View Full Version : Consolidation: Light 308 AR or 6.5CM Ruger American Predator
I have a lightweight, nice 308 AR I built. It works.
If I sell it, I could pick up a nice bolt gun and fairly nice glass.
I’m not an operator, and I live in the suburbs near enough to country (and actively in market for land). I wanted something lightweight that shoots bigger bullets...just because. In the future, I do want to have something that will allow hunting.
Practically speaking, assuming a solid collection of 11.5-16” 5.56mm rifles for any sort of HD/extended HD situation, which of the title options would provide the best range of capabilities considering the platform and ammo types?
Since I already have a 308 AR, I don’t think I would sell/trade for a bolt gun in the same caliber.
Here to learn.
My answer is that......it depends.
The three main potential benefits of a bolt gun over a semi-auto are lower price, accuracy, and reliability.
If the acquisition of the bolt gun and glass equals the value of the AR, then price doesn't really matter.
If the 308 AR is accurate enough, then the potential increase in accuracy of a bolt gun doesn't really matter.
If the 308 AR is completely reliable, then a completely reliable bolt gun isn't an improvement.
I personally see little benefit of the 6.5 Creedmoor over the 308 Winchester inside of 500 yards. If you would use the full potential of the Creedmoor at long range, then that makes the bolt gun option more favorable.
The Ruger Anerican Predator is cheap enough that it shouldn't bee too difficult to pick one up one sale at some point, while keeping the AR that you already own. You'd probably end up spending more on glass than on the rifle.
My answer is that......it depends.
The three main potential benefits of a bolt gun over a semi-auto are lower price, accuracy, and reliability.
If the acquisition of the bolt gun and glass equals the value of the AR, then price doesn't really matter.
If the 308 AR is accurate enough, then the potential increase in accuracy of a bolt gun doesn't really matter.
If the 308 AR is completely reliable, then a completely reliable bolt gun isn't an improvement.
I personally see little benefit of the 6.5 Creedmoor over the 308 Winchester inside of 500 yards. If you would use the full potential of the Creedmoor at long range, then that makes the bolt gun option more favorable.
The Ruger Anerican Predator is cheap enough that it shouldn't bee too difficult to pick one up one sale at some point, while keeping the AR that you already own. You'd probably end up spending more on glass than on the rifle.
Excellent post. I'd add one thing to the listed bolt gun advantages: weight for the $$$. Now if you have a lot of $$$ to spend, you can create a LW, accurate .308 AR. But if trying to keep rifle cost under $1K, you can definitely configure a bolt gun that is lighter, AND more accurate, than an AR in the same caliber that costs under $1K.
Also for your bolt gun, if you could step up a few $$ to a Tikka, they're a better rifle than the Ruger, action is incredibly smooth, trigger can be adjusted as low as 2 lbs and you won't have to upgrade it. Here's a blued (https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3x-Lite-65-Creedmoor-Synthetic-JRTXE382.aspx)one for $589 at Eurooptic, or stainless (https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3x-Lite-65-Creedmoor-Stainless-Steel-JRTXB382.aspx)for $798.
I’d offer “both”. (I know)
Guy needs a .308 AR for the rapid follow up shot(s) as well as a light(er) weight precision/hunt gun.
Also agree with Tikka over Ruger. Similar price, pretty big diff in quality.
I'll 3rd the Tikka recommendation. I've not shot one, but have handled a few in gun shops. When I'm ready to buy another bolt gun, it'll probably be a Tikka.
PracticalRifleman
08-29-20, 14:20
What do you intend to hunt? If it’s whitetail deer or smaller, your 16” 5.56 AR is going to be just fine with quality ammo, assuming it is legal where you intend to hunt. I kill large bucks every year with 5.56.
Most “nice” bolt actions are expensive only because they maker charges what they do. Compare a $900 Browning to a $500 Tikka, what are you paying for? Cerakote? Colorful stock?
My solution is a $500 Tikka T3X Lite in .308 with a 3.5-10x VX3i or even a used Zeiss Conquest. It’ll be under 7 lbs set-up ready to go.
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It doesn’t seem like you hunt now, make sure an AR of semi auto rifle is legal to hunt with where you live. In PA a semi auto rifle is not a legal rifle to hunt with.
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It doesn’t seem like you hunt now, make sure an AR of semi auto rifle is legal to hunt with where you live. In PA a semi auto rifle is not a legal rifle to hunt with.
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Yep, and in WA state, for mid-sized game like deer, we have to use at least 6mm. No 5.56 deer hunting here, although I'd love to if I could. Probably wouldn't have bothered with 6.5 Grendel if I could hunt with 5.56 here.
I am reading and appreciate the comments.
Regarding legality for deer season: .243/6mm minimum cartridge and no restriction on semi-auto (though limit of 10 rds in hand)
3.5-10x VX3i or even a used Zeiss Conquest.
Pardon my ignorance, but is there a noticeable difference between the 3-9x VX-R Patrol? Very much still learning about optics. However, I do have one of these, and like it, and have been considering a second one with the duplex reticle (window closing on opportunity to grab for about $300). Alternative would be a refurbished Vortex PST II 3-15 for $625.
Edit to add: I note the Ruger American Predator due to the shorter barrel option and some outstanding results I’ve seen online, considering the price. There are placed the 6.5CM can be had for under $400, and then I could add fairly nice glass for still less than I have in the AR alone.
Hammer_Man
08-29-20, 15:28
I am reading and appreciate the comments.
Regarding legality for deer season: .243/6mm minimum cartridge and no restriction on semi-auto (though limit of 10 rds in hand)
Do you have any reservations about using your AR308 as a hunting rig? If you do, perhaps you could list those out so we can better understand your concerns.
How invested are you in 308 as a cartridge? (for example I have a bunch of surplus 762, otherwise I would have made the switch to 6.5 CM already).
Do you have any reservations about using your AR308 as a hunting rig? If you do, perhaps you could list those out so we can better understand your concerns.
How invested are you in 308 as a cartridge? (for example I have a bunch of surplus 762, otherwise I would have made the switch to 6.5 CM already).
No reservations at all. As I have it set up, it is right about 7.6 lbs without the sights on it, so not like it is a huge burden.
Investing... I have less than 300 rounds of 308 and 7.62x51. I consider that nil. The rifle I put together as a project, and I bought enough ammo to ensure function.
PracticalRifleman
08-29-20, 15:52
Pardon my ignorance, but is there a noticeable difference between the 3-9x VX-R Patrol? Very much still learning about optics. However, I do have one of these, and like it, and have been considering a second one with the duplex reticle (window closing on opportunity to grab for about $300). Alternative would be a refurbished Vortex PST II 3-15 for $625.
Edit to add: I note the Ruger American Predator due to the shorter barrel option and some outstanding results I’ve seen online, considering the price. There are placed the 6.5CM can be had for under $400, and then I could add fairly nice glass for still less than I have in the AR alone.
The Patrol is a nice little scope. They are very similar. From what I’ve noticed, the resolution and clarity of the VX3i may be a bit better. They were running sales on them for $300 back in December and you can fine them second hand on sites like “24 hour campfire” from time to time as well.
The illumination isn’t really necessary for a second focal plane hunting optic. If going FFP, I’d call it a must.
Things like the PST are nice but they are heavy and unnecessary for a hunting rifle. In fact, some features can be detrimental such as exposed target turrets, thin reticle on lower magnification settings and so on. If you’re “long range hunting” then sure. But if you’re hunting mostly woods and agricultural fields in the Midwest, it’s likely overkill. Most zero for a max PBR and call it a day on anything out to 400 yards with modern hunting cartridges.
I know the feature list looks nice on the Ruger but go look at a Tikka before you pull the trigger. Short barrels will hamstring the 6.5. I had a 20” 6.5 and a 22” .308 from the same maker and the .308 ballistically matched the 6.5 as far as trajectory is concerned and had more energy.
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My VX3i is a 4.5-14, but when set to 9x, it's virtually indistinguishable from the VX-R Patrol 3-9. The VX3i does have the option for side focus, which I consider more important for a hunting optic than illumination. The VX3i may resolve a tiny bit more, but I'd need to be looking at text or using it at long range to be certain if it even exists.
I also have a PST 3-15x44 on a 308 AR, and there's no way I'd put it onto a rifle intended for hunting. The externally adjustable turets, illumination, and advanced reticles aren't used. For an inexpensive precision optic, it works damn well. My hunting bolt guns have Leupold VX3I, VX-III,, and even a couple Vari-x IIIs. They weigh a lot less, deliver clear images, have adjustable focus, and have tolerated recoil from 7mm Mags and lightweight .270 Wins without complaint.
No reservations at all. As I have it set up, it is right about 7.6 lbs without the sights on it, so not like it is a huge burden.
Investing... I have less than 300 rounds of 308 and 7.62x51. I consider that nil. The rifle I put together as a project, and I bought enough ammo to ensure function.
Since you stressed a LW build in this project, I assume weight is an issue. If this applies equally to your style of hunting (will you be lugging the rifle, sitting in a stand, etc.), then I'd do a real-world comparison.
So your rifle is 7.6 lb unscoped/unloaded. By the time you added even a lightweight optic (15 or 16oz on the low end, your Leupy, anywhere to 28oz on the high end, for something like a Vortex PST II in the 3-15x range), rings or a mount that could run anywhere from 4oz to 8oz, a loaded mag of 5rd or 10rd for hunting, and a sling, you'll add at least 1.75 lbs and prob more to that total, so your minimum carry weight is 9.35 lbs, and I'm betting more like 9.5. You could do at least 1.5, maybe 2.0 pounds better than that with a similarly scoped Tikka or Ruger. Again, if weight is still a concern.
Regarding bolt guns, .308 is supposedly way superior to 6.5CM in the barrel life department. But I would imagine the average hunter/weekend plinker would get a lot of life out of the Creedmore?
For optics with hunting, I like a 3x9 3.5x10 or something similar for deer. I usually only use no more than 4 x magnification setting when hunting. I have taken over 70 deer in PA and NJ, about 30 with a firearm and my longest shot was in the Pine barrens in NJ, 120 yds with an in-line muzzleloader. All my rifle deer in PA were less than 75 yds. What I look for most in a hunting optic is not the magnification ( YMMV in you hunt in wide open areas) but the size of the objective and the coatings on the lens that = light transmission. I can typically get 5-7 more minutes of shooting light with may VX 3.5-10 with a 50mm objective set at the smallest magnification than my buddy can with his 3-9 Weaver with I this a 38mm objective. I can see things he simply can’t.
I haven’t shot one but 5he Roger Predator has some great reviews.
I'll 3rd the Tikka recommendation. I've not shot one, but have handled a few in gun shops. When I'm ready to buy another bolt gun, it'll probably be a Tikka.
I've shot more than a few Tikka's and they are as good or better than Rem 700s and Win 70s. I had several friends who owned them and I was always impressed by how well they handled even though they weren't even set up for me. And compared to the above, the T3 is pretty handy, they kind of remind me of the old Mauser safari rifles.
I also like to standardize around common calibers that are readily available. So for me it will always be another .308.
sandsunsurf
08-30-20, 09:25
One more advantage for the bolt gun is that, for the shooter, it is much quieter when shooting suppressed. Then add that it’s lighter, cheaper, shorter and more durable, versus fast second follow up shot without breaking position.
It’s really about what your priorities are. I like the “both” answer, but there’s a reason I sold my Sig 716 and bought a Bergara in 6.5CM. The bolt gun is more pleasant to carry and shoot. And I totally drank the 6.5 Kool-Aid. It’s a great round.
I will add that I think the days of assuming a bolt gun is more accurate than a semi are over. I’ve shot some serious tack drivers that are semi-auto.
Oh and one more plus for 6.5cm is that ammo is still cheap and plentiful- almost more so than hunting/match grade .308.
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