Law Enforcement and shotguns

[Slater]

I was watching some old 1970's cop show re-runs and every police cruiser seemed to have a shotgun. Have patrol carbines totally replaced the shotgun in LE use or is there still a role for this weapon other than breaching?

[TomMcC]

I was watching some old 1970's cop show re-runs and every police cruiser seemed to have a shotgun. Have patrol carbines totally replaced the shotgun in LE use or is there still a role for this weapon other than breaching?

Here in Orange Co. Calif I still see many motorcycle cops with shotguns. Some have carbines. Don't know about the cruisers, I, generally don't ever approach them.

[BoringGuy45]

At my old PD, we had them in our cruisers alongside patrol rifles. The patrol rifles came out on numerous occasions, but I don't think we ever touched the shotguns.

[El Vaquero]

A few years ago the shotguns appeared to dip popularity wise. The patrol rifle was the new, cool kid. But lately, at least at my agency they’ve come back around. We have both in our cars. Vast majority of the officers deploy with the patrol rifle but some grab the shotgun.

[ZGXtreme]

Each officer in our small/medium sized agency is initially issued a pistol, SBR carbine, and a shotgun. Most have turned their shotguns in rather than maintain qualification and cleaning them.

Hoping, once production of bean bag rounds catch up, that we can convert most of them to less lethal use. I’d gladly take it back then!

[Tony617]

My BIL was a police officer in Sacramento and they all had shotgun most the years he was in the force. He only an AR within the last 5 or 6 years. They still had the shotguns but they only used non-lethal rounds which I believe was bean bags. He had to buy his own AR and magazines but he is LE so they can use 30 round magazines. He is now retired.

[ST911]

I was watching some old 1970's cop show re-runs and every police cruiser seemed to have a shotgun. Have patrol carbines totally replaced the shotgun in LE use or is there still a role for this weapon other than breaching?

Largely replaced by the carbines, where still found they're mostly less lethal. This can be very regional/local however.

Some armories have had the same shotgun ammo on the shelves for more than 10+ years.

[Averageman]

Until fairly recently many people called these "Riot Guns", think about that for a minute. To me the implication is that this gun is used to quell riots.
Although to my knowledge "Duck Bills" were never used by Law Enforcement, they were used in Vietnam and the purpose was to spread the shot horizontally 3 x for every inch vertically.
I think shotguns are pretty much relegated to the history books, I think semi auto shotguns, with the "Duck Bill" could be very useful when taking on a riot.

If we ever get the fortitude to actually fire on them...

[diving dave]

My old agency still uses 870's as primaries in the cruisers, loaded with low recoil slugs. Some Officers do have AR's but its not the norm. This is in Northern Cali

[Circle_10]

At my place of employment we ditched the 590 shotguns completely in favor of Colt 6920s last year. This is corporate security, not LE however. I don’t have a lot to do with that side of things as I do something different in the department but it was a good move my opinion. It was prompted by concerns over the department’s ability to effectively respond to an Active Shooter incident. What isn’t a great move in my opinion is choosing to run the Colts with just the Magpul MBUS sights that came with them as the only sighting system, and not having any lights on the guns. In conversation I kind of mentioned there’s some things they could do with the Colts to set them up a bit better. But I’m just some nerd, what do I know? But hey, that’s none of my business, it won’t be me going into a cubicle-filled office building where the active shooter has turned off all the lights.

[markm]

The carbine is obviously the WAY smarter option. In the right scenario the bird gun can be devastating. But Carbine is much more versatile.

[ColtSeavers]

At my place of employment we ditched the 590 shotguns completely in favor of Colt 6920s last year. This is corporate security, not LE however. I don’t have a lot to do with that side of things as I do something different in the department but it was a good move my opinion. It was prompted by concerns over the department’s ability to effectively respond to an Active Shooter incident. What isn’t a great move in my opinion is choosing to run the Colts with just the Magpul MBUS sights that came with them as the only sighting system, and not having any lights on the guns. In conversation I kind of mentioned there’s some things they could do with the Colts to set them up a bit better. But I’m just some nerd, what do I know? But hey, that’s none of my business, it won’t be me going into a cubicle-filled office building where the active shooter has turned off all the lights.

At face value, that seems highly dubious, but how much of corporate security truly is Shadowrun or Anime level of action?

[Circle_10]

At face value, that seems highly dubious, but how much of corporate security truly is Shadowrun or Anime level of action?

It’s a defense contractor. I’m some dope that sits in a control room.
If I were fabricating this believe me I’d make the job and myself sound a lot cooler.

[ColtSeavers]

It’s a defense contractor. I’m some dope that sits in a control room.
If I were fabricating this believe me I’d make the job and myself sound a lot cooler.

I meant your employer's decisions to not have an optic, light and sling on the ARs, not your honesty.

[Circle_10]

I meant your employer's decisions to not have an optic, light and sling on the ARs, not your honesty.

Oh jeez, sorry man. I gotcha now, I misunderstood.

Yeah it’s a pretty half assed way to go about it. I mean damn, if you are too cheap for optics at least get some detachable carry handles and some lights. The “duty load” is frangible 5.56 as well.
I do find it odd that rather than go the mall ninja route - getting crap- or mid-tier rifles and kitting them out with a bunch of junk, that they actually started off with a solid rifle.....but left it in literally the most out-of-the-box, stripped-down configuration possible.

But thats nothing compared to how bad the SOP for Active Shooter Response is.

[seb5]

At my agency when I was the lead firearms instuctor I started the move. When I took over a few years ago. I completed it.

As a patrol deputy my experience was that if both were available I always grabbed the carbine. Back when that was all we had my rifle sighted 870 was always loaded with slugs, with buck in the stock sleeve and a few #8's in the console for the occasional varmint call. The shotgun was more for when there was somebody with me and we ended up needing long guns.

As an administrator now the cost versus reward is with the carbine. We are more than ever totally responsible for every projectile. In 8 hours I can train someone to be at least credible, if not proficient with a carbine depending on experience levels. The curve is mich higher with any shotgun, particularly a pump. Add in the accuracy potential, number of rounds, range, and it was not a hard decision. With smaller statured and female deputies........

Now we have a few that still carry both but all certified deputies are issued a Glock 45, Glock 43, and a carbine. I'm still waiting on my initial order of 30 from Sionics, which should allow us us to sale the various Bushy's, RRA's, and large pin Colts we have around and pay for the second order, that I'm told could be many months out.

The shotgun is now a special purpose weapon whereas in the past if was a do everything, and only weapon other than the sidearm. Most of ours are now used as less lethal delivery systems by the colored stocks and different levels of training. Again, with a green stocked shotgun I'm not sure that I would want buck or slugs even in the unit. That would be a nightmmare in the making.

[C-grunt]

When I came on my department about 13 years ago the shotgun was starting to lose popularity and the carbine was skyrocketing in popularity. I attribute that mostly because a large percentage of new officers in the mid 2000s to the mid 2010s were veterans and knew the AR platform well. Now the newest recruits are less likely to be combat vets and the shotgun seems to be regaining some popularity.

That's aside from our less lethal bean bag shotguns. Every patrol car has one assigned to it.

[Screwball]

CBP, at least the Boston Field Office, pulled all of our shotguns to go M4 across the board. Most of our officers hated the decision, since we are a land border. Literally, majority of the times we would utilize a long gun would be within 30 yards.

Personally, I rather a shotgun. Ours were 14”, so my TAC-14 and brace mimics them well.

[Slater]

Back in the 1970's, Ithaca Gun had a promotion whereby if a police officer bought one of their shotguns, they would match the serial number to the officer's badge number.

[ColtSeavers]

Oh jeez, sorry man. I gotcha now, I misunderstood.

Hey, no worries, I just did the same thing to drsal last night, so I had it comin'.

[LMT Shooter]

I work for a small rural department. We authorize any patrol officer who wishes to qualify with a shotgun to do so. 2 years ago, the last of the few who still had them stopped qualifying with them. We are in the process of converting our remaining 870's into less-lethal platforms.