find a better place to put your life and professional experience to good use. Admittedly, it's a tougher gig to get, and the hiring pipeline is long, but the payoff is much better. You also won't be vilified like local law enforcement. Plus, if you want to do high speed stuff, pretty much every federal LE agency has SWAT/counterterrorism units.
Honestly, I wouldn't consider the military unless there was a war and a draft and you were going to get drafted anyway. I'm speaking more from a physical perspective. No matter how hard we train, we're not going to keep up with guys 15 years younger than us who are doing the same training. There's a reason that pro athletes' careers rarely extend beyond their late 30s or early 40s. We may keep the same level of muscle strength, but the military is about muscle and aerobic endurance.
Coal Dragger
08-01-20, 21:38
Recovery is huge as you age, and doing lot’s of hard physical activity with little quality sleep is a good way to pick up an injury.
FLETC in the summer is fun. Length and intensity depends on which agency you are hired by.
Belmont31R
08-02-20, 02:27
I would finish your degree and apply to the CIA. You’ll have people your age going through the pipeline and you wont have some 21 year old E4 chewing your ass over silly bs. You’ll get similar training to the SF community. The only thing is you’ll spend your career overseas most of the time.
lol no
Majority of agency jobs are in cubicle farms. The guys who do actually dangerous shit mostly are SF or SOF vets to begin with, and that's ramped way down with the GWOT a shell of itself.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-02-20, 02:32
I was 19 in boot camp, 23 when I got out of the Marine Corps. At 31 now, with three kids, a mortgage, a career, good god I can't imagine ever going through that again at this stage in my life. Being bossed around by 19-20 year old Cpl's with no life experience? No thanks.
Officer route? Yup, if I had to I would do that. Junior enlisted? Please don't subject yourself to that at 33 years old.
lol no
Majority of agency jobs are in cubicle farms. The guys who do actually dangerous shit mostly are SF or SOF vets to begin with, and that's ramped way down with the GWOT a shell of itself.
Fact.
You're 33 and still ****ing around, half ass trying to get a degree. You're about to quit on that with a year left to go enlist with the hopes of doing cool guy shit. I don't know why anyone is filling your head with ideas of going SF or Ranger. Quitters don't get very far in either of those career fields no matter how physically fit they are. Get your shit together and finish your degree. If you're feeling a little depressed with where you are currently in life, being a 33 year old private living in the barracks in some leg infantry unit isn't going to make you happy.
Basically this. I'm sympathetic to people who take some time to find their way in life. But OP, your record does not indicate that you are a 'finisher'. Not saying you're aren't, but there's a lot more to it than the physical. At your age, you're going to have to be driven, because this will work against you mentally as people a decade younger than you explain the facts of life to you.
That said, I'm not one to stop anyone from chasing their dreams. Age in the military and age in civilian life aren't quite the same....carrying a ruck puts years on you. If you've been in the combat arms for a decade, carrying a giant ruck humping up and down mountains, living on energy drinks, dip, and alcohol, you feel the years. Guys who've been in for a long time aren't wrong that they feel old, but a fine point that gets glossed over is that a 30 year old in the military is like a 45 year old fit person anywhere else, lol. Of course, you can't outrun father time....in the peak of fitness you're still going to recover more slowly than guys a decade younger than you. But people older than you have done it, so if you really can't live with not going for it, then by all means. Full send.
A team leader in the reserves I served with (Marine) passed the scout sniper basic course in Camp Pendleton at 40. SSBC is sort of all the difficult things about infantry school made worse. Heavier ruck, less sleep, less food, far more difficult mental tasks, and much more physical every-day taskings. It has a very high attrition rate for many reasons, but if he can do that, you're not out of the game. For your situation though, I would go ARNG and then try out with an SF unit. The worst that happens is you see how miserable the day to day drag of most military activity really is, and you're stuck with a minimum commitment. The best is that you succeed and you get the chance to prove what you can do. In today's day and age, there isn't much mystery to the way these units select and train. The standards are public, and the internet is full of useful planning.
Be advised; it's almost never as cool as the cool stories you've seen and heard. But you may get to do some interesting shit. I would start with an honest evaluation of self. Good luck.
sniperfrog
08-02-20, 17:41
lol no
Majority of agency jobs are in cubicle farms. The guys who do actually dangerous shit mostly are SF or SOF vets to begin with, and that's ramped way down with the GWOT a shell of itself.
You can apply to be a case officer. Not many are former SOF. Most of the former SOF guys are contractors or protective officers.
I’ve known case officers that didn’t have any military experience at all.
sundance435
08-04-20, 11:03
My 2 cents: you’re too old for a Ranger scroll, maybe not a tab. If you really want to do it you better do it quickly. If I were you I’d look into NG SF, 19th or 20th Group.
Didn't read the whole thread, but this was going to be my $0.02 based on the folks I know that have done it.
I dont know shit about any of this stuff, but I woukd do as much online courses towards your degree while you wait to get in. That you too would regret not getting. You can always get later, but like most things the younger the better and it only gets harder later in life. Good luck.
PB
I’m blown away at the amount of genuine responses on here. This guy was of fighting age at 2005, the height of the war. If you really had the fighting spirit you would have enlisted, I don’t know, when there were real effing wars being fought. You’d also be in a recruiters office instead of an AR forum.
If you’re serious, stop reading these posts(which I doubt you are) and drive to a recruiters office and tell them you want to fight. That’s how you get started, not online. 90% of the people who served on here, including myself, did it this way. No internet. No forums. No “Surviving the Cut”. We read some books, got fired up, and walked into the recruiting station. That’s where it begins. Worry about the hypothetical schools you will almost certainly never attend later.
Don't Tread On Me
08-06-20, 07:51
If you’re serious, stop reading these posts(which I doubt you are) and drive to a recruiters office and tell them you want to fight. That’s how you get started, not online. 90% of the people who served on here, including myself, did it this way. No internet. No forums. No “Surviving the Cut”. We read some books, got fired up, and walked into the recruiting station. That’s where it begins. Worry about the hypothetical schools you will almost certainly never attend later.
About sums it up to a T.
Devildawg2531
08-06-20, 08:39
Combat arms in your 30's as lower enlisted is a stupid decision unless you have some sort of ageless freak physical gift. Beside the physical side of it your age is going to not let you fit into a platoon or squad of dudes who are mostly 18-22 year olds. Barracks life in combat arms units can be like living in a mental institution at night. You will not fit in.
You'll be much happier doing something that would give you a skill, clearance, and is combat arms or SOF adjacent. PSYOPS, cyber, medic, intel, certain signal MOS's, EOD etc where its much less 18 year old heavy and your maturity can be a benefit to you and your unit.
And here's the deal with 18X contracts. Most of those dudes decline or self drop before they even get to selection. If you decide SF is something you want to pursue a couple of years in the military first is a great benefit. 18X is an awesome way to get people to join up with the lure of SF to fill out 11B slots in line units. 11B is great for an 18 year old who doesn't know what they want to do in life, and has the drive to go do military shit and where they literally don't know any better. At that age you're still dumb enough to go through the BS and come out the other side reasonably ok.
I was commo, and supported line units. We had 6 man teams that attached to the combat arms units in our brigade. My team was unique being a 'remote' unit so we got tasked to the brigade recon team. It was kind of a mix of elements from the brigade but 11B's, fisters, mortars, scouts, some Air Force dudes, a command group, and us lol. We got to experience a lot of the other aspects of the military and deploy with them. Still hard enough of a job that since I've been out I'm basically in back pain every single day, the back of my head and neck was numb for months at one point while still AD, I feel about 20 years older than I am. We got invited to do a deployed area Spur Ride with the Scouts and I can still remember a lot of that stuff like it was a week ago haha
If you had your degree I would actually suggest going to AF or Navy in some sort of cyber intel or linguistics intel job. They have better enlisted to officer programs, better QOL, and those jobs in those branches work adjacent to SOF. Seals have a pretty extensive support element next to them that SOF in other branches don't.
I've read this entire chain and this pretty much nailed it. I'm 47 and former enlisted Marine and have stayed near my Marine weight and exercise hard. I've asked myself could I do it now and yes I could pass all of the tests easy and do well on PFT ... BUT I honestly would be very likely to be constantly getting injured. Also the mentality of being in barracks with 18 - 21 year old kids would totally suck. I'd honestly very strongly recommend a technical job and preferably as an officer. I think the barracks like with people 15 years younger than you will be total Hell. Good luck in your choice and curious what you do.
Belmont31R
08-07-20, 16:15
I've read this entire chain and this pretty much nailed it. I'm 47 and former enlisted Marine and have stayed near my Marine weight and exercise hard. I've asked myself could I do it now and yes I could pass all of the tests easy and do well on PFT ... BUT I honestly would be very likely to be constantly getting injured. Also the mentality of being in barracks with 18 - 21 year old kids would totally suck. I'd honestly very strongly recommend a technical job and preferably as an officer. I think the barracks like with people 15 years younger than you will be total Hell. Good luck in your choice and curious what you do.
Theres a reason dudes put a ring on the 1st piece of ass they come across :laugh:
Barracks can really suck. I got lucky at one point and had a roommate with a German girlfriend so after COB on Friday's he'd shower, pack a bag, and not be back until Sunday afternoon when we had to GI the common areas and get uniforms ready for Monday. Some guys got stuck with non-showering slobs who lived nasty...at least until the other guy had to complain to that persons 1st line about how disgusting they were lmao
On top of the potential for shitty buildings you'll get to listen to drunk idiots fighting and yelling late into the night. Barracks thieves suck, too. Living off post gives you that mental separation on days off and privacy that becomes important the older you get.
Thats one reason I suggested the AF. They take care of their people a lot better than the Army in that regard. Something a person in their 30's would appreciate. We had AF guys on the top floor of one of our buildings in Germany, and they got 1 person per room...then also got paid a stipend for living in sub-standard housing. Their rooms were also spruced up with ceiling fans, carpeted floors, and nice furniture. Never had to do CQ or clean common areas, either. Our chow hall was also deemed sub-standard so they didn't get meal card money taken out. Rank for rank they ended up with about $500 extra per month while living better than we did.
When I PCS'ed from Germany back to the states, and got to my unit I never even signed for a barracks room. Took a look at the barracks while I was still doing post in-processing and was like nope. Got into a place off post before I even reported and told the supply NCO who was in charge of assigning rooms that I was already living off post. Worked out perfectly because that 1SG had never deployed and was coming off a DS tour. Dude was still in DS mode mixed with 90's garrison mentality and had those poor barracks ****ers on their hands and knees scrubbing floors on Fridays after COB. That didn't stop until he started trying to drag married guys into the fun, and wive's were in the parking lot with the post commanders office on speed dial if their husbands weren't released by 5PM sharp. Turns out if the post CG has a standing order to release people by 5PM that means by 5PM and not 10PM.
I found out when I was dating my wife those barracks were tagged condemned at one point from asbestos insulation but re-opened due to lack of space for resident units. Her step-dad was an on post contractor that built a lot of the buildings on Lewis. Same style of buildings made the news at one point with constant flooding problems. I looked at that area of post on sat maps not long ago and that whole row of shit facilities are empty razed lots now.
^^^ What he said
The Army, and Marine Corps I'm sure also, tend to treat lower ranking enlisted like 5 year olds. The stupid shit you'd encounter in either of those two services, especially in combat arms, is why quite a few of us have recommended the Air Force. It probably isn't as obvious to an 18yo but in your 30's it would stand out big-time. Hell, even off-post personnel had to be in the barracks for first call (even for non-NCO's), so you could watch everyone else scratch their nuts as they rolled out of bed. That is only one example of the stupid shit I'd have issues with as I got older (and smarter!).
In Panama we had a "joint" base where I was, since we were an Airborne BN so were close to the air base. Ft. Kobbe/Howard AFB. Was talking to some Air Force guys one day and they would all chip in a few bucks a month to pay some Panamanian chick to come and clean their barracks, no "GI parties" for them. For us remedial shit like that was part of our "training". :rolleyes: I remember mentioning the "Expert Buffer Badge" and those zoomies looked at us like they had no idea what we were talking about.
I won't bore you with a bunch of hindsight, but I was infantry and EOD, and EOD has lasted 20 years longer than my infantry time. While I probably 'needed' the infantry when I was 17, it would be hard, if I were doing it again, to not skip the infantry and go straight to EOD.
Something I did not know about in my youth was Intel. They have some really cool jobs not directly tied to your PT score, if that matters.
Business_Casual
08-08-20, 07:27
Cyber security.
ZacSquatch
08-11-20, 13:39
I joined as a 12B (combat engineer) at 28, currently 32.
My knees and back are ****ed up, but its been fun. I was the oldest guy in the platoon at Ft Campbell (even our E7 PSG was only 26) and a struggle with some new E5’s trying to swing their dick to the world when I first got in.
Easiest job I’ve ever had but also the most retarded at the same time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I went in a bit older, and I was with some decent/high-speed units. But being superbly physically fit in one's 30s is a much different animal than being superbly physically fit in one's 20s. Late 40s? Forget about it. I did the work but the recoveries were much longer, and I was sore much longer.
I agree, it sucked ass being treated like I was 18, when I was in my mid and late 20s.
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