View Full Version : A2 style fixed stock, disadvantages?
Are there any real disadvantages to running a fixed stock. I mean from a tactical stand point. I am just curious because going to the range I always just put it on the same set length if its not already there. I can't see adjusting it in the fly in a gun fight.
ColtSeavers
09-04-20, 20:50
Are there any real disadvantages to running a fixed stock. I mean from a tactical stand point. I am just curious because going to the range I always just put it on the same set length if its not already there. I can't see adjusting it in the fly in a gun fight.
No, there are no downsides, other than a lack of adjustment.
I’ve wondered the same thing & like you at the range or in class I don’t adjust it.
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I find an A1 length stock a bit clumsy to use with a plate carrier. An A2 would be even more so.
That being said, for normal use I like a fixed stock AR quite a bit. Over the years I have used fixed A1 length stocks numerous times on carbines and midlength ARs and the configuration handles very well in most situations.
I find an A1 length stock a bit clumsy to use with a plate carrier. An A2 would be even more so.
That being said, for normal use I like a fixed stock AR quite a bit. Over the years I have used fixed A1 length stocks numerous times on carbines and midlength ARs and the configuration handles very well in most situations.
Good input I didn't think of this, which is why I started the thread. Keep the info coming.
ColtSeavers
09-04-20, 21:09
ACE ARFX-E with 1" stock extender and no butt pad = ~8.25" length from end plate and is just awesome for squared up shooting.
Magpul Fixed Carbine stock = ~9.0625" length from end plate, can accomodate the A5 system and is about the perfect jack of all trades length.
ACE ARFX without butt pad = ~9.875" from endplate and is awesome for longer eye relief scopes and people with longer arms.
Averageman
09-04-20, 21:13
The Last lower I put together has an A2 stock. It works for me.
More or less just wandering about disadvantages. For my go to rifle one thing I'll say is if the wife needs to pick it up her length does not match mine considering she's so small. But what about shooting, prone or going in and out of buildings?
ColtSeavers
09-04-20, 22:21
More or less just wandering about disadvantages.
Already answered.
For my go to rifle one thing I'll say is if the wife needs to pick it up her length does not match mine considering she's so small.
Thought it was your go to rifle? Where's hers?
But what about shooting, prone or going in and out of buildings?
Shooting prone is the same as shooting standing, square up or blade as needed. How often do you and the wife clear buildings?
More or less just wandering about disadvantages. For my go to rifle one thing I'll say is if the wife needs to pick it up her length does not match mine considering she's so small. But what about shooting, prone or going in and out of buildings?
IMHO the inability to adjust LOP for different shooters is a serious disadvantage for the fixed stock. If you are the only shooter for a rifle, it is still advantageous to adjust for different clothing, body armor, etc. With the trend to LPVO and the limited eye relief that comes with them, the fixed stock is even less attractive.
I can get by with an A1 length stock for about any use and ran an M16A2 with body armor/plates, but it is not optimal.
Andy
It can be harder to mount a sling.
Other than the A2 being horrifically too long for anyone not well over six feet tall or just target shooting...
In and out of vehicles.
Heavy winter coat.
Shooting while moving.
IMHO the inability to adjust LOP for different shooters is a serious disadvantage for the fixed stock. If you are the only shooter for a rifle, it is still advantageous to adjust for different clothing, body armor, etc. With the trend to LPVO and the limited eye relief that comes with them, the fixed stock is even less attractive.
This is why despite my fondness for a fixed stock carbine, because as I said, I really do like the handling of that setup, I ended up going back to adjustable stock on my “house carbine” - namely the body armor issue, and the fact that even an A1 is too long for my GF to use comfortably if she had to (Although she has no interest in shooting despite my repeated encouragement and is thus going to be pretty inept with the gun regardless of stock type, but why add LOP to the pile of problems she’s going to have?)
As far as going in and out of buildings or moving through your home, barrel length is going to matter a lot more than stock length most of the time.
MikhailBarracuda91
09-05-20, 07:42
I really wish someone would make another stock like the old Colt CS stock. It was the same dimensions as an A1 but made of the same materials as the A2 (and had the trap door)
I can't remember the name but there's another fixed stock that looks just like an A1 but it's actually a little shorter. It has a trap door and I think it mounts onto a carbine RE
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I agree with what some others have expressed. A fixed stock is fine but the A2 is too long. An A1 without the trap door butt is a pretty good length and smooth in use.
When the A2 buttstock was introduced by the USMC, the Army didn't like it either. Some even thought the A1-length stock was a bit long for small-statured individuals.
Already answered.
Thought it was your go to rifle? Where's hers?
Shooting prone is the same as shooting standing, square up or blade as needed. How often do you and the wife clear buildings?
My wife never but I have a paintball rifle setup exactly like my go to rifle minus the suppressor. So I go larping on the paintball field clearing rooms but thanks to covid its been a year or so and I don't recall where I set my stock on that gun. I also run around with a chest rig that has a mock plate. Anyway, I saw a fixed stock and thought that looks like where I run my gun and I'd never have to adjust it. So I wondered what the disadvantages are. I did read something like the army chose the a2 style sock originally and later realized that stock was chosen not considering body armor or winter coats. They also seemed to be clumsy for people that are not on the taller side as others have stated.
I really wish someone would make another stock like the old Colt CS stock. It was the same dimensions as an A1 but made of the same materials as the A2 (and had the trap door)
I can't remember the name but there's another fixed stock that looks just like an A1 but it's actually a little shorter. It has a trap door and I think it mounts onto a carbine RE
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RRA Entry Stock
Sully Stock
The Sully slides over a carbine length tube (like the A1/A2 stocks). I think the Entry does also.
My Sully stock is very, very heavy. It’s pretty, well made, etc etc, but HEAVY for what it is. If I ever think I’m going to need to buttstroke (that sounds wrong) someone, that’s the stock for it.
It can be harder to mount a sling.
This!
Other than the A2 being horrifically too long for anyone not well over six feet tall or just target shooting...
In and out of vehicles.
Heavy winter coat.
Shooting while moving.
And this! A2 is too much for me. I do like the A1.
RRA Entry Stock
Sully Stock
The Sully slides over a carbine length tube (like the A1/A2 stocks). I think the Entry does also.
My Sully stock is very, very heavy. It’s pretty, well made, etc etc, but HEAVY for what it is. If I ever think I’m going to need to buttstroke (that sounds wrong) someone, that’s the stock for it.
I haven’t tried the Sully Stock but the RRA is just about the length of a totally collapsed adjustable stock which is too short for my tastes.
Then there is this from, IIRC Thailand.
Looks to be a heavily modded slick side M16 - like a 604 or something- with a barrel that looks slightly longer than 11.5”, so maybe 12”-12.5”, probably locally produced carbine handguards and a buttstock that has been noticeably shortened but not quite as short as the RRA entry stock
https://i.imgur.com/mci9ZWO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bVzA3Vg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OKyf3Mb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0eEEKmV.jpg
I actually like it quite a bit.
I actually like it quite a bit.
I would agree on being intrigued.
Ultimately, though, I don’t foresee running a fixed stock again until it is used as a “feature” and it is my only option.
I haven’t tried the Sully Stock but the RRA is just about the length of a totally collapsed adjustable stock which is too short for my tastes.
Then there is this from, IIRC Thailand.
Looks to be a heavily modded slick side M16 - like a 604 or something- with a barrel that looks slightly longer than 11.5”, so maybe 12”-12.5”, probably locally produced carbine handguards and a buttstock that has been noticeably shortened but not quite as short as the RRA entry stock
I actually like it quite a bit.
Might be hard to aim the rifle with a sling mounted over the rear sight.
MikhailBarracuda91
09-05-20, 19:21
RRA Entry Stock
Sully Stock
The Sully slides over a carbine length tube (like the A1/A2 stocks). I think the Entry does also.
My Sully stock is very, very heavy. It’s pretty, well made, etc etc, but HEAVY for what it is. If I ever think I’m going to need to buttstroke (that sounds wrong) someone, that’s the stock for it.Hey thanks man
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ColtSeavers
09-05-20, 20:01
The Sully stock is like 16 ounces IIRC, it's SOLID polymer.
The Magpul fixed carbine stock fits onto a standard carbine (or A5) receiver extension, locks on, and also allows the use of endplates (like the ASAP for example).
The ARFX-E and RRA Entry stocks slide over a csrbinr length 'rifle' receiver extension.
The ARFX uses a standard rifle receiver extension.
Might be hard to aim the rifle with a sling mounted over the rear sight.
Yeah I really couldn’t tell you what the thought process behind that is. But I think the configuration of the gun is pretty neat.
ColtSeavers
09-05-20, 20:05
My wife never but I have a paintball rifle setup exactly like my go to rifle minus the suppressor. So I go larping on the paintball field clearing rooms but thanks to covid its been a year or so and I don't recall where I set my stock on that gun. I also run around with a chest rig that has a mock plate. Anyway, I saw a fixed stock and thought that looks like where I run my gun and I'd never have to adjust it. So I wondered what the disadvantages are. I did read something like the army chose the a2 style sock originally and later realized that stock was chosen not considering body armor or winter coats. They also seemed to be clumsy for people that are not on the taller side as others have stated.
The A2 stock sucks. Period. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Go with about any of the other options given here EXCEPT the RRA Entry stock, the one I got was janky crap (couldn't accept metal butt pad and trap door, did not fill anti rotation slot so it rotated, flexxed and I broke it). It was also the exact opposite problem off the A2, waaay too short.
I highly recommend the Magpul Fixed Carbine stock.
If it fits you there’s nothing wrong with a fixed stock, in fact I prefer them. I’m 6’5” and have a magpul moe rifle stock on my 6920. Absolutely love it. No problem with sling attachment and you get to run a rifle buffer and spring. Better for me than the collapsible ones, and I’m the only one shooting the gun. My Body armor / plate carrier days are over anyway.
I highly recommend the Magpul Fixed Carbine stock.
That's a bomb proof stock right there. Good length with option to go a little longer with a different butt pad.
12.2” length of pull for the MOE fixed...
Anyone know what position that would equate to with an M4 waffle on standard carbine extension?
ColtSeavers
09-06-20, 12:45
12.2” length of pull for the MOE fixed...
Anyone know what position that would equate to with an M4 waffle on standard carbine extension?
Roughly just over position 4 I believe.
Roughly just over position 4 I believe.
Thanks.
Also, for a reference point:
The Sully stock with longer baseplate (really just an extension that you swap out), including hardware and receiver extension, is 24.7oz.
I’m definitely keeping for “in case” laws, but all my guns are A5 at this point.
ColtSeavers
09-06-20, 13:01
Thanks.
Also, for a reference point:
The Sully stock with longer baseplate (really just an extension that you swap out), including hardware and receiver extension, is 24.7oz.
I’m definitely keeping for “in case” laws, but all my guns are A5 at this point.
This thread seems to confirm my measurement as well.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?206128-Length-of-Pull-on-6-Position-Stock
Yeah, that sully stock is a beast.
The Magpul Fixed will fit on your A5 receiver extensions. I'd just unload the sully and use the money to get a couple magpul fixed stocks at no extra cost if not for a profit, if it were me.
The FCS can also be pinned at about an inch longer than factory with a little drilling.
That's a bomb proof stock right there. Good length with option to go a little longer with a different butt pad.
For fixed stocks I lean towards the A1. Maybe because it's what I carried for four years as an Army grunt (yeah, I'm an old[er] bastard!), or maybe because the A2 is retarded? I only have fixed stocks on two weapons, and both are A1 stocks. The first is an A1 clone (so obviously that is the choice). The other is a 20" McKay Ent. A1 profile, 1:7 twist, chrome lined barrel with flattop upper and Aimpoint Pro, so I figured what the hell. It also wears a PRI carbon fiber FF tube on it.
All the rest are carbine stocks of one flavor or another.
MikhailBarracuda91
09-06-20, 19:11
Thanks.
Also, for a reference point:
The Sully stock with longer baseplate (really just an extension that you swap out), including hardware and receiver extension, is 24.7oz.
I’m definitely keeping for “in case” laws, but all my guns are A5 at this point.At some point on my BFH mid 16" I might swap my carbine RE out for a rifle one and run a Sully stock. Who knows maybe I'll ditch the red dot for a ta-33 while I'm at it lol.
I've played with that idea for a while.
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lordmorgul
09-07-20, 12:52
I’m a fan of the Survivor Systems stocks with adjustable length of pull fixed options, the Option Zero, the Professional MCS and Professional adjustable, I have one of each.
Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders!
Might be hard to aim the rifle with a sling mounted over the rear sight.
I don't think it matters since he wasn't issued a magazine anyway.
Perhaps I'm mistaken but based off my experience it looks like the weapon was probably just pulled from the armory. We often stow slings on our M4s wrapped around the weapon to prevent it from getting tangled on the rack. Weapon also appears to be in "rack safe", given that its off safe with no magazine, so the weapon can be stored with the hammer down.
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I actually have a gun with the A2, I realized. It's a BCM 14.5 middy with an ACOG and a suppressor. It works on that set up because I can back the COG an extra slot in the pic rail and run it just fine.
When the A2 buttstock was introduced by the USMC, the Army didn't like it either. Some even thought the A1-length stock was a bit long for small-statured individuals.
Mentioned in this:
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a168577.pdf
These usually get good reviews, except for the buttplate that can be replaced by an original.
https://www.cavmfg.com/C1-Buttstock-C1.htm
These usually get good reviews, except for the buttplate that can be replaced by an original.
https://www.cavmfg.com/C1-Buttstock-C1.htm
I ran the Cavarms stock for a little bit. It's ok for a light duty application, but nowhere near the strength of a military stock.
I ran the Cavarms stock for a little bit. It's ok for a light duty application, but nowhere near the strength of a military stock.
I’m using the Brownells repro A1 stocks (Actually more of a “Type D” stock with no trapdoor) on a couple of guns just because I prefer the slightly shorter LOP vs the A2. The Brownells stocks feel pretty chintzy compared to an actual Type D or E stock, but at the current time I’m trying to preserve my pile of authentic retro furniture and use the repro stuff on the guns that get used regularly.
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