View Full Version : NY Attorney General Suing the NRA, four members in particular
Now this is an interesting and disgusting development considering all the corruption in so many corporations and the government itself, to single out the NRA. Not a stretch to say it's no coincidence that they're basically a conservative organization.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-lapierre-ny-attorney-general/2020/08/06/8e389794-d794-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html
"The chief executive of the National Rifle Association and several top lieutenants engaged in a decades-long pattern of fraud to raid the coffers of the powerful gun rights group for personal gain, according to a lawsuit filed Thursday by the New York attorney general, draining $64 million from the nonprofit in just three years."
Grand58742
08-06-20, 11:15
Not just suing. Suing with the intent to get it dissolved.
https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1291397976200548353
I filed a lawsuit to dissolve the National Rifle Association for years of self-dealing and illegal conduct.
The @NRA is fraught with fraud and abuse.
No organization is above the law.
We are seeking to dissolve the NRA for years of self-dealing and illegal conduct that violate New York’s charities laws and undermine its own mission.
The NRA diverted millions of dollars away from its charitable mission for personal use by senior leadership.
and there's that (dissolving the NRA entirely)...
Not just suing. Suing with the intent to get it dissolved.
https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1291397976200548353
The NRA is based in VA, not NY. Where does the NY attorney general have jurisdiction?
This is not a shot across the bow, this is a tactical nuke inbound. If the NRA is taken down, the left will have free reign to take everything to include the Fudd guns. The GOA is awesome, but lacks the clout.
So my question is, if the leadership has been living large and dipping into the sugar bowl that is criminal behavior. Fill criminal charges, arrest the thieves and have a perp walk.
But to sue civilly, with one of the goals being to dissolve the NRA.
I call BS, on pure motives.
Grand58742
08-06-20, 11:55
So my question is, if the leadership has been living large and dipping into the sugar bowl that is criminal behavior. Fill criminal charges, arrest the thieves and have a perp walk.
But to sue civilly, with one of the goals being to dissolve the NRA.
I call BS, on pure motives.
Agree in principle, but also it's nice to see they are being overt about it.
While I appreciate the New York Attorney General looking out for me I really don’t want or need his help.
With that said the NRA is a joke. Maybe if it is dissolved GOA Will fill that void and take note to not misuse funds.Either way I could really care less, they will not be getting another dime for me.
So my question is, if the leadership has been living large and dipping into the sugar bowl that is criminal behavior. Fill criminal charges, arrest the thieves and have a perp walk.
But to sue civilly, with one of the goals being to dissolve the NRA.
I call BS, on pure motives.
I was thinking the same thing. How do you, pretty much, embezzel $64M and not have it be criminal? CEOs of corporations are doing hard time for what they are being accused of.
Straight Shooter
08-06-20, 12:01
Until about 10 years ago-I was an off/on member since late 70's.
Really believed in the organization..met Wayne..did a couple NRA Shows, ect. Donated a decent amount, wrote actual letters back in the day.
It was NEVER enough...MO' MONEY...MO' MONEY MO" MONEY is all I ever heard. ALWAYS an "imminent threat" somewhere.
Got fed up and finally had enough. Other than being a feather in the lib/dem/media cap...I dont care if they get sued out of existence today.
They got some 'splainin to do in my opinion.
**** the NRA. Let it burn.
GOA for the win.
**** the NRA. Let it burn. GOA for the win.
I am a life member of BOTH organizations. Be careful. I love the GOA, but when it comes to the fight the NRA is still the big dog on the hill. You don't want to lose the NRA right now with Biden promising to ban assault weapons. Give the GOA a few more years to mature, THEN lets have this talk.
The NRA is based in VA, not NY. Where does the NY attorney general have jurisdiction?
This is not a shot across the bow, this is a tactical nuke inbound. If the NRA is taken down, the left will have free reign to take everything to include the Fudd guns. The GOA is awesome, but lacks the clout.
The silent majority needs to wake up.
Their HQ is in VA but I believe the actual NRA Corporation is chartered out of the State of New York.
This is war. There is no other way to explain this. If they succeed we are done. Wayne probably NEEDS to go to jail, I won't argue that point but the organization as a whole has done and continues to do a lot of good for gun owners. It's loss WILL be noticed.
How are your local "accountability files" looking? As Goethe said, "Let everyone sweep in front of their door and soon the whole world will be clean".
BoringGuy45
08-06-20, 12:15
Like anybody would notice. The NRA hasn't even been protecting fudd guns. Anytime an anti-gun law passes, they say "That sucks. Good luck! Oh, and donate to us because we were the only reason things weren't worse.
Seriously though, I think that the left is making a mistake with this. They're going after a paper tiger. We're not "done" if they succeed. Grassroots and state organizations have done a hell of a lot more than the NRA has done.
BoringGuy45
08-06-20, 12:18
I am a life member of BOTH organizations. Be careful. I love the GOA, but when it comes to the fight the NRA is still the big dog on the hill. You don't want to lose the NRA right now with Biden promising to ban assault weapons. Give the GOA a few more years to mature, THEN lets have this talk.
The GOA is going to see a huge influx if NY succeeds.
I am a life member of BOTH organizations. Be careful. I love the GOA, but when it comes to the fight the NRA is still the big dog on the hill. You don't want to lose the NRA right now with Biden promising to ban assault weapons. Give the GOA a few more years to mature, THEN lets have this talk.
My support for GOA is based simply on their merit and track record. I have nothing but disdain and disgust for the NRA nowadays.
And why are so many cowering in fear, as if only lobbying organizations and politicians are somehow securing and protecting our Rights?
We, the people, and our arms are what’s protecting anything further from happening. Or atleast, we should be. That’s our duty as able bodied citizens. We, the ants, outnumber the grasshoppers, 100 to 1... why can’t most clearly see that?
**** the NRA. Let it burn.
GOA for the win.
Pretty much my thoughts on the issue.
Wayne is a scumbag and the NRA has be ineffective in protecting the 2nd for a long time now.
I'm sending my money to GOA, SAF, and JPFO. Sure, they're not a big, but they're also not blatantly stealing my money either
I've been a big fan and member of GOA for a while now and always thought they were less likely to be influenced and they've become pretty good at getting alerts out in a timely fashion and attacking/defending in the right places at the right times but I still think that even just the optics of the NRA going under would be bad for anyone to the right of the current crop of lefty nutbags (pelosi, schumer, schiff, biden, talib, AOC, etc, etc)
Business_Casual
08-06-20, 13:17
Standing?
Grand58742
08-06-20, 13:30
The NRA is based in VA, not NY. Where does the NY attorney general have jurisdiction?
This is not a shot across the bow, this is a tactical nuke inbound. If the NRA is taken down, the left will have free reign to take everything to include the Fudd guns. The GOA is awesome, but lacks the clout.
Apparently, they incorporated in NY.
Diamondback
08-06-20, 13:38
Standing?
Comes from being chartered in the Rotten Apple.
Grand58742
08-06-20, 13:39
NRA is chartered as a New York corporation, not fixing that and moving out to recharter elsewhere is the biggest mistake Wayne ever made.
Could they have rechartered elsewhere? From the Congressional standpoint so to speak.
Diamondback
08-06-20, 13:51
Could they have rechartered elsewhere? From the Congressional standpoint so to speak.
I see no reason why not... for-profit corps do it pretty regularly, and not just changing states but countries--power-systems giant Eaton moved from the US to Ireland during the Obama years.
Follow the money. The NRA says they want to spend hundreds of millions in ad money for the upcoming election. Gee.. I WONDER if the NY ag is going to try and freeze any $$$ assets... Let's just tie up their money in court. By the time this gets litigated, the election will be over. Meanwhile, Soros and Doomberg are free to spend as much as they want.
Diamondback
08-06-20, 15:32
Follow the money. The NRA says they want to spend hundreds of millions in ad money for the upcoming election. Gee.. I WONDER if the NY ag is going to try and freeze any $$$ assets... Let's just tie up their money in court. By the time this gets litigated, the election will be over. Meanwhile, Soros and Doomberg are free to spend as much as they want.
Yup. https://freebeacon.com/2020-election/exclusive-nra-plans-to-spend-tens-of-millions-in-battleground-states/
I see no reason why not... for-profit corps do it pretty regularly, and not just changing states but countries--power-systems giant Eaton moved from the US to Ireland during the Obama years.
Maybe moving it would have cut in to the clothing allowance?
Anyone saying "so what" is a fool. The PROPAGANDA value of it will demoralize many rank and file on our side of the ledger and embolden the other side. Yes, Wayne is a POS, but the symbolism of destroying the NRA cannot be overstated.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-06-20, 15:43
The suit alleges NRA leadership used millions upon millions from the group's reserves to fund lavish trips on private jets, meals and other personal expenses, and that money was diverted to benefit NRA insiders and favored vendors, and that LaPierre handpicked associates including to "facilitate his misuse of charitable assets."
Like that doesn't describe most 501s and the Clinton Foundation in particular...
Well, the NRA better empty the coffers on this election. No reason to hold back now.
Diamondback
08-06-20, 15:43
Maybe moving it would have cut in to the clothing allowance?
Yeah, but part of a successful grift is knowing how to keep the grift going... and that includes eating some expenses to move operations when needed.
Anyone saying "so what" is a fool. The PROPAGANDA value of it will demoralize many rank and file on our side of the ledger and embolden the other side. Yes, Wayne is a POS, but the symbolism of destroying the NRA cannot be overstated.
I get this. I really do. But Wayne Lapierre only cares about one thing and that’s Wayne Lapierre. NRA is corrupt shit show full of either just in your face financial abuse corruption or they’re just totally incompetent. It doesn’t really matter which one. **** them! It wouldn’t break my heart if the majority of the organization ends up in jail.
I get this. I really do. But Wayne Lapierre only cares about one thing and that’s Wayne Lapierre. NRA is corrupt shit show full of either just in your face financial abuse corruption or they’re just totally incompetent. It doesn’t really matter which one. **** them! It wouldn’t break my heart if the majority of the organization ends up in jail.
Hell, I said earlier he should probably be in jail but we can't afford to have them sidelined right now, nor the publicity value of their scalp hanging in front of Elizabeth Warrens party Teepee
Anyone saying "so what" is a fool. The PROPAGANDA value of it will demoralize many rank and file on our side of the ledger and embolden the other side. Yes, Wayne is a POS, but the symbolism of destroying the NRA cannot be overstated.
Exactly. To the majority of America the NRA is representative of all law abiding gun owners.
ChattanoogaPhil
08-06-20, 17:11
The brief description of the lawsuit that I saw didn't read much different than what many NRA members have been complaining about for a long time.
Oliver North and several Board members sounded the alarm. The corruption and reckless spending was an urgent matter and given a public spotlight in early 2019. A bit late for those who did not heed the warnings to now decide this is an urgent matter. Now... it's a crisis on the path to insolvency.
Averageman
08-06-20, 17:22
Oddly enough this year my gun club quit requiring NRA Membership, now GOA membership will suffice.
Lifer here & have only been giving to NRA-ILA & Friends of NRA due to mismanagement of the general fund raising efforts...The AG might have made a statement if she went after individuals vs the whole disbanding, but I'm sure they can't help themselves. Booker is already on record blaming NRA & us members of causing gun deaths & needs to be shut down. Stupid political move & will only encourage more membership by the disbanding and will likely finally pressure the top NRA brass & members to demand accountability.
Everybody does remember that the NRA-ILA is part of the NRA right?
Like someone else said, when the GOA has the power of the NRA, then we can talk about this. Right now the NRA is the ONLY wall between what we want and what the left wants. Sure it's full of cracks and being protected by incompetents, but until we have another wall don't abandon this one.
Everybody does remember that the NRA-ILA is part of the NRA right?
Like someone else said, when the GOA has the power of the NRA, then we can talk about this. Right now the NRA is the ONLY wall between what we want and what the left wants. Sure it's full of cracks and being protected by incompetents, but until we have another wall don't abandon this one.
Friends of NRA keeps all the money raised from banquets local, at least when I was involved everything went to local ranges & ROTC's. NRA-ILA only solicits me for $$$$ regarding specific court cases & depending on where this goes, it will be interesting to see if I get something in the mail soon from them..pick our battles gents. This may be a blessing in disguise when the dust settles & don't see queen wayne getting out of this unscathed.
Everybody does remember that the NRA-ILA is part of the NRA right?
Like someone else said, when the GOA has the power of the NRA, then we can talk about this. Right now the NRA is the ONLY wall between what we want and what the left wants. Sure it's full of cracks and being protected by incompetents, but until we have another wall don't abandon this one.
We will turn our backs on whoever who disagree with and virtue signal our way into the Gulag. If the NRA was not a threat, the Marxists would not mention their name. When you lie down with the dogs, you may get fleas, but it beats dying in a sheep stampede.
Andy
I greatly respect Dr. Claude Werner, The Tactical Professor. Here is his Facebook post on the matter putting it in perspective -
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10219322222539030&id=1014481245&ref=content_filter
We will turn our backs on whoever who disagree with and virtue signal our way into the Gulag. If the NRA was not a threat, the Marxists would not mention their name. When you lie down with the dogs, you may get fleas, but it beats dying in a sheep stampede.
Andy
Or the marxists/fascists/assorted other statists could want their opponents pumping money in to a group that has a history of pimping anti gun legislation, anti gun political candidates, and blowing funding on useless to deleterious employees and sub contractors.
Evidently the NRA boosts Republican voting substantially late in the election cycle and is very, very good at it. Dems knee exactly what they were doing forcing NRA to keep money in reserve to fight this bullshit attack.
Harris on Fox said she looked into NRA membership 60 days ago & 1/3 of membership identifies as Democrat...let that sink in on how stupid the move is.
Grand58742
08-06-20, 20:55
Harris on Fox said she looked into NRA membership 60 days ago & 1/3 of membership identifies as Democrat...let that sink in on how stupid the move is.
How many sitting Democrats has the NRA endorsed in recent years? (other than that idiot from Nevada)
Follow the money. The NRA says they want to spend hundreds of millions in ad money for the upcoming election. Gee.. I WONDER if the NY ag is going to try and freeze any $$$ assets... Let's just tie up their money in court. By the time this gets litigated, the election will be over. Meanwhile, Soros and Doomberg are free to spend as much as they want.
Basically that is exactly what is going on. For everyone complaining about the doom and gloom phone calls and solicitations, I have been an NRA Life Member since 2008 and they have never contacted me.
I asked to be put on the "do not solicit" list and told them any donations would only be made to the NRA-ILA. I still get my candidate rating around election time and that doesn't bother me, the only time it did was when they had Harry Reid with an A+ rating.
If we are going to do something about Wayne, it needs to be done internally not out of our control by outsiders and those hostile to the second amendment. If we want the NRA to be more accountable, same thing.
We need to control the NRA and that is done by controlling what money they get and how it is spent. If you buy a $35 membership you won't have as much say as a Life Member. If you don't tell them to put you on a DO NOT SOLICIT list, you can't bitch that they call you.
The NRA is a money machine, they use most of that membership money to try and generate more memberships and member donations. But they only get that if you blindly donate money without stipulation, donations to the ILA can only be used for legislative purposes. But at the same time, it's a giant money machine that our enemies are afraid of, and they is why they are trying to destroy it and the timing is very good.
Right now there is a lot of people who want to get rid of Wayne and there are a lot of members who think their money isn't being wisely spent. But this is a serious case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Anyone who thinks the GOA can be the replacement NRA right now is delusional.
I love the GOA. I love that they are proactive. I love it every time they send me a legislative alert. But right now the GOA is about 2 million members, the NRA is about 5 million members but more importantly it is effectively in place. The NRA has long standing and reliable relationships with the right people.
Most of our enemies don't even know who the GOA is. And of course, if you can afford to support both groups, do that. Tell the NRA that you are a GOA member because the NRA isn't as effective as you'd like them to be so the GOA is getting money that would have otherwise gone to the NRA.
MountainRaven
08-06-20, 21:19
Maybe if the NRA had cleaned house when this stuff became public knowledge a year ago, they wouldn't have to be fighting for their very existence.
How many sitting Democrats has the NRA endorsed in recent years? (other than that idiot from Nevada)
What is your point vs NRA membership that identifies as Dems?? NRA ranks politicians based on their voting record regarding the 2nd amendment A - F & is color blind regarding party lines...my point is 33% of membership was just informed they are to be disbanded & their gun rights mean nothing & if that doesn't carry some weight along with more 1st time gun buyers in our history?? If you are a voting member your state will have rankings & yes, there are a few dems with positive rankings in texas.
Again, I don't think this move by the AG is going to have the weight some think with the whole defund the police, massive rise in gun violence in cities where gun control is rampant & proven not to work.
NRA is political org all most politicians are scum liars who say one thing do another does not matter what side or what they claim most as in not all get into it for money and power and control NRA is no different from what I have seen they just happen to be for the 2nd which really is a HUGE part of America just because they are for what half of America is for does not make them somehow great people etc...
Maybe if the NRA had cleaned house when this stuff became public knowledge a year ago, they wouldn't have to be fighting for their very existence.
Yet here we are, but here we are maybe with enough leverage to finally make some changes. Because that is better than the AGNY making changes.
If we are lucky we "might" be able to get them to do a little house cleaning without becoming new owners of the house. It would be wonderfully ironic if key leadership was removed and we were able to vote in place more effective second amendment defenders.
This was done so that the leadership of the NRA would spend time and funds to fight this rather than on ads for the election.
Assuming that Trumps wins reelection and the Republicans by some miracle take the House and Senate, the NRA has to be the New NRA.
The new NRA must have leadership that reflects real gun owners not the country club gun owners and it must set a clear agenda.
1. National Right to Carry
2. Repeal of regulations on suppressors and SBR/S
3. Repeal of the ban on new full autos for the civilian marketplace.
I kept full autos regulated for a reason, as it is a psychological gap in the public's knowledge on guns and would be damn near impossible to win at this time. But if we could open up the market again so that a full auto MP5 would cost $2700 rather than what the current market price is great.
Then once that is achieved then work on roll backs of laws at the State level .
But right away, they need to hire a firm like mine that does social engineering and psyops, they don't need a PR firm. They need a firm of former intelligence experts that have formed public opinion. An example of what is possible, we were hired by a sitting President of a country that was on his last term according to the countries Constitution, to change the Constitution so that he could run again. We got the people to approve the Constitutional changes by a wide margin, but on the day of the change our clients was running at less than 10% favorable in the polls. We had about 18 months until the election. Our client won in a landslide.
We would do what Facebook and Twitter etc are doing to people, only for good. My biggest frustration, is that I contacted someone high up in the RNC, that has known of me for years. Not interested, because he like most Republicans are too stupid to understand the tech world we live in. Fifty years from now if we are lucky everyone will understand how truly manipulative and evil the tech giants are. They are big tobacco of the 1950's.
If the NRA were to hire us today, we would start a campaign that would have the liberal marxist bitch in NY, crying that she opened Pandora's box.
This was done so that the leadership of the NRA would spend time and funds to fight this rather than on ads for the election.
Assuming that Trumps wins reelection and the Republicans by some miracle take the House and Senate, the NRA has to be the New NRA.
The new NRA must have leadership that reflects real gun owners not the country club gun owners and it must set a clear agenda.
1. Strike the Sporter Clause.
2. Strike the Sporter Clause.
3. Strike the Sporter Clause.
Made a couple changes. That is really the ONLY thing the NRA must do and if successful ALL will fall into place. It really is an end game move.
Averageman
08-07-20, 06:27
Someone needs to interview Oliver North.
Business_Casual
08-07-20, 07:29
Her theory is that since four leaders were allegedly corrupt, the entire NRA should be disbanded, correct?
Well, Obama, Comey, Biden, Rice all we’re allegedly corrupt in the fake Russian witch hunt meeting in the Oval about General Flynn, so the Democrat party should be dissolved.
I was able to get to a PC finally and off my phone- here is the Dr. Werner comment on this---
For those who are salivating over the NY AG's suit against the NRA, here's a clue.
NRA revenue (read membership dues and contributions) for 2018 - $352 Million dollars (IRS Form 990)
Second Amendment Foundation revenue for 2018 - $4.6 Million dollars (IRS Form 990)
Gun Owners of America revenue for 2018 - $4.8 Million (IRS Form 990)
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms revenue for 2018 - $1.42 Million (IRS Form 990)
Combined total of SAF, GOA, and CCRKBA - $10.8 Million (3.0 percent of NRA)
A rhesus monkey weighs more in relation to a gorilla (4%) than those three organizations combined do in relation to the NRA - National Rifle Association of America.
A capuchin monkey, the cute little spy that followed Indiana Jones around, is probably a better comparison.
Yes, I know, it's Claude with those numbery things again.
Like it, Don't like it.....those are the FACTS.....Even IF NRA was only spending 10% of it's monies for the 2A....that's still THREE TIMES WHAT ANYONE ELSE COULD SPEND!!!!
I was able to get to a PC finally and off my phone- here is the Dr. Werner comment on this---
For those who are salivating over the NY AG's suit against the NRA, here's a clue.
NRA revenue (read membership dues and contributions) for 2018 - $352 Million dollars (IRS Form 990)
Second Amendment Foundation revenue for 2018 - $4.6 Million dollars (IRS Form 990)
Gun Owners of America revenue for 2018 - $4.8 Million (IRS Form 990)
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms revenue for 2018 - $1.42 Million (IRS Form 990)
Combined total of SAF, GOA, and CCRKBA - $10.8 Million (3.0 percent of NRA)
A rhesus monkey weighs more in relation to a gorilla (4%) than those three organizations combined do in relation to the NRA - National Rifle Association of America.
A capuchin monkey, the cute little spy that followed Indiana Jones around, is probably a better comparison.
Yes, I know, it's Claude with those numbery things again.
Like it, Don't like it.....those are the FACTS.....Even IF NRA was only spending 10% of it's monies for the 2A....that's still THREE TIMES WHAT ANYONE ELSE COULD SPEND!!!!
How is spending that on Wayne's clothes, Marion's cats, and far too many anti 2nd Amendment candidates and legislation benefiting liberties though?
How is spending that on Wayne's clothes, Marion's cats, and far too many anti 2nd Amendment candidates and legislation benefiting liberties though?
As I said, if they spend EVEN 10% of their take on the 2A....it's THREE TIMES WHAT ALL THE OTHERS COMBINED COULD DO! There is no way around it, like it don't like it. THEY ARE THE ONLY REAL ORGANIZATION that has any hope of helping to preserve our rights. In the political world, David usually gets his ass pounded into the sand by Goliath.
ChattanoogaPhil
08-07-20, 09:19
Unfortunately, the NRA has little influence, power nor money.
Used to be there were many NRA A-rated democrats in congress. No more. Other than Trump, there are few republicans wiling to even whisper the words National Rifle Association. The NRA is toxic, not influential, in the halls of congress.
At the state level the NRA has near zero ability to organize gun owners nor influence state legislatures. There are endless examples, but here are a couple that are particularly glaring.
In January this year, the NRA called for all of their 5 million members to join them in Richmond Virginia for a pro-2A rally, offering free Magpul items for anyone who showed up. No one came. However, a following rally in Richmond by grassroots 2A activists turned out to be one the largest pro-2A rallies in history. NRA-ILA news refused to even mention the upcoming grassroots rally. Real pro-2A class act... not.
Marion Hammer, considered the grandmaster of NRA lobbyists, has been squashed like a palmetto bug in Florida by a republican controlled legislature with everything from age restrictions on gun purchases to red flag laws.
The NRA has no money. They have laid off hundreds of staff at Fairfax and slashed pay for the remaining staff. Last I read the Fairfax building is a line of credit borrowed against. The NRA is mired in lawsuits with their former ad agency, Ackerman McQueen and others, and have been blowing through what little revenue they have on legal fees. Behind closed doors, LaPierre characterizes the NRA as "taken down to the studs".
Some wish to believe this recently announced New York lawsuit is somehow proof that the NRA is powerful and a real threat to democrats. I don't believe that to be true. The NRA is simply a villain to be slain in the eyes of their base. Every hero needs a villain. This is why democrats characterize republicans and racists, sexist, homophobes... on and on. The villain can be real or perceived, doesn't matter.
So I guess we should just be very thankful that the NRA is spending whatever they feel like on actually protecting the Second Amendment and just give them an allowance to blow on private jets, expensive suits and God knows what else.
Or we could demand that they use the money for what it was ****ing intended for.If the dip shits at the NRA wanted to get ahead of this they could’ve completely restructured the board and kicked Wayne Lapierre in the ass so hard it still be walking funny. But they didn’t. Instead they kicked out the ones calling for change, doubling down on their corrupt ways. They could’ve fix this. They didn’t want to. So **** them andthe horse they rode in on.
So I guess we should just be very thankful that the NRA is spending whatever they feel like on actually protecting the Second Amendment and just give them an allowance to blow on private jets, expensive suits and God knows what else.
Or we could demand that they use the money for what it was ****ing intended for.If the dip shits at the NRA wanted to get ahead of this they could’ve completely restructured the board and kicked Wayne Lapierre in the ass so hard it still be walking funny. But they didn’t. Instead they kicked out the ones calling for change, doubling down on their corrupt ways. They could’ve fix this. They didn’t want to. So **** them andthe horse they rode in on.
Again, as I said, Like it, Don't like, the FACTS are what they are. It's nearly mental illness level denial to say that "Goa could do what NRA does"...No, no they can't. Period. The way forward is a fundamental reform of NRA- anything else is suicide.
“The way forward is a fundamental reform of NRA- anything else is suicide.“
If the jeopardy question was shit that’ll never happen, the answer would be fundamental change at the NRA. They’ve had numerous opportunities for fundamental change. As I stated earlier they have just double down instead of addressing the issue. All the while they continue to misuse of funds. They might as will be a junkie telling you they’re not going to shoot up anymore while they’re literally shooting up right in front of you.
As I said, if they spend EVEN 10% of their take on the 2A....it's THREE TIMES WHAT ALL THE OTHERS COMBINED COULD DO! There is no way around it, like it don't like it. THEY ARE THE ONLY REAL ORGANIZATION that has any hope of helping to preserve our rights. In the political world, David usually gets his ass pounded into the sand by Goliath.
So you figure about 10% on Pro 2nd Amendment activities, 10% on Marion, 40% on Wayne, and about 40% on anti-second Amendment candidates and support for anti-second Amendment legislation. That really explains how we got to where we are now. Thank you!
So you figure about 10% on Pro 2nd Amendment activities, 10% on Marion, 40% on Wayne, and about 40% on anti-second Amendment candidates and support for anti-second Amendment legislation. That really explains how we got to where we are now. Thank you!
How ever you want to run the numbers, it still works out the same---- 10% is more than 3 to 1 of everyone else combined. I'm sorry that's not what people want to hear, but it's REALITY. To pretend otherwise is foolish and counterproductive.
Again, as I said, Like it, Don't like, the FACTS are what they are. It's nearly mental illness level denial to say that "Goa could do what NRA does"...No, no they can't. Period. The way forward is a fundamental reform of NRA- anything else is suicide.
I don't think there is any way that GOA could do what the NRA does either because go a puts out the itemized list of incidents they base their candidate ratings on. It would same to be a difficult sell to give a candidate and a rating while showing a list of incidents where the candidate did something anti-gun 40% of the time.
I also can't see GOA a telling its members that a person had been doing anti-gun activities for 10 years, but when that person decides to run for president flip-flopping and telling the same members they need to vote for the person for president because they will mystically appoint judges that will go against everything they have done in their career prior to that date
How ever you want to run the numbers, it still works out the same---- 10% is more than 3 to 1 of everyone else combined. I'm sorry that's not what people want to hear, but it's REALITY. To pretend otherwise is foolish and counterproductive. I am well aware they spend more. It is a common complaint among state-level organizations that the NRA will come in and spend money on well-known anti-gun candidate and get them elected over a known pro-gun candidates the state-level organization has been supporting.
Voodoochild
08-07-20, 10:16
I support SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) & (FPC) Firearms Policy Coalition.
sundance435
08-07-20, 10:44
Obviously this is a blatant political move, especially in an election year. While I despise the leadership of the NRA, especially Wayne, I can't make up my mind if burning it to the ground to rebuild it is the right answer. Their appeals for money are so disgusting and hyperbolic that I'm seriously considering not renewing in the next year or two when my membership expires. It doesn't help that we've had a peak behind the curtain and seen what they're wasting our money on. The problem is, no 2A organization has anywhere the brand cachet as the NRA - the intangible power of the organization is something I don't want to throw away.
I'd be very happy if this lawsuit has the unintended consequence of getting these shitbirds out and the organization becoming stronger, but I'm not holding my breath, either.
ChattanoogaPhil
08-07-20, 10:46
Someone needs to interview Oliver North.
In June of last year, the NRA filed a lawsuit in New York against Oliver North, alleging “conduct harmful to the NRA”. At that time, North responded:
"North, in his response to the lawsuit, said he grew concerned about the NRA's spending on legal fees -- "hundreds of thousands of dollars in clothing, private jet travel, and other personal benefits" for LaPierre -- and other financial mismanagement that could jeopardize the NRA's nonprofit status."
Well... surprise surprise... a year later the NRA is in real jeopardy of losing their nonprofit status.
At the risk of repeating myself, the time for meaningful reform to avoid all this has long past. And there's nothing to indicate that LaPierre or controlling Board members have any intention of reform.
That's not to say that a few Board members haven't been screaming. Some have written scathing letters about the Board being a "cabal of cronyism" and refusing any internal investigation into alleged corruption and reckless spending among NRA leadership. Nevertheless, NRA leadership has been determined to stay the course to where they find themselves today.
I don't think there is any way that GOA could do what the NRA does either because go a puts out the itemized list of incidents they base their candidate ratings on. It would same to be a difficult sell to give a candidate and a rating while showing a list of incidents where the candidate did something anti-gun 40% of the time.
I also can't see GOA a telling its members that a person had been doing anti-gun activities for 10 years, but when that person decides to run for president flip-flopping and telling the same members they need to vote for the person for president because they will mystically appoint judges that will go against everything they have done in their career prior to that date
I"m a GOA Member. Do both. But, the NRA is still the Prime Mover in our favor, that's really all I'm saying.
According to the legal expert, IF NY was able to make this all stick, they could seize NRA funds and "divert them to 'like-minded' or 'similar' organizations" which he said would then not be a stretch to say the NRA was all about gun safety and so is "Everytown for Gun Safety" and the like...Not that I think they/NY would be able to dissolve the NRA but if they got a judge on it that thinks like sotomayor or kagan or some other nutbag, liberal with an agenda driving their decisions, who knows? The bottom line is that this is next level, evil, dirty politics. And AGAIN, where do we draw the ****ing line and march, by the millions into these people's neighborhoods, trample their gated communities, spray paint our political messages, demand our agenda be pushed or else...??
In June of last year, the NRA filed a lawsuit in New York against Oliver North, alleging “conduct harmful to the NRA”. At that time, North responded:
"North, in his response to the lawsuit, said he grew concerned about the NRA's spending on legal fees -- "hundreds of thousands of dollars in clothing, private jet travel, and other personal benefits" for LaPierre -- and other financial mismanagement that could jeopardize the NRA's nonprofit status."
Well... surprise surprise... a year later the NRA is in real jeopardy of losing their nonprofit status.
At the risk of repeating myself, the time for meaningful reform to avoid all this has long past. And there's nothing to indicate that LaPierre or controlling Board members have any intention of reform.
That's not to say that a few Board members haven't been screaming. Some have written scathing letters about the Board being a "cabal of cronyism" and refusing any internal investigation into alleged corruption and reckless spending among NRA leadership. Nevertheless, NRA leadership has been determined to stay the course to where they find themselves today.
With all the dirty laundry that has aired, it should be easy to vote in a new board and fire Wayne if that's really what everyone wants to do. Only a small number of members actually vote. SO...Who is organizing the REVOLT? If you want to do something, THAT, MIGHT ACTUALLY BE PRODUCTIVE.
I"m a GOA Member. Do both. But, the NRA is still the Prime Mover in our favor, that's really all I'm saying.
The NRA pumping 40% of the take into anti 2nd Amendment actions along with 10% in to pro 2nd actions and the paltry amount GOA puts in equals a loss. Fact.
With all the dirty laundry that has aired, it should be easy to vote in a new board and fire Wayne if that's really what everyone wants to do. Only a small number of members actually vote. SO...Who is organizing the REVOLT? If you want to do something, THAT, MIGHT ACTUALLY BE PRODUCTIVE.
Isn't that what happened last year except for the actually changing anything part?
Isn't that what happened last year except for the actually changing anything part?
They tried. It was an Ad Hoc effort at the last minute before voting was to take place. Someone needs to organize a real, concerted, serious, revolt....North, Potterfield etc...Guys with the money, name, clout etc....Establish a website, a real organization, dedicated to the effort...THAT has a good chance of working...You can't be surprised when a half assed attempt fails, yes, sometimes the Hail Mary hits, usually, not....
If it were me, here's what I would do-
Create a Website that lays out the issues. Publicize it. Find people that agree. Get them to volunteer as REFORM ADVISORS. Give them a little online training in the issues so they can actually speak intelligently and persuasively. Build a cadre of advisors in every state.
Then, have a Reform Adviser go to every gun club, in every state, that is a 100% NRA club, break it up by regions etc.... Go to their meetings, lobby their leadership. Explain to the members what the deal is. Get "captains" at each club who know the members personally, who have their own mailing lists of members they can send letters/emails to etc...The Reform Advisors can also set up booths at the Gunshows- most give free space to such endeavors, they can lobby the leadership and membership of the State Rifle Associations who also have mailing lists etc.......Have them get people to actually vote in the elections.
That should be MORE than enough votes to make a change and the "infrastructure" exists already to do it. All you would need are some Reform Advisers to go around and find sympathetic Club Leadership- and most are, they love their guns, their heritage or they wouldn't be dealing with all the bullshit that it takes to run a Gun Club- trust me, I know...and they hate what's going on but they don't know what to do, what they can do- they are leaderless.
ChattanoogaPhil
08-07-20, 11:41
With all the dirty laundry that has aired, it should be easy to vote in a new board and fire Wayne if that's really what everyone wants to do. Only a small number of members actually vote. SO...Who is organizing the REVOLT? If you want to do something, THAT, MIGHT ACTUALLY BE PRODUCTIVE.
The NRA's Board, aka "cabal of cronyism", operates a nominating committee that selects most all new Board candidates for NRA membership to vote on. So... getting an infusion of reform blood isn't as easy as some might think. Like most folks, NRA members are busy with their lives and rely on integrity among the leadership within the organizations they support. When that fails, people generally vote with their feet and wallets rather than pitchforks.
I'm thinking maybe the NY AG should first find the $900 million that Comrade Deblasio's wife made "disappear" that was supposed to go to some fund that Giuliani started BEFORE pursuing more agenda driven targets, but that's just me
The NRA's Board, aka "cabal of cronyism", operates a nominating committee that selects most all new Board candidates for NRA membership to vote on. So... getting an infusion of reform blood isn't as easy as some might think. Like most folks, NRA members are busy with their lives and rely on integrity among the leadership within the organizations they support. When that fails, people generally vote with their feet and wallets rather than pitchforks.
Which is why instead of pissing and moaning, someone who is SERIOUS about doing something, needs to pony up a few resources. I laid out a plan above. Is it perfect? HELL NO, I literally came up with it while writing it down! Is it better than bitching and moaning for Hope and Change or doing nothing? Yea, I would say so, a similar model worked for Appleseed nationally......It needs some money and organization. There are plenty of pissers and moaners who can then either put up or shut up and volunteer to reform.
They tried. It was an Ad Hoc effort at the last minute before voting was to take place. Someone needs to organize a real, concerted, serious, revolt....North, Potterfield etc...Guys with the money, name, clout etc....Establish a website, a real organization, dedicated to the effort...THAT has a good chance of working...You can't be surprised when a half assed attempt fails, yes, sometimes the Hail Mary hits, usually, not....
If it were me, here's what I would do-
Create a Website that lays out the issues. Publicize it. Find people that agree. Get them to volunteer as REFORM ADVISORS. Give them a little online training in the issues so they can actually speak intelligently and persuasively. Build a cadre of advisors in every state.
Then, have a Reform Adviser go to every gun club, in every state, that is a 100% NRA club, break it up by regions etc.... Go to their meetings, lobby their leadership. Explain to the members what the deal is. Get "captains" at each club who know the members personally, who have their own mailing lists of members they can send letters/emails to etc...The Reform Advisors can also set up booths at the Gunshows- most give free space to such endeavors, they can lobby the leadership and membership of the State Rifle Associations who also have mailing lists etc.......Have them get people to actually vote in the elections.
That should be MORE than enough votes to make a change and the "infrastructure" exists already to do it. All you would need are some Reform Advisers to go around and find sympathetic Club Leadership- and most are, they love their guns, their heritage or they wouldn't be dealing with all the bullshit that it takes to run a Gun Club- trust me, I know...and they hate what's going on but they don't know what to do, what they can do- they are leaderless.
The complaints about the NRA supporting anti 2A candidates/initiatives goes back to the 1990's at least. NRA members asking/encouraging/browbeating those who don't support that to put money in to the NRA goes back at least that far too. Members claiming getting John Doe on the board to fix the NRA anti 2A moves goes back at least that far.
Anyone elected to the board had to be aware that cleaning up the mess is a decades old wish so if it was ad hoc then the ad hoc was by choice.
Potterfield pumps loads of cash in to the NRA SO apparently he doesn't want anything changed.
North supported the semi auto ban so apparently he has no problems with anti 2nd Amendment moves and as such no reason to want them changed either.
The complaints about the NRA supporting anti 2A candidates/initiatives goes back to the 1990's at least. NRA members asking/encouraging/browbeating those who don't support that to put money in to the NRA goes back at least that far too. Members claiming getting John Doe on the board to fix the NRA anti 2A moves goes back at least that far.
Anyone elected to the board had to be aware that cleaning up the mess is a decades old wish so if it was ad hoc then the ad hoc was by choice.
Potterfield pumps loads of cash in to the NRA SO apparently he doesn't want anything changed.
North supported the semi auto ban so apparently he has no problems with anti 2nd Amendment moves and as such no reason to want them changed either.
Then I guess we are fooked. I'll take my marbles and go home now.
Which is why instead of pissing and moaning, someone who is SERIOUS about doing something, needs to pony up a few resources. I laid out a plan above. Is it perfect? HELL NO, I literally came up with it while writing it down! Is it better than bitching and moaning for Hope and Change or doing nothing? Yea, I would say so, a similar model worked for Appleseed nationally......It needs some money and organization. There are plenty of pissers and moaners who can then either put up or shut up and volunteer to reform.
Sometimes the old, crumbling edifices must be demolished, so something new and useful can be erected in their place. At this point I have given up on the NRA, because they've done nothing but give up on me for decades. All the money, voting and complaints fell on deaf ears, so I lost hope.
If someone with billionaire money and major clout in the firearms industry wants to take on the project of renovating the NRA from the ground up and without any participation from Wayne LaPierre and anyone he's ever associated with, more power to them. That ain't me and I'm not supporting LaPierre's suit budget with one more dime.
Where can the bizarre claim that 40 percent of the NRA take is directed toward anti 2A causes be substantiated?
Sounds more like someone foaming at the mouth, truthfully. Rather seems s like someone convincing themselves the NRA was the worst thing that ever happened to gun ownership ever.
Perspective much?
ChattanoogaPhil
08-07-20, 13:24
Sometimes the old, crumbling edifices must be demolished, so something new and useful can be erected in their place. At this point I have given up on the NRA, because they've done nothing but give up on me for decades. All the money, voting and complaints fell on deaf ears, so I lost hope.
This reflects the sentiments of many NRA members, past and present, that I personally know. Sometimes when reputations like this are earned over a period of time they simply cannot be repaired.
Disgusting beginnings of all this when the current AG in NY was campaigning on "getting Trump and the NRA." Nothing like picking a political enemy, attaining a powerful position and then searching for a crime...Just horrific that we've sunk to this point in our republic.
Diamondback
08-11-20, 11:33
Disgusting beginnings of all this when the current AG in NY was campaigning on "getting Trump and the NRA." Nothing like picking a political enemy, attaining a powerful position and then searching for a crime...Just horrific that we've sunk to this point in our republic.
Indeed. The Democrats ar not the party of Jefferson and Jackson, but that of Stalin and Beria. "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime."
Disgusting beginnings of all this when the current AG in NY was campaigning on "getting Trump and the NRA." Nothing like picking a political enemy, attaining a powerful position and then searching for a crime...Just horrific that we've sunk to this point in our republic.
Can you imagine if, in 2012, the TX AG campaigned on “getting Hussein” if elected?
The NRA is based in VA, not NY. Where does the NY attorney general have jurisdiction?
This is not a shot across the bow, this is a tactical nuke inbound. If the NRA is taken down, the left will have free reign to take everything to include the Fudd guns. The GOA is awesome, but lacks the clout.
Glad you mentioned that as I was and am confused how they have any jurisdiction there at all. Of course just as no one sold more guns than Obama, that moron in NY has no idea what a boon to NRA memberships that will have. Derp.
Diamondback
08-11-20, 11:53
Glad you mentioned that as I was and am confused how they have any jurisdiction there at all.
Will, it's simple: It's not where your HQ is located, it's where your incorporation papers are filed. Frenchy Fudd could relo to the dark side of the Moon and as long as the charter is still registered in NY the NRA remains subject to NY jurisdiction.
While I appreciate the New York Attorney General looking out for me I really don’t want or need his help.
With that said the NRA is a joke. Maybe if it is dissolved GOA Will fill that void and take note to not misuse funds.Either way I could really care less, they will not be getting another dime for me.
The NRA is mostly a joke and the progressive D bags sense they don't have the teeth or the clout they had and are going into attack mode in hopes of scoring points, but I suspect it will backfire badly (per usual) as NRA membership explodes and do due the actions of the derpa derps in NYC, hand back much of the $ and clout they may have lost. I may have lost a lot of faith in the NRA, but I will re up my long ended membership so they can fight with those D bags in NYC.
Will, it's simple: It's not where your HQ is located, it's where your incorporation papers are filed. Frenchy Fudd could relo to the dark side of the Moon and as long as the charter is still registered in NY the NRA remains subject to NY jurisdiction.
My bad on that, yes, I didn't look into that. When I heard of it, I figures they had their corp in NY from many moons ago but didn't look it up.
**** the NRA. Let it burn.
GOA for the win.
The NRA did this to themselves- used to be an organization feared by the left. Now they’re a joke and getting punched up by bullies like retards on the playground. If NY can sue the NRA for malfeasance, why can’t Oklahoma sue Planned Parenthood for selling dead baby parts? The double standard and hypocrisy are so blatant it’s almost funny now.
The NRA if it wants to remain relevant they must remove Wayne and the others, and replace them with hard core gun guys that want to build the NRA into a powerhouse. They need to get with the times and fire who ever they use for PR, and replace them with people that understand social engineering of social media, psyops and turn the NRA into the most popular civil rights organization in the USA. Which would also build the membership up from the 5.5 million that it is today, to 15 to 20,000,000.
Caps must be put on salaries, I am not talking 35k a year, I have no problem with salaries of up to 750k, if the people are doing the job correctly. No more private Jets, business class will do.
NRA must push gun rights for all and get involved in rolling back bad gun laws on the Federal, State and local level. It will take time, but in time, it will get to the point where when a major city pushes new gun control the NRA can bring such pressure on politicians they will back down.
What does pressure mean?
Social media campaign against the people expose them. Then have the dirty tricks agency dig up the dirt on politicians and let them know these facts will be used as part of the campaign against them.
Fight hard and dirty to keep our rights, for they are.
MountainRaven
08-13-20, 09:17
Wayne LaPierre says:
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PertinentPepperyAtlanticspadefish-size_restricted.gif
"I am the NRA!"
The_War_Wagon
08-13-20, 11:59
This is not a shot across the bow, this is a tactical nuke inbound.
Nope. It's more like the mohammedan monkeys in Iran, trying to hammer a detonator into place ON a nuke. :rolleyes:
To pull this crap in an election year, will sink MANY a demtard at the polls. ALL those years of the NRA warnings, have come to fruition by this one amateur. The NRA couldn't get positive publicity like this, if Charlton Heston came back from the dead.
The NRA if it wants to remain relevant they must remove Wayne and the others, and replace them with hard core gun guys that want to build the NRA into a powerhouse. They need to get with the times and fire who ever they use for PR, and replace them with people that understand social engineering of social media, psyops and turn the NRA into the most popular civil rights organization in the USA. Which would also build the membership up from the 5.5 million that it is today, to 15 to 20,000,000.
Caps must be put on salaries, I am not talking 35k a year, I have no problem with salaries of up to 750k, if the people are doing the job correctly. No more private Jets, business class will do.
NRA must push gun rights for all and get involved in rolling back bad gun laws on the Federal, State and local level. It will take time, but in time, it will get to the point where when a major city pushes new gun control the NRA can bring such pressure on politicians they will back down.
What does pressure mean?
Social media campaign against the people expose them. Then have the dirty tricks agency dig up the dirt on politicians and let them know these facts will be used as part of the campaign against them.
Fight hard and dirty to keep our rights, for they are.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200813/2ced26137fe1f2d876cc35c6e6bee838.jpg
I mean THIS is their PR blitz
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From our cold dead hands you will pry our keys to the private jets and the multi million dollar a year salary.
But concerning your guns we don't care about what you the gun owners of today care about.
Then you can rot, and die NRA.
Diamondback
08-13-20, 14:17
Nope. It's more like the mohammedan monkeys in Iran, trying to hammer a detonator into place ON a nuke. :rolleyes:
To pull this crap in an election year, will sink MANY a demtard at the polls. ALL those years of the NRA warnings, have come to fruition by this one amateur. The NRA couldn't get positive publicity like this, if Charlton Heston came back from the dead.
That's what worries me, the external pressures to Rally Round will also cause people to ignore or dismiss the need to Clean House.
What has the nra gotten done in the last 15 years? Name one unconstitutional law they’ve gotten rolled back. Just one.
Then look at what calguns and saf has gotten done. They’re fighting for our rights while the rope sucker Wayne is flying around on a private jet.
Not to mention Wayne is a registered dem.
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