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I have a couple BCM lowers how much benefit would I get from upgrading triggers? If so any good suggestions?
I’d suggest moving up to a Geissele trigger, its the guaranteed upgrade I do on any gun regardless of whether I build it or its factory.
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Do a search on this forum to get opinions on a variety of triggers.
You will get questions on the role of the firearm in question and if you are looking for a single stage, such as what you probably have, or a 2 stage, like the Gessele. More info would be helpful as the options are in the dozens.
Mark
Thanks for the feedback. I prefer a single stage trigger I know Geiselle has one model but out of stock everywhere. Open to other brands.
I have a couple BCM lowers how much benefit would I get from upgrading triggers? If so any good suggestions?
What do you want to do with the rifles?? I'll give you two extremes.. Both "G" triggers. The SSA is probably the most popular duty grade trigger. It is a 2 stage but a safe one. A big improvement over a standard trigger but the second stage is soft. Bill describes it as breaking like a carrot. In other words it is forgiving. The other extreme are the "E" triggers. While still 2 stage the bias between 1st and second stage is greater and they break like glass. I don't remember the numbers offhand but compare them this way. Imagine the A trigger takes 1# to reach the second stage and 3# to break the sear. Now the E trigger taking 2# reach the wall and 2# to jump it. Both are 4# triggers but the E takes half the energy to fire as the A after reaching the second stage. The A is the duty trigger and the E is the precision rifle trigger. The biggest gain when getting a "G" trigger is the consistency you don't have with many other triggers. They do the same thing every time.
Thanks for the feedback. I prefer a single stage trigger I know Geiselle has one model but out of stock everywhere. Open to other brands.
I type too slow. The "G" single stage is a game gun trigger. If you want a practical single stage look at the Wilson TTU. It is my favorite do everything trigger.
I type too slow. The "G" single stage is a game gun trigger. If you want a practical single stage look at the Wilson TTU. It is my favorite do everything trigger.
A JP Adjustable can be either depending on how it is adjusted.
The only downside is a guy has to be able to read and follow instructions. It does not just 'drop in' and everything work like magic.
Before dropping money in a new trigger, clean up the one you've got now.
Remove the FCG (Fire Control Group) from your AR and clean it with solvent or really hot water & crush soap to remove any oil, grease or preservative.
Grease the sears, the pin holes and the bottom curve of the hammer and reinstall.
Next, without the upper installed, work the trigger while watching your favorite show. You do this by cocking the hammer, then pull up on the hammer against the sear s with one hand and press the trigger with the other. Not too hard, though. You don't want to chip or round the corners of the sears. Degrease and repeat as necessary. This will smooth out the sear contact areas and get rid of the crunchentick feeling of the factory trigger. The trigger pull will be greatly improved.
Don't let the hammer slip from your fingers and bang against the lower. This will eventually damage your lower.
Another thing- if the trigger is installed dry, it doesn't matter how good the trigger is. It'll feel like a dump truck load of gravel found its way into the lower. Grease your triggers, boys & girls!
Don't let the hammer slip from your fingers and bang against the lower. This will eventually damage your lower.
Sticking a foam earplug between the hammer and lower will prevent damage if it gets away from you.
Andy
If you have BCM factory lowers, they typically have their PNT trigger. This is actually a pretty nice trigger. What sort of things are you looking for the new trigger to accomplish? Uses?
If you have BCM factory lowers, they typically have their PNT trigger. This is actually a pretty nice trigger. What sort of things are you looking for the new trigger to accomplish? Uses?
Mostly looking for a little quicker trigger. Triggers not bad maybe a little spongy, but I keep hearing that getting an upgraded trigger from standard Mil-Spec is a big difference.
LaRue MBT-2S, or since you mentioned single stage, MBT-1S.
Hiperfire EDT2/Heavy Gunner
The Geissele SSA is well worth it if you get it on a good sale. Otherwise, any of the other three are good.
As noted, the trigger you have is pretty decent already. If you really want an upgrade I recommend the MBT from LaRue. I use the 2 stage model, but I'm pretty sure they make a single stage variant. I've got some G triggers. There is no denying that they're excellent, but IMO they're no better than the MBT and they cost about 3x as much.
Mostly looking for a little quicker trigger. Triggers not bad maybe a little spongy, but I keep hearing that getting an upgraded trigger from standard Mil-Spec is a big difference.
You might find the videos here informative. https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15-triggers/
Thanks for the feedback. I prefer a single stage trigger I know Geiselle has one model but out of stock everywhere. Open to other brands.
Geissele SSP
LaRue MBT-2S, or since you mentioned single stage, MBT-1S.
Geissele is probably going to be the most listed answer.
But here's a second for the Larue. They are a fine trigger for the price. Buy anything from Larue and you'll be prompted to add a trigger. At least go there and read all the reviews.
I have a couple BCM lowers how much benefit would I get from upgrading triggers? If so any good suggestions?
I wouldn’t waste my money on a trigger unless it’s a rifle set up for precision or matches. Personally, I have no use for a 2-stage trigger outside of those scenarios.
Spend your money on ammo and training. I guarantee you will derive more benefit from that.
LaRue MBT-2S, or since you mentioned single stage, MBT-1S.
Hiperfire EDT2/Heavy Gunner
The Geissele SSA is well worth it if you get it on a good sale. Otherwise, any of the other three are good.
I'l second the Larue for the money, very hard to beat and its single stage and crisp. My goto is G-SSA.
PB
turnburglar
09-14-20, 12:51
Mostly looking for a little quicker trigger. Triggers not bad maybe a little spongy, but I keep hearing that getting an upgraded trigger from standard Mil-Spec is a big difference.
I think you need to go actually feel a high quality trigger. "quicker" is not a term I would use to describe one. Spending $230 on a trigger will not make your gun shoot faster. Learning how to shoot faster is how your gun will shoot faster. There is a real technique to it called the 'rhythm drill'. A lot of shooters have a trigger preference. I prefer 2 stage triggers to single stage triggers. Although I understand there are some very nice single stage triggers, I like the ability to prep the trigger before breaking the shot. Thats just my preference. I own a G2S, Larue MBT-2s, and had 2 schmid triggers. They are all reliable except for one of the larues. One of the Schmids was weird outa the box but broke in really nicely after awhile. My G2S is the oldest trigger with the most round counts and is the gold standard, I just have a slight preference for the Larue triggers. If I had to pick only one it would be Larue.
Mostly looking for a little quicker trigger. Triggers not bad maybe a little spongy, but I keep hearing that getting an upgraded trigger from standard Mil-Spec is a big difference.
A 2-stage will never be as quick as a single stage.
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I have tried a LaRue MBT-2s and it has a very nice break but I wouldn't call it "quicker" either. However some of the match triggers have an extremely short travel and should be a lot quicker in the right hands. For example look at the two stage Triggertech video clip on https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15-triggers/
(reply to both turnburglar and scooter22)
Thanks for the feedback. I prefer a single stage trigger I know Geiselle has one model but out of stock everywhere. Open to other brands.
I believe in the zen of the two stage trigger. It really is the way to go for a multi use rifle. If you are set on a single stage, I have no advice to offer.
I bet that the Geissele SSA is one of the most liked/loved premium triggers around. Also, the SSA-E, is a great trigger for longer shots, but it is pretty light for combat type work. There is something about the SSA, it just works.
The bargain 2 stage trigger is the LaRue MBT2, excellent for less than $100.
Like I said, I got nothing on single stage for the OP.
Before dropping money in a new trigger, clean up the one you've got now.
Remove the FCG (Fire Control Group) from your AR and clean it with solvent or really hot water & crush soap to remove any oil, grease or preservative.
Grease the sears, the pin holes and the bottom curve of the hammer and reinstall.
Next, without the upper installed, work the trigger while watching your favorite show. You do this by cocking the hammer, then pull up on the hammer against the sear s with one hand and press the trigger with the other. Not too hard, though. You don't want to chip or round the corners of the sears. Degrease and repeat as necessary. This will smooth out the sear contact areas and get rid of the crunchentick feeling of the factory trigger. The trigger pull will be greatly improved.
Don't let the hammer slip from your fingers and bang against the lower. This will eventually damage your lower.
Another thing- if the trigger is installed dry, it doesn't matter how good the trigger is. It'll feel like a dump truck load of gravel found its way into the lower. Grease your triggers, boys & girls!
When working a trigger I just take a piece of terry cloth or an old sock and fold it over a few times and jam it between the hammer and receiver. That way I can just pull the trigger and the hammer will just hit the cloth, and I don't have to worry about the hammer contacting the receiver.
I have tried a LaRue MBT-2s and it has a very nice break but I wouldn't call it "quicker" either. However some of the match triggers have an extremely short travel and should be a lot quicker in the right hands. For example look at the two stage Triggertech video clip on https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15-triggers/
(reply to both turnburglar and scooter22)
The non adjustable (i think its called “ar combat”) Triggertech is in fact quite fast. But it does not retain its pins via conventional means, rather though a set screw tensioning contraption. Its very nice to shoot, though.
Thanks fo all the advice, Think I’ll buy one new trigger for my 556 and see before I buy multiple. Can’t find the LaRue or Geiselle I want though?
The LaRue MBT-2s is $87 shipped, direct from LaRue: https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/
The non adjustable (i think its called “ar combat”) Triggertech is in fact quite fast. But it does not retain its pins via conventional means, rather though a set screw tensioning contraption. Its very nice to shoot, though.
Does it appear robust enough for serious use?
I've stopped buying "G" SSA's and switched to LaRue MBT-2's. I am totally happy with them at 1/2 the price of the G triggers.
Does it appear robust enough for serious use?
Its method of retaining the pins is foreign to me, and leaves me wondering about trustworthiness. I need more time on it, but it does not strike me as a serious trigger despite my feelings that it is both safe and awesome in feel.
Mine’s in a gun that I am using to experiment with recoil reduction and split times. My goto gun has a Wilson TTU “Paul Howe”.
I have tried a LaRue MBT-2s and it has a very nice break but I wouldn't call it "quicker" either. However some of the match triggers have an extremely short travel and should be a lot quicker in the right hands. For example look at the two stage Triggertech video clip on https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15-triggers/
(reply to both turnburglar and scooter22)
Shorter travel and lighter engagement definitely = faster speed between shots. Very easy to tune some so light that you better be careful and paying attention lest...
I have a couple of ALG/ACT single stage triggers. Actually very good for me.
Dr. Bullseye
09-16-20, 12:17
A better trigger was a huge boost in shooting accuracy for me. I went first to an ALG/ACT trigger which was definitely better than mil spec. Then, I got sidetracked on a binary trigger which was a piece of crap. But from these two triggers (actually three counting mil spec) I learned what I wanted: a short travel distance, quick, short reset, light trigger. I got a Rise RA 140 drop in trigger with anti-walk hardware for about $140.00. I am very happy. Zero misfires. This is all the trigger I will need.
But, in looking around, there are many companies which make this same class of light, quick, drop in trigger for very little money. Take your pick.
I have replaced all of my "better" triggers (On SPR type rifles etc...) with LaRue MBT's. Liked them so much and they are SO cheap, I now have them on half of my "everyday" rifles too. I mean, hell, you can buy 3 of them for what an SSA-E costs.....Why not?
Thanks for all the replies. Buddy actually had a Geiselle ssp trigger new so I got a hookup. Now to figure out if I want to install it myself?
Thanks for all the replies. Buddy actually had a Geiselle ssp trigger new so I got a hookup. Now to figure out if I want to install it myself?
Dude its easy. Google it. Make sure the springs are facing the right way with the legs in the correct position. Perform function check.
This would be like paying someone to refuel your lawnmower for you.
Dude its easy. Google it. Make sure the springs are facing the right way with the legs in the correct position. Perform function check.
This would be like paying someone to refuel your lawnmower for you.
How do you fuel a lawnmower, just pay a gardener. Kidding aside I’m sure I’ll figure it out. Probably more intimidating then it actually is. Actually the thing that I’m trying to figure out is lubing it correctly.
How do you fuel a lawnmower, just pay a gardener. Kidding aside I’m sure I’ll figure it out. Probably more intimidating then it actually is. Actually the thing that I’m trying to figure out is lubing it correctly.
Lube the silvery spots where metal on metal is happening. And the pins. Medium coat of whatever you have on hand. Or just put a light coat on the whole thing and call it good.
I use the mil comm grease For my gun, is oil better for the trigger group Like slip or something like that? Thanks
I use the mil comm grease For my gun, is oil better for the trigger group Like slip or something like that? Thanks
I’m not familiar with that grease, but its like 99% likely to be fine. Put a dab on the silvery spots. I actually use grease on mine most of the time. Any grease I have on hand.
Thanks for all the replies. Buddy actually had a Geiselle ssp trigger new so I got a hookup. Now to figure out if I want to install it myself?
If I may be so bold-
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?72111-Installing-the-Geissele-SSA-E-Trigger&highlight=
OP, for reference, we had a fairly lengthy thread last year about the best candidates to upgrade the milspec trigger.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?217104-Trigger-options-2019
If you boil it down to the leading options (not to say there aren't other good ones), these are 3 leading options that that are confirmed by a lot of shooters on this site and elsewhere, and are widely available. I've used the Schmid (Sionics version) and the Geissele (SSA-E) options personally.
From least to most expensive:
* Schmid Tool 1005 2-stage. Made by Schmid Tool & Engineering (http://www.schmidtool.com/cnc-machining-steel-trigger-military-industry.html), this trigger is branded and resold by a number of places, check for pricing. Examples: PSA (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-2-stage-nickel-boron-trigger-assembly1.html), Sionics (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/lower-receiver-parts/214-bolt-carrier-group-hpmpi-tested-with-np3-carrier.html), Botach (https://botach.com/1005-tactical-2-stage-nickel-boron-plated-triggers-assemblies/).
* Larue MBT-2S (https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/).
* Geissele SSA/SSA-E (https://geissele.com/super-semi-automatic-enhanced-ssa-e-trigger.html) (the SSA-E are what I use on 3 rifles that I upgraded the trigger).
I have replaced all of my "better" triggers (On SPR type rifles etc...) with LaRue MBT's. Liked them so much and they are SO cheap, I now have them on half of my "everyday" rifles too. I mean, hell, you can buy 3 of them for what an SSA-E costs.....Why not?
Because G-triggers are better and proven reliable. You get what you pay for in nearly all instances.
* Schmid Tool 1005 2-stage. Made by Schmid Tool & Engineering (http://www.schmidtool.com/cnc-machining-steel-trigger-military-industry.html), this trigger is branded and resold by a number of places, check for pricing. Examples: PSA (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-2-stage-nickel-boron-trigger-assembly1.html), Sionics (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/lower-receiver-parts/214-bolt-carrier-group-hpmpi-tested-with-np3-carrier.html), Botach (https://botach.com/1005-tactical-2-stage-nickel-boron-plated-triggers-assemblies/).
Is this the same or different? https://centurionarms.com/triggers/centurion-arms-llc-advanced-sniper-trigger-ast-2-stage-trigger/
Because G-triggers are better and proven reliable. You get what you pay for in nearly all instances.
Y’all getting light strikes or breaking MBT’s?
Because G-triggers are better and proven reliable. You get what you pay for in nearly all instances.
Just curious, what problems have you been having with your LaRue triggers?
I’ve got a few of both and haven’t had issues, but I’m always interested in peoples’ experiences.
Because G-triggers are better and proven reliable. You get what you pay for in nearly all instances.
I agree with you in the sense that I prefer the SSA-E trigger and that's what I have on most of my rifles. But the MBT-2S, they are a nice trigger as well and I'm not aware of any data that would prove they're any less mechanically reliable than the G ones that I have.
Actually the same thing goes for the Schmid 1005-based triggers. There are apparently many different rebranded versions of them out there. A question I have is, is there any significant difference between any of those rebranded versions? For instance, is there any difference between the Sionics one I have ($79.95), or the PSA one ($59.95)? Sionics told me on the phone that their version has some 'secret sauce' added performance and coating. I have no way of verifying that is or is not true, literally no way to tell. What I DO know for sure is: that Sionics 2-stage Schmid 1005 trigger is amazing for the money. It is ALMOST as nice as my SSA-E triggers, for about 1/3 the price. And no less reliable, so far.
Is this the same or different? https://centurionarms.com/triggers/centurion-arms-llc-advanced-sniper-trigger-ast-2-stage-trigger/
I honestly don't know--but it wouldn't surprise if it is. The description, and the appearance of the trigger, is really similar to the Sionics 2-stage. Goes back to my comment above, I'm really curious whether any of these rebranded Schmid 1005's have any difference between them at all, or if really everybody is just slapping their own label on them (that would be my guess, but who knows).
Just curious, what problems have you been having with your LaRue triggers?
I’ve got a few of both and haven’t had issues, but I’m always interested in peoples’ experiences.
I did not say I had issues with that trigger. Most trigger groups are pretty reliable if installed correctly and I've had many, but none as consistent as my G-Triggers. My preference happens to be the SSA-E for general purpose use.
I honestly don't know--but it wouldn't surprise if it is. The description, and the appearance of the trigger, is really similar to the Sionics 2-stage. Goes back to my comment above, I'm really curious whether any of these rebranded Schmid 1005's have any difference between them at all, or if really everybody is just slapping their own label on them (that would be my guess, but who knows).I'm trying to ascertain the same info. Not sure if there truly are differences in coatings, additional QC from the vendor, or if all the Schmid 2 stage triggers are really just the same.
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Id wait until Black Friday and buy a Geissele trigger. The best option I’ve found is a SSA E with the SSA trigger spring. A 4# pull with the cleaner break
Is this the same or different? https://centurionarms.com/triggers/centurion-arms-llc-advanced-sniper-trigger-ast-2-stage-trigger/
From my conversations with Corrie at CA, I know that the triggers do come from Schmid. Whether they are "identical" to other labels that originate with Schmid, I do not know. Corrie did tell me that before settling on the models that they are offering, Monty tried out a variety of samples from Schmid to determine the best ones for their purposes.
Rock River 2 stage is what I use.
davidjinks
10-03-20, 07:18
The only triggers I spend money on are Geissele.
SSA and SD-C are what go into any of my rifles.
I have a couple BCM lowers how much benefit would I get from upgrading triggers? If so any good suggestions?
There are a lot of trigger choices now that did not exist just a few years ago. I like the BCM PNT trigger for a mil-spec style trigger and the LaRue 2 stage for a "precision" trigger due to the price. I have a G2S trigger in my LMT M4gery, it's good to go but more costly than the LaRue and has a weird hammer pin retention method.
I built about all the "precision" AR lowers I plan to before the Schmid 2 stage appeared.
Andy
indianalex01
10-04-20, 22:18
The only triggers I spend money on are Geissele.
SSA and SD-C are what go into any of my rifles.
There are other good triggers. I have 3 Geisseles and they are amazing. The LaRue is the best for the price. Price wise it’s a better value then Geissele.
Geissele triggers!
28 more posts like this and you can use the EE!
There are other good triggers. I have 3 Geisseles and they are amazing. The LaRue is the best for the price. Price wise it’s a better value then Geissele.
I haven’t tried the LaRue, good to know it’s that good, on the other hand Black Friday is around the corner & hopefully as in years past one can pick up Geissele at a good discount
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I haven't read through all the responses but something to consider if it hasn't been mentioned yet. I've been trying to buy a couple Geissele parts for months and they've been pretty much out of stock with everything, since last Black Friday. I've started to consider CMC, at least for a trigger upgrade.
You can't beat the Larue MBT2S for the price.
You can't beat the Larue MBT-2S for the price.
I have multiple Geissele SSA-E triggers, and they used to be my go-to. Now, i'm only buying Larue MBT-2s triggers anymore. They are darn near every bit as good as my Geisseles, for 1/3rd the price. I can get 2 or 3 MBT-2s triggers for the price of 1 SSA-E.
Larue knocked it out of the park on quality and price with these.
I have two MBT’s and two Geisselles. The MBT’s are easily as good. One wouldn’t fit in my DD5 lower and Mark Larue told me to buy a new lower. I’m a Geisselle man from here on out.
I have two MBT’s and two Geisselles. The MBT’s are easily as good. One wouldn’t fit in my DD5 lower and Mark Larue told me to buy a new lower. I’m a Geisselle man from here on out.
ML is not known for compassion. Still he has great products. lol
I have two MBT’s and two Geisselles. The MBT’s are easily as good. One wouldn’t fit in my DD5 lower and Mark Larue told me to buy a new lower. I’m a Geisselle man from here on out.
Did you measure the trigger? Granted that wasn't a polite response but it does matter whether it was the trigger or the DD5 lower that was actually out of spec.
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