View Full Version : How a 3rd Nuke destined for Japan killed American Scientists here in the US.
Averageman
10-29-20, 10:35
http://extragoodshit.phlap.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Demon-Core-How-The-Third-Nuclear-Bomb-Destined-For-Japan-Killed-a-Bunch-of-American-Scientists.html
President Harry S. Truman knew that one bomb would not be enough to force Japan to surrender, so he ordered two. What many don’t know is that there was a third bomb in reserve, just in case.
This third bomb had not been assembled yet, but its plutonium core—the heart of the bomb—was ready, and kept at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. When it became clear a third bomb would not be necessary, nuclear scientists at Los Alamos were delirious with excitement. Here there was in their hands, the rarest of the rare material—a 6.2 kg core of pure plutonium. They probed and prod the shinny metallic sphere and subjected it to countless experiments, until two sloppy scientists nearly blew up the laboratory and ruined it for every one. Both of them were dead within days, and the core acquired the nickname “demon core”.
We should have tested it on Moscow just saying
Diamondback
10-29-20, 11:55
We should have tested it on Moscow just saying
If we could get it there with sufficient surprise to keep Stalin from spider-holing... the Moscow subway system was actually designed as a bunker system first and mass transit second.
Dr. Bullseye
10-29-20, 12:06
The Americans invented nothing. All atomic bombs came from Germany. Germany tested two uranium bombs in 1944. They sent bomb material to Japan which they tested in North Korea. The US captured a uranium bomb at one site and two plutonium bombs at another. If this bomb in question was not German, it was a copy of a German bomb and you see what happened as these scientists had no idea of what they were doing. There are tons of documentation on the German bomb in a book by Dr. Rainer Karlsch and more in books but Friedrich Georg and Thomas Mahner, Edgar Meyer and an Italian government witness to an atomic test, Luigi Romersa. It is in German language.
The Americans invented nothing. All atomic bombs came from Germany. Germany tested two uranium bombs in 1944. They sent bomb material to Japan which they tested in North Korea. The US captured a uranium bomb at one site and two plutonium bombs at another. If this bomb in question was not German, it was a copy of a German bomb and you see what happened as these scientists had no idea of what they were doing. There are tons of documentation on the German bomb in a book by Dr. Rainer Karlsch and more in books but Friedrich Georg and Thomas Mahner, Edgar Meyer and an Italian government witness to an atomic test, Luigi Romersa. It is in German language.
Can you please post a link?
Sent from 80ms in the future
http://extragoodshit.phlap.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Demon-Core-How-The-Third-Nuclear-Bomb-Destined-For-Japan-Killed-a-Bunch-of-American-Scientists.html
President Harry S. Truman knew that one bomb would not be enough to force Japan to surrender, so he ordered two. What many don’t know is that there was a third bomb in reserve, just in case.
This third bomb had not been assembled yet, but its plutonium core—the heart of the bomb—was ready, and kept at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. When it became clear a third bomb would not be necessary, nuclear scientists at Los Alamos were delirious with excitement. Here there was in their hands, the rarest of the rare material—a 6.2 kg core of pure plutonium. They probed and prod the shinny metallic sphere and subjected it to countless experiments, until two sloppy scientists nearly blew up the laboratory and ruined it for every one. Both of them were dead within days, and the core acquired the nickname “demon core”.
Harry Dahglian! IIRC, this wasn’t the first time he had grabbed at a core to keep it from going super critical.
And then Slotkin was killed by the same core a year later.
Lots of safety changes after these two incidents, and we also gained a lot of knowledge about radiation exposure and poisoning, and lethality radius.
Sent from 80ms in the future
The Americans invented nothing. All atomic bombs came from Germany. Germany tested two uranium bombs in 1944. They sent bomb material to Japan which they tested in North Korea. The US captured a uranium bomb at one site and two plutonium bombs at another. If this bomb in question was not German, it was a copy of a German bomb and you see what happened as these scientists had no idea of what they were doing. There are tons of documentation on the German bomb in a book by Dr. Rainer Karlsch and more in books but Friedrich Georg and Thomas Mahner, Edgar Meyer and an Italian government witness to an atomic test, Luigi Romersa. It is in German language.
US physicists were working on nuclear fission in the late 30s. While I definitely see a "nuclear race" and parallel development based on multiple sources, it's a bit disingenuous to pin all success to the Germans.
Diamondback
10-29-20, 12:28
US physicists were working on nuclear fission in the late 30s. While I definitely see a "nuclear race" and parallel development based on multiple sources, it's a bit disingenuous to pin all success to the Germans.
And many of our top nuke guys were Germans and Italians fleeing Hitler and Mussolini, IIRC. Japan was scary close and had some of the world's best cyclotrons, and despite Mac lobbying for them to be relocated for Allied scientists to use the order came down to destroy them all.
Nightmare, imagine nuclear kamikazes... IIRC they even had an "Atomic Blossom" designed based on the Yokosuka MXY7 just waiting for a warhead to plug in.
This guy has good videos on many nuclear and radiological disasters.
Here is the one on the "demon core"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE8FnsnWz48&ab_channel=PlainlyDifficult
Averageman
10-29-20, 13:38
We should have tested it on Moscow just saying
I said that to my Dad one time around 1978, I might as well have pulled the pin and rolled a grenade in to the Living room. It got that heated that quick.
HardToHandle
10-29-20, 20:52
SL-1 research reactor.
That after action makes the Demon Core tale look like a bedtime story.
MountainRaven
10-29-20, 21:37
The Americans invented nothing. All atomic bombs came from Germany. Germany tested two uranium bombs in 1944. They sent bomb material to Japan which they tested in North Korea. The US captured a uranium bomb at one site and two plutonium bombs at another. If this bomb in question was not German, it was a copy of a German bomb and you see what happened as these scientists had no idea of what they were doing. There are tons of documentation on the German bomb in a book by Dr. Rainer Karlsch and more in books but Friedrich Georg and Thomas Mahner, Edgar Meyer and an Italian government witness to an atomic test, Luigi Romersa. It is in German language.
Did they test these bombs in Antarctica or on the Moon?
Dr. Bullseye
10-29-20, 22:05
Did they test these bombs in Antarctica or on the Moon?
Why don't you google the names I provided, read their work and you can tell us?
This is not the forum for this subject. I gave you the author's names, some have done multiple books. There are many more than these. The only obscure reference is Luigi Romersa who was Mussolini's representative in 1944 researching Hitler's super weapons claims. He was present on Ruegen Island, just north of Peenemuende, in Oct. 1944 for a test of an atomic bomb. He gives his account in: Defensa, Number 76-77,August-Septmber, 1984, Gestern Nachricht, Heute Geschicte (Yesterday's News, Today's History) in an article titled: Die Geheimwaffen von Hitler, etws meher als (nur) Phantasie, (The German Secret Weapons of Hitler, something more than only fantasy).
Giving the Germans 100% of the credit is 100% correct as they did 100% of the work, even building the bombs themselves we dropped on Japan. But the Germans even refined the U235 we used in future projects as a shit load of it was captured in a German submarine and taken to New Hampshire after the Germans surrendered. There were many 56 kilo containers of uranium oxide U235 the compound by which they chose to transport fissionable uranium. We captured it and it was taken to Oak Ridge, TN. This submarine was U-234, originally bound for Japan. This is another subject worth googling.
MountainRaven
10-29-20, 23:35
Why don't you google the names I provided, read their work and you can tell us?
I Googled Rainer Karlsch.
A- There's no suggestion by the author that the weapons used were nuclear weapons but were actually radiological (meaning dirty bombs - something anyone with radiological material and some explosives can make).
B- There's no evidence to support the testing of radiological weapons on Rügen.
C- The author himself has admitted that he couldn't prove the claims he makes in his book (and one physicist criticized his book for displaying, "a catastrophic lack of understanding of physics". Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4348497.stm).
This is on top of the facts that Germany stopped development on nuclear weapons by the end of 1943 and Japanese didn't start until Spring 1945 - and got about as far as you'd expect it to in a country under siege, starved for resources, and totally reliant on imports just to maintain production of basic war matériel like rifles.
Friedrich Georg gets nothing but Ernst Jünger's brother, who wrote poetry; a Prussian prince who was born in 1976; a 19th Century Russian astronomer, and; an Austrian actor born in 1966.
Edgar Meyer is an American bassist born in 1960, with his own website: edgarmeyer.com.
Luigi Romersa beings us to this (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/30/books.italy), which brings us back to Karlsch and his... rather shaky book.
TL;DR: Your post has a nugget of (possible) truth at it's core, but it is - the further you get from, "the Nazis may have tested dirty bombs," - based more on fantasy than reality.
http://extragoodshit.phlap.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Demon-Core-How-The-Third-Nuclear-Bomb-Destined-For-Japan-Killed-a-Bunch-of-American-Scientists.html
President Harry S. Truman knew that one bomb would not be enough to force Japan to surrender, so he ordered two. What many don’t know is that there was a third bomb in reserve, just in case.
This third bomb had not been assembled yet, but its plutonium core—the heart of the bomb—was ready, and kept at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. When it became clear a third bomb would not be necessary, nuclear scientists at Los Alamos were delirious with excitement. Here there was in their hands, the rarest of the rare material—a 6.2 kg core of pure plutonium. They probed and prod the shinny metallic sphere and subjected it to countless experiments, until two sloppy scientists nearly blew up the laboratory and ruined it for every one. Both of them were dead within days, and the core acquired the nickname “demon core”.
It is astonishing how much we didn't understand about the weapons we were testing, especially after the war. So many observers and equipment operators working way too close to the device got seriously shortened life expediencies. We almost didn't understand radioactive fallout until it happened.
IIRC a bunch of guys in the Chicago labs drew short straws because their nuclear pile began to run away and somebody had to pull things by hand.
We should have tested it on Moscow just saying
Actually we should have used it on Klaus Fuchs who gave EVERYTHING to Stalin.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-30-20, 00:06
No the Germans didn't build them. It really is simple when you think about it. You just don't make a bomb, or two. You need a mind numbing amount of infrastructure to make the first one, the next 1000 are easy. That is what we did. You have it backwards, Oak Ridge made bomb material, not the other way around.
How and where did Germany get its nuclear material?
El Pistolero
10-30-20, 00:08
I have never believed in the Germans to have a working atomic bomb program during the war. If you look at Oak Ridge and Los Alamos labs and all the testing and resources put into the Manhattan Project it’s easy to see how a country being bombed day and night by the allies could not have pulled it off.
The Americans invented nothing. All atomic bombs came from Germany. Germany tested two uranium bombs in 1944. They sent bomb material to Japan which they tested in North Korea. The US captured a uranium bomb at one site and two plutonium bombs at another. If this bomb in question was not German, it was a copy of a German bomb and you see what happened as these scientists had no idea of what they were doing. There are tons of documentation on the German bomb in a book by Dr. Rainer Karlsch and more in books but Friedrich Georg and Thomas Mahner, Edgar Meyer and an Italian government witness to an atomic test, Luigi Romersa. It is in German language.
LOL. Some of the scientists came from Germany, but the material came from and were refined at Oak Ridge, KY.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dp45at.html
I have never believed in the Germans to have a working atomic bomb program during the war. If you look at Oak Ridge and Los Alamos labs and all the testing and resources put into the Manhattan Project it’s easy to see how a country being bombed day and night by the allies could not have pulled it off.
More importantly, they lacked a supply of heavy water necessary for the refinement process. Also their key scientists were being watched and would have been assassinated if it was believed they were engaging in serious development of atomic weapons, one of the reasons Otto Hahn and other refused to engage in weapons research for Germany.
More importantly, they lacked a supply of heavy water necessary for the refinement process. Also their key scientists were being watched and would have been assassinated if it was believed they were engaging in serious development of atomic weapons, one of the reasons Otto Hahn and other refused to engage in weapons research for Germany.There are things still being found such as that underground factory near Vienna.
I don't believe the final story has been asked and answered yet.
Also the UK MoD and DOD still have classified information still secret until 2045.
Why?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
BrigandTwoFour
10-30-20, 07:50
This kind of thing is actually in my wheelhouse (former USAF ICBM Operations officer). A lot of people think history is somehow clouded in mystery, but it's not. Two good books on the topic are Rhodes's The Making of the Atomic Bomb and The Nuclear Express by Thomas Reed.
Rhodes's book is exhaustingly detailed about the program. Most people don't realize that nuclear fission of uranium was not some mystery, scientists all over the world worked together and compared notes via scientific journals all the way up through the '30s. Once they realized that an independently sustained fission event could lead to a weapon of immense power, the race was on.
Germany, led by Werner Heisenberg, pursued a heavy water path that may have been successful had they not been disrupted (twice) by a combination of British and Norwegian commandos, see https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/06/winter-fortress-neal-bascomb-heroes-of-telemark-nazi-atomic-bomb-heavy-water/ or watch The Heavy Water War (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K3Ry2K4yNE) for a dramatization.
The British had the Tube Alloys program, which eventually started working alongside the American Manhattan Project.
The Japanese were also interested but made a political gamble to not pursue it. They, wrongly as it turned out, believed that the Americans would not have the industrial infrastructure to pursue such a program while also fighting a war on two fronts.
The Soviets were also pursuing it, but relied heavily on espionage to get there.
As far as the two bombs deployed, it was a hedge by using two competing designs of a "gun-type" assembly and an "implosion-type." The first used Uranium-235 refined through gas diffusion, a process perfected by the US during the Manhattan Project (at great expense). The gun-type was a much more inefficient design, but the engineering was so simple that we never actually tested it before dropping it on Hiroshima.
The second type, implosion, used Plutonium-239 produced via reactors at Oak Ridge, Tennessee (the experimental "X" reactor used to test the production theory) and the full-scale reactors at Hanford, Washington. The engineering was so complicated that many of the engineers thought it was impossible to do correctly, right up until the successful Trinity test.
This kind of thing is actually in my wheelhouse (former USAF ICBM Operations officer). A lot of people think history is somehow clouded in mystery, but it's not. Two good books on the topic are Rhodes's The Making of the Atomic Bomb and The Nuclear Express by Thomas Reed.
Rhodes's book is exhaustingly detailed about the program. Most people don't realize that nuclear fission of uranium was not some mystery, scientists all over the world worked together and compared notes via scientific journals all the way up through the '30s. Once they realized that an independently sustained fission event could lead to a weapon of immense power, the race was on.
Germany, led by Werner Heisenberg, pursued a heavy water path that may have been successful had they not been disrupted (twice) by a combination of British and Norwegian commandos, see https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/06/winter-fortress-neal-bascomb-heroes-of-telemark-nazi-atomic-bomb-heavy-water/ or watch The Heavy Water War (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K3Ry2K4yNE) for a dramatization.
The British had the Tube Alloys program, which eventually started working alongside the American Manhattan Project.
The Japanese were also interested but made a political gamble to not pursue it. They, wrongly as it turned out, believed that the Americans would not have the industrial infrastructure to pursue such a program while also fighting a war on two fronts.
The Soviets were also pursuing it, but relied heavily on espionage to get there.
As far as the two bombs deployed, it was a hedge by using two competing designs of a "gun-type" assembly and an "implosion-type." The first used Uranium-235 refined through gas diffusion, a process perfected by the US during the Manhattan Project (at great expense). The gun-type was a much more inefficient design, but the engineering was so simple that we never actually tested it before dropping it on Hiroshima.
The second type, implosion, used Plutonium-239 produced via reactors at Oak Ridge, Tennessee (the experimental "X" reactor used to test the production theory) and the full-scale reactors at Hanford, Washington. The engineering was so complicated that many of the engineers thought it was impossible to do correctly, right up until the successful Trinity test.
Have you read Broken Arrow? I have not yet, it's on my list....
BrigandTwoFour
10-30-20, 09:28
That's the one about the 1961 B-52 crash, right? I've not read it, but am familiar with the incident.
Another one to check out is Command and Control by Eric Schlossler. I take issues with some of his points, but it covers a lot of ground. Much of th ebook is spent on the Damascus incident with a Titan II ICBM around Little Rock AFB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion). When I was a lieutenant, I worked for an O-6 who was a young enlisted security forces member on the ground there.
My father worked on nukes while he was in the Air Force. They have reunions every year and he was even the president of their group for a while. The stories these guys tell run from terrifying to hilarious. The number of almost disasters I have heard about at these events.....
That's the one about the 1961 B-52 crash, right? I've not read it, but am familiar with the incident.
Another one to check out is Command and Control by Eric Schlossler. I take issues with some of his points, but it covers a lot of ground. Much of th ebook is spent on the Damascus incident with a Titan II ICBM around Little Rock AFB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion). When I was a lieutenant, I worked for an O-6 who was a young enlisted security forces member on the ground there.
Partly, yes. The B-52 incident happened in my mom's hometown. Had that last safety not did it's thing, I would not be here (nor a whole lotta other people). Fascinating stuff. There was a PBS show about the Little Rock incident based on the book, quite good.
My father worked on nukes while he was in the Air Force. They have reunions every year and he was even the president of their group for a while. The stories these guys tell run from terrifying to hilarious. The number of almost disasters I have heard about at these events.....
My father was in the Soviet Air Force working on TU95s in Uzyn. Those TU95 would fly with live nukes all the time. Wonder how many of them has accidents we will never know about?
My father was in the Soviet Air Force working on TU95s in Uzyn. Those TU95 would fly with live nukes all the time. Wonder how many of them has accidents we will never know about?
Seriously? Is your father still around? I bet my dad would love to talk to him.
My father was in the Soviet Air Force working on TU95s in Uzyn. Those TU95 would fly with live nukes all the time. Wonder how many of them has accidents we will never know about?
The US did not like to talk about AC crashes with nukes, you just know the USSR would clamp down on it.
My father was in the Soviet Air Force working on TU95s in Uzyn. Those TU95 would fly with live nukes all the time. Wonder how many of them has accidents we will never know about?
Action word: JERICHO
Diamondback
10-30-20, 13:48
Seriously? Is your father still around? I bet my dad would love to talk to him.
I bet it'd be fun and educational if we could get him and my old prof the F-106 pilot together... I've long thought that if they hadn't all been cut up and coulda been stripped of "national security secrets" it would have been appropriate for Wright-Pat and Monino to put together a joint display at each museum with an old A- or B-model BUFF and a first-gen Bear parked nose-to-nose and a mockup alert-shack behind each plane showing the Cold War aircrew experience for both sides.
My father was in the Soviet Air Force working on TU95s in Uzyn. Those TU95 would fly with live nukes all the time. Wonder how many of them has accidents we will never know about?
The Bear Foxtrot reference brings back some memories for me.
Diamondback
10-30-20, 15:27
My father worked on nukes while he was in the Air Force. They have reunions every year and he was even the president of their group for a while. The stories these guys tell run from terrifying to hilarious. The number of almost disasters I have heard about at these events.....
These guys? https://usafnukes.com
Seriously? Is your father still around? I bet my dad would love to talk to him.
Yeah, they are flying back from Arizona right now. Went to Sedona to get the **** out of NJ for a week.
The US did not like to talk about AC crashes with nukes, you just know the USSR would clamp down on it.
Dude, we didn't know about Chernobyl until my aunt called us from New Jersey, and we were in Kiev.
Action word: JERICHO
Such a good show. Sucks it only had 1.5 seasons.
I bet it'd be fun and educational if we could get him and my old prof the F-106 pilot together... I've long thought that if they hadn't all been cut up and coulda been stripped of "national security secrets" it would have been appropriate for Wright-Pat and Monino to put together a joint display at each museum with an old A- or B-model BUFF and a first-gen Bear parked nose-to-nose and a mockup alert-shack behind each plane showing the Cold War aircrew experience for both sides.
I am sure if they [the museum] got enough money, the Russians would sell them anything, including a TU95. They will sell you a MiG29 for sure.
Diamondback
10-30-20, 16:37
I am sure if they [the museum] got enough money, the Russians would sell them anything, including a TU95. They will sell you a MiG29 for sure.
True, my thinking was more of a joint "Cold War Memorial" funded by both governments, designed by both museums and built on both sites remembering the men who kept an uneasy peace.
Why don't you google the names I provided, read their work and you can tell us?
But the Germans even refined the U235 we used in future projects as a shit load of it was captured in a German submarine and taken to New Hampshire after the Germans surrendered. There were many 56 kilo containers of uranium oxide U235 the compound by which they chose to transport fissionable uranium. We captured it and it was taken to Oak Ridge, TN. This submarine was U-234, originally bound for Japan. This is another subject worth googling.
Yeah, no. While U234 did have Uranium oxide onboard, it was about 1200 lbs at an unknown concentration, and was also used (and evidently still is) as a catalyst for various fuel products:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-234
Estimates are that it was about 20% of what you'd need for a bomb.
Also ignores the 1200 TONS of abnormally high grade Uranium ore that we had in the States in 1940 courtesy of the Belgian Congo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkolobwe
Cite your sources, be willing to link out to articles, books or public research. You've got as much credibility as Alex Jones selling weight loss drugs at this point...
https://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/the-third-reich-how-close-was-hitler-to-the-a-bomb-a-346293.html
Dude, we didn't know about Chernobyl until my aunt called us from New Jersey, and we were in Kiev.
Damn, that's seriously disturbing.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Yeah, they are flying back from Arizona right now. Went to Sedona to get the **** out of NJ for a week.
Dude, we didn't know about Chernobyl until my aunt called us from New Jersey, and we were in Kiev.
Such a good show. Sucks it only had 1.5 seasons.
I am sure if they [the museum] got enough money, the Russians would sell them anything, including a TU95. They will sell you a MiG29 for sure.
Нет, мой друг.
Ето:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOrMnF2yk0Y
Нет, мой друг.
Ето:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOrMnF2yk0Y
I had almost forgotten about “By Dawns Early Light”. From what I remember I think I liked it.
There are things still being found such as that underground factory near Vienna.
I don't believe the final story has been asked and answered yet.
Also the UK MoD and DOD still have classified information still secret until 2045.
Why?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sure. We didn't get the actual story of Hitler's remains until the wall came down, but the real story compared to the 1945 Russian version wasn't dramatically different.
And just because the Brits classify something "ultra double special secret" isn't evidence of life changing reveal to come anymore than the complete release of of the Warren commission didn't really offer all the government secrets Oliver Stone was hoping for.
There are some small things that will probably remain always unknown, but I think the biggest evidence that Germany never had a completed device or anything even close to it is the fact that it didn't get dropped on us in Bastogne or some other location. Something like an atomic bomb, even in a 1 kiloton yield, was exactly the kind of wonder weapon Hitler was hoping for and dreaming about. If it existed at all in any form it would have absolutely been used and the argument is only would he have dropped it on us or the Russians.
These guys? https://usafnukes.com
Yep that is them. They roped him into running for some office within the group here again this year. I always tease him. The man could repair and rebuild Nukes, yet his is so computer illiterate it isn't even funny.
There are some small things that will probably remain always unknown, but I think the biggest evidence that Germany never had a completed device or anything even close to it is the fact that it didn't get dropped on us in Bastogne or some other location. Something like an atomic bomb, even in a 1 kiloton yield, was exactly the kind of wonder weapon Hitler was hoping for and dreaming about. If it existed at all in any form it would have absolutely been used and the argument is only would he have dropped it on us or the Russians.
If Hitler could have stuffed an atom bomb into a V2 rocket, it probably would have been fired at London.
If Hitler could have stuffed an atom bomb into a V2 rocket, it probably would have been fired at London.
If he could have loaded one onto a boxcar he would have been willing to detonate it in the center of Berlin as the Russians closed in on him. After all there were no innocent Germans anymore, only Germans that failed to live up to their divine calling.
Brasilnuts
10-31-20, 05:57
LOL. Some of the scientists came from Germany, but the material came from and were refined at Oak Ridge, KY.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dp45at.html
It’s Oak Ridge, Tennessee..... NOT Kentucky.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-31-20, 09:50
If Hitler could have stuffed an atom bomb into a V2 rocket, it probably would have been fired at London.
In this I agree with the dems- Russians, Russians, Russians.... Hitler would have used something that killing on the Russians. Straight up to Moscow. Then threatened London.
It’s Oak Ridge, Tennessee..... NOT Kentucky.
That's what they want you to think....
Actually America Atom Bombing Japan was a huge shock. Nobody really thought we would do it.
Coca Cola sometimes War
Took me a while to find, but here’s a good article on what became of some of the uranium in Germany’s failed nuclear program
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/06/physicists-hunt-uranium-cubes-to-shed-light-on-germanys-failed-nuclear-reactor/
Sent from 80ms in the future
Brasilnuts
10-31-20, 16:50
That's what they want you to think....
Well, they’ve done a bang up job of it for the 46 years I’ve lived here. lol
In this I agree with the dems- Russians, Russians, Russians.... Hitler would have used something that killing on the Russians. Straight up to Moscow. Then threatened London.
Hmmm. Shortly after proving the weapon worked, Germany was producing over 500 V2s each month despite an aggressive allied air effort to disrupt them. How many were used to hit places other than England?
Diamondback
10-31-20, 19:23
Yep that is them. They roped him into running for some office within the group here again this year. I always tease him. The man could repair and rebuild Nukes, yet his is so computer illiterate it isn't even funny.
You and he might find this funny... 20 years ago in college, I haunted the website occasionally, though casually since my only connection is tangential via the F-106 and B-52 communities.
Dr. Bullseye
10-31-20, 23:20
I Googled Rainer Karlsch.
A- There's no suggestion by the author that the weapons used were nuclear weapons but were actually radiological (meaning dirty bombs - something anyone with radiological material and some explosives can make).
B- There's no evidence to support the testing of radiological weapons on Rügen.
C- The author himself has admitted that he couldn't prove the claims he makes in his book (and one physicist criticized his book for displaying, "a catastrophic lack of understanding of physics". Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4348497.stm).
This is on top of the facts that Germany stopped development on nuclear weapons by the end of 1943 and Japanese didn't start until Spring 1945 - and got about as far as you'd expect it to in a country under siege, starved for resources, and totally reliant on imports just to maintain production of basic war matériel like rifles.
Friedrich Georg gets nothing but Ernst Jünger's brother, who wrote poetry; a Prussian prince who was born in 1976; a 19th Century Russian astronomer, and; an Austrian actor born in 1966.
Edgar Meyer is an American bassist born in 1960, with his own website: edgarmeyer.com.
Luigi Romersa beings us to this (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/30/books.italy), which brings us back to Karlsch and his... rather shaky book.
TL;DR: Your post has a nugget of (possible) truth at it's core, but it is - the further you get from, "the Nazis may have tested dirty bombs," - based more on fantasy than reality.
This is exactly what I meant about this forum not being the forum for this subject.
Mountain Raven, you might try this little summary on Romersa:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/i-saw-nazis-test-a-bomb-says-author-rewriting-history-20051001-gdm628.html
Try this English summary for Dr. Rainer Karlsch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitlers_Bombe
I found some of Friedrich Georg's books translated into English for you:
https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Miracle-Weapons-Luftwaffe-Kriegsmarine/dp/1874622914
Here is Edgar Mayer/ Thomas Mehner's latest book which I have not read.
https://www.amazon.com/Zeitbombe-Jonastal-Nuklearwaffe-Gefahren-Energieproblem/dp/3864456789
Thomas Mehner was one of the first to explore the vast underground facilities at the Jonas Valley in Thuringa. The military exercise yard there was also the site of an atomic test in 1944.
This is a widely read book covering these topics:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atomziel-New-York-Grossraketen-Raumfahrtprojekte/dp/3930219913
All the authors start slowly so the first thing they present is the radiological bomb. The Germans actually tested a modified V-2 with an extended center section to hold the radioactive dust. It was never used however. Friedrich Georg shows pictures of it in one of his books. The target for this device would have been London. As the Dr. Rainer Karlsch summary mentions, the Germans developed hybrid fission-fusion bombs (which every modern military has now) as well as sub-critical mass atomic devices. The Manhattan Project never even considered these. The Germans had a design for an atomic cannon using an atomic device the size of a cannon round. We took the idea after the war and made the cannon.
There. You have been led to the water. If you choose to drink or not is not my concern. My original post was to set the record straight but now I am done.
It’s Oak Ridge, Tennessee..... NOT Kentucky.
Sorry, brain fart. It was even in the link.
Actually America Atom Bombing Japan was a huge shock. Nobody really thought we would do it.
Coca Cola sometimes War
And that is why Truman is one of the four greatest presidents of the 20th century. With that decision he saved thousands of American and Japanese lives. The Japanese were culturally prepared to fight us to their extinction.
When they realized they couldn't commit men, women and children to meet us on the beach for a conventional invasion and would simply keep dropping city destroying bombs from the air, then they finally considered throwing in the towel.
Of course Russia declaring war on Japan at a time when Japan was hoping Russia might broker a surrender deal with the US probably was as shocking to them as Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This is exactly what I meant about this forum not being the forum for this subject.
Mountain Raven, you might try this little summary on Romersa:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/i-saw-nazis-test-a-bomb-says-author-rewriting-history-20051001-gdm628.html
Try this English summary for Dr. Rainer Karlsch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitlers_Bombe
I found some of Friedrich Georg's books translated into English for you:
https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Miracle-Weapons-Luftwaffe-Kriegsmarine/dp/1874622914
Here is Edgar Mayer/ Thomas Mehner's latest book which I have not read.
https://www.amazon.com/Zeitbombe-Jonastal-Nuklearwaffe-Gefahren-Energieproblem/dp/3864456789
Thomas Mehner was one of the first to explore the vast underground facilities at the Jonas Valley in Thuringa. The military exercise yard there was also the site of an atomic test in 1944.
This is a widely read book covering these topics:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atomziel-New-York-Grossraketen-Raumfahrtprojekte/dp/3930219913
All the authors start slowly so the first thing they present is the radiological bomb. The Germans actually tested a modified V-2 with an extended center section to hold the radioactive dust. It was never used however. Friedrich Georg shows pictures of it in one of his books. The target for this device would have been London. As the Dr. Rainer Karlsch summary mentions, the Germans developed hybrid fission-fusion bombs (which every modern military has now) as well as sub-critical mass atomic devices. The Manhattan Project never even considered these. The Germans had a design for an atomic cannon using an atomic device the size of a cannon round. We took the idea after the war and made the cannon.
There. You have been led to the water. If you choose to drink or not is not my concern. My original post was to set the record straight but now I am done.
Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb) is a nonfiction book by the German historian Rainer Karlsch published in March 2005, which claims to have evidence concerning the development and testing of a possible "nuclear weapon" by Nazi Germany in 1945. The "weapon" in question is not alleged to be a standard nuclear weapon powered by nuclear fission, but something closer to either a radiological weapon (a so-called "dirty bomb") or a hybrid-nuclear fusion weapon. Its new evidence is concerned primarily with the parts of the German nuclear energy project under Kurt Diebner.
Claims, possible, might have been, etc. are all very specific words that amount to zero evidence.
Right now, lacking any genuine physical evidence...these claims have about as much validity as people who claim the holocaust never happened...and they have those people too and they also wrote books.
Bring me radioactive trace evidence from the test site, it should be pretty easy to find and confirm.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-20, 10:11
Hmmm. Shortly after proving the weapon worked, Germany was producing over 500 V2s each month despite an aggressive allied air effort to disrupt them. How many were used to hit places other than England?
Because the Russians didn’t give a flying F about their population. v2s where cool and all, but they weren’t going to have a MATERIAL effect on the war. They could however, make a psychological change in the west. I’d also have to look at where they could be launched from and how fast the Russians were adavancing. I don’t know where I read it, but the amount of explosives from the V weapons compared to the Allied bombing raids was almost laughable
Diamondback
11-01-20, 12:08
V2 was an imprecise terror-weapon, but there was a design for a winged and piloted version (WvB had penciled it out with an eye toward postwar airmail) but had it been brought to Hitler's attention and had they come up with a Little Boy I'm sure they woulda found some fanatic to kamikaze the Kremlin. OTOH, they had proposed human-piloted kamikaze V-1s and even the Hitlerjugend and SS came back with "lemmethinkNO!"... the entire world should be profoundly grateful that German engineering and Japanese suicidal fanaticism were never brought together to their full nightmare potential.
The Americans invented nothing. All atomic bombs came from Germany. Germany tested two uranium bombs in 1944. They sent bomb material to Japan which they tested in North Korea. The US captured a uranium bomb at one site and two plutonium bombs at another. If this bomb in question was not German, it was a copy of a German bomb and you see what happened as these scientists had no idea of what they were doing. There are tons of documentation on the German bomb in a book by Dr. Rainer Karlsch and more in books but Friedrich Georg and Thomas Mahner, Edgar Meyer and an Italian government witness to an atomic test, Luigi Romersa. It is in German language.
This is false. Give credit to the Germans for rocketry that eventually led to the space race. But they didn't invent the bomb, we did and the Soviets had spies in our program, that's why they had the bomb not long after we had it.
MountainRaven
11-01-20, 13:07
You have been led to the water. If you choose to drink or not is not my concern. My original post was to set the record straight but now I am done.
Your, "water," smells suspiciously of petroleum and has a dead goat in it. I'll pass, thanks.
Because the Russians didn’t give a flying F about their population. v2s where cool and all, but they weren’t going to have a MATERIAL effect on the war. They could however, make a psychological change in the west. I’d also have to look at where they could be launched from and how fast the Russians were adavancing. I don’t know where I read it, but the amount of explosives from the V weapons compared to the Allied bombing raids was almost laughable
Contrary to the myth, Russia did not have countless waves of men to throw into the meatgrinder of the Eastern Front. They were certainly willing to use the lives of human beings where the Western Allies and even the Germans would prefer a technological solution, but they ate massive casualties at the beginning of the war. Massive casualties that have had a lasting impact on Russia's demographics - and the demographics of most of the other former Soviet Republics, but especially Russia and Ukraine - and likely played a not-insignificant role in the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union.
Also worth bearing in mind that the Nazis wanted a truce with the West to focus on fighting the Soviet Union. Or better yet, get the Western Allies to go to war against the Soviet Union as Nazi allies. And given the West's aversion to casualties...
Using a nuke against the West would be a high risk strategy: It might get the Western Allies to agree to a separate truce or it might make the Western Allies redouble their efforts to destroy the Reich from the air and the Soviets push harder and faster to gut the Reich on the ground both to preserve their forces and to keep the Western Allies in the fight. And could further result in the US pushing their (unknown to the Nazis) nuclear program to go faster and eventually dropping Little Boy or Fat Man on Berlin.
Using a nuke against the Soviets seems like it would be more likely a Nazi priority. Both to destroy as much Soviet men and matériel as possible and to threaten Paris and London. And given that emphasis on Soviet matériel, it's more likely the Nazis would use it as a sort of tactical weapon, targeting Soviet troop formations on the eve of a Soviet offensive, than as a terror weapon against Moscow, Stalingrad, or Leningrad. Combined with the threat to Paris or London, the Nazis might be able to negotiate a cease-fire with the Western Allies. Worst case scenario, the Western Allies would be unlikely to feel any particular sense of urgency so long as they (and especially their civilian population centers - and Soviet population centers) aren't being threatened with nuclear annihilation.
I do agree, however, with the poster who suggested that the most likely use for a Nazi nuclear weapon during WWII would be by Hitler against Berlin as the Soviets surround the city and he realizes his paper armies are not coming to save him. I could also see Hitler making wide use of radiological weapons against Ukraine - the breast basket of Europe and the ultimate goal of his push into the Soviet Union, his Lebensraum - and possibly also against Germany's agricultural lands; both as a scorched earth tactic to poison their use by the Soviet Union but also to punish and poison the German people for failing him.
Нет, мой друг.
Ето:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOrMnF2yk0Y
Alaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas Babylooooooooooooon!
Actually America Atom Bombing Japan was a huge shock. Nobody really thought we would do it.
Coca Cola sometimes War
Amerika ist wunderbar
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.