View Full Version : Okay financial experts: "Guaranteed lifetime income"
So say when retirement comes around you decide to roll your 401K or similar into a fixed "Guaranteed lifetime income" annuity. Charles Schwab, MetLife, etc. The kind where they say "You give us $300K and we'll pay you $1100 a month for as long as you live." Not asking about if it's the best way to retire, just asking this simple question:
Is it really GUARANTEED? i.e. if another Great Depression hits or the holder files bankruptcy, are you screwed or is it really guaranteed?
Averageman
09-17-20, 11:08
I really don't see how it is really possible to guarantee anythings success when it comes to investing.
Sure there are rules and lots of Math to make things look rosy and everything, but a lot of times the market takes an extreme dump based totally on emotion and when that emotion is real no BS fear, all rules go out the window.
My rules for retirement were:
Talk to an accountant.
Get out of the Market before the election.
Pay off my Truck.
Pay off my House.
Have 18 months of cash in a local bank.
It's a real relief to know a feeble minded octogenarian and a sleep her way to the top Socialist have less chance to ruin my life now.
Diamondback
09-17-20, 11:13
Unsure--I'm no finance expert--but by a little quick math if the person in your example has a life expectancy less than 23 years it's not worth it even if the company stays solvent.
And with inflation, that guaranteed benefit WILL lose purchasing power and thus real value.
So say when retirement comes around you decide to roll your 401K or similar into a fixed "Guaranteed lifetime income" annuity. Charles Schwab, MetLife, etc. The kind where they say "You give us $300K and we'll pay you $1100 a month for as long as you live." Not asking about if it's the best way to retire, just asking this simple question:
Is it really GUARANTEED? i.e. if another Great Depression hits or the holder files bankruptcy, are you screwed or is it really guaranteed?
Those three words just don’t make sense together like that....
Those three words just don’t make sense together like that....
That is the definitive answer I'm searching for. Everything I've read on it has a loose definition of "guaranteed". Obviously you'd be buying it from a big-name insurance company, not Joe's Fly-By-Night Investments. BUT......a massive financial downturn, a la depression, could screw you (?). I'm assuming these aren't guaranteed by the FDIC or anything similar. Sure, you'd not be alone in brokeness but that would be of little comfort.
On the Charles Schwab website there is a " guaranteed lifetime" annuity calculator. There is an asterisk.
* Guarantees depend on the claims-paying ability and strength of the issuing insurance companies.
It is THAT part that concerns me.
I’m ready just to bury my money in a box with boobytraps at this point.
How about that?
Only one thing in life is guaranteed, death, as stated by Firefly below.
If you are offered a lump sum, take it and hire a private financial advisor to invest it for you or advise.
I'm a finance major and made my own financial decisions for most of my career. When I was within 10 years of retirement I hired a private financial advisor to take over and ensure I was on the right path and to keep me on that path.
As it turns out my biggest problem will be spending the money I have accumulated. But I plan on scaring the heck out of spending every last penny.
Nothing in life is guaranteed.
.
Dying is. We always got that to look forward to
So say when retirement comes around you decide to roll your 401K or similar into a fixed "Guaranteed lifetime income" annuity. Charles Schwab, MetLife, etc. The kind where they say "You give us $300K and we'll pay you $1100 a month for as long as you live." Not asking about if it's the best way to retire, just asking this simple question:
Is it really GUARANTEED? i.e. if another Great Depression hits or the holder files bankruptcy, are you screwed or is it really guaranteed?
Well, it really depends on the fine print at the bottom of the contract, doesn't it.
What I think that particular program does is if you give them enough money, they figure they an pay you a set amount for "the rest of your life", even given the ups and downs of the market, skimming the excess in the good years, and taking the hit for you in the lean years. In short, you won't get as much as you might just playing the market, but you also avoid the risks (and there is probably no "left-over" after you pass). All that assumes they can stay in business.
Given the judges' willingness to forgo paying investors in favor of pensions, even "safe" investments like bonds are not guaranteed.
Andy
Well, it really depends on the fine print at the bottom of the contract, doesn't it.
What I think that particular program does is if you give them enough money, they figure they an pay you a set amount for "the rest of your life", even given the ups and downs of the market, skimming the excess in the good years, and taking the hit for you in the lean years. In short, you won't get as much as you might just playing the market, but you also avoid the risks (and there is probably no "left-over" after you pass). All that assumes they can stay in business.
Ding ding ding! This is what I'm driving at.
Sure, big-name companies like Schwab and MetLife are probably at little to no risk of that. That said, I am a glass-half-full kinda guy, a pessimist. To become accustomed to X amount of $$$ each month in retirement, and then a sudden catastrophic economic hit occurs and you get a "Sorry, we filed bankruptcy" letter, would kind of make me start looking up designs for a killdozer. Of course by then I'd probably be too old to do it!
Averageman
09-17-20, 13:59
Bernie Madhoff committed the largest Securities Fraud/Ponzi Scheme in modern history and was responsible for 64.8 Billion in losses.
I'm pretty sure Bernie was telling Steven Spielberg, John Malkovich, Kevin Bacon and Jeffery Katzenberg not to worry, they were all covered and not to worry, guaranteed income for life.
If you look at it, it is all a bit of a Ponzi scheme and there are no guarantee's. Stay in the game as long as you're winning or can't take the pressure, then GTF out.
I run from anything with annuity in the title. You need to hire an adviser that doesn't sell annuities.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-17-20, 16:45
Only one thing in life is guaranteed, death, as stated by Firefly below.
If you are offered a lump sum, take it and hire a private financial advisor to invest it for you or advise.
I'm a finance major and made my own financial decisions for most of my career. When I was within 10 years of retirement I hired a private financial advisor to take over and ensure I was on the right path and to keep me on that path.
As it turns out my biggest problem will be spending the money I have accumulated. But I plan on scaring the heck out of spending every last penny.
First, with a name like HKguns, no amount of money is enough, and secondly if it is, how you doin’. ;)
Can’t speak to the guarantees part of the equation, but I’d be super careful about the tax liability side of things.
Sent from 80ms in the future
This is easy, if anything was guaranteed and always worked...everyone would know about it and would already be doing it.
Investments of any and all forms are nothing more than sophisticated gambling. It can at any time all go wrong, you can get Ponzi'd and Madoff'd at any time. You can lose EVERYTHING because something unexpected / unprecedented happened and the small print essentially says "So sorry...if we lose...you lose."
In our lifetimes, even if you remember WWII, nobody ever saw kids essentially take a year of school off. It never happened...ever. If that can happen...anything can happen.
At least in Vegas the drinks are usually free and often come with a lap dance. Anything that is actually a LOCK is viewed as insider trading and frowned upon. Are there things that are historically safe and all that...sure. But historically they never shut down society for 6 months.
It is said that Annuities are for dependents of the wealthy that can't be trusted with the principal. For that purpose they make a lot of sense.
Dennis.
My parents that were fairly successful in life, hated life insurance with a passion and never had any.
The reason was that both my grandfathers died from stress related things stroke and heart attack, during the depression. So for the families things went from bad to worse. Both of my grandmothers said don't worry we have this life insurance and it will help us. When they went to cash in the policies both companies had gone bankrupt, so all they had was a worthless policy.
My investment thinking is like this, in a nation that is $26T in the hole. Trust no company or institution. Depending on how much money you have I would look at 3 different paths. 1. Learn the stock market and invest in it. But not in the traditional buy and hold. Learn about Trend Following and use it to limit your downside and help your upside. 2. Physical investments, gold,silver and real estate. 3. Diversify your investments geographically. Meaning look for opportunities outside of the USA. This is not an anti USA position, rather an anti Congress position.
We do not live in normal times, which means your thinking has to develop beyond the traditional view of retirement. Become a Jew in Europe in 1938, that can see the evil coming and looks for greener pastures.
The will of Congress to address $26T in debit, just is not there. It will bite the country at some point in time. When it does, starvation will happen in the USA.
So in a word, no. This style of investment is not for me.
This is easy, if anything was guaranteed and always worked...everyone would know about it and would already be doing it.
Investments of any and all forms are nothing more than sophisticated gambling. It can at any time all go wrong, you can get Ponzi'd and Madoff'd at any time. You can lose EVERYTHING because something unexpected / unprecedented happened and the small print essentially says "So sorry...if we lose...you lose."
In our lifetimes, even if you remember WWII, nobody ever saw kids essentially take a year of school off. It never happened...ever. If that can happen...anything can happen.
At least in Vegas the drinks are usually free and often come with a lap dance. Anything that is actually a LOCK is viewed as insider trading and frowned upon. Are there things that are historically safe and all that...sure. But historically they never shut down society for 6 months.
Indeed, 2020 has made me question this (and a lot of things) even more. "It can never happen." Yeah, well.....
It is said that Annuities are for dependents of the wealthy that can't be trusted with the principal. For that purpose they make a lot of sense.
Dennis.
But how many places will buy your annuity and cash you out with "money in hand...today....now"? So even that is no guarantee.
But how many places will buy your annuity and cash you out with "money in hand...today....now"? So even that is no guarantee.I don't think they get control of it...
Indeed, 2020 has made me question this (and a lot of things) even more. "It can never happen." Yeah, well.....
I know understand how the depression happened and caught everyone off guard. It simply happened and you were able to manage it or you lost most of what you had.
I thought the 2008 housing market crash was the big "now I understand moment" but really it was 2020. I now get it. Nobody could imagine what it was gonna be like until it was actually happening.
Annuities aren't necessarily bad and can be an important PART of an overall investment strategy.
I have some money in one and it is performing wonderfully. Not only do I get a guaranteed rate of return, without principle risk, over a defined period of time, but I get the market movement as well.
Putting everything you have into a single place is bad news. If anyone recommends that to you, run away quickly.
The_War_Wagon
09-18-20, 08:21
Is it really GUARANTEED? i.e. if another Great Depression hits or the holder files bankruptcy, are you screwed or is it really guaranteed?
You got a problem with your buck-ninety-eight a month? :rolleyes:
Annuities aren't necessarily bad and can be an important PART of an overall investment strategy.
I have some money in one and it is performing wonderfully. Not only do I get a guaranteed rate of return, without principle risk, over a defined period of time, but I get the market movement as well.
Putting everything you have into a single place is bad news. If anyone recommends that to you, run away quickly.
Well I'm a Federal employee and one option I will have (we're talking 5 years down the road when I eject) is to elect to receive installment payments from my TSP from the Feds with no loss of principle guaranteed (the G Fund). I *should* have about $300K and choosing $1100 a month would give me that amount from age 60 to 88. That is not the "Guaranteed Income Annuity" I originally made this thread about; that is different.
The installment payments eventually run out, but unless the Federal government goes tits-up I'm good. The G Fund has a REALLY low rate of return but is guaranteed principle protection. Guaranteed Lifetime Income annuity goes indefinitely but there is that ever-so-slight risk of a big-name company like Schwab or MetLife going under in some future downturn.
While I'm politically conservative I'm very financially conservative, that glass-half-empty thing and very cautious. Safety, even at a lower $$$ amount, is paramount to me.
Did some digging around and found out about this:
National Organization of Life and Health Insurance Guaranty Associations (NOLHGA)
Apparently it's like the FDIC, but run by the states with regards to annuities and such. Most states cover up to $250K worth. I assume it means the current balance, not the original. It also covers annuities from accounts with one company, so common sense would dictate (in the case of $300K) buying 3 separate $100K annuities from 3 different companies. Then if they all failed, or only one of them did, you'd be covered because no single one of them exceeded $250K. company that is looked at]
Only downside is that it could take months for the legal wrangling of the company's insolvency to be over with and the payments to be resumed.
Well I'm a Federal employee and one option I will have (we're talking 5 years down the road when I eject) is to elect to receive installment payments from my TSP from the Feds with no loss of principle guaranteed (the G Fund). I *should* have about $300K and choosing $1100 a month would give me that amount from age 60 to 88. That is not the "Guaranteed Income Annuity" I originally made this thread about; that is different.
The TSP (thrift savings plan?) is in addition to you government retirement, correct? Will you also collect social security?
Does the 'G Fund' allow you to vary the rate of withdrawl from the account? Offer you loans against the amount?
My understanding is that despite all the hand wringing, social security is said to be solvent up to 2037, and after that continue at 75% of the current rates.
(As a bit of a snarky side remark on a subject we've discussed before you childless, heathen you :p This increase in cost results from population aging, not because we are living longer, but because birth rates dropped from three to two children per woman.)
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html
So, if I figure correctly you have five years of living on your G retirement and TSP, then social security will kick in (if you are eligible) for about 7 years at full rate and then drop to 75% of that rate when you are 72 if I'm figuring correctly.
What does your wife have?
I nodded and smiled at my plan's financial advisory as he explained how they would allot my money until I ran out at age 95 - then having to subsist on social security. I then set out on my own plan.
I figured that I had 15 years of play left in me - to age 77 - and after that could throttle back substantially. So I adjusted my draw accordingly. This resulted in calls from the financial advisor telling me I was going to run out of money. My ace in the hole: my Army Reserve retirement which I purposely did not disclose during planning.
So in your place, I would want your TSP to bridge the difference in what you were bringing home and what you G retirement will pay until SS kicks in, then throttle back.
I could have kicked at 60 when my TriCare kicked in, but at that point I still looked forward to going to work each day. By 62, thanks to one administrator, the work environment had changed and I punched when I saw that two of my long-term projects were not going anyplace.
Unless you are worried about health, or hate your work environment, maybe a better path might be to work a couple more years, unless you are mandated at 60. My experience was that once I knew I could go, I felt more at ease.
The installment payments eventually run out, but unless the Federal government goes tits-up I'm good. The G Fund has a REALLY low rate of return but is guaranteed principle protection. Guaranteed Lifetime Income annuity goes indefinitely but there is that ever-so-slight risk of a big-name company like Schwab or MetLife going under in some future downturn.
While I'm politically conservative I'm very financially conservative, that glass-half-empty thing and very cautious. Safety, even at a lower $$$ amount, is paramount to me.
Buddy, at this point we are all kind of in this together, if the government or economy either one folds, at our ages we'll have bigger things to worry about than how much money we have.
The TSP (thrift savings plan?) is in addition to you government retirement, correct? Will you also collect social security?
Does the 'G Fund' allow you to vary the rate of withdrawl from the account? Offer you loans against the amount?
My understanding is that despite all the hand wringing, social security is said to be solvent up to 2037, and after that continue at 75% of the current rates.
(As a bit of a snarky side remark on a subject we've discussed before you childless, heathen you :p This increase in cost results from population aging, not because we are living longer, but because birth rates dropped from three to two children per woman.) Yeah yeah
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html
So, if I figure correctly you have five years of living on your G retirement and TSP, then social security will kick in (if you are eligible) for about 7 years at full rate and then drop to 75% of that rate when you are 72 if I'm figuring correctly.
FERS pension (which isn't shit), TSP, SS, and VA. Piece it all together and I can punch out at 60 with an increase two years later when I hit 62 and take the early SS. Then at 65 a slight drop when I get Medicare deducted (not sure about that part though, as I can keep my Federal BCBS into retirement at current-employee rates so may not have to buy anything past Medicare Part A). Yes, if SS drops to 75% I'll be 72 in 2037.
Wife makes more than me but is 5 years younger so will work 5 years longer. She too will have FERS, TSP (more than mine because we're about the same now so she'll have maybe $100K more by then), SS (which will also be more due to what she makes), but no VA.
It won't be a Club Med retirement but we won't be eating canned dog food either! House will be paid off in a little over 2 years from now, so mortgage won't be an issue. We currently have 3 vehicles but when I retire there won't be a need for that so one vehicle payment gone too.
What is the money going to get spent on? On what, and when - that's what matters.
Just invest it yourself, information is plentiful, diversification is still the answer.
My cheapskate answer is go with low load (or no load) whole market funds indexed to that. If housing is going to be a large cost, REITs make sense, going with diversified healthcare and tech has been solid for me, countercyclicals also make some sense. Ironically, muni bonds still make a limited amount of sense, just because of the tax advantages, but the rating on those is always suspect, just treat them like other investments and it can make sense just because the low returns post-tax are actually somewhat useful.
For my part trying to do a half-assed FIRE plan, this is basically the mindset - but my intention is to get to the 'fk you' money stage, then proceed to keep working because I enjoy what I do, but doing it from a position of knowing I can walk out the door and never be troubled to look back sounds great.
For my part trying to do a half-assed FIRE plan, this is basically the mindset - but my intention is to get to the 'fk you' money stage, then proceed to keep working because I enjoy what I do, but doing it from a position of knowing I can walk out the door and never be troubled to look back sounds great.
My problem is understanding where "fk you" money starts.
Andy
When doing the math don't forget that what you have put away now probably won't buy half as much in 20 years as it does today. Another big one is health insurance. It isn't going to get any cheaper. Then there are the taxes you will pay on any thing you take out of the 401K.
When doing the math don't forget that what you have put away now probably won't buy half as much in 20 years as it does today. Another big one is health insurance. It isn't going to get any cheaper. Then there are the taxes you will pay on any thing you take out of the 401K.
Already figured those in. I deliberately overestimated tax's and health insurance by a little.
Steve Shannon
09-21-20, 07:47
My problem is understanding where "fk you" money starts.
Andy
It starts with paycheck deduction that goes some kind of savings. First take care of your future by contributing to your 401k and a Roth IRA. Just have it taken out of every paycheck. It’s great if you can put the maximum in every month. You really will not miss it.
At the very least, you are walking away from free money if you don’t put in whatever your company puts in to match your contribution.
If the interface for your 401k allows it, set it to automatically increase each year by the amount you expect your income to grow.
The Roth is an after taxes retirement account, but any gains there are not taxable. So, if you buy a stock that increases by 2000%, the money is all your.
Most 401k plans will allow you to contribute more than the pre-tax amount. That money can be withdrawn without penalty. That’s your F you money.
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It starts with paycheck deduction that goes some kind of savings. First take care of your future by contributing to your 401k and a Roth IRA. Just have it taken out of every paycheck. It’s great if you can put the maximum in every month. You really will not miss it.
At the very least, you are walking away from free money if you don’t put in whatever your company puts in to match your contribution.
If the interface for your 401k allows it, set it to automatically launch increase each year by the amount you expect your income to grow.
The Roth is an after taxes retirement account, but any gains there are not taxable. So, if you buy a stock that increases by 2000%, the money is all your.
Most 401k plans will allow you to contribute more than the pre-tax amount. That money can be withdrawn without penalty. That’s your F you money.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Solid advice and thank you. We had basically no savings when I retired from the Army at 40. I have been working for 12 years in my second career and started at 8% 401K withholding with a 1% increase each year. My company matches 4% and also contributes 4% once each year. I am still not maxed on pre-tax 401K contributions (I'm over 50) but when I am I will probably keep increasing by 1% and put the after tax into Roth.
Hoping to be a millionaire before I retire.
I wish I knew what the US financial state or retirement will look like in the 8 -13 years I have before retirement.
Andy
Averageman
09-21-20, 10:07
It starts with paycheck deduction that goes some kind of savings. First take care of your future by contributing to your 401k and a Roth IRA. Just have it taken out of every paycheck. It’s great if you can put the maximum in every month. You really will not miss it.
At the very least, you are walking away from free money if you don’t put in whatever your company puts in to match your contribution.
If the interface for your 401k allows it, set it to automatically launch increase each year by the amount you expect your income to grow.
The Roth is an after taxes retirement account, but any gains there are not taxable. So, if you buy a stock that increases by 2000%, the money is all your.
Most 401k plans will allow you to contribute more than the pre-tax amount. That money can be withdrawn without penalty. That’s your F you money.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I did this and it works great.
I began with 16% going in to my 401K and I invested the entirety of my Sons Child Support in to a College fund. To cover me another way I invested a small amount in to a Roth.
I just stepped away from it except for every annual raise, I increased it by 2-3% and left it to it's own devices.
Having the freedom to retire, pay off the House and Truck in the same year and still have a bundle to play with is very liberating.
My problem is understanding where "fk you" money starts.
Andy
My thoughts are broadly similar to this - the 25x income, in practical terms means that post-CPI inflation adjusted, assuming that tax situations don't shift drastically without accompanying inflationary growth in market value. Again, this is where holdings time-indexed to what I'll actually buy are the difference.
https://20somethingfinance.com/financial-independence-definition/
I think the most subtle definition changes are 'fk you, I can flip burgers part time', 'fk you, I can exist on the beach/in a tiny house/buy a low maintenance retirement place with no further income', and then finally 'fk you, I walk out the door and nothing has to change'.
Depending on which is your preference, what time horizons that entails (e.g. retiring by 40 you have to hedge with a ~3-4% annual burn rate, if you're targeting an age that starts with a 6 and can reasonable expect SSI of any form, 4-5% is realistic and safe. The biggest part always comes down to lifestyle inflation, what additional costs may emerge going forward (HSA's are another solid vehicle, long term care insurance is also solid).
Transportation and entertainment costs come down, paying off mortgages at various points work out to great practical breakpoints, but time-value of money burned prematurely is what makes or breaks early retirement setups... but also why my plan 100% revolves around trying to achieve FU money, but continuing to work because I actually enjoy doing that, can deliberately blow half of it on toys and the rest on college money for kiddos after expenses, and each billing cycle not spent burning nest egg works out to about 3x billing cycles before every monte carlo simulation puts me at destitute (which is actually just no dedicated retirement savings income, like a scary percentage of financially illiterate americans).
My thoughts are broadly similar to this - the 25x income, in practical terms means that post-CPI inflation adjusted, assuming that tax situations don't shift drastically without accompanying inflationary growth in market value. Again, this is where holdings time-indexed to what I'll actually buy are the difference.
https://20somethingfinance.com/financial-independence-definition/
Practically, maximizing every contribution with 'Roth' in the name is the fast track, having to move the rest to taxable accounts and leveraging tax-benefitted options like muni bonds are the rest of the strategy - investing early, and in growth matters.
Retirement savings ahead of college savings, as crazy as it sounds, is correct. Love my kids, but the only reason I'm contributing to stuff now is that Coverdell ESA's have annual limits, and they're low enough I don't notice or care much. In every other regard, 'borrow for school' works better than 'borrow for retirement', so that gets the prioritization, besides we're about to see a seismic shift in how education is paid for now that big schools have had to tacitly accept that teaching can be done 100% online, and very little of that experience is inherently unique to the institution... and definitely does not require forking over tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of having to deal with institutional accommodations/food/et cetera that bring you close enough to deal with the existential horror of 9am M/W/F classes. That will be a thing of the past, and the price will have to reflect it.
Averageman
09-21-20, 12:07
Practically, maximizing every contribution with 'Roth' in the name is the fast track, having to move the rest to taxable accounts and leveraging tax-benefitted options like muni bonds are the rest of the strategy - investing early, and in growth matters.
Retirement savings ahead of college savings, as crazy as it sounds, is correct. Love my kids, but the only reason I'm contributing to stuff now is that Coverdell ESA's have annual limits, and they're low enough I don't notice or care much. In every other regard, 'borrow for school' works better than 'borrow for retirement', so that gets the prioritization, besides we're about to see a seismic shift in how education is paid for now that big schools have had to tacitly accept that teaching can be done 100% online, and very little of that experience is inherently unique to the institution... and definitely does not require forking over tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of having to deal with institutional accommodations/food/et cetera that bring you close enough to deal with the existential horror of 9am M/W/F classes. That will be a thing of the past, and the price will have to reflect it.
Yeah, the retirement came before the College money, but for several reasons.
If I'm not financially squared away, I can't help myself, let alone my Son.
If I ended up in Court via a custody battle, I look like Ward F'ing Cleaver when I drop that on them.
As the savings accumulated it became a ongoing lesson for my Son. You have to teach your kids finance because most likely, no one else will. Once they learn it and see it grow, you'll have a Junior Scrooge McDuck living with you.
I never missed the money coming out of my check, likely as not, you wont either, just live within your means.
You have to teach your kids finance because most likely, no one else will. Once they learn it and see it grow, you'll have a Junior Scrooge McDuck living with you.
I never missed the money coming out of my check, likely as not, you wont either, just live within your means.
This is probably the most underrated reason why wealth and poverty remain generational. Whatever other reasons people try to attribute, this is it, and cycle-breakers in positive directions are still uncommon.
Live beneath means, because rainy days are inevitable. I typically have to force myself not to take this mindset to an extreme, and at least spend some money enjoying things I can physically only do at my age... but there's room in the budget.
Wife makes more than me but is 5 years younger so will work 5 years longer.
HA!HA!HA! My wife is seven years younger than me, a year and a half after I retired she did too. She had enough time, the problem was that she was too young to draw SS and took about a 30% decrease in take home from retirement. I was not in favor of this course of action, but WTF. A year later she went back to work, she's still drawing her retirement, they just aren't putting anything more in for her.
I want to keep my stuff so I refrained from saying too much.
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