View Full Version : The challenge of Marxism. I found this an interesting read
Friend sent me a link to this it was an interesting read though lengthy. Hope I am [posting this right
https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/
Nightvisionary
08-21-20, 16:21
That was long but so worth the time to read. It clarified many many thoughts and ideas in my mind. We are at a crossroads.
My buddy sent it to me. Really clarified some things, granted I still can’t understand the mindset of these people. But it unfortunately reaffirms my feelings that things are gonna get ugly sooner than later, and everyone is gonna be along for the ride
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After reading that, it's a pretty good explanation of the theories and problems of Marxism, except it really never solves some problems, epistemology and the idea that oppression can be solved with enough brute force. How does one know in the end what oppression, or justice really look like, we have our various theories, but those various theories just lead to more of the same. You got to wonder what an uber leftist industrialist like Jeff Bezos with his $150 billion dollars is chasing after in the end? Peace of mind and the ability to control everything and everyone around him? His fellow Marxist will just kill him and take his stuff, justice demands it. Marx really never understood human nature in my opinion, that's why his schemes always ended in dystopia and murder. I have found that the man that gives me the most trouble by far...is me. I had to to learn that from someone else because I was too blind to my own nature. Marxists like a lot of other people, that hold other theories of human nature, always think it's the other guy that's the problem. Their real problem is staring back at them in the mirror. But in the end, if we just kill enough of the other guy, my real problems will end. We love our lies.
After reading that, it's a pretty good explanation of the theories and problems of Marxism, except it really never solves some problems, epistemology and the idea that oppression can be solved with enough brute force. How does one know in the end what oppression, or justice really look like, we have our various theories, but those various theories just lead to more of the same. You got to wonder what an uber leftist industrialist like Jeff Bezos with his $150 billion dollars is chasing after in the end? Peace of mind and the ability to control everything and everyone around him? His fellow Marxist will just kill him and take his stuff, justice demands it. Marx really never understood human nature in my opinion, that's why his schemes always ended in dystopia and murder. I have found that the man that gives me the most trouble by far...is me. I had to to learn that from someone else because I was too blind to my own nature. Marxists like a lot of other people, that hold other theories of human nature, always think it's the other guy that's the problem. Their real problem is staring back at them in the mirror. But in the end, if we just kill enough of the other guy, my real problems will end. We love our lies.
The article is a long scary read but well worth it. The scary part is exactly what you say it is, it's the other guy, he has more than I do.... He's the problem.
It's an excellent article and worth the read, if you want a sort of 10,000 foot-level view of how we got where we are politically, what is really going on, and where things are going if something doesn't change.
As he implies, election results alone--helpful as they may be in the short run--do nothing to change this long-term dynamic. We're in a titanic culture war whose outcome will determine the fate of Western civilization.
As with most such articles I read, the analysis is helpful, but they stop short of recommending what to do next.
It's an excellent article and worth the read, if you want a sort of 10,000 foot-level view of how we got where we are politically, what is really going on, and where things are going if something doesn't change.
As he implies, election results alone--helpful as they may be in the short run--do nothing to change this long-term dynamic. We're in a titanic culture war whose outcome will determine the fate of Western civilization.
As with most such articles I read, the analysis is helpful, but they stop short of recommending what to do next.
Right, how do arrest and reverse the trend? I know there are many liberal/old guard democrats who are very unhappy with their choices this time around [ I know, join the club, we have jackets ]. We have to convince them that after us, they're on the menu too. As civilized men and women the last thing we want is bloodshed, it will touch all of us, our children will learn of it first hand.
I have read with some interest that the Indians and Chinese have been fighting a border skirmish with fists and clubs...
The_War_Wagon
08-22-20, 15:01
https://thepeoplescube.com/images/6_Contradictions_Socialism_US.jpg
https://thepeoplescube.com/images/6_Contradictions_Socialism_US.jpg
And at the very root of it all is covetousness. We lust after our neighbor's life and goods
BoringGuy45
08-22-20, 23:28
The people at the center of Marxism are not the poor and oppressed. They never have been. The leaders are almost always wealthy academics, either students or professors (usually both). In fact, Lenin and later Marxists refused to let the working class lead the revolution. The usually push the idea that the "oppressed" are too stupid, too blind, and often too conservative to do what is in their own best interests, and so they must be led by ones who know what is best for them. So it's not the unemployed and lazy who are trying to overthrow the government; most of them aren't even useful idiots. It's why there's such support for criminals in Antifa and BLM: That's where they're recruiting their "Red Guards". The "poor" and "oppressed" people who will fight for them need to be ruthless and violent, but the bulk of the group leadership is from the middle and upper classes.
The Marxist MO is best described in the "Woman in the Red Dress" scene in the Matrix: The people they are supposedly fighting for are to be considered the enemy until they are "unplugged" from the system, And, most are too used to the system and dependent on it and so they will fight to protect it. Therefore, those people will need to be destroyed.
Aristotle's Politics is a good read especially his point about Grievance's
The article is a long scary read but well worth it. The scary part is exactly what you say it is, it's the other guy, he has more than I do.... He's the problem.
As Thatcher famously said, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money."
The appeal for most people is their political science teacher explained socialism / communism in only the "best possible case example" context and not the "fails every time it is tried" track record of reality. The other appeal is people who actually want a nanny state that does everything for them because they are not mentally or financially capable of taking care of themselves or anyone else.
But they seem to miss the fact that they pay a "user fee" to have somebody else manage their life and it rarely exceeds their actual income potential. So nothing is really free. You get shit services because you make shit money, the only thing that changes is for people who work hard to have more, they simply get shit services regardless. Between charities and personal corps, the very wealthy "rich people" who everyone assumes is going to pay for everything, actually manage to hold on to most of their income and pay very little in taxes.
They will gladly report that they owe $600,000 in taxes every year so people go "Woah...dude pays a LOT in taxes" but they pay people thousands of dollars to make that all go away to personal charities or personal business deductions, and even the people they pay to manage their money...well that fee is deductible as well.
As Thatcher famously said, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money."
The appeal for most people is their political science teacher explained socialism / communism in only the "best possible case example" context and not the "fails every time it is tried" track record of reality. The other appeal is people who actually want a nanny state that does everything for them because they are not mentally or financially capable of taking care of themselves or anyone else.
But they seem to miss the fact that they pay a "user fee" to have somebody else manage their life and it rarely exceeds their actual income potential. So nothing is really free. You get shit services because you make shit money, the only thing that changes is for people who work hard to have more, they simply get shit services regardless. Between charities and personal corps, the very wealthy "rich people" who everyone assumes is going to pay for everything, actually manage to hold on to most of their income and pay very little in taxes.
They will gladly report that they owe $600,000 in taxes every year so people go "Woah...dude pays a LOT in taxes" but they pay people thousands of dollars to make that all go away to personal charities or personal business deductions, and even the people they pay to manage their money...well that fee is deductible as well.
I think one reason marxism appeals is that some people mistakenly believe that they will have all the rights and lifestyle they enjoy now with none of the responsibilities. Free this, free that.. They never put together that somebody has to make this and that happen.
I think one reason marxism appeals is that some people mistakenly believe that they will have all the rights and lifestyle they enjoy now with none of the responsibilities. Free this, free that.. They never put together that somebody has to make this and that happen.
Probably the BIGGEST reason. Why do you think Obamacare passed? Everyone thought it would be FREE. Deomcrats had been talking about FREE healthcare since Clinton was in office, then when the finally got it, turns out it wasn't free, might be more than you currently pay and the quality probably won't be as good and that is because nobody factors in the "administration fee." This is why you don't want the US government involved in any service industries that are better handled by the private sector.
Social security is a F'ing joke compared to what you'd expect from the same lifetime of investment with a private money manager / IRA set up. The only difference is most people aren't responsible enough to make monthly contributions to some kind of retirement fund so they PAY the government to take the money from them in the form of withholding and invest it for them, with really crappy returns. You could probably take your SS payment to Vegas every month and do about as well.
And now the government is running the medical insurance biz and people are shocked that it's basically the DMV experience. What did they really think would happen?
And helping the most needy? Give me a break, wanna know what happens if you are homeless? You have no fixed address so basically you can't get benefits of any kind. So the people they claim to want to help most continue to live on the street with nothing.
But if you know how to game the system, crank out a bunch of kids and qualify for section 8 housing you can get all the trimmings that go with it including health care, free phones, free groceries and a monthly cost of living allowance. And of course these are usually young adults capable of doing actual jobs and they often do have something on the side for additional bennies. The only way they could be a bigger drain on everyone else is if they were sitting their lazy ass in jail where costs to feed, clothe and house them are dramatically higher.
It's all the biggest scam I ever heard of.
Probably the BIGGEST reason. Why do you think Obamacare passed? Everyone thought it would be FREE. Deomcrats had been talking about FREE healthcare since Clinton was in office, then when the finally got it, turns out it wasn't free, might be more than you currently pay and the quality probably won't be as good and that is because nobody factors in the "administration fee." This is why you don't want the US government involved in any service industries that are better handled by the private sector.
Social security is a F'ing joke compared to what you'd expect from the same lifetime of investment with a private money manager / IRA set up. The only difference is most people aren't responsible enough to make monthly contributions to some kind of retirement fund so they PAY the government to take the money from them in the form of withholding and invest it for them, with really crappy returns. You could probably take your SS payment to Vegas every month and do about as well.
And now the government is running the medical insurance biz and people are shocked that it's basically the DMV experience. What did they really think would happen?
And helping the most needy? Give me a break, wanna know what happens if you are homeless? You have no fixed address so basically you can't get benefits of any kind. So the people they claim to want to help most continue to live on the street with nothing.
But if you know how to game the system, crank out a bunch of kids and qualify for section 8 housing you can get all the trimmings that go with it including health care, free phones, free groceries and a monthly cost of living allowance. And of course these are usually young adults capable of doing actual jobs and they often do have something on the side for additional bennies. The only way they could be a bigger drain on everyone else is if they were sitting their lazy ass in jail where costs to feed, clothe and house them are dramatically higher.
It's all the biggest scam I ever heard of.
Preach it from the highest mountain ! There's a place where everything is taken care of for you... we call it prison. There is an occupation where there are zero responsibilities [and zero rights] it's called slave...
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