Project: Break My Advantage Arms Glock Conversion

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Hey guys,

I picked up an Advantage Arms conversion for my Glock 17 about three weeks ago. I plan to use this thread to keep a sort of shooting diary of my experience with the kit.


Before I bought this kit I already had a Ruger .22 pistol that I shot a bit with. For some reason, I never enjoyed it, although it was a tack driver. I guess I always felt I was sort of wasting time shooting with a platform I wouldn't use in defense. I asked Larry Vickers if he had any suggestions for Glock conversions at a class, and he suggested the Advantage Arms kit. I had to wait about 2 months for it to arrive so I was drooling when it arrived.

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/P1010004_3.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12279012520001

I was a teensy-bit disappointed when I opened the box and discovered the ammunition most readily available at my local Wal-Mart (Federal Value pack) was not recommended with the kit. But, the Remington "Golden Bullets" are easy to find and reasonably priced.


I have had the gun three weeks and have run 1650 rounds through the kit. I have learned a few things. One, they aren't kidding, Federal Ammo doesn't work very well in the kit. Two, all ammo is a bit picky in it. If you want it to run well it has to be run very wet. That is fine with me, I have a can of breakfree handy in my bag. Three, the gun is an absolute blast to shoot.

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/P1010035/web.jpg
This kit opens up a lot of new possibilities in shooting. A lot of things, like weak-handed shooting and shooting on the move, become much more practical to practice with this kit. Not to mention draw and fire practice. If you have a sort of psychological block, like I do, that encourages you to be as accurate as possible with each shot, you don't like to practice shooting on the move because your groups inevitably open up. With this kit the cost of such practice becomes so small as to not be an issue. Obviously, rapid-fire practice with this kit is sort of a waste of time, since the slide only recoils a little, but everything else is nearly perfect.

I always practice this drill with my guns (which was adapted from Ken Hackathorn)...

1. Shoot one shot, two shots, and three shots from a draw. Do this at 7, 15 and 25 yards.
2. Shoot one shot, two shots, and three shots from a draw. Do this while walking towards the target at 7, 15 and 25 yards.
3. As above but walk backwards.
4. As above but move laterally.
5. Shoot 15 rounds strong handed. Each shot from a draw at 7 yards.
6. As number 5 but week handed with 10 rounds.

This usually gets me through a 100 round value pack of 9mm or 45. I usually shoot my Glock 17 or HK45. After that I would usually shoot 100 rounds of bullseye at various ranges and some while I practice transitions from my carbine (a Colt running a Ciener kit.

Now I am devoting nearly 100 rounds to each stage. I am less methodical but I actually stress lateral and weak handed shooting. Plus I run a Pact timer and practice draw and shoot a singe round.

The kit comes with the adjustable Glock rear sight. Which is nice since the kit shot lower than my 9mm upper. I was able to adjust it to match my carry gun.

Now, instead of shooting around 3-400 rounds a weekend I can probably get better practce from shooting 550 rounds of Rimfire and 100 rounds of 9mm. I used to spend about $60 for 300 rounds of 9mm and now I can get even more trigger time (650 rounds) for $33. Not too shabby. At this rate, the kit has already paid for itself.

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/P1010036.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12279012920001

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/P1010039/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/P1010043.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12279012820001

[markm]

A guy I sometimes shoot with from TOS has one of these conversions. It's really pretty nice.

[M4arc]

Thanks for posting Greg! I know I love my AA kit and it's already paid for itself in ammo savings. Mine loves the Remington Golden Bullets from Wally World.

[ST911]

I have several AA kits for use in various classes. They have umpteen thousand rounds through them. Keep them wet, watch the mags, use recommended ammo, and they will run a long time.

[Vom Kriege]

One of those is on my "to get" list.

[DocH]

I understand that the mini mags work fine with the advantage arms kit too,as well as the Rem. goldens. I'm about to order one myself for my old G19.
Greg,I believe I worked with you at Bartow SO.Been a long time.:)

[Harv]

Hey Greg
Do you have a 6004 Holster you can try it in? or shoot with anyone that you can put it in and see how it fits.

I have heard that the AA kits on the G17's do not fit in Safari land 6004 holsters.

[HeadHunter]

Hey Greg
Do you have a 6004 Holster you can try it in? or shoot with anyone that you can put it in and see how it fits.

I have heard that the AA kits on the G17's do not fit in Safari land 6004 holsters.

We use the AA LE kits for part of our Basic course and issue the guns with 6004 holsters. They work just fine.

[ST911]

Hey Greg
Do you have a 6004 Holster you can try it in? or shoot with anyone that you can put it in and see how it fits. I have heard that the AA kits on the G17's do not fit in Safari land 6004 holsters.

Not Greg, but: I've had no problems putting them in duty holsters of any type, including the 6004.

[John_Wayne777]

Still waiting on mine....:(

[RickinAz]

Greg
The AA kit is on my list of things to get for my G19. I will be following your posts with interest. Thanks for posting your experiences.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I will be running a minimum of 550 rounds per week through it. This week I will probably do 1100 since I got to shoot yesterday and I may sneak off tomorrow. I have been trying to cut back on my ammo expenditures. I was shooting about 1000k .45 per month, plus about 400 rounds of .223 and usually about 1000 rounds of 9mm. That was, needless to say, pricey. Given the economy and the fact that ammo is absurdly overpriced I have been running a Ciener kit in my Colt for a while now. I used to shoot 100 rounds of full power .223 a weekend minimum. Sometimes a lot more if I had class or something. Now I shoot 550 rounds of rimfire and have slowely cut back to 40 rounds of full power stuff. That allows me to do a lot of 100 yards and in work. Tons of shooting on the move and CQB stuff cheap. I then shoot about 20 rounds doing CQB double taps and about 10 rounds at 100 and 10 at 200 for groups. It isn't a perfect system. But now I should be able to cut my shooting down to about $81 a trip with 2 boxes of .22 ($26) 1 box of 9mm ($20) about 100 rounds of .45 reloads ($21) and 40 rounds of .223 (14).

Yeah, this hobby is expensive. But, I don't go to football or baseball games or concerts. A lot of my friends are constantly going to GA or GA tech games. But then groan at the price of ammo when I suggest we go shooting. Priorities!

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/P1010011_3/web.jpg

Here is my buddy Angela who is brought out to shoot. She was scared to death of the "look" of AR until I convinced her to shoot the .22 kit. Later I had her shooting my AK and 45-70!

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/IMG_0041/web.jpg

[JediMindTricks]

Pretty cool, thanks for sharing!

[theblackknight]

sweet name jedi mind!


You seen the Vinny P Documentary spoof?

[Dan Goodwin]

Curious about two things, Greg.

As an accuracy fan, how well does the AA conversion group out to 25 yards or so?

Then, is anyone using one of these on a G26/27? A 27 is my issued & daily carry, and pondering purchasing personal 26 and set up as full-time sub-caliber trainer, with the option to shoot inexpensive 9mm if I change jobs/retire.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

The accuracy at 25 yards is more than acceptable but certainly not as good as my Ruger or as accurate as the same gun with the 9mm upper. I would say it is on par with a Walther P22. Next week I will do some comparison testing and post the results. I might do it today if it quits raining.

[ST911]

Curious about two things, Greg. As an accuracy fan, how well does the AA conversion group out to 25 yards or so?

Not Greg, but accuracy is service grade, 2-3" depending on the particular round.


Then, is anyone using one of these on a G26/27? A 27 is my issued & daily carry, and pondering purchasing personal 26 and set up as full-time sub-caliber trainer, with the option to shoot inexpensive 9mm if I change jobs/retire.

The subcompact units have all the same merits and liabilities of the larger units. If you've got a G26/27, get one.

[DrMark]

Greg,

The .22 conversion stuff is very cool. I look forward to following the progress.

However, the issue you've touched on with Angela is far more important. Getting new folks exposed to shooting is tremendous, and a very powerful tool for the long-term fight to maintain our rights. And, while it shouldn't matter, when these new folks are something other than white males, the benefits can be even more far-reaching.

Kudos Greg!

Mark

[doughnut]

I'm really looking forward to your evaluation of the AA kit. I recently (FINALLY!) found an AA kit for my G19. I was impressed by it's quality. I haven't had a chance to try it out but it looks promising. It's got to be an improvement over my previous .22, a Sig Mosquito.

[Bachelorjack]

I had one.

Super accurate.

Cleaning, or keeping it running, was challenging.

Suppressed they are a lot of fun.

I found the gun was too light weight for me to get any significant training done with it. It was fun on the golfcourse though....

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Shot 550 more "Golden Bullets" through my Advantage Arms kit. No malfunctions. I ran my drills as described above. I also used it as a transition gun when I shot my Ciener/Ar conversion.

I am ordering a "Specter" Suppressor so I can shoot my Glock and AR in the back yard without harassing the neighbors. What will I need to do to get my kit ready to shoot suppressed?

[DBake]

Anyone have any experiences using the AA kit with there 1911?

[VA_Dinger]

You cannot even order a Glock G19 or G17 AA conversion kit now.

They are listed as "Back Ordered" and they send you off to there dealers. God knows none of them has any in stock.

[UNIT 6639]

You cannot even order a Glock G19 or G17 AA conversion kit now.

They are listed as "Back Ordered" and they send you off to there dealers. God knows none of them has any in stock.

Va Arms had a 19 AA kit sitting behind the glass for a little while, I was going to buy it one day for a future 19 (that I bought Saturday) but when I went in to pick it up, someobody had already bought it :mad: .

Thats how it is for me, when I do not have funds to buy, stuff sits in the shop looking pretty, when I get cash in hand and come in, GONE!

But yea, I got rid of my MKIII because I wanted to get an AA kit for my 17 so I could practice with what I carry on the cheap.

I guess, I can save up the monies for an AA kit and bury it in the back yard, by the time they come backinstock, I can pull out the shovel!

[Mark71]

I recently bought a AA kit for my Glock 17 (while waiting for my Glock 19 kit) and love it! I have just about 700 rounds of CCI Mini Mags through the gun and it has been dead reliable with zero issues. Its a great training tool that is easy on the wallet with current ammo costs.

I have a Glock 19 kit on order that I am hoping will arrive soon. I placed the order over a month ago from a dealer and was told to expect approx 10-12 weeks. AA is extremely backed up which is why they are not even taking back orders off the site anymore.

[Ozzy]

Local shop here has kits for G20/21, G19, G17 and G26. Picked up a 17 conversion last week. LOVE IT.

I converted one of the mags to a 14 rounder, gonna give it a while to run before I convert my other mags.

Best purchase this year.

I just need an AR conversion now.

oz

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Add another 550 rounds of Golden Bullets. I am having some trouble dropping the slide with the slide catch. I am going to give it a thorough cleaning to see if the problem goes away.

I have been practicing multiple target drills. I have noticably improved my transition speed. Basically, the .22 kit seems useful for just about anything except doubletaps.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Guys,

Todd G was pointing out to me how you really can't get the same quality of practice from a .22 when transitioning from target to target. This is true. Even a 9mm recoils many times more forcefully than a 22. If you get too used to the fast sight recovery of the .22 it will likely result in bad habits. You can, however, get useful transition practice by putting a good amount of distance between you targets.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Coffe,

I was a PM discussion. There wasn't much other stuff relevant to this topic.

[Stan_TheGunNut]

I have a AA conversion kit for my G19. I like it a lot. As others have stated, it allows for cheap practice with your carry gun. At least you get used to the trigger pull and can focus on accuracy. Recoil is significantly less, so you still need to shoot centerfire. I just wish it came with more magazines. I had to order extras, and they aren't here yet.

Tornado Technologies can thread the barrel for a supressor if you have one. They do very good work.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Another 550 rounds of Goldens. It runs pretty good with the Golden bullets. However, I am still having the problem with a feedway jam when I drop it with the mag release. This is happening quite a bit. It doesn't happen if I only load 9 mags.

I tried American Eagle ammo today and it won't extract.

The above-noted points are not criticisms. I am just noting what is going on. The good news is, if you do what AA tells you to do (don't use Federal Ammo, etc) you are pretty good.

I ran some accuracy drills today. The unit is more accurate than I initially gave it credit for. I adjusted to sights (factory Glock adjustable) to have the exact POI as my 9mm upper. I finished up the day shooting stings at a 1 foot plate at 50 yards. I was able to keep a satisfying beat.

I also, after thinking about what Todd G said, I started moving my targets farther appart to minimize the advantage that rimfire gives you in transitions. I ended up placing two IPSC targets at 21 and 30 feet, about 15 feet apart. I am going to try and video tape the difference in recoil between .22 and 9mm tomorrow.

[DrMark]

I recently picked up an AA kit for my G17. Wasn't really looking for one, but happened to see one in a local shop and picked it up.

Ran a hundered rounds of Remington Golden Bullet HPs thru it -- worked great. Love it.

One mag? Not enough. Ordered a couple more.

[T.Shrewsbury]

I've used one of these for my 19 for nearly a decade and have always had good results. I usually run her suppressed w/ the Outback. Likes Subsonic CCI best.
A good friend back in ATLGA runs his on a 27 frame and loves it last I heard.

later........mr.t.in DFWTX

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

My suppressor paperwork finally came in the mail yesterday. Now to fill it out!

[doughnut]

Greg, any updates on your kit? I enjoy your reviews, just curious how it's coming along.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I stopped shooting it so much when I started shooting my M16 22 conversion and my 1911s more and more. I have been considering selling it to finance a 1911 22 conversion.

I haven't decided what I want to do. I have a .22 suppressor coming so I will be making a decision soon. Thanks for asking.

It has run great.

[Littlelebowski]

Greg, I'd sure appreciate it if you let me know when/if you're getting rid of it.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I ran 550 rounds of Rem Golden Bullets and 100 unknown lead nosed 22s through it today. I mainly used it to practice shooting steel spinners at 30 feet to 25 yards. It will not run with the Winchester 333s, which I ran through my Ciener/M16 conversion.

I really feel like the 22 conversion helps a lot with things like transitions and draw and fire. Of course, 22 isn't that easy to find in bulk right now, and especially not at any kind of reasonable price. Once the hordomaina passes, I plan to shoot even more 22.

[Sam]

Greg:
Why do you always want to break things? :) You should play with rocks.

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

I finally got my .22 conversion to work. I even put warren sights on it so the sight picture is the same as on my game gun.

I had tried the conversion initially with federal champion, high velocity, but that didn't work at all! If I was lucky I could go for a mag w/o failures, but that was close to a 1 in 10 shot.

I recently got my paws on some remington golden bullet and now my .22 conversion works! I love it, now I've just got to find some more. Changing ammo really made every difference in the world.

The slide dimensions are different from my stock Glock though, so its really snug in my comp-tac holster...oh well you can't win them all.

GU

[TAZ]

What kinds of faillures are you guys running into with the non Golden Bullet/MiniMag ammo. I have a kit on order for my G21 and am having a HARD time finding the Remington bulk packs any more. The Federal stuff can still be found :(

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

I was getting alot of Failures To Extract. I postulate that Extractor wasn't getting a good hook on the rim during feeding and I would have to drop the mag and run the slide a couple of times to get the case to eject. In one instance I even had to punch an expended case out with a section of coat hanger. Very few failures to feed but it got really really annoying trying to run the federal champion stuff. YMMV.

GU

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

This conversion is VERY picky. The Rem Golden's are the only thing that I have found that runs pretty well--and they are in short supply. I tried to run some Winchester 333s and not a single one would extract. On the flip side, my Ciener AR conversion runs on anything--which isn't their usual rep.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I shot up another box of Golden bullets. I need to find some more soon as I only have two more boxes in my stash. The only thing I can find around here is the Winchester 333s which are showing up in large numbers. I was able to pick up two boxes at Walley world last night. I left a few more boxes out of my continuing refusal to engage in hordonomics.

I have been practicing on 4 steel plates. I practice draw and shoot at 30 feet and 25 yards. I know a lot of folks poo-poo 25 yard practice for self defense but I figure it can't hurt. I also did a lot of shooting on the move practice and strong/weak hand practice. Folks, you need to get one of these things!

The extra good news was I had exactly ONE ftf with the golden bullets.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Hey guys,

I shot another 550 round box of Golden bullets on Sunday. I only have two boxes left so I won't be shooting much longer unless some more AA compatible bullets show up around here.

I have been practicing a lot on steel plates. One thing you can definitely practice well is draw and shoot. I shot about 1/3 of the box in raw draw and fire drills.

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

I had one FTE also, stuck in the chamber and had to run the slide a couple of times to get it to eject. All other rounds went great.

I like this conversion alot also. I look at it in a similar way to interval training to running. I find that I get a chance to manipulate the trigger at a higher speed because the sights are ready for me to prep the trigger and break the shot much faster as a consequence of the lower recoil. The 22 recoils just enough to disturb my sight picture and then its back on. I think its had a very positive effect on my full power 9mm shooting, less trigger jerking. if only I could shoot my 9mm as fast lol :D

I do alot of draw and fire in addition to strong and weak hand only shooting as well. I love practicing so cheap!

BTW... is anyone else having trouble with the conversion being a little tight in the holster? I have a comp-tac for my G34 and it works terrific with the actual gun, but the AA conversion is a bit tight, I've been pondering picking up a safariland custom fit paddle holster for it, thoughts?

GU

[doughnut]

For those of you who've changed out the sights that came with the kit, do you notice a dramatic difference in the POA/POI vs. the stock Glock Adj. sights?
I put a set of XS Big Dots to mirror my carry gun. My AA kit's POI is consistently 2.5"-3" lower since the addition of these sights, my 9mm G19 is POI/POA with the same sights. Is this a result of the caliber difference or another factor? I feel that it's going to have to be a compromise between accuracy (tighter groups, etc). vs. realism associated with my carry gun. Any suggestions?

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

I run warrens competition sights on my AA and the same on my 9mm. I haven't noticed a substantial difference...YMMV?

GU

[tpd223]

For those of you who've changed out the sights that came with the kit, do you notice a dramatic difference in the POA/POI vs. the stock Glock Adj. sights?
I put a set of XS Big Dots to mirror my carry gun. My AA kit's POI is consistently 2.5"-3" lower since the addition of these sights, my 9mm G19 is POI/POA with the same sights. Is this a result of the caliber difference or another factor? I feel that it's going to have to be a compromise between accuracy (tighter groups, etc). vs. realism associated with my carry gun. Any suggestions?


I have Big Dots on both my 9mms and my AA kit, no issues at all with POA/POI

[doughnut]

It's probably just me then. I was doing dot drills (20 1" dots at about 3 yards, five rounds per dot). When using my 9mm G19 w/ Big Dots I was shooting, tight groups within the dot itself, when I switched to the AA kit w/Big Dots I was still shooting tight groups but about 2" low into the dot below. This was consistent and why I thought it might have been the sights. I'm going to shoot it a bit more and see what developes.

My appologies if I drifted, but thanks for the answers.

[tpd223]

Don't second guess yourself too much. If you are grouping with the 9mm at POA=POI, then it may well be the sights, or that particular .22 ammo, instead of shooter error.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Hey guys,

Shot 200 rounds of Remington Thunderbolts and about 100 rounds of Golden Bullets through her today. Not a single malfunction (and I haven't cleaned it in forever.) I was thinking about selling it but I have changed my mind. It is just too useful for building up your confidence while shooting on the move, unusual positions, etc. Also, I ordered a Marvel conversion for my 1911 last week.

You can see the conversion on top of the "Ged," my green Glock.http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/IMG_0864/web.jpg?ver=12426036620001

[mpom]

I have an AA top end, marked LE19, which also fits my G27. Nice to have one 22 conversion kit fit 2 frame sizes. Do see a bit of the recoil spring with the kit on the G27, but so what.
Did have extraction issues at first. Decided the angle of "extractor bite" looked bad and thought more leverage on the case head might help. I ground down some of the extractor material that contacts the case, to reduce amount it is pushed away, and problem solved. Extraction problems are now very rare.
Accuracy is not quite as good as with centerfire versions, and nowhere near what I get with my High Standard, but good enough for self defense training. Barrel is not loose, so probably do to "generous" chamber.
Works flawlessy with CCI MiniMags.
Wish recoil was stiffer, to simulate centerfire ammo, as it is too easy to get used to minimal recoil, until I go back to "serious" calibers.
Also changed the sights to metal ones I had laying around. Dislike plastic sights.
Overall a good system, especially after minor tweaking of the extractor.

[John_Wayne777]

I'm going to start a thread called "Project: GET my Advantage Armes Glock Conversion" which will consist entirely of "Not here yet." "Nope, still not here." "Nada." and occasionally posting youtube video of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers singing "The Waiting"

Long long ago I ordered the AA kit through Top Glock for practice...but now with the ammo shortage even if I get it I can't use the damn thing.

Starting to get a LEEEEEETLEbit pissed off now...:mad:

[tpd223]

So you'll probably hate to hear how I went to the range today and my AA G17 kit worked great with both Remington bulk pack and CCI Mini Mags?

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

And I shot ~200 rounds of Goldens and about 200 more Thunderbolts. Easy Livin':D

[Ozzy]

Shoot me an email or IM about AA kits. I have a line on a couple of G17, G19 and Large frame kits.

Last I saw, they were 239.00 on the shelf and been sitting there for quite a while..

oz