View Full Version : Scope mounts general questions?
What are some things to look for when trying to purchase a mount for an lpvo? Seems like a dumb question but I see some mounts mention moa and I don't know why.
Are vertically screwed rings better or are the opposite better? One solid mount or two ring mounts?
This is gong on an ar-15. I like the aero precision lightweight mounts but I'm cautious of durability.
vicious_cb
08-18-20, 00:12
What are some things to look for when trying to purchase a mount for an lpvo? Seems like a dumb question but I see some mounts mention moa and I don't know why.
Are vertically screwed rings better or are the opposite better? One solid mount or two ring mounts?
This is gong on an ar-15. I like the aero precision lightweight mounts but I'm cautious of durability.
MOA mounts are meaningless for LPVOs. Pick one of these 3 and stop worrying about it.
Geissele
Badger Condition One
Scalarworks
The Seekins precision ones are nice also.
everready73
08-18-20, 15:10
MOA mounts are meaningless for LPVOs. Pick one of these 3 and stop worrying about it.
Geissele
Badger Condition One
Scalarworks
Or
American Defense
Larue LT204
Midwest
The Aero mount is light but not a "duty/HD" mount IMO. It will fail if abused.
Get a one piece mount. QD is nice if moving around to different guns, or to remove quicley if optic or mount fails.
Consider what your secondary sighting system is (if you’re going to have one). If you’re sticking with BUIS at 12 o’clock, then a QD scope mount would be a plus so you can remove the scope to flip up your irons. If you’re going with a non QD scope mount 45 off set BUIS would be necessary.
titsonritz
08-18-20, 16:04
MOA mounts are meaningless for LPVOs. Pick one of these 3 and stop worrying about it.
Geissele
Badger Condition One
Scalarworks
Add Spuhr to that list and I'd see no reason to look further.
titsonritz
08-18-20, 16:21
No love for Bobro?
I like my Bobro mount for the Aimpoint Micro but like my Scalarworks Micro mount better. I think the Bobro mount's locking system is on the fragile side for heavier optics such as a LPVO.
gunnerblue
08-18-20, 17:06
For non-qd, unimounts from Nightforce, Badger and Geissele are tops. I've never used Scalarworks, so can't comment.
I've used Bobro, LaRue and MI for QD and prefer Bobro's greater surface clamping.
AP is indeed lightweight and, IMO, not appropriate for heavier LPVO's.
Using two individual ring mounts will most likely not give enough eye relief unless you were to bridge the optic on both the receiver and the rail which is generally not recommended.
Good recommendations but anyone have any real info on what moa in a mount means or other things to look for or learn to know what seperates a good mount from an ok mount.
I realize now that and good brand mount will suffice for an lpvo but I'd still like to garner more info on mounts.
I like scalarworks, I had one for the comp m4s. But could you imagine trying to turn those knobs to remove the optic if your hands where bloody or the knobs where mudy or something. Maybe I had my knobs to tighg, but I just don't consider it to be a true quick release mount.
Mounts that are identified as 20 or 30 MOA have the specified amount of elevation built into the mount. It can be very useful for long range shooting using a cartridge that doesn't shoot particularly flat, and an optic that doesn't have enough internal elevation adjustment (when dialing for elevation). It's not an important feature with an LPVO.
The difference between an OK mount and a good one, will likely be in their durability. Return to zero should be better in a good QD mount, but naturally not as precise as a really good or great mount.
I like Scalarworks Micro and MRO mounts, but have no desire to drop that much coin for a magnified optic mopunt. I also don't consider them to be truly QD.
I have used QD mounts, and now avoid them. I prefer regular screws/nuts because they are generally more secure in my opinion.
I have also used vertically split rings, and now avoid them. I prefer horizontally split rings because they are generally more secure in my opinion.
Joe Mamma
Awesome this is the info I wanted. I looked this stuff up naturally but info was actually pretty basic in details.
Like Joe Mamma above, I've tried several QD mounts and now I avoid them too. I just don't really see the point and I don't think they're worth the extra weight. If you're concerned about being able to use a backup sighting system in the event of optic failure then there are quite a few good options available now for offset BUIS or an offset RDS.
Another decent mount I'll add to the list is the Warne XSKEL. I don't think it's in the same league as Badger or Geiselle, but IMO it's a solid mount for the money. I currently have two and have had no issues with them.
Like Joe Mamma above, I've tried several QD mounts and now I avoid them too. I just don't really see the point and I don't think they're worth the extra weight. If you're concerned about being able to use a backup sighting system in the event of optic failure then there are quite a few good options available now for offset BUIS or an offset RDS.
Another decent mount I'll add to the list is the Warne XSKEL. I don't think it's in the same league as Badger or Geiselle, but IMO it's a solid mount for the money. I currently have two and have had no issues with them.
I have two 30mm Warne XSKEL mounts as well. They have been excellent for me, especially considering the price.
I also have two Aero mounts (1-30mm, 1-1"). They have been trouble free but are moved to a dedicated rimfire upper.
Andy
vicious_cb
08-21-20, 01:29
No love for Bobro?
I generally do not recommend spring loaded lever mounts. They are more prone to zero shift from lateral impacts. Not singling out bobro in particular but all mounts with that type of design have that weakness.
I would not use an Aero mount on a fighting gun either. The rings are just too flexible, a huge price to pay for a few ounces in weight.
What are some things to look for when trying to purchase a mount for an lpvo? Seems like a dumb question but I see some mounts mention moa and I don't know why.
Are vertically screwed rings better or are the opposite better? One solid mount or two ring mounts?
This is gong on an ar-15. I like the aero precision lightweight mounts but I'm cautious of durability.
I currently prefer the Badger C1 mount due to the design, how it interfaces with the upper/rail, and the machinework quality I've seen from Badger's products. You can get this mount in multiple heights. I prefer the 1.70" height. YMMV.
The Badger C1 is a tasteful mount, with meaningful options, from a tasteful company, that is proven to work/someone did all of your homework for you, and you won't have to wonder about it. Buy it. Install it. Forgeddaboutit.
I would not use an Aero mount on a fighting gun either. The rings are just too flexible, a huge price to pay for a few ounces in weight.
A few folks on the board have used the Aero mounts without problems, myself included. I cannot speak for anyone else, but my Aero mounts have been used with relatively light optics on "casual" use rifles. They are well designed and tend to "hold zero" when removed and re-installed because they have 3 clamping screws and recoil lugs. Good mounts for a dedicated .22 LR build or a lightweight deer/coyote rifle.
I completely agree with CB - they are not suited to a fighting rifle, or even a casual use rifle with heavy optics.
IMHO, the Warne XSKEL mounts are the least expensive mounts for a serious use rifle. They aren't terribly heavy, but are not QD either.
The "20 MOA" (and similar) mounts are used for long distance shooting - they basically point the scope up, not parallel to the bore. This allows you to "dial" the scope for targets way, way out there without running out of elevation adjustment on the scope.
I prefer horizontally split rings/mounts for the simple reason that they are easier to install, but have both types on various rifles.
Two piece mounts are only suitable for very short scopes, like the old Nikon 3x P223 and chinesium copies.
Quality trumps all other factors - a cheap mount (or rings) will always disappoint.
Andy
This
MOA mounts are meaningless for LPVOs. Pick one of these 3 and stop worrying about it.
Geissele
Badger Condition One
Scalarworks
And this
I generally do not recommend spring loaded lever mounts. They are more prone to zero shift from lateral impacts. Not singling out bobro in particular but all mounts with that type of design have that weakness.
I would not use an Aero mount on a fighting gun either. The rings are just too flexible, a huge price to pay for a few ounces in weight.
Could not agree more. I actually like the Aero on something like a strictly range or hunting rifle, I'm considering one for a 6.5 Grendel used in that role. But not on any 'serious use' rifle.
I'd add American Defense to the above list. They are absolutely solid, I've run multiple AD's over the years, never had a single issue. They are not the lightest out there, just weighed an AD Recon I'm using for an LPVO, weighs 8oz. Also interested in those Warne ones that Andylate mentions, I've been hearing good reports on those and they're not too heavy.
One caution - a well-respected member here (I don't recall whom) reported that the ring caps on a XSKEL mount he used for three gun would not stay tight and zero would shift when he least expected it.
I have had zero (meaning no issues at all, pun unintended) issues and both mine are always tight when I check them. I don't compete and don't run my guns super hard either, so I wanted to pass on the bad report with the good, so to speak.
Andy
One caution - a well-respected member here (I don't recall whom) reported that the ring caps on a XSKEL mount he used for three gun would not stay tight and zero would shift when he least expected it.
I have had zero issues and both mine are always tight when I check them. I don't compete and don't run my guns super hard either, so I wanted to pass on the bad report with the good, so to speak.
Andy
This is the first I've heard of the issue. I wouldn't say I run my guns super hard, but I do run one of them (with a Warne mount) fairly regularly in two gun matches. I haven't had any issues so far. Thanks for the heads up though.
MOA mounts are meaningless for LPVOs. Pick one of these 3 and stop worrying about it.
Geissele
Badger Condition One
Scalarworks
^ This one.
I bought the LEAP from Scalarworks. It is probably the lightest 30mm one-piece mount out there (5.6oz if memory serves). It also has the self-leveling feature to it which is pretty cool.
^ This one.
I bought the LEAP from Scalarworks. It is probably the lightest 30mm one-piece mount out there (5.6oz if memory serves). It also has the self-leveling feature to it which is pretty cool.
It is great, prob my favorite right now. That said, Badge Ordnance recently came out with the Condition One, which has modular attachments and is even a little lighter, right at 5 oz.
It is great, prob my favorite right now. That said, Badge Ordnance recently came out with the Condition One, which has modular attachments and is even a little lighter, right at 5 oz.
The comparable badger c1 mounts are about one ounce heavier than scalaworks. Bc1 does have a 5oz mount but it's a 1.57 35mm mount.
The comparable badger c1 mounts are about one ounce heavier than scalaworks. Bc1 does have a 5oz mount but it's a 1.57 35mm mount.
Bc1 30mm 1.54 is 5 oz complete, that's lighter than Scalarworks by my math and what I'm planning to try next. Are you seeing otherwise?
ETA: well interesting, seeing different weights on different sites, like this one, showing a lot of variation. Does Badger actually list the part weights somewhere, I'm not finding it their catalog?
https://www.bigtexoutdoors.com/product/badger-ordnance-condition-one-modular-mount-30mm-34mm-1-70-1-93-heights/
OK here's where I originally saw the weight on the "NV height" one I plan to get, 30mm, 5oz:
https://www.badgerordnance.com/condition-one-modular-mount/condition-one-modular-mount-30mm-1-54-nv-height-black.html
Bc1 30mm 1.54 is 5 oz complete, that's lighter than Scalarworks by my math and what I'm planning to try next. Are you seeing otherwise?
ETA: well interesting, seeing different weights on different sites, like this one, showing a lot of variation. Does Badger actually list the part weights somewhere, I'm not finding it their catalog?
https://www.bigtexoutdoors.com/product/badger-ordnance-condition-one-modular-mount-30mm-34mm-1-70-1-93-heights/
OK here's where I originally saw the weight on the "NV height" one I plan to get, 30mm, 5oz:
https://www.badgerordnance.com/condition-one-modular-mount/condition-one-modular-mount-30mm-1-54-nv-height-black.html
My mistake I was going off of big tex's website. I
This is the first I've heard of the issue. I wouldn't say I run my guns super hard, but I do run one of them (with a Warne mount) fairly regularly in two gun matches. I haven't had any issues so far. Thanks for the heads up though.
I did a little searching - the issue was raised on Brian Enos' forums, not here. User name is the same as one of the members here, I guess that is how I mixed it up. The posts also referenced the Skel mount and were from 2014. It is very possible Warne addressed whatever caused his issue years ago.
I should not have said I have "zero issues". I should have said I have had NO problems with my two XSKEL mounts, one of which holds an 18 oz Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 scope.
Andy
I did a little searching - the issue was raised on Brian Enos' forums, not here. User name is the same as one of the members here, I guess that is how I mixed it up. The posts also referenced the Skel mount and were from 2014. It is very possible Warne addressed whatever caused his issue years ago.
I should not have said I have "zero issues". I should have said I have had NO problems with my two XSKEL mounts, one of which holds an 18 oz Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 scope.
Andy
Thanks for the follow-up. Since this is the 1st time I've heard of this happening and it was several years ago I'm not going to worry too much about it.
Rather than start a new thread...I'd like input on mount heights. I've been watching and reading more about the 1.7-1.9 height mounts and the points made by folks who think they are better for using the LPVO as a red dot optic, snap shooting from offhand, etc. Not as great for prone shooting, since, it is said, you can't get as good and repeatable a cheek weld.
My LPVO is going on my main AR rifle. Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10, used in place of a red dot with a magnifier, etc.
I'm 6'3" and have a large head and the feeling that I'm "scrunching" to get a good look through an optic is now what I would prefer for most the applications I intend to use the LPVO-equipped AR in.
Looking for the current thinking on mount height question.
Travelingchild
08-25-20, 19:56
...
The "20 MOA" (and similar) mounts are used for long distance shooting - they basically point the scope up, not parallel to the bore. This allows you to "dial" the scope for targets way, way out there without running out of elevation adjustment on the scope.
...
Am I miss understanding something? A MOA tapered rail , taller in the rear tapering to the front, angles the horizontal line of the scope( Occular to Objective) therefore raising the muzzle end.
In underlined & bold, that would push the muzzle end down.
Rather than start a new thread...I'd like input on mount heights. I've been watching and reading more about the 1.7-1.9 height mounts and the points made by folks who think they are better for using the LPVO as a red dot optic, snap shooting from offhand, etc. Not as great for prone shooting, since, it is said, you can't get as good and repeatable a cheek weld.
My LPVO is going on my main AR rifle. Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10, used in place of a red dot with a magnifier, etc.
I'm 6'3" and have a large head and the feeling that I'm "scrunching" to get a good look through an optic is now what I would prefer for most the applications I intend to use the LPVO-equipped AR in.
Looking for the current thinking on mount height question.
I just got into lpvo's so this isn't worth much. My current setup is 1.5" high mount. After my first day shooting like that I noticed I would tend to get some scope shadow up high like my head wasn't getting low enough. I thought oh I just need a higher mount. Honestly, I hadn't shot my rifle in awhile, so I was dry firing in the house and I noticed on the rifle with the red dot that i was getting the proper weld and everything is clear. I thought we'll hold on and grabbed the rifle with the lpvo and started dry firing that and I was getting a good sight picture every time. I think i just wasn't getting a proper cheek weld. I'll find out next time I go out for live fire.
The deal is if you're running night vision get the 2" mount if you're not than get the lowest mount that is comfortable for you. The less hight over bore the better. I was considering a 1.7" mount but I'm going to keep trying this 1.5" mount out and just see how things play out.
Edit I forgot to mention I also moved my lpvo forward a few notches. I thought everything was in a good spot but it was actually further back than it needed to be. These things are more forgiving than expected which is awesome.
Am I miss understanding something? A MOA tapered rail , taller in the rear tapering to the front, angles the horizontal line of the scope( Occular to Objective) therefore raising the muzzle end.
In underlined & bold, that would push the muzzle end down.
You are not misunderstanding, I am backwards. You are correct, the rifle's muzzle is elevated relative to the scope. The effect/reason is correct - the 20 or nn MOA mount allows greater elevation adjustment than would be possible with a scope running parallel to the bore.
Andy
Here's an easy way to visualize and use a canted base like one listed at 20 MOA:
Let's say your scope is listed as having 100 MOA of total elevation adjustment. That means from center you have 50 MOA of Up adjustment and 50 MOA of Down adjustment.
By placing the scope in a canted (20 MOA) base you will "borrow" 20 MOA from the Down adjustment. Your scope will now have 70 MOA Up adjustment and 30 MOA Down adjustment. The total adjustment is still 100 MOA, as the base doesn't add anything, it merely changes the distribution of the adjustment available.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.