View Full Version : Looking to build no frills, highly reliable *shtf* type AR.
***UPDATE 10/14/21***
So I've gone ahead and started to make some orders. So far here is what I have or have on the way
Lower - stripped gen 2 aero lower (on the way)
Upper - aero precision standard mil-spec upper with forward assist and port door installed (on the way)
Buffer - bcm 3.8oz h buffer (have)
Buffer spring - springco white spring (have)
Endplate - bcm qd (have)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
So I'm simply looking to build up a nice quality AR with the sole purpose of self defense/shtf. When I say SHTF I really just mean something rugged and reliable. I shoot lefty so an ambi mag release, safety and ch are a must. Ambi bolt release not so much since I usually just use my trigger finger to drop the bolt. So far I've decided for sure on a few pieces of the build. The barrel and BCG.
BARREL
The barrel will be a 16" Spikes/FN chf mid-length "optimum" barrel. Haven't decided if I want the A2FSGB and use a 9.5" free float or go with the single pinned and set screw with a 12-13.5" handguard. Either way same outcome.
BCG
Looking to get a microbest. I'd like a fathers of freedom from PSA but they're out of stock. BCM or SOLGW will most likely be the BCG I choose.
MAG RELEASE AND SAFETY
Geissele maritime bolt release
Troy ambi mag release
OR
FCD rear biased bolt catch with their standard length ambi mag release.
Other than that I'm still trying to gather idea's. First I'd like to decide on a forged upper/lower. I'd like to get a set made from the same manufacturer. Right now I think an Aero m4e1 lower with a standard Aero upper so I can use any handguard is where I'm leaning. Biggest issue is trying to find an upper and lower in stock from the same company.
I currently have a springco white spring and H Buffer so I'll probably start out with that combo and see how it runs once I decide on everything and make my orders. I also already have a BCM qd endplate and an ikickhippies endplate so that's taken care of whichever one I decide to use.
Far as the LPK and trigger I'm open. I think a standard mil-spec single stage trigger would suite my needs just fine. Maybe something like an ALG ACT or BCM PNT. I'd also consider the right to bear arms pnt 5.5 lb trigger since I used to have one and loved it.
The LPK I just want something basic that is non mim. Maybe CMMG or something like that?
Well that's just some of my quick thoughts and would love any and all feedback and ideas.
Oh, another goal is to keep this build as lightweight as I can given the barrel I chose. The optic will be a red dot- most likely a Trijicon MRO with a qd lower 1/3rd mount. Light will be a surefire scout m300 z68 tailcap. Other than that I don't plan to use anything else for add-on's except possibly a vert grip.
Post is moved - hope I did not come across as too much of an ass.
My first thought when I read your post was that it's a bad time to build an AR. It will be hard to find specific parts, which can lead to compromises. I would suggest buying a complete, quality, AR and put building on the back burner.
Andy
My fault. I'll delete this and post it to AR Tech.
Looks like I can't delte it. Mod, please delete. Sorry again.
everready73
10-08-20, 08:30
Looks like they got it moved
If you can find an Aero M4E1 set they are nice and if you go with the threaded style upper you can use any handguard you want.
SOLGW or BCM are great choices for the BCG
For lower parts kit look at SOLGW or Sionics. They both offer builder kits w/o trigger for resonable prices. All Scmid Tool parts. Trigger options you mentioned are fine. Centirion, SOLGW and Sionics all make a similar one if you cant find stock.
I really like FCD for any ambi parts. I have seen some issues of the Maritime breaking on some facebook groups
How many AR15s have you assembled previously, or is this your first?
titsonritz
10-08-20, 13:24
I'd recommend buying a factory BCM and calling it a day.
I'd recommend buying a factory BCM and calling it a day.
This is probably a very good idea ^. Then everything is matching. The price is reasonable, and you won't have to screw around trying to fix it if it doesn't work out. BCM = very good duty rifle. Everything works.
To build your own properly requires the right tools and some knowledge.
At the very least, if you feel like you want to build something, buy a complete BCM upper and build the lower.
But I would buy a complete rifle for my first one. That's what I did. Never regretted it.
My BCM is really, really nice.
But Centurion Arms is the way to go.
I love building ARs, it's just a rotten time for it right now. Its also pretty ambitious to assemble a SHTF gun that absolutely, positively has to work as your first full build.
My first AR was a BCM complete URG on a stripped lower that I completed with BCM parts. It's been spot on reliable from day one. I also bought a used LMT complete 14.5 upper (bcg and all) and joined it to a complete LMT lower to create a SPM 14 - it's definitely SHTF worthy.
Andy
Actually because of the ambi requirements I would differ from others in the thread and say just buy an LMT and call it a day.
In this environment I really believe you'd be better off buying a complete rifle, BCM, Sionics, or Centurion if you can find something close to what you want and then ordering the various parts you want to add and wait on them. It's not a gresat time to be sourcing parts that aren't in stock anywhere.
MikhailBarracuda91
10-09-20, 08:44
I love building ARs, it's just a rotten time for it right now. Its also pretty ambitious to assemble a SHTF gun that absolutely, positively has to work as your first full build.
My first AR was a BCM complete URG on a stripped lower that I completed with BCM parts. It's been spot on reliable from day one. I also bought a used LMT complete 14.5 upper (bcg and all) and joined it to a complete LMT lower to create a SPM 14 - it's definitely SHTF worthy.
AndyMy "go to" is a BCM, but my brother's LMT spm14 is every bit as nice. Both have always been 100% reliable.
LMT has this unique characteristic to their parts, tbh I'm kind of jealous. It's a fantastic rifle
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I love building ARs...
My first AR was a BCM complete URG on a stripped lower that I completed
Andy describes mostly what I did. Great way to save some cash and get ambi controls. The LMT MARS-L will require some patience, but the stripped one isn’t a bad value once you factor the cost of adding FCD ambi controls to a standard lower.
Buy a BCM upper and reputable lower, or a complete BCM.
BCM’s are allegedly a little generously gassed these days, which can serve you well if the fantasy of SHTF ever occurs. Get one with a front sight post.
Alternatively, Centurion seems awesome. I have used their handguards and receivers and have been pleased.
As a wildcard, if you are equipped to check torque, etc, the IWI Zion seems like the absolute best value in the field these days. However, it does not yet have a block of street cred.
I will add an addendum:
It’s fine to assemble the lower yourself as long as you use reputable parts and tools, but only really worth it if that’s the only way you get what you want. I like the VLTOR A5 system (and the reality of having every AR assembled as a pistol first), so all of my lowers were either assembled by me initially, or disassembled and reassembled with better parts.
Renegade04
10-09-20, 14:00
So I'm simply looking to build up a nice quality AR with the sole purpose of self defense/shtf. When I say SHTF I really just mean something rugged and reliable. I shoot lefty so an ambi mag release, safety and ch are a must. Ambi bolt release not so much since I usually just use my trigger finger to drop the bolt. So far I've decided for sure on a few pieces of the build. The barrel and BCG.
BARREL
The barrel will be a 16" Spikes/FN chf mid-length "optimum" barrel. Haven't decided if I want the A2FSGB and use a 9.5" free float or go with the single pinned and set screw with a 12-13.5" handguard. Either way same outcome.
BCG
Looking to get a microbest. I'd like a fathers of freedom from PSA but they're out of stock. BCM or SOLGW will most likely be the BCG I choose.
MAG RELEASE AND SAFETY
Geissele maritime bolt release
Troy ambi mag release
OR
FCD rear biased bolt catch with their standard length ambi mag release.
Other than that I'm still trying to gather idea's. First I'd like to decide on a forged upper/lower. I'd like to get a set made from the same manufacturer. Right now I think an Aero m4e1 lower with a standard Aero upper so I can use any handguard is where I'm leaning. Biggest issue is trying to find an upper and lower in stock from the same company.
I currently have a springco white spring and H Buffer so I'll probably start out with that combo and see how it runs once I decide on everything and make my orders. I also already have a BCM qd endplate and an ikickhippies endplate so that's taken care of whichever one I decide to use.
Far as the LPK and trigger I'm open. I think a standard mil-spec single stage trigger would suite my needs just fine. Maybe something like an ALG ACT or BCM PNT. I'd also consider the right to bear arms pnt 5.5 lb trigger since I used to have one and loved it.
The LPK I just want something basic that is non mim. Maybe CMMG or something like that?
Well that's just some of my quick thoughts and would love any and all feedback and ideas.
The FCD rear biased bolt catch with their standard length ambi mag release is a good choice. They are designed to work with each other without interference. That is what I used on a recent rebuild.
https://i.imgur.com/rVXVKyf.jpg
As far as the upper and lower receivers, Aero Precision is a good choice as well. They are well made, to spec, and finished extremely well. In regard to the LPK and trigger, CMMG makes a really nice LPK and you can get it without the FCG (trigger, hammer, and disconnector). AS far as the trigger goes, I would highly recommend the LaRue Tactical MBT-2S (2-stage) with either the straight or curved bow trigger.
On the barrel and handguard issue, I would stick with the Spikes barrel you mentioned, but use a low profile gas block. As far as the handguard, I would take a serious look at the LaRue Tactical LAT. It is available in lengths up to 13.2" and comes in at $10 per inch. They are very robust and rock solid.
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-lokpicatinny-handguards/
I have one of these on a build I did almost two years ago. This also has the LaRue Tactical MBT-2S with a straight bow trigger and the LaRue Tactical 16" PredatAR barrel. I also used an Aero Precision upper receiver.
https://i.imgur.com/SN9JfSe.jpg
Those are my thoughts on the matter.
Thanks for the input guys. I'd have no problem buying a complete BCM lower and BCM upper. Issue is stock. I do know where I can get a stripped BCM lower and the comlete uppers can be found. Only thing holding me back from BCM is I'm worried I'll get a BCM lower that has the gen 3 pmag issue. Did this ever get resolved or is it even an issue? If I could find a complete BCM lower I could easily add the ambi safety and mag release. As I said an ambi bolt catch really isn't a must for me. Another poster mentioned the LMT mars lower. Would love one, just would have to make sure I get an upper that will work with the ambi bolt catch. Also stock is an issue on that as well.
Oh and I have a great gun-smith who I've became friends with over the last year or so. If I needed I could have him assemble anything I didn't have the tools for and for a good price.
The FCD rear biased bolt catch with their standard length ambi mag release is a good choice. They are designed to work with each other without interference. That is what I used on a recent rebuild.
As far as the upper and lower receivers, Aero Precision is a good choice as well. They are well made, to spec, and finished extremely well. In regard to the LPK and trigger, CMMG makes a really nice LPK and you can get it without the FCG (trigger, hammer, and disconnector). AS far as the trigger goes, I would highly recommend the LaRue Tactical MBT-2S (2-stage) with either the straight or curved bow trigger.
On the barrel and handguard issue, I would stick with the Spikes barrel you mentioned, but use a low profile gas block. As far as the handguard, I would take a serious look at the LaRue Tactical LAT. It is available in lengths up to 13.2" and comes in at $10 per inch. They are very robust and rock solid.
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-lokpicatinny-handguards/
I have one of these on a build I did almost two years ago. This also has the LaRue Tactical MBT-2S with a straight bow trigger and the LaRue Tactical 16" PredatAR barrel. I also used an Aero Precision upper receiver.
Those are my thoughts on the matter.
Those Larue handguards aren't that expensive compared to some other's. I was looking at the midwest combat rail and the mk14 which is expensive. Larue rail looks pretty good too which is a nice bonus.
Those Larue handguards aren't that expensive compared to some other's. I was looking at the midwest combat rail and the mk14 which is expensive. Larue rail looks pretty good too which is a nice bonus.
If it helps your search here is the Midwest Industries SLH 14" for $117 at https://dackoutdoors.com/product/midwest-industries-inc-mislh14-slimline-ar-15-6061-aluminum-black-hard-coat-anodized-14
10.5" for $110 https://dackoutdoors.com/product/midwest-industries-mislh105-slimline-m-lok-handguard-ar-15-black-hardcoat-anodized-6061-t6-aluminum-10.50
Another poster mentioned the LMT mars lower. Would love one, just would have to make sure I get an upper that will work with the ambi bolt catch.
Any regular forged upper will work fine. The BCM Mk2 is the only one I know that will not (confirmed this myself with BCM). If you get into billet uppers, you will have to be more careful.
Also stock is an issue on that as well.
V1tactical.com is your friend. Last time I was there, they had projections on where they were “in line” with LMT or something like that.
Well I went ahead and made 1 decision so I'll be building this AR. I went on Aero precision last night and they had some assembled uppers in stock. I ordered one of their standard mil-spec assembled uppers. Not the m4e1, just a plain ol mil-spec forged upper with fwd assist and dust cover. Buddy has a tool to square the receiver so I'll probably have him go ahead and do that for me since I mean, why not?
MikhailBarracuda91
10-10-20, 09:33
V1tactical.com is your friend. Last time I was there, they had projections on where they were “in line” with LMT or something like that.
I checked it out. Man how have I not heard of that site, holy smokes!
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I checked it out. Man how have I not heard of that site, holy smokes!
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Can’t remember if they opened up last year or the year before. New, definitely caused some people to wonder when they first offered their LMT items. But it’s solid.
MikhailBarracuda91
10-10-20, 11:22
Can’t remember if they opened up last year or the year before. New, definitely caused some people to wonder when they first offered their LMT items. But it’s solid.I showed my brother. He is kind of sour because he could've got the New Zealand Reference Rifle instead of the LMT he kitted out.
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LWRC makes a nice ambidextrous lower, as does American Defense. Might be easier to buy a ready made, vice a "part swap out" lower.
LWRC makes a nice ambidextrous lower, as does American Defense. Might be easier to buy a ready made, vice a "part swap out" lower.
Oh I'd love one of them LWRC lowers. Again though can't find in stock and they are damn expensive. I really kinda have my heart set on a Mars-l lower now. I can get one in April so maybe I'll just use an Aero lower until I can get one. Then I can use the Aero lower for something else. Maybe a 6.8 spc or something idk.
CatBacker88
10-11-20, 07:51
Because there's not a lot of wisdom in fixing things that aren't broken? Give it a chance first.
I understand and you make sense. Some people say that about using any ambi parts. I always say well I bet you're right handed lol. As I've said, the one AR function that works well for lefty shooters is the bolt release so it's not needed for me.
Btw, I'm not left handed. I'm extreme left eye dominate and basically can't shoot long guns righty. I shoot my pistols right handed but lean the gun a little left and cock my head a little right to compensate. I've had a few people try and tell me to use my left, NOT GONNA HAPPEN shooting pistols.
Question, Since I ordered an Aero upper I'd like to pair with an Aero lower. The M4E1 lower's will they match up with the standard Aero upper? Also the m4e1 with the threaded bolt catch is there any chance it could ever walk out over time making my bolt catch not work? Locktite or a non issue? I may go with a gen 2 lower instead but I like the look of the m4e1 with the built in trigger guard.
Whether or not it exactly “matches,” a standard upper will look fine and work fine on an M4E1 upper. Of course, the M4E1 upper would look perfect.
If you don’t plan to change the bolt catch, use a little blue Loctite.
Well the plan is in motion. I just ordered the stripped lower. Went with a gen 2 Aero precision stripped lower. Good price too, less than $100 shipped. They can be found in stock right now on several web sites if anyone is interested.
Maybe I'll update on the original post I made to keep progress of this build?
Well the plan is in motion. I just ordered the stripped lower. Went with a gen 2 Aero precision stripped lower. Good price too, less than $100 shipped. They can be found in stock right now on several web sites if anyone is interested.
Maybe I'll update on the original post I made to keep progress of this build?
Again I’ll ask, how many AR15s you’ve built....
All looks good. Get the best LPK you can find. SOLGW and BCM BCG's are great. Toolcraft is also good: get the milspec not the 91xx steel bolt. You could get it all done at "SOLGW Blaster Pack" with enhanced FCG and BCG. Inspect everything well and fit everything, make sure to torque the barrel nut per-spec anti seize. Inspect the fit on the upper to barrel extension and make sure the feed ramps do not conflict with the upper. I believe Aero forged receivers are really good: I like E2 Armory myself at a similar price point. Make sure you get all the pins and springs fitted properly, and oil and grease it well and do function checks to ensure everything is working properly. If you have never done a build make sure your FCG pins are locked in by the trigger and hammer spring, aeroshell the trigger to hammer sear surface, make sure your split pins are seated flush, and bend your safety spring properly so it does not fly out when removing the grip. Ensure the BCG is properly staked, and stake the extension after you torque it and cycle the gun. I have a rule of thumb: I de-grease all parts and oil everything excessively after I assemble with a small amount of assembly oil, I also grease certain bearing surfaces. I use a bio lube and apply the lube hot. Sounds like a good build. Oh yes and lastly: if you are installing your own gas block have a pro do it for you unless you have done it before successfully.
Again I’ll ask, how many AR15s you’ve built....
Based on lack of response I think we know the answer.
This thread reminds me of when I suggest a new gun owner buy a Glock or HK as a first pistol then they come back with a Taurus because the internet sez “just as gud”.
Seriously OP, if you want a hard use rifle, sell the crap you bought and hunt down a complete rifle from Colt, Sionics, BCM or LMT. These rifles undergo QC checks before, during, and after assembly that you cannot do at home without a huge investment in tooling. Otherwise, this is just another cobbled together heap of parts.
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MikhailBarracuda91
10-19-20, 09:56
This thread reminds me of when I sigfest a new gun owner buy a Glock or HK as a first pistol then they come back with a Taurus because the internet sez “just as gud”.
Seriously OP, if you want a hard use rifle, sell the crap you bought and hunt down a complete rifle from Colt, Sionics, BCM or LMT. These rifles undergo QC checks before, during, and after assembly that you cannot do at home without a huge investment in tooling. Otherwise, this is just another cobbled together heap of parts.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI think a somewhat mechanically inclined person can assemble a lower with YouTube vids. However the cost in punches and a few odds and ends tools may price out be close to a complete lower in the end.
I still buy complete uppers from the above mentioned brands, also for the same exact reasons.
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I think a somewhat mechanically inclined person can assemble a lower with YouTube vids. However the cost in punches and a few odds and ends tools may price out be close to a complete lower in the end.
I still buy complete uppers from the above mentioned brands, also for the same exact reasons.
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We’re talking best reliable no frills AR. Did the budget lower manufacturer QC check that lower before it went out the door? Maybe? Test fire it? Certainly not. Same with your LPK. There is a reason why companies like BCM and Sionics prefer to sell their lowers complete.
“Mechanically inclined people” on youtube are why pistol grips that cover the trigger guard tabs exist. DIY is great for hobby guns, but it’s not a replacement for factory quality and QC. The cost savings isn’t even there any more, unless using “just as gud” parts, but that isn’t what we’re discussing for a reliable rifle.
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MikhailBarracuda91
10-19-20, 12:09
We’re talking best reliable no frills AR. Did the budget lower manufacturer QC check that lower before it went out the door? Maybe? Test fire it? Certainly not. Same with your LPK. There is a reason why companies like BCM and Sionics prefer to sell their lowers complete.
“Mechanically inclined people” on youtube are why pistol grips that cover the trigger guard tabs exist. DIY is great for hobby guns, but it’s not a replacement for factory quality and QC. The cost savings isn’t even there any more, unless using “just as gud” parts, but that isn’t what we’re discussing for a reliable rifle.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou're acting like the guy is a complete idiot. Maybe he is idk.
I remember the first time I assembled a lower half, I followed a few videos from Midway USA. I also didn't buy cheap "just as gud" parts. Believe it or not that lower still runs perfect to this very day!
I totally agree that buying anything complete from a reputable manufacturer is a sure fire way. I've noticed on this forum that there's an overly critical undertone when people ask for opinions or help.
I guess my point is, if OP is so incapable that he can't follow a legitimate guide and assemble a lower receiver, than it won't matter what rifle he has when he needs it.
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MountainRaven
10-19-20, 15:55
“Mechanically inclined people” on youtube are why pistol grips that cover the trigger guard tabs exist.
I would like you to explain this statement for me, please.
I would like you to explain this statement for me, please.
'cause folks watch a youtube video...It looks easy so they think they have a handle on things. "He just pounded that pin in, no problem...I can do that!"
But they lack experience and finesse and oftentimes the right tools. So when they get their framing hammer out and start to pound in the pin with a nail they found that looked to be the right size, the pin binds. They get frustrated because it isn't going like the video, so they hit it harder. But they weren't careful to support the tab correctly. Another stiff blow or two with the old framing hammer and rusty nail, and off goes the TG tab. "Oh, F**K!"
So now they need the Idiot Grip to cover their lack of finesse and experience and right tools for the job.
Not saying that people can never make a functional build..Just that they often don't.
This thread reminds me of when I suggest a new gun owner buy a Glock or HK as a first pistol then they come back with a Taurus because the internet sez “just as gud”.
Seriously OP, if you want a hard use rifle, sell the crap you bought and hunt down a complete rifle from Colt, Sionics, BCM or LMT. These rifles undergo QC checks before, during, and after assembly that you cannot do at home without a huge investment in tooling. Otherwise, this is just another cobbled together heap of parts.
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What kind of "huge investment in tooling" do you mean?
I feel like a few folks are overreacting to the OP. He asked for advice: you gave it no need to pull your dingus out and wave it around. We don’t want to be toxic and turn this forum into another GlockTalk bubblegum-show. That said I agree OP you should consider buying a Colt, BCM, or SOLGW. I don’t have Sionics experience but I know there are a handful of other really good manufacturers that I have zero experience with.
MountainRaven
10-19-20, 20:49
'cause folks watch a youtube video...It looks easy so they think they have a handle on things. "He just pounded that pin in, no problem...I can do that!"
But they lack experience and finesse and oftentimes the right tools. So when they get their framing hammer out and start to pound in the pin with a nail they found that looked to be the right size, the pin binds. They get frustrated because it isn't going like the video, so they hit it harder. But they weren't careful to support the tab correctly. Another stiff blow or two with the old framing hammer and rusty nail, and off goes the TG tab. "Oh, F**K!"
So now they need the Idiot Grip to cover their lack of finesse and experience and right tools for the job.
Not saying that people can never make a functional build..Just that they often don't.
I thought Kyohte was referring to things like the Ergo Gapper and pistol grips that cover the same gap.
I thought Kyohte was referring to things like the Ergo Gapper and pistol grips that cover the same gap.
No. Kerplode nailed it.
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It's generally my opinion that gaps should never be covered.. :o
What kind of "huge investment in tooling" do you mean?
Punches, castle nut wrench, barrel nut wrench, vise, vise blocks, gauges (including headspace), torque wrench. Sure you can go cheap on these, but we’re talking best practices.
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I have a few scattered thoughts:
-Let people know how much experience you have so we can guide you better
-Just because you know a buddy who can square your upper receiver face doesn't mean you should
-You might consider building the lower as an A5
-Grease, properly torque, and stake your receiver extension assembly. Be sure it's 7075.
-A CMMG LPK is adequate. Their pistol grip sucks. Their triggers are great for a mil-spec.
-Just buy a complete BCM upper (I can build uppers but I can't build one as nice as a factory BCM upper). Insert high quality BCG and 7075 charging handle.
-Consider a Geissele optic mount instead of QD.
ViperTwoSix
10-20-20, 19:53
Lots of folks will say just buy from a high quality manufacturer instead of build. This used to frustrate me because it didn’t answer the question (if we are specifically talking about building then “buy an XXXX” doesn’t answer how to actually do the build correctly to end up with a reliable rifle), but I have come to understand that others say this because of all the little checks and gauges that a manufacturer would be doing to ensure reliable functioning. Plus it becomes a statistical situation- you can be more confident in the repeated reliability of thousands of rifles built by a highly regarded company vs. the statistical reliability of 1 rifle built at home. That said, can we lay out what would actually need to be done to complete a good quality build and let the OP decide for himself if he is willing to invest the time, money, and effort?
My opinion is that I believe a reliable rifle can be assembled with the proper parts, tools, and attention to detail. It just depends how much time and effort you are willing to put into it. Below is just a summary of some of what I’ve learned from others over the past several months:
Use multiple forums and search for threads around reliability, home builds, frankenguns, quality AR, and any other term you can think of. I have found all of the below helpful to one extent or another:
M4carbine.net (obviously)
AR15.com
Primary and Secondary
Pistol-Forum (they have a sub category for carbines)
There are some great threads on all of these about build quality, home builds that work and don’t work, what parts commonly break during carbine courses, observations from high round count hard use (thousands upon thousands of rounds on full auto), and more. These can provide great insights into what makes an AR reliable.
Buy quality parts and tools. Example regarding tools; I have seen 3 different sizes of 1/16 in. roll pin punches. 1/16 (1.5mm), 1/16 (1.6mm), and a 1/16 from Home Depot that is bigger than both of those. An oversized roll pin punch will get stuck in your roll pin hole, trust me I’ve made that mistake. Using the correct tools of good quality and using them the correct way seems to make building more fun, more enjoyable, and results in more confidence in the rifle in my opinion.
For examples on parts, metal injection molding (MIM) are considered lower quality than cast parts. There are varying degrees of carrier gas key staking quality, some low quality bolts seem to break fairly quickly, higher quality last a lot longer. Even subtle variations in parts, for example the beveling on the end of the gas tube that goes into the gas key, play a role In reliability. Searching the threads for others experiences is your friend when looking for quality parts. Even parts as small as the extractor spring can affect reliability. The buffer spring is also commonly mentioned as being critical to reliability and should be of high quality. I recommend buying from manufacturers or distributors with good customer service and warranty reputations. If you get a lemon or parts are missing a company with a good reputation will replace it no problem.
Some of the small details about how the rifle is assembled can matter just as much as the parts:
Muzzle device properly torqued
Gas block properly aligned to gas port.
Gas tube properly aligned to carrier key.
Gas block properly attached.
Gas port hole is the proper dimensions.
Molybdenum grease or aeroshell grease on the proper areas.
Proper staking on gas key screws and castle nut.
Proper torque on barrel nut.
Verifying feed ramp alignment.
Proper buffer weight.
Proper buffer spring length.
High quality ammunition and magazines are also commonly referenced as critical to reliability.
Some of the checks and gauges:
Gauge gas port size.
Gauge head space.
Gauge firing pin protrusion.
Checking gas ring seal.
Checking if extractor or other bolt parts have become magnetized.
SOTAR even has gauges for gas key and gas tube, and I think firing pin hole on the bolt.
I’ve seen a video of SOLGW using a special go/no go gauge to confirm inside diameter of their low profile gas blocks.
There are also considerations to be made regarding the tolerances of parts from different manufacturers and how they fit together. To my understanding if two parts are made to the opposite ends of the allowable tolerance range they may not fit together or function as ideally as intended, or maybe not at all.
The more of the little details like the ones above that you can check off the more confident you can be in the reliability of the rifle you build. At the end of the day, you can do tons on research and put the time and effort into learning what makes the rifle function reliably, or you can slap parts together and hit the range. However, if you just slap parts together you may end up with a rifle that is dangerous, doesn’t work properly, or that doesn’t work at all.
It’s YOUR rifle, so ultimately it comes down to how confident YOU are that it will work when you need it, and how confident YOU are in your skills to use it when you need it.
I also suggest function checking as you build, don’t wait until the end. As you should with any defensive firearm, test with the ammo you intent to use in at the range before betting your life on it.
Best of luck!
Lots of folks will say just buy from a high quality manufacturer instead of build. This used to frustrate me because it didn’t answer the question (if we are specifically talking about building then “buy an XXXX” doesn’t answer how to actually do the build correctly to end up with a reliable rifle), but I have come to understand that others say this because of all the little checks and gauges that a manufacturer would be doing to ensure reliable functioning. Plus it becomes a statistical situation- you can be more confident in the repeated reliability of thousands of rifles built by a highly regarded company vs. the statistical reliability of 1 rifle built at home. That said, can we lay out what would actually need to be done to complete a good quality build and let the OP decide for himself if he is willing to invest the time, money, and effort?
My opinion is that I believe a reliable rifle can be assembled with the proper parts, tools, and attention to detail. It just depends how much time and effort you are willing to put into it. Below is just a summary of some of what I’ve learned from others over the past several months:
...
Great advice. I would never discourage a personal build/craft, However:
- A lot can go wrong with a home build: the list is virtually endless. Last year a kid showed up to a training event I attended with a home build and he had a catastrophic malfunction due to several build screw-ups. He noted the carbine was a home defense build...
- You need a lot of tools to build an AR right: and possibly specialty tools to diagnose any number of potential build tolerance issues. I have lost track how much I have invested in my tool kit?
- You need specialized knowledge to build/assemble an AR right and an understanding of the process to modify the gun. It's a challenge even for experienced enthusiasts: even professionals struggle at times to diagnose factory issues, especially bubba'd guns.
Quality manufacturers have done years of product evolution and invested a significant amount of resources into solving problems. I prefer the military manufacturers myself: at the very least some military contract heritage, and then also duty purposed guns are another thing I look for. And if you are on a tight budget you can really do well with PSA premium line and a few modifications.
Great advice. I would never discourage a personal build/craft, However:
- A lot can go wrong with a home build: the list is virtually endless. Last year a kid showed up to a training event I attended with a home build and he had a catastrophic malfunction due to several build screw-ups. He noted the carbine was a home defense build...
- You need a lot of tools to build an AR right: and possibly specialty tools to diagnose any number of potential build tolerance issues. I have lost track how much I have invested in my tool kit?
- You need specialized knowledge to build/assemble an AR right and an understanding of the process to modify the gun. It's a challenge even for experienced enthusiasts: even professionals struggle at times to diagnose factory issues, especially bubba'd guns.
Quality manufacturers have done years of product evolution and invested a significant amount of resources into solving problems. I prefer the military manufacturers myself: at the very least some military contract heritage, and then also duty purposed guns are another thing I look for. And if you are on a tight budget you can really do well with PSA premium line and a few modifications.
agree
Hey thanks everyone for all the input and I'm sorry to make a post then ditch out for so long. I've been extremely busy at work. Anyhow, after reading what everyone has said I have decided to keep the Aero UPPER/LOWER but I'm going to put that on hold for more of a range gun. To answer the question, No, I do not have very much experience building AR's. I've done simple things like install a mag release and change pistol grips but never a complete build and I don't have many tools. I feel my knowledge level is pretty high but I don't have the hands on as of now. With all that being said I've decided to follow alot of your guys advice and buy a complete lower and a complete upper. I'd buy a rifle but the funds are a little tight. I've decided to go with a complete BCM or Centurion lower. Problem is I can't find either anywhere. I do however have a lead on a take off colt le6920 complete lower for $400.
What do you guys think about a complete Colt lower with say a BCM or Centurion complete upper? Or maybe just buy a 6920 upper which there are some in stock at various places with a Colt BCG though it may not be when I have the funds in a few wees.
If an upper doesn’t work well with a Colt lower, then the upper is the problem. Really can’t beat a Colt upper, either, even if there are “cooler” uppers out there these days.
So you should be good. Just from my perspective, $400 is a bit high for a used complete lower of any stripe, but it is what it is. Hold out for a few days, some companies may have stock held back for Black Friday.
If an upper doesn’t work well with a Colt lower, then the upper is the problem. Really can’t beat a Colt upper, either, even if there are “cooler” uppers out there these days.
So you should be good. Just from my perspective, $400 is a bit high for a used complete lower of any stripe, but it is what it is. Hold out for a few days, some companies may have stock held back for Black Friday.
I think it's just a take off but not actually used. I'll call them tmrw to verify.
Hey thanks everyone for all the input and I'm sorry to make a post then ditch out for so long. I've been extremely busy at work. Anyhow, after reading what everyone has said I have decided to keep the Aero UPPER/LOWER but I'm going to put that on hold for more of a range gun. To answer the question, No, I do not have very much experience building AR's. I've done simple things like install a mag release and change pistol grips but never a complete build and I don't have many tools. I feel my knowledge level is pretty high but I don't have the hands on as of now. With all that being said I've decided to follow alot of your guys advice and buy a complete lower and a complete upper. I'd buy a rifle but the funds are a little tight. I've decided to go with a complete BCM or Centurion lower. Problem is I can't find either anywhere. I do however have a lead on a take off colt le6920 complete lower for $400.
What do you guys think about a complete Colt lower with say a BCM or Centurion complete upper? Or maybe just buy a 6920 upper which there are some in stock at various places with a Colt BCG though it may not be when I have the funds in a few wees.
go with the colt lower all day everyday
If I buy the Colt lower the only things I'll change are simple things. Trigger guard, Grip, norgon (arms unlimited knock off) ambi mag release, bad-ass pro ambi safety, bcm qd endplate then re-stake it. I'll stick with the mil-spec Colt trigger since this is going to be a "go-to" type rifle. The Colt's come with the 4 position extension correct? I like the 2nd and 3rd slots of a 6 position.
If I buy the Colt lower the only things I'll change are simple things. Trigger guard, Grip, norgon (arms unlimited knock off) ambi mag release, bad-ass pro ambi safety, bcm qd endplate then re-stake it. I'll stick with the mil-spec Colt trigger since this is going to be a "go-to" type rifle. The Colt's come with the 4 position extension correct? I like the 2nd and 3rd slots of a 6 position.
just build out your aero receiver set if you changing out that much. build it how you want, it's ridiculously easy, so easy in fact that my 11 and 13yr old son built their first ARs during Covid. That was under my direction of course
ViperTwoSix
11-22-20, 10:27
Add my vote for build out the lower you have, since you’d be changing so much on it anyway. Triggers aren’t that hard to install, so you can still put in a great trigger of your choice.
Save the $400 you would have spent on the lower and put it towards your Upper.
I'm going to keep the Aero lower and build another with that. I want to have at least 2 AR's in case the Dem's win the senate which means we lose our semi-auto rifles. Not the ones we have but buying new ones.
You know I could always just take my stripped lower and all the parts to a gun smith and have them build it. That way it would be done correctly and still be the way I want. Then I could buy another stripped lower and use that one to learn to do it myself.
Dr. Bullseye
11-22-20, 13:40
I know, I am crazy BUT the OP wants reliability in his SHTF rifle (this is a little off topic). I installed M*Carbo Extra Strenght mag springs in all my mags (USGI and Polymer). I have not had a malfunction in over a year. M*Carbo says their springs will clear up 70% of feed problems. It is an easy, cheap upgrade for at least those initial , favorite mags you never want to fail.
https://www.mcarbo.com/ar-15-extra-power-mag-spring.aspx
If you're a novice at AR building and this is a serious use rifle--I'd suggest taking the solid advice you were given and get a complete rifle from one of the quality rifle makers that were listed. If you are serious about depending for your life on this rifle, don't cut corners, buy a complete rifle or at least a complete upper and a complete lower. If you want a specific suggestion, here's an in-stock rifle from a solid builder with a great reputation, this is what I'd get today if just starting: Sionics Patrol Rifle (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/home/9-patrol-ssk-12.html). Tip: If you get that rifle, the "upgrade to 2-stage trigger" option is well worth it, I have that trigger in another rifle.
Actually because of the ambi requirements I would differ from others in the thread and say just buy an LMT and call it a day.
Yes. Or a Geissele Super Duty (but more spendy). Or a Sionics, and just contact them after you've made your online order to upgrade selector and mag release to ambi, they'll do it.
I know, I am crazy BUT the OP wants reliability in his SHTF rifle (this is a little off topic). I installed M*Carbo Extra Strenght mag springs in all my mags (USGI and Polymer). I have not had a malfunction in over a year. M*Carbo says their springs will clear up 70% of feed problems. It is an easy, cheap upgrade for at least those initial , favorite mags you never want to fail.
https://www.mcarbo.com/ar-15-extra-power-mag-spring.aspx
Sounds like a gimmick from a company that’s never been mentioned here. I’ve had Gen M3 pmags ever since they came out and never had a malfunction either, plus they’re actually designed by a reputable company.
OP, Colt lower for $400 isn’t bad in today’s climate and likely won’t get any better. Honestly I’d probably buy it and use as is until you’ve collected the parts for your Aero lower. The stuff you’re planning on swapping is like 75% of what’s on there... and aftermarket triggers are far from a liability as long as you don’t buy junk.
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Sounds like a gimmick from a company that’s never been mentioned here. I’ve had Gen M3 pmags ever since they came out and never had a malfunction either, plus they’re actually designed by a reputable company.
OP, Colt lower for $400 isn’t bad in today’s climate and likely won’t get any better. Honestly I’d probably buy it and use as is until you’ve collected the parts for your Aero lower. The stuff you’re planning on swapping is like 75% of what’s on there... and aftermarket triggers are far from a liability as long as you don’t buy junk.
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have to agree on ALL counts here, well stated
If you're a novice at AR building and this is a serious use rifle--I'd suggest taking the solid advice you were given and get a complete rifle from one of the quality rifle makers that were listed. If you are serious about depending for your life on this rifle, don't cut corners, buy a complete rifle or at least a complete upper and a complete lower. If you want a specific suggestion, here's an in-stock rifle from a solid builder with a great reputation, this is what I'd get today if just starting: Sionics Patrol Rifle (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/home/9-patrol-ssk-12.html). Tip: If you get that rifle, the "upgrade to 2-stage trigger" option is well worth it, I have that trigger in another rifle.
Looks like a very solid rifle. I'd want to get the gas block pinned. I can't afford the entire rifle now but I could swing the lower. I like that the lower ALOT. It comes with a staked qd endplate, enhanced mil-spec trigger (probably np3 like the bcm pnt) , h-buffer with a springco blue spring, ambi safety, magpul grip and rounded trigger guard. If I buy this lower for $445 ( this price includes an ambi safety, pmag, magpul sl stock) the only addition I'd need is the arms unlimitd ambi mag release for $25. Says it won't ship for 6-8 weeks but it seems like a great option for me. The mag release is the one thing I've done before and there is seriously nothing to it at all.
Also Max, I may very well just spend and extra $40 for their 2 stage nib trigger. I just read the description of it and it has FULL WEIGHT Hammer spring. That is very important from what I understand and I believe the Geissele triggers do the same thing correct?
The lower total after shipping and FFL transfer plus the ambi mag release would total either $460 or $500 depending on trigger. This seems like a good fit for me.
1500 for a basic rifle is steep, I know some guys like the sionics stuff but that patrol rifle is way too pricey for the parts list. Is there something I'm missing?
Building a lower is not hard. Granted, guys screw it up all the time, but these guys aren’t seeking advice from experts. The only critical part (granted you’ve got good parts) is torquing the RE to spec with anti-seize and staking it. Buy a BEV block, a good armorer’s wrench and a torque wrench and some aero shell and you’re good. It’s not rocket science. Buy a complete upper from DD/BCM/SIONICS/Colt/Centurion/SOLGW/Geissele and snap it together.
The ambi parts you want won’t be on a factory lower. I wouldn’t build an upper if I were you.
Sometimes, you just have to go right for le coup de grace.
https://v1tactical.com/product/mars-l/
Sometimes, you just have to go right for le coup de grace.
https://v1tactical.com/product/mars-l/
V1tactical needs an editor/technical writer
I just look at the dollar sign and numbers... So far, always got what I ordered.
lazerblazer
11-23-20, 00:46
Rainier Arms has been a solid company to use. They have BCM lowers in stock. https://www.rainierarms.com/bcm-lower-group-no-stock-ar15/
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I just read the description of it and it has FULL WEIGHT Hammer spring. That is very important from what I understand and I believe the Geissele triggers do the same thing correct?
The Geissele SSA-E triggers I use in several other rifles do use full force hammer springs for enhanced reliability. The 2-stage Sionics is a version of the Schmid 1005 trigger that is rebranded and sold by a number of AR builders/retailers--it's a solid middle-of-road trigger that is a worthwhile upgrade from milspec, while being more cost-effective than say a Geissele.
"Looking to build no frills, highly reliable *shtf* type AR."
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fffp4g1ylyit3jdyti1hqcvtb-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com%2Fcareers%2Ffiles%2F2020%2F03%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1
"Looking to build no frills, highly reliable *shtf* type AR."
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fffp4g1ylyit3jdyti1hqcvtb-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com%2Fcareers%2Ffiles%2F2020%2F03%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1
Just fyi, this post actually made me want to watch die hard again. I haven't seen it in probably 20 years. It ages well, still a great movie and YES IT'S A CHRISTMAS MOVIE DAMNIT!
robbins290
12-04-20, 09:31
I have been looking for a no thrills standard A4 clone. 20" with removable carry handle, usgi handguard, and standard stock. Been tempted to grab a windham weaponry as there in stock at there retail store. Will be a range gun only.
Red the Monkey
12-04-20, 11:11
Yeah I don’t know for some weird reason I like the way that A4’s look I don’t use mine as much as the 16 inch, nostalgia I guess
robbins290
12-04-20, 11:30
Red, They just feel right to me. Love how they shoot also.
This forum has taught me alot! This place AND hours reading and researching and listening to the ones who know what's what. You'll figure out who they are.
I did as many suggest, and you just cant go wrong doing it and bought a BCM, fine rifle and never failed. Centurion Arms would also rank very very high. BUT, I have built every AR since and in 8 years I've had only a single issue with any and that was an over gassed barrel so not my fault.
I did put out the money for all tools needed, quality tools to. I also never bought ANY junk parts that could even remotely effect function or reliability. Maybe a cheap handguard or two and I'd bet the lives of my wife and daughter on any rifle I own. It can be done but you have to arm yourself with knowledge, patience, top shelf parts and humility. Dont build anything fancy with lightweight bcg and go changing springs. Build simple with parts proven and to an established standard. Listen to others too. It can be done but buying a complete rifle from a top teis maker is just price of mind.
If I buy the Colt lower the only things I'll change are simple things. Trigger guard, Grip, norgon (arms unlimited knock off) ambi mag release, bad-ass pro ambi safety, bcm qd endplate then re-stake it. I'll stick with the mil-spec Colt trigger since this is going to be a "go-to" type rifle. The Colt's come with the 4 position extension correct? I like the 2nd and 3rd slots of a 6 position.
I have mostly 4 position Colt Defense extensions and I have no issues with them. I have one on an SPR and it works for precision well. I would advise against removing it considering Colt Defense makes the best extensions and stakes everything exceptionally well. If you can't swing the Colt get a SOLGW Blaster Pack with enhanced FCG and use your Aero's and get the extension hardware from SOLGW. I can assemble a lower in a few minutes properly, if I don't lose the pivot pin retaining spring and have to search for it.. lol
Dr. Bullseye
12-16-20, 13:09
Since you want a SHTF rifle and S may HTF any day now, who knows? Parts all seem to be in short supply right now. Buying a BCM sounds to me like the best, quickest solution. Maybe you could call BCM, tell them what you want and get a recommendation.
I was recently at a large local sporting goods store. I was surprised they had three Colt Defense 6920 NIB in stock for a reasonable price (normal retail). Given the current political climate and the potential for civil war 2.0 to break out due to loss of election trust, I tend to agree, you should get what you can. I have had luck finding ammo at normal prices in big sporting stores and some manufacturer factory stores. Right now the prices are up and down and lots of junk ammo online going for too dollar 200-300% or more in some cases. If you can find a decent duty grade rifle I would go for it. And make sure you get mags they are available at Cabelas and Bass Pro for $13 each. Most bulk buys are not that great right now for ammo but I would bite the bullet if I were in such a position.
davidjinks
12-17-20, 12:13
To each their own in regards to building your. Why not just buy a factory lightweight build from one of the many awesome manufacturers. Daniel Defense, BCM, Colt.........
***UPDATE 10/14/21***
So I've gone ahead and started to make some orders. So far here is what I have or have on the way
Lower - stripped gen 2 aero lower (on the way)
Upper - aero precision standard mil-spec upper with forward assist and port door installed (on the way)
Buffer - bcm 3.8oz h buffer (have)
Buffer spring - springco white spring (have)
Endplate - bcm qd (have)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
So I'm simply looking to build up a nice quality AR with the sole purpose of self defense/shtf. When I say SHTF I really just mean something rugged and reliable. I shoot lefty so an ambi mag release, safety and ch are a must. Ambi bolt release not so much since I usually just use my trigger finger to drop the bolt. So far I've decided for sure on a few pieces of the build. The barrel and BCG.
BARREL
The barrel will be a 16" Spikes/FN chf mid-length "optimum" barrel. Haven't decided if I want the A2FSGB and use a 9.5" free float or go with the single pinned and set screw with a 12-13.5" handguard. Either way same outcome.
BCG
Looking to get a microbest. I'd like a fathers of freedom from PSA but they're out of stock. BCM or SOLGW will most likely be the BCG I choose.
MAG RELEASE AND SAFETY
Geissele maritime bolt release
Troy ambi mag release
OR
FCD rear biased bolt catch with their standard length ambi mag release.
Other than that I'm still trying to gather idea's. First I'd like to decide on a forged upper/lower. I'd like to get a set made from the same manufacturer. Right now I think an Aero m4e1 lower with a standard Aero upper so I can use any handguard is where I'm leaning. Biggest issue is trying to find an upper and lower in stock from the same company.
I currently have a springco white spring and H Buffer so I'll probably start out with that combo and see how it runs once I decide on everything and make my orders. I also already have a BCM qd endplate and an ikickhippies endplate so that's taken care of whichever one I decide to use.
Far as the LPK and trigger I'm open. I think a standard mil-spec single stage trigger would suite my needs just fine. Maybe something like an ALG ACT or BCM PNT. I'd also consider the right to bear arms pnt 5.5 lb trigger since I used to have one and loved it.
The LPK I just want something basic that is non mim. Maybe CMMG or something like that?
Well that's just some of my quick thoughts and would love any and all feedback and ideas.
Oh, another goal is to keep this build as lightweight as I can given the barrel I chose. The optic will be a red dot- most likely a Trijicon MRO with a qd lower 1/3rd mount. Light will be a surefire scout m300 z68 tailcap. Other than that I don't plan to use anything else for add-on's except possibly a vert grip.
Hey, I see you have not mentioned anything about a nice SHTF optic to put on this carbine. However, since I think you would eventually want something, I would recommend an LPVO with an etched reticle. I specifically suggest the Trijicon AccuPoint TR24 or TR25 for this role. They are lightweight, rugged/reliable, don't have to worry with electronics and they don't rely on batteries for illumination. Their fiber optic illumination will last lifetimes and always be there as long as there is sunlight or an ambient lightsource. When there isn't, there is still a nice dark etched reticle.
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