Forward assist

[doc_ralston]

Are they entirely necessary? Don't think I ever touched mine over two deployments. There are a lot of good-looking "slick side" uppers out there, so I just wanted to get a couple opinions. Thanks.

[mig1nc]

Are they entirely necessary? Don't think I ever touched mine over two deployments. There are a lot of good-looking "slick side" uppers out there, so I just wanted to get a couple opinions. Thanks.

This was just posted by gun Jesus

https://youtu.be/JHSSO-vJTSs


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[doc_ralston]

Great, thanks!

[JediGuy]

Gun jesus is almost certainly responding to this video, I think posted by a member of the forum.

https://youtu.be/MhjU8InWxr0

[markm]

Entirely necessary? No. But I prefer to have and not need.

[MSW]

Not a fan. Maybe it’s my SP1? Maybe my retro 604 or GUU-5P, but I don’t find them necessary.

[Red*Lion]

I have a forward assist on all of my AR's. Used it a couple times during a fire fight in Iraq. With that said....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=91&v=JHSSO-vJTSs&feature=emb_logo

[ColtSeavers]

I have always made sure to have a forward assist. I was taught SPORTS and use it for such.

Then I built my wife's AR with an Aero slickside upper (saved weight and I just taught her SPORS instead of SPORTS) and neither she nor I have had an issue with her AR without it.

Now I'm rebuilding a pistol again(God help me) and I'm purposely using an Aero slick side upper for it, because why not, one less thing to add weight and break, right?

So, at this point I think I'm ambivalent. It's odd not having it there, something's wrong with not being able to force a round into battery if you need to, and yet, why would you want to?

[Duffy]

Ian brought up a good point of people wanting to use a button or device simply because it's there. How often have you seen a car's head rest raised to its max height to the point the driver's head can't rest on it anymore, or keyboards with its front legs deployed, even though it makes typing harder and will fatigue the user faster?

I also agree with him that it generally works as designed. I use the FA, but also know when it's the wrong application to solve a problem. Any device can be abused and misused, the possibility, or the ability of the user to misuse and abuse it isn't reason enough to get rid of it, proper training and education would go a long way. Taking away a control or tool because the user MIGHT use it the wrong way is over correction.

[mig1nc]

Ian brought up a good point of people wanting to use a button or device simply because it's there. How often have you seen a car's head rest raised to its max height to the point the driver's head can't rest on it anymore, or keyboards with its front legs deployed, even though it makes typing harder and will fatigue the user faster?

I also agree with him that it generally works as designed. I use the FA, but also know when it's the wrong application to solve a problem. Any device can be abused and misused, the possibility, or the ability of the user to misuse and abuse it isn't reason enough to get rid of it, proper training and education would go a long way. Taking away a control or tool because the user MIGHT use it the wrong way is over correction.

Proof point, as a civilian, the only time I ever used the FA to remediate a malfunction I actually made the problem far worse.


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[doc_ralston]

You all have given me a great deal to think about. Thank you!

[ruckusjuice]

The only times I’ve used a forward assist are if I’ve done a press check and then the bolt failed to close completely because I had eased the charging handle forward afterwards. I’ve never experienced a malfunction during the course of firing that would have been made better with the use of the forward assist. I’m pretty ambivalent about it. I wouldn’t have a problem being issued a gun without a forward assist but wouldn’t go out of my way to get one. I can think of a couple of different ways a forward assist could cause big problems but I’ve never seen it happen in real life. I’m not as much of a rifle guy as many of the members here and I mostly concentrate on handgun shooting so take everything I’ve said with the caveat that I’ve put many fewer rounds down range out of an AR than many of the folks here.

[t1tan]

My uppers that had forward assists have gas vents installed instead. All my new uppers are slick, no forward assist.

[Korgs130]

I have a couple of retro rifles without the FA and it seems work just fine as originally designed. That said, I like having a FA and I use it all the time on my rifles that have it.

I took TMACS TAPS M4 Instructor course several years ago and Mac drilled home the need to create good habits. Among those habits is to make sure you know the status of your weapon before you go to work. He calls it a “Pre-Shooting Flow” or “Loading Ritual”

- Safety: On
- Stock: Correct Position
- Sling: Adjusted
- Ret Dot: Correct Intensity
- Insert Mag : Push, Pull
- Charge: Bolt Release or Charging Handle
- Press Check : Charge Handle Back, Check Round, Release, Hit Forward Assist, Close Dust Cover

I’ve made the above habitual and do it durning my dry fire practice as well. I don’t do the press check with my retros so I drop the Mag to verify a round is in the chamber. YMMV.

[JediGuy]

...know the status of your weapon before you go to work. He calls it a “Pre-Shooting Flow” or “Loading Ritual”

- Safety: On
- Stock: Correct Position
- Sling: Adjusted
- Ret Dot: Correct Intensity
- Insert Mag : Push, Pull
- Charge: Bolt Release or Charging Handle
- Press Check : Charge Handle Back, Check Round, Release, Hit Forward Assist, Close Dust Cover

I’ve made the above habitual and do it durning my dry fire practice as well. I don’t do the press check with my retros so I drop the Mag to verify a round is in the chamber. YMMV.

I learned the same from another trainer. What I’ve done to adjust to no FA is thumb press the little “divot” / scalloped surface on the carrier. Unless you get FCD’s design, it may be slick, but it does allow you to press forward the bolt after pulling back the charging handle to confirm round.
This press check system is the only positive I know to the forward assist. It makes things very simple and easy to reach.

[ViniVidivici]

I like 'em.

Good for chambering quietly, or quiet chamber check. 'Bout all I use 'em for.

[Mysteryman]

I have a couple of retro rifles without the FA and it seems work just fine as originally designed. That said, I like having a FA and I use it all the time on my rifles that have it.

I took TMACS TAPS M4 Instructor course several years ago and Mac drilled home the need to create good habits. Among those habits is to make sure you know the status of your weapon before you go to work. He calls it a “Pre-Shooting Flow” or “Loading Ritual”

- Safety: On
- Stock: Correct Position
- Sling: Adjusted
- Ret Dot: Correct Intensity
- Insert Mag : Push, Pull
- Charge: Bolt Release or Charging Handle
- Press Check : Charge Handle Back, Check Round, Release, Hit Forward Assist, Close Dust Cover

I’ve made the above habitual and do it durning my dry fire practice as well. I don’t do the press check with my retros so I drop the Mag to verify a round is in the chamber. YMMV.

Why not drop the mag to confirm a loaded chamber on all your rifles? It removes the potential for an out of battery bolt if you don't play with it. Pick one method and use it for all rifles.

[fledge]

I only see one use for the FA: to quietly chamber a round on an unloaded gun after safely climbing with said gun into a tree stand.

That said, your bushwhacking, coughing, snorting, and heavy breathing is noisier than properly loading a round anyway. [emoji38]

[ViniVidivici]

Hey, some of us have better noise discipline than that! HA!

[Disciple]

Why not drop the mag to confirm a loaded chamber on all your rifles? It removes the potential for an out of battery bolt if you don't play with it. Pick one method and use it for all rifles.

I was going to ask the same thing. This method also extends to any other gun with a double feed magazine. When or how is a press check superior?

[judgecrater]

Are they entirely necessary? Don't think I ever touched mine over two deployments. There are a lot of good-looking "slick side" uppers out there, so I just wanted to get a couple opinions. Thanks.

As Clint Smith teaches, (you do know who he is?), "Why would you want to beat something into the chamber that does not want to go in?" You eject it and put in a fresh round.

[Mysteryman]

I was going to ask the same thing. This method also extends to any other gun with a double feed magazine. When or how is a press check superior?

Couldn't agree more!! :cool:

[LMT Shooter]

I’ve used a forward assist if I’ve done a press check and then the bolt failed to close completely because I had eased the charging handle forward afterwards.... I wouldn’t have a problem being issued a gun without a forward assist but wouldn’t go out of my way to get one. I can think of a couple of different ways a forward assist could cause big problems but I’ve never seen it happen in real life.




- Safety: On
- Stock: Correct Position
- Sling: Adjusted
- Ret Dot: Correct Intensity
- Insert Mag : Push, Pull
- Charge: Bolt Release or Charging Handle
- Press Check : Charge Handle Back, Check Round, Release, Hit Forward Assist, Close Dust Cover




Good for chambering quietly, or quiet chamber check.

I agree with these three partial quotes.

[Korgs130]

Why not drop the mag to confirm a loaded chamber on all your rifles? It removes the potential for an out of battery bolt if you don't play with it. Pick one method and use it for all rifles.

There’s an argument to be made for doing it that way. My “retro” guns and my “go to” guns are set up differently. I’m left handed, so my manual of operation is slightly different:

Retro - Standard safety, standard CH, standard mag release, no FA.

Go To - Ambi safety, ambi CH, ambi mag release, FA

I treat them as distinct weapons systems. I’ve had my “go to” guns way longer than I’ve had my “retro” stuff, so I stick with the Pat Mac ritual as primary method.

[TomMcC]

Why not drop the mag to confirm a loaded chamber on all your rifles? It removes the potential for an out of battery bolt if you don't play with it. Pick one method and use it for all rifles.

This is what I do, I never press check any of my AR's. I have memorized on what side of the mag the cartridge is on my different mags.

I could see using the FA for a quite chambering.