View Full Version : Stupid idea
thepatriot2705
10-30-20, 00:52
I got a really stupid idea. To keep myself preoccupied, I’m considering buying a lot for 10k and building a house from the ground up by hand, including digging an 8 foot basement by hand. Kind of a dumb idea but something to keep me from the bottle?
Diamondback
10-30-20, 01:14
Look for a book titled "Be Your Own General Contractor." No bottle urges but I've had similar thoughts myself every now and again, having dabbled as an architecture student in high school.
First thing: determine all your requirements and "Would Really Likes" up front before you even think about breaking ground, then get some graph paper and start doodling. Even if you decide to shortcut by building in phases, work up the whole design first--for example, a lot of the things I've penciled tend to start with building the garage and a "mother-in-law" apartment above that to live in while building up a "common space" core like kitchen, dining room, living room and then building extensions out and/or up from that. It's easier to design anticipating growth for all your wants than to have your design only have what you can do right now then later you have to figure out "okay, how do I add these things I really wanted?"
Not crazy, but where do you live? Do you have to follow codes where you are at? What kind of foundation were you thinking of? How big of a place? Building your own house will consume plenty of time without putting yourself through the Hell of hand digging a foundation. Why not just rent the equipment to dig it mechanically.
thepatriot2705
10-30-20, 01:18
Look for a book titled "Be Your Own General Contractor." No bottle urges but I've had similar thoughts myself every now and again, having dabbled as an architecture student in high school.
First thing: determine all your requirements and "Would Really Likes" up front before you even think about breaking ground, then get some graph paper and start doodling. Even if you decide to shortcut by building in phases, work up the whole design first--for example, a lot of the things I've penciled tend to start with building the garage and a "mother-in-law" apartment above that to live in while building up a "common space" core like kitchen, dining room, living room and then building extensions out and/or up from that. It's easier to design anticipating growth for all your wants than to have your design only have what you can do right now then later you have to figure out "okay, how do I add these things I really wanted?"
I’m in the process of restoring a historic house right now. I’ve run into some permitting bullshit. But the inspiration for this is to appreciate how they built houses in the old day. I’m talking an Italianate house with fieldstone foundation and true brick construction.
Would be pretty cool to look back and say I laid every single brick by hand. Cut every joist etc
thepatriot2705
10-30-20, 01:22
Not crazy, but where do you live? Do you have to follow codes where you are at? What kind of foundation were you thinking of? How big of a place? Building your own house will consume plenty of time without putting yourself through the Hell of hand digging a foundation. Why not just rent the equipment to dig it mechanically.
Would target for 2000 sq ft. Fieldstone foundation of city allowed it. Can’t see why not. Those buildings have lasted 100+ years. Why hand? I gotta stay busy or I’ll lose my damn mind.
I personally think that's an amazing idea, I served with a guy who designed and built his own house. I remember seeing pictures and was awed at the process. I think whether you go with digging by hand or getting equipment to assist. you should create a thread on here and post pictures as you make progress if you do go through with it. You may become an inspiration for someone else to follow suit.
Diamondback
10-30-20, 01:43
Speaking of, are there any good references out there for trying to design a structure from scratch for optimal Home D but without it looking like a fortress from outside? Personally I'm a big fan of chokepoints and "stairwell as fatal funnel," but being stuck with Old Boatanchor who can barely walk fifty feet at a time kinda puts a cramp on "concentrate everything important upstairs."
Speaking of, are there any good references out there for trying to design a structure from scratch for optimal Home D but without it looking like a fortress from outside?
William Whitley's House would still hold up against small arms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Whitley_House_State_Historic_Site
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-30-20, 08:42
I got a really stupid idea. To keep myself preoccupied, I’m considering buying a lot for 10k and building a house from the ground up by hand, including digging an 8 foot basement by hand. Kind of a dumb idea but something to keep me from the bottle?
Sounds like a project that would drive most people to drink...
If you take the time and film it right you could turn it into a probably pretty profitable YouTube channel, or maybe even a broadcast TV show like on the do it yourself channel.
Not crazy, but where do you live? Do you have to follow codes where you are at? What kind of foundation were you thinking of? How big of a place? Building your own house will consume plenty of time without putting yourself through the Hell of hand digging a foundation. Why not just rent the equipment to dig it mechanically.
I suppose if you live so far from civilization that no one knows you exist but where is there a place in the US which officially does not follow any building codes?
Would target for 2000 sq ft. Fieldstone foundation of city allowed it. Can’t see why not. Those buildings have lasted 100+ years. Why hand? I gotta stay busy or I’ll lose my damn mind.
The IRC (International Residential Code) which every state I ever worked in follows in some way shape or form is very prescriptive. Unlike the IBC (International Building Code) which governs commercial building design, the residential code tells you exactly how to do it. Each chapter will tell you how big, how often and where. If you want to build a simple framed dwelling, all you need to do it look up the condition and it will tell you the answer. For instance, you have a room which is 15' wide and you need a joist and the room above is a bedroom. Boom, use this joist this many inches on center.
There is nothing in Chapter 4 which allows fieldstone foundations. You can use wood, CMU or concrete, anything else will require calculations to prove it will resist moment and overturning so unless you want to do those calcs, [I sure as hell don't] just use CMU or pour in place. I know that there are centuries old houses which have fieldstone foundations that are still standing, but that doesn't mean they meet current code. We used to use lead paint and asbestos as well, remember?
If you get into a situation where you need to design a beam or header etc. take a look at FORTE. https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/software-learning/forte-software/ It is a free online software by Weyerhouser. They are a major manufacturer of engineered structural wood products but the software will calculate for standard nominal wood framing of various species as well. I use FORTE on all our residential projects. You can print out reports showing the suitability of a wood section to prove to the town it will work if they ask and to cover your ass with the insurance people if needed.
Also, depending on where you live you may have to design for seismic and or wind uplift. Simpson Strongtie has a lot of guides for this on their website, they are very good references.
Remember, a lot of the stuff you do may look right, and chances are it will stand up, but that doesn't mean it's compliant with the Code and there are A LOT of them. The IRC will cover most of what you need, but you will also need NFPA70 (National Electric Code), National Standard Plumbing Code and the International Energy Conservation Code. Those should cover it since IFC and Fuel Gas is covered in the IRC for the most part.
All towns I have ever filed projects in have also require a RESCheck report which is a free online software tool from the DOE to test the energy efficiency of the home and provide a report saying it passes Code.
Speaking of, are there any good references out there for trying to design a structure from scratch for optimal Home D but without it looking like a fortress from outside? Personally I'm a big fan of chokepoints and "stairwell as fatal funnel," but being stuck with Old Boatanchor who can barely walk fifty feet at a time kinda puts a cramp on "concentrate everything important upstairs."
I don't know if he wrote a book about it but Jeff Cooper laid out his house in order to be highly defendable. Shooting USA did an story on his house as well with some of the major points being discussed.
I’ve always dreamed of designing my own house. I just bought several sheets of 17x22 graph paper to start doodling ideas. I’ll be following your project if you get it off the ground.
thepatriot2705
10-30-20, 12:09
Sounds like a project that would drive most people to drink...
If you take the time and film it right you could turn it into a probably pretty profitable YouTube channel, or maybe even a broadcast TV show like on the do it yourself channel.
My current project makes me want to drink. I’ve been fighting the city for an electric permit for 6 months now
My current project makes me want to drink. I’ve been fighting the city for an electric permit for 6 months now
What's the problem?
thepatriot2705
10-30-20, 12:58
What's the problem?
Owner occupied duplex. I rent out the first floor. City says exemption to license requirement does not extend to rental properties.
Just remember a good classic home needs
-A laundry room
-a guest room
-a gun room-
-a sex dungeon
teufelhund1918
10-30-20, 13:22
I wish I wasn't so mobile during my working lifetime. I always wanted to get one of those portable saw mills and build my own log cabin somewhat off grid. Hindsight is always 20-20....
Owner occupied duplex. I rent out the first floor. City says exemption to license requirement does not extend to rental properties.
Typically only the owner can pull a permit without using a licensed contractor. For instance, in NJ, the owner of a home can act as a the contractor and pull a permit to install new outlets. If you aren't the owner of the property, I can see how the AHJ would interpret that as not falling within those guidelines.
thepatriot2705
10-30-20, 13:43
Typically only the owner can pull a permit without using a licensed contractor. For instance, in NJ, the owner of a home can act as a the contractor and pull a permit to install new outlets. If you aren't the owner of the property, I can see how the AHJ would interpret that as not falling within those guidelines.
I own the building. I rent out one unit and will live in the one I’m rehabbing. BTW, old school lime sand hair plaster is a pain
Diamondback
10-30-20, 14:12
I’ve always dreamed of designing my own house. I just bought several sheets of 17x22 graph paper to start doodling ideas. I’ll be following your project if you get it off the ground.
If you're serious enough to drop some coin, check out Punch Software's Home Design Suite, and Sketchup is pretty good for quick-and-dirty visualization too.
If you're serious enough to drop some coin, check out Punch Software's Home Design Suite, and Sketchup is pretty good for quick-and-dirty visualization too.
I use SketchUp all the time, it's actually a very powerful tool if you know how to use it. What sucks is that it no longer integrates with our Autodesk suit and I can't stand Revit.
ChiefArchitect is a program I used when I first started working and we did mostly residential but we only used it to layout the house, the drawings were still done in AutoCAD.
I own the building. I rent out one unit and will live in the one I’m rehabbing. BTW, old school lime sand hair plaster is a pain
I read that wrong. You said you rent out the ground floor, not rent the ground floor. My apologies.
Based on everything I have seen, in all the places I've had projects, you should be able to pull that permit so that's some bullshit.
I wish I wasn't so mobile during my working lifetime. I always wanted to get one of those portable saw mills and build my own log cabin somewhat off grid. Hindsight is always 20-20....
The first time I ever heard I have a portable sawmill that used a vehicle for power, the person described it in a way that sounded like the blade bolted directly onto the Hub instead of using a pulley and a belt over to the blade assembly. I had a mental image even more dangerous than the real thing LOL
OP, as a GC myself, please be careful. Refer to your local building / community development department.
Trust the pros about septic soil work, septic systems, compaction testing for foundation soils, and the foundation itself. Sawmills are pretty legit, but make sure that your lumber is dry prior to installation. Some local authorities require it to be stamped by a kiln.
Not to discourage you, but encourage you to do the research prior to the work. The International Regulatory Code ( IRC) is available online. Check it out. I’m using the 2018 IRC currently (GA)
ETA that you need a real scaled plan (1/4” to 1’ preferable). Do not skip this.
There are some outlaw counties even in the East that do not care what you do building wise, but most require a good bit of oversight in the building process. The more rural, the better.
Good luck Sir
Just remember a good classic home needs
-A laundry room
-a guest room
-a gun room-
-a sex dungeon
Not all of us have to lock someone up to have sex with them :)
thepatriot2705
10-31-20, 00:53
Based on everything I have seen, in all the places I've had projects, you should be able to pull that permit so that's some bullshit.
Story of my life. Nothing can be easy or straight forward
Typically only the owner can pull a permit without using a licensed contractor. For instance, in NJ, the owner of a home can act as a the contractor and pull a permit to install new outlets. If you aren't the owner of the property, I can see how the AHJ would interpret that as not falling within those guidelines.
Wouldn't his duplex be considered a commercial property? Probably why they won't let him pull the permit as the homeowner.
I suppose if you live so far from civilization that no one knows you exist but where is there a place in the US which officially does not follow any building codes?
My question to the OP probably should have been worded better. I was curious as to the level of code enforcement he has where he's at. ie: drainage plans, zoning, etc. There are still plenty of areas in the U.S. that require a building permit, but don't do plan reviews, or even on-site inspections. They just have wording that requires the contractor or owner contractor to follow IRC or IBC codes, but little enforcement.
About 90% of Alaska that's available on the road system has no government review of plans, permitting process or inspection requirements. Our Borough, same as a county in the lower 48, has ZERO codes for construction. Code construction is entirely controlled by lenders and we have a thriving private code inspection business in this state. It actually works amazingly well and we have great success in surviving 100+mph winds and a recent (Nov 2018) 7.1 earthquake. In the last decade I've owner built two houses, a 4000 sq ft work shop and remodeled two houses without drawing a single permit other than state D.E.C. for septics. I financed these places outside the normal process, so I haven't been subjected to any inspections. That said, I follow the code guidelines because I know that they work and I will need the houses to pass inspection if I sell them. In the last decade I've helped build in rural western Washington, Idaho and Montana and while they have code enforcement divisions and permitting, it is usually ignored and the fines for not complying are cheap enough that many folks just pay the fines if caught rather than pull a permit.
Honestly, home building still takes long enough for me with modern tools that I can't imagine not using modern tools. Old houses were built by hand by an army of cheap labor. We have replaced that army of cheap labor with modern tools. I would imagine that a flagstone foundation and brick house would keep me busy for a couple years, even if I dug the foundation with excavation equipment.
OP, don’t forget the local geology of the plot you plan to buy. Your idea is doable, but it’d suck for you to start digging and then get 3 feet down and hit something you can’t dig thru, or dig into something that won’t be stable enough to build into.
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