View Full Version : 36 yard RDS zero ?
My friend just did me a solid and installed my RDS on my AK74. He said it was the flattest trajectory from 0-300 yards.
Anyone else this use this RDS zero.
PB
It's kind of a compromise for having limited distance to zero a rifle at. Nothing beats being able to push it to (at a minimum) the max ordinate distance of the weapon so that you get the most target and weapon input when zeroing, but given where the 36y zero was born (Military) it is a compromise.
As for the flattest trajectory, that's not necessarily true, because it depends on what distance we're concerned about. If 300y itself is the goal, then the 36y will theoretically be very close to POA at that distance. A more common zero is the 50/200, which is still very flat out to 300y. I run a true 200y zero, and my POI @ 100y is +1.1" and POI @ 300y is -6.4". The 50y will produce similar results.
In comparison, using a ballistics calculator, the 36y zero produces a POI +3.2" @ 100y, +4.3" @ 200y, and -0.1" at 300y.
I think it's a balancing act between prioritizing the first 200y, or 200-300. In essence, they're all very effective and infinitely better than the 25y "zero".
I think you will be well served with the 36y zero, but for me, the first 200y is a higher priority so I prefer to zero accordingly.
Yea, I guess its if you want to maximize your guns capability to shoot at 300yrd POA, POI. I see your point too, Ive always used 50-200 confirming out to 200.
PB
Assuming that Nikon SpotOn is correct with the velocity and BC for Wolf ammo, a 25(ish) yard zero will maximize your PBR.
What is your approximate sight height above bore and what is the maximum acceptable POI rise/fall (how big is your target)?
Andy
Straight Shooter
09-15-20, 08:12
This, of course..has been the subject of un-countable arguments, stats, ballistic charts, personal experience...ect. On this forum alone SCADS of opinions.
My thoughts are this: Ive realistically looked at my AO. Ive realistically looked at MY capabilities, weapons, ammo, gear.
I went with the 50/200 zero- and confirmed it many times with my weapons- dead on at 200. I know my holds out to 400.
In a SHTF/SD situation, Im as confident as I can be about my ability to hit fast aout to 300 & with a bit more time-out to 400.
I believe each person has to decide whats best. There is NO agreement whatsoever from the pros on youtube..some argue 100yd sight in, some 50, some 36, 25 and probably even more.
Im going with what I KNOW-& thats 50/200.
Thunderpigeon
09-15-20, 09:10
My friend just did me a solid and installed my RDS on my AK74.
My friend just did me a solid and installed my RDS on my AK74.
Yes, AK-74 means 5.45x39 and it's not an AR, if that is what your cryptic post is alluding to. That is why I asked about sight height above bore.
Andy
Five_Point_Five_Six
09-15-20, 09:59
It's basically a lazy 300 yard zero.
vicious_cb
09-15-20, 20:05
Ive shot 10s of thousands of 7n6 before they banned it. With 50/200 yd zero you are getting the same drops as 5.56 with 55/62gr within the error of your dot. A 36yd zero is pointless.
Something to consider, Look at the accuracy potential of the ammunition, the firearm and the biggest one of all-the shooter. Look at the differences in the various zeros with the actual useful range or I should say most likely range and in the end I wouldn't fret over which zero for the most part.
I use the 36y/m zero. I shoot irons and 300m is about the limit of my middle age eyes to actually see a target well enough to hit. Which I can do consistently as my last outing proved. Using a Colt SoCOM 14.5 barrel and 55gr ball. After zeroing at 36 I readjusted slightly at 100 then moved out to 200 and 300. Biggest thing IMO is knowing your holds.
Something to consider, Look at the accuracy potential of the ammunition, the firearm and the biggest one of all-the shooter. Look at the differences in the various zeros with the actual useful range or I should say most likely range and in the end I wouldn't fret over which zero for the most part.
Strelok has a feature where the user inputs in the target size(like vital zones on an animal) then it uses that along with cartridge ballistics and sight height over bore to give a recommended point blank sight distance to guarantee(in theory) a hit in the desired area. Then the particulars of real world you mentioned have to be factored in to whether that will/can happen.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/kill_zone_game_animals.htm#:~:text=Given%20those%20external%20body%20measurements,deer%20%3D%2010%22%2D11%22
It's basically a lazy 300 yard zero.
This.
The second intersection is the zero.
If you don’t zero an AR at 200 yards you’re doing it wrong.
ViniVidivici
09-18-20, 12:16
I grew up with the 25, I've evolved to the 50/200. Satisfied with it.
36 does seem pointless. Knowing your holds, and your own weapon, matters most, obviously.
If you show up, and you can make the hits, I don't care how you zeroed.
It's kind of a compromise for having limited distance to zero a rifle at. Nothing beats being able to push it to (at a minimum) the max ordinate distance of the weapon so that you get the most target and weapon input when zeroing, but given where the 36y zero was born (Military) it is a compromise.
As for the flattest trajectory, that's not necessarily true, because it depends on what distance we're concerned about. If 300y itself is the goal, then the 36y will theoretically be very close to POA at that distance. A more common zero is the 50/200, which is still very flat out to 300y. I run a true 200y zero, and my POI @ 100y is +1.1" and POI @ 300y is -6.4". The 50y will produce similar results.
In comparison, using a ballistics calculator, the 36y zero produces a POI +3.2" @ 100y, +4.3" @ 200y, and -0.1" at 300y.
I think it's a balancing act between prioritizing the first 200y, or 200-300. In essence, they're all very effective and infinitely better than the 25y "zero".
I think you will be well served with the 36y zero, but for me, the first 200y is a higher priority so I prefer to zero accordingly.
Even at 300 with the 50/200 you mention you're only about 6" low. I can live with that.
I also have found by looking at tables that even with .308 that is a good, relatively flat zero.
50/200 all day long baby! Seems to be the best all-around zero for common long-gun ammo (5.56, .308, even 7.62x39). Also the easiest to use because just about everyone can get at least 50y to zero at. My home range is 100y.
Five_Point_Five_Six
09-19-20, 13:25
Even at 300 with the 50/200 you mention you're only about 6" low. I can live with that.
I also have found by looking at tables that even with .308 that is a good, relatively flat zero.
50/200 all day long baby! Seems to be the best all-around zero for common long-gun ammo (5.56, .308, even 7.62x39). Also the easiest to use because just about everyone can get at least 50y to zero at. My home range is 100y.
You will not get a 50/200 zero with 7.62x39.
You will not get a 50/200 zero with 7.62x39.
True, but it isn't too shabby from what I recall looking at it some time ago.
True, but it isn't too shabby from what I recall looking at it some time ago.
If you zero 7.62x39 at 50, you'll be 8" low at 200.
Five_Point_Five_Six
09-22-20, 11:30
True, but it isn't too shabby from what I recall looking at it some time ago.
It's a 50/100m zero for 7.62x39. I zero at 100m and that gets you on target without thinking about holds out to 150m. At 200, you're about 7-8" low.
Something to consider, Look at the accuracy potential of the ammunition, the firearm and the biggest one of all-the shooter. Look at the differences in the various zeros with the actual useful range or I should say most likely range and in the end I wouldn't fret over which zero for the most part.
I've often said that a leading merit for the 50yd zero is that it's the farthest distance at which most owners retain enough proficiency to achieve an actual (or at least reasonable) zero.
I've often said that a leading merit for the 50yd zero is that it's the farthest distance at which most owners retain enough proficiency to achieve an actual (or at least reasonable) zero.
I agree. Sometimes we need to sit back and look at reality.
Diamondback
09-22-20, 13:16
For most urban/suburban New Owners who've been stripping the shelves bare the past year, unless they're also hunters 50 yards is probably the extreme limit of any shot they might have to make, at least if the small towns around my area are anything like typical.
It's a 50/100m zero for 7.62x39. I zero at 100m and that gets you on target without thinking about holds out to 150m. At 200, you're about 7-8" low.
One of the reasons I dropped 7.62x39 guns.
Was shooting at 275 yds (Lpvo) from a warm AK on a windy day with a 50 yd zero using Russian ammo. Lots of misses.
Now how about for a 16 in .308? I use a 50 yd zero but haven't fired it past 200 yds.
I've often said that a leading merit for the 50yd zero is that it's the farthest distance at which most owners retain enough proficiency to achieve an actual (or at least reasonable) zero.
I agree 100%, but its not just proficiency, physical limitations do come into play. My eyesight is suffering with age and shooting groups at 100 or 200 meters is much more difficult than 50 with an RDS or irons. I can put shots on target, but shooting groups/zeroing is a different ball game.
Andy
I think I said in an earlier post that if I can see the target out to 300m then I can hit it. My middle age eyes aren't what they used to be but being in good health helps. I use the 36m/paces zero with some adjustment in elevation for 100m. Once I did that I took it out to 300m with consistent hits on a slightly smaller than "man" sized target steel. I'm using irons until I find an etched glass optic I like and can afford. Which won't be easy due to my personal prohibition on chinese made anything. My iron sight set up is a simple DD A1 rear with KNS precision "pin head" front painted gold by me.
robbins290
09-23-20, 12:45
I only use irons, besides my hunting carbine. My range is only 70 yards. So that is what i use. Tight forest and hill terrain, 70 yards is good enough for this area. Id they are on the other side of a gully, We will not be able to see each other. Almost all of my deer kills are under 100 yards anyways. If i lived out west, there is no way i would use the 68 yard sight in. 200 would be the min. And i would stray away from irons.
The 50 yard/meter zero works well with AR ballistics and sight height over bore.
A 50M zero using a 30-06 (for example) with an inch lower sight height does not do the combination justice.
Andy
robbins290
09-23-20, 13:07
When i sighted in my .30-06, i was 1" high at 70 yards. Always worked good. But the last 3 years, i have been using a carbine chambered in 5.56 with 62 grain bullets. Never had a issue. Always hit in the lungs.
I agree 100%, but its not just proficiency, physical limitations do come into play. My eyesight is suffering with age and shooting groups at 100 or 200 meters is much more difficult than 50 with an RDS or irons. I can put shots on target, but shooting groups/zeroing is a different ball game. Andy
Yes, I agree - and neglected to include that specifically. I have one foot in that boat as well.
My zero is a 50 yard zero but thought this was an interesting video & why the author likes a 36 yard zero.
https://youtu.be/jttB1kUXfJE
I agree 100%, but its not just proficiency, physical limitations do come into play. My eyesight is suffering with age and shooting groups at 100 or 200 meters is much more difficult than 50 with an RDS or irons. I can put shots on target, but shooting groups/zeroing is a different ball game.
Andy
Yes, I agree - and neglected to include that specifically. I have one foot in that boat as well.Same. Even with glasses. I can hit center mass I just can't do groups. A member here took a picture of my 25yrd prone 5 shot group. If he sees this he's more than welcome to post it!
Kinda looked like this
. . .
. X .
. . .
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Cincinnatus15
09-24-20, 07:11
My zero is a 50 yard zero but thought this was an interesting video & why the author likes a 36 yard zero.
https://youtu.be/jttB1kUXfJE
Travis Haley has a video on the 36 yd zero as well. In bootcamp we zero’d irons at 36 yds as well.
davidjinks
10-03-20, 07:21
I don’t know anything about AK rifles, however, all my optics get a 100 yard zero. I confirm hold overs/unders, make slight tweaks and I’m good to go.
My friend just did me a solid and installed my RDS on my AK74. He said it was the flattest trajectory from 0-300 yards.
Anyone else this use this RDS zero.
PB
Some past threads by SME's here on how to zero:
The reference thread (Molon):
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?65679-AR-15-Zeros-and-Trajectories
The 100-yard zero (Failure2stop):
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?107572-Zen-of-the-100-Meter-Zero
Vickers approach (100 preferred, 50 when necessary):
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?89871-AAR-Vickers-Tactical-Basic-Carbine-course-25-Sept-2011
I'm a simpleton and zero all centerfire rifles at 100 yards. RDS, scope, etc. Only reason I'd do different is if a BDC system called for a different zero (I don't currently own any). 9MM ARs / CZ Scorpion get a 50 yard zero. I am in an environment where getting shots much further than 200-300 yards on a regular basis is difficult but if I lived out west, I would consider a different zero.
And with that, I pretty much stop thinking about other options, having exhausted the arguments for / against.
If you are running irons on an M16A2/A4 then you would be solid with a 36yd zero, because you can adjust for elevation at 100, 200, 300, etc. For anything else, a 50/200 or 100 is optimal.
If you are running irons on an M16A2/A4 then you would be solid with a 36yd zero, because you can adjust for elevation at 100, 200, 300, etc. For anything else, a 50/200 or 100 is optimal.
Iron sights + my less than perfect middle age eyes makes the 36m/paces/yard zero work for me. Someday I'll get out a tape measure and get a precise distance but for now my own paces seem to work. I readjusted at 100 since I seemed to be hitting rather high and then switched to 300 getting hits on a smaller than chest size steel. I feel like if I can see it out to 300m then I can hit it.
chamber143
10-23-20, 07:21
I have recently moved to a 36 yd zero on my ar. I have an 11.5 inch and with hand loaded 77 gr Noslers, i am at zero at 36 and around 125. I love how that out to about 175 its only ever .8 inches either side of poa. I think at 250 its maybe 5 inches low. With a red dotted sbr i dont see shooting much past that at any point. I think with zero you really need to find what works with the bullet weight you using.
chamber143
11-08-20, 08:34
I have recently moved to a 36 yd zero on my ar. I have an 11.5 inch and with hand loaded 77 gr Noslers, i am at zero at 36 and around 125. I love how that out to about 175 its only ever .8 inches either side of poa. I think at 250 its maybe 5 inches low. With a red dotted sbr i dont see shooting much past that at any point. I think with zero you really need to find what works with the bullet weight you using.
After running it through two classes, i hate the 36 yard and will be going back to the 100. I dont like how you have to adjust your holdover up or down depending on the various distances and i liked how the 100 is only hold overs. I think any zero is fine as long as you know where the bullet goes at different distances. For me i want simplicity and 36 isnt it.
Hopefully it's just me but Molons thread seems to have lost all of the images and graphs. That was such a great reference...
Hopefully it's just me but Molons thread seems to have lost all of the images and graphs. That was such a great reference...
Internet Archive has them. http://web.archive.org/web/20180324221956/http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?65679-AR-15-Zeros-and-Trajectories
I have been using the 36 yard zero for about a year with good result. But I should say the 36 paces zero... Last week I actually got my hands on a tape measure and measured it out for real. Turns out my zero has been short of an actual 36 yards. I am well over 6' so I figured with my stride I would be close enough, nope.. So I re-zeroed at a real 36yd so now my next step is testing at 100, 200 and 300yds .
16" nitirde barrel. carbine gas system. 55g 5.56 remanufactured from freedom munitions. ran to back of 25 yard indoor range. zeroed irons for 36y zero. palmetto state upper and lower
64254
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.