View Full Version : SUV shopping - Nissan or Toyota
You would think I would know better - having grown up in Detroit!
There's a reason most folks there hated Fords and drove GM:). Well - my wife’s 1 year old Ford Escape IS ON IT’s THIRD ENGINE!!!!!! So tomorrow we start shopping for a new ride - mid-sized SUV.
Nissan or Toyota (or maybe Honda?). She travels a LOT - so if nothing else, who has more dealerships out there - just in case her luck continues:). Any good feedback on specific models?
TIA
geezer john
I’m a Toyota fan. Have had multiple 200k + mile SUVs from them and will continue to buy. The only negative is the poor gas mileage of their V8s. We had a V6 Limited model 4wd 2007 4-Runner and it got 22 mpg hwy in 2wd. My 2000 landcruiser gets 13 mpg city, 17 mpg hwy, which sucks. But I love it. My wife’s 2017 Lexus GX460 gets about 20 mpg hwy. Love it too.
Coal Dragger
09-15-20, 22:37
Generally in SUV’s Toyota is the go to in any class for trouble free long term ownership.
I just picked up a CRV with AWD, my last car was a 2009 Mitsubishi Galant so it’s like going from an Atari straight to a PS5. My wife has an Outback and I feel like the CRV is more spacious inside and has better visibility.
grizzlyblake
09-15-20, 23:25
Toyota all the way. 4Runner and Land Cruiser are the only ones 100% made in Japan.
A 4Runner is kind of a BCM of SUVs. Nissan would be your M&P Sport.
I have a 2005 Land Cruiser. It's just broken in with 205k on it. Fuel economy blows big time. I'd drive it anywhere and any distance without a second thought as long as I knew there were gas stations. My vote is Toyota.
Toyota Honda or Subaru. All will do a great job. Hyundai and Nissan are throw away cars. Mitsubishi is even worse.
MC_Oper8or
09-15-20, 23:44
Mazda, Toyota or Kia. Honda and Hyundai are not what they used to be.
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Toyota. Period.
Don’t expect the latest tech from them and you won’t experience the headaches that go along with new tech either.
I recently borrowed a newer Chevy Tahoe while my Sequoia was in the shop for a heater blend door replacement- I usually do my own work but didn’t have the time to dismantle the whole center console And dash to do the replacement myself- I loathed every minute driving that Tahoe.
Without getting into details, the 2010 Sequoia was light years ahead of the 2017 Tahoe in so many ways. Just every aspect and little detail.
That’s not even getting into longevity and overall performance.
I’ve had limited experience with Nissan, and although they are fairly good, don’t even go there. Just go Toyota and you’ll thank yourself.
I've owned three Nissan's since 2001. My newest one is a 2015 Altima. It is a POS. The quality of Nissan has declined greatly. They recently lost a class action lawsuit due to transmission problems. I know your question concerns SUVs but some of those vehicles share components with the mid-size sedans such as the Altima. I would stay far away from all things Nissan. Especially if the vehicle has a CVT transmission. I purchased a Toyota van last summer. Couldn't be happier.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-20, 00:35
All the Toyota real SUVs are on their last years. 4Runner is way past due for a new model, but I don’t see a new one coming until late 2021, at the earliest. It’s 10 years old. Sequim’ s and Land Crusiers are much younger. That said, we are probably going to buy one in the spring. They get crappy mileage due to have a ancient 3 speed transmission;) , but most of the bugs are worked out and it has a lot of the safety features in the 2020 models.
Explorer is new. Jeep Grand Cherokee is due for a new model soon, Wranglers are pretty new- but who knows when you can get a Bronco. The big GM suvs are new.
MC_Oper8or
09-16-20, 00:54
Lexus GX 460. You're welcome.
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I was in the same boat last summer. Basically I was told to stay away from CVT in general, unless you plan to lease.
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None of the above. Buy American.
I owned a 2007 Pathfinder that I drove for 275k miles with zero major problems, just standard maintenance. I traded it in last year for a 2015 Xterra and hope to get the same. A sample of one but still a sample. However, I do not like the current rendition of the Pathfinder as I think it is ugly and just a SUV bodied Maxima.
grizzlyblake
09-16-20, 07:31
None of the above. Buy American.
I do low voltage type work and have done a bunch for the Toyota plants here in the US. They make the engines for the Tacomas and Tundras in Huntsville AL, and have a huge plant in KY for full assembly of some cars (don't remember which ones.) They employ a ton of Americans and have a great environment. They are non-Union.
I also bid on some work for GM and lost it to the local union electrician who bid 5x my number. My 4Runner also got a ticket while parked on the GM property because it was a foreign car.
Unionized American auto manufacturing is a disgrace.
Generally in SUV’s Toyota is the go to in any class for trouble free long term ownership.
^^^ This, and I own a full size GMC pickup and a Chevy Traverse currently. I would stay away from Nissan, the CVT's are horrible. My wife had a 2009 Rogue that 2 replaced under warranty, where the car sat in the shop for multiple weeks, and then we bought a Altima that got almost 40mpg, but the transmission went out on that too and we ended up moving on from Nissan all together.
I do low voltage type work and have done a bunch for the Toyota plants here in the US. They make the engines for the Tacomas and Tundras in Huntsville AL, and have a huge plant in KY for full assembly of some cars (don't remember which ones.) They employ a ton of Americans and have a great environment. They are non-Union.
I also bid on some work for GM and lost it to the local union electrician who bid 5x my number. My 4Runner also got a ticket while parked on the GM property because it was a foreign car.
Unionized American auto manufacturing is a disgrace.
If it wasn't for the unions and wanton waste a loaded F150 or Silverado would cost $25k. I worked at a tier 1 supplier to all the major OEM's and saw first hand how they flush money down the toilet on a regular basis.
landrvrnut22
09-16-20, 08:03
Toyota, Honda, or Subaru.
We have had at least one of each. Currently have a Subaru Forester, Toyota Tacoma, and a Nissan Titan. The Titan has been a great truck with 150k trouble free miles. The Subaru has been a great car for my wife. We are ready to replace it, as hers is an 09 with 120k. She had a CRV before, and for the most part it was great. The Toyota Highlander was a great vehicle, but watch the newer ones. They went to a 10spd trans in 2013, and it has had some growing pains. The 2012 Highlander is the one to get. They sell for a premium, and sell fast!
As mentioned, Nissan has had some real problems with their CVT's. I did rent a Rogue when in LA last Christmas, and it was a nice vehicle to drive, even in the crazy LA freeways!
Toyota all the way. 4Runner and Land Cruiser are the only ones 100% made in Japan.
A 4Runner is kind of a BCM of SUVs. Nissan would be your M&P Sport.
So you are saying that Toyota's don't drive straight?
:jester:
Lexus GX 460. You're welcome.
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This, with the V8 it is an awesome ride.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-20, 08:39
Lexus GX 460. You're welcome.
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This, with the V8 it is an awesome ride.
Damn, that GX is F-Ugly. What is up with that grill? If it looked like a 4Runner, I’d pay the $10k Premium for the V8 and six speed trans... That grill looks like something out of a Bond movie, made to make some talk or get cheese grated...
If it wasn't for the unions and wanton waste a loaded F150 or Silverado would cost $25k. I worked at a tier 1 supplier to all the major OEM's and saw first hand how they flush money down the toilet on a regular basis.
This is why GM was trying to push production to Mexico for the last 7 years, and obviously had this plan thwarted by the 2016 election. You have to give it to Mercedes and Subaru with US plants in the US that are non-union. They pay the end worker more knowing that they don't have to deal with the BS of unions.
grizzlyblake
09-16-20, 08:53
So you are saying that Toyota's don't drive straight?
:jester:
Hahaha. Sure, "straight enough for close work."
everready73
09-16-20, 09:01
We just went through this. I would be looking at Toyota, Honda, Mazda, and Kia
You would be surprised how nice some of the newer Kia suv's are. Not the Kia of old. The Sorrento and Telluride are really nice..A girl at work just bought a sportage and it is sharp as well. Reviews are really good on these. We ended up going a different route, but i would look at them
Toyota isnt the newest tech, but make reliable vehicles. We looked at the RAV4 and hybrid version
Ultimately went with a Mazda CX5 and my wife really like s it so far. I wanted the CX9 as it is a little bigger, but she wanted the gas mileage of the 5.
Gabriel556
09-16-20, 09:10
Hank is right. I’ve been an MB guy for 20 years because I used to be a dealer tech. We’ve had great luck with all those, and my wife is on her second GL which is made in Alabama. The first one made it 160k miles and I did tires, brakes, and maybe 2 small unscheduled repairs. Before we got the second, I looked long and hard at other brands that had 3 row seating and Toyota/Lexus kept coming up. Drove a Nissan and the wife drove an Infiniti QX something or other for a couple days and hated it. I’m still interested in the Landcruiser/Lexus equivalent because of the durability. We aren’t “Gotta have the new hotness” technology gurus so latest and greatest isn’t necessary. But having 100% dispatch reliability is important. Having a decent getaway vehicle is too, so it’s gotta have decent performance too(my wife has to drive to different branches often and has been in areas affected by riots).
To sum up, of the options you laid out, Toyota. I don’t see a budget so don’t know if you are buying new or used but look at what some of the used ones go for. Many are close to what you can buy a new one for and you’ll be getting a vehicle that hasn’t been molested yet.
Edit: I just saw the OP is from the same state as me. If you want/need a recommendation on dealers let me know. I spent many a year in the industry.
SomeOtherGuy
09-16-20, 09:25
Toyota 100%. Runner up is Chevy/GM.
I've owned a Nissan SUV, a Honda Pilot and two other Hondas, and two Suburbans... of those the Suburban has been the best by far, INCLUDING for reliability and durability. Twice.
Only reason I haven't owned a Toyota SUV is that I need a full-size and their Sequoia lacks headroom for anyone over 5'10". You can't delete the sunroof and it was apparently designed only for women and short people. However, with my experience with Suburbans I would still go that route even if I fit in a Sequoia. The midsize category is different and the RAV and Highlander both look pretty good, assuming you don't need an off-road vehicle.
From my sample of two, I’d be leery of Mazda. My MIL has a CX5 and shortly after getting it she was at my house and when she went to leave it wouldn’t start, gave her a warning message that it was too hot to start.
After I totaled my Galant a few weeks ago I started out with a Jeep Gladiator rental but swapped it for a CX5 because the Jeep has horrible gas mileage. While on the freeway in the Mazda I heard a loud bang and the car started pulling hard to the right. Was able to get over to the shoulder just fine thinking it was a blown tire but on inspection all the tires were fine. When I got back in the car I saw warning messages basically saying the front collision detection sensor/ system was malfunctioning. I didn’t hit anything in the road or anything. Was about 113 out at the time.
Currently using the old family 4Runner (2002) as a second car for hauling dirt bikes, camping, and light off road. It’s only got 112k so it’s a baby. Hasn’t given the family any trouble aside from a leaky AC on one hot 10hr drive.
The interior in that car is light years better than my 2012 Subaru. Mechanicals are all solid.
If it’s for your wife and is going to be mostly town/highway I’d go with a Highlander. If you want some 4x4 capability go 4Runner. The Land Cruiser is the grail but it’s large and expensive.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-20, 10:56
That Telluride is supposed to be pretty sweeeeet. My brother really likes him.
Toyota by a long shot
Having lived worked in the islands and Caribbean and 3rd world countries you see some rusted out shells of other vehicles but the ones you see the most of on the road are Toyota :)
Have had a good handful of them and all of them were amazing and gave no issues
Also a HUGE aftermarket for them so if you want sliders or racks or bumpers that can stand up etc... you can find anything
Also besides dealers IF you kept your vehicle and like to wrench some HUGE fan base with great help on how to yourself and so on
My love started in the 80s with the trucks and old FJs we recently had a 2014 4Runner before that a new FJ first year made think it was 2007 but recently got a VW as we had a life change on what we were doing and do not do much 4x4 anymore and drive way more around town but I was also a VW nut so they are fun in their own way
I’m going to beat a dead horse here and say Toyota. Nissan is partially owned by Peugeot. And they’re not what they used to be. Quality has tanked. I sold my 04 4Runner limited two years ago with ~285k of trouble free miles for a deal in a Tundra I couldn’t pass up. There were two others of the same year model and trim that my mechanic serviced with +550k trouble free miles. Love the tundra and plan to keep it for another 14 years. My wife loves her Highlander, it gets great mileage and has been totally trouble free. Very nice to drive.
The Lexus GX is the American version of the land cruiser prado. An awesome vehicle.
If toyota brought their small diesels to the US i would be all over it.
I grew up in Michigan where driving a “rice burner” was considered a sin. My whole extended family is now driving highlanders and Avalon’s.
hotrodder636
09-16-20, 11:14
The wife and I have become Toyota/Lexus fans in the past few years. Started with a 2015 Lexus IS250 FSport, then traded it for a 2018 IS 350 FSport. Then got a 2018 Camry Hybrid, and just recently traded the Lexus for a 2020 Tacoma TRD Pro—more useful than the Lexus. We have been pleased with each of them. Reliable and they just run.
If I were in the market for a midsized SUV, I would definitely look at either the 4Runner (older tech but tried and true) or a Highlander. If full-sized, I would look at the Lexus or the Landcruiser (both pricey). While I haven’t owned one, I have rented a ton, but the Tahoe/Suburbans seem to be pretty decent, just don’t know about reliability/longevity.
hotrodder636
09-16-20, 11:14
Double.....
Mazda, Toyota or Kia. Honda and Hyundai are not what they used to be.
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You do realize that Hyundai and Kia are the same company right? And just about everyone will disagree with the statement Hyundai arent what they used to be. Correct, they’re better than they used to be. They now rival the biggest names in the business, whereas just 10-15 years ago they made CHEAP econobox garbage. Look at Genesis (also Hyundai owned) they are refined and luxurious.
OP: Nissan has a partnership with Renault, they’re awful.
The 2019+ Toyota RAV4s are very nice, get that. Unless you want more than 203 horsepower, then consider the Mazda CX-5 turbo, or the Honda Passport V6. Subaru engines are underpowered, and they are stubbornly sticking to CVT trans, so I rule them out.
None of the above. Buy American.
And what? Get a delicate unreliable drivetrain while simultaneously putting money in the pockets of labor union leftists in Ohio and Michigan? Maybe the plant in Texas where they made my Tacoma was UAW, not sure. But at least I know it stands a good chance of making it to 200k
You do realize that Hyundai and Kia are the same company right? And just about everyone will disagree with the statement Hyundai arent what they used to be. Correct, they’re better than they used to be. They now rival the biggest names in the business, whereas just 10-15 years ago they made CHEAP econobox garbage. Look at Genesis (also Hyundai owned) they are refined and luxurious.
OP: Nissan has a partnership with Renault, they’re awful.
The 2019+ Toyota RAV4s are very nice, get that. Unless you want more than 203 horsepower, then consider the Mazda CX-5 turbo, or the Honda Passport V6. Subaru engines are underpowered, and they are stubbornly sticking to CVT trans, so I rule them out.
I could have posted this as those are my thoughts and observations exactly. Maxda keeps on scoring very high in all that matters. Been looking for the wife's next vehicle and Maxda looks good. FWIW I don't own Mazda but I don't want to keep her Maxima past 90,000 with the CVT.
I could have posted this as those are my thoughts and observations exactly. Maxda keeps on scoring very high in all that matters. Been looking for the wife's next vehicle and Maxda looks good. FWIW I don't own Mazda but I don't want to keep her Maxima past 90,000 with the CVT.
Same here, never owned a Mazda. But a friend of mine since 8 years old, just ditched his Mazda 3 after 11 years and 188k. A/C stopped working recently, that’s all. They seem pretty robust. I’ve been trying to get my wife to warm up to the idea of the new Mazda 3 hatchback with the 2.5L turbo and AWD. Thing should be a rocket pod. “She” will like it, it would be a great vehicle for “her”.
Bodhisattva05X
09-16-20, 13:19
I’ve had two Xterra, (still have the second one), and I say go with Toyota. I drove my first Xterra to 235k when it died driving back from Utah, and my current has 102k on it with hopes to let another 150k out of it. They are great vehicles but require a shit load of maintenance. Granted more so because I off road with it. But still. Toyota has better aftermarket support, and are just built better. I hate how everyone has them, especially in the off roading circles. But there is a reason for that.
Evel Baldgui
09-16-20, 16:10
Toyota or Honda. Period end of sentence.
The new Hyundai are very nice and as stated by above some of the most reliable cars now and with the take over of BMW former Albert Biermann the performance division and N cars are WOW for the money
Ditto Mazda for a drivers car they are one of the better driver cars for cheap(inexpensive equal to competitors options) in handling and road feel while they might miss a touch here or there on what some like As fluff its the balance of putting that money into the road feel
Mazda on base level vs any other base level model would be the drivers car if you test drove them IMHO and loved driving you would go yeah this is NICE ! not fair to compare them to the Hyundai N since its not a base and price is not the same and the N would be my drivers choice but then you have to say no way new buy a used performance car
Honda are nice reliable sadly to me they are just so bland ? But nice for sure and cant go wrong with any of the above
When you want performance nothing still is going to touch Porsche and BMW and MB for luxury performance and that next level handling that one has to know they want and know what they are feeling etc...
Subaru are good but also can have odd little issues sadly but I think they are also a great option with great winter traction and fire road drivability with a unique market sadly its the lottery of will it go bad and with modern warranty if you buy new not a huge deal more a pain also not a fan of the newer nicer interiors of the Subaru
Really only the American cars sadly are mostly junk but a tiny few select are fine but still cant hold to Toyota for reliability
And not all Toyota are perfect but title was SUV shopping and nothing can touch the 4Runner or LC for reliability NOTHING :)
And what? Get a delicate unreliable drivetrain while simultaneously putting money in the pockets of labor union leftists in Ohio and Michigan? Maybe the plant in Texas where they made my Tacoma was UAW, not sure. But at least I know it stands a good chance of making it to 200k
That’s mostly bullshit and you know it.
For those of you raging about funding unions, how much per vehicle do you think goes to the union labor vs the engineering, product development, marketing and sales, IT employees in these companies?
Sure your TOYota is put together in the USA. The line worker slapping on bumpers may make $12 an hour. The engineers are making the real money.
All of the real costs are in Japan and you are paying for platforms and power trains that are famously old.
But hey, it’s your fricken money and you asked.
Delicate power trains? Guess you’ve not driven many American products.
Evel Baldgui
09-16-20, 16:40
Guess you’ve not driven many American products.
I have not purchased an 'American' car in over 25 years. Purchased Ford Expedition several years ago, in summary it was a complete piece of chit. Rented a chevy impala, on holiday and the engine started smoking driving up a mountain to a rental cabin, have had untoward experiences with American made ford, Chrysler GM vehicles all were 'poor' at best. Never had issues German/Jap vehicles. I know you have a flawless ford f150 with 7 million miles and only changed the oil once or a chevy whatever with 5 million trouble free miles, good for you! My experience with GM /Ford is that they are garbage. Broad brush I know, so be it.
MC_Oper8or
09-16-20, 18:14
Data talks, BS walks. American cars never make Consumer Reports recommended list. It's nearly Japanese cars from top to bottom.
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MC_Oper8or
09-16-20, 18:15
I have not purchased an 'American' car in over 25 years. Purchased Ford Expedition several years ago, in summary it was a complete piece of chit. Rented a chevy impala, on holiday and the engine started smoking driving up a mountain to a rental cabin, have had untoward experiences with American made ford, Chrysler GM vehicles all were 'poor' at best. Never had issues German/Jap vehicles. I know you have a flawless ford f150 with 7 million miles and only changed the oil once or a chevy whatever with 5 million trouble free miles, good for you! My experience with GM /Ford is that they are garbage. Broad brush I know, so be it.
When jeep people call it a Ford Exploder, you know your product is garbage.
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HardToHandle
09-16-20, 19:05
My daily driver is a vintage Lexus Gx470. They are slow but boringly reliable. Total truth about terrible gas mileage, which the tax for the V8’s longevity. Check out the depreciation on many of the used Toyota SUVs and trucks, it is similar to Jeep Wranglers, ie minimal.
Since the OP mentioned his wife drives a lot, checkout the RAV4 as an apple to apple comparison to the Escape. I have had a 2019 RAV4, new body style, as a rental... Was really impressed. I have recently owned a 2018 Honda CRV and 2014 Ford Escape as daily commuter cars (I wanted AWD). The new RAV4 seemed to be in a totally different league and the new CVT was impressive on the interstate. Also, there is a great dealer network.
As a recent Honda owner, I am so-so on them. Short of the Odyssey minivan and the souped up Civics, not sure that Honda does anything better than Toyota. They’ve also had some swings and misses with newer four cylinders.
FlyingHunter
09-16-20, 19:15
A 4Runner is kind of a BCM of SUVs. Nissan would be your M&P Sport.
That... Is a really great M4C analogy!
I wonder what a G-Wagon would be...KAC, Accuracy International ??
That... Is a really great M4C analogy!
I wonder what a G-Wagon would be...KAC, Accuracy International ??Salient or Taran.
sandsunsurf
09-16-20, 20:02
Toyota all the way. 4Runner and Land Cruiser are the only ones 100% made in Japan.
A 4Runner is kind of a BCM of SUVs. Nissan would be your M&P Sport.
And a Jeep Grand Cherokee is the Colt?
I had a 2016 Mazda CX-5 as a daily driver, giving me a break from driving and parking the Duramax in the city. I loved the Mazda and it was 100% reliable and comfortable as a commuter and grocery-getter. I traded it in for a Grand Cherokee a couple of months ago. I love the GC, and wouldn't go back to the Mazda. Not sure how the reliability is going to be, but I think it will be fine. I also drove a Cherokee across the country last month and it was a nice driving and slightly more compact version of my GC. Loved it and it got great mileage.
And a Jeep Grand Cherokee is the Colt?
I had a 2016 Mazda CX-5 as a daily driver, giving me a break from driving and parking the Duramax in the city. I loved the Mazda and it was 100% reliable and comfortable as a commuter and grocery-getter. I traded it in for a Grand Cherokee a couple of months ago. I love the GC, and wouldn't go back to the Mazda. Not sure how the reliability is going to be, but I think it will be fine. I also drove a Cherokee across the country last month and it was a nice driving and slightly more compact version of my GC. Loved it and it got great mileage.
Jeep is more in line with DPMS.
Go to dealership row and check out the car rental business nearest- ask which vehicle owners use their services the most- it’s always Jeep!
If Jeep could make anything reliable across the platform I’d be all over it. They just fail over and over and over...
Coal Dragger
09-16-20, 22:01
That’s mostly bullshit and you know it.
For those of you raging about funding unions, how much per vehicle do you think goes to the union labor vs the engineering, product development, marketing and sales, IT employees in these companies?
Sure your TOYota is put together in the USA. The line worker slapping on bumpers may make $12 an hour. The engineers are making the real money.
All of the real costs are in Japan and you are paying for platforms and power trains that are famously old.
But hey, it’s your fricken money and you asked.
Delicate power trains? Guess you’ve not driven many American products.
Sigh. Even a quick Google search yields an average yearly income for a Toyota assembler in a US plant at about $51K/year. Now is that lower than a UAW plant worker would make? Probably, but it’s still well over the national average. So if you’re going to accuse others of knowing posting bullshit, consider cleaning up your own bullshit posts.
Having said that, as a union member myself, I wish the UAW did a better job of marketing their union and earning the membership and union ratification of more plants. Sadly they don’t, for some reason union officials quickly lose their damn minds and forget where they came from when they get elected to the General Chairman’s office and up. It’s a well known phenomenon in about all unions, mine included (BLE-T). At the National and International level those pukes don’t give two shits about the members as long as member dues keep rolling in and kickbacks from management to screw over the rank and file hit their off shore bank accounts promptly and discreetly.
We can bash Toyota for utilizing dated engines and transmissions, but Toyota has a different philosophy on those components than some of their competitors. Look at just about any current Toyota engine and transmission and you find that when introduced they were segment leading in technology, power, efficiency, and reliability. Toyota spends a lot of time and money designing, testing, and producing engines and transmissions that can be market competitive for a long period of time that are also as close dead nuts reliable as possible from the first model year to the end of production. Then they keep making those same engines and transmissions because they worked right from the start and meet customer needs and expectations. Exciting? Nope, but largely Toyota is not marketing based on “new” whiz bang tech, they market on rock solid quality for the long term.
As for delicate engines and transmissions in domestic products, like any other product category we can think of, there are examples and exceptions. The company I work for contracts out train crew transportation to a third party contractor. This third party runs Ford Expeditions and GMC/Chevy Suburbans, these poor rigs see around 400K miles or so before being retired. They idle a lot, they get driven on rough crappy mine roads, and on RR right of way. Crews and their gear in and out all day. The GM’s are unequivocally more reliable under these conditions, and it’s not even close. The first batch of Fords had the 5.4 Triton V8, most of those didn’t last 200K between engine failures or transmissions going out. The HVAC in the Fords fails with more frequency as well, particularly the rear system. The newer 3.5L Ecoboost units are a bit better but still go down for maintenance more often than the GM counterparts, Ford still can’t seem to make a front and rear HVAC system that doesn’t stop working correctly. Meanwhile the old GM’s with the cockroach 5.3L V8 keep running and the HVAC still works most of the time. The cam in block V8 may not be cutting edge or sexy but much like a Toyota engine it is a highly refined design with all the bugs worked out, and they flat out refuse to die. Same for GM 6L80E transmissions in those old trucks.
I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.
I look forward to the contractor we use acquiring some of the GM’s with the 3.0L Duramax, I expect those will be a disaster (because modern diesels are) and help make me lots of overtime waiting on transportation.
SomeOtherGuy
09-16-20, 23:45
I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.
My 2019 5.3L Sub gets 20mpg in ordinary driving, both commuting and on longer trips. Not doing anything special, driving like everyone else, regular 87 octane. Absolutely-freaking-fantastic in a vehicle that weighs 3 tons empty and seats 8. It replaced a Nissan Armada that struggled to get 15 (14 or lower commuting, 16-16.5 on road trips where the Sub always beats 20) and was roughly equivalent in volume and power.
To each their own. We have the 6.0L gas in a HD Chevy pickup and it's better for towing - nothing like a diesel - and gets 12 or so in typical use. Not any faster or more fun when empty. We had a diesel HD before that (Dodge/Cummins 5.9) and the engine was awesome, but once DEF and tier 4 came in, it just didn't seem worth paying $8k upfront. For the overall package, for someone only towing occasionally and NOT living above 5000ft elevation, the 5.3L seems like a good option.
Coal Dragger
09-17-20, 00:23
Nah, 6.2L gives up very little in fuel economy in testing and nets much more useful power. $2500 well spent if you can get just the engine without a more expensive package.
I am biased towards power though, our current family car is a 2015 Chevrolet SS with an LS3. Because, I need 400+ hp in an innocuous looking 4 door.... yeah “need”...
Data talks, BS walks. American cars never make Consumer Reports recommended list. It's nearly Japanese cars from top to bottom.
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Consumers reports is the biggest confirmation bias scam in the history of the universe.
Sigh. Even a quick Google search yields an average yearly income for a Toyota assembler in a US plant at about $51K/year. Now is that lower than a UAW plant worker would make? Probably, but it’s still well over the national average. So if you’re going to accuse others of knowing posting bullshit, consider cleaning up your own bullshit posts.
Bullshit post? Give me a fricken break. The actual numbers aren't important so it was made up. You're arguing like a liberal, the point is still valid as there are many multiples of the cost in the functions I point out and that can't be argued. If the guy slapping the bumper on the vehicle is making $51K what do you think the engineer is making? I'll answer it for you, at a bare minimum double that, in most cases triple it.
Consumers reports is the biggest confirmation bias scam in the history of the universe.
This is Absolutely 100% true.
Toyota is still the answer to the OP’s question.
This is Absolutely 100% true.
I don't use Consumer Reports but what is the scam?
Averageman
09-18-20, 12:59
I thought I wanted an SUV.
I got a Tacoma and put a roof rack and a cap on the bed and couldn't be happier.
Four doors, just enough room and I've slept in the back when hunting.
I think I got a better deal this way.
Anecdotal, but a friend of mine is shopping to replace her Lexus LX SUV. She’s looking at newer Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Tesla, all top of the line stuff that with all the options are going to be in the $85-100k range. She happened to check out the Kia Telluride and was shocked how much she liked it. She’d but their top trim level, but can’t find one in stock to check out first (all the dealers will order it, but she doesn’t want to deal with all that). And that would top out at $50k. She’s going to look at the Hyundai as well.
Sent from 80ms in the future
I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.
Having owned 3 of the 5.3L in an '06 GMC Envoy Denali, '08 Silverado, '12 Yukon XL, all I can say is that these engines are damn near bulletproof.
Coal Dragger
09-18-20, 14:41
I didn’t say they were unreliable, I said they’re gutless.
The 6.2L has literally no disadvantages in comparison aside from a minuscule difference in fuel economy. If that difference in fuel consumption is cost prohibitive for you then I hate to tell you this but you’re too poor to be buying a vehicle with either engine.
I don't use Consumer Reports but what is the scam?
Consumer reports is like TOS- a place for people to go and be cheerleaders to make them feel okay about their buying decisions.
For instance- Behr paint is shite compared to other paints out there, but consumer reports ranks it #1 and there are tons of fanboys preaching that it’s gold.
Consumer reports is a total joke.
I've been driving Tahoes at work since 2007. All year models from 2005 to current. We did have issues in the 08-12 models that came from problems from long idle time could with the cylinder deactivation system. Other than those years they have been pretty reliable vehicles, and I'm not a GM guy.
The new generation 5.3 I wouldn't call gutless. Its not fast, but it isn't slow either. I've been in pursuits with them.
Overall I'm a Toyota guy, but I'd buy a Tahoe if I wanted one.
gunrunner505
09-18-20, 19:53
We had a Sequoia for a couple years. Great truck, lots of power. Had a thimble for a fuel tank so it had zero legs. If you didn’t need the third row of seats it was great. Lots of cargo capacity. If you did need the third row, zero cargo capacity.
We replaced it with a 2011 suburban and it is by far the best truck I’ve ever had. I can put 7 people in it, luggage for a week and still have room. Runs down the highway like a Fleetwood. Long legs. Comfy. And GM aircon is the best you’ll ever find.
However, if Chevy is off your list get a 4Runner. Too bad they don’t offer them with a V8 anymore.
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Infiniti QX80 owner here. Got it used (2015 year) and so far have been pleased. It’s the “limited” trim level, all the options. Retails new for over $85k. So glad I waited and got it used. The 5.6 seems very strong but has the usual terrible gas mileage. Premium gas is recommended but I have put 87 in it and it seems to work just fine. Longer highway trips I can get around 400 miles on a tank, short hops around town.....lucky if I get to 300. Very comfortable and the kids like the movie screens and the heated rear seats. Buying used has its pros and cons but so far it’s been a great vehicle.
Sure your TOYota is put together in the USA. The line worker slapping on bumpers may make $12 an hour. The engineers are making the real money.
All of the real costs are in Japan and you are paying for platforms and power trains that are famously old..
Nah, the 3.5L 2GR-FKS V6 made its debut in 2015 in a Lexus before they started rolling it out into everything, Highlander, Sienna, Tacoma, etc. It has Toyota’s D4S Direct injection self cleaning system, it’s pretty modern engine tech. But yes, I will agree that the 5.7L V8 in the Tundra, Sequoia and Landcruiser is stupid old at this point.
Coal Dragger
09-18-20, 23:35
Stupid old at this point? Yes. When introduced in 2007? The 3UR-FE was class leading and as reliable as an anvil pretty much from roll out to now.
Again the Toyota powertrain strategy for decades is spend the money and time up front to develop a world class product, and then build it for a long time.
Infiniti QX80 owner here. Got it used (2015 year) and so far have been pleased. It’s the “limited” trim level, all the options. Retails new for over $85k. So glad I waited and got it used. The 5.6 seems very strong but has the usual terrible gas mileage. Premium gas is recommended but I have put 87 in it and it seems to work just fine. Longer highway trips I can get around 400 miles on a tank, short hops around town.....lucky if I get to 300. Very comfortable and the kids like the movie screens and the heated rear seats. Buying used has its pros and cons but so far it’s been a great vehicle.
My wife's been looking to upgrade from our Audi Allroad and has been looking at the Q7. I'll tell her to throw the QX80 in the mix. I love my Q50.
My wife's been looking to upgrade from our Audi Allroad and has been looking at the Q7. I'll tell her to throw the QX80 in the mix. I love my Q50.
It’s nicely appointed and comfortable. Worth looking at for sure.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-20-20, 02:18
Why would sonar parking sensors on 4Runners be only available with the Limited? You can get the collision, radar cruise control, lane departure and remote start on pretty much every model- but parking sensors only in the Limited? This will be driven a lot by my kids, and I'm not going to put them in a car with out the parking sensors.
Why would sonar parking sensors on 4Runners be only available with the Limited? You can get the collision, radar cruise control, lane departure and remote start on pretty much every model- but parking sensors only in the Limited? This will be driven a lot by my kids, and I'm not going to put them in a car with out the parking sensors.
They have a list of widgets and doodads that they can install. They have 3-5 trim levels. They have to save some widgets for the top trim level, otherwise why buy it?
Is this system stupid? 100%. I really think Ford is on to something with the Bronco. You can add the Sasquatch package to ANY trim level. Game changing. Also, in my opinion, the “Limited” top trim level should be a “comfort and luxury” package but safety equipment should be standard on all trims.
I think car companies should have one trim, that you add packages to. Any package you want, and you can have multiple.
Vehicle + nothing (base model)
Vehicle + Appearance Pkg (sunroof and different wheels of your choice)
Vehicle + Cold Weather pkg (Heated stuff)
Vehicle + Off-road OR Sport Pkg (suspension, programming, drivetrain changes)
Vehicle + Comfort and Luxury pkg (leather, different stereo, power trunk, whatever else)
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-20-20, 11:50
I agree. Something like parking sensors seem like something that should be across the board. It would be almost criminal to put new drivers in an SUV with out them. At least it has cameras.
I'd get a TRD PRO, or more likely one of their intermediate TRDish models if they had sonar. Just getting the Limited with the parking sonar brings more cost, but it also brings more complexity. I hate moving running boards. The ones on my Escalade are flaky and would never show the problem at the dealer. I really don't like anything with a motor. Auto seats, ugh. Just make a good seat that doesn't need 10 adjustments. Electronic locks are OK, but if you have a good wife/GF they aren't that important. I do like sunroofs. Lots of great weather here in CO, though I have wear a hat now or burn my scalp...
The older I get, the more I want simple vehicles that will last 10 years. My 2015 has 32k miles on it. I don't drive a lot. Right now we'll get a 4Runner because we need a car in the next 6 months. For my 2015, I'll look at the new 4Runners or LC300 (if they come), If they haven't totally screwed them up. Or I might by a 2 year old used last year version of the last generation.
I was looking at the new 'Tahoe' models and to get the 6.2L engine with any kind of basic stuff, I come out at $73-76k. Ouch.
What I don't like on the 15 Escalade with the 3rd row seats is that the cargo area is pitched to the rear. Open the hatch and everything not tied down wants to pour out...
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-26-20, 02:29
So been playing with the Toyota Config.
The TRD OFF ROAD PREMIUM + sun roof, KDSS, rails and probably black rims.
PREMIUM, pretty much as is
TRD-PRO, pretty much as is
The question I have is the TRD OFF ROAD with the KDSS versus the other two (really the TRD-PRO) in terms of on road and off road handlng.
Damn, they get expensive. TRD-PRO for $51k, the TRD off road premium with black rims is over $47. Premiums are just under the TRD-PROs
That Off Road is a pretty good deal, till you start to screw with it. I've heard that the TRD-PROs are hard to find, and may carry a premium !? We have a few months till we really need it.
Have a 2020 TRD PRO. Many of the upsell features are unique to pro but can be added to any taco. The headlights in the 2020+ are huge improvement, almost negates need for aftermarket light bars. 2020+ power driver seat also huge improvement. Fox shocks, lighter rims, TRD exhaust from the factory, 1” higher lift, front camera/off road surround camera, and rear locker were the main trim differences—some of which are also on the off-road. I also like the black out treatment and the hood with the black anti reflective vinyl. The Pro gives you a vehicle you don’t really need to mod, checks most boxes. I wish the camera resolution was better, JBL sound system is meh, gas mileage isn’t amazing. If you do go Tacoma, pay the $100 for transmission TSB update. Truck drives night and day better after the update. Before it felt like torque converter was taking seconds to lock or unlock during shifts which sucked power. The throttle remap was also improvement. Much more responsive all around. If you use CRAWL, the ratcheting can get annoying but it really works! Also if you intend to overland, taco beds are polymer. You’ll need significant reinforcements for the added weight and probably stronger rear springs or front end will aim to the sky.
Nah, the 3.5L 2GR-FKS V6 made its debut in 2015 in a Lexus before they started rolling it out into everything, Highlander, Sienna, Tacoma, etc. It has Toyota’s D4S Direct injection self cleaning system, it’s pretty modern engine tech. But yes, I will agree that the 5.7L V8 in the Tundra, Sequoia and Landcruiser is stupid old at this point.
I need to find the in depth PDF from Toyota on the 3.5 and post, interesting reading on how Atkinson cycle works.
I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.
When I bought my 2018 1500 Silverado, it was a previous year model with a 5.3 and a 6.2 would have been a 2019 and a significant price bump. 355 hp isn't really gutless in my mind, but no doubt the 6.2s are beasts.
My 5.3 has never felt underpowered, although the only reasonably challenging thing I have done with it is drag a small car on a u-haul trailer (maybe 5000 lbs combined) from Alabama to South Dakota.
In my mind, if you want a truck to pull/carry more than a 5.3 will allow, you really need to step up to a 2500.
That being said, I would have snapped up a 6.2 in a heartbeat if the price difference wasn't significant.
Andy
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-26-20, 08:52
Have a 2020 TRD PRO. Many of the upsell features are unique to pro but can be added to any taco. The headlights in the 2020+ are huge improvement, almost negates need for aftermarket light bars. 2020+ power driver seat also huge improvement. Fox shocks, lighter rims, TRD exhaust from the factory, 1” higher lift, front camera/off road surround camera, and rear locker were the main trim differences—some of which are also on the off-road. I also like the black out treatment and the hood with the black anti reflective vinyl. The Pro gives you a vehicle you don’t really need to mod, checks most boxes. I wish the camera resolution was better, JBL sound system is meh, gas mileage isn’t amazing. If you do go Tacoma, pay the $100 for transmission TSB update. Truck drives night and day better after the update. Before it felt like torque converter was taking seconds to lock or unlock during shifts which sucked power. The throttle remap was also improvement. Much more responsive all around. If you use CRAWL, the ratcheting can get annoying but it really works! Also if you intend to overland, taco beds are polymer. You’ll need significant reinforcements for the added weight and probably stronger rear springs or front end will aim to the sky.
Thanks, I was thinking of the 4Runner specifically. I should have made that clear.
If you can hold off a year next generation 4 runner supposed to be out end of 2021 as a 2022. Big changes, more power, better gas mileage. Supposedly still on a truck frame.
Get the pro. Resale value is insane. You’ll be able to sell it basically for what you paid for it in a few years and upgrade to the new 4runner if you like.
The headlights in the 2020+ are huge improvement, almost negates need for aftermarket light bars.
Beam pattern is important but I believe factory lights are still legally limited to 150kcd?
dontshakepandas
11-26-20, 13:28
Get the pro. Resale value is insane. You’ll be able to sell it basically for what you paid for it in a few years and upgrade to the new 4runner if you like.
This.
I have a 2019 4Runner TRD PRO that I had to order and wait a while for, but it wasn’t really difficult and I paid just under MSRP. You may be able to get a few more discounts on the other models, but mine is getting close to two years since I picked it up and I checked the blue book value the other day and it’s the same as what I paid for it.
I drive a 4Runner and the wife drives a Nissan Armada. The Armada has a LOT more, creature comforts, but I like the 4Runner better for its Spartan interior.
Beam pattern is important but I believe factory lights are still legally limited to 150kcd?
They are but high beam in Tacoma is really good after the 2020 update. Puts the light way out there. Wish we could get the Porsche active laser headlights from European models—would drive major changes across industry. I guess it’s our legal/safety framework that’s out of date.
Coal Dragger
11-26-20, 19:50
Probably going to go try to find a Lexus GX 460 here next month, see if I can find a CPO 2018 or 2019.
Since Toyota won’t sell the Land Cruiser Prado here as a Toyota, Prado in Lexus duds it is.
HardToHandle
11-26-20, 20:14
You will like the Lexus. AWD and nicely appointed inside.
The only real downsides are the premium gas and poor gas mileage.
Coal Dragger
11-26-20, 20:29
I suspect the compression ratio of the 4.6L 1UR-FE doesn’t actually require premium fuel.
I already daily a 2007 Tundra with the 5.7L and our other car is a 2015 Chevrolet SS. So we’re no strangers to less than stellar mileage, and really I don’t care much about it.
Coal Dragger
11-26-20, 20:40
A quick check shows the 4.6L 1UR-FE has an identical 10.2:1 static compression ratio to the 5.7L 3UR-FE in the Tundra. You don’t need to use premium fuel with a modern fuel injected engine running 10.2:1 compression. The same 4.6L was used in the Tundra and didn’t need premium fuel.
Incidentally the heads are also identical, so identical combustion chambers, bore diameter is identical at 94mm. The 3UR-FE gets the extra displacement through a longer stroke. I’ll bet the pistons are identical too.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-27-20, 10:08
If you can hold off a year next generation 4 runner supposed to be out end of 2021 as a 2022. Big changes, more power, better gas mileage. Supposedly still on a truck frame.
We need a car in a next few months. Kid at a HS 15 miles away, and we are tired of dragging him back and forth. I also worrry about a 1st year new model. I know that he'll be able to keep this 10 years if he wants. Or after he gets out of college, use it as second car/dedicated 4x4.
When you get a moon roof and KDSS on a Venture 4runner, or put rims on a Off Road/Premium, you are about $5k from a full TRD PRO. As long as we don't get gouged on a PRO, it does make sense. As the last year of the model, I'm guessing the resale will hold pretty good. Funny to think that we could be driving a '2010' tech SUV in 2030...
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-27-20, 14:51
Went to a Toyota dealership today. What an underwhelming experience. They don’t even sell cars.
We walked out to the forerunners, talked models for about 30 seconds. He got a pair of keys and the keys and then said goodbye. Didn’t even give us a walk around the car or anything.
He didn’t even want to sell me a TRD pro. He said they’re expensive and then they add on 5 to 10 grand.
Coal Dragger
11-27-20, 15:56
Similar experience earlier this month at a Lexus dealer in Lincoln, NE.
The kid I was talking to kept insisting that a GX460 is front wheel drive until the rear needs power. He basically knew nothing about his product. Needless to say I didn’t do business with that clueless muppet.
Went to a Toyota dealership today. What an underwhelming experience. They don’t even sell cars.
We walked out to the forerunners, talked models for about 30 seconds. He got a pair of keys and the keys and then said goodbye. Didn’t even give us a walk around the car or anything.
He didn’t even want to sell me a TRD pro. He said they’re expensive and then they add on 5 to 10 grand.
That sucks dude. I dont know how far you are willing to travel for a new car but the Toyota dealers here in Phoenix are willing to sell the TRD Pro models at a realistic price. My friend recently picked up a 2020 TRD Pro Tundra crewmax for 48k. MSRP was 53k.
Coal Dragger
11-27-20, 18:40
The dealer in my area (closest is Rapid City) has at least one TRD Pro 4Runner in stock. They’ve been good to deal with in years past for me.
Similar experience earlier this month at a Lexus dealer in Lincoln, NE.
The kid I was talking to kept insisting that a GX460 is front wheel drive until the rear needs power. He basically knew nothing about his product. Needless to say I didn’t do business with that clueless muppet.
HAHAHA. I remember when I bought my Tundra the salesman during the test drive told me the Tundra had a CVT transmission.
I have a 96 Taco with 300,000+ miles and it looks and acts like a truck with 30,000 miles. Now the guy that owned it before me, never put anything in it but Toyota factory parts and is a mechanic and it was in pristine shape so I dont take any credit.
But Toyota is very reliable and holds value very well. If I bought a new truck today it would be a F150, but I love my Taco.
PB
Coal Dragger
11-27-20, 18:52
My wife was furious with at how I started demeaning that kid after his idiotic comment on how the AWD system worked.
I bet him that the GX not only wasn’t FWD, but that it had a default torque bias to the rear axle because that how the Torsen center differential is set up. Told him if he was right I would buy the vehicle for asking price right now, but if he was wrong I’d still buy it, but for $10K off the tag hanging from the mirror.
He didn’t want to take the bet.
Went to a Toyota dealership today. What an underwhelming experience. They don’t even sell cars.
We walked out to the forerunners, talked models for about 30 seconds. He got a pair of keys and the keys and then said goodbye. Didn’t even give us a walk around the car or anything.
He didn’t even want to sell me a TRD pro. He said they’re expensive and then they add on 5 to 10 grand.
Similar experience earlier this month at a Lexus dealer in Lincoln, NE.
The kid I was talking to kept insisting that a GX460 is front wheel drive until the rear needs power. He basically knew nothing about his product. Needless to say I didn’t do business with that clueless muppet.My kind of dealerships. Give me the keys and go away! If I'm looking at a car I already know why. Don't care if the salesman thinks it's unicycle. I just want to drive it to make sure I actually like it. If a question comes up I'll ask!
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This is why car nervana is a big hit. I never thought buying a car like a can of Sprite would be exactly the same experience, but it is and can be.
They have show rooms in 10 story stores. You just Pre qualifying then choose your car. Done.
This is why car nervana is a big hit. I never thought buying a car like a can of Sprite would be exactly the same experience, but it is and can be.
They have show rooms in 10 story stores. You just Pre qualifying then choose your car. Done.Carvana. Like a giant vending machine
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FromMyColdDeadHand
11-28-20, 13:18
My kind of dealerships. Give me the keys and go away! If I'm looking at a car I already know why. Don't care if the salesman thinks it's unicycle. I just want to drive it to make sure I actually like it. If a question comes up I'll ask!
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This is why car nervana is a big hit. I never thought buying a car like a can of Sprite would be exactly the same experience, but it is and can be.
They have show rooms in 10 story stores. You just Pre qualifying then choose your car. Done.
I told my wife that this is what the internet has done to car sales. The lack of salesmanship I kind of expected, but when it came down to parsing out inventory and ordering, we were sitting at a desk with a computer, but he left for 5 min and came back with one print out of something that was pretty far from what we wanted. I almost felt like he thought we didn't have the cash to buy it? I did make my wife not wear her diamond bezeled Rolex at home and her engangement ring (not kidding), but I did brush my teeth.
The funny thing is that my wife wants a new iWatch and I was looking to upgrade my phone to a new 12ProMax, and we went to Best Buy and A verizon store and came home empty handed. Ignored at Best Buy and an utter lack of stock choices at the Verizon store. We were looking to spend like $50k yesterday and came home with nothing.
I told my wife that this is what the internet has done to car sales. The lack of salesmanship I kind of expected, but when it came down to parsing out inventory and ordering, we were sitting at a desk with a computer, but he left for 5 min and came back with one print out of something that was pretty far from what we wanted. I almost felt like he thought we didn't have the cash to buy it? I did make my wife not wear her diamond bezeled Rolex at home and her engangement ring (not kidding), but I did brush my teeth.
The funny thing is that my wife wants a new iWatch and I was looking to upgrade my phone to a new 12ProMax, and we went to Best Buy and A verizon store and came home empty handed. Ignored at Best Buy and an utter lack of stock choices at the Verizon store. We were looking to spend like $50k yesterday and came home with nothing.
I think this goes for anything now. Do you need a salesman for clothes? Al Bundy?
It's expensive to keep cars on the lot. (New car dealer). If they don't have what you want they basically order it.
I stick to used cars. Don't believe in new for the simple fact that I don't like overpaying for stuff I have no interest in, will never use, and don't particularly understand. To put it in perspective....I haven't changed my radio station in 15 years! It's just background noise. Forget about cassette or even CD! Don't need power seats because A.... mechanical is faster. And B..... regardless of the car the seat goes all the way back and stays there until I sell it to the next owner. Paying for a button that will be used one time is like setting cash on fire, to me! I've had 4 cars with sunroofs and only ever opened them to make sure they work and there's no surprises! If I could select the options I want in a vehicle it would be something along the lines of the old military Chevy Blazers. Steering wheel, seating for 4-5 and some sort of a thing that makes noise in the form of music for background noise. Don't even need carpets. But that's just me. So when I buy a new (to me) car I already looked into what I want and how I want it. Salesman isn't needed.
I stand corrected. Copy that. It's amazing to me.
I have a 96 Taco with 300,000+ miles and it looks and acts like a truck with 30,000 miles. Now the guy that owned it before me, never put anything in it but Toyota factory parts and is a mechanic and it was in pristine shape so I dont take any credit.
But Toyota is very reliable and holds value very well. If I bought a new truck today it would be a F150, but I love my Taco.
PB
This. Why people buy Tacoma’s or 4Runners is beyond me. “BuT tHe ReeeeSaLe Valeeww!” Yeah, but you’re paying for it up front, just to get it on the back end. They do nothing well. Can’t haul. Can’t tow. Tech from 1985. Shit gas mileage They do make you cool with Garand Thumb and the Instagram Overlanding crowd, though.
I was in the same predicament and chose to get an F-150. 2017 Platinum FX4. 5.0. All options. Drove 150 miles yesterday at 85 mph getting 17.9mpg. And I can tow. And my interior is huge. And I have a bed I can actually put stuff in.
I also don’t think I’d buy a new car if I was a millionaire. It’s one of the poorest financial decisions you can make. I have no idea why people do it.
Probably going to go try to find a Lexus GX 460 here next month, see if I can find a CPO 2018 or 2019.
Since Toyota won’t sell the Land Cruiser Prado here as a Toyota, Prado in Lexus duds it is.
I picked up a 2017 CPO premium package GX460 for my wife and it’s a great truck so far. It was very very reasonably priced after some haggling and horse trading.
I need to replace my 03 Tacoma with something that can fit three car seats but still hit the mountains of Oregon. I’m down to a GX460 or an F-150 with the 5.0. I drove an F-150 and loved the space but it just seems like such a big vehicle. The GX460 seems like it would fit in the woods better but I’m not sure I want something that takes premium gas. Right now this will be 90% daily driven but I’m unwilling to give up the capability of a real 4x4. I’m 6’4” and the current Tacoma/4Runner don’t give the same space as a GX.
This. Why people buy Tacoma’s or 4Runners is beyond me. “BuT tHe ReeeeSaLe Valeeww!” Yeah, but you’re paying for it up front, just to get it on the back end. They do nothing well. Can’t haul. Can’t tow. Tech from 1985. Shit gas mileage They do make you cool with Garand Thumb and the Instagram Overlanding crowd, though.
I was in the same predicament and chose to get an F-150. 2017 Platinum FX4. 5.0. All options. Drove 150 miles yesterday at 85 mph getting 17.9mpg. And I can tow. And my interior is huge. And I have a bed I can actually put stuff in.
I also don’t think I’d buy a new car if I was a millionaire. It’s one of the poorest financial decisions you can make. I have no idea why people do it.
What if you don't care about towing or Instagram or touch screens or integration with all the cell phones in the family and just want something 4x4, reliable that goes point A - B and retain value?! Oh and my 4Runner gets on avg 20mpg with a mix of city/highway daily driving. Not bad for a 4ltr 4x4 with over 100k miles
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Averageman
11-28-20, 17:58
I met a local car Salesman, we talked about cars a while while having a beer.
I told him what I was looking for gave him my card with some notes on the back and got a call a week or two later, bought a used cherry red Mustang GT and kept in touch, six months later I traded that one in bought a used 2018 Mustang GT. Now I have a friend for life. Each time they were excellent vehicles, each time they were at or under blue book and yet immaculate.
When my Son went back to College we had a talk and I asked for a used Tacoma. Two days later I had my choice of three.
The guy has been good to me, although I am sure he is doing well, I have a bottle of Johnnie Walker for him this Christmas.
Also, I'm guessing living in what is essentially the biggest Army Fort in the world a lot of repo's happen and these deals can be made available.
The GX460 seems like it would fit in the woods better but I’m not sure I want something that takes premium gas.
You missed this?
A quick check shows the 4.6L 1UR-FE has an identical 10.2:1 static compression ratio to the 5.7L 3UR-FE in the Tundra. You don’t need to use premium fuel with a modern fuel injected engine running 10.2:1 compression. The same 4.6L was used in the Tundra and didn’t need premium fuel.
Incidentally the heads are also identical, so identical combustion chambers, bore diameter is identical at 94mm. The 3UR-FE gets the extra displacement through a longer stroke. I’ll bet the pistons are identical too.
My Boss has two GXs A 2004 (since 2007) and a 2017 (bought new). He doesn't use premium gas. Never had a problem
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HardToHandle
11-28-20, 19:03
I need to replace my 03 Tacoma with something that can fit three car seats but still hit the mountains of Oregon. I’m down to a GX460 or an F-150 with the 5.0. I drove an F-150 and loved the space but it just seems like such a big vehicle. The GX460 seems like it would fit in the woods better but I’m not sure I want something that takes premium gas. Right now this will be 90% daily driven but I’m unwilling to give up the capability of a real 4x4. I’m 6’4” and the current Tacoma/4Runner don’t give the same space as a GX.
I drive a Lexus GX. You sound like you want a F150.
The GX is narrow and that back seat needs a fully functional kid.
Coal Dragger
11-28-20, 20:24
I need to replace my 03 Tacoma with something that can fit three car seats but still hit the mountains of Oregon. I’m down to a GX460 or an F-150 with the 5.0. I drove an F-150 and loved the space but it just seems like such a big vehicle. The GX460 seems like it would fit in the woods better but I’m not sure I want something that takes premium gas. Right now this will be 90% daily driven but I’m unwilling to give up the capability of a real 4x4. I’m 6’4” and the current Tacoma/4Runner don’t give the same space as a GX.
I posted on the premium gas thing earlier, but suffice to say the 1UR-FE in the GX is the same as the 1UR-FE that was in the Tundra, and Land Cruiser Prado. Just as the 3UR-FE in the LX is the same as the 3UR-FE in the Tundra, Land Cruiser, and Sequoia.
Lexus recommends premium fuel in their trucks and Toyota’s running the same exact engine function just the same with 87 octane.
Why Lexus does this is probably marketing, it’s a premium vehicle and takes premium fuel. The sad thing is a lot of the owners are convinced they must follow the owners manual. They’re the same ones who would also probably freak out if *gasp!* an oil filter for a Toyota in a Toyota box were to be used for an oil change on their Lexus.
MountainRaven
11-28-20, 21:17
My 12 year old GX gets, generally, 16 mpg. When I spend a lot of time on the highway it goes up to 18-20 mpg.
I generally feed it Premium, but I also feed my beloved mutt Fromm, and refuse to buy anything steel case that isn't a combloc caliber - even my Glocks get brass case.
Coal,
I did see your post about Premium vs Regular. I also read a long thread or two on some other sites debating the issue. It started to remind me of 9mm vs .45 threads from 10 years ago. The F-150 seemed like such a big vehicle compared to my little truck when I test drove one. It seemed like way too much when 90% of the time I didn’t need that much vehicle. The stupid thing is any F-150 made in the last ten years probably gets better mileage than my Taco. The lift and 33” tires hoses my MPG.
I was really interested in a LC100 until I found out about the issue with the brake booster going out. 4Runners just don’t have the headroom I need. That is how I came up with the GX. I read that you could fit three car seats across the second row. I was planning on storage drawers in the back in place of the third row seats.
Coal Dragger
11-29-20, 00:26
I didn’t see any latch points in the center of the 2nd row in the GX.
Otherwise the GX is basically functionally what the 4Runner should be body wise. Taller greenhouse gives a lot more room inside for tall guys.
Latch only works up to like 40lbs and then you have to use the belt anyways. Once number three gets here, the other two won’t be able to use a latch system for their seats. We have a van as a primary mover so this vehicle only “needs” to fit everyone for Camping or trips to the snow. We had a CRV that did great in snow but the van is FWD only and I don’t have the same faith in it as the CRV.
Coal Dragger
11-29-20, 01:38
Ah gotcha.
Yeah here soon my 3 year old will be out of the car seat and into a booster anyway.
We have my 2007 Tundra, a 2015 Chevrolet SS (hilarious car), and a little Scion tC that was my wife’s first ever new car. Need another 4 door that is inclement weather capable, the SS doesn’t get along with snow.
The inbound baby really makes finding a bad weather vehicle much harder. Heck a family of five over four has lots of logistical challenges but hey you don’t have kids because they are convenient. They all cost time, money and sanity but hearing the cries of “Daddy” when I walk through the door at night is totally worth it.
The inbound baby really makes finding a bad weather vehicle much harder. Heck a family of five over four has lots of logistical challenges but hey you don’t have kids because they are convenient. They all cost time, money and sanity but hearing the cries of “Daddy” when I walk through the door at night is totally worth it.
I have my 3rd on the way as well and haven’t quite figured out the vehicle situation yet. So I’ve been following this with interest.
I’m down to a 4Runner and an F150. I want the F150 but I think the 4Runner makes more sense. We’re finishing up our fixer upper starter home, and the F150 would be easier for that and when I go hunting. But I can borrow my father in laws truck for the occasional Home Depot run and hunting is a few times a year.
I’m looking very used because the price of new vehicles is nuts and not my idea of a good investment.
Coal Dragger
11-30-20, 17:18
If you’re looking at older “very used” vehicles Toyota is usually a good bet.
I have my 3rd on the way as well and haven’t quite figured out the vehicle situation yet. So I’ve been following this with interest.
I’m down to a 4Runner and an F150. I want the F150 but I think the 4Runner makes more sense. We’re finishing up our fixer upper starter home, and the F150 would be easier for that and when I go hunting. But I can borrow my father in laws truck for the occasional Home Depot run and hunting is a few times a year.
I’m looking very used because the price of new vehicles is nuts and not my idea of a good investment.
Look at a Lex GX or a Toy Sequoia. The runner just isn’t quite large enough for 3+, in my world atleast.
I ran runners hard for over a decade and when the family outgrew them I switched to a sequoia for me and a sienna for the wife.
The sequoia is basically a 4runner on steroids and meth- minus some of the trail prowess But with a ton more creature comfort.
I love the 5.7 V8, although gas mileage is pretty much the least important thing on my list, even though I drive A LOT.
I’ve got a 2010 Platinum with 170K and it’s running strong. I do scheduled maintenance and treat her right.
She’ll go a long time.
Look at a Lex GX or a Toy Sequoia. The runner just isn’t quite large enough for 3+, in my world atleast.
I ran runners hard for over a decade and when the family outgrew them I switched to a sequoia for me and a sienna for the wife.
The sequoia is basically a 4runner on steroids and meth- minus some of the trail prowess But with a ton more creature comfort.
I love the 5.7 V8, although gas mileage is pretty much the least important thing on my list, even though I drive A LOT.
I’ve got a 2010 Platinum with 170K and it’s running strong. I do scheduled maintenance and treat her right.
She’ll go a long time.I always thought the Sequoia was a GX. Like the Camry/ES, Avalon/LS and the Highlander/RX
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MountainRaven
11-30-20, 21:08
I always thought the Sequoia was a GX. Like the Camry/ES, Avalon/LS and the Highlander/RX
Nope. The GX is the Land Cruiser Prado, which is not imported into the US... except as the GX.
I believe the Sequoia is assembled in the US and based on the Tundra.
Nope. The GX is the Land Cruiser Prado, which is not imported into the US... except as the GX.
I believe the Sequoia is assembled in the US and based on the Tundra.
Correct, the Sequoia is the sister SUV to the Tundra and made in Princeton, Indiana.
Funny story- I got tired of my BIL always talking about “American Made” trucks are the best and them “Jap trucks” suck- so I Politely pointed out that his F-150 was made in Mexico and my Sequoia is made in America and asked how many times he’s had it in the shop for repairs...
He shut up rather quickly.
I'm a Toyota fan.
Corolla
240Z
510
Celica
Tacoma
4Runner
I just could not get miles out of Datsun / Nissan.
Repairs were pretty basic and easy for either side until the "oh no, not that" variety which seemed to show up 100K miles before the Toyota.
Look at a Lex GX or a Toy Sequoia. The runner just isn’t quite large enough for 3+, in my world atleast.
I ran runners hard for over a decade and when the family outgrew them I switched to a sequoia for me and a sienna for the wife.
The sequoia is basically a 4runner on steroids and meth- minus some of the trail prowess But with a ton more creature comfort.
I love the 5.7 V8, although gas mileage is pretty much the least important thing on my list, even though I drive A LOT.
I’ve got a 2010 Platinum with 170K and it’s running strong. I do scheduled maintenance and treat her right.
She’ll go a long time.
It’s funny you mention that. A friend of mine just sold his 4Runner for a Sequoia and loves it. The main reason I’ve been looking at 4Runners is there’s a lot more of them available on the used market, but you make some good points and I hate vehicle shopping so I don’t want to outgrow this quickly. Thanks for the advice.
rdcwannabe
12-02-20, 11:23
If you’re looking at older “very used” vehicles Toyota is usually a good bet.
This is extremely true. However, I had an old Datsun that would go anywhere on little to no fuel, oil, or water. Seriously, the thing was fueled by hate and nicotine.
Another vote for Toyota, I have Tacoma that just hit 300K and runs as strong as when I got it. My brother has had 2 4 runners over the last couple decades, no issues including one that ran to 645K before he put in a rebuilt engine and sold it.
1_click_off
12-04-20, 20:27
I have had a few yota’s.
1 Tacoma
3 Tundras
1 Camry
3 Highlanders
And just picked up a 4Runner today.
And a few Nissans.
98 frontier
Titan 05
pathfinder 05-06
Issues:
Titan: The brake calipers froze up after a brake change. I will take the blame on that as I think I reseated the pistons too far/hard.
Electric pusher fan.
Frontier: Timing chain guide failed at 174k. New valves, chain and guides and I rode another 50k miles until 5th gear just let go while cruising to work. When I left work I discovered 5th and reverse must be tied together somehow because I had neither.
Pathfinder:
Front wheel bearings at 135k
Electric pusher fan at 120k
The 14 Tundra had a fuel pump that would lose pressure and throw every light on the dash and disable traction control and everything. Repaired under warranty.
The only thing that concerned me today with the 4Runner is the new interlinking and tracking capabilities of the new Toyota’s. This was on the overhead console....
Vehicle Data Transmission is On! Your vehicle wirelessly transmits location, driving and vehicle health data to deliver your services and for internal research analysis. See Toyota privacy blah blah blah or to disable press SOS button.
To test to see if the truck had a cellular modem or function, I hit the location assist and it connected to a call service and I told them where I wanted to go (spoke to an actual human) and they entered the info into the built in navigation system and I could either hit GO or Save for later. I did this prior to linking a phone, so it has its own cellular device.
Adrenaline_6
12-10-20, 08:54
I just saw an article on a million mile Tundra engine. It made more power than a new one and taking it apart they found it almost pristine. Cross hatch in the cylinder bore could still be seen and there was one scratch on a crank bearing. Craziness.
I just saw an article on a million mile Tundra engine. It made more power than a new one and taking it apart they found it almost pristine. Cross hatch in the cylinder bore could still be seen and there was one scratch on a crank bearing. Craziness.Check out the article on the 1 million mile LS400! Transmission was changed after 780k miles, engine kept going
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Coal Dragger
12-10-20, 17:29
That is some very impressive metallurgical engineering going on there.
I do low voltage type work and have done a bunch for the Toyota plants here in the US. They make the engines for the Tacomas and Tundras in Huntsville AL, and have a huge plant in KY for full assembly of some cars (don't remember which ones.) They employ a ton of Americans and have a great environment. They are non-Union.
I also bid on some work for GM and lost it to the local union electrician who bid 5x my number. My 4Runner also got a ticket while parked on the GM property because it was a foreign car.
Unionized American auto manufacturing is a disgrace.
My feeling exactly- UAW is a major contributor to the DNC. They, and their associated auto makers, are as american as the CCP. Not a penny from me. And yes, I do keep track of business that is unionized, and will not spend my money there.
Have had excellent with Toyota. Very dependable, little maintenance required. Almost 300K on one vehicle we have.
Coal Dragger
12-11-20, 11:17
My feeling exactly- UAW is a major contributor to the DNC. They, and their associated auto makers, are as american as the CCP. Not a penny from me. And yes, I do keep track of business that is unionized, and will not spend my money there.
OK.
Well better not buy anything at all then.
I work for a large RR. I’m a union member. We haul pretty much anything you can think of, from raw materials to finished goods. Including foreign and domestic cars from union and non union plants.
Go ahead use you logic. Enjoy walking. No shoes though, we haul those too.
“tomorrow we start shopping for a new ride - mid-sized SUV. Nissan or Toyota (or maybe Honda?). She travels a LOT - so if nothing else, who has more dealerships out there - just in case her luck continues:)
Coal Dragger, amazing how threads drift.
BLUF: I just went through this process and bought a 2021 Mazda CX 5 Signature with all the bells and whistles. I traded in a 2016 CX 5 GT that was top of the line 5 years ago. In my n of 1 experience (I’m not counting my new CX 5 as I purchased it just 2 days ago), Mazda CUVs/SUVs have a significant edge over the competition (based on my needs). Because your wife now has an Escape, it seems as if a 4Runner or pick-up--or even a mid-size--might not be a good match. My 2016 CX 5 won me over completely during the time I had it.
That brings me to my main point: you know that it is a decision based on your wife’s needs first (all else is secondary because no vehicle checks all the boxes for everyone). There are always tradeoffs. I spent hours on YouTube taking in car reviews and I found it helpful. There are shills and uninformed yahoos and some pretty thoughtful reviews. What I looked for was consistent themes.
I’d suggest that your wife create a “must have” and “nice to have list” first. This can be tangible features (# of seats, safety, cargo capacity, Nav, Apple CarPlay/Android, FWD/AWD, snow performance, etc.) and the less tangible and highly personal “features” such as steering, road feel, ride, driving experience, interior/exterior styling. Reliability is something you can find on the internet and resources like CR. At least CR publishes their methodology, regardless of what folks might think of their overall product/ethics. That being said, Toyota (or their affiliate—Lexus) seems to always come out near the top. Mazda has recently been recognized for their reliability scores. If you want something that will go 300+K miles, Toyota probably has the best track record based on what I've read. If that's not your plan, then other features may play a larger role in your decision-making priorities.
Single sample experiences are fraught with availability bias, “ . . . my BIL had a Toyota, and it was a steaming pile of ______ . . .” Statistical probabilities are a real thing.
I’ve rented 20+ vehicles over the past few years for 1-4 weeks at a time and I intentionally used this experience to try out Jeeps (Cherokees, Compasses), Nissans (mainly Rogues), KIAs, Hyndais, Subarus (Forester), and even a Cadillac SUV. I knew that I’d be purchasing a new car in 2020 so I used these opportunities to see if something impressed me enough to move away from the CX 5. None of these came close to the performance of the CX 5 (for my needs).
I test drove a 2021 Toyota RAV4 TRD and Nissan Rogue just to make sure that their latest iterations hadn’t upped their driving experience game. Although they were incrementally better than before, when I test drove the ‘21 Signature I knew I was going to stay with Mazda. For me, performance, driving experience and a plush interior with solid tech were at the top of my check list. Cargo space, # of seats, gas mileage, and mild off-road capabilities were not a factor.
You say that your wife drives a lot. The Mazda is the sector leader in driving experience IMO. It is simply a great handling vehicle with a lot of get up and go with the turbo. Cargo capacity is its biggest deficiency, I think. That being said, if your wife wouldn’t notice the difference between 187, 203, or 250 HP with accompanying torque impacts and not be remotely sensitive to the perceived differences between an automatic and a CVT, then the “needs” list can get shorter.
For context, our family has had 5 Subaru Outbacks, a Forester, and 2 Toyota Highlanders. In the 70s I had Chevy pickups and a peppy VW sedan in West Germany when I was in the army. I have to say that I really like how the new RA4 TRD looks, but the driving experience, ride, and power were lacking compared to the CX 5.
Test drives are really important to me and I insist on trying out candidates on a variety of road types. I try to schedule them in 1-2 days so the impression of each is fresh.
I hope this helps.
We just finished our car buying (hopefully for a while). Son wrecked mom's 2004 G35 coupe so our plans to buy her a new car in 2023 got changed.
We were going to buy not lease and we we agreed on a certified preowned lease return, 2018~2020 model years.
She had her list of wants, must haves, and "it would be nice if" list. We drove an Audi Q3, Subaru Outback, Subaru Forester, Infiniti Q30, Nissan Rogue, and Mazda MX5. I agree that the MX5 was a strong show. My preference was the Subaru Forester, but the Mazda was nice.
Then my wife saw and drove a 2019 Volvo XC40. Game over for her. That was what she wanted. Went home. Did some homework. Made an offer. Bought the car. The CostCo Auto Program for members was a good resource.
Volvo, it's like a Ferrari, but different.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NWHafcgCL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
Great story, Mrbreiler.
I built a new 2021 XC40 online and with all the add-ons I wanted it was $6-7K more than the CX5 so I talked myself out of a test drive! I'll bet it is a sweet driver.
These days, I like Toyota and Honda vehicles for my needs.
Biggy,
I really liked a lot about the RAV4 TRD I drove. The tranny seemed to be well mated to the available engine power. The salesman commented that it has nearly the same cargo capacity as the original Highlander that I bought in ~2002--which itself is of course now larger. I also think the RAV4 AWD system is very capable for the category. You are spot on, there is no single right choice for everyone--
Great story, Mrbreiler.
I built a new 2021 XC40 online and with all the add-ons I wanted it was $6-7K more than the CX5 so I talked myself out of a test drive! I'll bet it is a sweet driver.
A new 2021 was out of our budget, but I was able to track down the clean 2019 with decent miles that kept us where we needed to be. The CPO program is solid and for a few extra $, we have factory coverage to 2028 so I'm feeling comfortable about it.
I made enough money on selling 9mm and 5.56 ammo in the last three months, I decided it was time for a new ride. Decided on a 2021 Toyota RAV4 XLE Premium trim AWD. I narrowed it down to either a Honda CRV or a RAV4. While I preferred the looks of the RAV4 just a little more than than the CRV, I also wanted an engine with no turbo and no CVT tranny. The RAV4 has an 8 speed automatic tranny and gets 29 mpg.
While the power of the RAV4 and Honda CRV are adequate for most people, you won’t be winning many races with them, but *to me* their 29 mpg more than makes up for it. I have only had it for three weeks, but so far I really like it and have had no issues with it or regrets about my choice. It was the right choice for me.
https://i.imgur.com/QEQhuevl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gTMGKepl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ax5nGihl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0BtPV3ll.jpg
MountainRaven
12-16-20, 21:54
Might wanna redact your license plate, there.
HardToHandle
12-16-20, 21:59
Had a few rental RAV4s, likely 2020s. Really liked them.
At the time, I was daily driving a 2018 Honda CRV.
You choose well.
I found the ergonomics on the RAV4 to be way well refined for me. They didn’t look great at first to me, but a few hours in... Impressed. Good handling, good acceleration and overall a refined ride that felt bigger than actual vehicles’ size.
I have a '08 Toyota FJ Cruiser, 185,000 miles and shows no sign of slowing down. So Toyota for me all the way. I like the looks of the Jeep but since it's a Chrysler it's a non-starter. My brother in law really likes his Mazda's but they don't make a truck like SUV. If I suddenly had to replace the FJ it would be with something Toyota.
https://i.imgur.com/0BtPV3ll.jpg
Nice camouflage.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-10-21, 16:27
Nissan or Toyota- Not the OP, but we got really close to a 4Runner, but the lack of an AWD option and some of the advanced, and even simple safety like parking sensors on all but the Limited 4Runner killed it. Lots of high speed driving here in CO with spotty ice and snow coverage, so we needed full time 4wd that would handle 50mph +.
Ended up with a Jeep Sahara with the Sky roof and the Selec-trac and pretty much every option. Had to order it, so it will be awhile. This will be our 3rd car, and mainly for the kids to move themselves around.
I was rooting for a 4Runner for long lived, the Jeep will probably end up being a toy for us after the kids leave.
If we got a 4Runner, I was thinking about a 392 Jeep, but since we are getting a Jeep, I'll look at the next gen 4Runner.
Nissan or Toyota- Not the OP, but we got really close to a 4Runner, but the lack of an AWD option and some of the advanced, and even simple safety like parking sensors on all but the Limited 4Runner killed it. Lots of high speed driving here in CO with spotty ice and snow coverage, so we needed full time 4wd that would handle 50mph +.
Ended up with a Jeep Sahara with the Sky roof and the Selec-trac and pretty much every option. Had to order it, so it will be awhile. This will be our 3rd car, and mainly for the kids to move themselves around.
I was rooting for a 4Runner for long lived, the Jeep will probably end up being a toy for us after the kids leave.
If we got a 4Runner, I was thinking about a 392 Jeep, but since we are getting a Jeep, I'll look at the next gen 4Runner.
What are you talking about? The 4runner is equipped with selectIon of- 2WD, 4WD HI and 4WD LO.
4HI can go any speed the truck can go.
You may have misinterpreted the instructions of the system only being able to engage and disengage below 50 MPH.
1_click_off
01-10-21, 19:02
Big difference in 4wd and AWD. 4wd hi on dry road could damage all kinds of parts during a turn.
Nissan or Toyota- Not the OP, but we got really close to a 4Runner, but the lack of an AWD option and some of the advanced, and even simple safety like parking sensors on all but the Limited 4Runner killed it. Lots of high speed driving here in CO with spotty ice and snow coverage, so we needed full time 4wd that would handle 50mph +.
Ended up with a Jeep Sahara with the Sky roof and the Selec-trac and pretty much every option. Had to order it, so it will be awhile. This will be our 3rd car, and mainly for the kids to move themselves around.
I was rooting for a 4Runner for long lived, the Jeep will probably end up being a toy for us after the kids leave.
If we got a 4Runner, I was thinking about a 392 Jeep, but since we are getting a Jeep, I'll look at the next gen 4Runner.
recently sold our 2016 4runner it replaced a 2007 FJC
now driving a VW Golf wagen which is more what we are doing these days taking kids around and not as much off roading also I was for years heavy into expedition camping and had a conqueror trailer from South Africa etc... but these days more into ultra light and trying to get further back as so many are into the overlanding thing and are sadly trash people in general as in no cat holes in the BLM areas and leave trash all over do not care etc... not all because there are some awesome people but the new ones seem to be this way so going to do more hike in and get away as they are to lazy to walk a few miles :)
also the wagen can haul our camping stuff since its smaller lighter than it used to be quite easily
I hear ya on the AWD I worked a season at Vail and then Breckenridge teaching boarding way back in the day and AWD anyday over 4WD
to me some of the new AWD rigs are so good for general use and superior for daily ALSO so much land is so accessible with good grading and so on around us the true 4D use is limited to places that are the destination as in just to go 4 wheeling not needed to get to places anymore I feel
I keep thinking I kinda want to put money instead into a nice trailer and a side by side to do any FUN off roading and if it breaks tow it back to trail head trailer it back home and not kill my daily driver the new side by sides the top end ones are freaking insane to insane travel some are setup as crawlers now !! and with the money I had into my FJ and started to with the 4RUnner you can buy a nice side by side and its more made for that kinda stuff
I am not a jeep guy :) but I do like them and the one nice thing is tons and tons and tons of aftermarket and forums and support so solid option bet its going to be a blast to have :) had to look up the sky roof thing as I had not heard of that seems pretty slick that is the one thing the 4 runner sun roofs are a joke and I do miss my old jeep style of my old FJ40 I used to love the more open feel so again looks awesome congrats on new rig :)
What are you talking about? The 4runner is equipped with selectIon of- 2WD, 4WD HI and 4WD LO.
4HI can go any speed the truck can go.
I believe on the 5th generation 4Runner only the Limited has the option to run 4H with the center differential unlocked (AWD). The other trims are only true (locked center) 4WD in 4H.
Big difference in 4wd and AWD. 4wd hi on dry road could damage all kinds of parts during a turn.
Nope. As long as center diff is unlocked- no issue. ALL Select 2/4WD runners have Cdiff lock/unlock...
I can’t even believe we are talking about this, y’all need to look shit up before posting nonsense.
Only issue you’d have is if you’re looking at a 2010 5th genT4R. Those have no CDIFF lock/unlock.
Other than that it’s a non issue as far as 4th or 5th gen is concerned.
Only issue you’d have is if you’re looking at a 2010 5th genT4R. Those have no CDIFF lock/unlock.
I stand corrected. Odd that they did that for only one year. Do the 2011+ non-Limited models have a center torsen or is it open/locked?
I stand corrected. Odd that they did that for only one year. Do the 2011+ non-Limited models have a center torsen or is it open/locked?
Nope, I’m the asshole. I just took my own advise and looked it up- they did it some years and not others but the 2010, 2013-2020 gen 5 limited is the only lockable/unlockable CDIFF.
Can’t believe toyota did that and didn’t incorporate Torsen diffs on all models. Fail.
Big difference in 4wd and AWD. 4wd hi on dry road could damage all kinds of parts during a turn.
Yep. My '08 FJ has the manual transmission which came standard as an AWD for it's normal mode with 4Hi and 4L on the transfer case. I've driven in soft sugar sand and 12" standing water/mud in AWD and it didn't phase it at all. When I drive a dirt road I put it in 4Hi just to exercise the mechanism since it's rarely needed.
No snow or ice here in the tropics...
CharlieDeltaJuliet
01-11-21, 07:28
My wife has a 2018 Toyota Highlander. It goes very well in bad weather (just had it out in 6+ inches of snow). It has been 100% reliable. We have owned Toyota’s for quite a few years. The Highlander gets 26-27mpg on our road trips.
My wife has a 2018 Toyota Highlander. It goes very well in bad weather (just had it out in 6+ inches of snow). It has been 100% reliable. We have owned Toyota’s for quite a few years. The Highlander gets 26-27mpg on our road trips.
We have a similar vehicle. This is our first Toyota. It's been great so far.
Nissan or Toyota- Not the OP, but we got really close to a 4Runner, but the lack of an AWD option and some of the advanced, and even simple safety like parking sensors on all but the Limited 4Runner killed it. Lots of high speed driving here in CO with spotty ice and snow coverage, so we needed full time 4wd that would handle 50mph +.
Ended up with a Jeep Sahara with the Sky roof and the Selec-trac and pretty much every option. Had to order it, so it will be awhile. This will be our 3rd car, and mainly for the kids to move themselves around.
I was rooting for a 4Runner for long lived, the Jeep will probably end up being a toy for us after the kids leave.
If we got a 4Runner, I was thinking about a 392 Jeep, but since we are getting a Jeep, I'll look at the next gen 4Runner.
Have a question and not trying to sound like a jackass. Please don't take this as sarcasm or insult.
What's with the heavy emphasis on safety sensors?
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FromMyColdDeadHand
01-11-21, 12:00
Nope, I’m the asshole. I just took my own advise and looked it up- they did it some years and not others but the 2010, 2013-2020 gen 5 limited is the only lockable/unlockable CDIFF.
Can’t believe toyota did that and didn’t incorporate Torsen diffs on all models. Fail.
So at best the 4Hi would be good for low-traction high speed (55mph+), but definately not good for daily driving. Which leads to my other issue for the car we selected...
Have a question and not trying to sound like a jackass. Please don't take this as sarcasm or insult.
What's with the heavy emphasis on safety sensors?
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... This will be our third car and the one my two kids will drive mostly. That is why we needed a full 4WD/AWD system- having the kids change back and forth was not optimal. Plus, I-70 in the winter has to be driven to be appreciated. It's not just uphill there and downhill back, it is up-down-up--up, down-up-down, so you can be flooring it to go up a hill, and then engine braking to slow down, all in 6 inches of snow to rain, to ice, all in a two mile stretch- from 80mph to stop and go traffic. And the kids are also the reason for all the safety gear. Toyota wasn't horrible- the lack of parking sensors is really odd (Limited does have them) though there was a back-up camera. With the transmission limitation and the greater safety features, the Jeep won out. From my wife and my perspective, getting a car with less safety features- or not getting the safety features , and then having something happen that might have been averted? What's a couple of grand? A more modern engine and transmission helped too.
The Limited has what we wanted PArking sensors, AWD, it just looks like a mom car, and my son was looking more for the TRD PRO look.
I'm not heart-broken, this leaves it open for me to get a next gen 4Runner when they come out. Of course, if we had gotten a 4Runner now, I'd probably have money down on a 392 Wrangler...
I haven't bought a new car in 17 years. And it isn't 'my car'.
Interestingly, the guy said that paying cash or a loan didn't really matter. There are incentives for them, but they aren't that big. He came in $1800 less than the other two deals I worked up, and no one would get close to his deal, even when pressed. I think he still made some good cash. I had the deal at about 3% under invoice, with from what I read, 5% is the target. It is a straight order, so he said it was just a 2 hour transaction for him, plus it helps him with some kind of allocation next year.
Car sales people seem a lot less pushy than I remember in the past. I wonder if it is that everything is so online now and new car pricing so well understood, that being seen as non-threatening is a key attribute.
BrigandTwoFour
01-11-21, 12:57
Car sales people seem a lot less pushy than I remember in the past. I wonder if it is that everything is so online now and new car pricing so well understood, that being seen as non-threatening is a key attribute.
I'm also looking to pick up a 4Runner in a few months, probably the TRD ORP. But I wanted to respond to this bit, as it's been my experience as well. We (my wife and I) buy a car roughly every 5 years, leapfrogging the purchase so we only have one payment at a time and keep a car for 10 years or so at a time. What you pointed out has been my experience since the mid 2000's.
The rise of the internet and car-buying services has changed the industry a bit. It's no big deal to walk into a dealership having already done price competition against every dealership within a 200 mile radius, and people now can be a whole lot more informed about what they're buying than average. If anything, I think the dealerships are now trying to make their money not on the car itself, but with the extras they sneak in and convince the buyer is "totally normal." That's where you see things like $900 window tint "dealer add-ons", absurdly high "documentation fees," and the other stuff that pops up with the finance officer.
A guy I know (not real well) has the new style (not sure of year) 4Runner that's AWD. I didn't believe it till I saw it. It's kinda like the Lexus GX
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My wife has a 2018 Toyota Highlander. It goes very well in bad weather (just had it out in 6+ inches of snow). It has been 100% reliable. We have owned Toyota’s for quite a few years. The Highlander gets 26-27mpg on our road trips.
We have a similar vehicle. This is our first Toyota. It's been great so far.
I think the wife is ready to get rid of her Audi Allroad and get a Highlander. I rented a 2020 recently and it was nice. I was pleasantly surprised. I also consistently got around 27MPG on the Highway.
A guy I know (not real well) has the new style (not sure of year) 4Runner that's AWD. I didn't believe it till I saw it.
A 4WD 4Runner with a selectable center differential can operate in a mode that is effectively AWD. Was this one AWD only?
I have a 96 TACO that has 315,000 miles and runs like a top. Its kinda sad to say, but Toyota is kind of the road in this market you are looking.
http://i.imgur.com/nrHByES.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/nrHByES)
PB
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-11-21, 14:46
Agreed. Wife bought an X5 about 5 years ago. The 'salesman' was just a set-up man for the financing guy, where all the goodies were offered. That was all cash too, so the 'finance' guy was really just the cashier. With out a trade in or a loan, there isn't much to screw around with. Ordering is nice in some ways because you get what you want, but it isn't like the deal is totally settled yet. Supposedly, it can only go down if new incentives come in, since there are no incentives on right now (besides 36month 0%), but it isn't like I'm out the door with a title or final paperwork.
People doing all the research and knowing what the want and what they'll pay is probably a pain for them, but probably not as much as someone that doesn't know anything about the car, takes a couple of test drives, has to have the options explained to them over and over and then wants the car for crazy low price.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-11-21, 14:51
I have a 96 TACO that has 315,000 miles and runs like a top. Its kinda sad to say, but Toyota is kind of the road in this market you are looking.
http://i.imgur.com/nrHByES.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/nrHByES)
PB
The Yodas were my first choice- thinking that my son could keep the car through college and into his first job, maybe keep as a fun car after that. It just didn't work out. Part of it was the feature set and near antique status of the drivetrain was out of date and soon to be updated. The other was the kids will have the rest of their lives to drive 4 door SUV/cars, have a little fun.
The other is that I've been Jonesing for a Jeep Wrangler since I couldn't afford one when I bought my first new car back in 95, and ever more since the Unlimited. Maybe will spark more outdoors activities here in CO.
A 4WD 4Runner with a selectable center differential can operate in a mode that is effectively AWD. Was this one AWD only?Its the limited model. Full time AWD. The article mentions 2016
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15100833/2016-toyota-4runner-review/
"The Toyota 4Runner remains what it has always been, an SUV with pickup-truck DNA. It has a solid rear axle and body-on-frame construction. Order four-wheel drive, and you get a two-speed transfer case with a low range in the SR5 and Trail models. (The Limited gets a full-time all-wheel-drive system with no low range.)"
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The_War_Wagon
01-11-21, 16:25
Dodge Durango Citadel Hemi
/thread
Adrenaline_6
02-14-21, 17:15
Well, I pushed my timeline up for my eventual overland project SUV and pulled the trigger for a few reasons.
Interest rates are low right now and I see this coming to an abrupt end in the near future.
My wife has metastasized spinal cancer and I am trying to make things as comfortable for her as possible. The 2012 Pathfinder, although with 104,000 miles and still running strong...was too harsh a ride on those unexpected bumps sometimes.
My spidey sense is tingling and I need to get things done earlier than later to be on th safe side.
Oh, scored a sweet fully loaded 2014 LX 570 with less than 90,000 on it for a little above $36,000 (with the trade in...I didn't steal it...lol)
Interior is immaculate. Man, it is a pretty sweet ride.
Well, I pushed my timeline up for my eventual overland project SUV and pulled the trigger for a few reasons.
Interest rates are low right now and I see this coming to an abrupt end in the near future.
My wife has metastasized spinal cancer and I am trying to make things as comfortable for her as possible. The 2012 Pathfinder, although with 104,000 miles and still running strong...was too harsh a ride on those unexpected bumps sometimes.
My spidey sense is tingling and I need to get things done earlier than later to be on th safe side.
Oh, scored a sweet fully loaded 2014 LX 570 with less than 90,000 on it for a little above $36,000 (with the trade in...I didn't steal it...lol)
Interior is immaculate. Man, it is a pretty sweet ride.
nice :) not sure if I ever asked you on expedition portal forum ?
Adrenaline_6
02-14-21, 18:15
nice :) not sure if I ever asked you on expedition portal forum ?
No, but I will be joining and learning on some of those. Thanks for the pointer. I am also looking at the ih8mud forum LC 200 series sub section to learn and to get ideas on what I want to do.
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