View Full Version : I want a 9mm 1911. I thought I wanted an STI until...
Eurodriver
08-09-20, 09:48
I have been reaching out to folks to try and answer that question and I’m only more confused. Some things I’ve heard are that guns like Nighthawk and Chambers are better and Staccato P’s are mag finicky and have problems. P’s are gamer guns. Etc.
First, I’m generally not one to fixate on price. I know you get what you pay for and if it’s what I need then that’s the price to pay. But I don’t know enough about any of these guns to understand why a Staccato P is $1999 and a Nighthawk or Chambers is on the wrong side of $5000. To me, it’s like I can have a $65,000 BMW which is very nice or a $280,000 Lamborghini which is of course nicer but completely unnecessary.
Second, Chambers lists a 36-48 MONTH lead time for builds. Even if this is for a truly custom gun that I won’t be buying, any company that lists 4 years for build times is a huge red flag. That’s insane and completely laughable. Are these guys searching the earth for the iron to pull directly out of the ground with which to forge my frame? Nah. The Empire State Building was made in less than two years. Hell we were only at war with Nazi Germany for 42 months!
Third, and this is a me problem, but I would probably still carry a Glock. I of course want any gun I buy to run 100% but the differential in accuracy a 1911 provides isn’t making up for the weight and muscle memory penalties. So, is a $5k gun that can’t be used at night or shoot 1,000 yards really necessary?
Help me.
Sincerely,
A Glock fanboy who is growing up.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fa69jDvS1tKKgE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1
Chambers sources Tamahagane directly from Japan for his guns.
: )
The second Gen STI Mags are totally GTG. You’re hearing complaints on the first Gen mags.
Custom guns are expensive and the best smiths have a tremendous backlog.
Look for a used gun- try 1911Addicts classifieds.
or
Buy a Wilson/Nighthawk/whatever.
or
Buy a DW. They’re GTG with a lower price point and little, if any MIM.
Personally, I'd get a Wilson and be done with it. Which 1911 and in what config you get depends on what you plan to do with it. Me, I was someone who was all about 1911as, and CCWd a government 1911 for a decade plus, who went to polymer wonder pistols when for me, "the math" favoring the 1911 just didn't hold up anymore.
But, a high end 1911 is a beautiful thing if that's where you wanna drop some $.
Finally, I'd add that between high end 1911's and Glocks, there's a lot of choices out there today.
I felt like a commie for the few months I didn’t have a 1911 but got tired of buying .45 for one gun so I sold it and bought a 9mm one. As badly as I wanted a Gucci one, I’m glad I got a cheap SA RO Elite Operator. It was about $1k and Wilson’s 9mm single stack mags have a good reputation and are reasonable in cost.
It’s really just a toy or nostalgia piece for me. I shoot my Glocks 99% of the time so anymore money would really have been a waste. But I’m glad I have one - that and the M1 are my only guns in that category now and they spend months at a time in the safe, if not more.
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For carry? I'd consider aluminum-framed pistols, takes your unloaded weight from 40-42 oz, down to around 30.
DW TCP
DW ECP
Vigil Commander
DW Specialist Commander (this one is steel frame)
Or....
C&S
Wilson (also worth giving the EDX X9 a look)
PracticalRifleman
08-09-20, 10:27
If you’d ever hand fit a 1911, it isn’t uncommon to spend 60-80 hours on one. Throw on top of that machining all the slides and small parts from blanks, then send-outs for finishing, it really isn’t a fast process. When you’re one of the best in the business, you’re going to get a back log.
You can get a Nighthawk or Wilson for less than 5k if you’re wanting a 1911...I think any Nighthawk you can make a 2011 for $650. I believe $350 for a dot mount if that’s your thing.
On STIs, errrr....Staccatos, they are under new ownership and have new tooling. They are making a hard push into the “tactical” realm hiring brand ambassadors and doing the big social media push. Claims are they’ve greatly improved, especially with tooling for the new mags. In fact, they have dropped many of the gamer models from their line. Are they any good? I’ve seen complaints on several forums and those claiming to have problems with them, but that’s anecdotal at best.
The late-production STI guns were a joke at the gun games and most claimed they needed to go to a gunsmith after purchase to be tuned.
On Gen 2 magazines, many report that they do run....how much is first hand or regurgitating what has been said by brand ambassadors? I do not know. Shooting USPSA there have been a few guys that purchased the Gen 2 magazines and they just didn’t run without tuning in their 2011s. Maybe they do run in factory Staccatos. I cannot say.
I was close to pulling the trigger on one myself a few months back, even had a friend that could get me an industry discount. He bought one and he just wasn’t that impressed. He complained it was heavier than a Glock to the point he hated carrying it, on most drills he wasn’t any faster or more accurate than a Glock. It made him get lazy on recoil control (combination of grip angle and weight), and finally he decided the only advantage for him was B8s at 25.
I started with 1911s but no longer have much interest in a .45 ACP due to recoil, training cost, etc, but I do find myself very interested in a Dan Wesson single-stack in 9mm.
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1911’s are iconic. Owning one at least is part of any collection; if you aren’t a collector, your criteria change.
If you’re just looking for a 1911, the usual names are Wilson and Nighthawk. But Ed Brown makes a very nice weapon, for reasonable price point. They are currently selling an EVO model for about $2200. I have on. It is not as light as a Glock, but it is very nice to shoot. Indeed, it is one of my more fun guns at the range. Shoots 9mm, so easier on “gas and brakes” so to speak. About the only thing I don’t like about it is that it does not relieve tension of the recoil spring when you take it down; I consider that a PITA. I also had a larger mag release and safety put on it, but that’s me.
Euro-
I’d encourage you to shoot a Staccato before dropping that kind of coin on one.
Couple things;
The post above refers to “late STIs” having fitment issues. I can sign off on that.
Our small group has 7 of last years/2019 guns.
6 of those had marginal to poor barrel fit and 5 had exceptionally poor extractor install, like failure to function poor.
While all of these were fairly simple fixes, it shouldn’t have been necessary with the guns in question ranging from 2K to 4K.
One of the guys has a new Duo. I checked it out for him and saw no concerns, this would support Staccato having tightened up their QC, but is obviously a sample of ONE.
Another issue is grip size.
If you have manly (normal/large) hands its a moot point.
If you have medium or small hands, the grip is gonna be on the outside of controllable.
Even with these caveats and personally owning several custom and an idiotic number of semi customs; my STIs are the pistols I shoot 95% of the time.
20/27 rds trumps 10/11 rds.
Regarding chambers 3-4 year wait, that is not at all unusual for custom 1911 smiths of known quality. A bunch of really skilled smiths are not even taking orders anymore and have similar wait times.
If you want a basic single stack 1911 there are plenty of 1k ish price range pistols out there
Several quality semi customs like Wilson les Baer and others in the 2500-3500 range if you want something a touch more refined.
Eurodriver
08-09-20, 11:31
Regarding chambers 3-4 year wait, that is not at all unusual for custom 1911 smiths of known quality. A bunch of really skilled smiths are not even taking orders anymore and have similar wait times.
If you want a basic single stack 1911 there are plenty of 1k ish price range pistols out there
Several quality semi customs like Wilson les Baer and others in the 2500-3500 range if you want something a touch more refined.
Do these companies allow you to pay to skip the line? Like if I give an extra $1k can I have it in a month?
I’m not waiting 4 years for anything. Shit, I’ve never even been with the same girl for 4 years! :)
Eurodriver
08-09-20, 11:32
Euro-
I’d encourage you to shoot a Staccato before dropping that kind of coin on one.
Couple things;
The post above refers to “late STIs” having fitment issues. I can sign off on that.
Our small group has 7 of last years/2019 guns.
6 of those had marginal to poor barrel fit and 5 had exceptionally poor extractor install, like failure to function poor.
While all of these were fairly simple fixes, it shouldn’t have been necessary with the guns in question ranging from 2K to 4K.
One of the guys has a new Duo. I checked it out for him and saw no concerns, this would support Staccato having tightened up their QC, but is obviously a sample of ONE.
Another issue is grip size.
If you have manly (normal/large) hands its a moot point.
If you have medium or small hands, the grip is gonna be on the outside of controllable.
Even with these caveats and personally owning several custom and an idiotic number of semi customs; my STIs are the pistols I shoot 95% of the time.
20/27 rds trumps 10/11 rds.
If I got a 2020 version Staccato P what would you say the likelihood of me getting a 100% functional gun is?
I just know so little - I literally don't even know what I don't know about 1911s.
People talking about Wilson, Ed Brown, Nighthawk. These names might as well be gibberish.
Eurodriver
08-09-20, 13:02
What about the WC EDC X9?
What about the WC WDC X9?
If you're thinking EDC X9, yeah that's the one I meant, it's here: https://www.wilsoncombat.com/edc-x9/
1911 goodness and trigger, but in a modernized, hi-cap design that sort of improves on the errr, quirks in the original design (heresy, I know). For example: no grip safety. About the size of a G19. And immediately available.
Nightstalker865
08-09-20, 13:14
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200809/8592f55a5d9730eedbe8cb941bccec01.jpg
The Wilson EDC-X9, should be high on your list. Phenomenal guns for sure.
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In short, I’d buy a Wilson Combat and be done with it.
I had the Stacatto-P bug until a VERY well known firearms instructor purchased one and reported that they don’t run hollow points with the larger capacity magazines. I was bummed.
I see a Wilson Combat 1911 9MM with that same instructor’s signature on the slide in the near future.
What about the WC WDC X9?
Good to go. One of the pups EDC one.
In short, I’d buy a Wilson Combat and be done with it.
I had the Stacatto-P bug until a VERY well known firearms instructor purchased one and reported that they don’t run hollow points with the larger capacity magazines. I was bummed.
I see a Wilson Combat 1911 9MM with that same instructor’s signature on the slide in the near future.
I shot 124 +P GDs and HSTs out of both of mine this AM (and have for months) using fully loaded 20 rd mags, so....
Never been a problem, but again, these are Gen 2 mags.
Assuming you plan to carry this and not use just for comps or range toy, if buying today, personally I'd get one of these three options. All of which are production guns and available.
1. One of the aluminum-framed Dan Wesson commander models I listed above. The TCP if you want a rail.
2. The EDC X9, if you want to slightly depart from the standard 1911 design and get a few modern updates, plus 15rd mags.
3. A Wilson Combat or Cylinder & Slide aluminum-framed LW 9mm. Like this one (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/ultralight-carry-compact/), or this one (https://cylinder-slide.com/Item/0042). The last is probably what I'd personally get, if I didn't already have my steel-framed C&S commander.
ETA: For what it's worth Euro, was looking at a recent email from John Harrison (one of the leading 1911 custom gunsmiths with a backlog going out 5 years). I had asked his opinion of quality LW 1911 commanders, he said: "I have a Wilson Combat Hackathorn Special (Ken is a buddy) in the LW Commander format in 9mm and I like it a lot. It’s been a flawless performer." So that's a pretty good endorsement of the LW Wilson commanders.
https://qbg52w.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mpekHnHYHdO5zW9JLrEraKs1IrE1Htp9AZxwYlF0Qfl6yWKLMTQH2g6X4wjkrynpZ1BzlZrrcZ3OMZPcyGX92nBWJCaoewoHmQD5xbpSFmk74Rr-0e-vH8d9DQAsPM4t6V-eZOFYgOocjmPFx0EFVVzApl0BUKGrD539hOhmkBRhJaIDDJcr2gXSEKiKCQRGRY-iTkWrFccuPEcLrzYUvcA?width=1024&height=763&cropmode=none
Wilson combat and be done with it. They are amazing weapons. This is from a wc but in 45acp at 25 yards 5 shots. That gun just flat runs. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200810/df19c589d0b38d0d03b6d4021a4dfc40.jpg
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What about the WC EDC X9?
I'd take that over the STI product any day and what I would get if I wanted the best of both worlds of the double stack high cap 9mm with the 1911 trigger and such, but it's not a 1911 either.
The X9 is an awesome shooting pistol. It screams “Go fast!” And is super accurate. It uses Walther PPQ (Mecgar) Magazines. It’s only issue is it’s a bit heavy.
If you are interested in the Staccato line I would watch the Sage Dynamics videos on the XC and the P. Also Hilton Yamm of 10-8 Performance had his videos on the line and the older ones as comparison. Chambers works alone so that back log is from one guy building these guns by him self and this is common among 1911 smiths, as step down from that would be Nighthawk which your gun will be fit and assembled by one person and by hand. Wilson, Baer and Brown will have more poduction line type building with more hand fitting than your Dan Wessons and upper Colt/Springfield lines. If you are just looking to get a 9mm 1911 to mess around with Dan Wesson or slightly cheaper and Springfield will do just fine. If it has to be double stack I would check out 1911 addicts for a used staccato. The Staccatos are nice and the money is there kind of I think they are a bit over priced and they manage their product line like SIG which bothers me more than anything else.
MountainRaven
08-10-20, 13:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIZlV3NHHOc
I am stalking the Staccato line as well. I have my eyes on the XE. I have too many 1911's and plan on selling a couple to fund my XE fever. I love 1911's and have NHC Heinne edition and SA Pro guns....TRP's. For tradational 1911's the NHC or cheaper SA TRP are good to go. And for tradational 1911's chambered in 9mm, they shoot amazing but you still only have 10 rd capacity.
For 9mm double stacks, the Custom guns are so damn pricy. For the cheap mans double stack 1911 go shoot Sig Legion 226/229 with RDS option and they run like Glocks. One day I will get a STI P or XE model and learn for myself.
PB
Any/all 2011 pistols can have magazine issues. It’s the nature of the beast. Doesn’t matter if you spend $2k or $5k. For the money the STI Staccato looks good on paper. The only thing close, is the coming soon DWX. Some of the guns you are referencing are either semi custom or full custom guns. That’s the why the price difference. And when you get in to full custom race guns 2011s... sky is the limit. For $4k Nighthawk hasn’t had enough experience in the 2011 game to make me buy one... yet. I’ve handled and shot their 2011 TRS full-size and Firehawk... and own several of their 1911s. Go to the range and rent one if possible and try to make some comparisons. These are not Glocks and will require more TLC.
If any of these guns we’re discussing were actually as good as YouTube and the marketing gurus want you to believe you’d be seeing them on podiums, not forums. The EDCX9 has the ergos of a snow globe. It is the Toyota Tacoma of pistols. It does nothing particularly well.
The Staccatto P’s I have seen in competitions run flawlessly, but so does my Glock 34 and every G17. I don’t see enough of a improvement on the clock or practiscore to warrant buying one.
WC 1911’s don’t even include their bulletproof slide release.
I’d be looking at any Springfield Armory 9mm- maybe a Professional(Autistic Screeching) or a Stainless Dan Wesson Specialist Commander. They are beautiful, all steel, no mim, and run like a sewing machine. The TCP is very cool, but the lack of holster options turn me off.
I was close to pulling the trigger on one myself a few months back, even had a friend that could get me an industry discount. He bought one and he just wasn’t that impressed. He complained it was heavier than a Glock to the point he hated carrying it, on most drills he wasn’t any faster or more accurate than a Glock. It made him get lazy on recoil control (combination of grip angle and weight), and finally he decided the only advantage for him was B8s at 25.
Lol what? So the gun is mechanically more accurate and easier to shoot well at distance (which matters) as evidenced by B8s but he wasn’t any better with it than a Glock. This should tell you he’s not that advanced of a shooter.
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So your buddy admittedly shot the staccato better at distance (which is hugely important metric) as evidenced by said B8s.
But then works to pull off mediocre performance across other metrics. That’s what happens when ones skills are not as good as they think they are. That has zero to do do with the gun.
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Nightstalker865
08-10-20, 23:42
If any of these guns we’re discussing were actually as good as YouTube and the marketing gurus want you to believe you’d be seeing them on podiums, not forums. The EDCX9 has the ergos of a snow globe. It is the Toyota Tacoma of pistols. It does nothing particularly well.
The Staccatto P’s I have seen in competitions run flawlessly, but so does my Glock 34 and every G17. I don’t see enough of a improvement on the clock or practiscore to warrant buying one.
WC 1911’s don’t even include their bulletproof slide release.
I’d be looking at any Springfield Armory 9mm- maybe a Professional(Autistic Screeching) or a Stainless Dan Wesson Specialist Commander. They are beautiful, all steel, no mim, and run like a sewing machine. The TCP is very cool, but the lack of holster options turn me off.
Wilson switched to full bulletproof parts on their builds a few years ago. All tool steel parts these days.
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Wilson switched to full bulletproof parts on their builds a few years ago. All tool steel parts these days.
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For what they charge I’ll take a Professional with a cooler pedigree.
In short, I’d buy a Wilson Combat and be done with it.
I had the Stacatto-P bug until a VERY well known firearms instructor purchased one and reported that they don’t run hollow points with the larger capacity magazines. I was bummed.
I see a Wilson Combat 1911 9MM with that same instructor’s signature on the slide in the near future.
If you’re not willing to name drop this is absolutely of no value to anyone. Full stop.
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If you are interested in the Staccato line I would watch the Sage Dynamics videos on the XC and the P. Also Hilton Yamm of 10-8 Performance had his videos on the line and the older ones as comparison. Chambers works alone so that back log is from one guy building these guns by him self and this is common among 1911 smiths, as step down from that would be Nighthawk which your gun will be fit and assembled by one person and by hand. Wilson, Baer and Brown will have more poduction line type building with more hand fitting than your Dan Wessons and upper Colt/Springfield lines. If you are just looking to get a 9mm 1911 to mess around with Dan Wesson or slightly cheaper and Springfield will do just fine. If it has to be double stack I would check out 1911 addicts for a used staccato. The Staccatos are nice and the money is there kind of I think they are a bit over priced and they manage their product line like SIG which bothers me more than anything else.
Chambers has 2 or 3 other guys in his shop now building.
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Defaultmp3
08-11-20, 00:33
Dan Wesson DWX is another metal framed SAO double stack option: https://danwessonfirearms.com/product/dwx/
https://danwessonfirearms.com/ourquality/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/19e_DWX-L-1100px.png
A 4 year lead time is pretty long... but there are guys out there that had that kind of lead time even in the early 1990s, before the advent of Internet exposure, and some haven't even taken on any new orders for years, simply because they've recognized the fact that they're likely to die before they can clear even their current backlog (thinking of Richard Heinie).
Why can't a 1911 be used at night?
Nightstalker865
08-11-20, 06:59
For what they charge I’ll take a Professional with a cooler pedigree.
While I absolutely love the SA Pro’s, I hate that they still use non tool steel components. They are obviously well made and are extremely reliable/durable. Yet at ~$3100 these days, it makes them hard to choose over a Wilson or Nighthawk.
I don’t fault anyone for buying one though, as you say, their pedigree is hard to argue with. Plus, they are absolutely beautiful!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200811/0d96c05ce6251f9268cf58395486636e.jpg
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BigTex2000
08-11-20, 07:54
Has anyone ever shot the Wilson double stack "experior" pistols?
If you’re not willing to name drop this is absolutely of no value to anyone. Full stop.
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Voda Edition CQB. I’ve seen the prototypes.
PracticalRifleman
08-11-20, 09:57
So your buddy admittedly shot the staccato better at distance (which is hugely important metric) as evidenced by said B8s.
But then works to pull off mediocre performance across other metrics. That’s what happens when ones skills are not as good as they think they are. That has zero to do do with the gun.
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Yeah because shooting a 96 is so much more important than shooting a 93 or 94....
Just lay off. You don’t know what you don’t know.
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Voda Edition CQB. I’ve seen the prototypes.
See? That wouldn’t have been so difficult the first time around then.
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Yeah because shooting a 96 is so much more important than shooting a 93 or 94....
Just lay off. You don’t know what you don’t know.
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Neat.
Who knew shooting better is never always a good thing.
Considering Euro’s history on here of both dropping and seeking relevant knowledge on shooting related matters it would seem a given weapons capability is absolutely relevant to the discussion at hand and I’m willing to be these are things he wants to know
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PracticalRifleman
08-11-20, 10:34
Neat.
Who knew shooting better is never always a good thing.
Considering Euro’s history on here of both dropping and seeking relevant knowledge on shooting related matters it would seem a given weapons capability is absolutely relevant to the discussion at hand and I’m willing to be these are things he wants to know
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Is it the weapon’s performance or is it easier to shoot? Those 3 pts better average comes at, as I said weight, bulk, expense, and possibly reliability. If B8s are the only metric, then there is a minor advantage at least in that shooter’s hands. In other metrics, such and 6r6, El Pres, etc there was no advantage.
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Is it the weapon’s performance or is it easier to shoot? Those 3 pts better average comes at, as I said weight, bulk, expense, and possibly reliability. If B8s are the only metric, then there is a minor advantage at least in that shooter’s hands. In other metrics, such and 6r6, El Pres, etc there was no advantage.
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You’re back peddling.
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PracticalRifleman
08-11-20, 11:04
You’re back peddling.
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No, I’m not.
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Eurodriver
08-11-20, 18:47
I bought a Staccato P.
I bought a Staccato P.
Cool, hit us up with range report after you dump a nice lot of ammo.
PB
Eurodriver
08-11-20, 19:04
Cool, hit us up with range report after you dump a nice lot of ammo.
PB
Will do.
I bought a Staccato P.
Congrats on your pistol--+1 on a range report. And pics please.
I still think someday you're gonna want to try a classic single-stack 1911 too. Nothing wrong with having both--except for the hit to the budget. :dance3:
Nightstalker865
08-12-20, 04:17
I bought a Staccato P.
Did you end up going with one of the 2020 production models?
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Eurodriver
08-12-20, 04:30
Did you end up going with one of the 2020 production models?
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Yes I did.
Eurodriver
08-12-20, 04:31
Cool, hit us up with range report after you dump a nice lot of ammo.
PB
For sure. Just hoping it runs smoothly.
I really wanted a 9mm 2011, and the Staccato seemed like the only way to go until I got to Nighthawk ($5,000) money.
For that kind of price, I can literally buy a Staccato, throw it in the garbage, buy another one, throw that in the garbage too, and still be $1,000 better off. :jester:
Eurodriver
08-12-20, 04:32
Congrats on your pistol--+1 on a range report. And pics please.
I still think someday you're gonna want to try a classic single-stack 1911 too. Nothing wrong with having both--except for the hit to the budget. :dance3:
Absolutely. A twin turbo charged V6 is cool, but everyone's gotta have a naturally aspirated V8 as well ;)
Well done Euro.
Does the "new"/2020 version come with the Dawson "Tool Less" guide rod?
I would imagine it does, they are nice for ease of detail strip/take down.
Look forward to your impressions.
Nightstalker865
08-12-20, 07:25
Yes I did.
Congrats. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.
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MountainRaven
08-12-20, 15:02
Well done Euro.
Does the "new"/2020 version come with the Dawson "Tool Less" guide rod?
I would imagine it does, they are nice for ease of detail strip/take down.
Look forward to your impressions.
It does.
Colt Carson
08-13-20, 08:51
I carry polymer guns or small metal frame guns, but for me no pistol is as enjoyable to shoot at the range as a 1911.
sundance435
08-14-20, 10:41
For sure. Just hoping it runs smoothly.
I really wanted a 9mm 2011, and the Staccato seemed like the only way to go until I got to Nighthawk ($5,000) money.
For that kind of price, I can literally buy a Staccato, throw it in the garbage, buy another one, throw that in the garbage too, and still be $1,000 better off. :jester:
There wasn't much feedback on the 2020s when I bought my Staccato P, but it had everything I wanted at a price I could live with. Mine wasn't without some minor teething issues in the first couple hundred rounds (I had not cleaned it after purchase - a Glock in that sense it is not), but it's been flawless since...with one caveat - every once in a great while, from SLIDELOCK ONLY, the first round of the next mag will nosedive. I don't consider it a big issue and I've never even tried to narrow it down to certain mags, because I've never had the issue while slingshotting the slide. Besides that, it's more accurate than me and has the softest recoil/allows the fastest follow ups of any 9mm I've owned. I'm considering the C2 to replace some Glocks.
Whoever previously said it's heavier than a Glock...uhhh yeah, it's solid steel with 3 more rounds in the most common mags for it.
hotrodder636
08-16-20, 02:50
Interested in reading your review/thoughts on the gun.
What are you guys running for mags? Factory STI with/without Upgraded springs?
Or is it just worth shoveling the cash out for MBX?
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The Gen 2 STI mags are GTG JP.
I have a dozen I’ve run 15K rds through with no issues.
The MBX, while probably the Gold Standard, haven’t been necessary.
My experience mirrors gaijin in number of mags, round count, and results. The Gen 2 mags are solid.
The Gen 2 STI mags are GTG JP.
I have a dozen I’ve run 15K rds through with no issues.
The MBX, while probably the Gold Standard, haven’t been necessary.
Good copy.
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Eurodriver
08-19-20, 17:44
https://i.ibb.co/NxdStft/369-C4545-521-D-4-EC7-8-B42-D33-E3-CEA84-B5.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/FB2qfK0/90608-AA7-AC14-47-A2-8682-FAAC236297-B6.jpg
I don’t like to review guns til I’ve shot them (the proof is in the B8). First impressions are good. The two 20rd OEM baseplates (the one pictured was bought direct from STI by me) are purple I think is the only “flaw” I can find cosmetically.
I did Hilton Yam’s feedramp test and it functioned well with 115gr ball. Will bring 115&124 ball and 147gr GDHPs to the range in a few days.
I like the sights. Grip feels great. Trigger is nice but may lighten it a tiny bit after shooting a bit.
Haha... colt purple.
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Good looking pistol.
“Plum”, not purple. : )
Good looking pistol.
“Plum”, not purple. : )
Russian collusionists will be triggered by this
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contax_shooter
08-19-20, 19:20
https://i.ibb.co/NxdStft/369-C4545-521-D-4-EC7-8-B42-D33-E3-CEA84-B5.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/FB2qfK0/90608-AA7-AC14-47-A2-8682-FAAC236297-B6.jpg
I don’t like to review guns til I’ve shot them (the proof is in the B8). First impressions are good. The two 20rd OEM baseplates (the one pictured was bought direct from STI by me) are purple I think is the only “flaw” I can find cosmetically.
I did Hilton Yam’s feedramp test and it functioned well with 115gr ball. Will bring 115&124 ball and 147gr GDHPs to the range in a few days.
I like the sights. Grip feels great. Trigger is nice but may lighten it a tiny bit after shooting a bit.
We want a table top unboxing, first impressions review on the gun and to regurgitate OEM website information we could read ourselves like Mr. Clean does.
We want a table top unboxing, first impressions review on the gun and to regurgitate OEM website information we could read ourselves like Mr. Clean does.
Bonus points for broken down vlog in the hood
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MountainRaven
08-19-20, 20:55
https://media1.tenor.com/images/be060dfd264ceb77e7f5db287c122b64/tenor.gif?itemid=9682461
I have a 2019 gen 2 STI staccato P Duo.... one of the earlier ones after they switched from the Tree bark grip module frame to the one with the star grips but before they came out with the 2020 models with the tool less take down the slightly longer barrel etc.
Take my below experience for whatever value you get out of it.
I purchased it along with two Gen 2 17 round mags and 4 Gen 2 20 Rounders. I primarily shoot 147 gr. Federal hollowpoints through it.
I carry this as an LE agency approved off duty gun.
When I first got it, it had issues chambering the first round from slide lock.
If I racked the slide from a closed slide it loaded and chambered the first round fine.
But if I was at slide lock and inserted a full mag and either used the slide release or did the sling shot method, the first round would get stuck against the feed ramp into the barrel and not load with the slide obviously not in battery. in order to clear this you would have to lock the slide to the rear and strip out the mag and clear it similar to a double feed.
if I gripped the slide, pulled it back and then ran the slide forward with my hand it fed fine but obviously that's not how its supposed to work.
needless to say I was a bit upset about this... I have a $2,500 gun (with a Type 2 RMR on it) and it was having problems.
I contacted STI via phone and they directed me to their website where you fill out a warranty claim.
Filling out the claim form, answering their questions took all of 3 minutes and it let me upload a cellphone video of the problem. I hit submit and got a response email back from their CS within half an hour with an apology and an RMA # with UPS prepaid overnight shipping label.
This was a friday... I packed my gun and mags up (they said to send them everything) and dropped it up at my UPS shipping center 1 hour later. The gun arrived in Texas at STI the next day. They worked on it right away and it was shipped back to me by Weds. and I got it back either that Thursday or Friday. I cant remember. But it was either a 6 or 7 day tops ordeal.
They replaced all of the Gen 2 mags with new ones, and tweaked the extractor tension and the feed ramps and test fired it with different weight ammo as well as similar ammo as to what I carry. The STI Gunsmith who worked on my gun called me personally to tell me what he did to fix the problems (never had that happen before) and that the gun was on it's way back.
Its been 100% since then and quite honestly it is the smoothest shooting 9mm I own.
Was having to send a $2,500 gun back to get worked on a bad thing? Yea. yea it was... but.
I dont know if it's just me but I seem to have bad luck with pistols... I've also had to send back a Smith and Wesson Performance Series M&P back as well for issues from the factory and I had to send back my Nighthawk Custom GRP Recon 1911 back as well for major feeding issues when I first got it.
In all three cases, STI, Smith and Wesson, and Nighthawk Custom, their customer service fixed the problems and the guns were/have been 100% fine and reliable afterwards and a dream to shoot.
I have to say that STI was the easiest to deal with and had the fastest turn around time by far. Nighthawk Custom being a close second and Smith and Wesson being third.
My Staccato P Duo is the only 2011 Ive owned so I can't compare it to other 2011s. But now that it loads right it is a dream to shoot. Very smooth, very flat, accurate and fast to run. If i were to ever get another 2011, I would look at STI again or Nighthawk perhaps since I have two of their guns that I like.
I would love say that my STI has always been 100% right out of the box but I cant... but they made it right and since the fixes its been 100% and overall Im a satisfied STI customer and Staccato P Duo owner.
modelbuilder56
08-20-20, 04:20
I have a 2020 P DUO, I work at a LGS as an NRA RSO and basic pistol instructor and so far I have about 700 rds. through mine with no failures whatsoever. I was never really a fan of 1911's before until I started handling the STI's we have at work then started shooting and doing some research on them. From what I read I wasn't sure I was willing to risk spending that much money but we have a 2019 on the range that just runs and was a joy to shoot.
I have a steep learning curve ahead with mine but so far I absolutely love it and now more so with an RMR on it.
115 gr. WWB at 7 yards indoors, and, no glasses!
https://i.imgur.com/bVQ0yMdl.jpg
Not really a 1911 fan and really can't justify the cost as a carry gun for me, but I am impressed with what I see and have read so far on the gun.
Congrats on the purchase
A recurring theme I have observed with five of eight 2019 Staccato (P and DVC P) has been poor barrel hood fit and abysmal extractor install. The good news- this/these are fairly easy fixes.
I made necessary repairs for our small groups guns as it was easier and quicker than sending back to STI. All have been 100% after these minor adjustments- AND with using the Gen 2 mags.
(This seemed obviously a lack of QC on STI's part. My feeling is with STI having H. Yam onboard, he would help them get this oversight squared away.)
The barrel hood fit not being an issue in reliable function in the issues seen, but in accuracy not being what was fully capable.
And you cannot simply take an extractor out of the package, stick it in the slide and expect reliable function. The bottom of extractor hook, where the rds. feed from magazine, really need to have bottom of hook radiused /chamfered and polished (see drawing). An appropriate amount of tension should be applied to extractor as well.
A 9mm/Super extractor being less forgiving of marginal or poor fit than a .45 IME.
I would add, I haven't seen these same problems with the two 2020 models in our group.
https://i.imgur.com/YUklcKP.gif
https://i.imgur.com/nB1z9HJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CjRxexU.gif?1
Bottom extractor is unmodified, notice sharp edge of bottom of hook.
Eurodriver
08-20-20, 16:37
I don't know what "poor barrel hood fit and abysmal extractor install" means, but how can I check these?
I can trouble shoot a Glock in my sleep. I could look at a stripped G19 and tell you if all the parts/springs are there just from memory.
But I literally had to go on 10-8's youtube channel to figure out how to take the slide off this thing lol
I don't know what "poor barrel hood fit and abysmal extractor install" means, but how can I check these?
I can trouble shoot a Glock in my sleep. I could look at a stripped G19 and tell you if all the parts/springs are there just from memory.
But I literally had to go on 10-8's youtube channel to figure out how to take the slide off this thing lol
M4Cs Dark Knight is growing up lol.
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Indeed.
Too much typing Euro.
To test appropriate tension; insert loaded mag, rack round in chamber, drop mag, slowly pinch slide back so rd is hanging from extractor pinned to breach face.
Round should NOT drop from extractor, but remain pinned to breach face.
This- is adequate extractor tension.
However, it won’t tell you squat about extractor hook being finished properly- per diagrams above.
Ideally you’d remove and visually examine extractor.
If gun FUNCTIONS flawlessly; stripping rd into battery smoothly, ejecting decisively, it is likely fine.
I’ll get back to you on barrel hood fit via PM.
PracticalRifleman
08-20-20, 20:03
M4Cs Dark Knight is growing up lol.
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Oh gawd, Euro, how are your parents?
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But I literally had to go on 10-8's youtube channel to figure out how to take the slide off this thing lol
STI forum on 1911forum (https://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
WillieThom
08-21-20, 14:59
STI/2011 Forum on 1911Addicts
https://www.1911addicts.com/forums/sti-2011.129/
Eurodriver
08-21-20, 21:43
M4Cs Dark Knight is growing up lol.
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Lol.
I definitely get the 1911 stuff now.
Compared to a Glock a properly setup 2011/1911 is the same as shooting a Savage Axis vs a custom built bolt gun.
Just smooth and forgiving
Lol.
I definitely get the 1911 stuff now.
Compared to a Glock a properly setup 2011/1911 is the same as shooting a Savage Axis vs a custom built bolt gun.
Just smooth and forgiving
Proudpapaface.jpeg
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PracticalRifleman
08-21-20, 21:47
Lol.
I definitely get the 1911 stuff now.
Compared to a Glock a properly setup 2011/1911 is the same as shooting a Savage Axis vs a custom built bolt gun.
Just smooth and forgiving
After years of screaming til red in the face about “muh Glawk 19”, you’re growing up. [emoji22]
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Eurodriver
08-21-20, 21:57
https://i.ibb.co/jhjtddf/89454410-3-C6-E-4258-9-F7-F-73161-CC6-E95-E.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/6Bx3d60/3-BB64-ABE-BE9-A-4242-BCF3-BFCA2548-DC3-A.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/jhq10YS/9-C56-BC5-C-86-AA-412-B-B255-E5021-D32-AE50.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/L9gYXLF/3-E231-E4-F-BDB3-412-B-B3-E6-4-B6-BBCFA31-DC.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/VLFh2Ff/4977-D7-CD-B273-43-D7-BDD7-B12-B07974-DC5.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/F32ym0M/626-C55-C3-1-CD7-4-FBA-8325-5-BAF743-A6-EC0.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/b5RjvcB/FBB47303-EBDD-4393-B3-D1-78-FE8-E14-EAD0.jpg
This thing is insanely accurate. First B8 was like a 96. Second was a 98. Third was a 100-2x! Speer 147gr Lawmen
I shot about 300 rounds through it today. The first 250 or so we’re fine. Zero failures. I was blasting. I mean I would dump 3 20 round mags in 30 seconds or less... and I was hitting the target lol. I got pics and videos. It’s nuts.
Around round 250 my gun stopped locking back on empty mags. Couldn’t figure out what was causing it. This was happening with 5 mags and like 6-8 different types of ammo. I had 147gr Lawman, GDHP, 115gr Blazer, AE, Win, 124 S&B, etc so I knew it was the gun.
I disassembled and couldn’t get the slide release to go come out more than 1/8”. It was jammed. Had to pop it out with a screwdriver. (See pic above) It was stuck so bad in the down position that it left marring on the mag followers.
Ended up getting home and talking to Gaijin and figuring out that the plunger assembly and detent for the slide release was 100% frozen. I was able to get it loose and then disassembled and cleaned the plunger and spring. (But then spent about 1.5 hours wondering why I had hammer follow - didn’t install the mainspring right...Or was it a leaf spring?)
Big learning curve with this gun coming from pasta pistols and Glocks. Gonna take it out again this weekend to see if the slide release issue is fixed. I didn’t see any burrs or anything in there so no idea what caused it.
Mainspring or Sear spring.
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Eurodriver
08-21-20, 22:16
After years of screaming til red in the face about “muh Glawk 19”, you’re growing up. [emoji22]
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Hah.
I think it’s pretty insane what 1911s can do.
I sure as shit didn’t get my first G19 and immediately shoot 3 B8s in a row averaging over 98 on each.
PracticalRifleman
08-21-20, 22:17
Hah.
I think it’s pretty insane what 1911s can do.
I sure as shit didn’t get my first G19 and immediately shoot 3 B8s in a row averaging over 98 on each.
My CZ was the first gun I hit consistent >96s. I suck with irons but it was easy. I really want a 2011 or similar myself.
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Hah.
I think it’s pretty insane what 1911s can do.
I sure as shit didn’t get my first G19 and immediately shoot 3 B8s in a row averaging over 98 on each.
Ive read elsewhere that B8s at distance are a meaningless performance metric. I think it was on here actually..... who knew.
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Well done.
And welcome to the dark side.
https://i.ibb.co/jhjtddf/89454410-3-C6-E-4258-9-F7-F-73161-CC6-E95-E.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/6Bx3d60/3-BB64-ABE-BE9-A-4242-BCF3-BFCA2548-DC3-A.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/jhq10YS/9-C56-BC5-C-86-AA-412-B-B255-E5021-D32-AE50.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/L9gYXLF/3-E231-E4-F-BDB3-412-B-B3-E6-4-B6-BBCFA31-DC.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/VLFh2Ff/4977-D7-CD-B273-43-D7-BDD7-B12-B07974-DC5.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/F32ym0M/626-C55-C3-1-CD7-4-FBA-8325-5-BAF743-A6-EC0.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/b5RjvcB/FBB47303-EBDD-4393-B3-D1-78-FE8-E14-EAD0.jpg
This thing is insanely accurate. First B8 was like a 96. Second was a 98. Third was a 100-2x! Speer 147gr Lawmen
I shot about 300 rounds through it today. The first 250 or so we’re fine. Zero failures. I was blasting. I mean I would dump 3 20 round mags in 30 seconds or less... and I was hitting the target lol. I got pics and videos. It’s nuts.
Around round 250 my gun stopped locking back on empty mags. Couldn’t figure out what was causing it. This was happening with 5 mags and like 6-8 different types of ammo. I had 147gr Lawman, GDHP, 115gr Blazer, AE, Win, 124 S&B, etc so I knew it was the gun.
I disassembled and couldn’t get the slide release to go come out more than 1/8”. It was jammed. Had to pop it out with a screwdriver. (See pic above) It was stuck so bad in the down position that it left marring on the mag followers.
Ended up getting home and talking to Gaijin and figuring out that the plunger assembly and detent for the slide release was 100% frozen. I was able to get it loose and then disassembled and cleaned the plunger and spring. (But then spent about 1.5 hours wondering why I had hammer follow - didn’t install the mainspring right...Or was it a leaf spring?)
Big learning curve with this gun coming from pasta pistols and Glocks. Gonna take it out again this weekend to see if the slide release issue is fixed. I didn’t see any burrs or anything in there so no idea what caused it.
Thanks for the write up..great observations as I am thinking about getting one at some point. The issues you were having at only 300 rounds is concerning with the slide release. If you don't get your issues fixed, send it back to Staccaco. I wonder with all the crazy gun buying it is causing some quality issues in the industry as a whole.
I bought a Springfield Defender a few months ago, had an issue with the mag release spring right out of the box so back to Springfield it went. I got it back a week or so later and the issue was resolved.
I am not really versed on the 1911 platform so I would be a bit perplexed if I had your issue.
Mainspring or Sear spring.
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Usually sear spring re-installed wonky- hook of sear leg not catching sear or disconnector leg not on top of bevel of disconnector.
I always chamfer/polish portion of disconnect leg that contacts disconnector.
Be certain small tab at base of sear spring is "plugged" into slot in frame prior to inserting mainspring housing.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/y420/Kevincaa/LeafSpring_zps0983f357.jpg
PracticalRifleman
08-22-20, 09:25
Ive read elsewhere that B8s at distance are a meaningless performance metric. I think it was on here actually..... who knew.
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They certainly aren’t a meaningless performance metric, but one shouldn’t choose their sidearm based solely on B8 performance.
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Insane split times are possible with the 1911/2011 format.
Rounds, on target, rapidly- are a big deal with a handgun.
.12-.15 second splits at close range are still routine with them inspite of advancing geezerhood.
That isn’t possible for me with striker guns.
Eurodriver
08-22-20, 11:19
Yeah the splits were insane. I’m taking it back to the range today and will post more pics and try to get a video up. There’s just no recoil on this thing and I can’t believe how accurate it is.
Eurodriver
08-22-20, 13:37
I think it’s gonna have to go back to staccato.
slide release engages when cycling by hand but when shooting it doesn’t engage about 90% of the time.
PracticalRifleman
08-22-20, 13:37
I think it’s gonna have to go back to staccato.
slide release engages when cycling by hand but when shooting it doesn’t engage about 90% of the time.
Is it your support hand thumb?
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Have someone shoot a pic of port/weak side of pistol with your hands position (as you’d hold shooting).
Also clarify; this photo, slide stop not fully seated, the pistol isn’t in this condition now??
63496
I think it’s gonna have to go back to staccato.
slide release engages when cycling by hand but when shooting it doesn’t engage about 90% of the time.
You may be riding the slide release. That happens me and others with the Vp9 and it's my only gripe of the Vp9. Weak mag springs are often the cause in 1911s in my experience.
Probably worth trying MBX mags and/or atlas springs.
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Eurodriver
08-22-20, 14:37
You may be riding the slide release. That happens me and others with the Vp9 and it's my only gripe of the Vp9. Weak mag springs are often the cause in 1911s in my experience.
Not riding the slide release. Happens even when I shoot it weak handed only. I’m not limp wristing either.
I have a suspicion that the mag springs aren’t strong enough or the plunger is causing too much friction on the slide release because even when I lock it back by hand with an empty mag in the gun it only goes in the notch in the slide about 1/32”
PracticalRifleman
08-22-20, 15:56
Not riding the slide release. Happens even when I shoot it weak handed only. I’m not limp wristing either.
I have a suspicion that the mag springs aren’t strong enough or the plunger is causing too much friction on the slide release because even when I lock it back by hand with an empty mag in the gun it only goes in the notch in the slide about 1/32”
To be sure, are these the magazines with the base plates? This sounds like you got the competition magazines which are designed to hold one or two extra rounds but do not have the sprint pressure to go to slide lock. That is a thing with 2011s.
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To be sure, are these the magazines with the base plates? This sounds like you got the competition magazines which are designed to hold one or two extra rounds but do not have the sprint pressure to go to slide lock. That is a thing with 2011s.
Interesting. Is there a reason other than higher mag capacity in the same dimensions that they would be preferred for competition guys?
PracticalRifleman
08-22-20, 16:06
Interesting. Is there a reason other than higher mag capacity in the same dimensions that they would be preferred for competition guys?
It’s all about capacity. Reloads are planned on the move. Slide lock is slow and takes up time. Nothing other than that. My guess is he has some of those magazines or those base pads.
Typically competition magazines are not measured by round count, but by length so you know what divisions they are legal for. Almost any 2011 magazine greater than 140mm is likely designed for competition.
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Eurodriver
08-22-20, 16:18
It’s all about capacity. Reloads are planned on the move. Slide lock is slow and takes up time. Nothing other than that. My guess is he has some of those magazines or those base pads.
Typically competition magazines are not measured by round count, but by length so you know what divisions they are legal for. Almost any 2011 magazine greater than 140mm is likely designed for competition.
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Interesting.
So I have four 140mm 20rd mags with the baseplates as pictured in the pics above. All are black Teflon and two came with the gun. Two I bought direct from staccato.
I have one 17rd mag that came with the gun with a regular short baseplate. The baseplates on the 20s is the “same” to the internal dimensions on the magazines but the interesting thing is the spring in the 20rd mag is the same as the 17rd mag. The 17rd mag is more reliable at locking the slide back.
All mags have the Gen2 follower w/ notch for lockback.
I’ve also noticed my slide release doesn’t exactly fit the groove thanks to Gaijin and might need some filing. I’m going to post pics of what a 20rd mag does when I get it to lock back.
https://i.ibb.co/hm8T2nB/8-BCDBA1-F-B08-C-477-B-9-EC4-B9-B24-D2-A3543.jpg
This is how my slide lock is (when it works) using the 20rd mags. The 17rd mag comes up a bit more but none of them completely fill the groove (unless u push it up by hand).
17rd mag
https://i.ibb.co/gMYPygq/787-D1311-7389-4059-9589-9-C6-DB3-DB040-A.jpg
If I push the bottom of the mag up into the gun while I rack the slide it fully engages.
https://i.ibb.co/54w9XB2/DB868761-AE3-E-4768-AD95-FA957-CA3-E4-D7.jpg
PracticalRifleman
08-22-20, 16:33
Looks like a two-fold problem with mags and the release. I’d call them Monday and confirm which mags will/won’t lock and if the base pads will prevent locking. I’m not up on the Gen 2s but the 17s should most definitely lock back EVERY time. If it’s not, the slide release may need tweaked. Not a big deal, but you do a lot more QC yourself on a $2000 2011 vs a $5000 blaster.
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From everything I've read it really seems like the the Gen2 grips are a step backwards.
Yeah the splits were insane. I’m taking it back to the range today and will post more pics and try to get a video up. There’s just no recoil on this thing and I can’t believe how accurate it is.
I blame you for me buying a C2 today...lol. I can't wait to get it to the range
Eurodriver
08-22-20, 19:32
Sorry for all the posts/back and forth as I try to diagnose in real time.
It’s not a magazine issue. It’s not a slide catch/release issue. The issue is that damn detent.
To summarize:
Got the gun brand new. Field stripped it (did not remove safeties or main spring housing), cleaned and lubricated.
Shot approximately 220 rounds with all 5 of my Gen2 Teflon magazines. One 17rd four 20rd. I had zero issues. Slide locked to the rear. No failures of any kind.
After 3 20rd mag rapid fire sessions, the slide did not lock to the rear on the last magazine. From then on it kept failing to lock back. I tried to disassemble and couldn’t because the slide catch was jammed after pushing it about 1/8” out. Later that evening I discovered that the detent was frozen in place.
Now, after trouble shooting mags for 24 hours (which gave me no issues) I have again a stuck detent and a slide catch about 1/8” out from the gun that I can neither pull out nor push back in.
Will be leaving the gun as-is and contacting STI so they can see exactly what I’m dealing with. I don’t need a “We couldn’t replicate your issue” response, and I’ve got over 20 hours of my own QC work in this gun already.
Looks like a two-fold problem with mags and the release. I’d call them Monday and confirm which mags will/won’t lock and if the base pads will prevent locking. I’m not up on the Gen 2s but the 17s should most definitely lock back EVERY time. If it’s not, the slide release may need tweaked. Not a big deal, but you do a lot more QC yourself on a $2000 2011 vs a $5000 blaster.
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The idea of doing any QC on a $2000 pistol is completely insane to me.
PracticalRifleman
08-22-20, 20:33
The idea of doing any QC on a $2000 pistol is completely insane to me.
I can see why you’d feel that way. I would, too. But in perspective, a $2000 2011 is just about the cheapest 2011 you can get. Think of buying a Hi-Point vs a Gen 5 Glock.
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I’ve got over 20 hours of my own QC work in this gun already.
Reliability.
The one area the UberGlockenPistolen will continue to rein supreme compared to the NineteenEleben and it's ilk.
The idea of doing any QC on a $2000 pistol is completely insane to me.
My CZ P09/07 $400 buck for the pistol, about $500 for CGW guts and milled for RMR. These pistols can be carried cocked and locked mine have a 3 pound SA trigger pull. I have seen a P09 group less than 2" at 50 yards out of a rest. So I get a pistol with RMR for around $1350. So I have $650 to buy ammo with.
I have had ZERO malfunctions with both pistols and now have close to 10,000 rounds through them.
PracticalRifleman
08-23-20, 17:20
My CZ P09/07 $400 buck for the pistol, about $500 for CGW guts and milled for RMR. These pistols can be carried cocked and locked mine have a 3 pound SA trigger pull. I have seen a P09 group less than 2" at 50 yards out of a rest. So I get a pistol with RMR for around $1350. So I have $650 to buy ammo with.
I have had ZERO malfunctions with both pistols and now have close to 10,000 rounds through them.
How often are you replacing the TRS? Doing any dry fire? I ran a Cajun P09 for a few years and I got no life out of the TRS. It made me move on.
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How often are you replacing the TRS? Doing any dry fire? I ran a Cajun P09 for a few years and I got no life out of the TRS. It made me move on.
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I try to dry fire every day, due to schedule I don't always get it done.
I replace the TRS about every 3 months when I also change out recoil spring.
I love the pistols so much I am not going to sweat a $7 part.
The idea of doing any QC on a $2000 pistol is completely insane to me.
Reliability.
The one area the UberGlockenPistolen will continue to rein supreme compared to the NineteenEleben and it's ilk.
This is the world of lower production, higher tolerance manufacturing. This is true in other worlds as well - a Toyota Camry likely has less maintenance than a Ferrari 488, but there is no question which is capable of greater performance.
This is the world of lower production, higher tolerance manufacturing. This is true in other worlds as well - a Toyota Camry likely has less maintenance than a Ferrari 488, but there is no question which is capable of greater performance.
The Toyota since the Ferrari will crap out on you. hahahahaha
PracticalRifleman
08-23-20, 20:52
I try to dry fire every day, due to schedule I don't always get it done.
I replace the TRS about every 3 months when I also change out recoil spring.
I love the pistols so much I am not going to sweat a $7 part.
It’s not about the $7, but when and how sequent life they go down. Replied to your PM.
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For what it is worth, and not to hijack thread. I read that Mike Pannone has a CGW CZ P09 with over 90k rounds through it with no issues. So I am thinking with the Omega triggers and CGW TRS, problem solved so I am going to stop replacing my TRS and see how long they go.
PracticalRifleman
08-24-20, 07:55
For what it is worth, and not to hijack thread. I read that Mike Pannone has a CGW CZ P09 with over 90k rounds through it with no issues. So I am thinking with the Omega triggers and CGW TRS, problem solved so I am going to stop replacing my TRS and see how long they go.
Keep us up to date on your experience.
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Eurodriver
08-24-20, 09:08
Got in touch with STI CS today. Very helpful group. Sent me a label in about 15 minutes.
hotrodder636
08-24-20, 11:41
Good to hear, hopefully they take care of you and you get back a reliable, functioning pistol. I have been wanting a Staccato since they came out.
Got in touch with STI CS today. Very helpful group. Sent me a label in about 15 minutes.
To chime in here:
- I have a Chambers Custom Night Fighter.
- It took around 9 months to get to me.
- Only a full custom gun that you spec has a 3-4 year wait; if you order a Pro-Series expect about a year (still a custom gun but you're not changing the formula)
- Chambers has 3 other gunsmiths. That's it. He keeps their production numbers low to maintain quality.
- I have over 17,000 rounds through my gun with 2 magazine related malfunctions with STI mags that needed a follower deburred.
- I have only replaced the recoil spring once because Chambers uses a superior spinr
- Chambers guns get 500rds through them before you get it...that's why you don't need to send it back after you figure out what's wrong.
- If you shoot a 2011 as good as Glock you're the weak link.
- I have a Staccato P on order. Will report back.
Standing by for questions
sundance435
08-25-20, 14:23
To chime in here:
- Chambers guns get 500rds through them before you get it...that's why you don't need to send it back after you figure out what's wrong.
- If you shoot a 2011 as good as Glock you're the weak link.
- I have a Staccato P on order. Will report back.
Standing by for questions
This is one thing I don't get about new Staccatos. If they have several guys/gals (Hilton, Mike P., etc.) putting high round counts on these, it's not entirely unlikely that they had some of the common issues I see reports of and they could've been addressed early on (unless there guns got more attention than usual). For instance, it seems that it's not uncommon for there to be something off with the geometry of the feed ramp, at least in how it interacts with the mags and different kinds of ammo, or it could be more of a mag problem, who knows. Still, Staccato, as far as I'm aware, hasn't really given a consistent answer as to what it might be, despite the problem being not altogether uncommon and similar across those that have the issue.
I'm not necessarily in the "If it's $2,000, it'd better run like a Ferrari," camp, because it's a 2011 and I had to temper expectations going in, but I'd like to know whether they have identified a somewhat uniform problem rather than the assorted responses they've given (bad batch of mag catches, slide lock, magazines and updates are coming, etc.). My perception is the demand is high and they're pushing them hard and the kind of general support I'm talking about is lacking. Not knocking their CS for individual guns, as I've heard no complaints. As an example (again, just my opinion), but I was displeased that their response to at least one person was that it's a mag problem and they're releasing a new generation of magazine (after the 2nd) - well, I already spent $400+ on mags, so am I SOL and now they're range mags? It is what it is, but I'd at least like to know what I'm in for, plus they marketed the 2nd gen mags as nearly bulletproof.
Edited to add: I love my non-Duo P and my "critique" is not even that big of a deal in my mind; it's just their lack of general support/consistent message/feedback that I find mildly annoying.
To chime in here:
- I have a Chambers Custom Night Fighter.
- It took around 9 months to get to me.
- Only a full custom gun that you spec has a 3-4 year wait; if you order a Pro-Series expect about a year (still a custom gun but you're not changing the formula)
- Chambers has 3 other gunsmiths. That's it. He keeps their production numbers low to maintain quality.
- I have over 17,000 rounds through my gun with 2 magazine related malfunctions with STI mags that needed a follower deburred.
- I have only replaced the recoil spring once because Chambers uses a superior spinr
- Chambers guns get 500rds through them before you get it...that's why you don't need to send it back after you figure out what's wrong.
- If you shoot a 2011 as good as Glock you're the weak link.
- I have a Staccato P on order. Will report back.
Standing by for questions
I’m on the 2021 list for a Nightfighter but I doubt I’ll see it until 2022 lol. Oh well, order and forget it I figure. I’ve been looking at a couple different Nighthawks for the interim though. I get the chambers demand comes from some of the exclusivity but I’d like to know what they’re doing differently then some of the other high end brands.
Also you should post pics. Because reasons
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This is one thing I don't get about new Staccatos. If they have several guys/gals (Hilton, Mike P., etc.) putting high round counts on these, it's not entirely unlikely that they had some of the common issues I see reports of and they could've been addressed early on (unless there guns got more attention than usual). For instance, it seems that it's not uncommon for there to be something off with the geometry of the feed ramp, at least in how it interacts with the mags and different kinds of ammo, or it could be more of a mag problem, who knows. Still, Staccato, as far as I'm aware, hasn't really given a consistent answer as to what it might be, despite the problem being not altogether uncommon and similar across those that have the issue.
I'm not necessarily in the "If it's $2,000, it'd better run like a Ferrari," camp, because it's a 2011 and I had to temper expectations going in, but I'd like to know whether they have identified a somewhat uniform problem rather than the assorted responses they've given (bad batch of mag catches, slide lock, magazines and updates are coming, etc.). My perception is the demand is high and they're pushing them hard and the kind of general support I'm talking about is lacking. Not knocking their CS for individual guns, as I've heard no complaints. As an example (again, just my opinion), but I was displeased that their response to at least one person was that it's a mag problem and they're releasing a new generation of magazine (after the 2nd) - well, I already spent $400+ on mags, so am I SOL and now they're range mags? It is what it is, but I'd at least like to know what I'm in for, plus they marketed the 2nd gen mags as nearly bulletproof.
Edited to add: I love my non-Duo P and my "critique" is not even that big of a deal in my mind; it's just their lack of general support/consistent message/feedback that I find mildly annoying.
Taken collectively it seems like a lot of the problems came with the transition to the gen2 grips and the corresponding changes affecting the magazine positioning in the gun. If things weren’t broke on the gen 1s I don’t understand why they set out to fix it.
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sundance435
08-26-20, 09:10
Taken collectively it seems like a lot of the problems came with the transition to the gen2 grips and the corresponding changes affecting the magazine positioning in the gun. If things weren’t broke on the gen 1s I don’t understand why they set out to fix it.
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It does seem that way now. They have said in the past that the gen 2 was stronger, but I have no idea if they're planning any further changes.
I think they're getting there. Whenever there is an issue they do make it right. A lot of the mag issues are people topping off mags with 147 flat nose...and then being surprised when the magazine spring wears out resulting in a failure to feed... I don't think you're SOL with the current generation of mags but the magazine springs aren't going to last forever. They need a better spring. Guys like Noner also have a stack of mags and know that an issue was magazine related instead of blaming the gun. Personally, I run MBX mags for things that matter and STI mags for everything else.
This is one thing I don't get about new Staccatos. If they have several guys/gals (Hilton, Mike P., etc.) putting high round counts on these, it's not entirely unlikely that they had some of the common issues I see reports of and they could've been addressed early on (unless there guns got more attention than usual). For instance, it seems that it's not uncommon for there to be something off with the geometry of the feed ramp, at least in how it interacts with the mags and different kinds of ammo, or it could be more of a mag problem, who knows. Still, Staccato, as far as I'm aware, hasn't really given a consistent answer as to what it might be, despite the problem being not altogether uncommon and similar across those that have the issue.
I'm not necessarily in the "If it's $2,000, it'd better run like a Ferrari," camp, because it's a 2011 and I had to temper expectations going in, but I'd like to know whether they have identified a somewhat uniform problem rather than the assorted responses they've given (bad batch of mag catches, slide lock, magazines and updates are coming, etc.). My perception is the demand is high and they're pushing them hard and the kind of general support I'm talking about is lacking. Not knocking their CS for individual guns, as I've heard no complaints. As an example (again, just my opinion), but I was displeased that their response to at least one person was that it's a mag problem and they're releasing a new generation of magazine (after the 2nd) - well, I already spent $400+ on mags, so am I SOL and now they're range mags? It is what it is, but I'd at least like to know what I'm in for, plus they marketed the 2nd gen mags as nearly bulletproof.
Edited to add: I love my non-Duo P and my "critique" is not even that big of a deal in my mind; it's just their lack of general support/consistent message/feedback that I find mildly annoying.
What Chambers is doing differently:
- Slide stop pin location is lower resulting in softer shooting, less wear on the gun, better lock up.
- Proper barrel fit
- Unique slide/frame dimensions
- Marvel disconnector cut
- Properly fit, finish reamed Kart barrel
- .0001 tolerances
- 500rds testing before the gun is out the door
- 1.5" at 50yd guarantee
- Proper mainspring/recoil spring balance
That's just off the top of my head.
I’m on the 2021 list for a Nightfighter but I doubt I’ll see it until 2022 lol. Oh well, order and forget it I figure. I’ve been looking at a couple different Nighthawks for the interim though. I get the chambers demand comes from some of the exclusivity but I’d like to know what they’re doing differently then some of the other high end brands.
Also you should post pics. Because reasons
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It does seem that way now. They have said in the past that the gen 2 was stronger, but I have no idea if they're planning any further changes.
I finally got some hands on time with a P, P DUO, and Gen1 DUO.
The Gen 2 grip is absolutely hot trash omg. Unnecessarily over-sized, texturing lack luster. The gen1 was superior by far. I pick one up I'll definitely be swapping the grip out. Guns felt solid otherwise and on par with a nice TRP imo.
What Chambers is doing differently:
- Slide stop pin location is lower resulting in softer shooting, less wear on the gun, better lock up.
- Proper barrel fit
- Unique slide/frame dimensions
- Marvel disconnector cut
- Properly fit, finish reamed Kart barrel
- .0001 tolerances
- 500rds testing before the gun is out the door
- 1.5" at 50yd guarantee
- Proper mainspring/recoil spring balance
That's just off the top of my head.
Thank you. Also standby for PM.
contax_shooter
08-26-20, 19:34
What Chambers is doing differently:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50272386648_3f74a447cf_o.jpg
Correction in my last. 2023 is more probable
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sundance435
08-26-20, 19:58
I think they're getting there. Whenever there is an issue they do make it right. A lot of the mag issues are people topping off mags with 147 flat nose...and then being surprised when the magazine spring wears out resulting in a failure to feed... I don't think you're SOL with the current generation of mags but the magazine springs aren't going to last forever. They need a better spring. Guys like Noner also have a stack of mags and know that an issue was magazine related instead of blaming the gun. Personally, I run MBX mags for things that matter and STI mags for everything else.
This is news to me. All I shoot is 147gr Lawman for practice and in new mags I had a couple of misfeeds. Can the Staccato mag springs just be swapped out for the MBX? I'm not a big fan of the grip, but it's not terrible - do you know if you can buy the Gen 1 grip and install it on the new Staccato Ps?
You can swap the grips around.
Another thing though. Springs have been the bane of 2011s for like how long now?
Why are they not putting the stiffest springs possible even if that means reducing capacity to say 15 rounds in 126mm for example. Seems like a fair trade for guns that run better.
Can you stuff a 155 or 170 spring in a 126 mag body? Lol
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sundance435
08-26-20, 20:45
You can swap the grips around.
Another thing though. Springs have been the bane of 2011s for like how long now?
Why are they not putting the stiffest springs possible even if that means reducing capacity to say 15 rounds in 126mm for example. Seems like a fair trade for guns that run better.
Can you stuff a 155 or 170 spring in a 126 mag body? Lol
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Are the trigger and mag catch interchangeable? I see on Extreme Shooters that you have to buy a Gen 1 mag catch and the trigger or frame may need some filing for it to fit.
Trigger is the same as any other but it’s probably best practice to fit a new one.
Mag catch needs to be gen1
If anyone has a line on Flat double stack triggers of good quality lemme know please.
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I'm not going to write off a dude for some humor.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50272386648_3f74a447cf_o.jpg
I too enjoy 147gr lawman (I have about 14k through my gun). You should be able to get Staccato mag springs from Dawson rather than trying to fit an MBX spring in the gun. Most competitors replace springs yearly. Not the worst burden to bear: I'd change out springs when I change out my optic battery.
Yes you can install a Gen 1 grip on a newer gun but the magazine release is different.
This is news to me. All I shoot is 147gr Lawman for practice and in new mags I had a couple of misfeeds. Can the Staccato mag springs just be swapped out for the MBX? I'm not a big fan of the grip, but it's not terrible - do you know if you can buy the Gen 1 grip and install it on the new Staccato Ps?
This thread is going to sell me Wilson’s EDC X9L, lol.
This thread is going to sell me Wilson’s EDC X9L, lol.
The number of those on the secondary market is a clue...
PracticalRifleman
08-27-20, 10:13
The number of those on the secondary market is a clue...
And what clue is that? They sell a lot of them?
The Glock 19 is one of the most available pistols on the secondary market; I believe before the P365 it was the highest selling pistol on the online auctions.
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The clue is that they aren't that great. You don't see a lot of exceptional pistols at that price point being resold.
They aren't a significant advancement of the Browning design.
When/if you buy one you're more than welcome to love it.
And what clue is that? They sell a lot of them?
The Glock 19 is one of the most available pistols on the secondary market; I believe before the P365 it was the highest selling pistol on the online auctions.
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PracticalRifleman
08-27-20, 11:43
I’m not sure that I agree with that conclusion based merely on anecdotal “they are for sale all the time” evidence. Have you owned one?
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sundance435
08-27-20, 13:14
The number of those on the secondary market is a clue...
I get what you're saying, but I don't keep track of reviews or issues with that gun, specifically. In general, I think a lot of higher $$$ pistols end up getting sold because casual gun owners/shooters end up having remorse over spending so much, or they're the first to go when they need money. It's amazing to me how many $3000-5000 pistols you can find used with few to no rounds through them. You never see well-used examples up for sale. As an example, I'd never buy a new Springfield Professional when you can get a used example with 50-100 rounds through it for $500 less.
hotrodder636
09-16-20, 10:31
Euro—any updates?
MadAngler1
09-19-20, 16:26
Yeah I’d like an update as well.
I put about 250 rounds through a Staccato at a local range (they really wanted me to buy it since they know I buy expensive things from time to time). I was not that impressed, and the 2011 mags give me pause. Point is, I can’t justify it when I shoot a Glock 17 and 19 as well. It’s the reason I haven’t shelled out $2800 for a Wilson EDC X9. Just another system to buy (mags, holsters, spare parts etc).
What I wouldn’t give to be there when a Staccato owner who has thrown down over $2k, sent it back once, bought a different grip, swapped magazines, messed with magazine springs, and put 500 rounds through it realizes that he would’ve been better served by taking 4 classes and buying a case of ammo for (insert whatever striker fired pistol you like) as they are getting destroyed by a middle aged obese man and a G34 on the clock.
Nightstalker865
09-19-20, 21:05
I wish Euro well on the gun. It is a cool setup for sure, but I wasn’t impressed by the C2 or P (2020 models) that I handled in the shop. Barrel fit didn’t feel right and the plastic trigger shoe on a $2K+ gun was really a turnoff.
After reading about more and more issues with them on Pistol Forum, I’ve lost interest in the Staccato line.
I’d still entertain a 2011 from a company like Triarc, but that’s another jump up in price for something I’m not sure I would really shoot any better than my P226 Legion or 92G-BrigTac.
I think I’ll just stick to traditional 1911’s. That SA Pro that Euro picked up is right up my alley.
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Eurodriver
09-20-20, 09:24
Euro—any updates?
From the day I called to the day I got it back was 8 days. They overnighted both ways and fixed it up quickly.
Gun functions 100% now. I would even trust it as there is a solid difference in how the slide locks back so I can tell it was done “right”. Not sure what the issue was as the paperwork only says “adjusted slide stop”.
My bigger issue that I have become a huge fan of the SA Professional in the meantime. Still have some learning to do but that gun is more of a laser beam than the 2011. It’s also in a man’s caliber :)
My bigger issue that I have become a huge fan of the SA Professional in the meantime. Still have some learning to do but that gun is more of a laser beam than the 2011. It’s also in a man’s caliber :)
YEAH! Classic 1911 FTW. :dance3:
Nightstalker865
09-20-20, 13:52
Great to hear your enjoying the pro [emoji41]
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PracticalRifleman
09-21-20, 09:28
I wish Euro well on the gun. It is a cool setup for sure, but I wasn’t impressed by the C2 or P (2020 models) that I handled in the shop. Barrel fit didn’t feel right and the plastic trigger shoe on a $2K+ gun was really a turnoff.
After reading about more and more issues with them on Pistol Forum, I’ve lost interest in the Staccato line.
I’d still entertain a 2011 from a company like Triarc, but that’s another jump up in price for something I’m not sure I would really shoot any better than my P226 Legion or 92G-BrigTac.
I think I’ll just stick to traditional 1911’s. That SA Pro that Euro picked up is right up my alley.
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Triarc is not a known good company with its own QC issues and shoddy worksmanship. They tend to “run” but they aren’t built right. There is a recent video by a famous smith diagnosing one. And no, it’s not just that one gun.
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I wish Euro well on the gun. It is a cool setup for sure, but I wasn’t impressed by the C2 or P (2020 models) that I handled in the shop. Barrel fit didn’t feel right and the plastic trigger shoe on a $2K+ gun was really a turnoff.
After reading about more and more issues with them on Pistol Forum, I’ve lost interest in the Staccato line.
I’d still entertain a 2011 from a company like Triarc, but that’s another jump up in price for something I’m not sure I would really shoot any better than my P226 Legion or 92G-BrigTac.
I think I’ll just stick to traditional 1911’s. That SA Pro that Euro picked up is right up my alley.
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Good points I missed this earlier, but almost exactly where I'm at on the whole STI and double-stack 1911's trend (except I never heard of Triarc but not interested anywa). Wish Euro well, totally, hope he gets the bugs worked out and it's a great pistol. But betting the SA Pro classic 1911 turns out to be the long-term keeper.
Nightstalker865
09-21-20, 22:23
Triarc is not a known good company with its own QC issues and shoddy worksmanship. They tend to “run” but they aren’t built right. There is a recent video by a famous smith diagnosing one. And no, it’s not just that one gun.
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Care to link the video? I’ve been hearing very good results from their line. I’d be curious to see a contrasting opinion. Thanks
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Triarc is not a known good company with its own QC issues and shoddy worksmanship. They tend to “run” but they aren’t built right. There is a recent video by a famous smith diagnosing one. And no, it’s not just that one gun.
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Can you PM me or post a link to that video? Super interested.
Triarc is not a known good company with its own QC issues and shoddy worksmanship. They tend to “run” but they aren’t built right. There is a recent video by a famous smith diagnosing one. And no, it’s not just that one gun.
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I’m not convinced that gun in particular did not have anyone touch after it left triarc and before the bench assessment you mentioned. It certainly had some foundational deficiencies but man it looked like it was something someone cobbled together from parts of tacswap which makes me think someone had their hands in it.
The reviewer stated he could not confirm that and only that the guns current owner did not work on it himself.
But I’d also wonder why someone who shoots 2011s and is friends with the gunsmith who did the review, would even wind up with a triarc in the first place considering the person and knowledge he as access too.
Also not for nothing but the video is public access if you’re on social media so I’m not seeing anything faux pas about it.
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Nightstalker865
09-22-20, 10:58
I’m not convinced that gun in particular did not have anyone touch after it left triarc and before the bench assessment you mentioned. It certainly had some foundational deficiencies but man it looked like it was something someone cobbled together from parts of tacswap which makes me think someone had their hands in it.
The reviewer stated he could not confirm that and only that the guns current owner did not work on it himself.
But I’d also wonder why someone who shoots 2011s and is friends with the gunsmith who did the review, would even wind up with a triarc in the first place considering the person and knowledge he as access too.
Also not for nothing but the video is public access if you’re on social media so I’m not seeing anything faux pas about it.
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Can someone please link the video?
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- There are no new parts in the gun, everything is as it came from the manufacturer. That alone points to no interference from the owner(s). There's no reason a user would do things like make holes oblong...and they certainly can't affect slide to frame fit, or lack thereof.
- The current owner received the pistol in a trade, he's known to go through a lot of guns/gear.
I’m not convinced that gun in particular did not have anyone touch after it left triarc and before the bench assessment you mentioned. It certainly had some foundational deficiencies but man it looked like it was something someone cobbled together from parts of tacswap which makes me think someone had their hands in it.
The reviewer stated he could not confirm that and only that the guns current owner did not work on it himself.
But I’d also wonder why someone who shoots 2011s and is friends with the gunsmith who did the review, would even wind up with a triarc in the first place considering the person and knowledge he as access too.
Also not for nothing but the video is public access if you’re on social media so I’m not seeing anything faux pas about it.
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Nightstalker865
09-22-20, 13:15
- There are no new parts in the gun, everything is as it came from the manufacturer. That alone points to no interference from the owner(s). There's no reason a user would do things like make holes oblong...and they certainly can't affect slide to frame fit, or lack thereof.
- The current owner received the pistol in a trade, he's known to go through a lot of guns/gear.
Was told the video in question is on “Chambers Custom” Instagram feed. I don’t have an Instagram account, so I can’t look through enough of the posts to find the video. If someone can find a way to link directly to it or share it from the account, it would be appreciated.
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Was told the video in question is on “Chambers Custom” Instagram feed. I don’t have an Instagram account, so I can’t look through enough of the posts to find the video. If someone can find a way to link directly to it or share it from the account, it would be appreciated.
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I gotchu fam
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFNzMlFpsMM/?igshid=1kb0vib5x4an8
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Nightstalker865
09-22-20, 15:39
I gotchu fam
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFNzMlFpsMM/?igshid=1kb0vib5x4an8
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Thank you for posting that. WOW.... is about all I can say. Did Triarc ever comment on the video? I can only read the top two.
After seeing that, I think I’ll pass on making them a recommendation from here forward. Lack of attention to detail and poor QC was astonishing.
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Well that wasn’t encouraging.
Can you get a (1911/2011) gun to run properly? Sure, but at what price point should that be unnecessary?
I’d had some issues with several STIs in the last year and a half.
Barrel fit, which did not affect function, rather accuracy and extractor fitment, or rather lack of- which DID affect function.
Fortunately these were resolved fairly easily without sending back to STI, but should have not been necessary in my book.
I think the Staccatos are pretty good. Yes, you may have to send it back, that's likely part of their cost savings. I have a Stacato P en route, but there are much more expensive guns I wouldn't bother with.
PracticalRifleman
09-23-20, 19:47
Sorry, I haven’t been able to log in due to work, that’s the video but it isn’t the first one I’ve heard of being in that shape by a long shot.
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GhostRecon21
09-24-20, 07:07
A quote from Chambers on another forum about this video:
“I'm not saying that every gun from a company is as bad as this one...but in this case, every gun I've seen from this particular company has had similar issues.”
That tells me a lot right there.
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sundance435
09-24-20, 09:15
A quote from Chambers on another forum about this video:
“I'm not saying that every gun from a company is as bad as this one...but in this case, every gun I've seen from this particular company has had similar issues.”
That tells me a lot right there.
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I would certainly be willing to take the word of someone like him on the matter. That said, I think Staccato has gotten the closest to a well-functioning 2011. Most of us are used to Glocks and thus expect no issues out of the box - a Glock it ain't, for better and worse. The better just happens to far outweigh the worse.
Well that wasn’t encouraging.
Can you get a (1911/2011) gun to run properly?
Of course
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200924/ab1383fa3354031a18de2352de8ba1d0.jpg
Is that your covid mask?
I really hope this got some use this year.
http://i.imgur.com/FVRullV.png (http://www.vdmsr.com/2016/12/cthulhu.html)
Chortle
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Is that your covid mask?
yep..& sadly I sold the 2011 before I could take any of your money.
What a great shooter it was.....
KiloSierra
10-03-20, 18:34
...
Second, Chambers lists a 36-48 MONTH lead time for builds. Even if this is for a truly custom gun that I won’t be buying, any company that lists 4 years for build times is a huge red flag. That’s insane and completely laughable. Are these guys searching the earth for the iron to pull directly out of the ground with which to forge my frame? Nah. The Empire State Building was made in less than two years. Hell we were only at war with Nazi Germany for 42 months!
...
Some people put quality and craftsmanship above all else and don’t want to risk that slipping just to put more guns out the door.
Yes but those lead times are insane. Do you have to put $$$ down to get on a list?
If not, no big deal, if so it's BS. BUT if people are willing to do it then let them do it. I would never.
I bought custom handgun grips that put you on his list then called me 8 months later. Sent him a check ....
PB
Eurodriver
10-04-20, 09:17
Some people put quality and craftsmanship above all else and don’t want to risk that slipping just to put more guns out the door.
48 months though?
48 months ago everyone knew Clinton was gonna win the White House. Think about how long ago that was.
Don’t even bother taking more orders at that point. That’s an insane lead time. Joe is embarrassing himself just having that on his website.
KiloSierra
10-04-20, 14:46
Not unusual in the world of true customs regardless on what it is. Where there’s a demand for extreme quality in craftsmanship and individualness there’s a long wait if the maker’s well known. My father in law’s best friend is a custom knife maker who has 6-7 years backlog of orders. That’s a lot of knives!
Eurodriver
10-05-20, 11:52
Not unusual in the world of true customs regardless on what it is. Where there’s a demand for extreme quality in craftsmanship and individualness there’s a long wait if the maker’s well known. My father in law’s best friend is a custom knife maker who has 6-7 years backlog of orders. That’s a lot of knives!
:help: Recently I've learned not to knock things I don't understand, because as I've grown up I've learned that sometimes I end up doing exactly that. This thread, and my history on M4C is a great example. Looking through my post history who would've guessed I'd have a 1911? LOL. Four years ago if you told me I would have a SA Custom Shop 1911 and it'd be in my nightstand I would've laughed your face off and called you a Boomer.
Maybe 3-5 years from now I'll be giving Joe a call...and some money?
Yes but those lead times are insane. Do you have to put $$$ down to get on a list?
If not, no big deal, if so it's BS. BUT if people are willing to do it then let them do it. I would never.
I bought custom handgun grips that put you on his list then called me 8 months later. Sent him a check ....
PB
48 months though?
48 months ago everyone knew Clinton was gonna win the White House. Think about how long ago that was.
Don’t even bother taking more orders at that point. That’s an insane lead time. Joe is embarrassing himself just having that on his website.
48 months is nothing. Other top tier smiffs can be years longer or books are closed indefinitely.
My full house from Chuck
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201006/f440e62fcc47e828a5a083839a43b001.jpg
Harrison is out 60-72 months. When you're good people get in line to pay for your s$#t.
48 months is nothing. Other top tier smiffs can be years longer or books are closed indefinitely.
My full house from Chuck
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201006/f440e62fcc47e828a5a083839a43b001.jpg
Nice gun, better bullets! Well done.
PB
48 months though?
48 months ago everyone knew Clinton was gonna win the White House. Think about how long ago that was.
Don’t even bother taking more orders at that point. That’s an insane lead time. Joe is embarrassing himself just having that on his website.
Really, he's not. The people that are willing to pay what he charges know how long it takes. The lead time is more of a testament to how many people want what he's offering. There are quite a few good smiths with multiple year leads and that's just how it is. Some of them try to balance that with some lighter work. Stan Chen comes to mind. Others close their books as was previously discussed.
Think about it - if it took you forty hours to crank out a gun, you're only building a few dozen a year. True art pieces these are. All you need is a hundred people that want one and you're booked three years out. The problem is, a lot of people underestimate the demand for this kind of thing.
Anyone ever heard of John Jardine?
Sure. No first hand experience.
His Valtro 1911 looks like a classic, all the frills gun.
I would like to examine/shoot one.
KiloSierra
10-08-20, 21:43
He is one of the lesser known 1911 master smiths and learned how to work on 1911’s from his uncle Armand Swenson. I’ve seen some of his work and it’s every bit as good as any other 1911 mastersmiths. I haven’t been messing around in the world of 1911’s since I stopped carrying one off duty several years ago and had to look him up and see if he was even still working. He’s apparently stopped taking orders for the most part and just adds you too a waiting list. When he works down to your name on the list he calls and makes arrangements to do the work if you still want a custom gun.
He is one of the lesser known 1911 master smiths and learned how to work on 1911’s from his uncle Armand Swenson. I’ve seen some of his work and it’s every bit as good as any other 1911 mastersmiths. I haven’t been messing around in the world of 1911’s since I stopped carrying one off duty several years ago and had to look him up and see if he was even still working. He’s apparently stopped taking orders for the most part and just adds you too a waiting list. When he works down to your name on the list he calls and makes arrangements to do the work if you still want a custom gun.
Lesser known...🤔
Lol...ok
KiloSierra
10-08-20, 23:00
Lesser known...[emoji848]
Lol...ok
Relatively speaking he is lesser known then ones such as Ned Christiansen, John Harrison, Bill Loughridge, Paul Liebenberg, etc. I had heard of them for years before I heard of Jardine. He’s one of the ones well known to people who buy high end 1911’s, but he’s just not as well known as others to the large scale production/semi custom market. I can only assume it’s because he doesn’t have a fancy website and doesn’t advertise much if at all. He’s been making high end 1911’s since before I was born, so I would assume he’s probably getting more then enough business by word of mouth to keep him busy for a while without advertising.
Accurate^^. He's not as widely known as Ted Yost/John Harrison/etc.
His work (from photos) looks quite good.
Alaskapopo
10-10-20, 00:10
I love my 2011's. All have been gamer guns though but very reliable. For carry I stick with Glocks
i love my 2011 9mm tactical that i bought in 2012. taken several classes with it with no reliability issues. it was not the cheapest option at the time with having to tune the mags but it is more accurate than i am. me personally i would use it in a serious situation without reservations.
sundance435
10-12-20, 14:15
I have more respect for someone like Chambers who is giving a more realistic timeline. Most of the well-known gunsmiths I've dealt with will give you a timeframe, but many times it's nothing more than a guess and maybe not even a very educated one. I'm not the kind of person who can send a gun to a smith and forget about it or who wants to keep calling them when they've blown by a deadline. Plus, they can "close their books", but I've never known one that isn't still taking stuff on, e.g. someone willing to spend $4-5,000 for a close to full custom gun.
These guys are true craftsmen/artisans, but I get the impression that some are not businessmen (and with little to no support staff), so I respect people like Chambers and Yost who establish realistic wait times and stick to them. I'm not wealthy, but I am willing to pay to avoid a series of missed guesses and numerous phone calls.
I have been reaching out to folks to try and answer that question and I’m only more confused. Some things I’ve heard are that guns like Nighthawk and Chambers are better and Staccato P’s are mag finicky and have problems. P’s are gamer guns. Etc.
First, I’m generally not one to fixate on price. I know you get what you pay for and if it’s what I need then that’s the price to pay. But I don’t know enough about any of these guns to understand why a Staccato P is $1999 and a Nighthawk or Chambers is on the wrong side of $5000. To me, it’s like I can have a $65,000 BMW which is very nice or a $280,000 Lamborghini which is of course nicer but completely unnecessary.
Second, Chambers lists a 36-48 MONTH lead time for builds. Even if this is for a truly custom gun that I won’t be buying, any company that lists 4 years for build times is a huge red flag. That’s insane and completely laughable. Are these guys searching the earth for the iron to pull directly out of the ground with which to forge my frame? Nah. The Empire State Building was made in less than two years. Hell we were only at war with Nazi Germany for 42 months!
Third, and this is a me problem, but I would probably still carry a Glock. I of course want any gun I buy to run 100% but the differential in accuracy a 1911 provides isn’t making up for the weight and muscle memory penalties. So, is a $5k gun that can’t be used at night or shoot 1,000 yards really necessary?
Help me.
Sincerely,
A Glock fanboy who is growing up.
I think you're out of your mind to consider either one. I'd recommend a used, sub-$600 Ruger alloy commander in 9mm. Especially if you think you might actually carry it. If the cops take it as evidence, they WILL steal it, unless you spend another 5k on a lawyer to make them give it back to you, It will get "lost" in the evidence room, practically guaranteed! I'm not kidding.
Because you expect a $600 Ruger to actually run?
Ok
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That's insane. A $600 Ruger. Nope never ever
PB
SeriousStudent
11-13-20, 22:28
tellum - please stop.
Life’s too short to carry a cheaper pistol for the sole reason that you won’t be out much money if it is seized as evidence. The probability of that is almost zero and the likelihood of greater enjoyment from carrying your ideal pistol is guaranteed.
Nightstalker865
11-14-20, 07:40
tellum - please stop.
I agree. This forum has really gone downhill the past couple of years. Frustrating and sad at the same time.
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any smith who can't make one run in an hour, for $100, is not worthy of the name. You suckers just want other people to waster their money, like you did.
Life’s too short to carry a cheaper pistol for the sole reason that you won’t be out much money if it is seized as evidence. The probability of that is almost zero and the likelihood of greater enjoyment from carrying your ideal pistol is guaranteed.
Money's too short to waste $3000 on a gun that's not provably a lick better in a match.
MountainRaven
11-14-20, 08:26
If you use a firearm in a defensive situation and the firearm is taken from you as evidence, getting it back, the amount you spent on it, replacing it, &c. will literally be the least of your concerns and, more than likely, the least of your expenses.
Also: If $600 1911s perform well in competition, it shouldn't be hard to find a list of the people winning at national-level competitions in single-stack/1911 divisions with such pistols. If guys like Ben Stoeger can do it in production with bone stock Beretta 92Gs and guys like Bob Vogel with a stock G34/35/24, surely someone can do it with a stock SR-1911. If anyone can, anyway.
If you use a firearm in a defensive situation and the firearm is taken from you as evidence, getting it back, the amount you spent on it, replacing it, &c. will literally be the least of your concerns and, more than likely, the least of your expenses.
Also: If $600 1911s perform well in competition, it shouldn't be hard to find a list of the people winning at national-level competitions in single-stack/1911 divisions with such pistols. If guys like Ben Stoeger can do it in production with bone stock Beretta 92Gs and guys like Bob Vogel with a stock G34/35/24, surely someone can do it with a stock SR-1911. If anyone can, anyway.
of course they could, but the 1911 crowd is hung up on the .45, which is a handicap, and they are also a bunch of snot nosed blowhards who "think" that they can buy superior performance,without having to put in the work needed to do so.
there IS no "if" about the gun being siezed as evidence, until the grand jury rules on the case, at least, and there's very little "if" about a cop stealing a $5000 gun, either.
Money's too short to waste $3000 on a gun that's not provably a lick better in a match.
Hahaha...
Because you expect a $600 Ruger to actually run?
Ok
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At least we aren't comparing Highpoints to P320s yet
of course they could, but the 1911 crowd is hung up on the .45, which is a handicap, and they are also a bunch of snot nosed blowhards who "think" that they can buy superior performance,without having to put in the work needed to do so............
???
What in Gods name are you talking about?
.45 ACP a handicap?
Snot nosed blowhards, thinking they can buy superior performance sans “the work”.
It is painful watching you gut yourself and bleed out in public like this.
yes, the .45's lesser mag capacity and greater recoil is a handicap, and everyone but you knows it is. I helped Cooper set up the IPSC and we deliberately handicapped the 9mm, but the top hands have become so good at staying in the A zone that the major-minor scoring handicap has been voided as to its utility.
my ruger ran just fine. So does the 80 % frame that I put an armcor parts kit on, but i had to do a lot of smithing on that one. every last pin, pin hole, etc had to be deburred. As I said, any smith worthy of the name can fix a malfunctioning 1911 in an hour. Ive seen some that the mag catch recess was almost 1/8" too low in the frame.I built up the mag catch with weld and recut it, and swc's ran fine thru those guns. Colt is a UAW plant and when they couldnt get all of the members to go on a strike, they'd sabotage the product. I got a brand new series 70 gold cup that went full auto, right out of the box. The sear spring had no heat treat to it at ALL. That could easily have killed somebody
Ok. Whatever you say.
My personal experience differs.
You helped Jeff Cooper set up Ipsc? Really....this just keeps getting better. :suicide:
Dude please stop. Did you see what the mod said a few posts above? :stop:
MountainRaven
11-14-20, 15:23
I want to hear more about their experiences having cops steal their guns from evidence lockers and their experience hiring lawyers to get their guns back after being no-billed.
If they have any, that is.
At least we aren't comparing Highpoints to P320s yet
What’s there to compare though? They’re equivalent.
Shrug
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Money's too short to waste $3000 on a gun that's not provably a lick better in a match.
I paid $900 for my used Dawson prepped Trojan.
I do shoot a Glock in USPSA though.
Nightstalker865
11-14-20, 18:12
Money's too short to waste $3000 on a gun that's not provably a lick better in a match.
Please crawl back under the bridge you came out from. This forum doesn’t need your BS.
Where are the mods when you need them...
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What’s there to compare though? They’re equivalent.
Shrug
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Now you have stirred the hornets nest...
Now you have stirred the hornets nest...
I apologize for nothing. Lol
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punchandpie
11-14-20, 20:43
yes, the .45's lesser mag capacity and greater recoil is a handicap, and everyone but you knows it is. I helped Cooper set up the IPSC and we deliberately handicapped the 9mm, but the top hands have become so good at staying in the A zone that the major-minor scoring handicap has been voided as to its utility.
Well lets just take a look at the the winners at single stack nationals for the last few years, looks like major power factor, 8 round mag have won how many? I'll wait for your reply.
I'll report on my 9mm 1911 experience so far. The point I'm making is that it doesn't have to expensive. I've had a Colt in .38 super auto since late 2012 and with a few light mods it has been fantastic. I have not babied it through 2+ 2000 round no new lube, no clean tests. Early this year I decided I wanted a 9mm 1911 so I looked and realized a new barrel was what was needed. I settled on a Brown drop in and had a local smith drop it in for me..
I wasn't totally reliable at first so I put it away for a while, just the occasional extraction issues. Recently I changed out the recoil spring to a 9-10# unit and viola ! It runs great now. Cycling very smoothly with everything from Wolf steel to my own 124gr. reloads. It shoots high at 25+yards so I'm looking for a new front sight but that's all it took to get a functional and reliable 1911. It is now a 3 caliber pistol; .38 super, 9x19 and .22lr with the separate top end.
It isn't fancy and the finish is worn and beaten but it runs and the Brown barrel is very accurate.
My .02
Where are the mods when you need them...
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Please don't! This is a nice break from the recent topics!!! [emoji16]
I am interested in hearing about all those guns that disappear from evidence rooms
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I apologize for nothing. Lol
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I know, but I tried... So when are you selling your P320s?
I know, but I tried... So when are you selling your P320s?
It may be awhile since I own zero of them.
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robstercraw
11-15-20, 12:18
I’ll speak to evidence rooms. I’ve been in this game for 27 years , both as a local and currently as a fed. I have never heard of a firearm disappearing From evidence. Narcotics on the other hand ? All the time. I had a partner years ago who was stealing it from evidence. She was subsequently arrested , fired and died of an overdose. Theft of evidence does occur ... just rarely is it a firearm
I have no idea and that's not what i was talking about, and you know it. Most matches are not stuck with a single stack requirement.
I've personally known people who've had it happen. One had an alloy commander and a Star PD seized and ordered to be destroyed. The PD was destroyed, but somehow the beautiullly smithed Commander never was. I had done the smithing, i had a very good LEO friend in texas who had a large collection of guns seized from guys who were happy to be let go without a charge , just the loss of their pos guns.
SeriousStudent
11-18-20, 08:47
tellum - when a mod tells you to stop, it means exactly that.
You are new here. You need to read more and post a hell of lot less.
You can ponder that while you are on vacation for a while.
I have a Stacatto P Duo and a Staccato C2 Duo, no issues in hundreds of rounds fired. Normally a 1911 guy (Guncrafter, Wilson), but my two Stacattos are pretty nice.
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