View Full Version : SIG wins ACOG replacement contract?
Heck, I thought the ACOG would never go away:
"SIG Sauer Electro-Optics have been awarded a major contract to provide the US Army’s new Direct View Optic (DVO) which will be used on the current M4A1 carbine, replacing the venerable ACOG . An award notice was posted on Sam.Gov at the end of last month with the value of the contract listed as $77,168,400."
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/10/08/us-army-awards-sig-sauer-optics-major-contract-for-direct-view-optic/
Interesting that they are going all-in on the LVPO. I think that is the same optic that got a SOCOM contract a couple years ago.
From the Beta.SAM notice:
Description
Under Other Transaction Agreements (OTA) authority, pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 2371b, the U.S. Army Contracting Command - New Jersey (ACC-NJ), awarded a Follow-on Production OTA to:
- Sig Sauer Inc. , Newington, NH; P-OTA Number: Wl5QKN209P950
These Production -OTA will enhance squad performance with a variable power magnification from 1.0x to maximum magnification of 6.0x to enable Soldier to engage close quarter targets and targets at extended ranges. This allows the Soldier to have both critical capabilities without the limitations of either non magnified or fixed magnification optics. This P-OTA period of performance is up to 5 years with delivery of Direct View Optics beginning 30 days after award.
In accordance with 10 U.S.C. 237lb(f), the prototype project under W15QKN-19-9-1029 was determined to be successfully completed.
I'd be interested in see what the reticle looks like.
BoringGuy45
10-09-20, 09:06
This is why Ron Cohan keeps getting jobs in the gun industry: He may cheapen products and change the customer service MO to "If you have a gripe about our products, you can cram it up your ass," but he makes the companies BIG money. Sig seems to control everything defense contract related. Them and Lockheed-Martin.
I still see the Next Gen SAW and rifle system as going nowhere, but I think when the rubble clears, it's possible that either the MCX or the 516 becomes the Army's next service rifle. Sig is practically the DOD's official single source small arms armory.
This is why Ron Cohan keeps getting jobs in the gun industry: He may cheapen products and change the customer service MO to "If you have a gripe about our products, you can cram it up your ass," but he makes the companies BIG money. Sig seems to control everything defense contract related. Them and Lockheed-Martin.
I still see the Next Gen SAW and rifle system as going nowhere, but I think when the rubble clears, it's possible that either the MCX or the 516 becomes the Army's next service rifle. Sig is practically the DOD's official single source small arms armory.
Add Northrop-Grumman and General Dynamics to that list....
It'll be interesting to see what happens when the Glock, S&B, and NF contracts are up....
WickedWillis
10-09-20, 10:58
Interesting that they are going all-in on the LVPO. I think that is the same optic that got a SOCOM contract a couple years ago.
Must be very robust to be even thought of to replace the ACOG. Hopefully we get to see it on the civilian side soon.
Ever since the P320 drop fiasco, Sig really hasn't missed.
I had no idea SIG made an optic that wasn't a piece of chinamart garbage.
Hoping some of those ACOGs find their way to the secondary market.
I had no idea SIG made an optic that wasn't a piece of chinamart garbage.
Hoping some of those ACOGs find their way to the secondary market.
The 1-6x optic SOCOM bought is really good, according to some friends. Me, I've no experience. I would have thought the same thing as you, I look at their optics with a little skepticism.
I don't know if the army is getting them pennies on the dollar, or if they got some sweet bennie's to go with it, because Nightforce and Schmidt and Bender are still contracted.
But yeah, I could deal with a much-reduced ACOG.
The 1-6x optic SOCOM bought is really good, according to some friends. Me, I've no experience. I would have thought the same thing as you, I look at their optics with a little skepticism.
Is that the Tango 6T? Just looked at it and prices are LOLworthy. If we are going above a grand we are doing NF, S&B, Swarovski or Zeiss.
Is that the Tango 6T? Just looked at it and prices are LOLworthy. If we are going above a grand we are doing NF, S&B, Swarovski or Zeiss.
Why do you exclude Vortex? I see them recommended a lot on this forum.
Is that the Tango 6T? Just looked at it and prices are LOLworthy. If we are going above a grand we are doing NF, S&B, Swarovski or Zeiss.
Yeah, I think so. Close to $2,000 I think for us mortals, but I'm sure they're paying a whole hell of a lot less than that.
MountainRaven
10-09-20, 20:40
The 1-6x optic SOCOM bought is really good, according to some friends. Me, I've no experience. I would have thought the same thing as you, I look at their optics with a little skepticism.
I have no experience, either, but according to some of my friends, they're OK at leveling super wobbly tables while NF actually get used on rifles.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had no idea SIG made an optic that wasn't a piece of chinamart garbage.
Hoping some of those ACOGs find their way to the secondary market.
Agreed. I hope to see ACOGs at Aimpoint prices one day...a guy can dream.
Do all ACOG's that need repair/refurbishment go back to Trijicon for that?
For those in the know, who make the scopes for Sig.
This is why Ron Cohan keeps getting jobs in the gun industry: He may cheapen products and change the customer service MO to "If you have a gripe about our products, you can cram it up your ass," but he makes the companies BIG money. Sig seems to control everything defense contract related. Them and Lockheed-Martin.
I still see the Next Gen SAW and rifle system as going nowhere, but I think when the rubble clears, it's possible that either the MCX or the 516 becomes the Army's next service rifle. Sig is practically the DOD's official single source small arms armory.
If I was a bettin' man, and assuming either would be the choice, I'd lay my $$$ on the MCX as opposed to the 516.
Just my $.02.
BoringGuy45
10-09-20, 21:43
If I was a bettin' man, and assuming either would be the choice, I'd lay my $$$ on the MCX as opposed to the 516.
Just my $.02.
I would as well. I haven't handled one since it was first released five years ago. I didn't like it then though.
I would like to know the weight of the optic and which mount is selected. They have to be considering weight and durability... read the article yesterday or whenever, don’t recall if it mentioned.
Checked: over 20oz for the Tango6, assume over 7oz for the mount. What’s an ACOG, like 15oz?
Why do you exclude Vortex? I see them recommended a lot on this forum.
Because 1. I've never really heard of them before, 2. I haven't heard any reliable recommendations from anyone noteworthy and 3. a casual search seems to put them in the Bushnell, Nikon, Burris category of optics.
I would like to know the weight of the optic and which mount is selected. They have to be considering weight and durability... read the article yesterday or whenever, don’t recall if it mentioned.
Checked: over 20oz for the Tango6, assume over 7oz for the mount. What’s an ACOG, like 15oz?
Seems LPVO is the new standard. Time to sell off all those ACOGs for pennies on the dollar. Wondering if that damn Clinton military surplus law will prevent it from happening. I wanna see ACOGs at AIM surplus for $150 in Exc. condition. Will be like all those Hendsolt G3 scopes coming over for $200 brand new.
Seems LPVO is the new standard. Time to sell off all those ACOGs for pennies on the dollar. Wondering if that damn Clinton military surplus law will prevent it from happening. I wanna see ACOGs at AIM surplus for $150 in Exc. condition. Will be like all those Hendsolt G3 scopes coming over for $200 brand new.
I would like this world.
For those in the know, who make the scopes for Sig.
According to this article, they are manuf in Oregon. Also according to the article, It was used by a participant on the AMU. So it already looks like Sig had a hook.
https://soldiersystems.net/2018/05/10/us-army-selects-sig-optic-for-squad-designated-marksman-rifle/
According to this article, they are manuf in Oregon. Also according to the article, It was used by a participant on the AMU. So it already looks like Sig had a hook.
https://soldiersystems.net/2018/05/10/us-army-selects-sig-optic-for-squad-designated-marksman-rifle/It's a nuance, but "assembled" is not the same as mfg'd.
As some have commented, other high quality scope manufacturers also just assemble in the US with parts made overseas.
Heck, just buy a Holosun and be secure in the knowledge that it's 100% Chinese sourced/manufactured/assembled :D
BoringGuy45
10-10-20, 07:39
This makes me wonder about the fate of Aimpoints and EOTechs. Will LVPOs just replace ACOGs or will they replace red dots as well? From my understanding, the fact that LVPOs are not parallax free makes them still very much inferior in CQB to red dot sights, but obviously a hell of a lot better than a fixed magnification sight like an ACOG. I just wonder what the cost/benefit is of having a LVPO compared to a red dot/magnifier combo.
I would like this world.
I second...seeing ACOGs for even $500 I would jump on it...
According to this article, they are manuf in Oregon. Also according to the article, It was used by a participant on the AMU. So it already looks like Sig had a hook.
https://soldiersystems.net/2018/05/10/us-army-selects-sig-optic-for-squad-designated-marksman-rifle/
Thanks.
I'm not surprised that Daniel Horner used Sig optics, he is a Sig sponsored shooter. But with his skills, he could win with a $200 optics.
Bring on the surplus!
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Dr. Bullseye
10-10-20, 13:06
I had no idea SIG made an optic that wasn't a piece of chinamart garbage.
Hoping some of those ACOGs find their way to the secondary market.
I am going to tell Trump. I thought we were getting China out of our supply chain? Guys, all those optics are made in one factory in Guangdong, China, all makes, models, brands and components. It really would not surprise me if components for Trijicon and Aimpoint were made there too.
Hang onto your ACOGs and Confederate Money.....
Their RDS is a joke and below Holosun and Ron Cohen is a war profiteer who deserves to rot in darkest hell.
He’s like a real life Dick Jones.
“Who CARES if it works or not?! Enough spare parts and sales for 10 years guaranteed!”
Remember that’s somebody’s child or father betting it all on an optic of dubious origin.
SIG legit disgusts me and if anybody is able to correct me, I will stand corrected but they are skeevy and I will not buy anything from them.
I thought Sig optics were made in multiple places like Philippines, Japan, US and China.
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Their Bravo-series optics are made in China. Not sure about the other stuff.
Is that the Tango 6T? Just looked at it and prices are LOLworthy. If we are going above a grand we are doing NF, S&B, Swarovski or Zeiss.
Yes and no. Sign high end optics are made in Oregon if I remember correctly. Sig hired away quite a bit of Leupold’s design and engineering talent a number of years back simply for this reason, government contracts.
I am going to tell Trump. I thought we were getting China out of our supply chain? Guys, all those optics are made in one factory in Guangdong, China, all makes, models, brands and components. It really would not surprise me if components for Trijicon and Aimpoint were made there too.
Made in Oregon, look at my post above.
Made in Oregon or “Made” in Oregon?
Everybody chumps on HK USA but they fail to realize you are essentially getting a German gun that is juuuuuuuust “American” enough to keep the Import BS at bay. That’s partially why they are crazy expensive. (That and Hk being HK).
So this whole “made in USA” spiel can work for or against.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-10-20, 18:34
"He’s like a real life Dick Jones. "
Hahahahha. So true.
Hang onto your ACOGs and Confederate Money.....
Their RDS is a joke and below Holosun and Ron Cohen is a war profiteer who deserves to rot in darkest hell.
He’s like a real life Dick Jones.
“Who CARES if it works or not?! Enough spare parts and sales for 10 years guaranteed!”
Remember that’s somebody’s child or father betting it all on an optic of dubious origin.
SIG legit disgusts me and if anybody is able to correct me, I will stand corrected but they are skeevy and I will not buy anything from them.
No argument with any of that.
I think some models like the 2022 were all made in Germany, but last I checked SIG optics, especially that fake dot were z grade china mart crap.
I also happen to think that 320 is a serious piece of idiot garbage. But at the end of the day, it is the US military who decides to buy this crap or buy serious stuff. If everyone buys a Taurus Judge, they will make a Taurus Judge.
The sad fact is people who will spend the money to have bullet proof, excessively reliable guns and gear are the minority. That is why gun shops aren't full of Knights rifles but they do have a full selection of Core 15s and a dozen off brands covered in punisher skull camo.
ACOG and VCOG main bodies are machined right here in Michigan.
I am going to tell Trump. I thought we were getting China out of our supply chain? Guys, all those optics are made in one factory in Guangdong, China, all makes, models, brands and components. It really would not surprise me if components for Trijicon and Aimpoint were made there too.
For those wanting surplus ACOG's keep your eves peeled.
Classic Firearms - We Found U.S. Military Trijicon ACOG Scopes!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mi4UQGKO8I&t=152s
sold out already.
https://www.classicfirearms.com/trijicon-acog-rco-4x32-rifle-scope-red-tritium-chevron-reticle-military-turn-in-various-conditions/
Averageman
10-10-20, 23:01
I've owned a couple of Sig USA rifles, early when they first came out.
Both were troublesome and poorly built, great idea, they just didn't seem capable of turning out a quality firearm at the time. Add to that they had some very frustrating people at Customer Service.
Long, long, story cut short, they sent me some RDS's to try, they were junk.
I managed to trade that junk Sig carbine off and ended up with an M1A.
I gave a friend one of the red dots and I was very hesitant to gift it to him because they were of such poor quality.
Seems LPVO is the new standard. Time to sell off all those ACOGs for pennies on the dollar. Wondering if that damn Clinton military surplus law will prevent it from happening. I wanna see ACOGs at AIM surplus for $150 in Exc. condition. Will be like all those Hendsolt G3 scopes coming over for $200 brand new.
Not going to happen. Buddy of mine just watched Trijicon SHRED 800 Acogs which were being replaced.....by NEW ACOGS....
DOE budget needs looking at...
Made in Oregon or “Made” in Oregon?
Everybody chumps on HK USA but they fail to realize you are essentially getting a German gun that is juuuuuuuust “American” enough to keep the Import BS at bay. That’s partially why they are crazy expensive. (That and Hk being HK).
So this whole “made in USA” spiel can work for or against.
I like Leupold in general, but I always wonder if they have shipping containers rolling in from China full of parts for a "Made in USA" scope.
Andy
I like Leupold in general, but I always wonder if they have shipping containers rolling in from China full of parts for a "Made in USA" scope.
AndyLeopold is honest enough to admit it. They are "assembled" in the US from components made overseas.
Just like Chevy full size pickups "assembled" in the US from sub assemblies (engine, trans, body panels, components) made in Mexico and China.
I want to say it was John Deere compact tractors that every major component and assembly with manufactured in low-cost countries, shipped to the US and just bolted together here so they could claim made in America.
Made in Oregon or “Made” in Oregon?
Everybody chumps on HK USA but they fail to realize you are essentially getting a German gun that is juuuuuuuust “American” enough to keep the Import BS at bay. That’s partially why they are crazy expensive. (That and Hk being HK).
So this whole “made in USA” spiel can work for or against.
Lol, they do like many manufacturers do anymore, some are farmed out, but their top of the line is manufactured entirely in Oregon. I know their Tango 6 is for sure, anything else is a guess. If I were to guess I’d say they follow along the lines of Vortex? I do know they hired a few former Leupold engineers, and other misc. former Leupold employees.
Not going to happen. Buddy of mine just watched Trijicon SHRED 800 Acogs which were being replaced.....by NEW ACOGS....
There should be a law against frivolously destroying things paid for by taxes. :mad:
Dr. Bullseye
10-11-20, 18:18
Made in Oregon, look at my post above.
Well then perhaps you can give us the actual address of the plant making the components? I think a couple optics are assembled in Oregon just to say they were "made" in Oregon.
hotrodder636
10-11-20, 20:43
Sig continues to crush the .gov contracts. I know we went from Colt M4s to Sig MCX SBRs at my work.
You’d thing OIG or whoever oversees DoD procurement would be looking at all of these contracts and be thinking... wait a minute.
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There should be a law against frivolously destroying things paid for by taxes. :mad:
There is actually a law passed by Clinton to prevents most things military from becoming government surplus, and that law didn't have a sunset clause.
titsonritz
10-11-20, 22:53
Made in Oregon, look at my post above.
Yep, Wilsonville to be precise. I drive by them on a regular basis. They have been ramping up the last few months...
https://www.careerarc.com/job-search/sig-sauer-jobs-in-wilsonville-or.html
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/sig-sauer-inc-jobs-wilsonville-or?position=1&pageNum=0
titsonritz
10-11-20, 22:55
Well then perhaps you can give us the actual address of the plant making the components? I think a couple optics are assembled in Oregon just to say they were "made" in Oregon.
27100 SW Parkway Ave, Wilsonville, OR 97070
With regard to the red dots comment, the Romeo 1, 3 and 7 series are made in Japan. The Romeo 4, 8 and zero series are "assembled" in the USA.
All the rest are pure Chinese.
dwhitehorne
10-17-20, 20:24
Everyone talking about made in USA. Does any US made scope have glass that is made in the USA? Does the USA even manufacture optic quality glass anymore? David
Everyone talking about made in USA. Does any US made scope have glass that is made in the USA? Does the USA even manufacture optic quality glass anymore? David
I have Redfields from the 70s that are still clear as day. One lives on my Model 99 Savage .300
2-7x Wideview
And a 4x on my 629 has a fairly forgiving relief.
And the Mark 4s are Mark 4s. Nuff said.
But I don’t see myself really caring about Leupold anymore. I mean Optics are the future but I just don’t care for Sig these days and am super skeptical of all they do
One lives on my Model 99 Savage .300 Optics
I am both impressed and envious.
Euro may take away your "all you really need is a 6920 and a g19" founding member card. (But looks like he fell off that wagon as well)
Savage 99s are one of those "I should have bought them when they were cheap" cases. Not because they've appreciated, just because they've gotten kind of silly in pricing.
They were the hot assault rifle turn of the century, the previous one.
I'm not so much a cowboy lever action fan but I could love me a Savage 99. But I do see some appeal in pistol caliber lever actions as well. Would love to have one in 357 or 41 with a matching Blackhawk with 4-in barrels. I bought my son a beater Blackhawk in 41 mag to hunt with, and it is one of our favorite pistols to shoot. And is deadly on game.
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