Israel and United Arab Emirates Peace Treaty

[ColtSeavers]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53781360


Speaking to CBS News, Mr Kushner said the deal, unexpectedly announced on Thursday, would make the region safer.

It marks only the third Israeli-Arab peace treaty in the Middle East, and the first involving a Gulf state.

The international community has welcomed the deal, but Palestinians, Iran and Turkey have denounced it.

Israel and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) are expected the sign the deal in three weeks' time, normalising relations between the two countries, including opening embassies in each other's territory.


Thoughts?

Only way Israel would let them have a working nuclear power plant?

[26 Inf]

I think it is a good deal. It pissed Turkey off so that is good enough for me.

You can bet your ass the potential for peace in the ME will dwindle if the Dems take over.

President Trump just seems to keep on surprising folks.

[ColtSeavers]

President Trump just seems to keep on surprising folks.

First, a face to face deal with Kim Jong Un, now this? Legendary, and yet completely handwaived away by morons.

[BoringGuy45]

The UAE has long cared more about business than it has about being pragmatic about Islamic conquest or Pan-Arab nationalism. As long as the current government remains in place, it'll stay that way.

[Grand58742]

The UAE has long cared more about business than it has about being pragmatic about Islamic conquest or Pan-Arab nationalism. As long as the current government remains in place, it'll stay that way.

This. They certainly seem to be far more forward thinking than other nations around the Gulf region by realizing oil is finite and they won't last forever off it. Not only realizing it, but making the necessary adjustments now to sustain themselves for the day when oil is not needed as much.

I'll give props where props are due to both the Trump Admin and the two belligerents in this situation. They have a long, long, long way to go before peace is finally achieved, but little steps like this mean a lot in the big picture.

[Grand58742]

lol, imagine that:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-praises-israel-uae-peace-deal-trump


Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden on Thursday praised the Israel-United Arab Emirates peace deal announced by President Trump, but credited efforts of the Obama-Biden administration for the “historic step.”

Trump, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the United Arab Emirates Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed released a joint statement Thursday after Israel and the UAE agreed to normalize relations.

Biden, though, said that “the coming together of Israel and Arab states builds on the efforts of multiple administrations to foster a broader Arab-Israeli opening, including the efforts of the Obama-Biden administration to build on the Arab Peace Initiative.”

“I personally spent time with leaders of both Israel and the UAE during our administration building the case for cooperation and broader engagement and the benefits it could deliver to both nations, and I am gratified by today’s announcement,” Biden said in a statement Thursday. “It is a timely reminder that enmities and differences — even long standing ones — are not set in stone, and of the role American diplomacy can play.”

Funny, I didn't see Obama or Biden's name in the press release about the deal. But I will invoke a quote used from 2009-2017 that applies to the remarks of one Joe Biden.

"You didn't build that."

[pag23]

lol, imagine that:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-praises-israel-uae-peace-deal-trump



Funny, I didn't see Obama or Biden's name in the press release about the deal. But I will invoke a quote used from 2009-2017 that applies to the remarks of one Joe Biden.

"You didn't build that."

Bidens memory really is going...next he will take credit for the Berlin Wall collapse...his numerous lies are the truth to him..

[BoringGuy45]

This. They certainly seem to be far more forward thinking than other nations around the Gulf region by realizing oil is finite and they won't last forever off it. Not only realizing it, but making the necessary adjustments now to sustain themselves for the day when oil is not needed as much.

I'll give props where props are due to both the Trump Admin and the two belligerents in this situation. They have a long, long, long way to go before peace is finally achieved, but little steps like this mean a lot in the big picture.

They are a step above their Saudi neighbors in that most Islamic laws are not enforced on non-Muslim visitors: They serve alcohol at hotels, and non-Muslim women can go without headscarves and dress in Western clothes (though the locals apparently hate it, and the police WILL get involved if a woman is showing too much skin). That said, like all the surrounding states, they are still a human and civil rights mess; women are still not much more than property there, slavery is prevalent, and there are almost no rights to speak of. They're just smart enough not to screw with foreign visitors lest they kill their tourist industry.

[Grand58742]

They are a step above their Saudi neighbors in that most Islamic laws are not enforced on non-Muslim visitors: They serve alcohol at hotels, and non-Muslim women can go without headscarves and dress in Western clothes (though the locals apparently hate it, and the police WILL get involved if a woman is showing too much skin). That said, like all the surrounding states, they are still a human and civil rights mess; women are still not much more than property there, slavery is prevalent, and there are almost no rights to speak of. They're just smart enough not to screw with foreign visitors lest they kill their tourist industry.

I'd tend to think they will realize they need to move in the right direction so to speak. Provided, it's an absolute monarchy over there, so change might not come as fast as necessary. Such things will take time so long as the Shari'a is part of the judicial code.

Things have to move somewhat slowly in that part of the world. Too fast and you get Iran 1979.

[Averageman]

Nobel Peace Prize worthy, or after Obama does that even mean anything anymore?

[Slater]

Probably just opened up another potential market for Israeli weapons and equipment.

[ndmiller]

lol, imagine that:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-praises-israel-uae-peace-deal-trump



Funny, I didn't see Obama or Biden's name in the press release about the deal. But I will invoke a quote used from 2009-2017 that applies to the remarks of one Joe Biden.

"You didn't build that."

Right up there with Trump taking credit for Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014 which was signed 2 years before he got into office.


Probably just opened up another potential market for Israeli weapons and equipment.

BINGO, follow the money.

[BoringGuy45]

I'd tend to think they will realize they need to move in the right direction so to speak. Provided, it's an absolute monarchy over there, so change might not come as fast as necessary. Such things will take time so long as the Shari'a is part of the judicial code.

Things have to move somewhat slowly in that part of the world. Too fast and you get Iran 1979.

When it comes to the Arab countries, they are what they are, and they have been for a few millennia. Religiously and culturally, they aren't going to conform to any standards of respecting rights as we see fit in the West so long as Islam exists. As long as they're playing somewhat nice with Israel and the West and not starting shit that doesn't need to be started, that's the best we can hope for.

[yoni]

So much BS, that was what this deal is.

For a decade at least both Israelis and Jews from other countries were teaching at universities in the UAE.

A lot of Israelis have been in the UAE doing business for years.

So it is like this Bibi, get's out of annexing Judea and Samaria or at least parts of it, the so called West Bank.

The deal gives us embassies and potential tourist going both ways with direct flights.

I like the UAE, last year I had guys there working. The host paid for the hotel and food all 5 star. They said you can even put the call girls on the tab, but alcohol my guys had to pay for because they didn't want to answer for the booze, if the wrong people saw it.

Israeli security and weapons have been there for years.

But 99.99% of people don't know all the above, if obummer did this it would be a noble peace prize.

[hotrodder636]

Well Barakah U1 just went critical (critical is not a bad thing like the movies have made it out to be, just means that there is a stable chain reaction) for the first time on August 1. Unit 2 shouldn’t be far behind. I have many friends from the US working on those projects. I don’t think there is much Israel can/will do about them at this point.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53781360



Thoughts?

Only way Israel would let them have a working nuclear power plant?

[yoni]

So it seems that Prime Minister PeePee Nonutsinmypants couldn't get the UAE to place the embassy in Jerusalem. What a joke.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/285330

[Straight Shooter]

So much BS, that was what this deal is.

For a decade at least both Israelis and Jews from other countries were teaching at universities in the UAE.

A lot of Israelis have been in the UAE doing business for years.

So it is like this Bibi, get's out of annexing Judea and Samaria or at least parts of it, the so called West Bank.

The deal gives us embassies and potential tourist going both ways with direct flights.

I like the UAE, last year I had guys there working. The host paid for the hotel and food all 5 star. They said you can even put the call girls on the tab, but alcohol my guys had to pay for because they didn't want to answer for the booze, if the wrong people saw it.

Israeli security and weapons have been there for years.

But 99.99% of people don't know all the above, if obummer did this it would be a noble peace prize.

Well, I was all happy about the deal.. now Im..meh? at best.
Ive TRIED, HARD, to study, read & learn about all the conflicts and events past & present concerning Israel. I will NEVER travel outside America again...but if I did..only to Israel would it be, period. I yearn to see it. But, for the life of me, it seems for everything i think I "know"..I dont.
yoni- your words hold A LOT of sway here, with me anyway. I LIKE Bibi...but you dont, and I know you know more than I.
I guess my question is this- IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE to have an intelligent, truthful opinion for the average Joe about Israel and the middle East's affairs, without having been born & brought up there? Our media HATES Israel, so I know that much. But, gettng back to the deal...why is it bad? Whats Bibi's major malfuntions, if you wish to opine?
School me.

[yoni]

Here is my take on the deal;

Pro.

Exchange of embassies
Direct fights and communications
It should be the first of a bunch of Arab states doing the same
Puts pressure on Iran
Reminds the Palestinians, that other Arabs hate them more than any Israeli ever could. They don't figure into the future in the minds of other Arab states.

Con.
Israel had to put off annexing any part of Judea and Samaria. ( so called west bank) This is the heart land of biblical Israel, if the so called 2 state solution had a chance ever it died at least 20 years ago. Only people pushing 2 state solution is a small group of leftist Israelis, a large group of American Jews, Leftist in EU and USA.
The UAE embassy will not be in Jerusalem.
We really only got reality on the ground changed from de jour to de facto. Israeli and Jews have been living in the UAE for I think at least a decade. So what will change.

The Middle East has 2 major problems, Iran and the Palestinians. In Iran key infrastructure has been getting blown up for over the last 2 months, IAF over flies Iran 24/7. So Iran is going to get solved either by revolution from within, or at least Israel will take out enough of their nuke program to give us time for the people to revolt. This is the biggest reason to vote for Trump.

Palestinians, they are shit. They have cause untold death in Israel, they revolted against King Hussein, who they also tried to assassinate many times. Israel saved his life many times as well as the life of the current King his son. King Hussein used to fly himself to Israel alone and when asked why he didn't need security he said the Jews don't want to kill me the Palestinians do. In September 1970 Hussein had had enough and he killed more Palestinians than Israel has through out our history.
Arafat and company then ran to Lebanon, and upset the balance there, and the next thing you know civil war. They have never done anything worth while.

How many Nazi mothers wanted their children to blow themselves up to kill Jews? Answer none. Ask the same about Palestinians and it is a huge percent of the mothers.

They have given birth to a sick twisted society.

Why couldn't they years ago lay down terrorism and build a future together with us. To build a State that never was, that was inspired by an Egyptian homosexual that was into brutal sex with his body guards and rode terrorism into a 10,000,000,000 dollar Swiss bank account. It was a scam. When Barak at Camp David offered Arafat 98% of what he wanted Arafat turned him down. Palestinian Statehood is a scam like climate change.

[sundance435]

I think it is a good deal. It pissed Turkey off so that is good enough for me.

You can bet your ass the potential for peace in the ME will dwindle if the Dems take over.

President Trump just seems to keep on surprising folks.

Agree with all. Iran can inadvertently help towards Mideast peace if we continue to work it correctly. Qatar remains a problem to that end and the Saudi-led embargo is clearly not having the intended effect. The future of Saudi itself is also a huge ? and there are hundreds of outcomes there that could spell disaster for the world. Regardless, another Arab nation formally recognizing Israel is a step in the right direction.

[yoni]

Turkey, Iran and Palestinians are all super pissed.

That is a good thing.

If we would have got embassy in Jerusalem then annexation could be put off. But the message would be clear to the Palestinians you stole your future from yourselves . Good bye

[Coal Dragger]

Really curious how much of this deal between Israel and UAE was facilitated by US efforts, vs us just not stepping on our own dicks and getting in the way? It seems as if far too often US administrations want to insert their policy goals into agreements between other nations in the Middle East, violating the dictum that you shouldn’t let perfection stand in the way of good enough. Either way it’s a good start and anything that pisses in Iran or Turkeys’ Cheerios is probably a good thing.

[Grand58742]

Really curious how much of this deal between Israel and UAE was facilitated by US efforts, vs us just not stepping on our own dicks and getting in the way? It seems as if far too often US administrations want to insert their policy goals into agreements between other nations in the Middle East, violating the dictum that you shouldn’t let perfection stand in the way of good enough. Either way it’s a good start and anything that pisses in Iran or Turkeys’ Cheerios is probably a good thing.

As a reminder, the last Admin wanted to start at the 1967 borders and go from there.

There's something to be said about those who annex additional territory when they are legitimately attacked.

[yoni]

I guess my question is this- IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE to have an intelligent, truthful opinion for the average Joe about Israel and the middle East's affairs, without having been born & brought up there?
.

Here is the problem as I see it, understand I was born and raised in the USA, so once upon a time I was like most Americans. Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages. That is not a put down just a fact that comes from living behind 2 great big oceans. Countries are like people, they have a personality and also the biggest strength is also the biggest weakness. It just depends on the circumstances.

Now in Israel if a person finds themselves in certain places that person will not only learn Arabic, but also learn about Islam and Arabic culture. I am not talking 40 hours of instruction, I am talking about hundreds of hours of instruction over a career maybe thousands of hours.

It is not uncommon for these people to develop a love of Arabic literature, poetry or music. Also since Mohamed stole a lot of the ideas in Islam from the Jews of the area, Islamic ideas aren't as foreign to us. Also Arabic and Hebrew are related, not unlike Jews and Arabs. So we understand that to define a word in either language may take 3 or 4 paragraphs to do so, since the word might change it's meaning depending on how it is being used.

So when you add all of that together, with the basic facts of the world since G-D created mankind with a base nature to want things and to use power to get more things it all becomes a bit of a mess for outsiders to understand.

Lets take Israel, has we made mistakes along the way yep. But I will say our mistakes were just that for the most part, mistakes.An example of this the King David hotel, which was British military headquarters was blown up by Jews. I would say a legit military target in a war of Independence. A phone call was made to warn the British to get out of the building, it was not heeded. So a bunch of people got killed. This is just one example, we have more. Every country makes mistakes, I would say how the USA has fought the war on terror has been a huge mistake. Due to American mind set, the Bush administration thought they could force Jeffersonian democracy on A-stand and Iraq . I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

But how many cases of pure murder and terrorism come from the other side, too many to list.

I am ad conservative as one can get, I am an Orthodox Jew that believes that G-D in the Torah gave the land to my people. He also told us if you don't do what your supposed to do I will throw you out of the land and you will wander the world, getting crapped on, before I allow you to come back to the land.

We are the only people in the history of the world, to have lost our country and then regain it after 2000 years.

So how can people that come from a culture of global isolation, step in and understand such a mess.

I am sure sometimes the Middle East feels like I have felt while working in Africa. To save my life, I have never been able to see the physical differences in Africans that result from the different tribes. But they know it. I have lined up workers from different tribes and tried to understand it, impossible for me to do.
But I guess that is ok, I just have to be aware those differences in the minds of the Africans are great enough to at times butcher each other and sell each other in slavery.

[Straight Shooter]

Here is the problem as I see it, understand I was born and raised in the USA, so once upon a time I was like most Americans. Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages. That is not a put down just a fact that comes from living behind 2 great big oceans. Countries are like people, they have a personality and also the biggest strength is also the biggest weakness. It just depends on the circumstances.

Now in Israel if a person finds themselves in certain places that person will not only learn Arabic, but also learn about Islam and Arabic culture. I am not talking 40 hours of instruction, I am talking about hundreds of hours of instruction over a career maybe thousands of hours.

It is not uncommon for these people to develop a love of Arabic literature, poetry or music. Also since Mohamed stole a lot of the ideas in Islam from the Jews of the area, Islamic ideas aren't as foreign to us. Also Arabic and Hebrew are related, not unlike Jews and Arabs. So we understand that to define a word in either language may take 3 or 4 paragraphs to do so, since the word might change it's meaning depending on how it is being used.

So when you add all of that together, with the basic facts of the world since G-D created mankind with a base nature to want things and to use power to get more things it all becomes a bit of a mess for outsiders to understand.

Lets take Israel, has we made mistakes along the way yep. But I will say our mistakes were just that for the most part, mistakes.An example of this the King David hotel, which was British military headquarters was blown up by Jews. I would say a legit military target in a war of Independence. A phone call was made to warn the British to get out of the building, it was not heeded. So a bunch of people got killed. This is just one example, we have more. Every country makes mistakes, I would say how the USA has fought the war on terror has been a huge mistake. Due to American mind set, the Bush administration thought they could force Jeffersonian democracy on A-stand and Iraq . I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

But how many cases of pure murder and terrorism come from the other side, too many to list.

I am ad conservative as one can get, I am an Orthodox Jew that believes that G-D in the Torah gave the land to my people. He also told us if you don't do what your supposed to do I will throw you out of the land and you will wander the world, getting crapped on, before I allow you to come back to the land.

We are the only people in the history of the world, to have lost our country and then regain it after 2000 years.

So how can people that come from a culture of global isolation, step in and understand such a mess.

I am sure sometimes the Middle East feels like I have felt while working in Africa. To save my life, I have never been able to see the physical differences in Africans that result from the different tribes. But they know it. I have lined up workers from different tribes and tried to understand it, impossible for me to do.
But I guess that is ok, I just have to be aware those differences in the minds of the Africans are great enough to at times butcher each other and sell each other in slavery.

Most excellent response. I think many here dont know because they dont CARE..couldnt give a damn about "shit goin on over there since before Jesus was born", as Ive heard it said many times. I DO care.
I was blessed to have seen a good bit of the world whilst in the Marine Corps. Those sights, sounds and smells have stayed with me all these years now. Ive seen more since. People speak from pure ignorence...I have too. I know people who've never been no further than a state or two away from where they were born and they act like they are world travellers. People who've never seen an ocean...or a real mountain like the Rockies..not the Smokies...they think they know everything.
But, getting back to Israel...I just admire that country so much. I LOVE the required military service. The medical advances. The grit of a people surrounded by others who want to kill every last man, woman & child. Its where MY Lord & Master lived & walked. Id so love to go and stay awhile. But-itll never happen.
I appreciate your long response yoni- always like to hear your thoughts.

[yoni]

One more reason to not be trilled about the deal, it seems the USA will now sell F35's to UAE.

On one hand we have never fought a war with UAE. We now have a peace deal with UAE, so what is the problem?

It is hard to break a mind set, where watching potential enemies get the best war plane on the planet and not be concerned.

[fred]

Here is the problem as I see it, understand I was born and raised in the USA, so once upon a time I was like most Americans. Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages. That is not a put down just a fact that comes from living behind 2 great big oceans. Countries are like people, they have a personality and also the biggest strength is also the biggest weakness. It just depends on the circumstances.

Now in Israel if a person finds themselves in certain places that person will not only learn Arabic, but also learn about Islam and Arabic culture. I am not talking 40 hours of instruction, I am talking about hundreds of hours of instruction over a career maybe thousands of hours.

It is not uncommon for these people to develop a love of Arabic literature, poetry or music. Also since Mohamed stole a lot of the ideas in Islam from the Jews of the area, Islamic ideas aren't as foreign to us. Also Arabic and Hebrew are related, not unlike Jews and Arabs. So we understand that to define a word in either language may take 3 or 4 paragraphs to do so, since the word might change it's meaning depending on how it is being used.

So when you add all of that together, with the basic facts of the world since G-D created mankind with a base nature to want things and to use power to get more things it all becomes a bit of a mess for outsiders to understand.

Lets take Israel, has we made mistakes along the way yep. But I will say our mistakes were just that for the most part, mistakes.An example of this the King David hotel, which was British military headquarters was blown up by Jews. I would say a legit military target in a war of Independence. A phone call was made to warn the British to get out of the building, it was not heeded. So a bunch of people got killed. This is just one example, we have more. Every country makes mistakes, I would say how the USA has fought the war on terror has been a huge mistake. Due to American mind set, the Bush administration thought they could force Jeffersonian democracy on A-stand and Iraq . I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

But how many cases of pure murder and terrorism come from the other side, too many to list.

I am ad conservative as one can get, I am an Orthodox Jew that believes that G-D in the Torah gave the land to my people. He also told us if you don't do what your supposed to do I will throw you out of the land and you will wander the world, getting crapped on, before I allow you to come back to the land.

We are the only people in the history of the world, to have lost our country and then regain it after 2000 years.

So how can people that come from a culture of global isolation, step in and understand such a mess.

I am sure sometimes the Middle East feels like I have felt while working in Africa. To save my life, I have never been able to see the physical differences in Africans that result from the different tribes. But they know it. I have lined up workers from different tribes and tried to understand it, impossible for me to do.
But I guess that is ok, I just have to be aware those differences in the minds of the Africans are great enough to at times butcher each other and sell each other in slavery.

I appreciate that response, as well as the skepticism. Peace treaties were made to be broken, after all. I just hope that it's the beginning of a realignment against Iran that can withstand what seems to be looming depression and chaos. We'll see.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

One more reason to not be trilled about the deal, it seems the USA will now sell F35's to UAE.

On one hand we have never fought a war with UAE. We now have a peace deal with UAE, so what is the problem?

It is hard to break a mind set, where watching potential enemies get the best war plane on the planet and not be concerned.

We are going to sell them F 22s? ;). The F 35 as a fighter plane sucks balls, as an integrated part of the air defense and offense system, it’s a pretty slick little plane. If to fully reach its potential it has to be operated in a very complex system based on intelligence and US assets, the utility is there only if they cooperate with us. At least that’s how I read it.


What I like about this treaty is that it is a reflection of the reality. Too many treaties are aspirational in that they don’t reflect the reality, but what people would rather things be. Or they are just dodges until the next war. Treaties are like morals, people hold him in high regard and is being sacrosanct , but they break them when it’s expedient.

[rjacobs]

Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages.

That sums up A LOT of the reasons we are having the domestic problems we have currently as well...

I have travelled the world and been just about everywhere except Antarctica...

I have a very different view of a lot of things vs. most of my friends who have barely left the metroplex of Dallas-Ft. Worth...

[chadbag]

One more reason to not be trilled about the deal, it seems the USA will now sell F35's to UAE.


I wonder how well those F35s will run without maintenance and spare parts etc (if the UAE breaks the wrong direction)...

Iran has kept their F14 fleet running through cannibalization etc. but an F35 is like modern times compared to the stone age F14 in terms of technology and staying in the air.

Here's to hoping the UAE stays sane and other Arab countries follow suit in making peace.

[Artos]

I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

yoni, how is daily life compare for the people of Iraq pre / post Sadaam days & how does Israel feel about Iraq's role in the region now??

[Dr. Bullseye]

Here is the best part of the deal:

The USA did not bribe both parties with 3 billion dollars like Jimmy Carter did.
The USA did not commit to the defense of anyone.
The USA is not involved.

[yoni]

Iraq is an enemy of Israel.

Quality of life for Iraqis now verse during Sadaam's time. I think it is probably like USSR during Stalin and after. If the dictator and his secret police is not after you, life some what sucks but it is stable.

Iraq has no role in the region, the best role Iraq had was to be a buffer against Iran. Which George Bush destroyed, which is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. The President goes to war against a country that had done nothing against the USA. Some say for the oil, well then why isnt the oil going to the USA at lower than market rate to pay back the USA.

It was evil to go to war in Iraq!

[Artos]

sigh...would be fun to have a magic ball & see what the region would be like today if it had never happened. I'm sure there is a money trail amigo that would spell out it out but it's just onward & forward at this point. Was hoping for news the area was much improved for the masses but suspected as much.

[ColtSeavers]

Iraq is an enemy of Israel.

Quality of life for Iraqis now verse during Sadaam's time. I think it is probably like USSR during Stalin and after. If the dictator and his secret police is not after you, life some what sucks but it is stable.

Iraq has no role in the region, the best role Iraq had was to be a buffer against Iran. Which George Bush destroyed, which is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. The President goes to war against a country that had done nothing against the USA. Some say for the oil, well then why isnt the oil going to the USA at lower than market rate to pay back the USA.

It was evil to go to war in Iraq!

Finishing Daddy's business.

[yoni]

Finishing Daddy's business.

So American military members were killed and maimed, in Iraq to finish daddy's business?

I am not doubting the truth of this.

What bothers me is Bush is walking around free, making money, living life.

The most immoral thing a President can do is take his nation to war for less than a valid reason. I support a Constitutional change, " A President and/or Congress that takes the nation to violence against foreign nationals/ nation states, and it is later know they lied about Casus Beili, the lives of all government officials voting for such violence and the lives of their families will be eliminated in a public manor"

[titsonritz]

And now Sudan. This Trump guy is out of control. I wonder how many more Nobel Peace Prizes he'll be nominated for and not receive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzZt_fnNn24

[SteyrAUG]

Finishing Daddy's business.

Actually it was Bush 41 who fuxored our alliance with Iraq in the first place. Bush 43 simply doubled down.

Say what you want about Saddam, yes he was a brutal dictator who tortured and killed anyone who stood in his way, but wasn't that also true of the Shah? And at the end of the day, Saddam presided over a secular, mostly moderate Arab republic that allowed women in government even.

Not saying he was our best buddy, but if you are looking for a stable arab state with kinda democracy, Iraq was it and and close as that region gets. But we F'ed it all up because we wouldn't take a position on the Iraq / Kuwait oil dispute and Saddam believed we had given him a green light to handle his business in Kuwait.

Really all Saddam expected of us was to buy his oil, even though it cost more than Kuwaiti oil because the Iran / Iraq war had devastated his finances and he strongly believed he fought that war on our behalf as well as his own and was just looking for a little reinvestment in the alliance.

When we told him thanks, have a nice day, he felt butthurt X 27 to the 8th.

When he believed we gave him a wink and a nod to go settle accounts with Kuwait he thought we threw him a bone, when we gave him a deadline to vacate Kuwait he then believed we set him up and betrayed him.

It could have all easily been avoided. If April Glaspie could have remembered who she was talking to and chose better words (ie: been qualified for her job) Saddam would still be running things today and he Iraq would be a base of operations in the current war on terror. Iran would still be hard checked and absolutely NO nuclear program of any kind.

[flenna]

And now Sudan. This Trump guy is out of control. I wonder how many more Nobel Peace Prizes he'll be nominated for and not receive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzZt_fnNn24

Any other time in our history and this would be front page news with accolades for the President. But the communist infiltration of our MSM, education systems and political system is complete, so it isn't.

[Averageman]

So how much of this is due to the United States oil production?