View Full Version : Question about Thunder Ranch rifles.
Straight Shooter
09-09-20, 19:54
Im probably committing blasphemy here, so please forgive my ignorance.
What is the purpose of the mag well cut outs on the Clint Smith designed AR's?
I cannot for the life of me understand why you'd want to remove material from that area.
Wouldnt it/does it allow for debris to enter into the magwell? What is its stated purpose?
IF its "weight savings"...how much weight could that actually save, at the cost of allowing debris
and possibly weakening the lower?
Does it, in fact, weaken the lower?
These are just questions Ive had and I know Clint and many here know more than I, which is why Im asking.
crosseyedshooter
09-09-20, 20:09
http://youtu.be/_71ZJTT-bvs?t=220
Jump to 3:40 to hear it from the horse's mouth.
Straight Shooter
09-09-20, 20:23
THANKS for that. Im glad to hear this explanation.
Not something I want or need personally, but now I know Clints reason.
Someone already shared the video, but to summarize:
“These guys came to me and wanted to do a branded rifle. The only thing I really cared about was getting rid of the ********** forward assist, but they wanted more, so I was like, remove this material that isn’t important anyways, and girls can poke their fingers up in there for malfunctions and stuff.”
Absolutely no criticism of Clint Smith is intended by that. It’s just my takeaway.
TexasAggie2005
09-10-20, 08:01
At least that's better than the first iteration from 2017...
https://i.imgur.com/m1f7jKY.png
Straight Shooter
09-10-20, 08:13
At least that's better than the first iteration from 2017...
https://i.imgur.com/m1f7jKY.png
Is that REAL...or just a made up meme?
Man, if THAT atrocitiy is real..I just lost some repsect for the man. No way.
TexasAggie2005
09-10-20, 08:31
Is that REAL...or just a made up meme?
Man, if THAT atrocitiy is real..I just lost some repsect for the man. No way.
That is not my screenshot, but yes, that was real.
Straight Shooter
09-10-20, 08:37
That is not my screenshot, but yes, that was real.
Just...damn.
TexasAggie2005
09-10-20, 08:44
Just...damn.
Yeah...
Here is an older thread with some comments about it. All the YouTube videos with Clint talking about it have been deleted from his channel.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?203710-Thunder-Ranch-Standard-Rifle
An older Facebook post about it.
https://www.facebook.com/120548841302589/posts/the-marksman-rifle-using-clints-knowledge-of-what-does-and-does-not-need-to-be-o/1721865627837561/
Straight Shooter
09-10-20, 09:02
Yeah...
Here is an older thread with some comments about it. All the YouTube videos with Clint talking about it have been deleted from his channel.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?203710-Thunder-Ranch-Standard-Rifle
An older Facebook post about it.
https://www.facebook.com/120548841302589/posts/the-marksman-rifle-using-clints-knowledge-of-what-does-and-does-not-need-to-be-o/1721865627837561/
Appreciate that.
Thinking of "branded" guns- Ive yet to find one that suited me, or didnt need additional something else.
Is that REAL...or just a made up meme?
Man, if THAT atrocitiy is real..I just lost some repsect for the man. No way.
From what I can recall(in addition to the already explained mag well) the short forearm was due to watching students move their hands closer and closer to the receiver as the day went along and to cut down on weight shoved out front.
I have switched a 15" rail to a 13" for roughly the same reason. That may look odd, but it wouldn't be front heavy.
AwaySooner
09-10-20, 15:40
From what I can recall(in addition to the already explained mag well) the short forearm was due to watching students move their hands closer and closer to the receiver as the day went along and to cut down on weight shoved out front.
I have switched a 15" rail to a 13" for roughly the same reason. That may look odd, but it wouldn't be front heavy.
Easy fix with a Arisaka indexer.
99cobra2881
09-10-20, 19:09
How much radiant heat does an aluminum hand stop transfer to the shooters hand during prolonged intense firing?
The Arisaka indexers look nice but I keep thinking the magpul polymer hand stop would be better.
How much radiant heat does an aluminum hand stop transfer to the shooters hand during prolonged intense firing?
The Arisaka indexers look nice but I keep thinking the magpul polymer hand stop would be better.
I use the short nub that comes in the Magpul handstop kit.
How much radiant heat does an aluminum hand stop transfer to the shooters hand during prolonged intense firing?
The Arisaka indexers look nice but I keep thinking the magpul polymer hand stop would be better.
My FF rails get hot enough the handstop would be a non-issue.
Andy
Dr. Bullseye
09-11-20, 11:58
I use the Arisaka finger stop (never heard it called an indexer before) on the mil spec handguard. Nothing to do with heat, it just gives me a tiny bit more leverage pulling back. The handguard is the carbine, tapered version with dual heat shields. The finger stop fits between the ring and little finger. Works great, used M-lok mounting hardware on one of those lower vent holes.
Everyone respects Clint and his school. Trashing the forward assist certainly has merit. I have never used it. But don't you think the real function of this gun is its ability to scoop up huge royalty checks for Clint?
AwaySooner
09-11-20, 13:28
The indexer is new, it’s flatter than the finger stop so more comfortable between fingers. I have swapped out vertical grips for them as I started to adopt more C-clamp style of shooting in competition.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I know he used to recommend ONLY Noveske rifles (It was 2011 when I contacted him not sure when he started or quit).
The students moving their hand back wasn't a slippage or heat issue, but a fatigue issue. Mindset was the hand ends up closer to the receiver anyway and if the weight isn't out front acting as leverage then some fatigue can be delayed.
Whether agreed with or not, there was a thought process involved.
The rifle in the pic above was their precision rifle. Clint would set it up with a long legged atlas bipod, with bipod canted forward 45* off a bench. He wanted a carbine gas 20” barrel. He shot it alongside us on the AR long range course. I think the price was over double what it should have been.
They sold other branded rifles alongside this with longer handguard that better matched the length of barrel for carbine and HD use.
The Thunder Ranch Noveske and ERA3 Clint signature were similar, with the long handguard, no forward assist, precision barrel. I don’t think the pic above is anywhere near the class of these last two, though it was priced as such.
Glock9mm1990
09-14-20, 07:59
The rifle in the pic above was their precision rifle. Clint would set it up with a long legged atlas bipod, with bipod canted forward 45* off a bench. He wanted a carbine gas 20” barrel. He shot it alongside us on the AR long range course. I think the price was over double what it should have been.
They sold other branded rifles alongside this with longer handguard that better matched the length of barrel for carbine and HD use.
The Thunder Ranch Noveske and ERA3 Clint signature were similar, with the long handguard, no forward assist, precision barrel. I don’t think the pic above is anywhere near the class of these last two, though it was priced as such.
Why would he want a carbine gas 20” barrel?
Why would he want a carbine gas 20” barrel?
Reliability is what I heard. I questioned it too.
Glock9mm1990
09-14-20, 08:51
Reliability is what I heard. I questioned it too.
But isn’t the 20” rifle length gas the most reliable?
I have heard the shorter the gas, the less it affects barrel harmonics. Hard to believe reliability increases with carbine gas and 20" barrel.
Either way, not a choice most would make.
Andy
Mysteryman
09-14-20, 10:41
I have heard the shorter the gas, the less it affects barrel harmonics. Hard to believe reliability increases with carbine gas and 20" barrel.
Either way, not a choice most would make.
Andy
With a freefloat forend the barrel harmonics are consistent and unaffected. No need for the carbine gas, literally dead centre of the barrel.
With a freefloat forend the barrel harmonics are consistent and unaffected. No need for the carbine gas, literally dead centre of the barrel.
I absolutely agree there is no need for the carbine gas on a 20" barrel (or a lot of barrel lengths).
I should note that I have read the theory of shorter gas system yielding accuracy, I am not suggesting the theory is correct/it's not my theory. If it was valid, repeatable, and measurable, more people would be doing it.
Andy
Mysteryman
09-20-20, 15:13
I absolutely agree there is no need for the carbine gas on a 20" barrel (or a lot of barrel lengths).
I should note that I have read the theory of shorter gas system yielding accuracy, I am not suggesting the theory is correct/it's not my theory. If it was valid, repeatable, and measurable, more people would be doing it.
Andy
Agreed.
I think it is important to remember that at the end of the day, its about selling guns. Clint having a firearm that is the same as everyone elses means that it doesn't get sold. Clint having a weapon that is unique (in a very difficult market), means that he is attracting more people than he otherwise would have.
Mysteryman
09-21-20, 21:26
I think it is important to remember that at the end of the day, its about selling guns. Clint having a firearm that is the same as everyone elses means that it doesn't get sold. Clint having a weapon that is unique (in a very difficult market), means that he is attracting more people than he otherwise would have.
Selling something with your name on it, that makes absolutely zero sense as far as design goes, just to make a buck, is morally bankrupt.
nyc_paramedic
09-27-20, 21:21
Someone already shared the video, but to summarize:
“These guys came to me and wanted to do a branded rifle. The only thing I really cared about was getting rid of the ********** forward assist, but they wanted more, so I was like, remove this material that isn’t important anyways, and girls can poke their fingers up in there for malfunctions and stuff.”
Absolutely no criticism of Clint Smith is intended by that. It’s just my takeaway.
The Ares/Fightlite SCR has no forward assist, and I also noticed it has a much shorter, angled mag well. Perhaps it's easier to clear malfunctions on said gun without the cut out.
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