View Full Version : 37 years ago.....lest we forget
Amid all the turmoil of 2020 and the election crap going on right now, this is a dark day in American history.
RIP to those who died in Beirut on Oct. 23, 1983. HUGE waste of life.
Was in Infantry OSUT at Ft. Benning when it happened. Weren't allowed to watch TV but we "heard" about it. I think someone got a newspaper too. It's hard for me to grasp how the country felt, as my world right then was rather isolated but I'm sure the inundation of TV news reports was overwhelming.
Guy a year ahead of me in high school was killed there, Stan Sliwinski.
Diamondback
10-23-20, 12:55
RIP. #NeverForgiveNeverForget
Averageman
10-23-20, 13:11
I was in Germany at the time. 17 miles straight line distance to the Border. I was a 23 year old Tank Commander.
I seem to remember we started exercises during alerts where we started downloading small arms from our Conex's about that time. I think it woke a lot of people up to the seriousness of how bad something can go wrong.
I remember the photo's, complete destruction.
The 197th Infantry Brigade (Mechanized) was a permanent party unit at Ft. Benning then. They had just come back from NTC out in California, and their vehicles were still painted desert camo colors. There was a rail line just down the hill from our basic training barracks on Sand Hill. The train cars with the 197th's APC's and such sat there for a few days. The Drill Sergeants told us the 197th had been told not to unload until further notice. Since this had just gone down in Beirut (kind of desert-ish) and this stuff was already railheaded and painted desert camo we figured "Yeah, makes sense". It was a few days before that stuff disappeared. Looked down that way each morning to see if they were still there. Not to mention that two days later, on the 25th, the U.S. invaded Grenada. Kind of brought a bit of sobering insight to my 18yo ass like "WTF did I get myself into?"
Averageman
10-23-20, 13:56
[QUOTE=ABNAK;2895054 Kind of brought a bit of sobering insight to my 18yo ass like "WTF did I get myself into?"[/QUOTE]
Kind of a cool way to grow up wadannit?
I was in Beirut at the time and had been at the complex the day before.
RIP Devil Dogs
Nightvisionary
10-23-20, 14:18
My machine gun instructor at the School of Infantry was there. He "suppressed" several Hezbollah fighters as an 0331 during his deployment. That incident is what prompted Commandant Al Grey to implement a change in USMC policy that required every Marine on sentry duty anywhere in the world would carry a loaded weapon.
My machine gun instructor at the School of Infantry was there. He "suppressed" several Hezbollah fighters as an 0331 during his deployment. That incident is what prompted Commandant Al Grey to implement a change in USMC policy that required every Marine on sentry duty anywhere in the world would carry a loaded weapon.
IIRC they had loaded weapons but weren't allowed to have a round chambered, which I always thought was odd (and fvcked up) because they had been in firefights and been shelled quite often both before and after the bombing. The guy on guard at the gate had to unsling his weapon and chamber a round, but by then the truck had zipped right on past. Having said that, I recall reading somewhere that an FBI forensics report estimated that due to the size of the explosion (~20,000lbs worth of blast) the building would have gone down even if it had detonated outside. Maybe less would have died, but who knows.
Kind of a cool way to grow up wadannit?
A week before I left for the Army the Soviets had shot down that KAL flight, then while I was at Benning there was Beirut and Grenada. Certainly pales in comparison to 9-11 and the bloody years afterward but for that era it was kind of touch-and-go.
I will also say, as with many things learned the hard way, that those 241 guy's lives may not have been altogether in vain. Ever since then, especially during the GWOT, the bad guys have been looking for that one "big score" like the Beirut barracks bombing. Our force protection measures were seared into our brains at a great cost in lives but our enemies haven't been able to pull it off again. Simple things like concrete barriers making a zig-zag necessary to approach a gate, things like that. I'm also sure something obvious like a round in the chamber came into accepted protocol.
I was just a few days shy of turning 15, my dad had retired from the Marine Corps, out of Camp Lejeune. We still knew a lot of people in the Corps down there, and we still had friends and some family in Jacksonville so we'd go down four or five times a year. We went down just a few days after, the whole town and base had a heartbreaking pall, it was awful. The 8th Marines out at Hadnot Point, their area, it was just emotionally awful.
dwhitehorne
10-23-20, 20:42
that incident is what prompted Commandant Al Grey to implement a change in USMC policy that required every Marine on sentry duty anywhere in the world would carry a loaded weapon.
The unfortunate thing about that order is General Grey made that call in 1987 right before I went in. When I reported to 2/8 weapons company in March of 88 a few of the NCO's in the Battalion were in Beirut. They were in Grenada and left to go to Beirut. I remember all of the officers surrounding one of our Sergeant's during an Alphas inspection because non of them had ever seen a combat action ribbon on someone who wan't in Vietnam. David
My machine gun instructor at the School of Infantry was there. He "suppressed" several Hezbollah fighters as an 0331 during his deployment.
Bombing was in 1983, Hezbollah was formed in 1985.
Bombing was in 1983, Hezbollah was formed in 1985.
But wasn't Islamic Jihad basically the same thing as Hezbollah, or essentially their predecessors? I recall decades later when one of those involved in the bombing was killed somewhere and he was listed as a Hezbollah honcho.
To wit (from Wiki):
"A 2003 American court decision found IJO was the name used by Hezbollah for its attacks in Lebanon, parts of the Middle East and Europe. The US, Israel and Canada consider the names "Islamic Jihad Organization", "Organization of the Oppressed on Earth" and the "Revolutionary Justice Organization" to be synonymous with Hezbollah."
Nightvisionary
10-25-20, 15:21
Bombing was in 1983, Hezbollah was formed in 1985.
I see the 1985 date is found on Wikipedia but it is factually incorrect.
When I first joined the Guard 20 years ago, the unit's full-timer was a former Marine. He once told me how he was sent to Grenada shortly after graduating Boot camp and that he was in Beirut during the bombing, said he would have been among the dead but couldn't sleep so he went down and hung out at one of the guard shacks.
Islamic Jihad eventually evolved into Hezbollah. But it wasn't really Hezbollah as we know it today.
Lebanon and the different groups is what I lived, for over a decade.
teufelhund1918
10-26-20, 05:14
My cousin was deployed to Beirut while in the Marines. He and a few other Marines were sent back stateside to get a mobile air pad. He was on his way back to the root when the bastards bombed the barracks. He lost a lot of friends in the bombing. It 'f"ed him up for a long time afterwards.
When I first joined the Guard 20 years ago, the unit's full-timer was a former Marine. He once told me how he was sent to Grenada shortly after graduating Boot camp and that he was in Beirut during the bombing, said he would have been among the dead but couldn't sleep so he went down and hung out at one of the guard shacks.
He may have had his wires crossed. Beirut and Grenada occurred two days apart, Oct 23rd and 25th respectively. If he was in Beirut when the bombing took place I doubt he was pulled out and sent to Grenada two days later; Beirut was a shit-show requiring all hands on deck (at least those left anyway).
He may have had his wires crossed. Beirut and Grenada occurred two days apart, Oct 23rd and 25th respectively. If he was in Beirut when the bombing took place I doubt he was pulled out and sent to Grenada two days later; Beirut was a shit-show requiring all hands on deck (at least those left anyway).
Concur. The 22nd MEU (MAU then) was enroute to Beirut but then tasked to Grenada; the army took up their positions so they could reroute to Lebanon. Marines did not leave Beirut for Grenada, then go back.
Nightvisionary
10-26-20, 10:07
When I first joined the Guard 20 years ago, the unit's full-timer was a former Marine. He once told me how he was sent to Grenada shortly after graduating Boot camp and that he was in Beirut during the bombing, said he would have been among the dead but couldn't sleep so he went down and hung out at one of the guard shacks.
The bombing and invasion occurred two days apart. He could not have participated in both events.
Concur. The 22nd MEU (MAU then) was enroute to Beirut but then tasked to Grenada; the army took up their positions so they could reroute to Lebanon. Marines did not leave Beirut for Grenada, then go back.
Correct, he may have been on Grenada THEN went to Beirut afterwards. It was still a mess in Beirut for a good while.
Correct, he may have been on Grenada THEN went to Beirut afterwards. It was still a mess in Beirut for a good while.
One of my dad's friends was with the BLT S2 shop and in a different part of Beirut. According to him it was a mess into 84. The things he said (and still says) are quite damning to senior leadership, and generally unflattering to Reagan and the DOD's expectations in Beirut. Ironically my dad was in Beirut in the 60s, loved it..."Paris of the Middle East" and all.
One of my dad's friends was with the BLT S2 shop and in a different part of Beirut. According to him it was a mess into 84. The things he said (and still says) are quite damning to senior leadership, and generally unflattering to Reagan and the DOD's expectations in Beirut. Ironically my dad was in Beirut in the 60s, loved it..."Paris of the Middle East" and all.
I too have heard and read that.
The conditions the Marines were under in Beirut eventually became combat conditions, with firefights and shellings taking place. There were several guys KIA before and after the bombing. Hell, the only Army personnel killed in the blast (3 of them) were part of a counter-battery radar unit attached to the Marines because of all the incoming. The bombing was obviously the worst part of it, but IIRC anyone who served in one of those rotations got a Combat Action Ribbon.
As Reagan was leaving office he gave an interview with someone who asked him what his worst mistake as POTUS was. His answer? Beirut.
Correct, he may have been on Grenada THEN went to Beirut afterwards. It was still a mess in Beirut for a good while.
Quite possibly, or was at neither and was just trying to impress a young kid, I have no idea, I just remember him talking about not being able to sleep and going outside to a guard shack in Beirut, and that he shot a dude in the face practically point-blank range with an M79 while in Grenada, said he was so close that the round didn't arm and just crushed the dude's face, killing him.
Don't know, I was like 17 or 18 years old at the time.
From a document I read online, the following had occurred within a month after the bombing:
"General Joy also reduced access to the roads leading into the Marine perimeter with what amounted to a three-tiered system. The innermost tier was armed with direct fire weapons, such as Dragon, LAAW, and .50-caliber machine guns, manned and fully ready 24 hours a day. Each Marine position was issued special rules of engagement based on specific triggering situations that were most likely to occur."
Too late unfortunately. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Interesting read: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AMH/XX/MidEast/Lebanon-1982-1984/USMC-Lebanon82/USMC-Lebanon82-9.html Apparently it has nine chapters to it, pretty detailed information.
Lebanon in the 1980's had more war lords and militias, Islamic, Druze, Christians, and the baddest of them all gay clowns.
Nightvisionary
10-27-20, 09:09
I too have heard and read that.
The conditions the Marines were under in Beirut eventually became combat conditions, with firefights and shellings taking place. There were several guys KIA before and after the bombing. Hell, the only Army personnel killed in the blast (3 of them) were part of a counter-battery radar unit attached to the Marines because of all the incoming. The bombing was obviously the worst part of it, but IIRC anyone who served in one of those rotations got a Combat Action Ribbon.
As Reagan was leaving office he gave an interview with someone who asked him what his worst mistake as POTUS was. His answer? Beirut.
Let's not forgot the 16 inch guns of the USS New Jersey were used several times while the Marines were in Beirut. US Navy A6 Intruders also bombed targets within the country on many occassions.
Nightvisionary
10-27-20, 09:09
Double post
Let's not forgot the 16 inch guns of the USS New Jersey were used several times while the Marines were in Beirut. US Navy A6 Intruders also bombed targets within the country on many occassions.
That's right...one was shot down, December '83...
That's right...one was shot down, December '83...
Isn't that the one Jesse Jackson negotiated for the pilot's release (because he was black)?
Yep, looked it up. On a raid into the Bekaa Valley their A-7 was shot down. Pilot died but Goodman, the navigator, was released by the Syrians ostensibly because of Jackson's requests.
Isn't that the one Jesse Jackson negotiated for the pilot's release (because he was black)?
Yep, looked it up. On a raid into the Bekaa Valley their A-7 was shot down. Pilot died but Goodman, the navigator, was released by the Syrians ostensibly because of Jackson's requests.
I had to look it up, too. Apparently the pilot's chute released too close to the ground and he had what became fatal injuries, a point the booger-eaters were quick to point out so everyone knew they did not kill him.
Isn't that the one Jesse Jackson negotiated for the pilot's release (because he was black)?
Yep, looked it up. On a raid into the Bekaa Valley their A-7 was shot down. Pilot died but Goodman, the navigator, was released by the Syrians ostensibly because of Jackson's requests.
I had to look it up, too. Apparently the pilot's chute released too close to the ground and he had what became fatal injuries, a point the booger-eaters were quick to point out so everyone knew they did not kill him.
Averageman
10-27-20, 13:30
Isn't that the one Jesse Jackson negotiated for the pilot's release (because he was black)?
Yep, looked it up. On a raid into the Bekaa Valley their A-7 was shot down. Pilot died but Goodman, the navigator, was released by the Syrians ostensibly because of Jackson's requests.
He was running for POTUS at about that time also.
We had dinner.
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