A2 flash hiders - good enough? [Archive]

Caballo

08-18-20, 18:50

I want you guys’ opinions on if I’m overthinking this whole muzzle device thing. For this carbine, I’m not gonna run a suppressor as of right now, and am not set on any suppressor to buy in the future as of right now. Since this is a defense oriented rifle, I’m not interested in muzzle brakes. So in that aspect, due to me not needing a suppressor mount for right now, and not wanting a muzzle brake, is the A2 flash hider a good enough, or best option for me? Is it still a relevant and effective option for the 21st century?

m4luvr

08-18-20, 19:01

of course it’s relevant if only to protect the muzzle of the barrel

Nowski87

08-18-20, 19:02

For what you are doing there is no reason to change. I dose that add blast or up the report and does well at hiding flash. Until you choose a can and only if you are using a QD do you need to change.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GTF425

08-18-20, 19:03

I don't see a reason to swap it. A2s are good, cost effective flash suppressors.

machinegunman

08-18-20, 20:39

A2's are good for what you are using your weapon for.

NWcityguy2

08-18-20, 21:44

A2 birdcages are pretty bad. They barely mitigate recoil and push the muzzle down with each shot. But, they are free and that is a big advantage.

If you're not willing to accept more noise, your options are pretty limited. One option would be a two piece brake like these... http://www.kineti-tech.com/create-a-2-piece-muzzle-brake-with-cucussion-redirector-sleeve/ The outer sleeve is aluminum though, so probably not meant for a lot of use with it attached.

Disciple

08-18-20, 21:54

They barely mitigate recoil and push the muzzle down with each shot.

Isn't a compensator supposed to push the muzzle down to counter muzzle rise?

ColtSeavers

08-18-20, 22:11

NWcityguy2

08-18-20, 22:13

Where does the idea that an AR has muzzle rise that needs to be countered come from? The recoil forces of the gun literally run in a straight line right to the point of contact with the shoulder.

A video...

https://youtu.be/aHPpPcyiGgs

Notice how the first shot from the A2, before the shooter has time to adjust, pushes the muzzle down.

Disciple

08-18-20, 22:25

Does your stance permit shoulder pressure primarily on the heel of the stock? If there is pressure on the toe there is a lever arm between the axis of the barrel and the center of pressure on the butt of the stock.

NWcityguy2

08-18-20, 22:31

My stance, 100%.

Disciple

08-18-20, 22:42

That must be the difference. Does it look something like this hastily found photo?

63447

With other stances center of pressure is somewhat below the heel.

63448

NWcityguy2

08-18-20, 23:06

JM has the stock behind the buffer tube clearly on his shoulder. Don't think that the very top of the stock is where the recoil forces push from.

This is a better example of a popular but poor shooting position. I'm not saying that I don't know why it is popular, but it is still a poor shooting position. To the person below, it doesn't really matter if the A2 is on the muzzle or not. When the gun isn't well secured against the body, the muzzle will move around regardless. It doesn't matter at that point which way the muzzle is moving, a fast follow-up shot will be off in one direction or another.

63449

1168

08-19-20, 04:03

For a 14-20” weapon, the A2 is the best muzzle device outside of a silencer, for a combat rifle. It is short, cheap, and does its job of mitigating flash, with a tiny bit of compensation. The TTAG articles posted above demonstrate its effectiveness for reducing flash. It is also a short, lightweight, and grunt-resistant silencer mount for those of us with compatible cans.

Glock9mm1990

08-19-20, 08:19

I have come to appreciate the A2 birdcage. Does a good job reducing flash without the obnoxious blast you get from comps/breaks. They are loud enough as is without ear pro, even more so with shorter barrels.

ST911

08-19-20, 08:35

opngrnd

08-19-20, 08:35

My flow chart usually looks like this:
A2<6315<suppressor mount.

If I already have the A2 and I'm not suppressing it, the rifle keeps the A2. FWIW, the 6315 is just a slightly better A2. I detest anything with negative muzzle rise.

Sry0fcr

08-19-20, 08:43

The main issue with muzzle devices is that the A2 is "good enough... for the money". If you want to do better in any particular performance category you have to spend exponentially more.

1168

08-19-20, 10:25

A2 is good enough for most. I prefer more flash suppression and install a Vortex G6A2. There is a difference, it just may not matter to some.
The Vortex absolutely has better flash suppression than the A2. As do most dedicated flash hiders that are longer and more expensive than the A2. Tradeoffs aren’t worth it for me except on 14.5” P/Ws and suppressor mounts because my short guns use cans.

But you are definitely correct.

AndyLate

08-19-20, 11:22

The Vortex absolutely has better flash suppression than the A2. As do most dedicated flash hiders that are longer and more expensive than the A2. Tradeoffs aren’t worth it for me except on 14.5” P/Ws and suppressor mounts because my short guns use cans.

But you are definitely correct.

YHM Phantom is probably the least expensive FH that outperforms an A1/A2. You are correct that it's both longer and more expensive than an A1/A2.

Andy

markm

08-19-20, 12:32

I can't wait to watch NWcityguy2's video link later. I cut off a permed pws comp due to increased risk of brain damage from the horrible concussion. It worked, but was too painful for me and everyone around.

I've never found the A2 to yield any noticeable comp effect. It may be doing it, but I can't feel it.

The battlecomp on an SBR, on the other hand, yield massive dip when rapid firing.

Hammer_Man

08-19-20, 13:29

For a flash suppressor with no intention of mounting a suppressor I'd go with a Smith Vortex.

justin_247

08-19-20, 13:46

Where does the idea that an AR has muzzle rise that needs to be countered come from? The recoil forces of the gun literally run in a straight line right to the point of contact with the shoulder.

A video...

Notice how the first shot from the A2, before the shooter has time to adjust, pushes the muzzle down.

Comparing an A2 to a muzzle brake is absurd. Completely. Different. Device.

And the Op explicitly said he didn't want a muzzle brake. Not that anybody cares, of course. People love hijacking other people's threads nowadays.

justin_247

08-19-20, 14:06

Op, for the price, the A2 really can't be beaten.

Check out those The Truth About Guns links that ColtSeavers posted and also check out these videos, as they compare dozens of different devices:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JkmWVCd674

Ultimately, it's up to how YOU prioritize flash suppression, recoil mitigation, muzzle rise, suppressor compatibility, length, durability, and price. I will say that, if you're going to get a suppressor, just use an A2 for now until you decide what brand suppressor you're going to get, and that'll help whittle down your options when it comes time.

Coal Dragger

08-19-20, 14:29

I’m curios about the OP’s budget, if he’s willing to spend money there are hybrid devices that do a good job of flash suppression while also bringing effective compensation/muzzle control to the party. Some of them are relatively inexpensive like the Forward Controls 6315, or BCM Gunfighter, and many of them are more complex and pricey like the Precision Armament AFAB or EFAB.

If a guy wanted to stay in that A2 footprint, and retain flash suppression as the primary function equal to the A2 the Forward Controls 6315 is not just a good pick, but one that doesn’t really cost that much.

ST911

08-19-20, 15:31

Brief hijack- I'd be interested to hear from anyone that's got experience or data comparing the Vortex G6A2 variants and the Centurion 9315, here:
https://centurionarms.com/parts-accessories/centurion-arms-9315-open-prong-flash-hider/

Coal Dragger

08-19-20, 15:47

I didn't even know those existed. Nice find.

titsonritz

08-19-20, 15:50

B.E. Meyer 249F, Smith Enterprises Vortex and White Sound FOSSA all have better flash suppression than an A2, whether they are worth the large increase in price is up to the individual.

NWcityguy2

08-19-20, 18:42

Comparing an A2 to a muzzle brake is absurd. Completely. Different. Device.

And the Op explicitly said he didn't want a muzzle brake. Not that anybody cares, of course. People love hijacking other people's threads nowadays.

People determine that fits their needs and wants by... making the comparison. Otherwise, choices and outcomes would be completely random as no one would know what features do what on a muzzle device.

And no one is hi-jacking this thread. I'll assume you are referring to me since you quoted my post. I'm not even discussing the PWS, it's just in the 2nd half of the video I posted.

Disciple

08-19-20, 20:55

For a flash suppressor with no intention of mounting a suppressor I'd go with a Smith Vortex.

Why the Vortex over a Blackout or JP FH?

Caballo

08-19-20, 21:37

Thank you and others for the input. Definitely going with the a2 if I can save money by going that route without losing too much performance.

Biggy

08-19-20, 21:54

To each there own, we go around once, I am not settling for good, and for me the extra money is irrelevant. For a flash hider I like the White Sound FOSSA. Hybrid MD, the AFAB or EFAB. Or I run a suppressor.

TBAR_94

08-19-20, 22:11

I've personally been very satisfied with the A2. Especially for the reasons you mention where you don't want to deal with excessive concussion.

26 Inf

08-19-20, 22:14

B.E. Meyer 249F, Smith Enterprises Vortex and White Sound FOSSA all have better flash suppression than an A2, whether they are worth the large increase in price is up to the individual.

This is a comparison between the White and the A2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXhGp9y8Wac

Here are the pictures from The Truth About Guns test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JkmWVCd674 (to me easier/better than looking at linked page.

SA80Dan

08-19-20, 22:57

I recently had an epiphany and got off the 'next great thing' muzzle device train and went back to A2s. Just got tired of the annoying side blast from brakes and equally annoying snagging of my otis pull throughs when cleaning.

markm

08-19-20, 23:49

To each there own, we go around once, I am not settling for good, and for me the extra money is irrelevant.

I would definitely pay for something I liked better than the A2. But I have yet to find anything.

The only other muzzle device I have is the BCM Gunfighter. It's barky, but doesn't have the concussion of an actual brake.

eodinert

08-20-20, 02:26

This is a comparison between the White and the A2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXhGp9y8Wac

While the video may present some useful information, the jarring intro and the black, featureless video made it unwatchable.

titsonritz

08-20-20, 03:47

To each there own, we go around once, I am not settling for good, and for me the extra money is irrelevant. For a flash hider I like the White Sound FOSSA. , the AFAB or EFAB. Or I run a suppressor.

I'm with this guy, he named my preferred FH and Hybrid MD (EFAB), I honestly don't see how it could be any better unless had a half off sale.

While the video may present some useful information, the jarring intro and the black, featureless video made it unwatchable.

Check out this article and video within...
https://www.blacksheepwarrior.com/white-sound-defense-fossa-556-flash-hider-review/

Here's better one IMO...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3lm6denbNU

titsonritz

08-20-20, 03:50

And another one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpy4DEMrd2M

556Cliff

08-20-20, 09:19

Why the Vortex over a Blackout or JP FH?

The Vortex eliminates the carbon collecting gap because it seats on the muzzle face and it requires no washers. It's also self tightening and you only have to install it to between 5 and 10 foot pounds maximum.

No other flash suppressor eliminates the carbon gap to my knowledge and that's the main reason that I like the Vortex... Well, that and no washers.

Disciple

08-20-20, 10:22

Thanks.

26 Inf

08-20-20, 18:52

While the video may present some useful information, the jarring intro and the black, featureless video made it unwatchable.

After the video loads I just pull the marker till I see something I want to watch. My headphones were hanging on a hook at the beginning so I don't know about jarring intro. Sorry 'bout that!

SomeOtherGuy

08-22-20, 20:11

I don't see a reason to swap it. A2s are good, cost effective flash suppressors.

A2's are good for what you are using your weapon for.

As above, the A2 does a pretty good job for hardly any money and no major drawbacks.

A2 birdcages are pretty bad. They barely mitigate recoil and push the muzzle down with each shot. But, they are free and that is a big advantage.

If you're not willing to accept more noise, your options are pretty limited. One option would be a two piece brake like these... http://www.kineti-tech.com/create-a-2-piece-muzzle-brake-with-cucussion-redirector-sleeve/ The outer sleeve is aluminum though, so probably not meant for a lot of use with it attached.

NOT this, if you don't have a specific need for another capability - like a brake, a more serious flash hider for night use on the 2-way range, or a suppressor mount, then you do NOT need to spend $50-150 on muzzle jewelry. Take this from someone whose collection of muzzle devices could start a nice jewelry store.

NWcityguy2

08-22-20, 23:48

NOT this, if you don't have a specific need for another capability - like a brake, a more serious flash hider for night use on the 2-way range, or a suppressor mount, then you do NOT need to spend $50-150 on muzzle jewelry. Take this from someone whose collection of muzzle devices could start a nice jewelry store.

You do lots of 2-way ranges I take it?

vicious_cb

08-23-20, 00:09

turnburglar

08-23-20, 01:30

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/556-muzzle-device-shootout/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-2/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-3/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar-15-flash-hiding-test-2/

This is some really good info right here.

After pouring over the data real quick; it appears the most balanced muzzle device is the Precision armament AFAB's. They score in the 50% recoil reduction and have only slightly more flash than an A2. I have been a fan of my warcomp, but I might give the AFAB a try next.

Disciple

08-23-20, 10:20

You do lots of 2-way ranges I take it?

It only needs to happen once to matter.

Disciple

08-23-20, 10:24

Real muzzle jewelry costs more than that!

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/picture-12-25.png

Look at all the burr left on that. $450 should cover some finishing work.

NWcityguy2

08-23-20, 18:32

It only needs to happen once to matter.

The ultimate half-answer, and from someone who wasn't even asked the question.

This is a discussion about muzzle devices. It doesn't matter that I was part of two-way ranges at night in Iraq, or that my last stand-off with an armed subject was just a few months ago. That doesn't make me, or anyone, the authority on muzzle devices.

Disciple

08-23-20, 22:40

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment, and I did not intend mine to answer anything. I am here to learn and admit I know very little at this point. What MD do you prefer, especially at night?