Help me spend my money wisely

[maxpetros]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

Not new to the AR platform but absolutely not as well versed in the finer details as the individuals here. I'm current military so a lot of time with an M4 and an aimpoint/ACOG.

The point of this post is to invest in one truly high quality do all AR set up. Only AR I currently own is a Sig M400 elite titanium, fine rifle thats ran well so far but I know it's certainly not what would be considered duty grade. This rifle will be my primary defensive carbine and with an upcoming transition to civilian law enforcement, can possibly be pressed into a duty role. I want to set it up with this in mind.

I'm a younger guy who's managed his money wisely, so keep in mind I'm willing to pay for legitimate quality but its certainly not going to be a 5000 dollar set up. With that said this is a buy once cry once set up until I have the ability to accrue all the toys I want.

My current plan:
-BCM 14.5 upper with pinned gunfighter comp, MCMR handguard, BCM BCG
- lower from my current sig (like the ambi controls and its currently got a two stage trigger that breaks at a crisp ~4 pound pull.) Not opposed to a new lower set up if that would be beneficial
- surefire scout light of some flavor and pressure pad
- standard milspec buffer tube and magpul stock currently on the lower

For optics- I've been using a trijicon accupower LPVO in a bobro QD mount on the sig. I'm not a fan of the red dots ive used in the past as most seem to bloom with my astigmatism. The other option is a holographic sight like an eotech but tnat comes with reduced battery life.

So either:
Trijicon accupower+ current magpul pro sights or something like dueck defenses rapid transition sights. Open to other LPVOs if this doesn't meet the "duty grade" requirements.

Or

An eotech + scalarworks fixed front sight and the magpul pro rear

Anything I'm missing or off base on?


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[Steve-0-]

It sounds like you have the optics and setup pretty well picked out. Optics are honestly an end user preference. Youll probably go through several before you decide on the best. I also have a bad astigmastim so i hear ya on aimpoints. I do hear the T2 and Comp M5 are better but havent had time behind them.

The one thing id advise heaviest on is not going 14.5" pinned because if you dont like that comp or rail, youre pretty much stuck with it. Go 16" until youre positive your like the setup then your next gun go 14.5 or 13.7".

[ssc]

Based on your thoughts, I would recommend the Sionics patrol rifle. This is the same one I set up my SIL with-who LVMPD. I have 3 of the uppers and they have been outstanding. Just as a comparison, I also have Colts, LMT's, and BCM's. Nothing wrong with the BCM's per your thoughts. I would agree that a 16 inch would be better for the reasons stated. I like the EoTech. Very easy and quick to change out the battery. It is common and can fit a couple in the grip.
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/home/9-patrol-ssk-12.html

Cheers, Steve

[maxpetros]

The thought of a 16" barrel is a good point. Currently a resident of NJ and am forced to have my mizzle device pinned regardless. Figured at least going with a 14.5 would be a niced balance and it'd have to be pinned regardless of where i am (plan to move out to Idaho within the year). The sig currently has an obnoxious brake pinned to it, which is another reason for wanting to trip that upper.


I've shot brakes enough to know I certainly don't want one for this build and honestly haven't had any issues with tje standard A2 flash hider.

Figured the gunfighter comp would play nicer indoors, especially as a room clearing weapon and not hitting a partner with blast and concussion like a brake.


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[Steve-0-]

The thought of a 16" barrel is a good point. Currently a resident of NJ and am forced to have my mizzle device pinned regardless. Figured at least going with a 14.5 would be a niced balance and it'd have to be pinned regardless of where i am (plan to move out to Idaho within the year). The sig currently has an obnoxious brake pinned to it, which is another reason for wanting to trip that upper.


I've shot brakes enough to know I certainly don't want one for this build and honestly haven't had any issues with tje standard A2 flash hider.

Figured the gunfighter comp would play nicer indoors, especially as a room clearing weapon and not hitting a partner with blast and concussion like a brake.


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If thats the case, score and SOLGW Nox pinned 13.7. Its a smooth upper and the Nox is a great balance of comp/FH. NJ is pretty ****ed up so I get the 14.5 route now.

[oldbrowndog]

My only thought would be skip the SureFire. Modlite and Cloud Defensive are eating SureFire's lunch, and make high performance lights that actually have some throw and aren't just all flood.

I sold 7 or 8 SureFire scout lights to convert to 5 or 6 Modlites after I tried my first.

[maxpetros]

If thats the case, score and SOLGW Nox pinned 13.7. Its a smooth upper and the Nox is a great balance of comp/FH. NJ is pretty ****ed up so I get the 14.5 route now.

Oh thats a solid option too. Yeah unfortunately NJ gun laws are atrocious, part of the reason for getting out of there.

With the muzzle device being permanent, any other solid options to consider for a defensive rifle? Obviously recoil mitigation is nice but I really don't think it's the primary goal on a 5.56.

I'm not worried about suppressor use with this setup (when that time comes, I'll build another upper specifically with that in mind)


Edit: forgive my ignorance, I now see the nox was your recommendation
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[maxpetros]

My only thought would be skip the SureFire. Modlite and Cloud Defensive are eating SureFire's lunch, and make high performance lights that actually have some throw and aren't just all flood.

I sold 7 or 8 SureFire scout lights to convert to 5 or 6 Modlites after I tried my first.Good to know, kinda assumed they were the gold standard but will happily consider a superior option. Seen a little of the cloud defensive but will look more into it

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[Glock9mm1990]

BCM is a great choice. Though I would get the Surefire Warcomp instead of the BCM comp if it were me. Better at reducing flash which the BCM doesn’t do and less blast.
For lights I would go Modlite OKW over the Surefire Scout.

Buffer System I would go Vltor A5 with A5H2 and Sprinco green.

[JediGuy]

Seems like you’re on the right path.

Regarding the lower: I’m with you, seems like a fine idea to just keep what you have. It seems like you already know it works. No need to upgrade to an A5 setup on an existing lower. You can always make changes later. I actually used M400 ambi controls on my standard AR lower for a little while; they’re “rougher” than some other options but work just fine.

Do you plan on selling the entire upper you have? If not, you might be able to able to get exactly what you want in a new barrel and handguard sent to Citizen Arms with your existing upper plus a Surefire Warcomp to pin. Nothing wrong with keeping it as a spare, though.

If you want a new complete factory upper, and it has to be pinned anyway, someone suggested a <14.0 barrel, which is great if you plan on getting a compatible suppressor. Otherwise it seems like a tradeoff for the same overall length but more weight.
If you aren’t/can’t get a suppressor, I’d just get a 14.5-16 pencil or lightweight barreled upper. BCM, Colt CCU, Sionics, plenty of great options. Sometimes a Colt upper will pop up with a factory pinned Surefire muzzle device, too.

[maxpetros]

Seems like you’re on the right path.

Regarding the lower: I’m with you, seems like a fine idea to just keep what you have. It seems like you already know it works. No need to upgrade to an A5 setup on an existing lower. You can always make changes later. I actually used M400 ambi controls on my standard AR lower for a little while; they’re “rougher” than some other options but work just fine.

Do you plan on selling the entire upper you have? If not, you might be able to able to get exactly what you want in a new barrel and handguard sent to Citizen Arms with your existing upper plus a Surefire Warcomp to pin. Nothing wrong with keeping it as a spare, though.

If you want a new complete factory upper, and it has to be pinned anyway, someone suggested a <14.0 barrel, which is great if you plan on getting a compatible suppressor. Otherwise it seems like a tradeoff for the same overall length but more weight.
If you aren’t/can’t get a suppressor, I’d just get a 14.5-16 pencil or lightweight barreled upper. BCM, Colt CCU, Sionics, plenty of great options. Sometimes a Colt upper will pop up with a factory pinned Surefire muzzle device, too.

I've considered selling the upper but don't necessarily need to. Considered keeping it for a plinker or training tool.

One of the reasons I'm considering a full factory upper is the garbage brake pinned to the sig when i got it. Unless I want to just hack the muzzle device off and throw the barrel in the trash it seems like I wont be able to pull the barrel and replace it.

A suppressor is definitely a future purchase once able, but I think this build won't be the suppressor host once that time comes.

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[ColtSeavers]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

Not new to the AR platform but absolutely not as well versed in the finer details as the individuals here. I'm current military so a lot of time with an M4 and an aimpoint/ACOG.

The point of this post is to invest in one truly high quality do all AR set up. Only AR I currently own is a Sig M400 elite titanium, fine rifle thats ran well so far but I know it's certainly not what would be considered duty grade. This rifle will be my primary defensive carbine and with an upcoming transition to civilian law enforcement, can possibly be pressed into a duty role. I want to set it up with this in mind.

I'm a younger guy who's managed his money wisely, so keep in mind I'm willing to pay for legitimate quality but its certainly not going to be a 5000 dollar set up. With that said this is a buy once cry once set up until I have the ability to accrue all the toys I want.

My current plan:
-BCM 14.5 upper with pinned gunfighter comp, MCMR handguard, BCM BCG
- lower from my current sig (like the ambi controls and its currently got a two stage trigger that breaks at a crisp ~4 pound pull.) Not opposed to a new lower set up if that would be beneficial
- surefire scout light of some flavor and pressure pad
- standard milspec buffer tube and magpul stock currently on the lower

For optics- I've been using a trijicon accupower LPVO in a bobro QD mount on the sig. I'm not a fan of the red dots ive used in the past as most seem to bloom with my astigmatism. The other option is a holographic sight like an eotech but tnat comes with reduced battery life.

So either:
Trijicon accupower+ current magpul pro sights or something like dueck defenses rapid transition sights. Open to other LPVOs if this doesn't meet the "duty grade" requirements.

Or

An eotech + scalarworks fixed front sight and the magpul pro rear

Anything I'm missing or off base on?

For the upper:
I wouldn't get the gunfighter comp pinned, it will be a PITA to clean and isn't a particularly good comp to begin with. Get an extended A2 instead.
If you plan to get a suppressor, get a compatible muzzle device for the suppressor you intend to get.
If you plan to get a suppressor, do you also plan to go SBR? If so, might as well go shorter than 14.5", and forget the pin and weld so you don't have to worry about muzzle device/suppressor compatibility. Go pistol in the mean time.
Or just go straight pistol with a suppressor.

For Optics:
I would go offset RDS/Reflex over offset fixed irons. Hell, I'd go offset Magpul Pro BUIS before I go fixed offset BUIS.
Eotech plus fixed front and folding rear sights I have no issue with.
You're going to have to decide for yourself what optic setup works best for you between LPVO or RDS though.

[JediGuy]

I've considered selling the upper but don't necessarily need to. Considered keeping it for a plinker or training tool.

One of the reasons I'm considering a full factory upper is the garbage brake pinned to the sig when i got it. Unless I want to just hack the muzzle device off and throw the barrel in the trash it seems like I wont be able to pull the barrel and replace it.

A suppressor is definitely a future purchase once able, but I think this build won't be the suppressor host once that time comes.

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I never see a downside to having a spare complete upper.

That said, I imagine there is a way to take off the handguard, which would allow you to remove the gas tube and loosen the barrel nut, then separate the barrel assembly from the upper itself. Not trying to convince that this is the right path, but post up pictures if you would consider.
Truly, though, a good factory upper with all new components is the better option.

[maxpetros]

For the upper:
I wouldn't get the gunfighter comp pinned, it will be a PITA to clean and isn't a particularly good comp to begin with. Get an extended A2 instead.
If you plan to get a suppressor, get a compatible muzzle device for the suppressor you intend to get.
If you plan to get a suppressor, do you also plan to go SBR? If so, might as well go shorter than 14.5", and forget the pin and weld so you don't have to worry about muzzle device/suppressor compatibility. Go pistol in the mean time.
Or just go straight pistol with a suppressor.

For Optics:
I would go offset RDS/Reflex over offset fixed irons. Hell, I'd go offset Magpul Pro BUIS before I go fixed offset BUIS.
Eotech plus fixed front and folding rear sights I have no issue with.
You're going to have to decide for yourself what optic setup works best for you between LPVO or RDS though.

For at least the foreseeable future I don't intend to get a suppressor or SBR this rifle. I figure by the time that rolls around I'll also be looking to add at least a couple more builds to my collection. As of now I can't do those things so I won't set this rifle up with that in mind.

As far as optics go, I do find myself inclined to go the LPVO route. I've had the trijicon for a while now and put a lot of rounds down range with it. Feel very comfortable and I like that I can easily go from close range to repeatedly hitting a 1/3rd IPSC target at 350 yards (farthest I've shot it).

For an iron sight set up with the LPVO, I initially went with a repeatable QD mount and standard flip up MBUS pro. Figured worse case my optic goes down, its 10 seconds to tear it off and be up an running. I'll nix the idea of offset irons but an offset RDS is definitely a viable option as well.

I'm certainly open to advice from my experienced users. Like you said, I don't think I could go wrong with something like am eotech and fixed front irons.




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[maxpetros]

I never see a downside to having a spare complete upper.

That said, I imagine there is a way to take off the handguard, which would allow you to remove the gas tube and loosen the barrel nut, then separate the barrel assembly from the upper itself. Not trying to convince that this is the right path, but post up pictures if you would consider.
Truly, though, a good factory upper with all new components is the better option.You can pull the handguard and slide it over the brake. Once its off, sig pinned the gas block so I'm not sure how the barrel nut can come off

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[TMS951]

You say you might want to use it as an actual duty rifle. If that is the case I’d make sure the rifle is approved by the department you work for/want to work for.

[maxpetros]

You say you might want to use it as an actual duty rifle. If that is the case I’d make sure the rifle is approved by the department you work for/want to work for.Yes have looked into it. Some departments I'm considering do, some don't specify. The ones that do don't specify what requirements are set forth for the rifle. I figured even if it doesn't become my duty rifle, it won't hurt to set it up with that in mind.

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[maxpetros]

Starting to narrow down options.

Stuck on BCGs

Looking at the following and all seem to have equally hugh quality specs and good reputation, can get them all within ~20 bucks

Sionics

Geissele

Daniel Defense- both phosphate and chromed


Should I lean any particular direction?



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[TehLlama]

Starting to narrow down options.
...
Should I lean any particular direction?


Availability, package deals - practically anything that's quality will perform about the same.


Overall, I have some old 14.7 and 14.5" setups with pinned A2/A2X, and I'm still super-happy with the performance, ultimately what makes me like or dislike them is the furniture package (balance), optics, and overall weight.
Practically, ambi setups I'm still partial to the LAV layout (X300 in front of FSP or fixed front) for simplicity, realistically that's ideal with 1x optic - if you end up going that route, it's a full system change but worth a consider.
If going LPVO, then I've found you can save on sights (MBUS), but don't skimp on mount, ditto charging handle for those setups (needs to work with aforementioned optic/mount).
I have and love my Surefire stuff, but you can do better while spending less, also added flexibility.

I have and do use a couple setups with offset irons, honestly it's a nice value-added capability for a setup built around really using the zoom, a patrol rifle with legs use case where it's mostly a 1.1x setup with the ability to be a monocoluar, I find that to be a lower utility setup - again, spend more on the mount and it's a 10s operation, but I have the luxury of having uppers with aimpoints and uppers with LPVO's. The offset concept works extremely well once drilled, but I also learned you have to drill it with flashlights because any indoor/outdoor or range delta situation, running the light with irons becomes a critical ability... folding can be nice, but practically I'd rather break the budget on barrel/bcg/trigger/optic, and to a lesser extent handguard/stock/buffer than worry about irons because they'll be adequate for how frequently they're used.

[maxpetros]

Availability, package deals - practically anything that's quality will perform about the same.


Overall, I have some old 14.7 and 14.5" setups with pinned A2/A2X, and I'm still super-happy with the performance, ultimately what makes me like or dislike them is the furniture package (balance), optics, and overall weight.
Practically, ambi setups I'm still partial to the LAV layout (X300 in front of FSP or fixed front) for simplicity, realistically that's ideal with 1x optic - if you end up going that route, it's a full system change but worth a consider.
If going LPVO, then I've found you can save on sights (MBUS), but don't skimp on mount, ditto charging handle for those setups (needs to work with aforementioned optic/mount).
I have and love my Surefire stuff, but you can do better while spending less, also added flexibility.

I have and do use a couple setups with offset irons, honestly it's a nice value-added capability for a setup built around really using the zoom, a patrol rifle with legs use case where it's mostly a 1.1x setup with the ability to be a monocoluar, I find that to be a lower utility setup - again, spend more on the mount and it's a 10s operation, but I have the luxury of having uppers with aimpoints and uppers with LPVO's. The offset concept works extremely well once drilled, but I also learned you have to drill it with flashlights because any indoor/outdoor or range delta situation, running the light with irons becomes a critical ability... folding can be nice, but practically I'd rather break the budget on barrel/bcg/trigger/optic, and to a lesser extent handguard/stock/buffer than worry about irons because they'll be adequate for how frequently they're used.

Thanks for the response!
Definitely trying to consider overall weight as I've already seen how quickly you can turn a rifle into a pig with poor accessory choices. A lot of experience in the backpacking world and I'm a big proponent of not cutting weight at a performance detriment but obviously lighter gear is nice if you don't sacrifice too much.

I have experimented with my bobro QD mount and I'm entirely pleased with the return to zero capabilities. That could definitely open up the ability to have another quality red dot on a repeatable QD. Could be a sound investment for the time being and then that would find itself a dedicated upper down the road.

Definitely don't plan on skimping component wise for this build. I plan on only using products with a solid track record for reliability and a quality company behind it. I want to do it right from the ground up and not regret something in order to save a couple hundred bucks.


Still looking around at BCGs but from everything I can dig up on the forums I think the sionics is the way to go.

Only other item im really undecided on at the moment is a light system. The recommendation for the OWL definitely piqued my interest, and with their military discount its honestly the most cost effective option. I'm just questioning its role in a build like this. Seems like a considerable amount of bulk and weight (worth it for durability) for such a limited platform. Meaning there's less flexibility and mounting options than a scout type light set up. That leads me to thinking something from arisaka or modlite might serve me well, and be more adaptable while being lighter weight.

Does that sound like a solid choice?

As of now, this is the complete list

Sig M400 lower

Sig 2 stage match trigger

Magpul CTR stock

BCM 14.5 upper- thinking their enhanced mid weight barrel profile. Makes more sense than government or the ELW profile at a smidge more weight.

BCM QRF-12 handguard- I know, M-LOK is the future but there's some thought behind this. Picatinny isn't going to dissappear, I honestly like the slighter thicker handguard, it takes longer to heat up, and in theory it's more durable. Its a 4 ounce penalty of the MCMR but I think its worthwhile.

Muzzle device- TBD

Sionics BCG

Trijicon accupower in bobro QD mount

Magpul MBUS pro

Arisaka or modlite 600 style with pressure pad

Missing anything?

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[Disciple]

Practically, ambi setups I'm still partial to the LAV layout (X300 in front of FSP or fixed front) for simplicity, realistically that's ideal with 1x optic - if you end up going that route, it's a full system change but worth a consider.

Is there a thread about this?