RMR with LPVO - Current Thinking and Advice

[JWill1776]

I have received my VORTEX Razor Gen III (1-10) and would like to understand the current thinking on using a RMR with it at either the 12 or 3 position for immediate access to 1x while the scope is set at something past 5 or so.

1) How common is this practice?
2) Am I thinking correctly when I assume this is done to offer maximum options under all situations?
3) Best mounting position - looking at SPUHR mounts which make it possible actually to get it mounted on top of the mount itself, or at 3?
4) Best practices, etc.

Thanks for your input suggestions, as always, very much appreciate the knowledge base here.

[jpmuscle]

Data point;

I have an RDS at 12 on one of my 14.5s with a Razor 1-6 in 1.93” Geissele Mount. Primary purpose was to add a passive option for use with Nods. To this extent it accomplishes it well. But past that it’s meh.

On the 1.93 it’s to high to maintain a stable repeatable cheek weld if you’re using it in conjunction with your LPVO and transitioning between 1x and magnified. Offset at 3 o’clock in the optics centerline would be much better since you’re just rolling the gun over. Or if the mount were 1.5/.7 in height.


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[JWill1776]

Thanks

[scooter22]

The Badger Ordnance COMM scope mounts and addition of their J arm is the best combination in my opinion.

Placing the RDS at 1200 on top of the LPVO is the worst possible position IMO.

[Wake27]

The Badger Ordnance COMM scope mounts and addition of their J arm is the best combination in my opinion.

Placing the RDS at 1200 on top of the LPVO is the worst possible position IMO.

Agree with the first part. Not sure on the second, I’ve been impatiently waiting on Badger to release their 12:00 mount. I’ve been leaving my razors on 1x because most of the targets I shoot are maxed out at 100m but know of some mil guys that used the razor or other LVPO maxed out and ran offset RDS as primary for their last trip to AFG.


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[Pappabear]

I had one of the ACOGS with RDS atop. It didn't bother me not to have the same cheek weld, but I prefer the offset much better. I have a Burris 1-8 with offset and its pretty nice.

PB

[RHINOWSO]

I'm cheaper and like the redundancy of having irons offset instead of a RDS.

I do have an RMR at 12 on a Geissele 1.5(ish) mount on top of a 2.5-10x24, but it's more for driving the scope to targets at distance - however if I know I am going to be shooting up close, it's not hard to use the RMR like you would a tall Aimpoint.

Transitioning from the optic to 12 or 3, I think rolling to 3 is faster / more intuitive but if you know going in you want to shoot with your dot, 12 isn't hard to use.

Like nearly all things firearms, "it depends" applies.

[Twilk73]

I haven't figured this out yet either. Rolling the gun to an offset is my prefered way but than I can't transition to my weak side when behind a barricade. On top is just not for me height over bore hurts my head when I start thinking about angles lol. Inside 50 yards its hard to beat a red dot in going to try to just use an lpvo once I figure out what lpvo I want. Something like the d-evo is cool because it makes the magnification secondary. What if we had mounts that made the lpvo lower and than the red dot sat on top.

I just want that magical red dot primary with lpvo secondary.

[mebiuspower]

The Spuhr setup on this AR is perfect for 5 o'clock hold.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wqbZg2waXE

[SteveL]

I like the concept. Technically the RDS is more at 1:30 than 3:00 though (I'm done nitpicking now).

I currently have a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15 on my Recce style rifle with a Holosun 508 V2 on an offset Arisaka mount. Rolling the gun to the offset is pretty quick and easy to do, but I don't have a lot of time on it yet. My scope mount is the Badger Ordnance Condition One Mount. I'm going to move my RDS to the integrated COMM as soon as the mounts are ever back in stock.

Obviously it's not going to work in every situation. As noted above, shooting weak side is not ideal if you need to use the RDS, but I feel the advantages are worth it.

[Valhalla]

1) How common is this practice?

Common enough. The idea is not new (has been around for years), but only recently gotten more traction due to the influx of low-cost (yet reliable) MRDS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBvx1GJNUA4&feature=youtu.be


2) Am I thinking correctly when I assume this is done to offer maximum options under all situations?

You could think of it as "options". But to us, it is primary to *increase your reaction speed* under all situations. Doing ready-up drills with a canted red dot is very fast, if not faster than traditional 12 o-clock red dots. Fun fact - try to hold a fist as if you are doing boxing. Notice your fist is not straight-up... it's canted. Your body/arm is more natural that way, including when it is holding a gun. Plus, as you've stated it allows you to keep the LPVO at higher magnification for immediate long-range threat assessment (and if necessary engagement), simply by rolling the gun back to the straight-up position. Another added benefit of combining LPVO and red dot, is that if/when your red dot fails (dead battery etc), you can always dial the LPVO back to 1x and use it as back-up CQB optic.


3) Best mounting position - looking at SPUHR mounts which make it possible actually to get it mounted on top of the mount itself, or at 3?

Neither, especially for an AR. 4 o-clock is actually the most ideal position, because your cheekweld doesn't change between LPVO vs RDS. The key is to maintain matching sight-height-over-bore between the two optics, because on most AR your buffer tube / cheekweld is in-line with the barrel. This image will help explain:

https://www.valhallatactical.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/74c1057f7991b4edb2bc7bdaa94de933/2/0/2020-04-28_hanger_tilt.jpg

Notice the center line of the LPVO, vs the center of the RDS glass, both has the same distance to the bore. This enable you to roll the gun over without moving your head at all, and the dot will magically appear (or when rolling back to the LPVO, your eye will automatically be back in the eye-box). Most co-witness LPVO mounts will work this way with offset RDS mounts (including the C1 mount using their own piggy-back RDS offset attachment), but when you go to 1.93 things changes...


4) Best practices, etc.

Don't go cheap if you can afford it, but also don't be afraid to consider imported optics if budget is a limiting factor. Any RDS is better than none, and you can always upgrade later when money allows. Also, bring the RDS as close to the main optic as possible. Don't get too hung-up about some part of the LPVO interfering with the RDS glass. For example, if you get the Arisaka offset mount, try your best to use it at the 35 degree position even if a corner of the RDS is blocked by the LPVO turret. You should be shooting both-eyes open and your brain will overlay a lot of the information for you, especially at typical RDS engagement distances. The speed at which you can acquire the dot by only rolling the gun 35 degrees (vs 45 degrees) are worth sacrificing the slight obstruction. Not to mention we noticed a lot of people started "chicken-winging" when they have to roll their guns all the way to 45 degrees.

Judging from your other threads, I think you are on the right track. Hope that helps!

[Leuthas]

snip


I just browsed your website and came across the Rukh. wow.