View Full Version : Canted noveske gas block
I recently bought and installed a noveske switchblock barrel and NSR rail on an M5 upper. Installation was uneventful. I finished up the handguard screws, and went to admire my handiwork, when I noticed that the gas block (switchblock, in this case) was canted. I took the handguard off and inspected the barrel, and determined the gas block pin was drilled at an incorrect angle, causing the issue.
I emailed noveske, and received the following response.
"This shouldn’t be an issue. We hand drill each barrel and gas block together, with acceptable + and – fit tolerance. Although your switchblock favors one side, you should not experience any reliability issues.
Please reach out if you have any further questions!"
Am I being unreasonable to think this response is a bit lackadaisical?63983 Picture for reference, but it is more apparent in person.
Unreasonable.
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More garbage from Noveske. No surprise. Maybe Olympic Arms can buy them out.
chamber143
10-10-20, 10:07
Have you tried to shoot it? Any issues? Otherwise i would not worry about it. Truth be told though, for the prices Noveske charges, i would expect and maybe demand better. With the covid panic, it seems most companies are pushing stuff so hard, that they are all putting out some lack luster stuff.
Leonidas24
10-10-20, 14:31
I'd be less concerned with the appearance or position of the gas block as I would what it is doing to the gas tube. That much torque on the tube could cause issues with fitment to the gas key on the BCG.
For that kind of money I would be on the phone with them.
for the amount of money they charge for their barrels that seems unacceptable to me.
I'd be less concerned with the appearance or position of the gas block as I would what it is doing to the gas tube. That much torque on the tube could cause issues with fitment to the gas key on the BCG.
This was my thought as well.
Have you tried to shoot it? Any issues? Otherwise i would not worry about it. Truth be told though, for the prices Noveske charges, i would expect and maybe demand better. With the covid panic, it seems most companies are pushing stuff so hard, that they are all putting out some lack luster stuff.
No, not yet. Assuming the holes in the block and barrel line up, I can see problems down the road stemming from the connection between the gas tube and bcg key, being that they won't be connecting in a parallel fashion. Someone more knowledgeable than myself will have to tell me what symptoms I would expect to see when that became a problem.
I recently bought and installed a noveske switchblock barrel and NSR rail on an M5 upper. Installation was uneventful. I finished up the handguard screws, and went to admire my handiwork, when I noticed that the gas block (switchblock, in this case) was canted. I took the handguard off and inspected the barrel, and determined the gas block pin was drilled at an incorrect angle, causing the issue.
I emailed noveske, and received the following response.
"This shouldn’t be an issue. We hand drill each barrel and gas block together, with acceptable + and – fit tolerance. Although your switchblock favors one side, you should not experience any reliability issues.
Please reach out if you have any further questions!"
Am I being unreasonable to think this response is a bit lackadaisical?63983 Picture for reference, but it is more apparent in person.
I recently bought and installed a noveske switchblock barrel and NSR rail on an M5 upper. Installation was uneventful. I finished up the handguard screws, and went to admire my handiwork, when I noticed that the gas block (switchblock, in this case) was canted. I took the handguard off and inspected the barrel, and determined the gas block pin was drilled at an incorrect angle, causing the issue.
I emailed noveske, and received the following response.
"This shouldn’t be an issue. We hand drill each barrel and gas block together, with acceptable + and – fit tolerance. Although your switchblock favors one side, you should not experience any reliability issues.
Please reach out if you have any further questions!"
Am I being unreasonable to think this response is a bit lackadaisical?63983 Picture for reference, but it is more apparent in person.
1- For clarification, the switchblock was prefit and drilled for that barrel?
2- Noveske uses a drillpress and jig, whomever you received that email from has no idea what they are talking about.
3- Write back and ask what written policy they have for acceptable +/- tolerance for switchblocks, and as to see it.
4- There are multiple AR15 armorers on this board, including myself, and none of them are impressed with that installation if it is assembled properly.
ETA 5- I would wonder how the extension / index pin is in relation to the port, I would also wonder about gas tube alignment.
1- For clarification, the switchblock was prefit and drilled for that barrel?
2- Noveske uses a drillpress and jig, whomever you received that email from has no idea what they are talking about.
3- Write back and ask what written policy they have for acceptable +/- tolerance for switchblocks, and as to see it.
4- There are multiple AR15 armorers on this board, including myself, and none of them are impressed with that installation if it is assembled properly.
ETA 5- I would wonder how the extension / index pin is in relation to the port, I would also wonder about gas tube alignment.
Correct, they were purchased together, sold as a unit. Response was from a Mason Davis in customer service.
I'm going to take it all back down to see what, exactly, is off.
chamber143
10-11-20, 11:43
1- For clarification, the switchblock was prefit and drilled for that barrel?
2- Noveske uses a drillpress and jig, whomever you received that email from has no idea what they are talking about.
3- Write back and ask what written policy they have for acceptable +/- tolerance for switchblocks, and as to see it.
4- There are multiple AR15 armorers on this board, including myself, and none of them are impressed with that installation if it is assembled properly.
ETA 5- I would wonder how the extension / index pin is in relation to the port, I would also wonder about gas tube alignment.
Put in words better than my hands could type it. Too many companies are justifying sloppy work these days and saying that it is within tolereance. Not bashing Noveske, i have two of their lowers and sbr'd them due to perfect fit of the parts and finish. But i feel for the price of noveske, it shouldnt be put together like a psa. Just my 2 cents which my wife tells me no one cares about. So theres that
Put in words better than my hands could type it. Too many companies are justifying sloppy work these days and saying that it is within tolereance. Not bashing Noveske, i have two of their lowers and sbr'd them due to perfect fit of the parts and finish. But i feel for the price of noveske, it shouldnt be put together like a psa. Just my 2 cents which my wife tells me no one cares about. So theres that
I care. I hate to see the company that belonged to a friend run into the dirt by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. If the individual is speaking for the company, as to speak to the general manager, though I confess I'm not even sure who that is anymore.
Again, if it were myself, I would be pressing on the question of what their written policy is regarding canted gas block. I will also point out that you need to get a measurement regarding how much yours is off. If it is 2 degrees off, maybe its not an issue. If its 5 degrees, is that the tipping point? I don't recall off the top of my head what is considered acceptable by the military. It would be nice if someone else could find and post it. In an absence of written guidelines with Noveske, the sticking point will be what the military considers acceptable.
Get us that measurement on your piece.
chamber143
10-11-20, 13:12
I care. I hate to see the company that belonged to a friend run into the dirt by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. If the individual is speaking for the company, as to speak to the general manager, though I confess I'm not even sure who that is anymore.
Again, if it were myself, I would be pressing on the question of what their written policy is regarding canted gas block. I will also point out that you need to get a measurement regarding how much yours is off. If it is 2 degrees off, maybe its not an issue. If its 5 degrees, is that the tipping point? I don't recall off the top of my head what is considered acceptable by the military. It would be nice if someone else could find and post it. In an absence of written guidelines with Noveske, the sticking point will be what the military considers acceptable.
Get us that measurement on your piece.
Thanks for caring. I agree. The noveske stuff I have was from before he died and it is top notch fit and finish. I have bought nothing but bcm since and it has all been top quality too but nowhere as nice of a finish as my noveske sbr lower. It is the finest finish I have seen to date. Some of the stuff I see from them lately that friends have have been ho hum to be honest.
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Pretty stupid on Noveske's part to respond the way they did. Now this is gonna be all over the forums which are frequented by large numbers of potential customers. Trying to save a dime is gonna cost them a lot more in the long run. I only own a couple Noveske pieces from the era of when Jon was still with us, a chainsaw upper and a 10.5 stainless barrel that I installed myself. And damn if it isn't the nicest barrel I've ever owned.
Pretty stupid on Noveske's part to respond the way they did. Now this is gonna be all over the forums which are frequented by large numbers of potential customers. Trying to save a dime is gonna cost them a lot more in the long run. I only own a couple Noveske pieces from the era of when Jon was still with us, a chainsaw upper and a 10.5 stainless barrel that I installed myself. And damn if it isn't the nicest barrel I've ever owned.
One person sitting behind a keyboard is to blame for that reply, if the reply is backed up by the GM, than that is the fault of the company.
chamber143
10-11-20, 14:42
One person sitting behind a keyboard is to blame for that reply, if the reply is backed up by the GM, than that is the fault of the company.
Being a business owner myself, your people represent you and your business and it sucks that one jerk makes one comment and it spreads like wildfire. U have to be careful who you employ but at the end of the day bad employees are everywhere now. Noveske has been going down hill for a while and although the price premium used to be worth it for their stuff, I’m not sure it is anymore. Maybe it is but the small sample size I’ve seen don’t seem any better than other companies who’s stuff isn’t nearly as high
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One person sitting behind a keyboard is to blame for that reply, if the reply is backed up by the GM, than that is the fault of the company.
That's a fair point, Stick, but at the same time somebody did hire that person to speak on behalf of the company. I guess we'll just have to see how this shakes out. Here's hoping they make it right.
Wow, from a company that built a name on cosmetically perfect guns with hand matched upper and lowers this is a joke.
For what they charge this is a joke.
Aperently Noveske is becoming a very high priced joke.
I've reached out to Mason requesting their tolerances. Will break the barrel down later this week and post findings.
I had a similar situation happen to me recently with a more favorable response. I purchased a 11.5" assembled SOLGW upper. I noticed the gas block was slightly canted, so shot an email to their CS to get their opinion. The aesthetic doesn't bother me, as it's under a rail, but I wanted to make sure it wouldn't cause issues down the road.
I was told that all of their assembled uppers are test fired, QC'd, and function checked before leaving their shop. He said the gas block was obviously missed on QC, but that the upper should function fine. However, he said he'd send me an RMA number to replace it if I had any issues or even if I just didn't like the fact the gas block was canted.
I'd be very interested to hear the measurements and what "specs" are. I bought a DSG Arms 11.5" pistol upper and can see the gas block is a smidge out of alignment. It's been sitting in the safe since I bought it(year and a half)and I have still yet to fire it. I'd like to function test this thing if work ever lets up.
Going to keep an eye on this thread.
I'd be very interested to hear the measurements and what "specs" are. I bought a DSG Arms 11.5" pistol upper and can see the gas block is a smidge out of alignment. It's been sitting in the safe since I bought it(year and a half)and I have still yet to fire it. I'd like to function test this thing if work ever lets up.
Going to keep an eye on this thread.
I'll preface with: I'm not a smith or armorer by any means. But, from what I understand, a slight cant will typically not hinder the gas pressure, as the gas port in the barrel is smaller than the one in the gas block, so even if it's canted a bit, it will still not block any of the gas from entering the gas tube. The size of the ports and the severity of the cant will of course vary from barrel to barrel, so I'm not sure if there's a universal acceptable level of cant, but I could be wrong.
As others have said, the bigger issue is what the cant is doing to the gas tube/gas key interface. I would check to ensure they're mating up properly, and if so, I imagine it should be good to go.
I'll preface with: I'm not a smith or armorer by any means. But, from what I understand, a slight cant will typically not hinder the gas pressure, as the gas port in the barrel is smaller than the one in the gas block, so even if it's canted a bit, it will still not block any of the gas from entering the gas tube. The size of the ports and the severity of the cant will of course vary from barrel to barrel, so I'm not sure if there's a universal acceptable level of cant, but I could be wrong.
As others have said, the bigger issue is what the cant is doing to the gas tube/gas key interface. I would check to ensure they're mating up properly, and if so, I imagine it should be good to go.
I need to dig this thing out of the safe and take a closer look. I'm not worried about the looks much but function is top on my list. I agree and would think that gas tube gas/key interface is far more important over the long haul.
So I got everything broken down, and realized that I made a mistake during assembly. When I was punching in the pin, I didn't tighten the set screw enough, and the block twisted on the barrel, causing the block to be canted.
I reassembled, and now everything lines up as it should. I didn't realize the pin could be driven in with the block out of alignment, but it can.
I still feel the response from customer service was lacking, and I have yet to hear back from Mason regarding the technicals on gas block tolerances.
Regardless, apologies for rustling feathers, if I did so.
Nocalsocal
10-15-20, 00:25
I did the same with a Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel. Yeah if you don’t tighten the gas block set screws to set the alignment, driving in the pin can cause the cant.
I also thought I got a bad barrel and gas block but reassembling everything caught my mistake.
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Now we can all lower our pitchforks, shovels, and sabers, and head down to the village bier haus and have a good laugh! :alcoholic:
bamashooter
10-15-20, 07:18
Other than the obviously-apparent issues that torqueing will cause from the offset GB due to improper installation, what's the problem? :rolleyes:
I suspected an alignment issue. Good deal.
It strikes me that the fit of the pin must be sloppy to allow it to go through with a cant?
For me FSB taper pins will align the fsb properly. I understand this is not a taper pin, but it seems loose sloppy to me from what you describe.
All my pinned gas blocks I would not be able to drive the pin through with out perfect alignment.
So I got everything broken down, and realized that I made a mistake during assembly. When I was punching in the pin, I didn't tighten the set screw enough, and the block twisted on the barrel, causing the block to be canted.
I reassembled, and now everything lines up as it should. I didn't realize the pin could be driven in with the block out of alignment, but it can.
I still feel the response from customer service was lacking, and I have yet to hear back from Mason regarding the technicals on gas block tolerances.
Regardless, apologies for rustling feathers, if I did so.
I've never had a Switchblock, so I didn't comment.
For their regular gas blocks the pin is so tight to install I've put it in the freezer overnight before the install. Figured it was the same and someone jacked the drilling jig up, although seemed like an amateur move I would do.
Mike Miller
10-15-20, 10:00
It strikes me that the fit of the pin must be sloppy to allow it to go through with a cant?
For me FSB taper pins will align the fsb properly. I understand this is not a taper pin, but it seems loose sloppy to me from what you describe.
All my pinned gas blocks I would not be able to drive the pin through with out perfect alignment.
The pins align the FSB to the holes drilled. The pins could fit tightly into holes drilled at an incorrect angle
edit: I think you're right in this specific case that his sound loose, just saying that having taper pins can only give alignment to what was done by the factory, which may not be proper
Agreed. I'm no armorer, but I've installed a few barrels. I (incorrectly) thought that the pin ensured proper alignment, and had no room for error.
Odd, the pins should recenter the gasblock / switchblock, but regardless, I'm glad you figured it out. Make sure you email Noveske back and let them know you were able to diagnose the issue.
chamber143
10-15-20, 13:43
Agreed. I'm no armorer, but I've installed a few barrels. I (incorrectly) thought that the pin ensured proper alignment, and had no room for error.
Same here. I had a bcm that the front sight post was so tightly pinned I thought I’d never get them out. There is no way in hades I was going to get those pins in with out perfect alignment
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Thanks for owning up to the mistake.
Noveske is no longer what it was... this kind of problem and response from them is common in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE... saddens me
Noveske is no longer what it was... this kind of problem and response from them is common in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE... saddens me
Yeah, the response wasn’t all that wonderful from the company. Regardless that the problem was a nonevent, there is still the possibility it could have been an actual problem. It’s not all that hard to tell a customer to send something in if they think there is a problem.
I recently purchased a used STS. The seller didn’t send the little screw. I reached out to Noveske to pick up a replacement. Customer service was immediately responsive and sent one out without charge. This isn’t the first time a company has done something like this, but it just happened to coincide with this thread. Not the same as a technical problem, but figured some recognition was worthwhile.
bulletproofwelding_1
10-18-20, 20:41
Is it really that big of a deal? I can see some of you don't like Noveske because of there price but I will say I have 6 or 7 Noveske barrels and they are great if you bought for the right application. You are bitching about a look it is a tool go shoot it and kick in a few door and don't worry about scratches.
Leonidas24
10-18-20, 21:08
Is it really that big of a deal? I can see some of you don't like Noveske because of there price but I will say I have 6 or 7 Noveske barrels and they are great if you bought for the right application. You are bitching about a look it is a tool go shoot it and kick in a few door and don't worry about scratches.
It isn't a matter of not liking Noveske because of the price but rather what you get in 2020 for the price compared to 2010. With that said, read the whole thread. If the gas block is canted ever so slightly it shouldn't be an issue, but with the amount the OP's photo showed it could have lead to issues with proper gas tube/gas key alignment. It turned out to be a nothing burger, and the pitchforks and torches were stowed for another day.
Is it really that big of a deal? I can see some of you don't like Noveske because of there price but I will say I have 6 or 7 Noveske barrels and they are great if you bought for the right application. You are bitching about a look it is a tool go shoot it and kick in a few door and don't worry about scratches.
The issue was never about the visual appeal, but rather the functional effect of a canted block, and further, at what point the deviation would cause a failure of some sort. Failure either deriving from gas ports/holes not lining up correctly, or the gas tube/key connection.
The manufacturer (Noveske, in this case) was quick to point out that the block was within tolerance without ever measuring the deviation, and has yet to provide acceptable tolerances. How he could eyeball acceptable tolerance is beyond me, and seems like a liability to attempt.
Is it really that big of a deal? I can see some of you don't like Noveske because of there price but I will say I have 6 or 7 Noveske barrels and they are great if you bought for the right application. You are bitching about a look it is a tool go shoot it and kick in a few door and don't worry about scratches.
What thread are you reading, because that isn't what I'm getting out of this one...
Is the gas block canted to the barrel and gas port, or is the rail canted as to the barrel pin/upper receiver?
All of their rails, so far as I can tell via their site, index off of the barrel nut. That is more likely to be the cause of a misalignment than the block to barrel/gas port.
Take a pic down the length of the upper showing the relationship of the upper to rail.
There's not enough information so far to farm any kind of a logical opinion about it.
To that end, IMO a FAR superior arrangement is to have the rail index off of the upper receiver and not the barrel nut.
All of their rails, so far as I can tell via their site, index off of the barrel nut. That is more likely to be the cause of a misalignment than the block to barrel/gas port.
if it's a noveske upper the barrel nut needs to be timed properly, but there is also an index/anti-rotation pin that is centered in the rail and the upper. other companies have that hole as well now.
im not sure if his aero upper has the same pin hole though
if it's a noveske upper the barrel nut needs to be timed properly, but there is also an index/anti-rotation pin that is centered in the rail and the upper. other companies have that hole as well now.
im not sure if his aero upper has the same pin hole though
It does not
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READ THE THREAD UPDATE BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS OTHERWISE YOU MAY JUST END UP LOOKING IGNORANT
So I got everything broken down, and realized that I made a mistake during assembly. When I was punching in the pin, I didn't tighten the set screw enough, and the block twisted on the barrel, causing the block to be canted.
I reassembled, and now everything lines up as it should. I didn't realize the pin could be driven in with the block out of alignment, but it can.
I still feel the response from customer service was lacking, and I have yet to hear back from Mason regarding the technicals on gas block tolerances.
Regardless, apologies for rustling feathers, if I did so.
SeriousStudent
10-21-20, 20:56
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READ THE THREAD UPDATE BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS OTHERWISE YOU MAY JUST END UP LOOKING IGNORANT
Agreed.
I'm locking this until the OP gets an additional response from Noveske, then we can open it back up. I'm glad you were able to get it aligned.
Signed - A SwitchBlock Owner.
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