View Full Version : Question on sniper team equipment
Way out of my lane, but are tripods fairly common equipment for sniper teams worldwide?
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/11/06/potd-international-specialty-training-center-high-angle-sniper-course-ii/
I got a few friends that are Army snipers or retired and are sniper instructors. They say that they shoot off of tripods more than prone now.
Its also a big thing in LE sniping.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-20, 16:30
I was so confused when all the PRS equipment started crossing over with the photography equipment. Lots of rails now have ARCA rails built into them, and also rail adaptors for camera QD mounts.
Way out of my lane, but are tripods fairly common equipment for sniper teams worldwide?
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/11/06/potd-international-specialty-training-center-high-angle-sniper-course-ii/
Not sure about worldwide but the US definitely uses them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can do it Carlos Hathcock style.
64245
Way out of my lane, but are tripods fairly common equipment for sniper teams worldwide?
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/11/06/potd-international-specialty-training-center-high-angle-sniper-course-ii/
Yup. Tripods with brackets like the Hog Saddle are highly useful. Prone is a staple shooting position on the range and in training, but much less available in the real world.
GTG gear: https://www.hogsaddle.com/
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-20, 18:26
Reminds me that I made a Tripod and a hogs saddle for my Elf On The Shelf and one of those GOAT guns. Made them on my 3D printer, I need to get that back up with some improvements.
You can do it Carlos Hathcock style.
64245
Which would be fine if that was Hathcock...
Tripods have become increasingly popular in long range precision shooting, both in civilian and LE/Mil circles, for good reason. Things like the Hog Saddle, and very sturdy lightweight tripods, allow you to get prone-like stability at a variety of heights. You can also use the legs of the tripod as rear support when shooting off of tall barricades etc.
I used to use very tall bipod legs when mule deer hunting, as prone shots in Utah mountains are almost nonexistent, but now i hunt with a Tripod all the time. The nice tripods have a lot of adjustability and can even be shot prone. I like the Really Right Stuff carbon fiber tripods and ball mounts, but there are less expensive options that work well.
Makes sense if you have time and opportunity to set up like that.
Last I checked most field snipers still used the trusty back pack, but it's been a few years since I last checked. Obviously greater stability means better performance.
Here's a link to an instagram video by Phil Velayo, demonstrating setting up a tripod to shoot in high kneeling (I don't think there's a way to embed instagram posts on this forum). The whole video is about 2 minutes, so it's a quick watch:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFDm7rpJaPp/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
It takes him about 40 seconds to set up the tripod and take a shot. From a position suitable for shooting through a window, loophole in a wall, over a low wall or berm, etc.
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 10:07
I was so confused when all the PRS equipment started crossing over with the photography equipment. Lots of rails now have ARCA rails built into them, and also rail adaptors for camera QD mounts.
It's been happening for a long time. A few finally embraced it, and (as we all know) gun guys ate it UP.
LE has been way behind the curve in sniping doctrine poaching off of 80's and 90's dated military doctrine up until the 2010's in most places. Given the slow development of gear/tactics in this circle, Centermass marketed a Manfroto TV camera tripod with big-ass saddle/clamp contraption on it back in the late 2000's. This was around the time we saw some pretty dialed in mil guys using smaller Manfrotto's over at Camp Atterbury that were doing prone-level work off of tripods. So the LE sniper community was getting the hint...10ish years ago.
Manfrotto, Leofoto, RRS, SLIK (Shadowtech/hog tripod) all are rooted in camera kit first.
Cut to the early 2010's and the FBI was teaching it in Basic Sniper courses. While PRS isn't responsible for the use, it helped the explosion that gave us better and more kit and having the industry standardize (mostly) on the RRS/Arca rail. Remember PRS was in its infancy in 2012 and didn't become a household name for a few years after.
It's been standard equipment for quite a while now.
Getchu some of this!
https://i.imgur.com/Ah9NOPz.jpg
64252
Like i mentioned, I've become a big fan of using a tripod. Here is a quick pic of my tripod setup, and I have a couple Mlok mounts that stay on a few of my guns, that allow me to quick attach the gun direct to the tripod, so i don't have to use a clamp mount.
I also have a Hog Saddle for the guns that don't have a permanent rail mount, and Arca Swiss rail on my PRS gun. This particular tripod will also allow the legs to go almost straight out, so i can shoot the gun prone in the tripod without a bipod up front. Lot's of flexibility on shooting height from prone to full standing.
I absolutely hate shooting of a tripod. Probably something we need to get back to because, as pointed out, prone is generally not feasible in a real world setting.
Messed around with a friends setup once and was surprised that it was more difficult than anticipated. I don’t shoot competitively so not sure I’ll ever get into it but using a tripod is interesting for sure.
Messed around with a friends setup once and was surprised that it was more difficult than anticipated.
WAY more difficult!!
vicious_cb
11-09-20, 12:27
I guess people started realizing the real world has a lot of sh*t on the ground, even in an urban setting.
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 12:32
WAY more difficult!!
Obviously there's still technique aspects to learn.
Tripod make and weight rating matter as well. If you want it to be "easy", you got to pay the price. A 15lb rifle on a 20lb rated tripod isn't going to be as stable as one on a 70-90lb rated rig.
I thought the RRS/carbon fiber uber-tripod was BS geardo hype. It isn't.
So load them down like stealthy pack mules in Gillie suits.
Tripod make and weight rating matter as well. If you want it to be "easy", you got to pay the price. A 15lb rifle on a 20lb rated tripod isn't going to be as stable as one on a 70-90lb rated rig.
Yeah, for sure. Same with running them with spotting scopes. The manfroto in the pic above is the lighter of the Tripods Pappabear runs. I can't remember if we tried the big mamba jamba or not. It's been over a year since we shot of the tripod.
I absolutely hate shooting of a tripod. Probably something we need to get back to because, as pointed out, prone is generally not feasible in a real world setting.
I actually felt the same way the first time i shot off one. I thought it was harder than expected, and something i wouldn't ever use. My opinion has changed a lot after years of PRS shooting and hunting, and after just a small amount of practice, i felt shooting off the tripod became easy.
The quality and durability of the tripod does matter A LOT though. Having a tripod rated to handle a large rifle, as well as a variety of leg adjustability, and a high quality ball head, make a world of difference in the ease of use and performance.
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 13:21
Take these 2 pics...
First, here's a Manfrotto/Ashbury Precision ballhead. Notice the sling wrapped around the leg and the pack situated under the firing-side elbow for additional support.
https://i.imgur.com/mUQDwXQ.jpg
Or here in the sitting with the front-most shooter filling in dead space with his pack for additional support. And pretty sure he's got a bag wedged under his left knee fine-tune his position.
https://i.imgur.com/K1xOsCU.jpg
Compare that to a better tripod setup where no firing-side support is used/required. (Note: same shooter as first pic)
https://i.imgur.com/I4GpieW.jpg
And appropriately enough, here's one pulled from social media this morning. Some creative use of the Manfrotto feature:
https://i.imgur.com/LaymLMb.jpg
A down and dirty re: tripods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9XvRwiQz-E
Take these 2 pics...
First, here's a Manfrotto/Ashbury Precision ballhead. Notice the sling wrapped around the leg and the pack situated under the firing-side elbow for additional support.
Or here in the sitting with the front-most shooter filling in dead space with his pack for additional support. And pretty sure he's got a bag wedged under his left knee fine-tune his position.
Great post. Stabilizing the shooter in addition to the tripod helps a lot. Squatting on a backpack in a kneel, or using a pack or a Fat Bag underneath the stock/arm up front, makes tripods (and any other rest) even better.
titsonritz
11-09-20, 15:35
The quality and durability of the tripod does matter A LOT though. Having a tripod rated to handle a large rifle, as well as a variety of leg adjustability, and a high quality ball head, make a world of difference in the ease of use and performance.
I've been putting this off but this begs the question, who is making the top tripods and ball heads? I'm seeing Really Right Stuff, Manfrotto, Shadow Tech, Hog Saddle, others? Is one better than the other or are they pretty much the same thing? Is Carbon Fiber or aluminum the way to go?
I've been putting this off but this begs the question, who is making the top tripods and ball heads? I'm seeing Really Right Stuff, Manfrotto, Shadow Tech, Hog Saddle, others? Is one better than the other or are they pretty much the same thing? Is Carbon Fiber or aluminum the way to go?
From everything i've seen and used, Really Right Stuff seems to be the gold standard. You definitely pay for the quality, but if you want to buy once/cry once, RRS is a solid choice.
As for carbon fiber vs aluminum, i much prefer the carbon fiber tripods as they are much lighter, but still very durable. I drag mine all over the mountains hunting and it hasn't been bad to carry and has held up to a lot of abuse.
This is a good article about what the pros use and why. The tripod section is about half way down the article: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/02/10/rifle-bipod-tripod/
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 15:50
I've been putting this off but this begs the question, who is making the top tripods and ball heads? I'm seeing Really Right Stuff, Manfrotto, Shadow Tech, Hog Saddle, others? Is one better than the other or are they pretty much the same thing? Is Carbon Fiber or aluminum the way to go?
RRS/Really Right Stuff is gonna run you about $1k give or take on the options. Then you add a self-leveling base or something like the Anvil head. Overall, you're looking $1200-$1500 if memory serves. Spicey, but worth the money. It's near-prone with bipod level stable.
Manfrotto's and the Shadowtech (which is the Hog Saddle people...which are actually SLIK tripods) are aluminum. Manfrotto's can be carbon fiber but when they were the go-to thing guys always complained about the Manfrotto's carbon fibers cracking and breaking. Not the same animal as RRS.
A Pig0311 and a Pig saddle (steel and cheaper version of the Hog saddle) can be had for like $300 and is the absolute bare minimum of a serviceable setup.
If you want a cheaper version of an RRS, that i've found to be good quality, take a look at the Patriot Valley Arms COMP-40 tripod. I have one and it's been really good quality, and very similar in construction to the RRS, and it's $500 instead of $1,000. RRS is nicer and a little lighter, but the COMP-40 has been surprisingly good for the price. I run mine with a RRS ball head and it's been great.
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 16:11
If you want a cheaper version of an RRS, that i've found to be good quality, take a look at the Patriot Valley Arms COMP-40 tripod. I have one and it's been really good quality, and very similar in construction to the RRS, and it's $500 instead of $1,000. RRS is nicer and a little lighter, but the COMP-40 has been surprisingly good for the price. I run mine with a RRS ball head and it's been great.
I can't remember which brand, but there was a big flare up over on the Hide with tolerance/fit issues with some of the poor-man's RRS alternatives....micrometer pics and all. When it works, it's great but its not always a sure thing.
I can't remember which brand, but there was a big flare up over on the Hide with tolerance/fit issues with some of the poor-man's RRS alternatives....micrometer pics and all. When it works, it's great but its not always a sure thing.
Interesting. Do you remember what tolerance/fit issues? Issues with certain heads fitting? I'd be curious which brands.
All i know is, i've used the COMP-40 with a RRS ball head and it's worked perfectly. I still prefer my RRS, but for a cheaper option it's been solid for me.
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 17:38
Interesting. Do you remember what tolerance/fit issues? Issues with certain heads fitting? I'd be curious which brands.
All i know is, i've used the COMP-40 with a RRS ball head and it's worked perfectly. I still prefer my RRS, but for a cheaper option it's been solid for me.
If memory serves the OP's tripod was a few thou too small and wouldn't accept the RRS head. Then somebody else busted out their collection and compared them to RRS specs. Either a Feisol or Leofoto (as they were the top 2 contenders to RRS at the time) was a little bigger than RRS spec (or at least the example shown) if memory serves.
I like what one guy said once on the 589th "School me on tripods" thread that came up. His advice: "Just pick the carbon fiber pattern you think is prettiest." :lol:
BangBang01
11-09-20, 17:57
Some good information here. Tripod shooting has taken off on many different levels and aspects, not just the Mil/LE side of things but recreation and competition as well. It does offer a stable platform once the shooter gets used to it.
Tripod employment has been a standard part of basic sniper training and employment technique for at least a decade.
Getchu some of this!
https://i.imgur.com/Ah9NOPz.jpg
That's sweet. Maybe a lot of extra stuff to carry in the field, but it's still sweet if the option exists.
titsonritz
11-09-20, 19:30
From everything i've seen and used, Really Right Stuff seems to be the gold standard. You definitely pay for the quality, but if you want to buy once/cry once, RRS is a solid choice.
As for carbon fiber vs aluminum, i much prefer the carbon fiber tripods as they are much lighter, but still very durable. I drag mine all over the mountains hunting and it hasn't been bad to carry and has held up to a lot of abuse.
This is a good article about what the pros use and why. The tripod section is about half way down the article: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/02/10/rifle-bipod-tripod/
RRS/Really Right Stuff is gonna run you about $1k give or take on the options. Then you add a self-leveling base or something like the Anvil head. Overall, you're looking $1200-$1500 if memory serves. Spicey, but worth the money. It's near-prone with bipod level stable.
Manfrotto's and the Shadowtech (which is the Hog Saddle people...which are actually SLIK tripods) are aluminum. Manfrotto's can be carbon fiber but when they were the go-to thing guys always complained about the Manfrotto's carbon fibers cracking and breaking. Not the same animal as RRS.
A Pig0311 and a Pig saddle (steel and cheaper version of the Hog saddle) can be had for like $300 and is the absolute bare minimum of a serviceable setup.
Thanks for all the information guys. This damn site is going to keep me in the poor house. :)
pointblank4445
11-09-20, 19:48
Thanks for all the information guys. This damn site is going to keep me in the poor house. :)
I don't think there's ever been a piece of kit that I've done a bigger 180 on than my RRS tripod setup...worth every cent. I already had about $500-600 invested in my other rig and components and struggled with how much more it could give.
How much would you pay to have 95%+ accuracy or better of prone/bipod from a standing position? And how much is it worth to have the tripod do more of the work?
I'll tell ya, that's me (A-05) above working hard to keep my shots in a 3" circle at 100y in Alliance, OH. 2 years later, that's also me just slapping my gun onto the RRS and going to work on a 8" plate at 300y from a hide site...almost boringly easy.
How are these? https://www.flmcanada.com/product/flm-cp34-l4-ii-tripod/
kaiservontexas
11-09-20, 20:28
Any photography tripod will work with an adapter to work with rails? If so I would just need an adapter to work with rails. Sorry if this was answered. Also if any links to said adapter could be provided. That would be appreciated. Maybe I could get one for my birthday or something.
titsonritz
11-09-20, 20:34
Any photography tripod will work with an adapter to work with rails? If so I would just need an adapter to work with rails. Sorry if this was answered. Also if any links to said adapter could be provided. That would be appreciated. Maybe I could get one for my birthday or something.
Sniper's Hide brings that up in the video posted above by pointblank4445.
kaiservontexas
11-09-20, 20:36
Sniper's Hide brings that up in the video posted above by pointblank4445.
Thank you!!!
Obviously there's still technique aspects to learn.
Tripod make and weight rating matter as well. If you want it to be "easy", you got to pay the price. A 15lb rifle on a 20lb rated tripod isn't going to be as stable as one on a 70-90lb rated rig.
I thought the RRS/carbon fiber uber-tripod was BS geardo hype. It isn't.
Yep, definitely a technique deficiency on my part. As for gear, I’m someone who is into photography (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more). The thought of using my Manfrotto 055 legs, which are fairly sturdy, doesn’t seem like it would quite cut it. I’m guessing features for quick deployment of legs at different angles would be critical.
I am not a troglodyte in that the "old" way is the best way or only way. We did not learn on tripods, just bipods. To me they are a little wonky, but I have not had a lot of time with them. When I was in our S/S had them but did not use them much.
Which would be fine if that was Hathcock...
Can you cite? I have seen that pic attributed to him in about a dozen different publications.
Not wanting an argument, just the truth.
Thanks for all the information guys. This damn site is going to keep me in the poor house. :)
haha aint that the truth! I just got into Thermal scopes, and good grief, those things are spendy!
I have too many friends with big wallets, who always own the really nice expensive gear, so it ruins me to anything of lesser quality
Can you cite? I have seen that pic attributed to him in about a dozen different publications.
Not wanting an argument, just the truth.
The man in that image is Lance Corporal Dalton Gunderson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slY_xSwN4B8
The man in that image is Lance Corporal Dalton Gunderson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slY_xSwN4B8
Thanks...
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