View Full Version : Springfield Armory FBI Professional or Wilson/Nighthawk
Eurodriver
08-15-20, 19:32
I just got bit by the 1911 bug hard. I want an heirloom quality 1911 in 45 ACP (I’ve heard this is now called AARP lol) that shoots great and is reliable.
Springfield Armory just strikes me as not at the same level as Nighthawk and other custom makers, so I’m hesitating despite hearing many good things about their FBI Pro model. $3k feels like a lot of coin for a SA. The association with the FBI means nothing to me - I’m not in the FBI so I don’t care what they use I just want a very good 1911.
Just talking about the gun itself. Any good?
Edit: apparently I was dead wrong! SACS seems very good to go. I made the new guy mistake thinking all SA guns are the same!
Springfield Custom Shop guns are to what regular Springfield's are as the Corvette ZR1 is to the Impala.
The Professional is an expertly hand fitted gun built to a very high standard. The price is roughly "worth" what a comparable gun is from Nighthawk or Wilson or Baer or any other relatively big name, not quite "artisan" level shop (places that are one guy working alone and building $5k or $10k guns).
That said, you might be happier with one of the other doors where you will have some say in the configuration of your gun. The Pro is a custom shop gun built with a specific set of features and standards. All of the build quality and none of the fun of filling out a build sheet. If you're looking for something you can pass down, maybe there's more to be said for it being "your" configuration the way you wanted it than "the same kind of gun FBI tactical team guys carried."
The other thing to consider is that the spec on the Pro was set twenty-ish years ago and may not really reflect the "best choice" for its intended role today. The same way the Mk18 or SOPMOD M4 are somewhat frozen in time. You also have to consider how it's changed over the years. Walt Birdsong died so the Black T finish you get now isn't truly "Birdsong's Black T" and Springfield ditched Nowlin barrels in maybe 2010ish because they apparently can make their own barrels "just as good" but cheaper. The Pro has received renewed interest in the last couple years because there are a lot more of them making it to the retail market. When I got mine in 2007 or 2008, they were tough to find for sale without ordering and waiting. Now, major wholesalers have them available today (even with the shortages on everything else).
donlapalma
08-16-20, 14:18
My 1911 ownership started with TRP. Then I went to a Dan Wesson Specialist in 9mm. Sold them all and tried to be all "Never gonna own a gun that I don't intend to carry." But then got bit by the bug again, like you now.
I waited for a long time but ultimately scored a deal on a used light rail Pro in 45 with a bunch of extra mags for $2,400. It's a great gun. Excellent fitment. A pleasure to shoot. Would recommend for sure.
Wilson/Nighthawk sure have adopted ugly model engravings into their models. Nothing like the spice of block letters on the slide. I know that doesn't effect performance but, lol, it makes me laugh.
Nightstalker865
08-16-20, 15:19
Euro, are you wanting a railed or non-railed model?
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Professional. Have a cool pedigree instead of lame BBQ bragging rights about how much you spent.
The Professional is a full house custom 1911 that can stand alone and not play second fiddle to any Nighthawk, Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown ,etc.
The fact it was spec out and won the FBI contract was an added bonus. One doesn't need to be an FBI agent or some kind of ninja operator to own the gun. The features on this gun is common with all serious defensive 1911, whether by semi custom factories or one man custom pistolsmiths. The features on the gun is not outdated and I'm sure any gun built like it will be around for 50 more years.
Novak high visibility with tritium inserts - many companies offer this popular style and type of sights
Checkered front strap - what custom 1911s don't have them?
Mag well - many 1911s including competition pistols have them, been around for almost 50 years and will be around many more, even fat bottom double stack guns have optional mag well
Great trigger action - A must have for high end guns
Accuracy - those tight fitting match barrels that shoot less than 2" at 25 yards, my words, not theirs. I can't remember what they're guarantee to shoot. But a decent shooter can produce 2" groups at 25 yds with these guns.
Reliability - the gun is tight from the factory but somehow they manage to run
Ambi safety - never outdated as long as we have left handers
Black T finish - protect against rust
If you look hard enough, you can find a used one for around $2000-2200. I bought a used one that the original owner put over a thousand rounds through it and it's still tight as a bank vault. You can't go wrong between the Springfield Pro and a Wilson CQB.
Professional has some cool history. There are some things about it I don't like. The starboard side thumb safety digs into my knuckle when I shoot. I would also prefer something other than Novak rear sight.
I would take a hard look at the Vickers model if I were the considering a Springfield 1911. Save some coin
Are you looking at railed/ non rail, .45 ACP/9mm Euro?
sidewaysil80
08-16-20, 19:20
I just got bit by the 1911 bug hard. I want an heirloom quality 1911 in 45 AARP that shoots great and is reliable.
Springfield Armory just strikes me as not at the same level as Nighthawk and other custom makers, so I’m hesitating despite hearing many good things about their FBI Pro model. $3k feels like a lot of coin for a SA. The association with the FBI means nothing to me - I’m not in the FBI so I don’t care what they use.
Just talking about the gun itself. Any good?
The Professional is a helluva gun no doubt about it. The fact it survived the trials and underwent the r&d it did is remarkable and testament to it's quality...it's probably the most tested/scrutinized 1911 to exist. HOWEVER, I would opt for a Nighthawk over the Springfield any day. For the same money you get far more options, better customer service, (subjective) but I prefer the trigger on Nighthawk, and they seem to hold their value better. There is also the mim issue...not that mim is bad in Springfield's by any stretch, but for that kind of money I would expect tool steel throughout and the peace of mind knowing that the manufacturer used the best components money can buy. Will the mim in a pro fail? Probably never, but again, peace of mind and expectations for the price ymmv. The other issues would be more important to me then mim. Plus I like the design of the Nighthawk ambi safety and magazine well. Unsure of what the Pro uses.
FWIW I like that 9mm PROs seem to be popping up semi frequently now. 45 pedigree notwithstanding.
Also given the street price used I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a better 1911 for the money.
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Have a trp op, it’s a great accurate hard use gun. I also have a wc elite and love it. You can’t go wrong with either. I did ditch the guide rod in both and upgraded to a Dawson precision. Where you press the detention and it pops up a stopper to aid it breaking them down. It’s worked flawless as have they.
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MountainRaven
08-16-20, 22:13
Are you looking at railed/ non rail, .45 ACP/9mm Euro?
Original post states 45 Auto. Or, as the kids are calling it these days, 45 AARP.
: )
Got it. Being a skim reader, in addition to being in the grips of geezerhood, that escaped me.
Clever tho.
SA makes both calibers, in addition to railed and non.
Eurodriver
08-17-20, 06:21
: )
Got it. Being a skim reader, in addition to being in the grips of geezerhood, that escaped me.
Clever tho.
SA makes both calibers, in addition to railed and non.
I think 5” Railed, or not railed if Commander sized.
But I’ve heard commander sized 1911s are unreliable and break easily. Is this true or old school thinking?
I love the Nighthawk options in this size.
sidewaysil80
08-17-20, 06:46
I think 5” Railed, or not railed if Commander sized.
But I’ve heard commander sized 1911s are unreliable and break easily. Is this true or old school thinking?
I love the Nighthawk options in this size.
The reputable mfg’s have got the spring rates dialed in and the guns will function. BUT, I prefer to keep it simple and stick with the full size, especially with 45.
I think 5” Railed, or not railed if Commander sized.
But I’ve heard commander sized 1911s are unreliable and break easily. Is this true or old school thinking?
I love the Nighthawk options in this size.
The Commander sized guns run fine. (The Staccato P, or whatever they call it this year is a "Commander sized" gun.)
I have had trouble with UNramped barrels in .45 AARP with the LW frame guns; sharp ogive JHP's would chew through the frames anodizing causing FTF after a bunch of rds.
I used either steel frame/ramp inserts or ramped barrels after they became available, and they worked fine.
The notion that Commander sized guns are unreliable has been successfully dispelled.
There is every reason to believe the Nighthawk Commander size guns would be GTG.
The "Officer sized"/3"+ barrel were/are subject to spotty reliability if they are NOT SET UP correctly. The slide is short enough there is very little margin for error in fitment of parts or "timing".
Check PM Euro, sent a link.
gunnerblue
08-17-20, 09:05
If I were ever to buy another 1911, a Nighthawk Falcon would be on the top of my list. Their new Colt Series 70's look great for an old-school build as well
Since the topic is about the Springfield Pro, here's a picture of the one with a couple thousand rounds through:
https://i.imgur.com/ni1Za4M.jpg
Eurodriver
08-17-20, 15:00
Since the topic is about the Springfield Pro, here's a picture of the one with a couple thousand rounds through:
https://i.imgur.com/ni1Za4M.jpg
I bought a
Since the topic is about the Springfield Pro, here's a picture of the one with a couple thousand rounds through:
https://i.imgur.com/ni1Za4M.jpg
Bae.
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Nightstalker865
08-17-20, 15:38
I bought a
Congrats man. The one you found on the other forum was a great buy. Nicely done.
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Eurodriver
08-17-20, 19:54
Congrats man. The one you found on the other forum was a great buy. Nicely done.
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Whoops! I don’t even remember posting that! Haha. Thank you.
Meant to say I got a Nowlin barrel SA Pro. Don’t have it yet but super excited. Will definitely post pics.
Big thanks to everyone for your help and especially Gaijin who PM’d me about this deal. I thought I’d spend a lot more time doing research before I jumped on one but it seemed like an awesome deal and exactly what I was looking for (5” w/ rail)
Excited to see what all this “slide feels like it’s on ball bearings” talk means. I must be unrefined because I thought my Glocks were smooth! :)
Johnny Rico
08-17-20, 20:34
That's great. Don't forget to share your thoughts on it, and how it compares to the Nighthawks and Wilsons you've seen.
You’re gonna like it Euro.
The ones from Dave Williams era were arguably, the best.
MountainRaven
08-18-20, 00:40
You’re gonna like it Euro.
The ones from Dave Williams era were arguably, the best.
Is Mr. Williams no longer with SACS?
I can find a reference to 2017 of Dave still being with SA's, but a March 2018 reference of a Don Stogsdill is referred to as "Team Leader of the Custom Shop".
To my knowledge, if the Custom Shop is still in business, their output is a trickle of what it once was.
The Glory Years for the Custom Shop were in the late late 90's (FBI gun accepted in '98 from memory) to maybe 2010+, but with the continuing widespread acceptance of Glock/Polymer guns causing the Custom Shop to become a shell of what it once was.
The gun Euro purchased dates from June, 2005, squarely in the middle of the Glory Years.
This from LAV's book on SA's Custom shop project for Delta Force, I guess a "Sister Project" to the "FBI gun":
...The Unit needed to commission some new pistols to replace old ones that had worn out . They also wanted frames with an integral light rail and a tactical magwell . The Unit's arms room wanted to utilize Caspian frames and slides , which had proven themselves over years of use and abuse with a staggering amount of .45 ACP ball ammo.
However , Caspian only manufactures components and doesn't build guns. Vickers suggested that the Unit work with Dave Williams at Springfield Armory Custom Shop, who was more than happy to complete the builds .
These guns were the last variation of the single-stack 1911 to be used by Delta Force.
Johnny Rico
08-18-20, 07:41
The Glory Years for the Custom Shop were in the late late 90's (FBI gun accepted in '98 from memory) to maybe 2010+...
I adore my 2008 vintage Custom Carry. Not as feature rich as the Pro, but made with the same skilled hands and attention to detail.
I can find a reference to 2017 of Dave still being with SA's, but a March 2018 reference of a Don Stogsdill is referred to as "Team Leader of the Custom Shop".
To my knowledge, if the Custom Shop is still in business, their output is a trickle of what it once was.
The Glory Years for the Custom Shop were in the late late 90's (FBI gun accepted in '98 from memory) to maybe 2010+, but with the continuing widespread acceptance of Glock/Polymer guns causing the Custom Shop to become a shell of what it once was.
The gun Euro purchased dates from June, 2005, squarely in the middle of the Glory Years.
This from LAV's book on SA's Custom shop project for Delta Force, I guess a "Sister Project" to the "FBI gun":
...The Unit needed to commission some new pistols to replace old ones that had worn out . They also wanted frames with an integral light rail and a tactical magwell . The Unit's arms room wanted to utilize Caspian frames and slides , which had proven themselves over years of use and abuse with a staggering amount of .45 ACP ball ammo.
However , Caspian only manufactures components and doesn't build guns. Vickers suggested that the Unit work with Dave Williams at Springfield Armory Custom Shop, who was more than happy to complete the builds .
These guns were the last variation of the single-stack 1911 to be used by Delta Force.
Dave Williams was/is a great guy and great 1911 smith. He was also willing to talk to customers though incredibly busy. I spoke with him on the phone one time about work that SACS did for me on a SA 45 that I've posted about in this forum, he was incredibly helpful and pretty much knows everything there is to know about the platform.
To get a pistol from the "Dave era" is truly something special, Euro you couldn't have landed a much sweeter deal than that. And yeah, my bias, glad you got a classic 1911. You're gonna love it.
Nightstalker865
08-18-20, 11:49
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200818/6dce2c0b319024539c570fae6b526950.jpg
Perfection...
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Killer.
Used to see and shoot with Dave from time to time in late 80’s at Area USPSA matches.
Always enjoyed him.
MountainRaven
08-18-20, 13:15
I'm just kind of shocked that LAV would use SAI to build a pistol with his name on it if Dave Williams isn't even running (or working for) SACS, any more.
Gary1911A1
08-18-20, 13:20
What a lost to Springfield that Dave Williams doesn't work for them anymore. He was almost always at the Single Stack Classic and was great to answer questions. I also have a Professional and a 1911 in .40 that the Custom Shop built for me. Hope he's doing well.
Grandprairie
08-18-20, 14:28
Check out Ed Brown 1911s.
https://www.edbrown.com/handguns/
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I'm just kind of shocked that LAV would use SAI to build a pistol with his name on it if Dave Williams isn't even running (or working for) SACS, any more.
Perhaps my quote was misleading, the gun(s) referred to were for Delta Force, a long time ago, when Dave was running the CS.
Nothing recent, nothing for LAV personally.
Whoops! I don’t even remember posting that! Haha. Thank you.
Meant to say I got a Nowlin barrel SA Pro. Don’t have it yet but super excited. Will definitely post pics.
Big thanks to everyone for your help and especially Gaijin who PM’d me about this deal. I thought I’d spend a lot more time doing research before I jumped on one but it seemed like an awesome deal and exactly what I was looking for (5” w/ rail)
Excited to see what all this “slide feels like it’s on ball bearings” talk means. I must be unrefined because I thought my Glocks were smooth! :)
I have a Pro in 45 & 9. IMHO, the SA guns are not known for smooth slides. When I bought my first TRP I thought, holly shit no way this thing will cycle. Never malt'd.
They are built very tight and run run run. Built to make the long haul and cycle every time. You should read about the FBI testing protocols that SA won. It is very impressive. I have a NHC Heine TDP model, and that slide is like "ball bearings". Just preparing you for the arrival of your new blaster.
PB
I have a Pro in 45 & 9. IMHO, the SA guns are not known for smooth slides. When I bought my first TRP I thought, holly shit no way this thing will cycle. Never malt'd.
They are built very tight and run run run. Built to make the long haul and cycle every time. You should read about the FBI testing protocols that SA won. It is very impressive. I have a NHC Heine TDP model, and that slide is like "ball bearings". Just preparing you for the arrival of your new blaster.
PB
I imagine the 9mm offering would be a hoot
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The 9mm 1911's do have very smooth slides and its crazy how smooth they shoot. I shot my full powered 45 banger, and even with a hefty 1911, it illustrated to me how soft 9mm has made me. 9mm Spoils people. I still like my 45's. I only have 1911's and one HK45 in 45acp these days.
PB
Eurodriver
08-18-20, 16:47
I have a Pro in 45 & 9. IMHO, the SA guns are not known for smooth slides. When I bought my first TRP I thought, holly shit no way this thing will cycle. Never malt'd.
They are built very tight and run run run. Built to make the long haul and cycle every time. You should read about the FBI testing protocols that SA won. It is very impressive. I have a NHC Heine TDP model, and that slide is like "ball bearings". Just preparing you for the arrival of your new blaster.
PB
The Heinie TDP was actually the only thing I was considering next to the Pro.
I’ll check out the testing. I know next to nothing about 1911s. I think prior to learning about Staccatos a month ago I’d never even entered this forum and I’ve been here for ten years lol
I'm just kind of shocked that LAV would use SAI to build a pistol with his name on it if Dave Williams isn't even running (or working for) SACS, any more.
I can see LAV seeing the opportunity to make a semi-custom gun that does what he wants at a price he personally would be excited about for what you get... Particularly for that performance space anything else we're talking about isn't nearly as important as getting the spec dialed and parts sourcing worked out so there aren't any production log-jams.
The 9mm 1911's do have very smooth slides and its crazy how smooth they shoot. I shot my full powered 45 banger, and even with a hefty 1911, it illustrated to me how soft 9mm has made me. 9mm Spoils people. I still like my 45's. I only have 1911's and one HK45 in 45acp these days.
PB
Yep. The 9mm 1911s are effectively cheating in comparison to .45.
Eurodriver
08-24-20, 14:55
https://i.ibb.co/R45bSPy/2936440-A-C866-48-F7-AFCC-4488-D145-A591.jpg
I like this.
WillieThom
08-24-20, 15:50
https://i.ibb.co/R45bSPy/2936440-A-C866-48-F7-AFCC-4488-D145-A591.jpg
I like this.
I like that. Too.
Lawnchair 04
08-24-20, 16:33
Me too, let me know when you want to sell it.
As you should Euro. Like it.
Your impressions after range trip please.
Nightstalker865
08-24-20, 18:12
https://i.ibb.co/R45bSPy/2936440-A-C866-48-F7-AFCC-4488-D145-A591.jpg
I like this.
Excellent. Can’t wait to hear the range feedback.
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I only have one 1911 and it's a Springfield collaboration with Hilton Yam. Super smooth and really accurate. I'm looking for a 9MM Commander 1911 and I'm leaning toward a Wilson. I don't shoot the 1911 as well as my Glocks but I love to carry it.
https://live.staticflickr.com/5343/17029901230_81515d7995_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rWSGjJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/rWSGjJ) by Cory Fluck (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101418915@N07/), on Flickr
I only have one 1911 and it's a Springfield collaboration with Hilton Yam. Super smooth and really accurate. I'm looking for a 9MM Commander 1911 and I'm leaning toward a Wilson. I don't shoot the 1911 as well as my Glocks but I love to carry it.
https://live.staticflickr.com/5343/17029901230_81515d7995_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rWSGjJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/rWSGjJ) by Cory Fluck (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101418915@N07/), on Flickr
There is a shop in MI that has an OD green Wilson Combat in 45, pre owned but unfired and it is beautiful.....I can PM if interested
Look into the Wilson EDC 9.. 15 rounds of 9mm and it shoots very well. Hertiage Guild had a Wilson Combat day a few years ago and I was able to try one out.
https://i.ibb.co/R45bSPy/2936440-A-C866-48-F7-AFCC-4488-D145-A591.jpg
I like this.
Send me the original grips
I'm jelly. My only 1911 is a beater.
Eurodriver
08-27-20, 11:33
Shot this for the first time today.
Wow. Rounds grouped extremely well, but I only shot at 10 yards. Trigger is like clicking the button on a mouse (thanks for the analogy GTF425)
Now I want the rear sight cut for an adjustable Bomar BMCS sight. Who can do this?
I have shot Wilsons and Nighthawks. I prefer Wilsons. That being said my wife gave me this for an anniversary one year and it has been upgraded by a friend and 10-8'ed other than the Nighthawk trigger. It has been exceptional. It has been through many classes before and after the work without a glimmer of a hiccup. Because of that, although I have never shot one, I would go with the Springfield.
https://i.imgur.com/n8N3vuSl.jpg
sundance435
08-27-20, 13:18
Now I want the rear sight cut for an adjustable Bomar BMCS sight. Who can do this?
Are those similar to the ones Staccato is using? Love the sights on my Staccato P.
Now I want the rear sight cut for an adjustable Bomar BMCS sight. Who can do this?
Glad you like how it shoots, welcome to the 1911 world.
As for your desire to have the adjustable Bomar style recessed into the slide, it's a little tough. Look at your existing Novak sight, the front part of the sight where the wedge shaped dovetail is in the slide, may or may not be located where the buried Bomar front or rear parts will go. It's tough to explain, a gunsmith would have to mill away the wrong dovetail that's already in there and/or fill in by welding a blank in, etc. It can be done, but costly and require a machinist that can perform such a surgery. Pick the wrong guy and your slide will be butchered.
What is it about the Novak that you don't like, want to change? or what is it about the Bomar style that you think you want? Maybe there are other options that doesn't require a major surgery.
Nightstalker865
08-27-20, 15:37
Maybe look at something like the adjustable battle sight from Wilson?
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Tactical-Adjustable-Battlesight-TAB-Black/productinfo/860/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/44569a898523132c28380054a4ba1ef6.jpg
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That Wilson looks great if you want adjustable.
If there's a chance this pistol will be carried, personally I would suggest skipping an adjustable rear and get John Harrison's 'hard use' Novak-cut rear sight for Springfields. I've had him install a set of the similar Bomar-cut ones, they are awesome and enable racking the slide.
https://shop.harrisoncustom.com/springfield-loaded-and-models-with-novak-cut
Trigger is like clicking the button on a mouse (thanks for the analogy GTF425)
You're going to be spoiled now, between the Pro and your Staccato.
Color me jealous.
You did good Euro
Did someone say Pro?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200828/a98f58c8574be9a8693021d9edc253e7.jpg
donlapalma
08-28-20, 16:30
Pros before hoes
63591
I thought somebody made an adjustable sight that looks like the Bomar but fit's in the traditional frames? I'll look into it.
PB
That’s a good looking blaster Euro.
I doubt I’ll ever grab another 1911 again. Started with a .45, and later had a .40 (that gun shot like a laser!). But if I do it again, it’ll definitely be a 9mm.
Bomars? Makes me want to strap on some Ernie Hill Speed Leather!
Sent from 80ms in the future
Nomar sight base can get you to a bomar very low profile like such.. This was a Novak cut rear.. Transformed with a nomar sight base and cutting down. Much lower profile than a standard bomar cut.
This was one guys suggestion. I didn't understand it but maybe you will ??
Integrity Arms
Nightstalker865
08-28-20, 22:09
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200829/2ba2436e8c8fab95ee990192d9ff9cf7.jpg
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200829/2ba2436e8c8fab95ee990192d9ff9cf7.jpg
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Aesthetic
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Nomar sight base can get you to a bomar very low profile like such.. This was a Novak cut rear.. Transformed with a nomar sight base and cutting down. Much lower profile than a standard bomar cut.
This was one guys suggestion. I didn't understand it but maybe you will ??
Integrity Arms
The existing, fixes RS Novak Dovetail dimensions wont work with the BoMar style RS base dimension PB.
Brandon Bunker (Bunker Arms) developed a sight base that can be milled on a slide that works with the existing Novak dovetail and accepts the sight mechanism (blade/adjustment portion) of a BoMar or clone.
Karl Beining (KGB Arms) was one of the smiths that worked with Brandon on this project and does the dovetail mod (along with others).
Here's a 2019 Staccato P, before/after, with this mod.
https://i.imgur.com/OmWBAhU.jpg
(Bottom STI)
https://i.imgur.com/gKG9mnf.jpg
MadAngler1
08-29-20, 06:08
What 8 round .45 magazines do the SA Pros like? Wilson? CMC railed power mags? Tripp?
yugo308guy
08-29-20, 06:28
I thought somebody made an adjustable sight that looks like the Bomar but fit's in the traditional frames? I'll look into it.
PB
Kensight.
https://stores.kensight.com/new-category/
I’ve always used CMC Power mags in .45.
Nightstalker865
08-29-20, 11:03
Wilson ETM’s have been my goto mags for years now. Never had and issue out of them.
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Eurodriver
08-29-20, 11:20
I have 5 Wilsons with this gun and they all function with all of the types of FMJs and HPs I've been able to find so far.
Eurodriver
08-29-20, 11:21
Maybe look at something like the adjustable battle sight from Wilson?
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Tactical-Adjustable-Battlesight-TAB-Black/productinfo/860/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/44569a898523132c28380054a4ba1ef6.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You have my attention.
I talked to Karl and KGB thanks to Gaijin. Fair price, reasonable turn around, and solid work. But something about cutting into a Professional with a relatively "proprietary" rear sight makes me nervous.
This paired with a FO front might be what I'm looking for.
Eurodriver
08-29-20, 11:22
The existing, fixes RS Novak Dovetail dimensions wont work with the BoMar style RS base dimension PB.
Brandon Bunker (Bunker Arms) developed a sight base that can be milled on a slide that works with the existing Novak dovetail and accepts the sight mechanism (blade/adjustment portion) of a BoMar or clone.
Karl Beining (KGB Arms) was one of the smiths that worked with Brandon on this project and does the dovetail mod (along with others).
Here's a 2019 Staccato P, before/after, with this mod.
Damn those look good.
Nightstalker865
08-29-20, 11:23
You have my attention.
I talked to Karl and KGB thanks to Gaijin. Fair price, reasonable turn around, and solid work. But something about cutting into a Professional with a relatively "proprietary" rear sight makes me nervous.
This paired with a FO front might be what I'm looking for.
That’s personally the route I would go. Either way, I’m glad to hear your enjoying the Pro.
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MadAngler1
08-29-20, 13:18
Thanks for the replies.
Highly recommend not screwing with the sights- especially cutting the slide.
What 8 round .45 magazines do the SA Pros like? Wilson? CMC railed power mags? Tripp?
I run mostly Wilsons but have run many others and none had issues. The Pro in 9mm doesn't like Wilsons which is odd. Wouldnt lock-back sometimes. And they ship with Chips if my memory serves me. SA made no apologies for them not running well with Wilsons. SA CS has been outstanding for me in the past and found this odd.
PB
sundance435
08-31-20, 11:10
I run mostly Wilsons but have run many others and none had issues. The Pro in 9mm doesn't like Wilsons which is odd. Wouldnt lock-back sometimes. And they ship with Chips if my memory serves me. SA made no apologies for them not running well with Wilsons. SA CS has been outstanding for me in the past and found this odd.
PB
I used to be a 47D fan, but Tripp mags are the only ones that have worked 100% in every 1911 I have ever owned. They're all I use now. Haven't shot my Dan Wesson 9mm yet, but I'll be running Tripp mags with that, too.
I used to be a 47D fan, but Tripp mags are the only ones that have worked 100% in every 1911 I have ever owned. They're all I use now. Haven't shot my Dan Wesson 9mm yet, but I'll be running Tripp mags with that, too.
My 9 Valor Dan & Wesson runs with everything fine. I had handled a DW 45 in my LGS and saw one on GB for way cheap and grabbed it. Its been a solid citizen.
AztecViking
08-31-20, 21:22
I only have one 1911 and it's a Springfield collaboration with Hilton Yam. Super smooth and really accurate. I'm looking for a 9MM Commander 1911 and I'm leaning toward a Wilson. I don't shoot the 1911 as well as my Glocks but I love to carry it.
https://live.staticflickr.com/5343/17029901230_81515d7995_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rWSGjJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/rWSGjJ) by Cory Fluck (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101418915@N07/), on Flickr
The 10-8 Operators are so awesome. You’re a lucky man, highly jealous you have one of the originals.
MadAngler1
09-19-20, 07:31
I just picked up my Springfield Custom Professional model (45) and put 300 rounds through it last night. I’m surprised the gun comes with a shok-buff from Wilson installed on the guide rod. Compared to my Nighthawk Talon II bobtail, recoil is about the same and quite controllable. Just as if not more accurate than my Nighthawk. The bushing is unique in the sense that it is not completely smooth on the outside. There are small ridges on it where it fits into the slide, in addition to the standard notch that lines up inside the slide.
I’m going to put a full 1000 rounds through the gun to break it in before commenting much more. I had some cases where the first round would not feed into the chamber when releasing the slide stop. This was remedied by sling shotting the slide back. The problem occured with Wilson ETM mags, the supplied 7 round springfield mags, and Nighthawk’s 8 round mags. I think my ETM springs need to be changed out, so I will work on that today. I did not have the issue with Chip McCormick Power mags. Yes, I did take the gun apart before firing it for the first time and gave it a Slip 2000 EWL treatment. I can just tell the feed ramp and bushing need some “wear and tear” before being given a green light. My Nighthawk needed about 500 rounds before being 100% reliable.
by the way, when I registered my warranty on Springfield’s website, I emailed customer service about magazines. They like metalform and Chip McCormick. I have a sample railed power mag and a Vicker’s ETM mag on its way from Midway for testing. As I’ve learned in the past, there is no one superior magazine for 1911s. You have to pick the magazine that works best in your 1911 with FMJs and JHPs. There are too many variances amongst gun makers and mag makers to count.
MountainRaven
09-19-20, 09:13
Wilson 1911s come with shok-buffs from the factory.
And their magazines need to be kept fully-loaded for 24 hours before their first use for best function (per Wilson) - in case you hadn't done that.
MadAngler1
09-19-20, 09:46
Wilson 1911s come with shok-buffs from the factory.
And their magazines need to be kept fully-loaded for 24 hours before their first use for best function (per Wilson) - in case you hadn't done that.
I bought a Springfield Custom Shop Professional. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. It came with a Wilson shok-buff.
The Wilson ETM mags I have are old. I didn’t see anything that the Springfield 7 round mags need to stay loaded for 24 hrs prior to use. They all worked fine in my Nighthawk.
In today's climate, it must be nice to be able to shoot 300 rounds and have 1000 more to burn.
I bought a Springfield Custom Shop Professional. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. It came with a Wilson shok-buff.
The Wilson ETM mags I have are old. I didn’t see anything that the Springfield 7 round mags need to stay loaded for 24 hrs prior to use. They all worked fine in my Nighthawk.
I'm very surprised, it came with a Wilson shok-buff???? Mine didn't and I thought those were pixy dust. This was a new in box gun? Take that thing out and see how it runs. That gun should not require a break-in IMHO. Mine didn't. Sumpin aint right.
PB
Nightstalker865
09-19-20, 15:16
I'm very surprised, it came with a Wilson shok-buff???? Mine didn't and I thought those were pixy dust. This was a new in box gun? Take that thing out and see how it runs. That gun should not require a break-in IMHO. Mine didn't. Sumpin aint right.
PB
I was wondering the same thing when I read it.
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It got my goat so bad I emailed SA to ask if I should be running a shok-buffer? I can't imagine it's true.
MadAngler1
09-19-20, 16:23
I bought it LNIB on gun broker. Got $600 off MSRP. Prior owner only put a few mags through it and decided he wanted something else. Maybe he put it on.
MadAngler1
09-19-20, 20:24
Here are some pics:
63790
63791
Gun came with blue Wilson Shok Buff. I’ll remove it tonight.
Also, see the ridges or ripples on the outside of the bushing? May be hard to see. Must be a Springfield thing. None of my other 1911 bushings have that.
My grip screws are already loose. I’m going to change the grips for a set of black VZs I kept after I sold my Wilson a few years ago. I’ll add some Challis grip screw o-rings. Works like a charm.
FYI, gun was test fired May 2018. Has Dave Williams signature on the card.
Pull the goofy shok buff out and your gun will run like a dream.
PB
MadAngler1
09-20-20, 14:40
In today's climate, it must be nice to be able to shoot 300 rounds and have 1000 more to burn.
LOL. Sorry. That makes me sad. I bought 2000 rounds for the year prior to the pandemic. :-( I like your line about Glocks by the way.
Anyhow, I went back to the local indoor range and put another 200 rounds through my Springfield Pro. Only had a few failures to feed. One from a CMC Powermag loaded with Winchester PDX-1s (it was the first round of the 8 round mag.....and I slingshot the slide). I had another failure to feed from one of Springfield's 7 round mags (again, the first round of a loaded mag, slide was sling shot). Otherwise that was it. The Wilson ETMs had their followers and springs changed, and they all ran flawless (I had some spring/follower kits on hand). Without the shok-buff, the gun cycles slightly different but no better or worse than my nighthawk.
I'm waiting on a flat wire recoil spring kit next. I have one on my Nighthawk Talon II and love it. I think the cycling and recoil impulse is smoother with the flat wire recoil springs. I also have to dremel out a notch for my VZ grips with the ambi safety (I'm going to see if VZ can do it for me rather than I try it). Last, I think a 10-8 slide stop would be great. Otherwise, I need a free weekend to shoot an IDPA match with it ;-)
Eurodriver
09-20-20, 16:43
https://i.ibb.co/DYGQhdk/74-B28972-770-B-48-AE-8105-4-B0256-CFA817.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1QSGY70/BD9-AB8-DD-85-A6-4429-9984-38059-F21971-E.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WgPWhNt/BF93-A3-FF-C519-4-AD6-8165-BDCEEAE01824.jpg
Shot about 500 rounds yesterday through my Pro.
Love. This. Gun.
Started off going for some B8s at 25y. One was 7 rounds mag change and 7 rounds in 1 minute. The other was 10 rounds in one minute.
Based on my chats with Gaijin it looks like I began anticipating recoil with the low ones so I put the gun down. Dry fired and then loaded up five and shot the group high to the right (which if transposed over the 10 ring would’ve been perfect)
Then I transitioned to shooting out of a holster and mag changes. As noonesshowmonkey said “woof. That was ugly”.
Definitely takes a while getting used to single stack mags and moving muscle memory from where the Glock slide release is to the 1911. Did some other stuff like shooting on the move and target transitions. Haven’t had that fun with a handgun in a long time!
And it looks so beautiful on your hip. If someone told me a year ago I’d be dropping almost $2500 for a steel framed gun that only holds 8 rounds I would’ve laughed my socks off.
Nightstalker865
09-20-20, 18:28
Awesome. Such a cool gun [emoji41]
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Yeah, never say never Euro. It’s difficult for some of us opinionated types.
: )
You did well.
10/10 I would like on in 9mm. And at dealer of $2600 I think that's pretty reasonable honestly.
Eurodriver
09-21-20, 18:31
10/10 I would like on in 9mm. And at dealer of $2600 I think that's pretty reasonable honestly.
9mm 1911?
Why
In today's climate, it must be nice to be able to shoot 300 rounds and have 1000 more to burn.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.co%2Fimages%2Fa005090415d03c602f73cf4e8dcc6be4%2Fraw&f=1&nofb=1
Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
MountainRaven
09-21-20, 19:21
9mm 1911?
Why
Because his wrists and elbows are shot from years of shooting 230-gr hard ball, like Ken Hackathorn and Hilton Yam. :ph34r:
Not a judgement against you Euro, but those that ask why 9mm 1911 either have not shot one, still young and strong or stubborn (again, nothing against you personally). Let me break that down.
Have not shot one - if one never shot a 9mm through a 1911, what that person is missing is practically less than half of the recoil of a .45, flat recoil (it goes front to back and does not have the muzzle flip). One or two additional rounds, depending on what 9mm and .45 magazine they are using. Not much but just that much longer before you have to reload.
Still young - This is a personal story. I shot .45 in 1911s since I was 21 y.o. until I was in my late 40s. That's over 20 years of .45, averaging 5000 rounds a year, some more some less. That's over 100,000 rounds. My finger joints, wrist and elbow on my small frame body are feeling the cumulative effects. That's not counting some .38, .357, 9mm and a few boxes of punishing .44 mags. I didn't feel it in my 30s or late 30s. Shooting reloads of mostly full power 850 fps/230 gr and some reduced 800 fps rounds and never thought anything of it. Shooting in USPSA, IDPA, practice, training classes, etc. But when I got my mid 40s, I shot less 1911 and went to 9mm Glocks and Berettas more and more. Now I shoot 200 - 300 rounds of .45 a year. Your body will let you know when you reach 50 and touching off a magazine of .45 balls. It's not going to fly out of your hand but you'll know something of major power factor is happening.
Stubborn - Some people think it's unmanly to shoot a 9mm 1911, it's not what "Uncle Jeff" , as in Jeff Cooper, wants you to shoot. Yes they are out there plenty.
Once I tried somebody's 9mm 1911 for the first time, I thought I could wait for the gun to cycle, I could feel the slide chugging back and forth. It's not really slow but it just felt that way. The more I shot 9mm 1911 the more I like it.
There is a reason why Rob Leatham went to 9mm. Yes his game is to shoot papers for scores and not shoot meat. The guy shot more in a year than me in my lifetime. And he's a big guy, so it's not that he can't handle the recoil.
Long answer huh?
Because his wrists and elbows are shot from years of shooting 230-gr hard ball, like Ken Hackathorn and Hilton Yam. :ph34r:
Oh yeah, them too. Hackathorn can't even bend his trigger finger all the way for years due to the pounding he took. He still occasionally shoot .45s but he shoots 9s a lot more.
I'm just a mere mortal compared to those two pistoleros.
Eurodriver
09-21-20, 19:35
Wow interesting.
I wasn’t asking why 9mm as much as why a 9mm 1911.
For example a 2011 holds twice as many rounds and shoots just as well.
But I really had no idea 45 beats you up that much. That’s crazy.
Wow interesting.
I wasn’t asking why 9mm as much as why a 9mm 1911.
For example a 2011 holds twice as many rounds and shoots just as well.
But I really had no idea 45 beats you up that much. That’s crazy.
Sir,
A .45 doesn't beat you up that much in a year, or 5 years, but over 20 years in my experience, and those other gentlemen (Leatham and Hackathorn) have shot .45 for twice as long and put away millions of rounds. I think Mr. Yam is younger than those other two but I'm sure he's fired a few rounds.
As for 9mm 1911 (as in single stack) vs. the 2011 or Staccato style - Yes, the 2011 carry a bunch more rounds, but their magazines cost 3 to 4 times more than a Wilson 47D or ETM, more finicky (got to keep the squeakly clean or they'll choke). Also the double stack 2011 have much fatter grip than the single stack 1911s. For us mortals with girly hands, it's not comfortable and not as concealable as the slimmer 1911.
What I would love handle and try is the Dan Wesson DWX but due to the chicom plague and the race riots, we may never get to see them for another year or two.
When I want to shoot 9mm metal guns that carry lots of bb, I go to my Beretta 92X Centurion or the LTT Elite. Soft recoils, affordable, even the used LTT Elite that I bought is 1/4 the cost of a new Staccato.
MountainRaven
09-21-20, 21:13
Staccato 17-round magazines from their website are $70 a pop.
Wilson 47 magazines are $33 a pop on Wilson's website. ETMs are $40-50 and ETM-Vs are $55. (These are prices for 45 Auto magazines, not 9mm.)
Certainly more expensive, but not exactly 3-4x the price.
MadAngler1
09-21-20, 21:27
Reading these posts makes me wish I would have never sold my S&W Pro Series 9 mm 1911. Had an external extractor, 100% reliable. I sold it because I felt I should spend the trigger time with my glocks. I also sold it because I wound up never using it for IDPA or steel matches.
Staccato 17-round magazines from their website are $70 a pop.
Wilson 47 magazines are $33 a pop on Wilson's website. ETMs are $40-50 and ETM-Vs are $55. (These are prices for 45 Auto magazines, not 9mm.)
Certainly more expensive, but not exactly 3-4x the price.
Staccato mags are cheaper from Dawson Precision....
9mm 1911?
Why
Simmer down pork chop
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Staccato 17-round magazines from their website are $70 a pop.
Wilson 47 magazines are $33 a pop on Wilson's website. ETMs are $40-50 and ETM-Vs are $55. (These are prices for 45 Auto magazines, not 9mm.)
Certainly more expensive, but not exactly 3-4x the price.
Gotcha. I heard somewhere that the Staccato mags are in the $120 range. And I usually pay $30 or less for the 47D :) I'm frugal.
Gotcha. I heard somewhere that the Staccato mags are in the $120 range. And I usually pay $30 or less for the 47D :) I'm frugal.
MBX mags are that much. But also the best evidently.
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MountainRaven
09-22-20, 09:18
Staccato mags are cheaper from Dawson Precision....
I was comparing prices direct from the manufacturers.
Gotcha. I heard somewhere that the Staccato mags are in the $120 range. And I usually pay $30 or less for the 47D :) I'm frugal.
Staccato magazines certainly were $100+ five years ago or so, but when they decided to start going after the LE market the magazine prices dropped significantly.
Gotcha. I heard somewhere that the Staccato mags are in the $120 range. And I usually pay $30 or less for the 47D :) I'm frugal.
Just bought a half dozen 20 rd for 60 bucks a pop, like 2 days ago.
Staccato magazines certainly were $100+ five years ago or so, but when they decided to start going after the LE market the magazine prices dropped significantly.
Funny how that goes.
WillieThom
09-23-20, 00:59
I’m conflicted. This post and Euro’s other post has put me in a predicament.
I have wanted a Railed Pro for a long time. Years...
Then I wanted a Staccato P or Staccato C2. This is a newer development.
Now I want a Railed Pro in 9mm.
This is dumb. It adds nothing to either thread. But there it is.
GhostRecon21
09-23-20, 07:04
I’m conflicted. This post and Euro’s other post has put me in a predicament.
I have wanted a Railed Pro for a long time. Years...
Then I wanted a Staccato P or Staccato C2. This is a newer development.
Now I want a Railed Pro in 9mm.
This is dumb. It adds nothing to either thread. But there it is.
You can’t go wrong with a Pro. Pick which caliber you prefer and rock on.
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Eurodriver
09-23-20, 07:37
I’m conflicted. This post and Euro’s other post has put me in a predicament.
I have wanted a Railed Pro for a long time. Years...
Then I wanted a Staccato P or Staccato C2. This is a newer development.
Now I want a Railed Pro in 9mm.
This is dumb. It adds nothing to either thread. But there it is.
I have had the same Gen3 G19 in my nightstand for over a decade. During that time, I’ve own tons of more accurate and higher quality handguns. Nothing ever replaced it.
The Professional sits in there now.
I’m conflicted. This post and Euro’s other post has put me in a predicament.
I have wanted a Railed Pro for a long time. Years...
Then I wanted a Staccato P or Staccato C2. This is a newer development.
Now I want a Railed Pro in 9mm.
This is dumb. It adds nothing to either thread. But there it is.
Buck the system. 9mm
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Sir,
A .45 doesn't beat you up that much in a year, or 5 years, but over 20 years in my experience, and those other gentlemen (Leatham and Hackathorn) have shot .45 for twice as long and put away millions of rounds. I think Mr. Yam is younger than those other two but I'm sure he's fired a few rounds.
As for 9mm 1911 (as in single stack) vs. the 2011 or Staccato style - Yes, the 2011 carry a bunch more rounds, but their magazines cost 3 to 4 times more than a Wilson 47D or ETM, more finicky (got to keep the squeakly clean or they'll choke). Also the double stack 2011 have much fatter grip than the single stack 1911s. For us mortals with girly hands, it's not comfortable and not as concealable as the slimmer 1911.
What I would love handle and try is the Dan Wesson DWX but due to the chicom plague and the race riots, we may never get to see them for another year or two.
When I want to shoot 9mm metal guns that carry lots of bb, I go to my Beretta 92X Centurion or the LTT Elite. Soft recoils, affordable, even the used LTT Elite that I bought is 1/4 the cost of a new Staccato.
^This. Plus Bill Wilson summary on why 9mm 1911's are here to stay, and Bill/Ken Hack video:
https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/12/bill-wilson-of-wilson-combat-9mm-vs-45-acp-1911s/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odbb8IrROz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scz1uWl21bM
MadAngler1
09-23-20, 13:37
I’m conflicted. This post and Euro’s other post has put me in a predicament.
I have wanted a Railed Pro for a long time. Years...
Then I wanted a Staccato P or Staccato C2. This is a newer development.
Now I want a Railed Pro in 9mm.
This is dumb. It adds nothing to either thread. But there it is.
It’s not dumb. If I were you, I would fine a single stack 9 mm 1911 with an external extractor. I think Wilson’s offerings up one Springfield’s 9 mm 1911s for that reason. Better reliability. That’s not saying you’ll won’t be short changed with a Pro in 9 mm though. I’m sure it would make a great defensive pistol.
How important is accuracy to you? That's where the "custom" 1911s really shine, and really their only advantage.
1911s are very similar to M14s in that they're not inherently accurate, but can be made to be accurate, but doing so is extremely labor intensive and expensive. And is also often at the expense of reliability, especially when they're new.
What I would look for in a 1911 is just your standard milspec quality. They'll be a little sloppy and not as accurate as modern guns, but they'll be reliable after a short break in and last a long time. Main thing for me would be no MIM parts. Don't quote me on this, but I believe that Springfield uses MIM parts now, but I think Colt is still MIM free.
If things haven't changed recently, the Colt 1911s are very solid, and pretty affordable.
How important is accuracy to you? That's where the "custom" 1911s really shine, and really their only advantage.
there are some other advantages depending on who builds em. reliability jumps to the forefront of my mind.
MountainRaven
09-23-20, 16:20
Everyone who makes guns cheaper than Dan Wesson use MIM. Even some of the less expensive Dan Wesson guns use MIM.
And, yes, durability (of small parts) and reliability will be improved by selecting a custom or custom-production 1911 over a less expensive, more mass produced 1911.
You can de-MIM a 1911 but, better to buy right the first time.
there are some other advantages depending on who builds em. reliability jumps to the forefront of my mind.
I think increased reliability is a myth created by the custom 1911 manufacturers. That's my personal opinion mind you, but I've yet to see one iota of actual evidence that they are in fact more reliable by any metric whatsoever.
It's also pretty well established that 1911s tend to be finicky until they loosen up some.
I think the kernel of truth in this matter is that a well made custom 1911 is going to be more reliable than a poorly done one. Kimber, for example, jumps to mind. Yes, they're very tight, but they wear unevenly, making them worse than a Colt in my estimation. But no, I do not believe that even a Nighthawk is inherently more reliable than a standard 1911 with the typical tolerances.
Lol my main go-to 1911 is a Kimber. It’s been effectively rebuilt a couple times.
I have a Delta Elite but it is very much a toy.
I debate getting a gucci 1911 or making my own. Interesting thread for sure. I remember being told by sooooomebody “lol it only holds 8 rounds though. And .45 is sooo slow”
Still I am getting older so I am getting a 9mm
I just like 1911 because you can effectively have one anywhere and one day, one of these days, Alice; I am living in a van down by the river.
WillieThom
09-23-20, 18:26
You can’t go wrong with a Pro. Pick which caliber you prefer and rock on.
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Yeah. I mean, I know a Staccato will equal more rounds, but the Pro has just always been “that gun” for me.
I have had the same Gen3 G19 in my nightstand for over a decade. During that time, I’ve own tons of more accurate and higher quality handguns. Nothing ever replaced it.
The Professional sits in there now.
I’m already sold. However, knowing your post history and your past philosophies on fighting guns... duly noted.
Buck the system. 9mm
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I’m leaning that way.
I like the fact that it’ll be more controllable/less recoil, I imagine just as accuarate as big brother, and will hold 10 rounds without having the mag extension that a .45 mag would have (thinking Chip McCormick mags).
Everyone who makes guns cheaper than Dan Wesson use MIM. Even some of the less expensive Dan Wesson guns use MIM.
And, yes, durability (of small parts) and reliability will be improved by selecting a custom or custom-production 1911 over a less expensive, more mass produced 1911.
To get this thread back on topic.
SA Pro gots mim
I just got a SA Pro Operator in 9mm. I only have about 500 rounds through it as of now. I love how it shoots and it's been reliable with ball and Gold Dot except for one of the six Chip McCormick magazines doesn't feed reliably. I got a WC Vicker's Duty mag to try, and it's replaced the faulty one. I'm still not going to carry it though until I get a thousand trouble free rounds through it. The pistol seems solid, but you've got to have dependable mags or it doesn't matter.
I've got a lot of time with .45 1911s, but I had never even shot a 9mm one until I got the pro. It sure is a different feeling. There is very little recoil as others have said, but the slide velocity seems to be much less as well. Have others experienced this?
I also don't have any info for preventive maintenance for 9mm 1911s such as a schedule to change springs, or even spring weight for it. Does anyone have this info?
^^Yes.
It's disconcerting to be able to count the slide serrations with your firing hand thumb as gun recoils initially. You get used t it however.
: )
I've got a lot of time with .45 1911s, but I had never even shot a 9mm one until I got the pro. It sure is a different feeling. There is very little recoil as others have said, but the slide velocity seems to be much less as well. Have others experienced this?
I also don't have any info for preventive maintenance for 9mm 1911s such as a schedule to change springs, or even spring weight for it. Does anyone have this info?
Yes on the slide velocity. Many top builders of 9mm 1911's do something to lighten the slide to address that issue and improve reliable cycling. This was done on my C&S 9mm and it's as reliable as my .45.
On PM, I've used these 2 as guides:
* Bill Wilson 1911 PM: https://youtu.be/fW1pJvi5yIw
* http://sightm1911.com/Care/1911_Maintain.htm
I just got a SA Pro Operator in 9mm. I only have about 500 rounds through it as of now. I love how it shoots and it's been reliable with ball and Gold Dot except for one of the six Chip McCormick magazines doesn't feed reliably. I got a WC Vicker's Duty mag to try, and it's replaced the faulty one. I'm still not going to carry it though until I get a thousand trouble free rounds through it. The pistol seems solid, but you've got to have dependable mags or it doesn't matter.
I've got a lot of time with .45 1911s, but I had never even shot a 9mm one until I got the pro. It sure is a different feeling. There is very little recoil as others have said, but the slide velocity seems to be much less as well. Have others experienced this?
I also don't have any info for preventive maintenance for 9mm 1911s such as a schedule to change springs, or even spring weight for it. Does anyone have this info?
Oof I need this in my life.
^^Yes.
It's disconcerting to be able to count the slide serrations with your firing hand thumb as gun recoils initially. You get used t it however.
: )
They remind me of this blow back green gas Glock I had as a kid recoil wise. Almost comical.
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I also don't have any info for preventive maintenance for 9mm 1911s such as a schedule to change springs, or even spring weight for it. Does anyone have this info?
Recoil spring according to Bill Wilson:
Most 1911 9mm caliber pistols will function properly with a recoil spring in the 11# – 13# range if a tight/firm grip and proper ammunition is used. Conventional music wire recoil springs should be replaced every 3,000 rounds, chrome silicone round wire springs every 20,000, rounds and chrome silicone flat wire springs every 40,000 rounds. Ideally you want to run the heaviest recoil spring that will function properly with the lightest ammunition you plan to shoot. To check for spring weight/ammunition compatibility, go to the range and load a single round in the chamber using a magazine proven to reliably lock the slide open on the last shot fired. Fire the shot weak hand only, and if you can do this with reliable slide lock operation 10 consecutive times your recoil spring is not too heavy for your ammunition. Ideally you want the heaviest recoil spring that will pass this simple test because, the heavier the spring, the more positive the feeding of cartridges from the magazine to chamber.
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/faqs/
Recoil spring according to Bill Wilson:
Most 1911 9mm caliber pistols will function properly with a recoil spring in the 11# – 13# range if a tight/firm grip and proper ammunition is used. Conventional music wire recoil springs should be replaced every 3,000 rounds, chrome silicone round wire springs every 20,000, rounds and chrome silicone flat wire springs every 40,000 rounds. Ideally you want to run the heaviest recoil spring that will function properly with the lightest ammunition you plan to shoot. To check for spring weight/ammunition compatibility, go to the range and load a single round in the chamber using a magazine proven to reliably lock the slide open on the last shot fired. Fire the shot weak hand only, and if you can do this with reliable slide lock operation 10 consecutive times your recoil spring is not too heavy for your ammunition. Ideally you want the heaviest recoil spring that will pass this simple test because, the heavier the spring, the more positive the feeding of cartridges from the magazine to chamber.
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/faqs/
Thank you! This is the info I need.
I install/run FBFPS (Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop) with a healthy chamfer in my 9’s and run 19# MS with 9# or 10# RS.
A 2#+- trigger is easy and it changes the guns cycling a bit.
While not necessary for a reliable, light trigger I like how the gun “feels” and have 40K rds+ on a couple guns.
The FBFPS is easier on a lightly sprung 1911.
I install/run FBFPS (Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop) with a healthy chamfer in my 9’s and run 19# MS with 9# or 10# RS.
A 2#+- trigger is easy and it changes the guns cycling a bit.
While not necessary for a reliable, light trigger I like how the gun “feels” and have 40K rds+ on a couple guns.
The FBFPS is easier on a lightly sprung 1911.
I’ve used the flat FPS to slow the slide down on 38 supers and a 9x23. Are you just using it to get the chamfer higher than a typical rounded FPS?
Pretty much. To lessen the severe radius of most, standard Stops and allow 100% function with wimpy range loads with lighter springs.
The limiting factor being enough “recoil” spring energy to reliably strip rounds from mags I use (10 rd Metalform).
Eurodriver
09-26-20, 05:20
Lol my main go-to 1911 is a Kimber. It’s been effectively rebuilt a couple times.
I have a Delta Elite but it is very much a toy.
I debate getting a gucci 1911 or making my own. Interesting thread for sure. I remember being told by sooooomebody “lol it only holds 8 rounds though. And .45 is sooo slow”
Still I am getting older so I am getting a 9mm
I just like 1911 because you can effectively have one anywhere and one day, one of these days, Alice; I am living in a van down by the river.
Whoooooo said that :)
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