View Full Version : Former Green Beret charged with spying for Russia
That's not a good development and treason should end with firing squad:
Former Green Beret charged with spying for Russia
"According to the indictment, Debbins was slowly groomed and indoctrinated into the Russian intelligence apparatus starting in December 1996 when Debbins traveled to Chelyabinsk as part of an independent study program, according to the indictment filed in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia.
He was assigned a code name by Russian intelligence agents and signed a document saying he wanted to serve Russia, the Department of Justice said.
Debbins allegedly shared classified information about his time in the Special Forces, including names and information on his former team members that Russian agents could evaluate and possibly approach those people to see if they would cooperate."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-green-beret-charged-spying-russia-n1237750
Yep, traitors should be executed. That said, the Walker ring was said to be the most damaging to the U.S. in history, but none of them got executed..
Averageman
08-22-20, 10:12
It's not going to stop until someone takes a bullet for it.
Honestly, if there was ever a reason to torture with the intent of giving someone a painful slow death, screwing your Team by turning their data over to a foreign intelligence agency might be it.
Put him and a bunch of the dems in a room with water no food and let them starve to death
This whole story is fishy. Did you guys read the whole article or just the headline?
The guy went to Russia before he joined the Army.
After he joined the Army and was in S.F. and stationed in S. Korea, he went to Russia while on leave.
Does the Army do background check on SF candidates? I don't know because I've never been one, only saw the movies.
Also went you (anybody) leave the country and upon your returning to the U.S. or wherever you were (S. Korea?), the custom agent asks you where you were, what you were doing there, etc. Did his answer set any alarm off? I would suppose that being an SF, he received "Secret" or "Top Secret" clearance from the DOD. I'm pretty sure, they know where you are/went/been.
Fishy I smell. Yoda said.
Averageman
08-22-20, 21:21
Yes, they do background checks, but I've known a couple Russians who were stellar troops.
National origin means nothing.
BoringGuy45
08-22-20, 21:22
This whole story is fishy. Did you guys read the whole article or just the headline?
The guy went to Russia before he joined the Army.
After he joined the Army and was in S.F. and stationed in S. Korea, he went to Russia while on leave.
Does the Army do background check on SF candidates? I don't know because I've never been one, only saw the movies.
Also went you (anybody) leave the country and upon your returning to the U.S. or wherever you were (S. Korea?), the custom agent asks you where you were, what you were doing there, etc. Did his answer set any alarm off? I would suppose that being an SF, he received "Secret" or "Top Secret" clearance from the DOD. I'm pretty sure, they know where you are/went/been.
Fishy I smell. Yoda said.
Sounds like someone else higher up in the Army was on the GRU payroll and was signing off on this guy doing all this stuff without it sounding alarms.
This whole story is fishy. Did you guys read the whole article or just the headline?
The guy went to Russia before he joined the Army.
After he joined the Army and was in S.F. and stationed in S. Korea, he went to Russia while on leave.
Does the Army do background check on SF candidates? I don't know because I've never been one, only saw the movies.
Also went you (anybody) leave the country and upon your returning to the U.S. or wherever you were (S. Korea?), the custom agent asks you where you were, what you were doing there, etc. Did his answer set any alarm off? I would suppose that being an SF, he received "Secret" or "Top Secret" clearance from the DOD. I'm pretty sure, they know where you are/went/been.
Fishy I smell. Yoda said.
Yes there is a pretty extensive background check, and any foreign travel raises questions. Not that foreign travel is an automatic disqualifier, but they do ask a lot of questions about it.
How about a former Marine, lived in Russia, came back. Possibilities?
How about a former Marine, lived in Russia, came back. Possibilities?
I see what you did there.
Sounds like someone else higher up in the Army was on the GRU payroll and was signing off on this guy doing all this stuff without it sounding alarms.
So a Bernie supporter you think?
BoringGuy45
08-23-20, 12:34
So a Bernie supporter you think?
I'm saying that the GRU no doubt has more moles in ARSOF than just this guy. I'm saying that they probably need to look at whoever passed this guy for secret clearance or signed off on his trips to Russia, as they probably are working for the Russians as well.
I'm saying that the GRU no doubt has more moles in ARSOF than just this guy. I'm saying that they probably need to look at whoever passed this guy for secret clearance or signed off on his trips to Russia, as they probably are working for the Russians as well.
"Probably working for the Russians as well"? Reach much Clancy??
The initial background checks for an enlisted person in any of the services is pretty simple; and since you don't need to be a American citizen, it's not that involved. I don't recall you need a SF 86 just to enlist, but you do for SF (same to get a commission, any branch, or any number of enlisted/officer jobs).
I went to pre-Russia USSR in the late 80s, and Pakistan mid-80s. The SF 86 was a royal and total pain in the ass, but not horrible. Given the incredible amount of back-checking and volume of people needing clearances and background checks, it's not out of the realm of possibility that stuff falls through cracks. Interim clearances turn into long-term events.
People get swayed by ideology, pu$$y, or money; or a combo of all three.
BoringGuy45
08-24-20, 12:25
"Probably working for the Russians as well"? Reach much Clancy??
The initial background checks for an enlisted person in any of the services is pretty simple; and since you don't need to be a American citizen, it's not that involved. I don't recall you need a SF 86 just to enlist, but you do for SF (same to get a commission, any branch, or any number of enlisted/officer jobs).
I went to pre-Russia USSR in the late 80s, and Pakistan mid-80s. The SF 86 was a royal and total pain in the ass, but not horrible. Given the incredible amount of back-checking and volume of people needing clearances and background checks, it's not out of the realm of possibility that stuff falls through cracks. Interim clearances turn into long-term events.
People get swayed by ideology, pu$$y, or money; or a combo of all three.
What, you don't think it's possible??
What, you don't think it's possible??
In 2020 all things are possible. But I think it's highly, extraordinarily improbable. SF is small potatoes, if the Russians wanted to do that, why not do it where they could get more intel? The people who do these is not just one person; a SF 86 will take a team of people, so it would be very hard to manipulate the outcome. Too many weird and rare things would have to fall into place.
"Probably working for the Russians as well"? Reach much Clancy??
The initial background checks for an enlisted person in any of the services is pretty simple; and since you don't need to be a American citizen, it's not that involved. I don't recall you need a SF 86 just to enlist, but you do for SF (same to get a commission, any branch, or any number of enlisted/officer jobs).
I went to pre-Russia USSR in the late 80s, and Pakistan mid-80s. The SF 86 was a royal and total pain in the ass, but not horrible. Given the incredible amount of back-checking and volume of people needing clearances and background checks, it's not out of the realm of possibility that stuff falls through cracks. Interim clearances turn into long-term events.
People get swayed by ideology, pu$$y, or money; or a combo of all three.
That's always blown my mind.
That's always blown my mind.
We had guy back in the mid 80's in Panama who was from Russia. Franzutsov or something similar. He was a PFC then a SP4 in our Airborne infantry unit (different company than I was in). He had an accent and he'd occasionally get razzed but everything I heard was that he was squared away.
Pretty distressing that anyone dedicated enough to become SF can't figure out who the "bad guys" are.
I expect it from Christopher Boyce / Andrew Lee types, but not SF. Of course I'll never be able to completely understand guys in SEAL teams who steal operational funds and kill SF whistle blowers so I guess I'll always be shocked every time this kind of stuff happens.
dwhitehorne
08-25-20, 07:50
I always wonder how these people fall through the cracks. I had different levels of security clearances with the Federal government for 30 years. I would think that anyone with special forces would have a clearance. When I had a TS SCI many years ago I had to report planned foreign travel to the security officer and get it approved prior to travel. My honey moon to Italy was a paperwork nightmare because we got on the Eurorail and traveled to three different cities. When I got back I had to turn in an itinerary and all of my receipts like I was on an official government trip. Additionally I would have to fill out a foreign contact form when I talked to some people I kept in contact with after being on embassy duty. Now that I'm thinking back when filling out all of those forms, I guess they just went into the circular file. David
That's always blown my mind.
Remember the early days of SF had mostly foreign nationals, a lot of whom came from communist bloc countries. A SF legend (Larry Thorne) served the Finnish military and Nazi military in WWII.
Pretty distressing that anyone dedicated enough to become SF can't figure out who the "bad guys" are.
I expect it from Christopher Boyce / Andrew Lee types, but not SF. Of course I'll never be able to completely understand guys in SEAL teams who steal operational funds and kill SF whistle blowers so I guess I'll always be shocked every time this kind of stuff happens.
Money, women, and ideology often transcend loyalty and unit. It disgusts me, but I see how it happens.
I always wonder how these people fall through the cracks. I had different levels of security clearances with the Federal government for 30 years. I would think that anyone with special forces would have a clearance. When I had a TS SCI many years ago I had to report planned foreign travel to the security officer and get it approved prior to travel. My honey moon to Italy was a paperwork nightmare because we got on the Eurorail and traveled to three different cities. When I got back I had to turn in an itinerary and all of my receipts like I was on an official government trip. Additionally I would have to fill out a foreign contact form when I talked to some people I kept in contact with after being on embassy duty. Now that I'm thinking back when filling out all of those forms, I guess they just went into the circular file. David
SF is 'just' secret, but I am sure once you in you are likely to have a need for TS/SCI (which as you know requires a much higher level of background investigation). Yes, the detail requiring TS/SCI is microscopic and a real pain.
Remember the early days of SF had mostly foreign nationals, a lot of whom came from communist bloc countries. A SF legend (Larry Thorne) served the Finnish military and Nazi military in WWII.
True but with the creation of Delta the community as a whole took something of a dramatic overhaul. I'll never say anything negative about UDT / Seals of the Vietnam era, but they were a very different animal by the late 80s.
And one would think they'd be on point for this kind of shit. Anyone in the special forces community should operate with complete transparency regarding bank accounts, personal relationships and the like. Sure it's a burden, but it's a burden that helps keep everyone else you work with alive.
If somebody starts making regular deposits that are very disproportionate to their income, they should be checked into. If somebody starts banging some supermodel quality recently arrived from the former Eastern bloc hottie somebody should probably take a look at who she is and her back ground. And here is the easy one, if somebody suddenly starts preaching wackadoo politics and extremist conspiracy shit, somebody somewhere should probably look into that.
99% of the time it's going to be nothing. Money on the side because motivated people sometimes have other projects that generate income. Banging a 10 when you are a 6, well sometimes being a beret or seal makes girls squeal. And sometimes these guys have seen or done so much that they might have an alternative view of the world outside the typical norm. But due diligence demands that you still check these things out.
And sure if you find something not on the up and up but isn't a national security issue, you give these guys a bit of latitude. Personal shit stays personal shit. Team shit is team shit. National security is national security.
Money, women, and ideology often transcend loyalty and unit. It disgusts me, but I see how it happens.
First, pretty funny given what I just posted. Second, I agree but I'm always amazed that the person involved can't see it or refuses to see it.
Diamondback
08-25-20, 18:40
First, pretty funny given what I just posted. Second, I agree but I'm always amazed that the person involved can't see it or refuses to see it.
We're all vulnerable to temptation in one way or another, all it takes is the right kind of tongue to whisper just the right words in one's ear at just the right time.
We're all vulnerable to temptation in one way or another, all it takes is the right kind of tongue to whisper just the right words in one's ear at just the right time.
In SERE We are so hungry, so tired, so sleep deprived, they messed with our had so much, I would have confessed to being the second gunman on the grassy knoll in the Kennedy assassination. They did that on purpose to show us how easy it is to be manipulated once the enemy finds your soft spot.
Back in the old days, my first job out of college, before I ever joined the military, I worked in the intelligence community (nothing big or particularly important), and their general orientation, while not nearly as extreme as SERE, kind of pointed out the same thing, and they did it in a much more humane way: basically said if you're a schlep and a gorgeous woman is coming on to you, you need to ask yourself why that might be the case.
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