View Full Version : V Seven "Enhanced A5 buffer" appears to have no bias spring
From https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224805 I understand that the bias spring is an important part of the A5 buffer system. I purchased a V Seven Enhanced A5 6.0oz buffer since the Vltor one was out of stock everywhere I looked, believing that this was an actual A5 buffer with an extra coating, but upon receipt I find that the weights flop back and forth like a regular buffer without a bias spring. Without the A5 features I do not see how this can honestly be marketed as an A5 buffer rather than A5 compatible therefore I feel cheated. Do I have a legitimate grievance?
Resolution
V Seven replied "We do not state we include springs" and offered nothing more.
ROG Tactical (https://www.rogtac.com) accepted my return and gave me a full refund.
I shall recommend and patronize ROG Tactical.
call_me_ski
09-04-20, 20:29
Have you asked if you could return the items?
ColtSeavers
09-04-20, 20:47
Take it apart to confirm? (Don't booger it...)
Have you asked if you could return the items?
Not yet. I did not buy direct from V Seven.
Take it apart to confirm? (Don't booger it...)
Shouldn't the presence of the spring be apparent without disassembly?
crosseyedshooter
09-05-20, 01:42
Considering that's the patented (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8296984B2/en) part of the A5 system, I'd be surprised if anyone else makes a true A5 buffer besides VLTOR.
I would contact Vseven with your concerns.
This is like the HeavyBuffers. It isn’t an A5 buffer, but is designed to work in the A5 system.
I have passed on them myself.
This is like the HeavyBuffers. It isn’t an A5 buffer, but is designed to work in the A5 system.
They informed me that they cannot use the biasing spring due to Vltor’s patent. They use some squishy bit in its place.
It’s an A5-length buffer that they market as an A5 buffer. Nick Wantland has talked about it and his willingness to license the patent, but folks are either unwilling or the terms are unfavorable because to this day only VLTOR makes real A5 buffers.
It’s an A5-length buffer that they market as an A5 buffer. Nick Wantland has talked about it and his willingness to license the patent, but folks are either unwilling or the terms are unfavorable because to this day only VLTOR makes real A5 buffers.
I shall try to get my money back.
ColtSeavers
09-05-20, 20:13
Shouldn't the presence of the spring be apparent without disassembly?
No idea. I don't use it. It's unnecessary IMO.
No idea. I don't use it. It's unnecessary IMO.
You have an authentic A5 buffer and you took out the spring? Why?
ColtSeavers
09-05-20, 21:12
You have an authentic A5 buffer and you took out the spring? Why?
My mistake, I meant the A5 system, not the bias spring specifically.
Well it will be a laugh if after all the faff I can't tell the difference.
Well it will be a laugh if after all the faff I can't tell the difference.
They work but it is the kind of improvement you will forget about doing after a couple of magazines. Yes for a new build but not worth the expense for an existing rifle IMO.
Maybe the spring is only there because it’s the only part that allowed it to be patented??
Could be, but long term A5 users felt the spring was beneficial, and logically it should make for more consistent unlocking.
The V Seven buffer has been returned and I have a VLTOR buffer on the way.
Logically that spring doesn’t do anything.
Could be, but long term A5 users felt the spring was beneficial, and logically it should make for more consistent unlocking.
The V Seven buffer has been returned and I have a VLTOR buffer on the way.
I will get on board with your logic... The spring does away with any take up slack between the weights and spacers. The mass the carrier has to get going would remain constant without slack. Would the average guy be able to feel the difference between the v7 and VLTOR buffer??? I know I probably couldn't. I got my original A5 from Vltor that shipped with the AH3 buffer. BCM was shipping their version with the AH0 buffer. I converted the 3 to a zero and cannot tell the difference on a BCM ELW upper. I suspect BCM ships with the light buffer for the same reason their gas port is larger than it has to be. 100% reliability with most any ammo.
Would the average guy be able to feel the difference between the v7 and VLTOR buffer???
Feel is not my goal. A maximally wide operating envelope is. Different uppers, ammo, users, weather, cleanliness, firing positions, etc.
The A5 is almost all about feel. Wonder why all the manufacturers keep drilling bigger and bigger gas ports?? Because people keep ‘tuning’ their operating window with a buncha special heavy nonsense and then they whine all over the Internet that their tier 1 upper won’t run on their dipshit lower with Wolf ammo.
The little biasing spring doesn’t do anything because while the bullet is traveling down the barrel, recoil is happening. And that sets the weights to the front of the buffer. Every time.
Want the gun to run? Get a proper barrel with a proper gas port and chamber. Use proper 5.56 ammo. It will run with literally any buffer from a 3.0 oz carbine to an A5H3 and everything in-between because when the gun is built right, outside of extremes like 10.3” suppressed full-auto, the buffer really doesn’t matter.
The little biasing spring doesn’t do anything because while the bullet is traveling down the barrel, recoil is happening. And that sets the weights to the front of the buffer. Every time.
High speed video shows that recoil is minimal (i.e. less than the buffer weight travel) before the carrier starts moving.
From a rigid fixture or a shoulder?
The bullet is long gone from the barrel before the carrier starts to move.
The idea of the sliding weights is to retard the second rearward movement of the carrier.
From a rigid fixture or a shoulder?
I have no idea. Point made. The rifle does recoil in these videos so it's not completely clamped in place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7l6KlNDJg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=575Q0O41u5s
...Want the gun to run? Get a proper barrel with a proper gas port and chamber. Use proper 5.56 ammo.
If more people realized this (and used quality springs) posts about problems with ARs would evaporate.
It will run with literally any buffer from a 3.0 oz carbine to an A5H3 and everything in-between because when the gun is built right, outside of extremes like 10.3” suppressed full-auto, the buffer really doesn’t matter.
However, buffer weight does matter, especially with barrels that are 16 inches or less and carbine gas systems. Recoil is noticeably softer with the heavier buffers and quite sharp with the carbine buffer. Carbine buffers are just too light.
20 inch uppers with rifle gas systems soft shooters, even with a carbine buffer but mine has been amazing with an A5 RE assembly
I pulled the spring out of one of my VLTOR buffers years back. I thought (at that time) it served no functional purpose. That said, I don't know which one and can't tell any difference.
You can tell if the buffer is out of the gun and you shake it... the weights will freely rattle a bit.
All that said. No way would I be buying buffers from these goober companies. Shit. One of the Heavy Buffers was nothing but a chunk of steel with the delron tip. Bolt bounces like a ping pong ball. Um... a hunk of metal is NOT a buffer.
these goober companies.
Do you put V Seven in that category?
Do you put V Seven in that category?
No idea. Never heard of them. But I generally don't buy from unknown companies unless they're fairly well vetted. With buffers, I've seen everything from Spikes powder filled crap to Heavybuffers paper weights.
Definitely worth waiting for VLTOR or Bravo to get their buffers back in stock.
Definitely worth waiting for VLTOR or Bravo to get their buffers back in stock.
Already taken care of. OrbitalE mercifully found a VLTOR buffer for me.
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