View Full Version : Best lube for AR?
Guys I need help trying to figure out which lube is best. Should I use grease? Gun oil? Motor oil? ATF? Sewing machine oil? Dry lube? No lube? Ballistol? Rem oil? Froglube? Fireclean? CLP? Vaseline? I need to make sure my AR is running in top shape. We need to settle this.
just a scout
11-05-20, 14:21
Slip2000
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PracticalRifleman
11-05-20, 14:24
Just what was needed, another lube thread on the internet. [emoji23]
Why don’t you test each one you have listed and tell us what you discover?
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You’ll get answers swearing to GOD, that Blah (insert one of 50 products) is da best.
The important thing is lube the gun.
An AR will run wet and dirty, not gonna run long dry and dirty.
You're missing one of the better ones: Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil.
I'm seeing that stuff by the gallon by more and more serious-use folk.
wetidlerjr
11-05-20, 14:58
We need, at least, one of these threads a week. :sarcastic:
Metric Matt
11-05-20, 15:02
There are a lot of lubes that work great, I personally prefer the ones that are non-toxic, Slip 2000 EWL, ALG go-juice, froglube, etc. Shooting exposes you to plenty of toxic substances, no need to stack a toxic lube on top of it.
Just what was needed, another lube thread on the internet. [emoji23]
Just what was needed, another comment about another lube thread. J.K., dood. :p
Olive oil smells best.
Cue more of the usual comments: use KY jelly, use Canola oil. As predictable as Democrat voting fraud. :haha:
As Gaijin said: There's no 'scientific' testing of these lubes that holds any water, despite the claims. All the 'comparisons' on YT are just half-assed, narrow, selective, and biased. Some of the tests run by certain well known "tribologist" figures traffic in techno-babble but are ultimately no more scientific nor are their lubes more effective. The few tests that try to be more rigorous and detailed, like the well known one that compared 46 lubes, never have enough sample size to draw any real conclusions. And, they don't test all the factors you'd want to know for a good lube, like how does it do under extreme heat and cold. What matters is pick a reputable gun lube and use it.
As PracticalRifleman said: Try a few, pick one.
What I use: Slip EWL 30 for oil, Slip EWG for grease on slides, rails, and load-bearing parts.
titsonritz
11-05-20, 15:35
It's long overdue for a lube thread. :jester:
Grand58742
11-05-20, 15:37
Why does it always have to be Mobil 1?
Why doesn't Castrol ever get any love?
Olive oil smells best.
I prefer G96 by that measure. :p
wetidlerjr
11-05-20, 16:11
Olive oil smells best.
I think you are on to something. :cool:
Olive oil smells best.
Sorry, If you're um, middle aged and grew up with an overcleaned .22 in your formative years, there is nothing better on blued steel than Hoppes #9! As a 10 year old I thought it was nectar of the God's. I keep a can around just to bring back childhood memories.
FWIW I use Slip2000 now on my AR's.
Choji Oil was omitted.......
WTF?
Been using Geissele Go-Juice/Very Thin Grease for quite a few years now with good results. Nothing negative to say about it.
Why does it always have to be Mobil 1?
Why doesn't Castrol ever get any love?
The ATF in the poll was Castrol brand ;)
Eurodriver
11-05-20, 17:44
As I’ve matured and realized I’m not invincible I’ve began using non toxic stuff wherever possible (not just gun related, but in general). I like Slip 2000 EWL for this purpose.
However, Nightchief recently put me on to that Cherry Balms grease and I found it quite good for the wear areas on the outside of the BCG. I also know some Texans who use Rem-Oil and it seems to work pretty well. Their guns work 75-80% of the time which is great considering they built them themselves and had no idea what they were doing.
PracticalRifleman
11-05-20, 17:48
Whale semen is rumored to work very well. Maybe try that one out?
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THE Blood of Tyrants , because it's oily !
Lube to the left of us, lube to the right...stand up sit down...fight, fight, fight!!
I've gone the way of non-toxic too. At least trying it...Lubriplate food grade grease and oil. So far, GTG.
By the way I did finally receive my Lubri-kit kit. It took 3 months, but I got it.
By accident about 7 years ago, I discovered that a mixture of Slip 2000 EWL 30 and Tetra Gun Oil is very noticeably slicker than either one alone. I have been using it ever since. A little goes a long way, and I now make the unholy concoction and gift it to my friends. If you ever try it, you'll never use anything else.
ETA: I also mix the two greases which also works great. Slip 2000 EWG and Tetra Gun Grease.
I’ve been having good results with Lubriplate, Go Juice, and Cherry Balmz. I’ve also been cleaning sometimes with $3 drugstore mineral oil, with good results. Like Euro and Tom, I’ve been chasing the less-toxic dragon, and I’ve not found the above lubricants to be problematic in any way. I think most anything will work.
Side note, did y’all know that you can keep a PKM running by spraying CLP on the belt, and it’ll get blasted all over the guts without opening the feed tray cover?
Been using Geissele Go-Juice/Very Thin Grease for quite a few years now with good results. Nothing negative to say about it.
As I’ve matured and realized I’m not invincible I’ve began using non toxic stuff wherever possible (not just gun related, but in general). I like Slip 2000 EWL for this purpose.
However, Nightchief recently put me on to that Cherry Balms grease and I found it quite good for the wear areas on the outside of the BCG. I also know some Texans who use Rem-Oil and it seems to work pretty well. Their guns work 75-80% of the time which is great considering they built them themselves and had no idea what they were doing.
Lube to the left of us, lube to the right...stand up sit down...fight, fight, fight!!
I've gone the way of non-toxic too. At least trying it...Lubriplate food grade grease and oil. So far, GTG.
By the way I did finally receive my Lubri-kit kit. It took 3 months, but I got it.
As I’ve matured and realized I’m not invincible I’ve began using non toxic stuff wherever possible (not just gun related, but in general). I like Slip 2000 EWL for this purpose.
However, Nightchief recently put me on to that Cherry Balms grease and I found it quite good for the wear areas on the outside of the BCG. I also know some Texans who use Rem-Oil and it seems to work pretty well. Their guns work 75-80% of the time which is great considering they built them themselves and had no idea what they were doing.
Now that chit is funny.
Like Euro and Tom, I’ve been chasing the less-toxic dragon, and I’ve not found the above lubricants to be problematic in any way.
Are conventional lubricants more toxic than the SDS's indicate? For example G96 Gun Treatment says this:
• Acute Toxicity Estimates:
• Oral Acute Toxicity Estimate for mixture: Not considered toxic
• Dermal Acute Toxicity Estimate for mixture: Not considered toxic
• Inhalation Acute Toxicity Estimate for mixture: Not considered toxic
• Primary irritant effect:
• On the skin: Causes skin irritation.
• On the eye: May cause mild eye irritation based on level of exposure.
• Sensitization: No sensitizing effects known.
• Additional toxicological information:
The product shows the following dangers according to internally approved calculation methods for
preparations: Skin Irritant.
• Carcinogenic categories:
• IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer):
None of the ingredients are listed
• NTP (National Toxicology Program):
None of the ingredients are listed.
• OSHA-Ca (Occupational Safety & Health Administration):
None of the ingredients are listed.
Should I be worried despite this?
I’ve been a fan of FireClean for years and it’s what I prefer, however Geissele’s Go juice is fantastic, and the purple stuff is what I prefer for Ak’s and Scar’s. I’m also a fan of Slip2000 and Lucas gun oil.
Colt Carson
11-05-20, 20:32
I like the Wilson Combat gun oils. I would not use RemOil or motor oil. In a test I saw RemOil and Mobil 1 motor oil performed about equally in corrosion protection, which is to say not very well. I do use Mobil 1 in my automobile though. I have never understood why folks blend their own oil, when engineers have spent time and money developing an optimal oil for the intended purpose.
Olive oil smells best.I liked how frog lube doesn't smell like oil... But ive notice with the paste it's pretty thick when cold. Not that I've tried to push its limits... My AR never didn't fire when shooting in the winter. After a few shots it was hot enough it was fine.
Still using the same stuff but mostly because I haven't run out yet.
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vicious_cb
11-05-20, 21:38
Which lube is best?
Yes..
Mazola Corn Oil
Lard
It's non toxic, right? Beef or mutton tallow is a little more heat tolerant than lard. It's also kosher/halal, which could be good or bad.
I'm a Mobile 1 man, myself.
Andy
Yawn.
I use Aeroshell 6 grease on sliding surfaces and G96 CLP wherever else.
It's non toxic, right? Beef or mutton tallow is a little more heat tolerant than lard. It's also kosher/halal, which could be good or bad.
I'm a Mobile 1 man, myself.
Andy
When SHTF takes place, you could always use Hamburger grease, wiping it from your chin, in between popping off shots at democrats. If you insist on motor oil, most top tier operators insist on Castrol High Mileage 5W 30.
I wonder if those bottles of Lucas octane booster would make my gun function at a more excited rate.
I wonder if those bottles of Lucas octane booster would make my gun function at a more excited rate.
You're actually onto something there. The classes offered at the Mud Creek Tactical Training Center, Finster County, Missouri, offer a lube combining the Lucas Octane Booster with Crisco. Prior to each session, these attendees dip the entire bolt carrier group in that concoction, lightly remove excess and insert in the weapon. This new lube has been tested with thousands of rounds by former Navy Seal, and personal Life Coach, Joe Don McTiernan.
What about these secret homemade concoctions that have been passed down by word of mouth over the years in lesser known gun forum archives of the inter-nets, like "bug juice" and "ed's red" these homemade "super lubes" are supposed to be slicker and cheaper than any store bought product. A mixture of motor oil, automatic transmission fluid, slp, and hoppes solvent sounds slicker than snot to me, and the best part is you'll end up with gallons of it by the time you're done mixing up all those quarts, that'll last long enough to pass it down to your grandkids. This is surely the way to go for the best lube possible.
Mixing up some "Bug Juice" gun lube
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/296021-mixing-up-some-bug-juice-gun-lube.html
Excellent, Cheap, and Homemade Gun Lube - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com
https://forum.officer.com/forum/equipment-tactical/firearms/139007-excellent-cheap-and-homemade-gun-lube
You're actually onto something there. The classes offered at the Mud Creek Tactical Training Center, Finster County, Missouri, offer a lube combining the Lucas Octane Booster with Crisco. Prior to each session, these attendees dip the entire bolt carrier group in that concoction, lightly remove excess and insert in the weapon. This new lube has been tested with thousands of rounds by former Navy Seal, and personal Life Coach, Joe Don McTiernan.
Well then. Huh.
wetidlerjr
11-06-20, 09:30
Mazola Corn Oil
Lard
I use G-OIL (Bio-based Full-Synthetic) for most purposes.
Grand58742
11-06-20, 09:37
When SHTF takes place, you could always use Hamburger grease, wiping it from your chin, in between popping off shots at democrats. If you insist on motor oil, most top tier operators insist on Castrol High Mileage 5W 30.
Finally some Castrol love!
... there is nothing better on blued steel than Hoppes #9! As a 10 year old I thought it was nectar of the God's. I keep a can around just to bring back childhood memories.
^^^^ THIS ^^^^ ... but uhhhhhhh, straight Hoppe’s is a ‘bore cleaner’, not a lube! My Dad had an Irish Setter bird dog that would go nuts whenever he pulled the ol’ shotgun out of its storage location, as that dog knew he was a goin’ hunting! I even bought an old ‘collector’ bottle of early 1950s vintage Hoppe, as it still had Benzine and other chemicals in it that the EPA has since banned ... but boy, the aroma is AMAZING!
For lube, I too am a Slick 2000 fan.
My version of Ed's Red
one quart of Mobile 1 Synthetic
one quart of K-1 kerosene
one quart of Dextron III ATF
one quart of Hoppe's #9
Why I chose these products? It is what was in my garage and handy, except for Hoppe's #9. I really like the smell of Hoppe's and I have been using it since 1973. Old habits are hard to break.
I can't believe SLIP 2000 is popular. Every one of their products I've tried is worthless.
I can't believe SLIP 2000 is popular. Every one of their products I've tried is worthless.
Probably because of Pat Rogers endorsement. He loved that stuff.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Failure2Stop
11-06-20, 11:56
Sigh...guess we were due for a lube thread.
It is 2020 after all...
Lube threads...the light shining in the darkness.
I can't believe SLIP 2000 is popular. Every one of their products I've tried is worthless.
I agree, I tried Slip 2000 EWS side by side with Mobil 1, on two different guns. The Mobile one rifle was noticeably slicker and the lube stayed around much longer, the slip 2000 rifle dried up, the slip evaporated or something. I can lube a rifle with mobile 1, shoot 500 rounds through it, put it away dirty for a couple months, take it out again and shoot another 500 rds through it and it's still slick with mobile 1, if it was slip it would have long since dried up.
strong marketing and lack of common sense is strong in this thread :)
No love for Rem oil? :lol:
NickySantoro
11-06-20, 13:06
Fifty years ago we had LSA. Since then I've used mostly CLP. It's more about how and when than what you use. I've found that those with the most intractable opinions are those high speed, low drag "operators" you find at gun shows wearing size 48 camo pants, black Tee shirts showing off their jiggling man boobs, and "tactical" footwear flattened out under the load.
fishindogwood
11-06-20, 13:50
No love or mention for Weapon Shield? I like their line of products so far.
Why does it always have to be Mobil 1?
Why doesn't Castrol ever get any love?
Or Amsoil too.
No love or mention for Weapon Shield? I like their line of products so far.
Isn't that the stuff you can fry things in to eat?
Bahahahha, love lube threads.
My answer - whatever the **** you like.
Personally, I like SLIP2000 stuff - they all work for me and after buying it, I really don't need lube for several years.
Then again I don't clean a weapon after its shot 1 round or 500rds. I lube regularly (esp AR BCGs) but I'm not a clean freak, so things aren't constantly relubed. I have a hard time thinking ppl go through gallons of lube / cleaning products unless they are professional instructors or simply 'clean' their shit regularly while stroking it.
Why does it always have to be Mobil 1?
Once you get old, you can greatly simplify your life by just "Using Mobil 1 on EVERYTHING". At least that's what all the old guys around here tell me. Regardless of the fact you likely need different oil weights for different things / vehicles, joining the old guy "Mobil 1" team is just one less thing for them to think about. But they still talk about it all the time.... LMFAO.
chamber143
11-06-20, 20:31
Is there a best lube for suppressed rifle. In a class i had after about 250-300 rounds, it got really gummy and wouldnt lock back on last round. I could lube the shit out of it and it would be fine again.
Fifty years ago we had LSA. Since then I've used mostly CLP. It's more about how and when than what you use. I've found that those with the most intractable opinions are those high speed, low drag "operators" you find at gun shows wearing size 48 camo pants, black Tee shirts showing off their jiggling man boobs, and "tactical" footwear flattened out under the load.
I was using LSA starting in 1978. This is one of these topics which really goes nowhere. You can use all brands of gun lubricants in the AR/M4 platform and it's fine. Ever heard that you can over think something? This is it. Most gun lubricants and clean motor oil will suffice.
LookAtYourself
11-06-20, 21:56
Isn't that the stuff you can fry things in to eat?
Bahahahha, love lube threads.
My answer - whatever the **** you like.
Personally, I like SLIP2000 stuff - they all work for me and after buying it, I really don't need lube for several years.
Then again I don't clean a weapon after its shot 1 round or 500rds. I lube regularly (esp AR BCGs) but I'm not a clean freak, so things aren't constantly relubed. I have a hard time thinking ppl go through gallons of lube / cleaning products unless they are professional instructors or simply 'clean' their shit regularly while stroking it.
no that's fireclean.
Pressingonward
11-06-20, 23:14
I'm a noob...I've been using Hornady CLP so far based on some testing I saw on another site...but like I said, I'm a noob and have nothing to compare it to and haven't been using it long enough to form my own opinion
Is there a best lube for suppressed rifle. In a class i had after about 250-300 rounds, it got really gummy and wouldnt lock back on last round. I could lube the shit out of it and it would be fine again.
My buddies and I have been having good luck with Cherry Balm Black Rifle Balm the past several months. Its a little more persistent in the suppressed guns than most other things I’ve tried. Its like it sticks to the metal better, but doesn’t feel sticky like Red and Tacky (which I have not shot with, but dabbed some on once, to see how the bolt would feel). I don’t know that its “the best” or anything.
Is there a best lube for suppressed rifle. In a class i had after about 250-300 rounds, it got really gummy and wouldnt lock back on last round. I could lube the shit out of it and it would be fine again.
FCD snake oil as directed
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I'm a die hard oil guy, but you guys are making me want to try this cherry balmz stuff. Sounds pretty good
chamber143
11-07-20, 09:39
I'm a die hard oil guy, but you guys are making me want to try this cherry balmz stuff. Sounds pretty good
Me too. I wonder if the cherry balmz and the FCD snake oil is the same thing. I see cherry balmz makes it for fcd and the descriptions seem to be the same. Cherry balmz has a buy 2 get 3 special right now so i think I am going to give it a try
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There are a lot of lubes that work great, I personally prefer the ones that are non-toxic, Slip 2000 EWL, ALG go-juice, froglube, etc. Shooting exposes you to plenty of toxic substances, no need to stack a toxic lube on top of it.
Yes, non-toxic for me too. Not that I spend a lot of time cleaning my firearm.. I have a supply of lube from my failed frog lube experiment that I use on the exterior because it is good for rust prevention. I use Balistol for cleaning and light lube, ALG for oil needs and ALG light grease for grease needs.
shadowrider
11-07-20, 12:11
Yes, non-toxic for me too. Not that I spend a lot of time cleaning my firearm.. I have a supply of lube from my failed frog lube experiment that I use on the exterior because it is good for rust prevention. I use Balistol for cleaning and light lube, ALG for oil needs and ALG light grease for grease needs.
This is me just about exactly. Froglube paste on the outside. Redline assembly lube on the cam pin and BCG, and just about anything everywhere else. Usually Amsoil or Lucas Extreme, but hell Ballistol even works.
JR TACTICAL
11-07-20, 12:17
I recently switched to grease cut with a little CLP and I am a huge fan.
I can say I used froglube for years on a recommendation of a member here and it worked great and as advertised. I liked the fact that the FL would stay in place when applied and then run as the weapon heated up into where it needed to be.
I finally ran out of the FL and I bought a Springfield M1A shortly before. After reading about the M1A and noting they are supposed to be greased instead of using low viscosity lube I bought a tub of Lucas Red and tacky grease.
After a shooting session with both the m1a and AR's while cleaning i figured what the hell, I will try the grease on the AR and I am happy I did. Now, let me say I apply a very thin coat to the BCG and CH and that is it. I still use CLP in the barrel and bore and occasionally some solvent when I want to do a deep clean.
As stated I also cut the Lucas Red and tacky with some CLP and it applies very similar to the FL. It goes on and stays where you put it and seems to work great after about 500 rounds of testing.
Just my 2 cents and I know my opinion is not even worth that but for $10 for the Lucas and another 8$ for CLP I think I may have enough lube/grease to last a lifetime and still have enough to pass on to my kids.
Cheers fellas!
JR
Dr. Bullseye
11-07-20, 12:32
Just what was needed, another lube thread on the internet. [emoji23]
Why don’t you test each one you have listed and tell us what you discover?
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Yes, you are right, this is EXACTLY what is needed---a real question from a real guy who wants your opinion. Or do you want to go back to the AR Fashion Show and the "I know everything" mentality?
To answer, my favorite is LSA. LSA was made for the AR by lubrication engineers. It is a synthetic oil held in suspension by lithium grease. It also contains an anti corrosion and an anti rust agent. It is cheap.
But the accumulated experience seems to indicate anything, any lube, is just fine.
I'm a die hard oil guy, but you guys are making me want to try this cherry balmz stuff. Sounds pretty good
I am not an oil brand snob but have never tried cherry balmz. I just checked out their website and ordered two bottles of their Black Rifle lube on sale for $8.95 shipped. For that price it's worth a try.
PracticalRifleman
11-07-20, 16:21
Yes, you are right, this is EXACTLY what is needed---a real question from a real guy who wants your opinion. Or do you want to go back to the AR Fashion Show and the "I know everything" mentality?
To answer, my favorite is LSA. LSA was made for the AR by lubrication engineers. It is a synthetic oil held in suspension by lithium grease. It also contains an anti corrosion and an anti rust agent. It is cheap.
But the accumulated experience seems to indicate anything, any lube, is just fine.
Because this hasn’t been discussed at all on this or any other number of sites such that it warrants yet another thread? [emoji849]
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chamber143
11-07-20, 17:02
My buddies and I have been having good luck with Cherry Balm Black Rifle Balm the past several months. Its a little more persistent in the suppressed guns than most other things I’ve tried. Its like it sticks to the metal better, but doesn’t feel sticky like Red and Tacky (which I have not shot with, but dabbed some on once, to see how the bolt would feel). I don’t know that its “the best” or anything.
I bought some to try today. I went through a class a couple of weeks ago with a suppressed 11.5 and found that after about 250-300 rounds, that reloads would have to be charged by the charging handle and not the bolt release. The round seemed to to get stuck on the feed lips and if I used the charging handle it worked fine. Then after about another 100 rounds on top of the 250-300, it wouldn't lock back on the last round. I suppose that the bolt and upper receiver were so gummed up and carboned up that it was having friction issues. That being said it cycled and ran fine and had no hiccups other than what was stated.
I've been using militec and like it. Ars and 1911s
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chamber143
11-08-20, 08:25
If i had to guess, he’s being clever, given all the stupid names and the amounts of lubes on the market.
sandsunsurf
11-08-20, 18:12
I still have a dozen small bottles of Slip 2000 EWP scattered in every bag and vehicle and I use that in the field and at work. If I’m cleaning at home, I use Lucas gun oil and I like it, too. I haven’t been running ARs hard any more, usually bolt guns and Ruger 22/45s these days..
A lube thread! What is this, Reddit?
A lighter subject was needed to distract from all the weeping and gnashing of teeth. OOOO look, the shiny lube!
Any qualty oil with enough viscocity to cling to the rifle will do.
Over the years I've read plenty of lube threads and I seem to learn something new every time. I am always on the look out for high quality, non-toxic lube for firearms.
Slip 2000 EWL. High quality and non-toxic.
Captains1911
11-15-20, 20:49
I’ve been using Slip 2000 EWL and EWL 30, depending on desired thickness, for all my gun oiling needs for years now. It works so well for me I have no reason to try anything else.
Sprinco MGL Machine Gun Lube.
1 of 2 votes for Ballistol. :dance3: As far as I know it is the only CLP concoction that dissolves lead and various jacket fouling, albeit slower than a dedicated product.
20-50 syntec. Run it through your tractor diesel engine for at least 100 hours prior to using on your AR. Can you say ode de Diesel' ?
The point is keep it lubed. Use what you have in the machine shed. The rifle will not be offended by the smell.
I prefer liquid dish detergent. It yields cleaner kills.
Seriously, put me in the camp with those who say it is less important which gun lube you use, just maintain the gun properly.
Ned Christiansen
11-20-20, 10:22
I posted this on LTW seven years ago-- I think it is here on M4C somewhere but rather than try to find it and post a link, thus risking resurrecting an old lube thread to go with this new one, I thought I would copy and paste it here. Offered mostly for entertainment purposes but.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alternate, field-expedient lubes and the AR15
-OR-
How I discovered a new wonder material that may replace alloy steel and titanium in industry
I am approached once in a while by makers or distributors of new or existing gun lubes; they want me to try their product and find it superior and tell everybody.
I don’t at all mind touting a particular product if I find it really is good…. I do that all the time in classes. On the flipside, I don’t care to run a particular product down because it’s crappy. Either way I’m always conscious that somebody may think that, where I say it’s good, I must be getting something for it. Where I say it’s bad, maybe I have an axe to grind. But when I’m doing a class, I can’t let any kind of political correctness get in the way of sharing the knowledge I’m being paid to share. Especially when the students are the police, I need to be telling them what works well and what stinks; it would be a disservice to them to do otherwise.
In the case of lubes, it’s pretty easy. I think some of them make some pretty silly claims, some of which carry a whiff of BS with them. I’m not equipped or inclined to try and debunk them, because I don’t care that much—whether or not the claims are molecularly, microscopically, organically, or bionically accurate, the lubes work. I haven’t tried them all, and admittedly some that I have tried have not been tested to the Nth degree, but I have yet to find the commercially-offered gun lube that truly does not work or does more harm than good.
The bottom line with the AR is, if you keep it wet with something oily, it will keep running, even when it is quite dirty. Let it get too dry and the problems will start. We assume here of course, that the thing is properly made and maintained (not as common as one might think).
I am always all ears around guys who have used this system in truly harsh environments, dust of course being the big problem in the last couple decades—where, four decades ago it was constant moisture and humidity. A few of them have said their dust solution was to run it dry, but the majority of them have said that the solution to dust is to keep it lubed, and clean it frequently. Yes, the dust sticks to the lube but at the least the lube keeps the dust suspended and maintains a layer of “slipperyness” between moving parts. In my own experience with hundreds (and hundreds) of rifles, this works, although I am short on dust experience. But carbon and fouling build up from shooting and not cleaning the AR will not bring it to a stop as long as it is kept wet and gooey.
As to what lube to pick up at the gun store, I just tell guys, get the one that comes in the bottle / applicator that is most convenient for you. In other words, a gallon paint can of lube that comes with a ladle would be pretty inconvenient. I like a small squeeze bottle with some kind of stem on it so I can control where the lube goes. Beyond that I just say that grease it thicker than you need and WD40 is thinner than you need, although both will work, at least until you can get something better. Me, I always go back to what I ran in the Ducati—50% synthetic 10 W 40. I use it on everything and it works fine in all conditions. Some of the newer lubes are of a watery consistency….. I have tried them and they worked but I admit to a certain prejudice to the tune of, “It doesn’t feel oily. How can it be a lube?” One or more of these has quite a following and I don’t say they are wrong.
Over the last two training seasons I have run a little experiment with lubes. Improvised or field expedient lubes, you might say. This was not to put down any of the available gun lubes; l just wanted to prove (or disprove) my idea that “just keeping something oily on it” would get you by. This was done during Chicago-area police patrol rifle classes, the ones where Patrick Sweeney and I are on the instructor staff. Students go through 950-1200 rounds in these classes; I am not there to shoot but I do have to shoot the qualification each time. Sometimes I’ll step in and fill a void on the line and sometimes I can wander off to another range for a little while and do some testing.
The first thing I tried was some SPF 40 sunblock. I doubt the SPF has anything to do with it 8). The brand escapes me but this was not an oily type of sunblock, it was a white cream, the kind that once it’s on and rubbed in you pretty much don’t know it’s there other than the hint of coconut scent. This was actually beneficial because while my physical being was shooting a scorching rifle on a searing, sweat-dripping day, my mind was on the beach somewhere and the only dripping sweat was coming off the Corona in my hand.
This stuff totally got the job done for 170 rounds on one application. I reapplied and went for about another 70 rounds, with no problems. Now this is not a whole lot of rounds, and with some real lube I would expect to go at least double that and more on one application. You might even get there or almost there bone-dry (but I really doubt it). But I think it shows us that you can’t say “no way will that work”.
Parkay was next. Now mind you I am not at all saying sunblock or Parkay should be used. ANY gunlube will surely be better. As Jeff Chudwin, our chief instructor always says, if you have a car around, you have lube. Take out the dipstick and start lubing.
But Parkay also worked well, and I took it further than I did with the sunblock. In July of 2012, I completely cleaned and dried the bolt carrier group of the carbine—with mineral spririts, so there was no hint of lube left. I sprayed on the Parkay and since then, until Septemer of 2013, I used nothing else. I didn’t clean it beyond having the bolt carrier group out two or three times to eyeball it, during which it got a very minimal wipe-off and re-application.
I went at least 150 rounds on the first application. After that I reapplied as I felt necessary, but nothing that could be called "frequently". I was pretty generous with the stuff. Now this is a carbine that doesn’t always get a lot of use outside of classes so it sat uncleaned between classes (really hard for me as I am a gun cleaning enthusiast). It sat uncleaned all last winter but got Parkay reapplied and a trip out back for a warm-up once in a while. In June of this summer classes started back up so between last summer and this summer, I ran about 400 rounds through it on Parkay. There was not a single issue of any kind in shooting it.
But, don’t bother trying this. Parkay works, I think I proved my point or at least did something most other people haven’t done, but Parkay sucks as a gun lube because when it sits for a couple-three weeks it gets gummy. So after each interim, bolt carrier movement would be anywhere from a tad gummy to pretty darned sluggish. But, a quick re-app of Parkay, even without disassembly, would immediately bring it back to free-moving, working order. I hosed it in through the ejection port, into the carrier exhaust ports, and was liberal enough with it that I knew it was running into the carrier’s cam slot.
Three days ago I got this carbine out of the safe, having decided it was time to end the experiment. It has been sitting since early September, the longest hiatus yet, and was sluggish to the point that any kind of function was out of the question. As a final chapter, I hosed it with more Parkay and once again, it came back to life after several strokes (but I did not shoot it). It seemed one of the best solvents for hardened Parkay is…. more Parkay. But as I was about to find out, it is not THAT good…..
This is where I tell you that “don’t try this at home” is a huge understatement. Something more akin to, “If you read the below and still try this at home, you are hopeless” would be more like it.
I Discover PSR
Once I wiped off the last application of Parkay, only minutes old, I got down to the year’s buildup of nasty, baked-on, carbon-fouled Parkay Super Residue. Imagine coating your bolt carrier group with 3M Contact Cement mixed with Testor’s model glue at about 50/50. And it was not the kind of thing where you could get under it with a scraper in one place and lift the rest of it off—it was ALL stuck on, everywhere. All the nooks and crannies that are hard to get into, physically. I tried more Parkay. I tried WD40. I tried Simple Green. I went back to mechanical removal. Then I tried softening it by putting the bolt and carrier on the wood stove. Then I tried some generic topical anesthetic burn ointment—I mean heck, I had it right there on my fingers after I tried picking up the carrier off the stove…….. nothing but nothing would just “float” this stuff off!
I cut the top off a Guinness can and filled it halfway with olive oil, and simmered everything for a couple hours on the wood stove. This may have helped a little…. but in the end I went back to scraping. Then dishwater and stiff brushes, rinse, dry, scrape the now-visible areas that need it… repeat twice. No, I never considered soaking it in Guinness an shame on you for thinking it.
There are still a few areas that have a little PSR in them but nothing big enough that, should it fall off, it might cause a malfunction.
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09986.jpg
....you might want to think twice about what you put on your popcorn!
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09989.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09988.jpg
For all firearms in my possesion, I usally use a Ballistol Multi-Purpose Oil. It is is a superior product. It is non-toxic and does a better job of preventing corrosion. It is also a superior bore cleaner and when mixed 50/50 with water it can be used to clean residue from corrosive ammo and black powder firearms.
Grand58742
11-20-20, 11:51
....you might want to think twice about what you put on your popcorn!
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09989.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09988.jpg
Forgive my ignorance, but what kind of BCG is that with those weird side cuts?
I posted this on LTW seven years ago-- I think it is here on M4C somewhere but rather than try to find it and post a link, thus risking resurrecting an old lube thread to go with this new one, I thought I would copy and paste it here. Offered mostly for entertainment purposes but.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alternate, field-expedient lubes and the AR15
-OR-
How I discovered a new wonder material that may replace alloy steel and titanium in industry
I am approached once in a while by makers or distributors of new or existing gun lubes; they want me to try their product and find it superior and tell everybody.
I don’t at all mind touting a particular product if I find it really is good…. I do that all the time in classes. On the flipside, I don’t care to run a particular product down because it’s crappy. Either way I’m always conscious that somebody may think that, where I say it’s good, I must be getting something for it. Where I say it’s bad, maybe I have an axe to grind. But when I’m doing a class, I can’t let any kind of political correctness get in the way of sharing the knowledge I’m being paid to share. Especially when the students are the police, I need to be telling them what works well and what stinks; it would be a disservice to them to do otherwise.
In the case of lubes, it’s pretty easy. I think some of them make some pretty silly claims, some of which carry a whiff of BS with them. I’m not equipped or inclined to try and debunk them, because I don’t care that much—whether or not the claims are molecularly, microscopically, organically, or bionically accurate, the lubes work. I haven’t tried them all, and admittedly some that I have tried have not been tested to the Nth degree, but I have yet to find the commercially-offered gun lube that truly does not work or does more harm than good.
The bottom line with the AR is, if you keep it wet with something oily, it will keep running, even when it is quite dirty. Let it get too dry and the problems will start. We assume here of course, that the thing is properly made and maintained (not as common as one might think).
I am always all ears around guys who have used this system in truly harsh environments, dust of course being the big problem in the last couple decades—where, four decades ago it was constant moisture and humidity. A few of them have said their dust solution was to run it dry, but the majority of them have said that the solution to dust is to keep it lubed, and clean it frequently. Yes, the dust sticks to the lube but at the least the lube keeps the dust suspended and maintains a layer of “slipperyness” between moving parts. In my own experience with hundreds (and hundreds) of rifles, this works, although I am short on dust experience. But carbon and fouling build up from shooting and not cleaning the AR will not bring it to a stop as long as it is kept wet and gooey.
As to what lube to pick up at the gun store, I just tell guys, get the one that comes in the bottle / applicator that is most convenient for you. In other words, a gallon paint can of lube that comes with a ladle would be pretty inconvenient. I like a small squeeze bottle with some kind of stem on it so I can control where the lube goes. Beyond that I just say that grease it thicker than you need and WD40 is thinner than you need, although both will work, at least until you can get something better. Me, I always go back to what I ran in the Ducati—50% synthetic 10 W 40. I use it on everything and it works fine in all conditions. Some of the newer lubes are of a watery consistency….. I have tried them and they worked but I admit to a certain prejudice to the tune of, “It doesn’t feel oily. How can it be a lube?” One or more of these has quite a following and I don’t say they are wrong.
Over the last two training seasons I have run a little experiment with lubes. Improvised or field expedient lubes, you might say. This was not to put down any of the available gun lubes; l just wanted to prove (or disprove) my idea that “just keeping something oily on it” would get you by. This was done during Chicago-area police patrol rifle classes, the ones where Patrick Sweeney and I are on the instructor staff. Students go through 950-1200 rounds in these classes; I am not there to shoot but I do have to shoot the qualification each time. Sometimes I’ll step in and fill a void on the line and sometimes I can wander off to another range for a little while and do some testing.
The first thing I tried was some SPF 40 sunblock. I doubt the SPF has anything to do with it 8). The brand escapes me but this was not an oily type of sunblock, it was a white cream, the kind that once it’s on and rubbed in you pretty much don’t know it’s there other than the hint of coconut scent. This was actually beneficial because while my physical being was shooting a scorching rifle on a searing, sweat-dripping day, my mind was on the beach somewhere and the only dripping sweat was coming off the Corona in my hand.
This stuff totally got the job done for 170 rounds on one application. I reapplied and went for about another 70 rounds, with no problems. Now this is not a whole lot of rounds, and with some real lube I would expect to go at least double that and more on one application. You might even get there or almost there bone-dry (but I really doubt it). But I think it shows us that you can’t say “no way will that work”.
Parkay was next. Now mind you I am not at all saying sunblock or Parkay should be used. ANY gunlube will surely be better. As Jeff Chudwin, our chief instructor always says, if you have a car around, you have lube. Take out the dipstick and start lubing.
But Parkay also worked well, and I took it further than I did with the sunblock. In July of 2012, I completely cleaned and dried the bolt carrier group of the carbine—with mineral spririts, so there was no hint of lube left. I sprayed on the Parkay and since then, until Septemer of 2013, I used nothing else. I didn’t clean it beyond having the bolt carrier group out two or three times to eyeball it, during which it got a very minimal wipe-off and re-application.
I went at least 150 rounds on the first application. After that I reapplied as I felt necessary, but nothing that could be called "frequently". I was pretty generous with the stuff. Now this is a carbine that doesn’t always get a lot of use outside of classes so it sat uncleaned between classes (really hard for me as I am a gun cleaning enthusiast). It sat uncleaned all last winter but got Parkay reapplied and a trip out back for a warm-up once in a while. In June of this summer classes started back up so between last summer and this summer, I ran about 400 rounds through it on Parkay. There was not a single issue of any kind in shooting it.
But, don’t bother trying this. Parkay works, I think I proved my point or at least did something most other people haven’t done, but Parkay sucks as a gun lube because when it sits for a couple-three weeks it gets gummy. So after each interim, bolt carrier movement would be anywhere from a tad gummy to pretty darned sluggish. But, a quick re-app of Parkay, even without disassembly, would immediately bring it back to free-moving, working order. I hosed it in through the ejection port, into the carrier exhaust ports, and was liberal enough with it that I knew it was running into the carrier’s cam slot.
Three days ago I got this carbine out of the safe, having decided it was time to end the experiment. It has been sitting since early September, the longest hiatus yet, and was sluggish to the point that any kind of function was out of the question. As a final chapter, I hosed it with more Parkay and once again, it came back to life after several strokes (but I did not shoot it). It seemed one of the best solvents for hardened Parkay is…. more Parkay. But as I was about to find out, it is not THAT good…..
This is where I tell you that “don’t try this at home” is a huge understatement. Something more akin to, “If you read the below and still try this at home, you are hopeless” would be more like it.
I Discover PSR
Once I wiped off the last application of Parkay, only minutes old, I got down to the year’s buildup of nasty, baked-on, carbon-fouled Parkay Super Residue. Imagine coating your bolt carrier group with 3M Contact Cement mixed with Testor’s model glue at about 50/50. And it was not the kind of thing where you could get under it with a scraper in one place and lift the rest of it off—it was ALL stuck on, everywhere. All the nooks and crannies that are hard to get into, physically. I tried more Parkay. I tried WD40. I tried Simple Green. I went back to mechanical removal. Then I tried softening it by putting the bolt and carrier on the wood stove. Then I tried some generic topical anesthetic burn ointment—I mean heck, I had it right there on my fingers after I tried picking up the carrier off the stove…….. nothing but nothing would just “float” this stuff off!
I cut the top off a Guinness can and filled it halfway with olive oil, and simmered everything for a couple hours on the wood stove. This may have helped a little…. but in the end I went back to scraping. Then dishwater and stiff brushes, rinse, dry, scrape the now-visible areas that need it… repeat twice. No, I never considered soaking it in Guinness an shame on you for thinking it.
There are still a few areas that have a little PSR in them but nothing big enough that, should it fall off, it might cause a malfunction.
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09986.jpg
....you might want to think twice about what you put on your popcorn!
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09989.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/NedChristiansen/DSC09988.jpg
that's what I'm talking about! Love to try different things just for kicks. Have never tried Parkay!
Forgive my ignorance, but what kind of BCG is that with those weird side cuts?
Might be a JP
Dr. Bullseye
11-21-20, 00:46
Someone should tell us what lube does not work.
Someone should tell us what lube does not work.
Water sucks as a lube.
Ned Christiansen
11-21-20, 10:05
Someone should tell us what lube does not work.
Dr. Bullseye, that simple line is a stroke of genius and should from this day forward be the boilerplate response to any lube thread!
That is a JP carrier.
Glock9mm1990
11-27-20, 16:30
Gun lube is a scam. Just get a quart of synthetic motor oil and save money. It stays on longer, resists heat better and doesn’t run off as much.
Someone should tell us what lube does not work.
They all work. Define "work", and define "for what purpose."
I will clean with Breakfree CLP, to include the barrel. For lubing (like the BCG) I use Slip2000 EWL.
I can tell you from experience that Fireclean is hogwash. I had a Colt 6920 that I lubed with Fireclean and didn't shoot that particular upper again for like 2 years. It wouldn't even cycle when fired the shit had gummed up so bad in the BCG.
battlestage
11-27-20, 19:57
I've been using Cherry Balmz Black Rifle Balm. Is it the best? It works well enough.
I've been using Cherry Balmz Black Rifle Balm. Is it the best? It works well enough.
This or FCD Snake Oil on high wear, in combination with a quality light oil elsewhere. I prefer to lube directly and not rely on migration. Grease or oil where needed only, when needed only.
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
Chad lubes a lot of weapons, I prefer to meet my needs, not his.
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
dumbest $hit I've seen in a long time
Glock9mm1990
11-28-20, 15:33
Yeah I’ll just stick with regular Mobil 1. I use 10W-30. Lube as you normally would.
Yeah I’ll just stick with regular Mobil 1. I use 10W-30. Lube as you normally would.
it's all I use, everything else is just a waste of money. There is nothing that is materially better and when you factor in cost, nothing is better period.
I prefer ALG go juice right now. I use both the grease and the lube.
Those of you that feel expensive automotive oil is the way, the truth, and the light, and everything else is a waste of money: did you know that Lubriplate is essentially the same price per gallon?
Those of you that feel expensive automotive oil is the way, the truth, and the light, and everything else is a waste of money: did you know that Lubriplate is essentially the same price per gallon?
As they scream "how dare you" while fleeing to their fainting couches, lmao.
SeriousStudent
11-28-20, 17:26
Water sucks as a lube.
That is what I have been doing wrong. :(
I was using the tears from all the people I banned in GD threads. It was cheap and plentiful, but I guess I'll have to switch now.
Glock9mm1990
11-28-20, 17:30
it's all I use, everything else is just a waste of money. There is nothing that is materially better and when you factor in cost, nothing is better period.
My experience dedicated gun lubes don’t stay on as long as regular motor oil. Not saying it’s the end all be all. But my and others experience has been positive so far, don’t see a need to go back. Certainly haven’t seen anything negative about it.
That is what I have been doing wrong. :(
I was using the tears from all the people I banned in GD threads. It was cheap and plentiful, but I guess I'll have to switch now.Any worries of over lubrication?
Salt scrape off easily enough, or just keep reapplying?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
SeriousStudent
11-28-20, 17:55
Any worries of over lubrication?
Salt scrape off easily enough, or just keep reapplying?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Not really. It arrives in such copious quantities, so I just dip the entire firearm in the bucket when it starts to get a little dry. Keeps the scale from forming.
Hey, maybe I could get a federal grant to do a study!
Finally, I will be able to afford ammo - woot! :)
Glock9mm1990
11-28-20, 18:06
My only worry about over lubing is if it gets on one’s defensive ammo in a HD/Duty gun.
SeriousStudent
11-28-20, 18:09
My only worry about over lubing is if it gets on one’s defensive ammo in a HD/Duty gun.
That is actually an excellent point, and why we beg people to stay the hell away from WD-40.
Glock9mm1990
11-28-20, 18:15
That is actually an excellent point, and why we beg people to stay the hell away from WD-40.
Who the hell recommends WD40?
That is actually an excellent point, and why we beg people to stay the hell away from WD-40.Is this bad for the ammo?
My concern with WD-40 is that it is pretty flammable isn't it?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
That is what I have been doing wrong. :(
I was using the tears from all the people I banned in GD threads. It was cheap and plentiful, but I guess I'll have to switch now.
It was the sodium content that screwed you. Might as well use ocean water.
:rolleyes:
My only worry about over lubing is if it gets on one’s defensive ammo in a HD/Duty gun.
In any of my handguns that I keep loaded (like round-in-the-chamber) once I am done cleaning I use clean, dry pieces of an old T-shirt to pull through the barrel and remove any oil. Lube on the rails/slide interface is minimal, usually just a tad of gun grease, that's it. Basically not much lube overall to seep into a primer.
Is this bad for the ammo?
My concern with WD-40 is that it is pretty flammable isn't it?
Ammunition can be "deactivated" by oils seeping into the primers and screwing with ignition. Granted, it probably takes a good deal to do so but I stay on the safe side and want a dry chamber for loaded firearms.
Ammunition can be "deactivated" by oils seeping into the primers and screwing with ignition. Granted, it probably takes a good deal to do so but I stay on the safe side and want a dry chamber for loaded firearms.That makes sense, thanks. Especially something for HD that may sit idle for weeks or months with a round chambered.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
SeriousStudent
11-28-20, 21:55
Who the hell recommends WD40?
In a conversation at a public gun range. I couldn't help listening, since Cletus was bellowing it at Lurlene. Sometimes electronic ear pro is not a blessing.
"Spray this thing chock fulla WD-40. It'll never rust, and run as smooth as glass."
I also thought: and think of the money you'll save on suppressors, since it'll never make a sound...
Sigh. I pay to shoot at a private range now, and it helps. Somewhat.
Glock9mm1990
11-28-20, 22:11
In a conversation at a public gun range. I couldn't help listening, since Cletus was bellowing it at Lurlene. Sometimes electronic ear pro is not a blessing.
"Spray this thing chock fulla WD-40. It'll never rust, and run as smooth as glass."
I also thought: and think of the money you'll save on suppressors, since it'll never make a sound...
Sigh. I pay to shoot at a private range now, and it helps. Somewhat.
Reminds me of a gun shop I visited once. The owner was a trip.
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
Boy, I sure hope that Sriracha bottle doesn't somehow find it's way into the kitchen, haha.
Boy, I sure hope that Sriracha bottle doesn't somehow find it's way into the kitchen, haha.
Y’know, when I saw that screencap, first thought was “genius!”. But now that you mention it, my knuckledragging ass would mess that up somehow.
Those of you that feel expensive automotive oil is the way, the truth, and the light, and everything else is a waste of money: did you know that Lubriplate is essentially the same price per gallon?
Which Lubriplate oil do you use? Is it available in smaller quantities than a gallon?
I know there is at least one company repackaging Lubriplate FMO 350 AW into smaller bottles, which understandably increases the price.
Lubriplate is also not a "gun oil", so I think you would find more pushback from the "gun oil" camp than the "motor oil" camp.
Andy
As they scream "how dare you" while fleeing to their fainting couches, lmao.
So people who don't believe in buying flavor of the month gun oil @ $100+ per quart have fainting couches? LOL
Which Lubriplate oil do you use? Is it available in smaller quantities than a gallon?
I know there is at least one company repackaging Lubriplate FMO 350 AW into smaller bottles, which understandably increases the price.
Andy yup, that one. I’m not religious about it, though, and also use ALG oil, Cherry Balm grease, Lubrikit grease syringes, TW25b, issued CLP, drug store mineral oil ($2/pint!), anything that comes free in a ketchup packet, pretty much whatever. I’ve even been known to raid a dipstick from time to time. But I gravitate toward the reduced toxicity options when I can, which is most of the time.
I'm lubed, loaded, and zeroed, still hoping for the best though. I fear we may have more trouble than the correct lube.
Colt Carson
11-29-20, 20:13
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
Packing your bolt carrier with grease like it’s automobile wheel bearings, first time I’ve seen that! I wonder why the guy in the video doesn’t use a “home brew” oil in his vehicles.
Packing your bolt carrier with grease like it’s automobile wheel bearings, first time I’ve seen that!
That crap was way past excessive.
That crap was way past excessive.
I didn't watch the whole thing but now I'm gonna go back and watch it.
Edited to add: Holy crap!
Mysteryman
11-29-20, 22:06
Wow, guy in the video as a complete f**king moron..
Leonidas24
11-30-20, 00:00
Wow, guy in the video as a complete f**king moron..
He's also a member here that's made some very useful contributions to the AR world. Food for thought.
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
I gotta say that I thought he wasn't serious as I watched it. I like to grease where there's supposed to be grease, and oil where there's supposed to be oil, but I can't imagine someone packing the crap out of the BCG as Chad did seriously. Especially because he is arguably one of the most knowledgeable guys on this forum (or any forum) about the AR's specs. But what do I know?:meeting:
I will clean with Breakfree CLP, to include the barrel. For lubing (like the BCG) I use Slip2000 EWL.
I can tell you from experience that Fireclean is hogwash. I had a Colt 6920 that I lubed with Fireclean and didn't shoot that particular upper again for like 2 years. It wouldn't even cycle when fired the shit had gummed up so bad in the BCG.
My experience also with Frog Lube used as a lube. It became a sticky pasty over time but good as a surface rust preventative.
School of The American Rifle
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
I wouldn't say he actually packed the BCG with grease, but, man that is an awful lot of lube on everything. It was even all over the outside of the gun.
Ammunition can be "deactivated" by oils seeping into the primers and screwing with ignition. Granted, it probably takes a good deal to do so but I stay on the safe side and want a dry chamber for loaded firearms.
Just for S&G one day while reloading I took a half dozen 45 ACP cases, primed them with a couple different brands of primer (CCI and FED IIRC), and squirted about 1/8" of WD40 into the cases. Let it sit overnight. So the primers soaked in WD40 overnight.
Ran all of them through a pistol the next AM, every single one went bang.
I agree that a bunch of lube on the ammo and in the chamber is bad practice, but if WD40 does this it takes quite a while. And with sealed/crimped primer ammo it has some creeping to do......
Anyhow, I've heard this a lot in the interwebs but not sure I believe it. My test was not close to controlled, long term, trying rifle and pistol primers, etc. Just one guy in his garage one day who wondered......
WD40 definitely does gum up with time. Another lube that gums up with time is Wilson Ultra lube. I've had it gum up 1911's that sat for a year. Air conditioned safe storage. Really.
MountainRaven
11-30-20, 14:52
What if the issue with WD-40 isn't that it kills the primers, but kills (or otherwise drastically alters) the powder burn rate?
Grand58742
11-30-20, 15:06
I've often wondered whether chainsaw bar and chain oil might work okay? It has the added tack to it to keep it from slinging off the chain. Kind of a cross between grease and oil.
More of a curiosity than a realistic exercise.
Boy, I sure hope that Sriracha bottle doesn't somehow find it's way into the kitchen, haha.
The label is the law ;) chad is a good dude with a wealth of knowledge and experience, but that’s a sh!t ton of lube that I would say is excessive.
Mysteryman
11-30-20, 16:58
He's also a member here that's made some very useful contributions to the AR world. Food for thought.
So what...
If the video was a spoof then he got me. I don't think it's too funny as many people will believe it and thus regurgitate that garbage. There's more than enough stupid dogmatic crap that has been passed on for decades that needs to die. We don't need to add to the pile of BS.
I have to laugh.....the first few shots after that pasting is gonna spew shit everywhere out the ejection port!
I have to laugh.....the first few shots after that pasting is gonna spew shit everywhere out the ejection port!
Yeah I thought the same thing.
I tried grease once, it held all the carbon, it was extremely messy to clean up.
I only use a touch of grease in my truck gun ( 300Blk). Just because it sits so much.
Grand58742
11-30-20, 18:17
Yeah I thought the same thing.
I tried grease once, it held all the carbon, it was extremely messy to clean up.
I only use a touch of grease in my truck gun ( 300Blk). Just because it sits so much.
Seems like LSA would work for that (if you can find it these days)
Seems like LSA would work for that (if you can find it these days)
Ahh, the original "gun cum"!
Ahh, the original "gun cum"!
Being Navy we called it Whale sperm........
Being Navy we called it Whale sperm........
Odd the way things converge. https://www.scran.ac.uk/packs/exhibitions/learning_materials/webs/40/lubricants.htm
However, the finest lubricants came from sperm whales, a fishery dominated by the Americans. Sperm whales, like all whales, have a blubber layer but in addition they also have within their heads a huge reservoir (known as the case or mellon) containing up to 2,000 litres of a straw-colored, oily wax called case oil. Case oil was easily harvested since the head-matter was liquid when warm; the head of the sperm whale was simply cut open and then the oil could be bailed-out with a bucket, straight from case to cask.
Case oil also contained Spermaceti, a solid, white, crystalline wax that congeals on contact with air. Spermaceti was named from the Latin sperma, �sperm,� and cetus, �whale,� in the mis-belief that it was the coagulated semen of the whale.
Leonidas24
11-30-20, 19:24
So what...
If the video was a spoof then he got me. I don't think it's too funny as many people will believe it and thus regurgitate that garbage. There's more than enough stupid dogmatic crap that has been passed on for decades that needs to die. We don't need to add to the pile of BS.
Relax a bit. Lube threads tend to get everyone really on edge for some reason. It was just a few years ago LAV dunked a BCG in a tube of Mobil 1 (or some brand of motor oil) before installing it straight into an AR and shooting it. Yeah it went everywhere for a few rounds but it didn't cause a singularity to form which engulfed a hundred square miles of land around it. The SOTAR vid looks like a lot of lube, I agree, and don't use that much on my ARs, but with that said I understand his position of cost vs benefit and if that lube technique works for him, then what's the issue?
So the slather fest lube video was a spoof? I was thinking. wow, he uses a lot of lube.
Grand58742
12-01-20, 11:05
Ahh, the original "gun cum"!
Hey, say what you want, the stuff was decent.
Seems like LSA would work for that (if you can find it these days)Not sure I have ever heard of LSA.
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So the slather fest lube video was a spoof? I was thinking. wow, he uses a lot of lube.
I can see no evidence of that.
I can see no evidence of that.
I didn't either, but some mentioned it in passing so I wasn't sure.
Grand58742
12-01-20, 13:33
Not sure I have ever heard of LSA.
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Old style lube recommended for ARs/M16 FOW. It's decent stuff and the LSA-T is even better. About halfway between grease and oil in consistency.
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/1197aa26-c2e7-4d91-8c7b-40d7c55a40b3_1.f8491eabb4764669897e746dba5ccfa3.jpeg
LSA (lubricant, semi-fluid, automatic weapons), it was still used by us for the M-2 in Iraq in 2006-7. We had to go to the Marines to get more as we never had enough. The dirt stuck to it like there was no tomorrow but it would allow Ma duece to run and run well. We were told not to use it on the 240-B but did anyway.
Grand58742
12-01-20, 14:29
LSA (lubricant, semi-fluid, automatic weapons), it was still used by us for the M-2 in Iraq in 2006-7. We had to go to the Marines to get more as we never had enough. The dirt stuck to it like there was no tomorrow but it would allow Ma duece to run and run well. We were told not to use it on the 240-B but did anyway.
Funny, when I was doing customs over in Kuwait checking out OIF/OEF troops in 04-05, there was a whole 20' connex full of the 1 gallon LSA cans they were shipping back to the States.
Apparently, it's also approved for use on the M61 Vulcan.
The video isn’t a spoof.
I have no intention of running motor oil in anything, but I do use grease on some sliding components. According to the internet, the key is to use grease that liquifies somewhat under heat, so it won’t gum things up.
Also, the video and concoction seems to have the same idea as LSA described above (though I have used neither).
Lubriplate SFL-0 is also a “semi fluid lube”. I remember LSA being a little wetter, though. No idea how the number grading thing goes for this type of lube.
I've often wondered whether chainsaw bar and chain oil might work okay? It has the added tack to it to keep it from slinging off the chain. Kind of a cross between grease and oil.
More of a curiosity than a realistic exercise.Used to use this on our dirt bike chains. Not applied directly as it was too think to get into the links...
We would remove the chain, coil it up and place it in an electric frying pan. This was then filled up enough to cover the chain. We'd let it soak for a while then take the chain and let it hang up over and drip the excess back into the pan as it cooled.
Seemed to work pretty good. Better than the canned chain sprays that would mostly stay on the outside of the chain and collect dirt and get all over your sprockets and such.
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Gear oil is designed for it's anti shear capabilities like when being compressed between two sets of gears and still sticking to the metal. I captured some from a couple of rearends and a tractor transmission. In the winter I mix it 50/50 with RemOil to lighten it up.
Brownnells Action Lube moly grease and Machine Gunners Lube from Sprinco. Slip 2000 is good too.
Brownnells Action Lube moly grease and Machine Gunners Lube from Sprinco. Slip 2000 is good too.
Score 2 for Spinco MGL.
Anybody use Bore Tech Friction Guard?
A 16 page lube thread. Never change, internet. Never change.:rolleyes:
A 16 page lube thread. Never change, internet. Never change.:rolleyes:
Well we could talk about COVID or the [fraudulent] election if you'd rather! :rolleyes:
I've got to admit this one showed me the slathering of grease onto a BCG I'd never seen before!
Well we could talk about COVID or the [fraudulent] election if you'd rather! :rolleyes:
I've got to admit this one showed me the slathering of grease onto a BCG I'd never seen before!
You have never seen it before because that garbage was way past excessive and then some... :)
heavygunner8
12-05-20, 19:26
I use TW25B Gun grease lube
TheGhostRider
12-06-20, 09:49
I've been using Fluid Film on my roller locks. Goes on wet, soaks into the nooks and crannies. Once the carrier evaps you have a super slippery clingy lube that holds up great under heat and pressure. Makes knocking dirt/carbon out a snap. Non-Toxic, does stink a little when fresh. After running it on the roller locks with such success I decided to try it on other "tools" and thus-far have been more than impressed. I'm hard to impress, I'm generally a run whatever is available "anything is better than nothing" type from camel snot to cat oil.
I don't think it matters as long as you get some juice on it occasionally. I've used motor oil, Frog lube, and recently bought some Lucas oil. All have worked fine and nothing has caused me issues.
I just cleaned some guns and the amount of black Tar on my BCG's of my LMT MWS guns was insane. I should have taken pictures and yet these guns just ran fine. Sometimes these weapons surprise us. I'm the worst about lubing my guns.
PB
SonOfAGunn
12-06-20, 17:23
I've tried most of that stuff, and some work better that others but they all work. Some stick around a little longer I guess. Some make the gun feel smoother than others after cleaning and lubing but that isn't really what makes them better, unless that's what you're going for. I've been using Lucas EXTREME Duty oil, the bluish green stuff, not the red. It's that color since it's EXTREME I guess. I've been using it for a couple years. I think I read somewhere that it's basically 2 stroke oil. I shoot suppressed sometimes and my bolt stays pretty slick for a range trip or two then it starts looking a little dry. At that point if I were to touch the BCG I find it to be kind of greasy feeling so I just keep running it. If the action starts sounding a little gritty or dry, I just add a couple drops and magically it sounds smooth again. I'm like the guy that posted before me, I probably don't clean or lube as often as I should but my guns are boring. They just keep running whether they're wet or dirty/greasy, pretty dry...whatever.
Long story short, Lucas EXTREME duty oil is the best lube ever created for the AR15 (and Stihl Chainsaws), and the proof is what it's called since the name says it all.
Remember, it's the bluish green stuff, not the red one. The red one is for lubing guns used to kill animals, specifically deer since a buck is pictured on the label of the red lube ("Lucas Gun Oil"). I've read that the red stuff is pretty good and takes the lube level to 10. We're into AR's and if you're into those type guns you need something with a little extra, something that takes it to an 11, and now you know which one that is.
For the record, I don't work for Lucas Oil, but I do own a Stihl Chainsaw. I don't use Lucas Oil 2 stroke oil in it, I use Stihl 2 stroke oil since the shop extends my warranties for my Stihl stuff if I buy bottles of the Stihl oil when I purchase a new power unit. Once I burn through that I may use something different.
Torquetard
12-06-20, 19:26
I start with a bunch of bottles of Slip EWL 30, Gojuice, and Mro7 LPX. I take the bottles of Mpro7 and Slip30 and dump them into the pot until it is 1/2 full. I have the stove set to about 8 or 9 and when I "sense" it's warm enough, I pour just 1/10th of the GoJuice bottle into the pot and stir. Once I get a nice, cool electric blue mixture I'll spray a layer of some Ballistol on top and put the lid on and let it simmer for a few minutes. Then I'll take a chemistry hose and wedge it under the lid, collecting the condensation in a cup until I'm left with a few teaspoons of this indigo-amber hued oil that is very thin but stays put. It is a low yield result, and smells like a Crayola factory burned down, but I am getting about 5k rounds of WPA suppressed until the action starts to feel a little rough, just by using some of the leftover grease from the pot in the cam pin slot and rails plus a few drops of the oil in the exhaust ports on the BCG. If I am in a pinch I will just take the BCG out and spray it with Remoil.
^^ Holy crap! Not sure if serious, but if so, holy crap that's dedication!
No love or mention for Weapon Shield? I like their line of products so far.
This ^^^
Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil, good stuff, but again there are a lot of good ones as you have found out.
morbidbattlecry
12-06-20, 20:34
I still use Fireclean. What's the deal with Frog Lube? A while back i heard there was a big stink about it but i never found what the issue was.
Mrgunsngear
12-06-20, 20:47
I still use Fireclean. What's the deal with Frog Lube? A while back i heard there was a big stink about it but i never found what the issue was.
I had it gum up after letting an AR and 1911 sit for a year or so and it locked both guns up FWIW.
countryboy27012
12-06-20, 20:56
I've been using shooter lube the past year or so. This stuff is fantastic! Their solvent is jam up to (not sponsored by them, just great products).
Oil is good. No oil is bad.
I start with a bunch of bottles of Slip EWL 30, Gojuice, and Mro7 LPX. I take the bottles of Mpro7 and Slip30 and dump them into the pot until it is 1/2 full. I have the stove set to about 8 or 9 and when I "sense" it's warm enough, I pour just 1/10th of the GoJuice bottle into the pot and stir. Once I get a nice, cool electric blue mixture I'll spray a layer of some Ballistol on top and put the lid on and let it simmer for a few minutes. Then I'll take a chemistry hose and wedge it under the lid, collecting the condensation in a cup until I'm left with a few teaspoons of this indigo-amber hued oil that is very thin but stays put. It is a low yield result, and smells like a Crayola factory burned down, but I am getting about 5k rounds of WPA suppressed until the action starts to feel a little rough, just by using some of the leftover grease from the pot in the cam pin slot and rails plus a few drops of the oil in the exhaust ports on the BCG. If I am in a pinch I will just take the BCG out and spray it with Remoil.
You mean you don't do a quadruple distillation? Amateurs. Ya'll amateurs.
Another good grease that should be on that list is Weapon Shield Lithium Grease. It's one of the best. And at one time or another, I've tried them all.
https://www.amazon.com/Weapon-Shield-Grease-oz-Tub/product-reviews/B00B52IPWW
I've used a ton of different products, and Slip2000 used to be my favorite, but i now prefer Fireclean over everything else i've tried. I know, i know, - i've read all the "it's only vegetable oil" threads - but, at the end of the day, i feel like it lubricates better and results in less carbon build up better than everything else i've used. That's just my personal experience, but I prefer Fireclean.
Oil is good. No oil is bad.
Dude, I think you're on to something.
Bio lube like FrogLube, Otis Bio Lube, FireClean etc.
Why? From my Field Use:
1. It doesn’t cook off easily. Most withstand 700F+.
2. You don’t need a two part solution solvent. It lifts carbon and keeps it in suspension. You may eventually need a bore solvent for copper but I have never needed it for my carry pistols and my ARs. It works well enough without a dedicated solvent. I have a precision rifle that I use Kroil but that’s the only exception.
3. Bio Lube keeps carbon in a suspension so you can shoot a gun to the point where conventional oil will evaporate and seize up. You wipe it off versus scrape it off, which leads to much easier cleanup.
4. Skin safe. Kid safe. Pet safe. Does not emit toxic compounds VOCs.
I tested standard FrogLube to -20 twice in a pistol and AR. It worked well.
Downside: you have to degrease all components prior to using bio lube otherwise it will not be 100% effective. It is also not intended to be used for long term storage and will gum. Comes in different formats you have to know what your gun needs. It’s relatively expensive compared to conventional oils.
Bio lube like FrogLube, Otis Bio Lube, FireClean etc.
Why? From my Field Use:
1. It doesn’t cook off easily. Most withstand 700F+.
2. You don’t need a two part solution solvent. It lifts carbon and keeps it in suspension. You may eventually need a bore solvent for copper but I have never needed it for my carry pistols and my ARs. It works well enough without a dedicated solvent. I have a precision rifle that I use Kroil but that’s the only exception.
3. Bio Lube keeps carbon in a suspension so you can shoot a gun to the point where conventional oil will evaporate and seize up. You wipe it off versus scrape it off, which leads to much easier cleanup.
4. Skin safe. Kid safe. Pet safe. Does not emit toxic compounds VOCs.
I tested standard FrogLube to -20 twice in a pistol and AR. It worked well.
Downside: you have to degrease all components prior to using bio lube otherwise it will not be 100% effective. It is also not intended to be used for long term storage and will gum. Comes in different formats you have to know what your gun needs. It’s relatively expensive compared to conventional oils.
Ballistol basically has all those properties and won't seize up like the cooking oil lubes do. I think froglube et al is great for guns that are strictly for range use, but carry and nightstand guns need a real lubricant.
These is a reason biodegradable lubes have a "use by", or, "best if used by" date on them. They start breaking down and decomposing the day they are manufactured.
Carbon solvents are not needed, in my opinion.
Ballistol basically has all those properties and won't seize up like the cooking oil lubes do. I think froglube et al is great for guns that are strictly for range use, but carry and nightstand guns need a real lubricant.
Funny, my guns do not sit on the nightstand, they get fielded daily, carried daily, sweat, lint, dirt, blood, shit, corona, you name it. I get temps that range from 100F down to -30F seasonally. To this day I have not had FrogLube seize anything up: "cooking oil lubes" is up for healthy debate considering they are not simply oils as processed for cooking: they have additives and go through chemical processes that alter their molecular structure. This goes back to the false claims by an internet "academic" (I know him) who started the cooking oil myth because he had it spectrum analyzed. The spectrum analysis was not scientifically high resolution in it's results to differentiate FireClean from Canola oil and other oils for that matter. All of the other conjecture is purely anecdotal. Let's face it people are resistant to embracing new technology and rightfully so. However, my FrogLube and Otis Bio CLP does dry up and lead to stoppages, and it's sitting next my my jewels all day and I don't worry about it. I have used several "high end" lubes that have left me high and dry scrubbing carbon off my guns. Some of it's MSDS properties have multiple carcinogenic chemical present, and some of it smells downright Kroil like. I treat my guns like I treat my women: I keep them close, clean, and ride them hard and leave them wet..
Biodegradable lubricants, (or what are commonly known as, "food grade" lubricants), are nothing new. And they don't require more calculations than a Shuttle launch to analyze. There are what they are..... Biodegradable. Which in a nutshell means they're intentionally made from plant esters of one form or another, so they can safely be taken internally. And will break down, and decompose in a short amount of time. Frog Lube is basically nothing more than mint scented, rebranded and repackaged roller coaster track lubricant. One of it's "features" is that it is designed to break down rather quickly, so as not to contaminate the ground under roller coaster tracks in amusement parks. Which is why if you store your firearm after applying it, you will be greeted to a gooey, gummed up and locked weapon after just a few months.
It's the same reason railroads use biodegradable, plant ester based greases for wheel flange lubricant. They don't want environmentalists screaming at them, and / or suing them for contaminating the right of way with petroleum based greases. Automated food processing equipment also uses these type of greases and lubricants for much the same reason. There is absolutely zero reason or advantage for firearms to be lubricated with this crap, because they do not require it. Petroleum based oils and lubricants are far better suited for this task. They last longer, and will not gum up a weapon. And unless you can't live without your AR-15 smelling like a breath mint, you are accomplishing nothing by using them. Simply because there have been far better products developed for this purpose. Otherwise car dealers would still be packing wheel bearings with Ox tallow. Much like the settlers packed the axle hubs on their covered wagons.
Biodegradable lubricants, (or what are commonly known as, "food grade" lubricants), are nothing new. And they don't require more calculations than a Shuttle launch to analyze. There are what they are..... Biodegradable. Which in a nutshell means they're intentionally made from plant esters of one form or another, so they can safely be taken internally. And will break down, and decompose in a short amount of time. Frog Lube is basically nothing more than mint scented, rebranded and repackaged roller coaster track lubricant. One of it's "features" is that it is designed to break down rather quickly, so as not to contaminate the ground under roller coaster tracks in amusement parks. Which is why if you store your firearm after applying it, you will be greeted to a gooey, gummed up and locked weapon after just a few months.
It's the same reason railroads use biodegradable, plant ester based greases for wheel flange lubricant. They don't want environmentalists screaming at them, and / or suing them for contaminating the right of way with petroleum based greases. Automated food processing equipment also uses these type of greases and lubricants for much the same reason. There is absolutely zero reason or advantage for firearms to be lubricated with this crap, because they do not require it. Petroleum based oils and lubricants are far better suited for this task. They last longer, and will not gum up a weapon. And unless you can't live without your AR-15 smelling like a breath mint, you are accomplishing nothing by using them. Simply because there have been far better products developed for this purpose. Otherwise car dealers would still be packing wheel bearings with Ox tallow.
Now this is very interesting, thank you for answering the question of why my Frog Lube gets pasty after a while and why I stopped using it. I still use it as a rust preventative on the exterior surfaces.
Now this is very interesting, thank you for answering the question of why my Frog Lube gets pasty after a while and why I stopped using it. I still use it as a rust preventative on the exterior surfaces.
If you degrease parts and heat the FrogLube and apply thin it will not get pasty. Many bio lubes like FireClean and Otis are already a thin liquid and do not need to be heated, you slather on and wipe excess off. Of course you can choose to be conservative and conserve it by applying less liberally. Waxy-ness just means you applied it excessively. I use regular FrogLube in very cold temps often and do not have problems: a little goes a long way. Conventional oil is trash in my opinion: it cooks off and evaporates just like anything. And conventional oil breaks down just like anything else, most bearing grease has a two year lifespan and at best ten years for Krazy Grease marine grade: and you'll never get that long of use out of it. I have a shower rod that would not stop rusting: I applied FrogLube paste heated into a liquid with a rag and it has not rusted in three years since. It weeped oxidation for a few months. The significant issue I have with conventional oil is that it doesn't do well for carbon build up and it does not lift carbon, it makes it harder to get clean after you shoot.
It's interesting to me, Froglube takes a beating on this site and yet it's never failed me and I am for shit about lubing my guns. I just cleaned two MWS guns that had so much heavy tar-like substance on my BCG's ( A mixture of gun powder-Frog lube...) baked on with a can.
I would not have dreamed the gun would run like this but did for weeks on end. I wonder if the first round fired (friction) causes the Frog lube to return to some level of viscosity and functions. I've also wondered if our low humidity helps Frog lube as well.
Because we have run it on 1911's, AR's and bolt guns with great success. I'm messing around with Lucas right now and see if I get the same tar-like deal on my MWS BCG's.
PB
It's interesting to me, Froglube takes a beating on this site and yet it's never failed me and I am for shit about lubing my guns. I just cleaned two MWS guns that had so much heavy tar-like substance on my BCG's ( A mixture of gun powder-Frog lube...) baked on with a can.
I would not have dreamed the gun would run like this but did for weeks on end. I wonder if the first round fired (friction) causes the Frog lube to return to some level of viscosity and functions. I've also wondered if our low humidity helps Frog lube as well.
Because we have run it on 1911's, AR's and bolt guns with great success. I'm messing around with Lucas right now and see if I get the same tar-like deal on my MWS BCG's.
PB
I agree. Otis sent me some bio CLP to test and compare and I am very happy with it. It's thinner than FrogLube. From my experience FrogLube is that it lasts a bit longer than Otis bio CLP before you need to re-apply. I have been testing Otis for a while now on my carry pistols and a AR and it has been great, but I am not convinced it is better or worse than FrogLube. They both work, and given I have to periodically clean my carry pistols and carbines the proverbial "breakdown" issue is moot. FireClean will be next to test when I get a chance to come by some. I was going to do some scientific analysis but I may never have the time to do it because they both work extremely well, and I have nothing to gain from the effort.
It's interesting to me, Froglube takes a beating on this site and yet it's never failed me and I am for shit about lubing my guns. I just cleaned two MWS guns that had so much heavy tar-like substance on my BCG's ( A mixture of gun powder-Frog lube...) baked on with a can.
I would not have dreamed the gun would run like this but did for weeks on end. I wonder if the first round fired (friction) causes the Frog lube to return to some level of viscosity and functions. I've also wondered if our low humidity helps Frog lube as well.
Because we have run it on 1911's, AR's and bolt guns with great success. I'm messing around with Lucas right now and see if I get the same tar-like deal on my MWS BCG's.
PB
Frog Lube glued up my 1911 when I ran it uncleaned over 6+ months which is why I discontinued using it. Maybe I over did it? My Colt 1911 is my experimental platform so I might do it again.
The 1911 was designed to run on a thin film of oil like most earlier firearms. It requires thin oil in the FCG (sear,trigger, hammer etc.) I use a 1911A1 and when it was new it was extremely tight after 15k rounds it runs like a clock. I use FrogLube paste on my 1911A1. Degrease all parts, yeah detail strip it if you are able otherwise have a friend or someone qualified to do it for you. I have been working on my own 1911's for some time: I have done some customization and learned over the years how to build a good one. Melt the FrogLube paste or use FrogLube Extreme or CLP liquid, put it on a link free swab and heat the parts up with a heat gun just mildly 200F approx and put a think coat on the parts. Apply a bit more heat and let parts cool. Wipe off excess and re-assemble. The thumb safety plunger and spring I use either Otis CLP which is liquid or FrogLube Extreme which is also liquid and just use a drop in those oil points. You can get aggressive on the rails and bolt face with liquid and I have slathered paste on the rails and not had a problem however, if you have a really tight 1911 new or bullseye model you need to use all liquid or it will create enough hydraulic friction to cause problems. My friend has a hardballer and it's so tight, you have to apply all lubes very thin. Same for older German pistols. Newer generation guns you can lube them very wet including AR's. IF you live in Alaska or similar climates, use FrogLube Extreme and use the same degrease, heat on initial application. After that just wipe off crud, and re-apply a thin coating of bio lube: it saves a lot of scrubbing and soaking parts. The thing I believe most conventional oil users do not realize is that their guns have a lot of carbon, powder, and fouling and you need aggressive solvents to remove it because oil will not do it typically. I used non and synthetic CLP for many years: it is a great oil but it's an all purpose solution. Bio lubes do not clean the gun they just prevent stuff from carbonizing on them. Now when I clean my guns I can wipe them clean, swab the small areas and or soak the parts in degreaser and wipe and dry. It's much easier for me. My old Colt carbine weeped carbon, powder, and fouling for weeks after I applied FrogLube for the first time. I was using CLP and a Solvent and it was not touching the stuff that came out of the gun. When I get a new gun, I detail strip it, and drop parts into a degreaser wash tub with very hot water and flush and dry parts, and apply a thin wet coat of bio lube. I like the Otis bio CLP because it's so thin at room temperature: it's easier than having to heat it up like FrogLube: but like I said before FrogLube seems to last longer. I find myself having to re-apply Otis bio CLP more frequently on my carry guns. They reach a point where they appear dry and they still have lube that will heat up and do it's job, but I like to keep metal on metal wet. I just put a coating of Otis bio CLP on my truck gun because it was getting dry and dingy now it's wet again.
Any of you guys that are into froglube and fireclean ever try cooking oils like peanut oil? I’ve been curious as to if it’ll get nasty quickly if I were to use it in a pinch.
Grand58742
12-08-20, 12:03
Funny, my guns do not sit on the nightstand, they get fielded daily, carried daily, sweat, lint, dirt, blood, shit, corona, you name it.
Please don't give the gun grabbers any more excuses...
Any of you guys that are into froglube and fireclean ever try cooking oils like peanut oil? I’ve been curious as to if it’ll get nasty quickly if I were to use it in a pinch.
No. Most natural plant based oils without additives and molecular re-structuring will polymerize and result in a sticky mess. Animal fat works but goes rancid like most untreated plant oils.
Biodegradable lubricants, (or what are commonly known as, "food grade" lubricants), are nothing new. And they don't require more calculations than a Shuttle launch to analyze. There are what they are..... Biodegradable. Which in a nutshell means they're intentionally made from plant esters of one form or another, so they can safely be taken internally. And will break down, and decompose in a short amount of time. Frog Lube is basically nothing more than mint scented, rebranded and repackaged roller coaster track lubricant. One of it's "features" is that it is designed to break down rather quickly, so as not to contaminate the ground under roller coaster tracks in amusement parks. Which is why if you store your firearm after applying it, you will be greeted to a gooey, gummed up and locked weapon after just a few months.
It's the same reason railroads use biodegradable, plant ester based greases for wheel flange lubricant. They don't want environmentalists screaming at them, and / or suing them for contaminating the right of way with petroleum based greases. Automated food processing equipment also uses these type of greases and lubricants for much the same reason. There is absolutely zero reason or advantage for firearms to be lubricated with this crap, because they do not require it. Petroleum based oils and lubricants are far better suited for this task. They last longer, and will not gum up a weapon. And unless you can't live without your AR-15 smelling like a breath mint, you are accomplishing nothing by using them. Simply because there have been far better products developed for this purpose. Otherwise car dealers would still be packing wheel bearings with Ox tallow. Much like the settlers packed the axle hubs on their covered wagons.
I'll have to watch the Lubriplate non-toxic I've been using recently. I have a gun or 2 lubed with it I don't shoot much.
Score 2 for Spinco MGL.
Anybody use Bore Tech Friction Guard?
I have used MGL and it did not work well for me. It may be possible I did not apply properly. I still have a few mini bottles floating around: it reminds me of liquid graphite suspension. I have been a long time Sprinco fan. I ended up with a carbon caked bolt face and really dry BCG. I had high expectations.
Please don't give the gun grabbers any more excuses...
lol they certainly have made their minds up: to take away all guns! They are coming for our guns in 2021 they say..
I tried canola oil a few years ago, while it’ll do in a pinch, I wouldn’t recommend it as a replacement.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176065-My-2000-round-Fireclean-vs-Canola-Oil-test
As my experience showed, the canola oil broke down and became rancid and also became waxy, just as Core781 described.
Any of you guys that are into froglube and fireclean ever try cooking oils like peanut oil? I’ve been curious as to if it’ll get nasty quickly if I were to use it in a pinch.
No. Most natural plant based oils without additives and molecular re-structuring will polymerize and result in a sticky mess. Animal fat works but goes rancid like most untreated plant oils.
Frog Lube glued up my 1911 when I ran it uncleaned over 6+ months which is why I discontinued using it. Maybe I over did it? My Colt 1911 is my experimental platform so I might do it again.
Had the same issue, pretty sure looking back it was probably me over applying.
No. Most natural plant based oils without additives and molecular re-structuring will polymerize and result in a sticky mess. Animal fat works but goes rancid like most untreated plant oils.
I tried canola oil a few years ago, while it’ll do in a pinch, I wouldn’t recommend it as a replacement.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176065-My-2000-round-Fireclean-vs-Canola-Oil-test
As my experience showed, the canola oil broke down and became rancid and also became waxy, just as Core781 described.
Cool, thanks guys.
I'll have to watch the Lubriplate non-toxic I've been using recently. I have a gun or 2 lubed with it I don't shoot much.
I don’t think Lubriplate is biodegradable/plant based.
tanksoldier
12-08-20, 16:22
I'm probably outing myself a bit here, but is anything significantly/proven better than CLP?
90% I use Hoppes 9 to clean, CLP to lube... and back in the day, in sandy parts of the world, used CLP for both just fine.
I've gotten other stuff as gifts or picked up whatever was available here and there and never noticed anything being noticeably better....
As you know, if the DoD found something that was better performing than current CLP, for the same price, or cheaper than current CLP (such as motor oil, maybe) with equal performance, they’d adopt it.
I'm probably outing myself a bit here, but is anything significantly/proven better than CLP?
90% I use Hoppes 9 to clean, CLP to lube... and back in the day, in sandy parts of the world, used CLP for both just fine.
I've gotten other stuff as gifts or picked up whatever was available here and there and never noticed anything being noticeably better....
I'm probably outing myself a bit here, but is anything significantly/proven better than CLP?
90% I use Hoppes 9 to clean, CLP to lube... and back in the day, in sandy parts of the world, used CLP for both just fine.
I've gotten other stuff as gifts or picked up whatever was available here and there and never noticed anything being noticeably better....
I worked in “No Mans Land” and Al Faw Iraq 🇮🇶 and up to Al Basra. I used CLP: I believe it was the synthetic type but I could be wrong. Our armorers did all the maintenance, I seldom did anything other than shoot them and bitch to how loose the upper were to the lowers.. I was often working with spec ops and using their loaners from their armory, so I had some decent stuff. Our mobile armory would often get hung up pans we shed to borrow stuff from our sibling divisions. Generally our stuff was bone dry, the Teams stuff was usually coated in the dry lube stuff. That fine dust in the south would literally kill you if you didn’t wrap several layers of smagh around your face. We were issued the neck wraps also which I would wear under a smagh or ghutra. I used Coastal Warfare’s M16 one time and it was so bad I qualified below Expert for the first time, but I traded for a better M16 and shot high Expert: I didn’t want to lose my E. But everything worked well, but I heard a number of armorers were using the newer dry lube: I honestly have no idea what that was they were talking about? Probably some NSN stuff they got from a manufacturer through the supply chain. Doubtful it was a GCC purchase. We used special equipment and used the GCC a lot for special orders but when you’re overseas you are limited to the junk the indigenous people have. I would probably go with a dry lube or do a dry coat of FrogLube if I had a choice. I have heard stories from recent operators discussing newer bio lube that run really well. Cant recall the type. While other branches use some really toxic stuff or at least did for a while.
tanksoldier
12-08-20, 20:37
As you know, if the DoD found something that was better performing than current CLP, for the same price, or cheaper than current CLP (such as motor oil, maybe) with equal performance, they’d adopt it.
Well, that's kinda my point... I understand some designs prefer a grease, but other than that....
As much as people like to think their gun lube is the greatest thing since free porn, it probably doesn't make as much difference as we like to think it does. As long as you're not running things dry, you'll be fine.With that said, I use Weaponshield.
Funny, my guns do not sit on the nightstand, they get fielded daily, carried daily, sweat, lint, dirt, blood, shit, corona, you name it. I get temps that range from 100F down to -30F seasonally. To this day I have not had FrogLube seize anything up: "cooking oil lubes" is up for healthy debate considering they are not simply oils as processed for cooking: they have additives and go through chemical processes that alter their molecular structure. This goes back to the false claims by an internet "academic" (I know him) who started the cooking oil myth because he had it spectrum analyzed. The spectrum analysis was not scientifically high resolution in it's results to differentiate FireClean from Canola oil and other oils for that matter. All of the other conjecture is purely anecdotal. Let's face it people are resistant to embracing new technology and rightfully so. However, my FrogLube and Otis Bio CLP does dry up and lead to stoppages, and it's sitting next my my jewels all day and I don't worry about it. I have used several "high end" lubes that have left me high and dry scrubbing carbon off my guns. Some of it's MSDS properties have multiple carcinogenic chemical present, and some of it smells downright Kroil like. I treat my guns like I treat my women: I keep them close, clean, and ride them hard and leave them wet..
Ballistol smells awesome! Just sayin.
Ballistol smells awesome! Just sayin.
I prefer Kroil.. :laugh:
Walker_Texasranger
12-09-20, 20:38
I’ve nerded out on oil before because it’s fun but really I don’t pay much attention to it anymore. I have various things around and literally grab whatever I see first.
Only thing is, I don’t like grease because even though it sticks well, it seems to hold all the crap too and the gun gets really dirty. So I like heavier oil usually. Just add more when it gets dry and the guns don’t need cleaned all that much.
Me too. I wonder if the cherry balmz and the FCD snake oil is the same thing. I see cherry balmz makes it for fcd and the descriptions seem to be the same. Cherry balmz has a buy 2 get 3 special right now so i think I am going to give it a try
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They have one called tactical honey 🍯 or something like that: sounds like something I could get behind.. 😂🤣
Saliva works just fine for me.
If that isn't available I just use CLP.
Since 2010 I’ve used Slip and always been pleased with it. I also have CLP on hand for cleaning. I guess I drank the Pat Rogers (RIP) kool aide.
I use valvoline synthetic grey grease for the buffer spring and trigger/fcg. Lubriplate 105 on the bcg and most upper internals.
I use valvoline synthetic grey grease for the buffer spring and trigger/fcg. Lubriplate 105 on the bcg and most upper internals.
Aeroshell works good on the FCG. I gob it on a few spots upon assembly and forget about it.
Aeroshell works good on the FCG. I gob it on a few spots upon assembly and forget about it.
It’s does, but it’s a pretty dated formulation these days. It’s not really used anymore in the aviation applications of its original intent, better greases are available now. The only real virtue Aeroshell has is being graphite-free. Graphite can make some greases electrically conductive enough to induce galvanic corrosion in some instances.
That’s largely a non issue though. The Molykote that Monty at Centurion recommends with his barrel nuts is almost certainly superior in every way to the old mil spec aeroshell.
It’s does, but it’s a pretty dated formulation these days. It’s not really used anymore in the aviation applications of its original intent, better greases are available now. The only real virtue Aeroshell has is being graphite-free. Graphite can make some greases electrically conductive enough to induce galvanic corrosion in some instances.
That’s largely a non issue though. The Molykote that Monty at Centurion recommends with his barrel nuts is almost certainly superior in every way to the old mil spec aeroshell.
I actually use Mobile #28 instead of Aeroshell 6. Theres no way in hell I would use anything with moly or graphite due to the cold temperatures we get here. I tried moly years ago and will never use it again. I tried T6 also and it cooked on my BCGs.
Theres no way in hell I would use anything with moly or graphite due to the cold temperatures we get here. I tried moly years ago and will never use it again.
What happens?
davidjinks
12-21-20, 19:14
I use what the military uses and is issued. I’ve never had a problem with that methodology and it’s never let me down.
Currently I use G96 for every weapon I own.
What happens?
I ruined two of my favorite pair of pants with moly: it leaves a film that takes an act of faith to remove and makes one hell of a mess. I made a concerted effort to get rid of all I had: it even stays on my skin for days unless I scrub it off with an abrasive. The bio lubes dissolve all the stuff I normally have to scrape or scrub off, so I see it as a win win. I have tried Krazy Grease (it's marine grade and slick as hell) and it works well, but it has a toxic smell and the MSDS says no skin contact...
I use what the military uses and is issued. I’ve never had a problem with that methodology and it’s never let me down.
Currently I use G96 for every weapon I own.
Have you tried their bio CLP?
I use what the military uses and is issued. I’ve never had a problem with that methodology and it’s never let me down.
Currently I use G96 for every weapon I own.
I searched for the stringent milspec the synthetic g96 meets and found RadcoLube on Amazon also meets the spec. So far it’s the only CLP that actually seems to do all three and is a perfect squirt-and-go kind of AR lube. I keep some in the MIAD grip.
It cleans surprisingly well, lubes as good as anything I have tried, it’s only $20 for a pint/$80 for a gallon. I’d recommend it if you like the G96 synthetic as a lower cost suitable substitute.
bulldozer3
12-21-20, 21:10
I searched for the stringent milspec the synthetic g96 meets and found RadcoLube on Amazon also meets the spec. So far it’s the only CLP that actually seems to do all three and is a perfect squirt-and-go kind of AR lube. I keep some in the MIAD grip.
It cleans surprisingly well, lubes as good as anything I have tried, it’s only $20 for a pint/$80 for a gallon. I’d recommend it if you like the G96 synthetic as a lower cost suitable substitute.Does it have that same cinnamon smell as g96?
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Does it have that same cinnamon smell as g96?
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No, but I’m sure you can add the smell somehow for a lot less than the cost difference.
davidjinks
12-22-20, 07:03
No. Below is what I use and have been using for a very long time. There is also no cinnamon smell, so I must’ve gotten ripped off with this batch!
http://i.imgur.com/I8ho37b.jpg (https://imgur.com/I8ho37b)
Having worked in an industry where I have personally tested military weapons to failure, you all are wasting your time and money on the latest and greatest lubrication.
Understand that I have personally tried a whole bunch of wonder lubes out there. But again, they’ve all been a waste of money.
My PERSONAL recommendation is G96 for anything and everything, or if you want a grease based product, mil-comm TW25 or MC3000.
Have you tried their bio CLP?
ARDEC approval letter for RADCOLUBE:
64622
Radco is $80/gal vs $175(?)/gal for G96. I'm absolutely sure G96 is fantastic stuff. Just speaking for myself, though, I'm not seeing how both lubes that meet MIL-PRF-63460F can have a disparity in performance such that G96 is worth twice the price. I'll never run my guns as hard as many of you do, so maybe you'll see a performance difference. I'm taking on faith a bit that the strident requirements of the new spec will give a quality lube that is "good enough" for my less challenging uses.
RADCO has the same NSN and NATO code as the G96. If Big Army and Nato consider them to be essentially equal, that's good enough for me with my far more limited testing resources.
Radco only claims temperature range of -60F to 160F. I suspect that's ambient conditions because any oil that fell apart at 160F would never pass the M249 live fire test requirement the way Radco did. See the letter for that test result. I will never need my rifle in -60 temps. I'll be dead and unable to function before that happens (are we certain primers even work at -60F?).
I'm no scientist, just an engineer. And without ability to do any kind of real testing on my own, I'll bank the 50% cost savings and get on with life. Anecdotally, it works great. That's an anecdote, nothing more.
*I HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH ANY LUBE MAKER OR ANYONE IN FIREARMS INDUSTRY*
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