View Full Version : NX8 vs Razor III for AR10
https://i.ibb.co/wp2ZqSz/20190416-084828.jpg (https://ibb.co/8PQnwr7)
So I have an M&P10 currently wearing a Trijicon RS27 Accupower 1-8x24. While I like the Accupower, I have two major gripes:
1- illumination sucks
2- very very heavy, especially with my choice of mount
So with that said, I'm considering selling it and getting one of the optics mentioned in the title. I know that the NX8 is very light and handy, especially with a 30mm mount, but it seems like the eye box is considered to be too small for .308 use. Were I to get this, I would probably get a LaRue mount.
I'm also considering the Razor Gen III. It's a bit bigger and heavier, but seems like it would not suffer from any eye box issues. If I get this, I guess I would re-use my current mount, or get a Bobro single lever 34mm mount. QD is mandatory for this rifle.
Both have reticles that I'm okay with, though I do like the NX8 one better due to the longer and bolder "T" lines. Both seem to have great illumination.
Thoughts on these two for my application? Again, my goal is something that is noticeably lighter, and has daylight visible illumination for close range shooting. Without both of these improvements, it's not worth it for me to change the optic at all.
For the record, this is a general purpose, mid-range thumper.
Thanks
I have two NX8s and it's great on 5.56 AR-15s, but I'm not sure I would like it on a AR-10. As it is a bit less forgiving that the Razor II/III lineup.
vicious_cb
08-16-20, 00:02
So I have an M&P10 currently wearing a Trijicon RS27 Accupower 1-8x24. While I like the Accupower, I have two major gripes:
1- illumination sucks
2- very very heavy, especially with my choice of mount
So with that said, I'm considering selling it and getting one of the optics mentioned in the title. I know that the NX8 is very light and handy, especially with a 30mm mount, but it seems like the eye box is considered to be too small for .308 use. Were I to get this, I would probably get a LaRue mount.
I'm also considering the Razor Gen III. It's a bit bigger and heavier, but seems like it would not suffer from any eye box issues. If I get this, I guess I would re-use my current mount, or get a Bobro single lever 34mm mount. QD is mandatory for this rifle.
Both have reticles that I'm okay with, though I do like the NX8 one better due to the longer and bolder "T" lines. Both seem to have great illumination.
Thoughts on these two for my application? Again, my goal is something that is noticeably lighter, and has daylight visible illumination for close range shooting. Without both of these improvements, it's not worth it for me to change the optic at all.
For the record, this is a general purpose, mid-range thumper.
Thanks
With the NX8 vs Gen III you are basically trading performance at 1x for less size and weight. The Razor series in general has the closest to RDS performance out of the two with scope body at the edges just disappearing, wide FOV and forgiving eye box. The NX8 is more like looking through a tube: lots of scope body visible around the edges, smaller FOV and eye placement needs to be a bit more precise but not as bad as people say.
CubeWarrior
08-16-20, 19:28
I have an NX8 on my AR and love it. The reticle at 8x is too thick to drive with precision past 600y.
I believe they’ve come in price around the cost of a Razor or NX8, but have you considered the Elcan TR? You obviously trade some pros and cons, but it’s an option if it works for your eyes due to the lack of a diopter.
vicious_cb
08-17-20, 01:17
I believe they’ve come in price around the cost of a Razor or NX8, but have you considered the Elcan TR? You obviously trade some pros and cons, but it’s an option if it works for your eyes due to the lack of a diopter.
The glass quality of the Elcan is no where near the two he listed. Also ARMs mounts. :p
I briefly considered the Elcan. Very briefly.
Right now, I'm pretty much decided on the Razor Gen III MOA. It seems to do everything that I want, and the BDC style hybrid reticle is really cool. Not as light as I wanted, but if I swap both my scope and mount out and get a LaRue LR204, I'll be saving a total of 9ish ounces, and that's pretty good.
Something to consider is that Razor Gen 3 is incredibly hard to find right now. Common sources I turn to are saying things like: "29 people ahead of you, backordered", or "Wait time is 180 days minimum", etc. As a result, the tiny trickle of them that you see on places like GB (example (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876707982)), they are charging above the standard retail price of $1999.
If you want the scope now, I'd find something else. Me personally, I wouldn't choose the NX8 either, if you research around a bit, it's known to have some issues although you also see folks as in this thread that say they love theirs. Personally if you can live with less than 1-10, I'd be looking at a 1-6 or 1-8 with a good reticle, by any of the usual suspects.
ETA these would be two I'd check out for 1-8 with excellent glass: NF ATACR (https://www.nightforceoptics.com/riflescopes/atacr/atacr-1-8x24-f1), or Kahles 18i (https://www.sportoptics.com/kahles-rifle-scope-k18i-10662.aspx).
The glass quality of the Elcan is no where near the two he listed. Also ARMs mounts. :p
The TR doesn’t use the ARMS mount. It’s still externally adjustable, but not the mount you get on the DR.
FYI...I purchased a Razor Gen III from SportOptics yesterday afternoon, and got it for $1739, shipped. It arrives this week. To get the discount of 13% I had to call in and ask for it.
FWIW
FYI...I purchased a Razor Gen III from SportOptics yesterday afternoon, and got it for $1739, shipped. It arrives this week. To get the discount of 13% I had to call in and ask for it.
FWIW
That's the place that I contacted yesterday afternoon and was given a backorder, saying there were 29 ahead of me. They are out.
I'm fine with waiting. I need to sell my setup first anyway. But the BDC is what really sold me on that optic, so I'm pretty much decided on it.
I have an NX8 on my AR and love it. The reticle at 8x is too thick to drive with precision past 600y.
I prefer to use the reticle to shoot long distance vs dialing with my NX8. I think it would be fine but not sure if the best or not. Lots of opinions to consider. Good luck.
PB
Razor Gen III is the way to go. Take a look on the other site, there has been a bunch of them for sale lately. The other thing to look at, especially if you don't plan on doing much shooting on 1x, is the PST Gen II 2.5x10x. Kyle Defoor loves this optic for guns in that midrange target distance.
Razor Gen III is the way to go. Take a look on the other site, there has been a bunch of them for sale lately. The other thing to look at, especially if you don't plan on doing much shooting on 1x, is the PST Gen II 2.5x10x. Kyle Defoor loves this optic for guns in that midrange target distance.
What are they going for over there? I feel pretty good about getting it for $1700 or so.
sidewaysil80
08-27-20, 12:03
What are they going for over there? I feel pretty good about getting it for $1700 or so.
That's a hair cheaper then with the Vortex mil/leo discount, so yeah, I'd feel good about that price as well lol.
Hammer_Man
08-28-20, 14:50
I’m considering the Vortex Gen III for a 20” 308 I’m building. Is this enough scope for a 308 DMR type rifle, or should I step up to a Gen II 3-18? I plan to shoot out to 500 yards on the regular, and maybe push out to 900 - 1000 yards when the opportunity arises.
I’m considering the Vortex Gen III for a 20” 308 I’m building. Is this enough scope for a 308 DMR type rifle, or should I step up to a Gen II 3-18? I plan to shoot out to 500 yards on the regular, and maybe push out to 900 - 1000 yards when the opportunity arises.
I'd want more for a 20" large frame gas gun. Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 is worth a look for a smaller footprint and way less weight (seriously, 20 ounces less...). I've got a little time behind the Gen II 3-18 and it's a great piece of glass but dang...it makes an already heavy platform much heavier.
I'd want more for a 20" large frame gas gun. Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 is worth a look for a smaller footprint and way less weight (seriously, 20 ounces less...). I've got a little time behind the Gen II 3-18 and it's a great piece of glass but dang...it makes an already heavy platform much heavier.
Exactly this. For that 20" 308, you'll want to stretch it out a bit, and that extra magnification of that particular Leupy model will do the job. I've read recent reviews of that specific scope on the Hide, in fact I was weighing between that one and the NF NX8 2.5-20x for my Grendel. The NF won--barely--on features and reticle. But it seemed to be consensus that the Leupy has the slightly superior glass.
Hammer_Man
08-28-20, 22:35
I'd want more for a 20" large frame gas gun. Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 is worth a look for a smaller footprint and way less weight (seriously, 20 ounces less...). I've got a little time behind the Gen II 3-18 and it's a great piece of glass but dang...it makes an already heavy platform much heavier.
Exactly this. For that 20" 308, you'll want to stretch it out a bit, and that extra magnification of that particular Leupy model will do the job. I've read recent reviews of that specific scope on the Hide, in fact I was weighing between that one and the NF NX8 2.5-20x for my Grendel. The NF won--barely--on features and reticle. But it seemed to be consensus that the Leupy has the slightly superior glass.
I’ve been looking pretty hard at the Mark 5 as well. For the money I get more with the Razor, as anything with illumination on the Mark 5 goes over $2k it seems. $2k is my max budget for optic, to include the mount.
Yep gotta do what's right for your rifle. I'm guess if your experiences end up like mine, you'll end up wishing for more magnification on anything above a 5.56 that you plan to shoot beyond 400-500y. Another one to consider--awesome glass and features if on a budget--this Vortex. Their MRAD reticle is excellent.
https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-viper-pst-gen-2-3-15x44-ffp-riflescope.html?vortex_reticle=1503
Hammer_Man
09-02-20, 01:39
I looked at those as well, I’m just not convinced on an optic made in the Philippines. Not yet anyway. For the money it’s a tremendous value, so I haven’t written it off yet. I just wish Leupold had something similar for about the same cost.
I’ve kind of broken it down like this:
Money no object:
Steiner M7xi, S&B 5-25
$2000 to $2400:
Leupold Mark 5, or Razor AMG
$1200 to $1900:
Razor HD 5-20, Razor HD II 4.5-27
Budget:
Vortex PST II 3-15.
There’s good deals to be had in the used market. 4-16x42 ATACR’s are regularly posted for sale under your $2k budget.
My Razor GIII 1-10 from Sport Optics will be arriving tomorrow. Looking forward to getting it mounted! I also changed over to a LaRue LT204 to save weight, about 8 ounces total from the Accupower.
https://i.ibb.co/zr8hKs4/20200912-190620.jpg (https://ibb.co/47sZBWV)
https://i.ibb.co/020DXnz/20200913-113840.jpg (https://ibb.co/jfC658j)
https://i.ibb.co/rGkHVWr/20200912-184853.jpg (https://ibb.co/svjqZBY)
https://i.ibb.co/4F3bvWf/20200912-190505.jpg (https://ibb.co/6yLK9YZ)
Here's my new setup. I really like it.
The good:
--Noticeably lighter than my old setup. The Accupower was about 4 ounces heavier, and so was the Bobro mount. In total I've saved about 1/2 lb, which I can feel.
--So much brighter... Actually useful during the day! Feels almost like an Aimpoint on 1X. The brightest setting on the Accupower was about as bright as 7 out of 11 on the Razor. Also locking brightness knob, nice.
--I love the wind holds on the reticle, and pretty much everything about the reticle itself. The translucent center portion is a really cool innovation.
I much prefer the BDC to the MOA that I had on the Accupower. No need to memorize (and forget) that anymore, back to BDCs like everything else that I have (ACOGs).
The bad:
--On lower magnifications with the reticle off, the thick crosshairs on the outer edges, which are supposed to be used to "bracket" the target, don't come close enough in to the center reticle. I like how the NX8 is setup for this. It's also very difficult to read the subtentions on anything less than 6.
--Not as clear or bright image as the Accupower. That had noticeably better optical clarity and eyebox. Most noticeable, however, is the light transmission. At about 7x, it starts to get quite dark, and on 10x it's like looking through sunglasses. So the Accupower is better in this regard for sure.
Eye relief is similar, on the edge of being almost too much. If I was using a 5.56 receiver, I would need a super extended mount like the LaRue LT239 for sure.
--Turret design was much better on the Accupower. Loved the simple and locking turrets, that could be rezeroed without tools.
But all in all, I'm happy with my purchase and the setup now. There's always a give and take, but the weight savings and brightness were definitely worth it.
What height mount are you using? Looks great.
What height mount are you using? Looks great.
It's a 1.5" mount. On other styles of optics, I can appreciate higher mounts, but on this I wouldn't want anything higher.
It's a 1.5" mount. On other styles of optics, I can appreciate higher mounts, but on this I wouldn't want anything higher.
For prioritizing prone shooting?
That's my assumption, he intends to be using it prone more as a DMR, etc.
For prioritizing prone shooting?
Yes, but also standing and really anything. With this optic, it's important to have a repeatable and stable head position due to the eyebox, and it definitely feels like anything higher would be worse overall, but especially prone.
I like my compact ACOGs in high mounts, but this will stay at 1.5.
Chrisreedrules
09-23-20, 18:51
I’m interested in purchasing a Razor HD Gen 3 1-10X with MRAD. If anyone is selling one or knows where it is in stock please PM me.
Clyde armory had them in stock. Call to verify as their website isn’t kept up to date.
Chrisreedrules
09-23-20, 19:04
Thanks!
CubeWarrior
09-25-20, 20:25
An S&B 3-12 PMII is more than enough to drive an SR25/AR10 to 1K. I love 5-25x scopes on my bolt guns, but its probably too much for an AR10.
sidewaysil80
09-26-20, 11:56
An S&B 3-12 PMII is more than enough to drive an SR25/AR10 to 1K. I love 5-25x scopes on my bolt guns, but its probably too much for an AR10.
I def agree. I think 2.5-10 or 3-12/15 is the sweet spot for an AR-10/precision orientated gas-gun...especially with a 40-44x objective. I think the LPVO, specifically 1x- movement is best suited on general use/jack of all trades builds, not precision/mostly long range use. But hey, what do I know lol.
ExplorinInTheWoods
10-06-20, 21:17
https://i.ibb.co/zr8hKs4/20200912-190620.jpg (https://ibb.co/47sZBWV)
https://i.ibb.co/020DXnz/20200913-113840.jpg (https://ibb.co/jfC658j)
https://i.ibb.co/rGkHVWr/20200912-184853.jpg (https://ibb.co/svjqZBY)
https://i.ibb.co/4F3bvWf/20200912-190505.jpg (https://ibb.co/6yLK9YZ)
Here's my new setup. I really like it.
The good:
--Noticeably lighter than my old setup. The Accupower was about 4 ounces heavier, and so was the Bobro mount. In total I've saved about 1/2 lb, which I can feel.
--So much brighter... Actually useful during the day! Feels almost like an Aimpoint on 1X. The brightest setting on the Accupower was about as bright as 7 out of 11 on the Razor. Also locking brightness knob, nice.
--I love the wind holds on the reticle, and pretty much everything about the reticle itself. The translucent center portion is a really cool innovation.
I much prefer the BDC to the MOA that I had on the Accupower. No need to memorize (and forget) that anymore, back to BDCs like everything else that I have (ACOGs).
The bad:
--On lower magnifications with the reticle off, the thick crosshairs on the outer edges, which are supposed to be used to "bracket" the target, don't come close enough in to the center reticle. I like how the NX8 is setup for this. It's also very difficult to read the subtentions on anything less than 6.
--Not as clear or bright image as the Accupower. That had noticeably better optical clarity and eyebox. Most noticeable, however, is the light transmission. At about 7x, it starts to get quite dark, and on 10x it's like looking through sunglasses. So the Accupower is better in this regard for sure.
Eye relief is similar, on the edge of being almost too much. If I was using a 5.56 receiver, I would need a super extended mount like the LaRue LT239 for sure.
--Turret design was much better on the Accupower. Loved the simple and locking turrets, that could be rezeroed without tools.
But all in all, I'm happy with my purchase and the setup now. There's always a give and take, but the weight savings and brightness were definitely worth it.
Did you have red or green illumination on your scope and was it MOA or MRAD and are you still trying to sell it?
Did you have red or green illumination on your scope and was it MOA or MRAD and are you still trying to sell it?
It was red, MOA. It sold and the funds went to buying this Razor Gen III.
Yep gotta do what's right for your rifle. I'm guess if your experiences end up like mine, you'll end up wishing for more magnification on anything above a 5.56 that you plan to shoot beyond 400-500y. Another one to consider--awesome glass and features if on a budget--this Vortex. Their MRAD reticle is excellent.
https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-viper-pst-gen-2-3-15x44-ffp-riflescope.html?vortex_reticle=1503I have this scope on a 556 dmr. It is a good budget option. I got mine on sale for 650 from scheels if I remember correctly.
Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk
ExplorinInTheWoods
10-11-20, 02:42
I got to look through the razor 1-10 and the NF ATACR 1-8 side by side. The razor is more or a dot on 1x while the NF is a bigger dot. The NF center point of the reticle on 8x is a pretty big dot while the razor seemed smaller. But on the higher end of the magnification the razor doesn’t seem to have the same glass clarity and brightness of the NF.
I got to look through the razor 1-10 and the NF ATACR 1-8 side by side. The razor is more or a dot on 1x while the NF is a bigger dot. The NF center point of the reticle on 8x is a pretty big dot while the razor seemed smaller. But on the higher end of the magnification the razor doesn’t seem to have the same glass clarity and brightness of the NF.
I definitely agree with this. On high magnification, the Razor gets pretty dim. 6 or below is fine, but between 6-10 the clarity and eyebox really drop off.
bulletproofwelding_1
10-18-20, 20:48
I have the NX8 on a Scar and it is fast on target, light I will buy another one for a AR10.
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