Newbie needs help: Holosun HS503CU vs Strike Eagle 1-6 / PA 1-6 / other $300 LPVO

[bronconut109]

I have been saving up for a while and was all set to buy a Holosun HS503CU ($255) when I made the mistake of looking at some of the newer budget LPVs, such as the strike eagle 1-6, the primary arms 1-6 and a few others that currently sell for around $300. I've been around rifles for a while, but don't have much experience with optics.

The rifle this is going on is a budget 16" 5.56. My intended use is as a General Purpose Rifle/SHTF Rifle. I live in a hilly, heavily wooded, suburban area and I doubt I could ever get off a shot much more than 200 yards, much less that I will be justified in taking that shot. The rifle might be used as a backup for home defense (I prefer 9mm for inside the house). currently, the longest range I have access to is 100 yards. whatever optic I get, my priority will be quick shots of 100 yards or less. if I could also take longer shots, that would be a nice bonus. magnification would also be a big bonus for positively identifying threats. based on the ranges I would need it, I think 6x or even 4x would be the max I would need. I understand that neither of these choices are "Combat Proven" optics but the budget is what it is.

I have read lots of opinions saying that LPVs are the way of the future, that they are better than a red dot for my intended use. I'm not disputing that. I've also heard that when it comes to LPVs, you get what you pay for. so here's my question: is a $300 LPVO (not counting the cost of a budget mount) worth it over a $300 red dot?

[everready73]

For those distances i would be going with a rds. I would also be patient and look for a used aimpoint pro to pop up for sell on an EE. They are 300-350 with a mount.

Holosun has a mostly good rep and if going budget your best option. Something like Primary Arms new 2x prism could be a consideration as well

If you do go with a LPVO the Vortex PST 2 can be had around $500 on sale. I know it sucks to spend more, but if this is HD type gun worth it imo. I would say the Burris RT6 is a really good value option. I would go PA Raptor FFP over the strike eagle.

Swampfox Optics 1x6 Arrowhead is also a good option.

[arken]

From your description, I would second the aimpoint pro and a set of backup iron sights.

I am not an expert but if you sight in at 50yd with a red dot, you should be able to hit targets up to 250yd with the same hold.

The most expensive Vortex LPVO is still not a red dot at 1x because of the eye relief and eyebox limitations, although they are much better than budget options.

[bronconut109]

thanks for all the advice, thats kinda what I was thinking. with my specified goals, a red dot would probably be faster.

just out of curiosity, would it make a difference if I were to bump my price range up to $400 (Not counting mount)? thats close to the price of a new Aimpoint and puts me in range of the following LPVO's:

SWFA SS 1-4
Vortex Viper 1-4 (On Sale/used; I believe this is only available as gen 1)
Burris RT6 1-6
PA Raptor 1-6
Burris MTAC 1-4

would any of these or other $400 LPVOs be worth it or better than the other? I know that a red dot fits my current goals best, but magnification is tempting. also it would allow me to take longer shots if i wanted to.

[SA80Dan]

The Gen 1 Vortex Viper 1-4 is a fine scope with good glass and very forgiving eye box at 1x. It was so popular Vortex have actually re-released it as the Vortex Ranger, which you can find brand new for between 320 and 360. Nice reticle. But... and this is a general problem across the board with scopes generally under 500...the illumination is not 'daylight bright' or red dot like.

If you want a scope with a truly bright center red dot for that 'best of both worlds' feel, you will have to step the budget up another notch to that 5 to 600 mark where you can find the Steiner 1-4 and Vortex Viper Gen 2 1-6 which both have this.

I just upgraded from an original Viper 1-4 (which is going on to my M@P 15-22) to a Gen 2 Viper 1-6 which I managed to get an open box deal on for 489. Just got it mounted up and will be at the range with it this weekend.

If you absolutely can't bump your budget any further than 400....I think from your list of I was starting from fresh I'd probably go for the Burris RT6, but could be swayed to a Gen 1 Viper /Ranger if a great deal presented itself.

[vicious_cb]

I have read lots of opinions saying that LPVs are the way of the future, that they are better than a red dot for my intended use. I'm not disputing that. I've also heard that when it comes to LPVs, you get what you pay for. so here's my question: is a $300 LPVO (not counting the cost of a budget mount) worth it over a $300 red dot?

They are vastly different optics. An LPVO isnt just a red dot with magnification. Theres a huge weight and balance penalty over a RDS and unless you get alot of trigger time behind your LPVO you will always be faster with a RDS. You need alot of reps to achieve timer parity with a RDS.

[maximus83]

For the distance you're working within and your budget, the red dot gets the nod. You'll get a lot higher quality optic with a $300 red dot than you will with a $300 LPVO. And at your distances, the red dot gets you on target faster, and is less bulk, anyway. The Holosun as others have said, is likely to be the best choice in your budget. The Holosun are being tested in hard use, and recommended by some of the industry 'name brand' training guys to their students, so somebody out there thinks they are good enough to rely on. Just be aware that the Holosun are made in China, but really any decent $300 red dot you can find is likely to be made in China. So if you have an issue getting Chinese-made stuff, as some of us do after their latest actions, you might want to save your funds and look for a used Aimpoint red dot.

Another option to consider if you get say a $300 red dot: you can add a 3x magnifier behind the red dot. Give you a magnification option for increased precision and P.I.D. out to 600. If you select carefully, a red dot + magnifier can weigh a bit less than an LPVO, but give you best of both worlds in the sense of fast on-target in normal ranges within 100y, but still giving you some precision beyond 100. Example: if you're gonna get a Holosun, then check out the P.A. customized version with their ACSS reticle (https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-paralow-hs503g-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle). Right on that page they give you a discounted link to their P.A. 3x LER magnifier that goes with it, those 2 items together would a just a bit over $300, total weight 13oz, and that includes the mounts. Pretty nice setup for a budget red dot and magnifier.

[Eurodriver]

I definitely agree with everything everyone has posted.

LPVO weight penalty sucks and unless you’re spending about double your budget you won’t have a daylight bright red dot.

PS 5.56 penetrates less inside a house than 9mm

[ap1220]

Also agree with everything being said and suggest a red dot (preferably a used aimpoint).

[arken]

I want to throw the new Leupold VX Freedom 1.5-4x Firedot into the mix. The red dot is daylight bright and has motion sensing activation feature so you can leave it on and the battery will last for a while.

I've had a PST Gen 2 1-6 and recently got the Leupold. Here are my observations of the Leupold vs. the PST G2:

Pros:
Daylight bright dot with longer battery life (about the same brightness as the G2 on max)
Very clear glass, not very much behind the G2, and the Gen2 has awesome glass which is not very much behind a Razor Gen 2 :P
Very forgiving eye box and consistent eye relief (better than G2 IMO)
Lightweight at 12oz. With a Aero precision mount, you'll be right at 1lb. For sure better than the Gen2 at 22oz alone.
Price between $350 - $400 if you look around. You could spend a little bit more to get the AR Ballistic Firedot but that would put you out of the budget. I personally don't see the need for it.

Cons:
1.5x -not a 1x but this can be mitigated by shooting with 2 eyes open and a closed front cap. The G2 is better in this regards.
Push button for illumination. It can be annoying. G2 is way better with their rotary knob and the off in between
Not as "duty" grade as other but for home defense and hunting, I think it should be fine. I mean it's not like anything under $500 is "duty ready" anyway. The G2 seems to be more rugged but a lot more weight at the same time.

It's great to have so many choices, isnt' it?

[turnburglar]

I can't really answer the question of if you should get the RDS or LPVO. I have astigmatism so an LPVO will always be my choice.

I do however own 3 holosuns and have been using a PA 1-8 SFP since it was released about 3 years ago. All 3 of my holosuns have made it longer than 2 years constant on without battery changes. 2 of them have multiple cases of ammo under them. 1 rides on my CZ scorpion that I shoot PCC with. The CZ has much more recoil than a regular AR, and even after 2 cases of 9mm the optic has never flickered.

My PA 1-8 should be built to the same standards as the gen 3 1-6. It has probably 3 cases of 556, 300 rounds of 308, and almost double that in 6.5 creedmoor. The 308 and 6.5 where all from the MSR10 platform which is snappier then a regular AR10. If I didn't locktite the mount it would loosen in less than 80 rounds. Ive dropped it in the 3 gun barrel, rolled it around my truck bed, and slammed it into barricades during matches. Never once has it lost zero. Theres some minor dents in the caps, and scratches along the tube. I have some time behind my friends 1-6 raptor, and it is decent. I think when people say the PA optics are not day light bright, they really don't understand how the reticle works. Having a thick etched donut around a chevron is very clear where your bullets are going in good day light. When it becomes an issue is shooting in the dark or into deep shadows from brighter areas. The illumination is good enough for dusk or dark work. However there is no denial that my Steiner P4xi is far superior in the glass and useful illumination. The ACSS reticle is crazy good. Like when you start using it you will think: "why wasn't this done before?". Using Strelok and ACSS I was able to finish my last precision gas gun match 4th in class and 27/77 over all. Im talking about some targets barely over MOA in the 300-400 yard range. I get solid first round hits with ACSS when I do my part.

The whole point of this post is that in my experience: Primary arms and Holosun make a fantastic product. Not only have they been durable under my use; but PA has excellent customer service that I have used many times in the past. Even if I am not buying an ACSS optic I still get excellent results shopping through primary arms. I really don't think you can do better than a PA 1-6 until you spend at least $600 and jump up to the Vortex PST or the Steiner P4Xi.

[Pappabear]

Inside 200 yards RDS is your amigo. Get Binos for spotting threats and game.

PB

[bronconut109]

you guys are awesome. this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. now I just have to make a choice.

thanks again. if anyone else has additional relevant opinions, keep them coming.

[Jellybean]

Is there a reason you *need* the shake-awake feature? Because other than that... a red dot's a red dot.
If it was me and I wanted to spend $300, I'm going Aimpoint PRO all day. Unless you get a smashing deal on something like an MRO, it has no compare in that price range.
If you do NOT want to spend $300, why not just get the standard PA Slx line micro-dot for a whopping $130/200 with a good quality mount?
https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slxz-advanced-rotary-knob-micro-red-dot-sight

OR like Maximus linked, get the version with the ACSS reticle, if you like that. For the same 503 money, I think that's a way more useful reticle.

Currently running a PA 1-6. I really like the ACSS reticle, and the extra magnification. It IS easier to make hits at 200 with a little extra magnification.
But like some others have said here, I honestly really miss that fast, heads-up speed that red dots have. After using a PRO and PA micro-dot for years, it's going to take some time to get used to the LPVO.
I guess it just depends on what you think you'll need most; fast speed at 100yd and in, or still decent speed + ability to PID/hit at longer ranges.

Granted, option #3 is, add a flip-magnifier later to use with the RDS. But I think once you pay for that + a side-flip mount + the RDS, you may as well start looking at LPVOs. But that's just my opinion.

[bronconut109]

here's the reasoning behind my suggestion of that particular holosun model (hs503cu)

1. circle dot reticle. I thought this site would allow me the option to try out the circle dot and the regular dot, since I really don't know what I want. The ACSS reticle seems pretty cool. I get how it would be useful.
2. auto-brightness. its seems like a cool feature, even if it doesn't work for me, I wanted to go ahead and get a red dot that had it. that way I would not be second guessing my purchase. also the auto-brightness + shake awake would require very little instruction/training if I let someone else borrow this rifle.
3. no rheostat. since I'm left handed I thought it might interfere with my line of sight. probably not a huge deal, but again, if I'm going to spend $200 on a circle dot holosun, why not spend the extra $50 just so I am not second guessing myself.
4. shake awake. but this available on most of the holosun models.

I may be way off, so please let me know. I figure no matter which one I ultimately choose (Red Dot or LPVO), I'll probably eventually buy the other, so its just a question of which to buy first. if I get a red dot now, I will probably buy a magnifier later. I get that its the same price as a budget LPVO but once i try it I can either sell the red dot to buy the LPVO or move the red dot to another gun. Either way, I can use the experience I gain from whatever I buy first to help decide what I want second.

the aimpoint seems like a great site. I just hadn't considered it until now because brand new it was way more expensive than the holosun. I'll start checking around for a used unit.

thanks again for all the great advice. keep it coming.

[vandal5]

If it's helpful at all I posted a bunch of pics of my PA 1-6 ACSS Gen3 in a thread here. I'll find and post it in here.

This and the post below it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=2755007

[turnburglar]

The auto brightness and shake awake isn't worth the extra money. You are really over thinking this. If you want a holosun micro red dot just get the cheapest one for like $140. My gold one has the rheostat and the other two I own are the +/- buttons. I prefer the buttons; but I really wouldn't fuss either way. Just grab what ever is cheapest from a vendor with good CS and you will be fine.

[Disciple]

The Bushnell AR Optics 1-6X24mm with Vortex mount was going for $280 recently from Palmetto State Armory. Made in Korea.

Bereli.com has the Sig ROMEO4DR for $200. Circle dot reticle, motion activated. Assembled in USA.