View Full Version : 556 ammo anybody?
What is the deal with the ammo shortage? Is it raw materials? Goberment buying it all? 556, 9mm , 45acp it doesn't matter, not available.
Because its not like you see stuff come available then its gone quickly. Nothing is available or seems to becoming available?
I thought it was boring from panics at first but now I see nothing, teach a brother something.
I take it back I did find some stuff at Midway USA but slim and expensive.
PB
dissipator_AR
11-09-20, 18:28
Panic buying when covid hit and then all of the social unrest that caused everyone and their mother to go buy guns and ammo. Now it's going to be made even worse with ol Shotgun Joe and Kamala Harris in the White House.
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It's from panics. Mostly from seasoned owners. When you have 20k rounds do you say that enough or do you say 1k more can't hurt?! Add to that guys who can spend $30k without batting an eye and there goes your smmo
PracticalRifleman
11-09-20, 18:38
Government isn’t buying anymore than normal.
I have friends that work in ammo plants. They are facing the same COVID nonsense slowing down production as everybody else. Combine that with hoarders and panic-buyers from COVID, social unrest, and the election and you have the perfect storm.
Currently, buying in bulk isn’t an option unless you’re willing to pay $700-800/1000 for crummy ammo. If you shop around at mom’n’pops you can find small quantities at reasonable prices. Even Academy has large quantities of ammo in stock but is limiting purchases.
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Reduced production due to social distancing in the factories, reduced raw materials and distribution for the same reason. The only lead smelter in the US closed during the previous administration and a lot of our powders are made overseas.
The ammo companies and distributors got stuck with a ton of surplus ammo they had to sell at reduced prices after the last pre-election panic.
I agree it's strange that it does not even look like a reduced amount of ammunition is available in some parts of the country . Panic buying alone does not explain why ammunition has dissappeared, not being bought up by scalpers and re-sold, just gone.
From what I understand right now the backlog is primers. They aren't easy to manufacture, so even reloading is impacted.
I just got 1,200 from Midway at $0.57 per round and it sold out fast.
Unfortunately, I don't see the cost or availability getting better any time in the near future.
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PracticalRifleman
11-09-20, 18:50
Reduced production due to social distancing in the factories, reduced raw materials and distribution for the same reason. The only lead smelter in the US closed during the previous administration and a lot of our powders are made overseas.
The ammo companies and distributors got stuck with a ton of surplus ammo they had to sell at reduced prices after the last pre-election panic.
I agree it's strange that it does not even look like a reduced amount of ammunition is available in some parts of the country . Panic buying alone does not explain why ammunition has dissappeared, not being bought up by scalpers and re-sold, just gone.
Most lead used in bullets is recycled. There is no shortage of lead in the United Stated.
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What is the deal with the ammo shortage? Is it raw materials? Goberment buying it all? 556, 9mm , 45acp it doesn't matter, not available.
Because its not like you see stuff come available then its gone quickly. Nothing is available or seems to becoming available?
I thought it was boring from panics at first but now I see nothing, teach a brother something.
I take it back I did find some stuff at Midway USA but slim and expensive.
PB
Somehow I am seriously doubting that you were one of those that got caught with their pants down and did not stock up long ago to make sure that you were not subject to market 'disturbances'.
:confused:
One of the reasons I don't post pictures of my 'going to the range' junk is because I know darn well a guy like you will come along right after and post pictures of his pallet jack (loaded way beyond capacity no doubt) sitting next to his spot.
https://i.imgur.com/2wyfuCY.jpg
Stuff is not 'available' right now because guys like you bought it all when it was cheap and stacked it way past 'deep' leaving mere scraps behind for the rest of us schmucks.
chamber143
11-09-20, 19:16
The coincidence theorist in me tells me that’s its being artificially done. Guy I know says that groups are buying extremely large amounts and apparently it’s not showing up in the market. Not sure if it’s being bought in preparation for something or simply stick piling. That’s anyone’s guess.
Government isn’t buying anymore than normal.
I have friends that work in ammo plants. They are facing the same COVID nonsense slowing down production as everybody else. Combine that with hoarders and panic-buyers from COVID, social unrest, and the election and you have the perfect storm.
Currently, buying in bulk isn’t an option unless you’re willing to pay $700-800/1000 for crummy ammo. If you shop around at mom’n’pops you can find small quantities at reasonable prices. Even Academy has large quantities of ammo in stock but is limiting purchases.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkPlenty of people willing to pay that. Cheaper Than Dirt has been proving it for over a decade
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It's not showing up on the market because everyone is holding on to it. Look, Biden is likely to be prez and between the hostilities and fear of bans everyone is afraid at what can happen
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PracticalRifleman
11-09-20, 20:34
Plenty of people willing to pay that. Cheaper Than Dirt has been proving it for over a decade
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Capitalism at its finest.
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Capitalism at its finest.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIn this specific case yes and no. This is using people's fear to profit from it. Knowing they'll pay whatever just to have.
A guy at the office next to mine has a G23 and like 3 rounds. He was asking to buy more. Willing to pay boat load just to have some. This is desperation not capitalism. He would probably pay anything
I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to empty their bank accounts, sell all their possessions and take out 12 loans if they were promised a cure for whatever is killing them. There's a point where the price of the product is irrelevant, people will pay through the nose
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PracticalRifleman
11-09-20, 20:52
In this specific case yes and no. This is using people's fear to profit from it. Knowing they'll pay whatever just to have.
A guy at the office next to mine has a G23 and like 3 rounds. He was asking to buy more. Willing to pay boat load just to have some. This is desperation not capitalism. He would probably pay anything
I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to empty their bank accounts, sell all their possessions and take out 12 loans if they were promised a cure for whatever is killing them. There's a point where the price of the product is irrelevant, people will pay through the nose
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Supply and demand. Simple as that. There is little to buy and lots wanting to buy it, be it fear or some other motivation it cannot cheat the supply curve and the demand curve. Sellers can’t replace it and if they sell it at last years’ prices nobody gets it but the first to come across it because it’s a “bargain”. Scarcity is what makes the world go round.
It is available to those most willing to buy it solely due to supply curve. That’s literally what capitalism is about.
If a cure for what is killing you exists, what good are your possessions if you’re dead?
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From what I understand right now the backlog is primers. They aren't easy to manufacture, so even reloading is impacted.
I just got 1,200 from Midway at $0.57 per round and it sold out fast.
Unfortunately, I don't see the cost or availability getting better any time in the near future.
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I heard the same thing.
Stuff is not 'available' right now because guys like you bought it all when it was cheap and stacked it way past 'deep' leaving mere scraps behind for the rest of us schmucks.
You should nominate yourself to the Board of Ammo Allocation.
But it reality your dumb ass had just as much opportunity to buy from 2017 to early 2020.
You chose to buy other things.
I'm stocked pretty deep, but never deep enough. 556 is no issue for us but 9 is a bitch for primers. If anyone has small pistol primers I'm not above a weekend to the ranch.....I'm cheap lol
crazy times, primers seem to be an issue. Maybe Biden shut down primers .........
This ammo issue is BS, stay safe!!!!!!
Good luck Brothers in arms.
PB
Here’s my question: If primers are the slowdown, what is involved in the manufacture of primers?
Here’s my question: If primers are the slowdown, what is involved in the manufacture of primers?I heard this from a conversation with a person at Fenix Ammunition.
While there are hundreds of not more ammo manufacturers, there's only a few manufacturers of primers and they are time consuming to make.
When covid-19 hit their factories slowed down, ammo started to fly off the shelves and they haven't been able to keep up with demand.
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Most lead used in bullets is recycled. There is no shortage of lead in the United Stated.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis. I know a guy that owns a pretty popular bullet casting business. He buys all of his lead by the container from Alibaba. Keeps prices low for him, but I'm sure his customers would love to know they're shooting Chinese lead.
Here’s my question: If primers are the slowdown, what is involved in the manufacture of primers?
I'm sure it's lot of stuff that the EPA doesn't like.
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Here's a good article on how primers are manufactured.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/cartridge-primer-technology-developments/
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Skrapmetal
11-10-20, 06:13
It's a perfect storm for ammo to be a train wreck. It was already really bad but seemed to be stabilizing a bit and then the election happened. Looking at Ammoseek this morning makes me wanna vomit and it's going up so fast that it is just gonna get worse for a bit.
I still have plenty that I bought at $.26/rnd but I haven't been replacing as I use it as much this year as previous. I sucked it up and bought some in the .60's last week and I'm glad I did now. I also stocked up on .22lr while it was still cheap early this year to start supplementing my range trips with some plinking to help ration out the good stuff.
indianalex01
11-10-20, 10:16
Somehow I am seriously doubting that you were one of those that got caught with their pants down and did not stock up long ago to make sure that you were not subject to market 'disturbances'.
:confused:
One of the reasons I don't post pictures of my 'going to the range' junk is because I know darn well a guy like you will come along right after and post pictures of his pallet jack (loaded way beyond capacity no doubt) sitting next to his spot.
Stuff is not 'available' right now because guys like you bought it all when it was cheap and stacked it way past 'deep' leaving mere scraps behind for the rest of us schmucks.
It’s for the best. Should’ve got it before the panic. I say the guy was smart for getting it. Don’t be a player hater. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. Do better next time. Don’t point fingers.
indianalex01
11-10-20, 10:20
All because of stupidity. Piss poor planning. The guy has 3 rounds. How the heck did he let that happen? It’s people like him that are the weak and will be pushed around and robbed if things go south.
All because of stupidity. Piss poor planning. The guy has 3 rounds. How the heck did he let that happen? It’s people like him that are the weak and will be pushed around and robbed if things go south.If you're referring to me then I don't know and don't care really. I'm sure he had more than 3 and was just exaggerating but meant he had very little.
How did he let it happen? How many people do you know that have been robbed? I don't know a single person. I know people who went their whole lives without ever owning a firearm and ever needing one. It's low priority for most people.
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Here’s my question: If primers are the slowdown, what is involved in the manufacture of primers?
Filling a little tiny brass cup with an actual explosive and not blowing the machine (and possibly the plant) up in the process.
From what I understand right now the backlog is primers. They aren't easy to manufacture, so even reloading is impacted.
Correct. COVID, unrest/BLM, election, etc. are all contributing factors in the perfect storm/nightmare but the main shortage cause is primer. There's only 4 domestic manufacturers of primer, that seems to be the bottleneck.
As far as outlook, I think it looks bleak to the tune of a year or more, not months. The longer the shortage continues, coupled with the more unstable things become, the more demand outpaces production and backlogs continue to build as a result. And whether Biden gets in (=gun control), or Trump flips states and gets in through SCOTUS (=unrest), people will be panicking for one reason or another.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, this isn't going away anytime soon.
Anyone in the hurt locker for ammo is going to have to stop / greatly reduce shooting or pay through the nose for ammo.
Those of us who are prepared will likely do well to reduce expenditures / shift to some rimfire training and assess.
The biggest unknown is legislation - if they eliminate online purchasing, that would keep up the demand for much much longer and keep prices very high for the foreseeable future. At least 2+ years until a potential political change or court cases wind up in SCOTUS.
indianalex01
11-10-20, 11:52
If you're referring to me then I don't know and don't care really. I'm sure he had more than 3 and was just exaggerating but meant he had very little.
How did he let it happen? How many people do you know that have been robbed? I don't know a single person. I know people who went their whole lives without ever owning a firearm and ever needing one. It's low priority for most people.
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With that attitude you are bound to get burnt. Complacency kills.
With that attitude you are bound to get burnt. Complacency kills.Ok! Ill make sure to have him let me know when he visits Somali, or Detroit. Until then I doubt his area will turn into a blood bath.
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Get a room and bang it out you two. :p
Dakota Kid
11-10-20, 11:58
I've purchased primers lately at our local Scheels. They come sporadically. One week, 20,000 small rifle. Two weeks later, 14,000 large pistol.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, this isn't going away anytime soon.
Anyone in the hurt locker for ammo is going to have to stop / greatly reduce shooting or pay through the nose for ammo.
Those of us who are prepared will likely do well to reduce expenditures / shift to some rimfire training and assess.
The biggest unknown is legislation - if they eliminate online purchasing, that would keep up the demand for much much longer and keep prices very high for the foreseeable future. At least 2+ years until a potential political change or court cases wind up in SCOTUS.
That's a good point and interesting observation...the gun (and by extension ammo) world is like the stock market. Even if nothing is passed, rumblings of even an EO involving guns/ammo would jack price up and hit demand. Nothing even needs to happen, just someone in gov saying something can cause panikk.
The crazy thing here is there's no room for it, instability is a guarantee either way as far as POTUS goes, and the market's already sideways.
And this is the double - triple whammy.
First the rioting going around the country with BLM/ANTIFA started getting people buying.
Then the COVID19 stuff really got it going.
Now the Election.
And honestly, if someone only started looking come the fall / election time, they were about 6-9 months late already.
Somehow I am seriously doubting that you were one of those that got caught with their pants down and did not stock up long ago to make sure that you were not subject to market 'disturbances'.
:confused:
One of the reasons I don't post pictures of my 'going to the range' junk is because I know darn well a guy like you will come along right after and post pictures of his pallet jack (loaded way beyond capacity no doubt) sitting next to his spot.
https://i.imgur.com/2wyfuCY.jpg
Stuff is not 'available' right now because guys like you bought it all when it was cheap and stacked it way past 'deep' leaving mere scraps behind for the rest of us schmucks.
I was not caught with my pants down Pal, I assure you. I dont even follow your post, a bit confusing to me. But my ammo and reloading is good, I just wish I could keep par levels and cant with factory fodder. Reloading, we are GTG. Good thread though, intersting.
PB
Ky. Gun Co., Bardstown, Ky., had several pallets of Federal 5.56 M193, albeit at $.80/round with no limits on quantity. This was last Friday (11/6).
A local gun shop has 50 round Browning 9mm 155gr FMJ for....................................$36.99!!!
All I wanted was a few boxes of MK262 and a few boxes of Hornady 62gr TAP in 5.56 flavor, guess I'll be waiting a while.
Straight Shooter
11-10-20, 15:36
One of the reasons I don't post pictures of my 'going to the range' junk is because I know darn well a guy like you will come along right after and post pictures of his pallet jack (loaded way beyond capacity no doubt) sitting next to his spot.
https://i.imgur.com/2wyfuCY.jpg
Stuff is not 'available' right now because guys like you bought it all when it was cheap and stacked it way past 'deep' leaving mere scraps behind for the rest of us schmucks.[/QUOTE]
So, we are supposed to feel quilty or something for buying ammo at decades low prices when there was a glut of it literally everywhere?
I think not..and if ANYONE here now didnt heed THREE YEARS WORTH OF WARNINGS to "buy now" as I myself weekly told anyone who would listen, well go cry in a mirror, its YOUR fault, SCHMUCK.
PracticalRifleman
11-10-20, 15:46
The stuff we’ve bought the last three years would have lasted ten minutes in today’s environment.
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Goes back to what I've told ppl before. Buy ammo like you buy stocks. Often, whatever you can afford.
Whether that is a case a month, a case a quarter, etc. Whatever you can do, do it. Because if you don't, life gets in the way and you are 1-2 years behind and staring at empty shelves with guns to shoot but no ammo when the crisis' eventually hit (and here is a hint - they ALWAYS WILL).
I'm generally 'new again' to the firearm game, getting back into it in the past 10 years starting in my mid-30s. Even so, it's nice to look on the shelves and see factory new ammo from 5-8 years ago that I purchased when it was too cheap not to. Those good deals that popped up around the holidays or during the summer doldrums of guns-n-ammo stores needing to clean out inventory.
I tried to buy a case of something every month for the last 2-3 years. Wasn't always a $600 case of 308, sometimes it was a $175 case of 22LR when they where plentiful. It's really just the discipline to have a budget and make yourself do what you decide to do, not what is stupid or easy.
Folks who stocked up when ammo was plentiful are not affecting availability now.
I stocked up on fired brass and memories more than new ammo, but I am a grown ass man so you won't hear me crying much.
Besides, I do have a few hundred pounds of 22lr and ~ 30,000 primers. I can stay busy shooting rim fire and reloads until ammo supplies come back, guns are banned, or there is a civil war and I load up with ammo from my uncle.
Andy
turnburglar
11-10-20, 20:42
I totally got caught with my pants down on this one.
I really should have known better, but I thought the good days where gonna last another 4 years at least. I was wrong.
I moved to a free state, and bought a whole bunch of guns and mags that I couldn't own in CA. I was buying a case of ammo a month, but I was almost shooting most of that case. Made a whole bunch of new friends in the process. Don't regret a thing. I have enough rounds to make it through a small boogaloo but nothing close to a life time supply of fullujah action.
Also I don't blame hoarders for this shortage at all. I talked to some of the employees at my local bass pro and they where saying that there are MILLIONS of new gun owners just from the last 6 months. They said people would bring a box of whatever ammo they could find on the shelves and then going to the gun counter and asking for a gun that would shoot that caliber.
I'm sitting tight for now, I've had a lifetime of good shooting so it won't hurt me much to take a break and see how things shake out. If it loosens up to where I can affordably replace what I burn, I'll dust some off and get after it again.
Looks like winters coming in more ways than one.
Good news is that Natchesz, Aim Surplus, and a few others are pretty much holding their prices comparable to what things were a year ago. You just have to be ready in the 11 minutes before things sell out.
This was in/out within a few minutes last night
https://www.natchezss.com/hornady-frontier-rifle-ammunition-xm193-5-56mm-nato-55-gr-fmj-3240-fps-500-ct-case.html
I'm not really buying the idea of a primer shortage, 5.56 appropriate powder (mid burn rate rifle powder) is damn scarce as well.
A couple of my local retailers have been keeping their prices some what close to pre-COVID prices. In the past 3 months I’ve found AE MSR 5.56, Federal 5.56 & PMC XTAC 5.56 for $0.50 around and PMC Bronze .223 for $0.45 a round. Of course it doesn’t last long at those prices. 9mm on the other hand is darn near impossible to find. One shop does have some PMC Bronze 115 gr in stock for $0.74 a round.
I don’t have as much 5.56 stocked up as I feel that I should have, because I spent the last three years shooting so regularly that I couldn’t afford to replenish the ammo I was burning quickly enough.....but on the other hand after all that range time I’m a much better shooter than I used to be too, so I guess that counts for something.
And I do have quantities of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, and guns that fire them, to fall back on if the 5.56 runs out. So I guess it could be worse.
I don’t have as much 5.56 stocked up as I feel that I should have, because I spent the last three years shooting so regularly that I couldn’t afford to replenish the ammo I was burning quickly enough.....but on the other hand after all that range time I’m a much better shooter than I used to be too, so I guess that counts for something.
And I do have quantities of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, and guns that fire them, to fall back on if the 5.56 runs out. So I guess it could be worse.I'm in a similar situation. Haven't fired my AKs in a few years but at one point surplus 5.45 was as cheap as 22lr. So I have plenty of that. I don't frequent gun shops because I don't care enough to stand in line only to look at 3 SXS shotguns. If I didn't have a job then maybe just to catch ammo deals early in the morning. However, by 5pm I'm sure it's all gone
Aside from that I have my financial limits on how much I'm willing to pay for ammo. And it's pretty much at that point now for some calibers.
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PracticalRifleman
11-11-20, 09:18
I'm not really buying the idea of a primer shortage, 5.56 appropriate powder (mid burn rate rifle powder) is damn scarce as well.
For reloaders, you can’t get primers. The manufacturers of primers are using all they can make for loading their own ammunition. There are three domestic producers of commercial primers; ATK (CCI and Federal), Olin (Winchester), and Remington.
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Yo PB!
If you think back to when Obama got elected, it was pretty much like it is now. There are a lot of new shooters, but the larger factor is just supply and demand. COVID probably has something to do with it, but it isn’t like people are hand building each primer, so I think COVID is a smaller when compared to people stocking up.
On a side note, I think I’m down to 5k in shootable 9mm. I don’t dip into hollow point (expensive bonded stuff) for regular shooting, but I’m not going to pay obscene/ rape prices.
I’m used to paying 160-180 per k for brass 9mm.... what are the rest of you guys typically paying for practice 9mm brass?
PracticalRifleman
11-11-20, 09:20
https://youtu.be/UQwO1qgrcWo
Good explanation.
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I’m used to paying 160-180 per k for brass 9mm.... what are the rest of you guys typically paying for practice 9mm brass?
Pre-covid I was paying about $140 for Wolf steel and about $175-180 for Brass target loads.
I put away 4K of 9MM on backorder (1/2 steel, 1/2 brass) at those prices but I don't expect to see it for a long long while, if at all.
I received some 308 off backorder for $0.55/rd (PPU M80) and have another 2 on backorder as well for similar pricing.
I was too late to get 556 on backorder (the lemmings always gravitate towards 9 and 556, before turning to 308 / 40 / 38 / 22LR, etc).
Even so, I have plenty (for me) of everything for a number of years.
MA2_Navy_Veteran
11-11-20, 11:21
Ammo shortage you say?... I hadn't really noticed since last I filled my bunkers, but I'll take your word for it.
No shortages for anybody that I know of personally though... Semper Peratus!
I'm in a similar situation. Haven't fired my AKs in a few years but at one point surplus 5.45 was as cheap as 22lr. So I have plenty of that. I don't frequent gun shops because I don't care enough to stand in line only to look at 3 SXS shotguns. If I didn't have a job then maybe just to catch ammo deals early in the morning. However, by 5pm I'm sure it's all gone
Aside from that I have my financial limits on how much I'm willing to pay for ammo. And it's pretty much at that point now for some calibers.
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Although I was once a pretty hardcore AK guy (see username) I got out of them when I started getting into ARs...around 2008-2009. So for several years before the 5.56 situation I barely even touched my small collection of AKs, but this year as I started becoming concerned about dipping into my 5.56 reserves I abruptly started shooting the AKs semi-regularly.
The really sick thing is that I have found myself kind of enjoying them....particularly my SGL-21 and SLR-104.
Here's 280,000 rounds of 5.56. You can only buy 600 at a time at an inflated price however.
https://www.2awarehouse.com/winchester-5-56x45mm-m193-55gr-fmj-lake-city-brass-600-rounds/
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-d9pniirpyu/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/122398/160973/20201109_0756131__13315.1605123406.jpg?c=2?imbypass=on
Lol. That's ok. I'll defend myself with a rolled up newspaper before I pay that much
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We are back to the 2012-14 days when it's cheaper to shoot 762x51 and 45 than 5.56 & 9MM.
For a year plus I shot my SCAR17 and Hk45C nearly exclusively.
I burned through several cases of PPU M80 for $0.45/rd, compared to $1/rd for M855 / M193.
ViperTwoSix
11-11-20, 17:10
Just saw an article about Vista Outdoors having a backlog of over a year. I’m sure other manufacturers are in the same boat. Although foreign ammo seems to come in stock quite frequently. I’ve seen quite a bit of IMI 5.56, and even 9mm di-cut.
We are back to the 2012-14 days when it's cheaper to shoot 762x51 and 45 than 5.56 & 9MM.
For a year plus I shot my SCAR17 and Hk45C nearly exclusively.
I burned through several cases of PPU M80 for $0.45/rd, compared to $1/rd for M855 / M193.
Last I checked .308 was still expensive too.
Yo PB!
If you think back to when Obama got elected, it was pretty much like it is now. There are a lot of new shooters, but the larger factor is just supply and demand. COVID probably has something to do with it, but it isn’t like people are hand building each primer, so I think COVID is a smaller when compared to people stocking up.
On a side note, I think I’m down to 5k in shootable 9mm. I don’t dip into hollow point (expensive bonded stuff) for regular shooting, but I’m not going to pay obscene/ rape prices.
I’m used to paying 160-180 per k for brass 9mm.... what are the rest of you guys typically paying for practice 9mm brass?
Yea Stick, you could choose from a variety of Mfg and buy 1k for under $200 to the front door. I walked into a LGS today and they were selling 115 ball for $39.95, disgusting.
I did just stock up on componets for just about everything, so I should be good for a while. And I did spend the last two years stocking up on factory boom booms. I'm just not used to the inventory levels going down.
PB
Last I checked .308 was still expensive too.Non match grade 308 hasn't seemed to be that bad. I picked up 500 rounds of Lake City M80 for $450 which seemed reasonable today.
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I picked up 4 box limit of Blazer brass 115gr 9mm for $11.99/box at my local Rural King. They also had Gecco 9mm for 13.99/box. Last time they had 9mm was about a month ago so I was glad to see that ammo is still being distributed and some places still sell at reasonable price.
For reloaders, you can’t get primers. The manufacturers of primers are using all they can make for loading their own ammunition. There are three domestic producers of commercial primers; ATK (CCI and Federal), Olin (Winchester), and Remington.
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What I mean is that 223/5.56 appropriate powder is just as scarce. If it was only primers, there would be a glut of powder and projectiles.
Andy
I picked up 4 box limit of Blazer brass 115gr 9mm for $11.99/box at my local Rural King. They also had Gecco 9mm for 13.99/box. Last time they had 9mm was about a month ago so I was glad to see that ammo is still being distributed and some places still sell at reasonable price.
Rural King is pretty good. They usually have decent prices for a brick and mortar store. The last time I found 9mm was at an RK.
PracticalRifleman
11-11-20, 20:20
What I mean is that 223/5.56 appropriate powder is just as scarce. If it was only primers, there would be a glut of powder and projectiles.
Andy
At the LGS powder is aplenty but not powders. Online powder is dry too.
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Non match grade 308 hasn't seemed to be that bad. I picked up 500 rounds of Lake City M80 for $450 which seemed reasonable today.
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Yeah, that’s a far cry from $0.45/rd mentioned and still a fair bit more expensive than the cheapest brass non-reman out there. I picked up a 500rd case of the Brazilian M80 type stuff at $0.68/rd because I had none.
dirkmagurk
11-11-20, 21:30
If you’ve been in this long enough, you should have a decent stock of ammunition. The last four years under the Trump administration particularly have been prime for stocking up, the “Trump Slump”. If you only get onboard when there is a threat or gun control legislation then you’re way behind the curve. The ammunition manufacturers have not increased their prices, it is certain dealers that raise their price to take advantage of the situation, look around there are still honest dealers who have not price gouged.
If you’ve been in this long enough, you should have a decent stock of ammunition. The last four years under the Trump administration particularly have been prime for stocking up, the “Trump Slump”. If you only get onboard when there is a threat or gun control legislation then you’re way behind the curve. The ammunition manufacturers have not increased their prices, it is certain dealers that raise their price to take advantage of the situation, look around there are still honest dealers who have not price gouged.
Where? I'm still looking for the $175/1000 rounds of 9mm. Of manufacturers have not raised prices then there should still be 9mm under $200 shipped.
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dirkmagurk
11-11-20, 21:54
Where? I'm still looking for the $175/1000 rounds of 9mm. Of manufacturers have not raised prices then there should still be 9mm under $200 shipped.
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GT Distributors hasn’t raised their prices but they limit two boxes of ammo per person because people are buying their ammo to mark it up and flip it.
I'm not really buying the idea of a primer shortage, 5.56 appropriate powder (mid burn rate rifle powder) is damn scarce as well.
I'm not either. If you look at GunBroker, Sportsmans Supply and other high volume sellers have been auctioning truckloads of cases of primed brass lately.
So speaking of components, which powders are you guys having the best luck with? I’m gonna start buying what I ca when I can to put stuff back.
PracticalRifleman
11-11-20, 23:28
So speaking of components, which powders are you guys having the best luck with? I’m gonna start buying what I ca when I can to put stuff back.
Depends on the bullet and the loading method. I’m a fan of Varget, 8208 XBR, and TAC for heavier bullets. H335, H322, 3031, Benchmark, and TAC for lighter.
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There are a lot of powders that work in the 223. This covers some Hodgson powders:
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/reloading-beginners/reloading-223
Andy
GT Distributors hasn’t raised their prices but they limit two boxes of ammo per person because people are buying their ammo to mark it up and flip it.They only have Aguila and it's out of stock AND it's $13.99. At that price a case is $280. About $100 overpriced! If prices haven't gone up this ammo should be $180.
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There’s no question that prices have gone up from the manufacturer. There are certain distributors that are keeping prices close to pre-panic levels but they can only supply a couple cases at a time. For a gun store that can move a pallet (~100 cases) per month, that’s not even worth talking about. For the manufacturers that are actually putting out volume right now, first of all they’re mostly overseas mfgs, but secondly, pricing is definitely higher. Some more than others. It’s simple supply vs demand.
Last I checked .308 was still expensive too.
Yeah, but howabout back in Apr-May-June?
The Covid19 scare had the sheep buying 556 ARs and 9MM pistols first, so while those prices rose, 762/45/38SPL and others were not overly impacted. Mid summer I could still find 308 M80 (Lake City and PPU) for $0.55/rd. 22LR for 0.03/rd. Even got an oddball case of 38SPL for pre-panic prices.
You could watch the 'panic' wave flow through calibers online. In rifle ppl got stuck on 556 for awhile before buying lots of 308. 9MM went with 380 right behind it, then 38SPL / 40S&W. 22LR went nutz around midsummer and if you were smart, you grabbed a couple of cases from the Aguilla shipment that hit then.
Of course now the ammunition scare has run a full 8+ months, so everything has been picked over. And anyone who just realized they need more ammo in the last 2 months is waaaaay late.
But still if I have the choice to shoot 556 or 308 for $1/rd, I'll be shooting 308 all day.
Looking on GB, which I never use anyway, prices are insane. Some guy has 2 boxes (40 rounds) of 170gr Winchester 30-30 for $135 and there's 14 bids! Someone thought it's worth paying almost $3.50 per round. He has other 30-30 for basically the same price. 40 rounds for $140 Buy now.
EDIT: ammoseek has cheapest 30-30 for $5/rd! [emoji854][emoji15]
Wolf Mil Classic 223. 500ct buy now $499. Starting bid $489! Lol. No takers though
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Looking on GB, which I never use anyway, prices are insane. Some guy has 2 boxes (40 rounds) of 170gr Winchester 30-30 for $135 and there's 14 bids! Someone thought it's worth paying almost $3.50 per round. He has other 30-30 for basically the same price. 40 rounds for $140 Buy now.
EDIT: ammoseek has cheapest 30-30 for $5/rd! [emoji854][emoji15]
Bubba gotta have ammo hunt them deer with. ;)
I’m used to paying 160-180 per k for brass 9mm.... what are the rest of you guys typically paying for practice 9mm brass?
Last year at the lgs I work at we were selling S&B 115gr 9mm for about $7-8 a box. This year our dealer price is damn near $10 a box for the same sku.
Most ammo mfg’s have over a year backlog right now. It’s not going to get any better anytime soon.
Straight Shooter
11-12-20, 07:41
Bubba gotta have ammo hunt them deer with. ;)
After he uses half of it to "sight in"..he will barely have enough to last this year.
Mr McSimon
11-12-20, 08:43
Here's some Federal AE .223 for $459.00.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/federal-american-eagle-223-rem-target-centerfire-rifle-ammo
Here's some Federal AE .223 for $459.00.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/federal-american-eagle-223-rem-target-centerfire-rifle-ammoOut of stock
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tacticaldesire
11-12-20, 10:22
If you’ve been in this long enough, you should have a decent stock of ammunition. The last four years under the Trump administration particularly have been prime for stocking up, the “Trump Slump”. If you only get onboard when there is a threat or gun control legislation then you’re way behind the curve. The ammunition manufacturers have not increased their prices, it is certain dealers that raise their price to take advantage of the situation, look around there are still honest dealers who have not price gouged.
Manufacturers have absolutely raised their prices.
I'm so foolish - I would have given away a box of 30-30 if a friend asked. Didn't know they were golden.
Andy
This is when I smile for having 4-5 huge Rubbermaid tubs full of once fired brass from the last 10 years of choooiting. ;)
I'm so foolish - I would have given away a box of 30-30 if a friend asked. Didn't know they were golden.
AndyI still do. Not 30-30 but have given away 2 50rd boxes of Speer Gold dot 135gr 38spl. One to a friend when I sold him my snub nose and one to a close relative.
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I can't be bothered with reloading. I can't think of any reason short of a legit zombie apocalypse where I'd force myself to sit through reloading
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I can't be bothered with reloading. I can't think of any reason short of a legit zombie apocalypse where I'd force myself to sit through reloading
You have to like doing it. That's for sure. Otherwise, it's never going to pay off... even in these types of markets.
PracticalRifleman
11-12-20, 13:54
I can't be bothered with reloading. I can't think of any reason short of a legit zombie apocalypse where I'd force myself to sit through reloading
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And that will be why you’re just going to have to suck it up and deal with prices we are currently experiencing.
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And that will be why you’re just going to have to suck it up and deal with prices we are currently experiencing.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot really. I just don't care enough to. If it's too expensive then I won't shoot.
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ViniVidivici
11-12-20, 14:57
Reloading is the only way, at this time, to acquire ammunition that is normally priced. I continue to train, shoot, load, repeat.
No damn way will I pay current prices. Very thankful I don't have to.
PracticalRifleman
11-12-20, 15:14
Not really. I just don't care enough to. If it's too expensive then I won't shoot.
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Ultimately, they will get non-participation compliance through taxation. Guys like you will be taxed out of the game and, by golly, won’t shoot because it’s too expensive.
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Ultimately, they will get non-participation compliance through taxation. Guys like you will be taxed out of the game and, by golly, won’t shoot because it’s too expensive.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMaybe, maybe not. Who's to say components won't be taxed like that too?
I have a certain level where I feel I'm not willing to spend the money. For instance, I'm not paying my mortgage worth for ammo. Period. Even if I were a millionaire. I'm not the kind to spend money just because I have it.
On the other hand I tried reloading. Have a press, supplies and all. Took about 30 min until I lost interest and stopped focusing. Afterwards I was just forcing myself. And none of that is good.
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Loading en mass, you really need a progressive. That is easy once you have it going.
Yeah, you have to still pay attention but it's a lot more rewarding looking at 500+ rounds after an hour than 50.
Straight Shooter
11-12-20, 20:08
Ultimately, they will get non-participation compliance through taxation. Guys like you will be taxed out of the game and, by golly, won’t shoot because it’s too expensive.
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Brother- before you get on a high horse, let it be known Ive lived long enough to see the goblins go after reloading components SEVERAL times, especially after 9/11.
They no more want you to be able to have that ability than they want you to own "assault rifles". Ive heard Feinstein, Schumer & others over the past decades say several times that gunpowder shouldnt be readily available to just anyone.
So, dont go thinking you are under the radar.
YOU AINT.
Brother- before you get on a high horse, let it be known Ive lived long enough to see the goblins go after reloading components SEVERAL times, especially after 9/11.
They no more want you to be able to have that ability than they want you to own "assault rifles". Ive heard Feinstein, Schumer & others over the past decades say several times that gunpowder shouldnt be readily available to just anyone.
So, dont go thinking you are under the radar.
YOU AINT.
Nobody needs a license and registration to buy a wood chipper.
Just saying. [emoji2373]
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This video has a decent explanation of all of the factors and circumstances coming all together at once.
https://youtu.be/UElgIDirsJ8
Today I bought my 500 round limit of Frontier 55gr at my local Scheels. Happened to stumble upon it at the right time and place.
dirkmagurk
11-12-20, 20:56
They only have Aguila and it's out of stock AND it's $13.99. At that price a case is $280. About $100 overpriced! If prices haven't gone up this ammo should be $180.
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It’s 13.99 because it’s a box of 50, not a bulk quantity like a 1,000 round case which lowers the cost per round. I don’t know what GT you’re going to, but the one by me has 50 round boxes of Federal. I assume you haven’t been in this game long enough to understand.
dirkmagurk
11-12-20, 20:59
Manufacturers have absolutely raised their prices.
Oh really, what is your source?
It’s 13.99 because it’s a box of 50, not a bulk quantity like a 1,000 round case which lowers the cost per round. I don’t know what GT you’re going to, but the one by me has 50 round boxes of Federal. I assume you haven’t been in this game long enough to understand.
I've been in the game since 1998. I'm not going to any GT because I don't do panics. I don't need one to live so when stupid starts I can easily avoid GTs. Have not stepped in one since May with the exception of doing paperwork for a handgun I sold 3 weeks ago. and have no intention to nor interest in.
However pre panic that ammo was still less than $14. About $9 a box actually. So either you were always being ripped off of they're ripping you of now, based on your opinion that it's just the gun stores raising prices
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You have to like doing it. That's for sure. Otherwise, it's never going to pay off... even in these types of markets.
Harder to save money reloading if a guy is loading to have more cheap plinking ammo but if handloading to have and maintain a stock of the more expensive stuff it pays off very quickly.
460 Rowland is a good example. You can't buy that stuff anywhere for under a dollar a round even in 'good times'.
https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/cartridge_460-rowland
Not counting the cost of the brass I can quickly and easily roll those using Gold Dots or Hornady XTP's for less than 30 cents a pop.
Reason I don't count the cost of the brass - If you don't 'lose' it somehow it will pretty much last forever. Even if you were the sort that was concerned about multiple full power loadings on the same piece of brass and chose not to venture down that road - That stuff can easily be trimmed and set aside for regular 45acp loadings after firing that full house 460 loading. At 45acp levels that stuff is going to last forever (or until you lose it).
Last year at some point Midway had 460 brass on clearance for LESS than new 45acp brass directly from Starline cost. I had plenty at the time but when brass like that goes on sale for less than what regular 45acp brass from the same manufacturer costs... My ass is buying as much as I can.
PracticalRifleman
11-12-20, 22:03
Maybe, maybe not. Who's to say components won't be taxed like that too?
I have a certain level where I feel I'm not willing to spend the money. For instance, I'm not paying my mortgage worth for ammo. Period. Even if I were a millionaire. I'm not the kind to spend money just because I have it.
On the other hand I tried reloading. Have a press, supplies and all. Took about 30 min until I lost interest and stopped focusing. Afterwards I was just forcing myself. And none of that is good.
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Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. But there is a price which people quit buying and shooting ammo. We’ve exceeded that for you in today’s market.
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PracticalRifleman
11-12-20, 22:03
Brother- before you get on a high horse, let it be known Ive lived long enough to see the goblins go after reloading components SEVERAL times, especially after 9/11.
They no more want you to be able to have that ability than they want you to own "assault rifles". Ive heard Feinstein, Schumer & others over the past decades say several times that gunpowder shouldnt be readily available to just anyone.
So, dont go thinking you are under the radar.
YOU AINT.
Not saying I am. Strictly talking ammo prices. Been at this for two decades myself.
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PracticalRifleman
11-12-20, 22:05
I picked up 3,000 primers this evening in the local sporting goods chain store.
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1_click_off
11-12-20, 22:33
Last Sunday I talked myself out of the last 2 boxes of 168gr Hornady ELD’s bullets at academy. It was still on the shelf today, so I snagged it. I may go back for the 180gr round nose this weekend if I have other reasons to go there.
So for those of you looking for ammo, or considering buying extra, would ~$650/case M193 be "reasonable" in this market? What about ~$500/case for 9mm 124gr FMJ?
So far everything I see online that is brass cased .223/5.56 (usually PMC) is going for $750-$840 per case. Brass case 9mm is at $575-$600 per case.
Ky. Gun Co., Bardstown, Ky., had several pallets of Federal 5.56 M193, albeit at $.80/round with no limits on quantity. This was last Friday (11/6).
I saw that too. Lots of Browning 9mm too. $22 a box.
turnburglar
11-13-20, 02:22
It's to the point with the election going the way that it has; I am giving up on waiting for ammo to come back down in price.
Bought 8 pounds of H335 and a Frankfort arsenal de-primer tool.
77gr SMK's are in the mail.
So for those of you looking for ammo, or considering buying extra, would ~$650/case M193 be "reasonable" in this market? What about ~$500/case for 9mm 124gr FMJ?
So far everything I see online that is brass cased .223/5.56 (usually PMC) is going for $750-$840 per case. Brass case 9mm is at $575-$600 per case.
Really depends on your current ammo stock, you need/requirements to keep shooting at a certain level, and income.
If I was out of ammo, I'd buy some (of course I'd never be out of ammo, I would stop shooting before hitting mins).
If I was rich, I'd buy some.
Otherwise right now I'm not buying any, but I have plenty.
So for those of you looking for ammo, or considering buying extra, would ~$650/case M193 be "reasonable" in this market? What about ~$500/case for 9mm 124gr FMJ?
So far everything I see online that is brass cased .223/5.56 (usually PMC) is going for $750-$840 per case. Brass case 9mm is at $575-$600 per case.If I didn't have any I would bite the bullet and stock up a little. I'm not hurting, I don't have a consistent shooting schedule due to work so I'm not consistently needing to resupply. Also, I don't look at market, I look at what I'm comfortable paying. And like I said I'm not comfortable paying the equivalent of a monthly mortgage. If I can buy two cases I can pay off my house faster! Having said that I do keep an eye on sales and I have bought ammo in the last two months when good deals popped up
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Ammo is available here locally but at inflated prices. One LGS, when I complained of the price, told me that it reflected what he was paying. I have no reason to doubt him. Wolf 9mm is affordable but inflated @ $13/50 rounds. Brass cased stuff @ $35/50 but that's a no go for me. Academy had Win green tip 5.56 @ $11/20 rounds, limit three boxes. I just buy it when I see a reasonable price and limit my shooting.
I do hope that those who are buying at inflated prices and then flipping it at stupid high prices get stuck when the supply catches up, just like those who bought standard capacity mags at inflated prices and tried to sell them after the sunset of the AWB.
After reading this thread it seems the primer shortage is the choke point.
The ammunition shortage is like everything else going on now. Difficult to pinpoint one thing. I think that we have all seen this coming for many years. Now is not the time to stock up on ammo now is the time to be stocking up on mini bottles as that will be our next currency.
Vista has a year's backlog:
“We currently have over a year’s worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,” Metz said during the Nov. 5 call. “With demand far outstripping supply and inventory levels in the channel at all-time lows, we see strong demand continuing, and this metric informs our viewpoint of what a recovery or normalization could look like.”
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/11/12/vista-outdoor-behind/
PracticalRifleman
11-13-20, 10:35
Ammo is available here locally but at inflated prices. One LGS, when I complained of the price, told me that it reflected what he was paying. I have no reason to doubt him. Wolf 9mm is affordable but inflated @ $13/50 rounds. Brass cased stuff @ $35/50 but that's a no go for me. Academy had Win green tip 5.56 @ $11/20 rounds, limit three boxes. I just buy it when I see a reasonable price and limit my shooting.
I do hope that those who are buying at inflated prices and then flipping it at stupid high prices get stuck when the supply catches up, just like those who bought standard capacity mags at inflated prices and tried to sell them after the sunset of the AWB.
After reading this thread it seems the primer shortage is the choke point.
Why would you want misfortune to happen to somebody like that? It’s supply/demand.
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Why would you want misfortune to happen to somebody like that? It’s supply/demand.
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Yes it is and I have the option of thinking what I think and not buying. I am a free market guy and I would not tell someone they can't scalp if they want to. They made a gamble and I'm making mine. There is no "misfortune" here, they still have their stuff.
Vista has a year's backlog:
“We currently have over a year’s worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,” Metz said during the Nov. 5 call. “With demand far outstripping supply and inventory levels in the channel at all-time lows, we see strong demand continuing, and this metric informs our viewpoint of what a recovery or normalization could look like.”
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/11/12/vista-outdoor-behind/
crazy
Yes it is and I have the option of thinking what I think and not buying. I am a free market guy and I would not tell someone they can't scalp if they want to. They made a gamble and I'm making mine. There is no "misfortune" here, they still have their stuff.
It's not scalping if costs are actually going up due to component scarcity. People are trying to draw a parallel to this and post-Sandy Hook. Not the same.
Same thing when N95s/3ply masks went from $0.02 to $0.80 each earlier this year. Factories couldn't make it fast enough to begin with and what they charged skyrocketed. The limited supply becomes worth more. There's no evil being behind the curtain pulling levers. Within reason, CTD is an obvious exception.
So for those of you looking for ammo, or considering buying extra, would ~$650/case M193 be "reasonable" in this market? What about ~$500/case for 9mm 124gr FMJ?
So far everything I see online that is brass cased .223/5.56 (usually PMC) is going for $750-$840 per case. Brass case 9mm is at $575-$600 per case.
Natchez had Frontier XM193 for $0.47/round (pre shipping & tax) just a few days ago. https://www.natchezss.com/hornady-frontier-rifle-ammunition-xm193-5-56mm-nato-55-gr-fmj-3240-fps-500-ct-case.html
Federal XM193 and XM855 fairly regularly come up for $0.55/round including shipping but not sales tax, but the frequency with which it appears is decreasing.
Natchez had Frontier XM193 for $0.47/round (pre shipping & tax) just a few days ago. https://www.natchezss.com/hornady-frontier-rifle-ammunition-xm193-5-56mm-nato-55-gr-fmj-3240-fps-500-ct-case.html
Federal XM193 and XM855 fairly regularly come up for $0.55/round including shipping but not sales tax, but the frequency with which it appears is decreasing.
What does fairly regularly mean? And how much stock do they get? Is it a handful of cases that sell out in minutes or like 50-100 cases? I haven't seen it pop up (searching ammoseek), not to say I couldn't have missed it though.
I've been watching Ammoseek and Ammobuy, as well as looking at Midway, Natchez, and Brownells directly. I haven't been cataloging it, but I saw XM193 at that price maybe weekly from July to September, then only two or three times in October and early November combined. I am sure I have missed many sales as they go FAST, even when there are 50 cases etc. for sites that show inventory. It's a matter of luck checking the trackers a couple of times a day if I see the sale. I have requested "Notify me" for a few products and I have observed that stock can appear and sell out without a notification ever coming.
My threshold to buy was $0.50/ea (shipping included) and I saw several sales at or below that but I never managed to get it. A couple of times it went out of stock while I was trying to place an order, and I had another order cancelled due to "inventory error." (The cancellation was Winchester 5.56 rather than Federal XM193 now that I think of it.)
Yesterday (11/12) I picked up a 200 rd box - the last one they had - of Winchester M193 for $161. Then I got their last 3 20-rd boxes of Frontier M193 for $25 each, and a 50-rd box of 124 gr. 9mm+P Law Enforcement Gold Dot for $87. it was either that or nothing. Now I don't want to practice and burn it up!
Yesterday (11/12) I picked up a 200 rd box - the last one they had - of Winchester M193 for $161. Then I got their last 3 20-rd boxes of Frontier M193 for $25 each, and a 50-rd box of 124 gr. 9mm+P Law Enforcement Gold Dot for $87. it was either that or nothing. Now I don't want to practice and burn it up!
I personally like to have ammo on hand and won't shoot up all I have.
Of course, the folks who don't suffer from Walter Mittyesque fantasies of civil war and zombies are probably comfortable shooting the ammo they have and just buying more when available.
Andy
In the last three months, I have sold 70,000 rds of 5.56 and 50,000 rds of 9mm ammo from my own stash. I am only keeping 5,000 rds of each caliber. Being 69 years young and for the price I got for it and people thanking me after buying it, I have no regrets. Also, more than a few dealers at the shows told me my prices were to low. Everyone’s situation can be a little different, and in my case, I can use a new ride. No payment plan for me, and **after** they sign off on the price, I will let them know I’ll be paying in cash. IMHO, depending on how things play out in the future politically, some things may be easier to sell now rather than later.
One thing for sure is, enjoy whatever toys you have now, because you won’t be taking any of them with you.
I would advise you guys not to buy more than the bare minimum of what you'll need at the current insane prices. Over a buck a shot for M193 is insane. I'm gonna be selling off some of my stash on GB, I'll buy up again when it's cheap again in a few years.
robstercraw
11-14-20, 19:42
People have more dollars than sense in this ridiculous panic. Just to test the market, I posted a case of 9mm Wolf. I got this crap shipped to my door all day and 2x on Sunday for $139. I just sold a case for $490. I almost felt bad....not really. Someone was gonna make that profit, why not me. I could have sold 4-5 cases at that price. So many people kept emailing me to see if it was still available I had to remove that ad.
turnburglar
11-15-20, 17:49
I think its hilarious you guys say everyone is panic buying.
I haven't been able to sell 400 rounds of 308 to save my life. Even when ammo was getting ripped off the shelves of bass pro, sitting in my truck with an IPSC target that I wrote "308" in tape on it.... nothing...
I think its hilarious you guys say everyone is panic buying.
I haven't been able to sell 400 rounds of 308 to save my life. Even when ammo was getting ripped off the shelves of bass pro, sitting in my truck with an IPSC target that I wrote "308" in tape on it.... nothing...How many people want 308? Vs 9/556? I'd probably get the same result sitting with a sign of 45-70
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70,000 rds of 5.56 and 50,000 rds of 9mm ammo from my own stash...
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.shroomery.org%2Ffiles%2F15-004%2F181902702-kim_jung_un_clapping.gif&f=1&nofb=1
lonestardiver
11-15-20, 18:35
How many people want 308? Vs 9/556? I'd probably get the same result sitting with a sign of 45-70
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Sounds like I need to load up some .458 socom, nobody has that.
Heck even 300 BO is going for crazy numbers.
Sounds like I need to load up some .458 socom, nobody has that.
Heck even 300 BO is going for crazy numbers.
Yes 300BO! probably being the second most popular AR caliber!
I don't know who has what but the most popular are 9 and 556. Followed by 300BO, 45, 38spl, 357 mag and 40sw. No one is complaining about 45gap or 38-55 or 32 winchester. Have no problem finding 9mm Steyr in more quantity and cheaper than 9x19. Maybe you need 458 socom and 9 Steyr
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How many people want 308? Vs 9/556? I'd probably get the same result sitting with a sign of 45-70
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I want some 308 as I my stash is less than other calibers but I'm not paying the crazy prices people are asking. I've gotten some recently at normal pricing but always looking for more
I want some 308 as I my stash is less than other calibers but I'm not paying the crazy prices people are asking. I've gotten some recently at normal pricing but always looking for more"some"! How much is "some"? I got rid of all my 308 rifles. Out of 40 people that I know own firearms almost all have 556 but only one has 308 and it's a hunting rifle. He has 3 boxes and those 60 rounds are enough for the next 500 years for him. On the other hand he has a few thousand 556 and asking where to get more.
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and all of that stockpile will just belong to their killers, or go up in flames with the rest of the city. Ammo's too bulky and heavy to haul much of it, and people know that they are too clumsy and lazy to risk burying much of at their BOL's. a proper cache takes several nights to arrange, spread out over a month, with lots of expensive night vision gear. So they are just jokes. What matters is skill and knowledge and very few have much of either.
and all of that stockpile will just belong to their killers, or go up in flames with the rest of the city. Ammo's too bulky and heavy to haul much of it, and people know that they are too clumsy and lazy to risk burying much of at their BOL's. a proper cache takes several nights to arrange, spread out over a month, with lots of expensive night vision gear. So they are just jokes. What matters is skill and knowledge and very few have much of either.And you have both I'm sure!
I realize that a shovel head is just as good but I'll gamble on my ammo stash
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"some"! How much is "some"? I got rid of all my 308 rifles. Out of 40 people that I know own firearms almost all have 556 but only one has 308 and it's a hunting rifle. He has 3 boxes and those 60 rounds are enough for the next 500 years for him. On the other hand he has a few thousand 556 and asking where to get more.
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HA, well I shoot quite a bit more than that. I am well supplied on all calibers but my 308 quantity is well below my others so always looking for more of it.
Straight Shooter
11-16-20, 09:15
Yes 300BO! probably being the second most popular AR caliber!
I don't know who has what but the most popular are 9 and 556. Followed by 300BO, 45, 38spl, 357 mag and 40sw. No one is complaining about 45gap or 38-55 or 32 winchester. Have no problem finding 9mm Steyr in more quantity and cheaper than 9x19. Maybe you need 458 socom and 9 Steyr
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I actually looked those up a couple days ago on SG Ammo...out of curiosity...they ALL were out then & on another website too.
I actually looked those up a couple days ago on SG Ammo...out of curiosity...they ALL were out then & on another website too.9 steyr was in stock yesterday! 38-55 is in stock now $2.50/ea
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300bo is the 2nd most popular AR round? I find that hard to believe to be honest.
300bo is the 2nd most popular AR round? I find that hard to believe to be honest."probably" key word!
After 556 what is the most popular caliber chambered in an AR15/M4?
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"probably" key word!
After 556 what is the most popular caliber chambered in an AR15/M4?
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I was thinking AR platform so you may be right. I don't know anyone shooting BO but it could be my AO (behind enemy lines in NE). I would say 22lr to be honest and that will increase in any ammo shortage. Hell, 22lr is now selling for .19/20 rd so I'd imagine more will flock to this as ammo increases in price
I was thinking AR platform so you may be right. I don't know anyone shooting BO but it could be my AO (behind enemy lines in NE). I would say 22lr to be honest and that will increase in any ammo shortage. Hell, 22lr is now selling for .19/20 rd so I'd imagine more will flock to this as ammo increases in priceOk I didn't think of 22lr, it's not a caliber I consider for anything. I guess I should say center fire
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lonestardiver
11-16-20, 10:58
.22LR is going for stupid prices as well these days, but an AR-22 is cheap fun as well as keeping you proficient on the same platform. I have a dedicated 22 upper I use for that purpose. Plus with the can, the neighbors have no clue.
Now subsonic 300BO with a can is about as quiet as a 22LR with a can. Again the neighbors would never know.
I just don’t have as many 220gr 30 cal bullets to load up and primers are also going for stupid prices.
.22LR is going for stupid prices as well these days, but an AR-22 is cheap fun as well as keeping you proficient on the same platform. I have a dedicated 22 upper I use for that purpose. Plus with the can, the neighbors have no clue.
Now subsonic 300BO with a can is about as quiet as a 22LR with a can. Again the neighbors would never know.
I just don’t have as many 220gr 30 cal bullets to load up and primers are also going for stupid prices.
agree but if you think about it, more people will cheapen their training and use 22lr which will drive up costs. I'm pretty sure that manufacturers are running 100% right now but pricing is getting crazy
Straight Shooter
11-16-20, 12:25
9 steyr was in stock yesterday! 38-55 is in stock now $2.50/ea
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The 9mm Stryr I did not look up...but the 38-55 was out, as well as 45GAP & almost all other oddballs.
Yes 300BO! probably being the second most popular AR caliber!
I don't know who has what but the most popular are 9 and 556. Followed by 300BO, 45, 38spl, 357 mag and 40sw. No one is complaining about 45gap or 38-55 or 32 winchester. Have no problem finding 9mm Steyr in more quantity and cheaper than 9x19. Maybe you need 458 socom and 9 Steyr
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Actually I could use some more. 32 Winchester special. That stuff is hard to find even when there ISN'T a panic happening
My shooting range got some 9mm in, selling for a cool $75 / box of 50. Thats just insane.
PB
Mr McSimon
11-16-20, 14:40
My shooting range got some 9mm in, selling for a cool $75 / box of 50. Thats just insane.
PB
Almost $50 to run 2 magazines. That is insane.
Renegade04
11-16-20, 14:42
I have to say this, I am so glad that I started stocking ammo 15 years ago. I bought a lot when it was cheap and that includes 9mm, 45ACP, 40S&W, .223REM, 5.56 NATO (M193 and M855), 7.62x39, 7.62x51 (various types), and 7.62x63 (M2 Ball and some AP-M2). I even have a bit of .30 Carbine, but I do not shoot much of this at all. A lot of my 115 gr. 9mm (WWB) was bought for $2.99 box (50 rounds). I am sitting nicely on ammo and I am in no way affected by this latest frenzy and shortage. I wish that more had taken the opportunity to do the same. Unfortunately, many did not have a chance as they are recent buyers and have come into this very late in the game. These are the ones who will be left without or with very little. What ammo they can find is hitting their wallets pretty hard. Quite frankly, I do not see this shortage going away anytime soon. Until President Trump is declared president again, ammo will continue to be very scarce. If by some reason, Biden is confirmed the winner, then, in my opinion, you can expect the shortage to last for a long time as people will buy up ammo as quick as it hit the shelves. If this COVID-19 crap goes away in a few months like Fauci thinks it will (taken with a grain of salt), then we may see an increase in production, but there are billions of dollars in ammo backorders that still have to be filled. I would venture to say that ammo prices will remain high for quite a while due to an ongoing supply and demand issue.
HA, well I shoot quite a bit more than that. I am well supplied on all calibers but my 308 quantity is well below my others so always looking for more of it.I buy m80 type 762X51 when I can find it 60 or 70 cents a round or less.
But $1.25/round for junk full metal jacket ammo? No thanks, I just convert back to reloading.
I have plenty of powder and primers. And even can still get FMJ bullets pretty cheaply. Enough that I can reload for under $0.30 a round. (But not as cheap as it used to be)
Yes 300BO! probably being the second most popular AR caliber!
Not around my area, I often saw 300 blackout sit while Grendel and SPC sell out.
Same place has 300 BO AR barrels essentially half price while they're selling their regular barrels at full price or higher. Just not moving
Lately everything sells out. Especially cheap plinking ammo. Though you can get $2-3 a shot hunting ammo in just about every caliber at will.
Local AR place got in some cases of steel case Grendel. Was not scalping it, but also not as cheap as it was pre-run up. Maybe 10 to 15% higher than normal. Five box limit and it was sold out in two days.
Early on I saw pallets of brass blazer 9 mm sell out in a couple of days at $16 a box. So the next pallets of WWB were at $36 a box. And sold out and not much longer than that.
I've seen new shooters (clearly) with brand new 9 mm and 40s pay $40-50 for the little 20 round boxes of defense ammo and bought multiple.
My shooting range got some 9mm in, selling for a cool $75 / box of 50. Thats just insane.
PB
I wouldn't frequent that range again. That's criminal!
Not around my area, I often saw 300 blackout sit while Grendel and SPC sell out.
Same place has 300 BO AR barrels essentially half price while they're selling their regular barrels at full price or higher. Just not moving
Lately everything sells out. Especially cheap plinking ammo. Though you can get $2-3 a shot hunting ammo in just about every caliber at will.
Local AR place got in some cases of steel case Grendel. Was not scalping it, but also not as cheap as it was pre-run up. Maybe 10 to 15% higher than normal. Five box limit and it was sold out in two days.
Early on I saw pallets of brass blazer 9 mm sell out in a couple of days at $16 a box. So the next pallets of WWB were at $36 a box. And sold out and not much longer than that.
I've seen new shooters (clearly) with brand new 9 mm and 40s pay $40-50 for the little 20 round boxes of defense ammo and bought multiple.I'm not talking about any one particular zip code. If that's the case then based on my friend's area 556 was a never has. That area is all 30-30, 30-06, 270... Doesn't change the fact that 556 probably sells more than those 3 combined
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I buy m80 type 762X51 when I can find it 60 or 70 cents a round or less.
But $1.25/round for junk full metal jacket ammo? No thanks, I just convert back to reloading.
I have plenty of powder and primers. And even can still get FMJ bullets pretty cheaply. Enough that I can reload for under $0.30 a round. (But not as cheap as it used to be)
agree but I need to start reloading. I know I know, I should know better but better late than never. I want to set up for 9, 38/357, 5.56 and 308. I'll get started eventually but feel stupid for not doing sooner
My shooting range got some 9mm in, selling for a cool $75 / box of 50. Thats just insane.
Federal has it for $23 (limit 2 boxes). https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/american-eagle/american-eagle-handgun/11-AE9AP.html
I felt like a chump when I paid $20 for some practice ammo; I can't even imagine how I'd feel paying $75.
El Vaquero
11-16-20, 21:07
As crazy as this ammo pandemic is I still see a ton of folks at the public ranges lately. Why the heck is that??
As crazy as this ammo pandemic is I still see a ton of folks at the public ranges lately. Why the heck is that??
They didn't wait too long to buy practice ammo?
As crazy as this ammo pandemic is I still see a ton of folks at the public ranges lately. Why the heck is that??
People who plan ahead..?
I’ve still been shooting at least weekly but I’ve been strictly rationing. Basically I’m afraid I’ll start to slip if I don’t continue to shoot on a regular basis, and I don’t feel like I can afford to do that, particularly with handgun, which is where I’m the weakest in terms of skill.
Federal has it for $23 (limit 2 boxes). https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/american-eagle/american-eagle-handgun/11-AE9AP.html
I felt like a chump when I paid $20 for some practice ammo; I can't even imagine how I'd feel paying $75.
Way they keep it in stock, I guess.
I'm sympathetic to those who have just aged into the hobby or are otherwise new. Also for those who are pretty casual about it or not connected to a community to teach them the way. We should be helping them out and leading the way. They're not high volume consumers and don't need much to help make a difference. Please take these people to the range, show them how to do more with less and prepare for the future.
For those who were around for past droughts, elections, especially those who were around for the AWB, and chose poorly, they are where they are.
Federal XM193BK just sold out in minutes for $0.80/ea at PSA. TulAmmo is selling for $0.55 at Midway. $0.75 for X-TAC is the best I can find today:
https://www.rainierarms.com/pmc-ammunition-x-tac-5-56mm-55gr-fmjbt-ammunition-1000rd-case/
Just noting the change since election day, up to which I was seeing XM193 for $0.55.
Red the Monkey
11-17-20, 16:47
You have to be pretty quick to get ammo when it hits the store in Kansas. Reloading or trying to reload right now it’s just a nightmare not worth it.
El Vaquero
11-17-20, 20:49
People who plan ahead..?
That’s a heck of a lot of people who plan ahead then. Must be a lot of smart people out there. Haha
That’s a heck of a lot of people who plan ahead then. Must be a lot of smart people out there. HahaAbsolutely, ammo lasts for decades when properly stored... So we stocked up when prices were low...
PracticalRifleman
11-17-20, 21:06
That’s a heck of a lot of people who plan ahead then. Must be a lot of smart people out there. Haha
Between calibers I have around at 60,000 rounds. I have planned ahead enough loading components for another 40,000-50,000 rounds in anticipation of such an event. USPSA was a slow season due to restrictions early on. I didn’t do my regular practice schedule due to work...I typically shoot 30-40,000 rounds per year between carbine and handgun along with a few thousand of bolt-action.
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You have to be pretty quick to get ammo when it hits the store in Kansas. Reloading or trying to reload right now it’s just a nightmare not worth it.
Pretty much the opposite.
As factory fodder becomes more and more expensive reloading and making BETTER ammo becomes even MORE worth it.
If you want more ammo you have to 'be pretty quick when (and if) it hits the stores'.
All I have to do is go make / assemble whatever I want, whenever I want more.
El Vaquero
11-17-20, 21:30
Between calibers I have around at 60,000 rounds. I have planned ahead enough loading components for another 40,000-50,000 rounds in anticipation of such an event. USPSA was a slow season due to restrictions early on. I didn’t do my regular practice schedule due to work...I typically shoot 30-40,000 rounds per year between carbine and handgun along with a few thousand of bolt-action.
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You sir, are not of one the folks that are at these public ranges, lol. I was referring to all the folks jam packing the public ranges during this ammo pandemic that are not your competition shooters or ammo preppers. They’re just regular folks going to get their shoot on.
That’s a heck of a lot of people who plan ahead then. Must be a lot of smart people out there. Haha
Or it's the chuds who bought an AR15 and 200rds, then only shot the first 30-50 rds before putting it up in the closet for years. So they are 'flush with ammo' from when they first bought it.
Plenty of non-shooters are ignorant to the ammo shortage; my FIL has been taking the last year pretty light on shooting and had absolutely no idea that ammo / components are scarce. He's find for what he does - I.e. finger bang his AR-15 2-3 times a year with a couple mags of ammo and shoot his handguns about the same. But he needed some 00 Buck for hunting and I gave him some older leftover 5-rd packs I had on hand since it was unlikely he'd find any at the store.
Straight Shooter
11-18-20, 07:32
Or it's the chuds who bought an AR15 and 200rds, then only shot the first 30-50 rds before putting it up in the closet for years. So they are 'flush with ammo' from when they first bought it.
Plenty of non-shooters are ignorant to the ammo shortage; my FIL has been taking the last year pretty light on shooting and had absolutely no idea that ammo / components are scarce. He's find for what he does - I.e. finger bang his AR-15 2-3 times a year with a couple mags of ammo and shoot his handguns about the same. But he needed some 00 Buck for hunting and I gave him some older leftover 5-rd packs I had on hand since it was unlikely he'd find any at the store.
RHINOWSO-I dont know your AO..but Ive been buying 15 round packs of Federal 1330fps OO buck at Wallyworld lately...they always have a few. Its $13 bucks & change & tax. Good stuff for you & your Pop. Just an fyi.
You sir, are not of one the folks that are at these public ranges, lol. I was referring to all the folks jam packing the public ranges during this ammo pandemic that are not your competition shooters or ammo preppers. They’re just regular folks going to get their shoot on.
I have been suprised at the number of shooters at the nearby public range. I'm pretty sure they have not stacked ammo deep, unless they were stacking and never shooting.
Andy
man based on some comments, some of you are heeeeeeavy operators. lol biggest mouths usually shoot far less than they they do or got chips on shoulders from those weekend warrior classes.
who cares how much someone shoots, drop the derogitive names and be grateful they shoot at all vs not shoot and support gun control. More gun owners and more shooters is a good thing. Gallop just released yesterday saw support for gun control drop by it's widest margin ever (7pts) yr over yr. This is good, let them shoot 10 shots a yr like some cops I know, who cares
I haven't shot in a while. All ranges here are packed. Long waiting lines and I'm not one to stand in line for anything
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I haven't shot in a while. All ranges here are packed. Long waiting lines and I'm not one to stand in line for anything
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well if you ever want to shoot on the weekend here in NJ (central, just let me know and I'll guest you at my club.
I'm with you, I'm not waiting either
PracticalRifleman
11-18-20, 08:55
I haven't shot in a while. All ranges here are packed. Long waiting lines and I'm not one to stand in line for anything
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Around here the ranges are busy with hunters zeroing their hunting rifles but it’s not as busy as most years. Some hunting ammunition is in short supply and fewer rounds are being slung. But I will say, there’s a few thousand acres adjoining our place and there are more hunters than I’ve ever seen this year.
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Around here the ranges are busy with hunters zeroing their hunting rifles but it’s not as busy as most years. Some hunting ammunition is in short supply and fewer rounds are being slung. But I will say, there’s a few thousand acres adjoining our place and there are more hunters than I’ve ever seen this year.
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robbins290
11-18-20, 09:09
RHINOWSO-I dont know your AO..but Ive been buying 15 round packs of Federal 1330fps OO buck at Wallyworld lately...they always have a few. Its $13 bucks & change & tax. Good stuff for you & your Pop. Just an fyi.
FYI, that stuff has a rebate right now.
https://winchester.com/Rebates/2020-Slug-and-Buck-Rebate
El Vaquero
11-18-20, 11:00
man based on some comments, some of you are heeeeeeavy operators. lol biggest mouths usually shoot far less than they they do or got chips on shoulders from those weekend warrior classes.
who cares how much someone shoots, drop the derogitive names and be grateful they shoot at all vs not shoot and support gun control. More gun owners and more shooters is a good thing. Gallop just released yesterday saw support for gun control drop by it's widest margin ever (7pts) yr over yr. This is good, let them shoot 10 shots a yr like some cops I know, who cares
I don’t think anyone is getting carried away. It’s just funny observations. It’s kinda like if there was a gasoline shortage and suddenly a bunch of oblivious folks deciding to go on road trips.
But you’re right. The more folks discover the joys of firearms and shooting the better!!
turnburglar
11-18-20, 11:11
I saw winchester 193 at my local bass pro. The funny thing was they where not even putting it on the shelves. It was just sitting in a cart near the ammo shelves. They wanted $81 after tax for the 150 round bulk pack.
Also my local ranges are packed. Not just the regular hunters either. Lots of new shooters with handguns.
robbins290
11-18-20, 12:29
Don't quote SPAM!!
~Voodoochild~
man based on some comments, some of you are heeeeeeavy operators. lol biggest mouths usually shoot far less than they they do or got chips on shoulders from those weekend warrior classes.
who cares how much someone shoots, drop the derogitive names and be grateful they shoot at all vs not shoot and support gun control. More gun owners and more shooters is a good thing. Gallop just released yesterday saw support for gun control drop by it's widest margin ever (7pts) yr over yr. This is good, let them shoot 10 shots a yr like some cops I know, who cares
This 100% over the last year I've seen more and more new shooters coming out to the pit I frequent. To the point where it's damn near crowded sometimes. It can be annoying but it also makes me glad that the gun culture is alive and well and is spreading to new people, this is what we need to keep the 2nd alive. I've also met a lot of cool people there and gotten to check out a lot of different guns.
RHINOWSO-I dont know your AO..but Ive been buying 15 round packs of Federal 1330fps OO buck at Wallyworld lately...they always have a few. Its $13 bucks & change & tax. Good stuff for you & your Pop. Just an fyi.
Thanks - I rarely shoot shotguns and have a couple hundred rounds of Federal 00 buck for Mossbergs and a bunch of birdshot from Wallyworld - they are primarily for the cannon fodder who show up if the shit hits the fan or trade fodder if the ammo shortage hits that stuff.
This 100% over the last year I've seen more and more new shooters coming out to the pit I frequent. To the point where it's damn near crowded sometimes. It can be annoying but it also makes me glad that the gun culture is alive and well and is spreading to new people, this is what we need to keep the 2nd alive. I've also met a lot of cool people there and gotten to check out a lot of different guns.
amen to that
It's from panics. Mostly from seasoned owners. When you have 20k rounds do you say that enough or do you say 1k more can't hurt?! Add to that guys who can spend $30k without batting an eye and there goes your smmo
$30K for 20K rounds? Uh no, even now, unless you are buying all match or Mk262 one box at a time. Recheck your math. At .70/round 20k rounds would be $14k. That's more than double what I paid, because I've been stacking for a few years. I always buy in bulk when possible too. You just have to buy more than you shoot when its cheap.
Here's 280,000 rounds of 5.56. You can only buy 600 at a time at an inflated price however.
https://www.2awarehouse.com/winchester-5-56x45mm-m193-55gr-fmj-lake-city-brass-600-rounds/
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-d9pniirpyu/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/122398/160973/20201109_0756131__13315.1605123406.jpg?c=2?imbypass=on
That's what? 14,000 rounds per barrel? A $1 per round for M193 is pretty steep. I don't think I ever paid more than $.34/Round for M193 or M855.
$30K for 20K rounds? Uh no, even now, unless you are buying all match or Mk262 one box at a time. Recheck your math. At .70/round 20k rounds would be $14k. That's more than double what I paid, because I've been stacking for a few years. I always buy in bulk when possible too. You just have to buy more than you shoot when its cheap.
You're combining two examples I gave into one.
Example A. Guys who ALREADY have 20k rounds and will buy more.
Example B. Guys who can afford to drop $30k on ammo.
Sometimes they're the guys but that's besides the point
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I saw 150 rounds of Winchester Super X 3" 00 buck sell for $655 on GB today. Over $4/shell.
99cobra2881
11-20-20, 07:30
Local place here got in a pallet of loose pack boxes of 1000 Federal m855 hes selling it for $750.
What I can’t get over is that would be $21 per 30 round magazine.
I download to 28 in all my mags for the arfdotcom math whizzes that seem to be circling this thread.
All I’ve been doing is a little load development and that is it. I’m sitting on what I have. Scheels had 20,000 cci #41 in may. I kick myself I didn’t buy them all right then.
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1859sharps
11-21-20, 14:28
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/
ViperTwoSix
11-22-20, 17:34
Ranges are probably packed with new shooters. There isn’t just an ammo shortage, there is a firearm shortage as well. My local store can’t keep any ARs, AKs, Glocks, or much of anything else other than some foreign brands on the shelves. Lots of new gun owners means lots of people that need to learn how to shoot, and shoot accurately. It’s a good thing. Plus for any reloaders, might be a good time to grab free once-fired brass (if the range doesn’t use it themselves).
Ranges are probably packed with new shooters. There isn’t just an ammo shortage, there is a firearm shortage as well. My local store can’t keep any ARs, AKs, Glocks, or much of anything else other than some foreign brands on the shelves. Lots of new gun owners means lots of people that need to learn how to shoot, and shoot accurately. It’s a good thing. Plus for any reloaders, might be a good time to grab free once-fired brass (if the range doesn’t use it themselves).New shooters definitely a good thing. I'm just not seeing that anywhere. All the ranges here ....packed ...but very few new people unless most of those new people are buying multiple rifles and pelican cases . Coming in with all kinds of molon lane patches on their tactical backpacks, all 5.11 Oakley'd out with beards like they were deep in A-stan noman's land surviving on their wits and a pocket knife ....etc... I'm sure there are new shooters mixed in but it's not the norm
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I like the patch that says "Some Days I Border On Competent" :D
been hitting the local ranges, have collected 1 5 gallon bucket of 556 and 1 5 gallon 9mm brass. thank you to all the non reloading shooters and police
been hitting the local ranges, have collected 1 5 gallon bucket of 556 and 1 5 gallon 9mm brass. thank you to all the non reloading shooters and police
Right, the only time I've paid for brass was when I started reloading .38 super auto. Now if I can prevail upon my fellow shooter to buy more .38 super pistols, buy .38 SA ammo and then leave the brass on the ground for me.....
Report from my AO: The supply of guns, all types, is excellent. Pretty much whatever you want, including used guns, are available. Prices don't seem to have changed either. The ammo supply is, IMO, not good. Yes, it's there, 9mm and 5.56 too but at stupid high prices. $35+ for 50 rounds brass cased 9mm. I have gotten steel cased 9mm for $12/50 but availability is inconsistent . 5.56 brass cased is running around $15/20 . 5.56/.223 steel case is cheaper and when I can find it I use it for the short ranges stages during 2 gun matches.
Just buying what I need for training, i.e., checking zero... and matches.
Has anybody seen any stock on Horandy TAP or any other defensive round? I've been looking for Mk262 too and I have a feeling thats going to be gone for a while.
Has anybody seen any stock on Horandy TAP or any other defensive round? I've been looking for Mk262 too and I have a feeling thats going to be gone for a while.
There was this but it's out of stock now.
Back in stock. Speer Gold Dot .223 Rem 75 grain, $526 per carton of 500. https://www.velocityammosales.com/products/223-rem-speer-gold-dot-le-75-gr-sp-self-defense-case
This place is running backorders on Black Hills 77 grain. https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/black-hills-ammo-mil-pack-5-point-56-77-grain-mk?avad=74383_f1e5f1845&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_campaign=56335&cid=aff_74383
LGS has a pallet of American Eagle 5.56 or .223 @ $14 per 20, limit of 3 per customer. I said "hmmm" and walked by. 22 lr is available but laughably priced.
Andy
been hitting the local ranges, have collected 1 5 gallon bucket of 556 and 1 5 gallon 9mm brass. thank you to all the non reloading shooters and police
I have enough brass to Scrooge McDuck in a large Jacuzzi, but primers are getting precious. Obviously, I’m still walking off the range with more brass than I brought when I go to indoor ranges.
LGS has a pallet of American Eagle 5.56 or .223 @ $14 per 20, limit of 3 per customer. I said "hmmm" and walked by. 22 lr is available but laughably priced.
Andy
At 70cents per round, Screw that. I would have kept walking as well. Would have to have nothing here before being willing to pay those prices...
That being said - My 'good' son is in Reno, Nevada and told me this morning that everything is pretty much gone at the bigger places except for stuff like .338 L. Said that even ALL of the shotgun ammo was gone no matter the gauge. He has never seen it get so bad that even the shotgun ammo was unobtainium locally.
This finally forced him to go down the reloading road and get his stuff in order so that he can roll his own. Have spent years trying to get him interested with little to no progress but this finally did it for him. He ordered the press kit that he wanted and found a friend that hooked him up with his well stocked reloader dad to get him his first box of a thousand rifle primers. Son paid a hundred bucks for those primers... While that is high as hell for primers - I am thinking that in this current climate he got lucky only having to pay that much for them. Kid also laid in a good order for bullets and got that sorted out for now.
Once that kid dials in a load or two that his rifle / rifles really like and sees the difference for himself with HIS firearms and the ammo the HE made - He is going to be hooked. :)
Now that he is willing to throw some of his money into it - I plan to help him out and toss some of mine into his new hobby as well. Not a waste if the kid is actually 'using' the stuff...
PracticalRifleman
11-29-20, 12:12
At 70cents per round, Screw that. I would have kept walking as well. Would have to have nothing here before being willing to pay those prices...
That being said - My 'good' son is in Reno, Nevada and told me this morning that everything is pretty much gone at the bigger places except for stuff like .338 L. Said that even ALL of the shotgun ammo was gone no matter the gauge. He has never seen it get so bad that even the shotgun ammo was unobtainium locally.
This finally forced him to go down the reloading road and get his stuff in order so that he can roll his own. Have spent years trying to get him interested with little to no progress but this finally did it for him. He ordered the press kit that he wanted and found a friend that hooked him up with his well stocked reloader dad to get him his first box of a thousand rifle primers. Son paid a hundred bucks for those primers... While that is high as hell for primers - I am thinking that in this current climate he got lucky only having to pay that much for them. Kid also laid in a good order for bullets and got that sorted out for now.
Once that kid dials in a load or two that his rifle / rifles really like and sees the difference for himself with HIS firearms and the ammo the HE made - He is going to be hooked. :)
Now that he is willing to throw some of his money into it - I plan to help him out and toss some of mine into his new hobby as well. Not a waste if the kid is actually 'using' the stuff...
Paying $100/1000 for primers, $25/100 for bullets, and $35/lb for powder would put a guy around $0.50/round for .223 Rem plus you provide the brass and time. While $0.70 seems high (and it is), inflated reloading component costs makes it more palatable for the unprepared.
It’s wise to stock-up on components during the good times. I try to stay fairly stocked, but I’m hearing some industry people talking two years for inventory to catch back up. That puts my 2022 match shooting schedule in jeopardy as well stocked as I am. Panic will only make it worse.
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Paying $100/1000 for primers, $25/100 for bullets, and $35/lb for powder would put a guy around $0.50/round for .223 Rem plus you provide the brass and time. While $0.70 seems high (and it is), inflated reloading component costs makes it more palatable for the unprepared.
Kid is making 7.62 x 54 R for his Nagant. Already has a ton of brass so his savings are a tiny bit better than what he would save over making .223 fodder.
Diamondback
11-30-20, 00:52
It’s wise to stock-up on components during the good times. I try to stay fairly stocked, but I’m hearing some industry people talking two years for inventory to catch back up. That puts my 2022 match shooting schedule in jeopardy as well stocked as I am. Panic will only make it worse.
Right now version I hear is that Vista alone is at a one-year, billion-dollar order backlog.
Brownells has Winchester M855 in stock at $0.53 a round, before shipping and discounts. If you want it hurry. https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/5-56mm-nato-62gr-full-metal-jacket-200-box-sku105004041-137907-251192.aspx
Use code SAE for $15 off $150 or more.
AND it's gone.
tanksoldier
12-01-20, 12:35
AND it's gone.
When they are sold out of everything .223 or 5.56... including Wolf... shizt gettin' real.
m1a_scoutguy
12-01-20, 16:19
This mite help for you reloader guys ! I got my 4K yesterday ! Good for blamo-ammo ! https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/913?
Yes it is and to late for regrets....
Can get it around here but jeezaloo it's expensive.
5.56 WWB, 200 rds., $230 + sales tax.
115 gr. 9mm, WWB, 100 rds., $105.
That's like a dollar bill every time you pull the trigger. Cripes. Hunting ammo's even worse. Plain 150 gr. 30-30 ammo, 20 rd. box, $120. Price gouging, of course. You can find it online at regular prices, but it's out of stock indefinitely.
m1a_scoutguy
12-04-20, 17:51
It must of been 556/Green Tip ammo day on Thursday @ Bass Pro ! I talked with a buddy @ work today (NY) and he bought a bunch yesterday. I talked with my cousin in Atlanta GA and he bought 5 box's yesterday, both were $11.99 a box ! There was a limit of 5 in GA so thats all my Cousin bought and he is a new gun guy so he figured that was enough at that price. My work buddy said he brought like 20 box's to the counter and he would pay for 2 take it out to his car and then just come back through the line & the casher would pull out to more box's & repeat,LOL Said it took him a hour to get all he got !! Trying times I must say !!
I am just glad I was prudent during the "salad days" and stocked up. Barring a full-on Iwo Jima or such I should be GTG for quite a while.
Meh. Have what I have. I can't print money or manufacture ammo! Besides, with gun stores and ranges being packed I'm not one to wait in line for anything so I don't see myself doing much shooting any time soon
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m1a_scoutguy
12-04-20, 19:08
I am just glad I was prudent during the "salad days" and stocked up. Barring a full-on Iwo Jima or such I should be GTG for quite a while.
That's what I'm talking about,LOL ! I should be good myself and I do shoot a fair amount. I cut back on rifle in the Winter but do a lot of handgun shooting in the cold months indoors ! I do reload so I have no concerns for the foreseeable future,,"but" with that said,I'm always scouring the net for deals & depending on where ya look there are a few still kicking around ! That's reloading stuff not factory Ammo ! But I have no "secret" spot for primers as I'm sure no one does ! But then I'm good with those also.
1_click_off
12-04-20, 19:29
https://x-reload.com/cci-primer-br4-small-rifle-b-r-100-box.html
BR4 in stock here at $10 a 100, only catch is it requires a PAL number to check out....
m1a_scoutguy
12-04-20, 19:52
https://x-reload.com/cci-primer-br4-small-rifle-b-r-100-box.html
BR4 in stock here at $10 a 100, only catch is it requires a PAL number to check out....
LOL,what the hell is a PAL # ?? I did a quick google thing and its something about owning guns in Canada !! And I don't need SRP but just curious about this. :confused:
1_click_off
12-04-20, 20:14
LOL,what the hell is a PAL # ?? I did a quick google thing and its something about owning guns in Canada !! And I don't need SRP but just curious about this. :confused:
I thought it was a joke for a Permissive Action Link before I realized this was a site from Canada.....
https://x-reload.com/cci-primer-br4-small-rifle-b-r-100-box.html
BR4 in stock here at $10 a 100, only catch is it requires a PAL number to check out....
The Canuck places had cci 41s in stock for a long time, now most are out and they won’t ship to conus.
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Pacific5th
12-11-20, 11:45
Seen 223/556 locally in two place in the last week. In Wenatchee WA a store had PMC 62g for 13.99. I found Federal 55g for 14.99 in Pasco WA. I passed on both.
chamber143
12-15-20, 19:33
Why is 556 ammo so expensive?
because you sir are hoarding it all.
chamber143
12-15-20, 19:36
LOL,what the hell is a PAL # ?? I did a quick google thing and its something about owning guns in Canada !! And I don't need SRP but just curious about this. :confused:
This is going to be some of the same bullshit we will have to go through after 8 years of heels up Harris. You have a hard time disarming people, so you just make it so aggravating and make you jump through so many hoops, that you in essence disarm people
Why is 556 ammo so expensive?
Supply is low.
Demand is beyond high.
Price goes up to match.
Why is 556 ammo so expensive?Spam
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Supply is low.
Demand is beyond high.
Price goes up to match.
Economics 101
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1_click_off
12-21-20, 17:18
Guess everyone’s credit cards must be maxing out as SGammo seems to have some stock now. Expensive, but available.
Nah, it's just an adjustment phase - supply has caught up, some demand has been met, and price increases will stagnate along with the amount selling.
Nah, it's just an adjustment phase - supply has caught up, some demand has been met, and price increases will stagnate along with the amount selling.
Curious, what makes you say supply has caught up?
I figured there would be a lull around Christmas since money is going toward other stuff but that’s a demand factor, not so much supply. What do you think will happen if/when ole sleepy Joe is confirmed?
Nah, it's just an adjustment phase - supply has caught up, some demand has been met, and price increases will stagnate along with the amount selling.
I'll be the first to call BS on that one.
No way you can have as many new gun owners as we saw last year and have the ammo 'supply' catch up that fast. Add in the Biden ****tor coming very soon now and hell no...
I'll be the first to call BS on that one.
No way you can have as many new gun owners as we saw last year and have the ammo 'supply' catch up that fast. Add in the Biden ****tor coming very soon now and hell no...Sure you can. At least it's possible. I know several new gun owners and all thought 2 boxes was pushing it. Why would 50 rounds not be enough. One relative who bought a Charter Arms 38spl asked for some ammo. I gave him a box or GD and he only wanted 6!!! Six chambers, six rounds!
One guy at work was showing off pics his few handguns and 3 boxes of ammo. He's since bought more guns but not more ammo!!!! Brand new DD pistol AR and another on layaway yet not one round of 223/556. None of these people bought extra mags. Not one!
Very few new shooters buy a gun, 2 dozen mags and a case of ammo to start.
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Not what Federal Ammo says....:stop: :meeting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIgvoJKovIg
Not what Federal Ammo says....:stop: :meeting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIgvoJKovIg
Exactly...
Those guys are working their asses off to just catch up. If they had reasonable 'expectations' that they would be 'caught up' to the demand in a few months time they would NOT be posting videos like this.
Well some of my local stores are starting to see more ammo, less purchases and starting to take off or extend limits so ammo is becoming more available and less people are buying. This doesn't mean they have 29 different flavors of one caliber stacked floor to ceiling. But walking in I can buy 9mm at $0.50
Of course the factories are working overtime. You may only care about a few calibers but they have to restock the whole country with what? At least a dozen different calibers?!?
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Well some of my local stores are starting to see more ammo, less purchases and starting to take off or extend limits so ammo is becoming more available and less people are buying. This doesn't mean they have 29 different flavors of one caliber stacked floor to ceiling. But walking in I can buy 9mm at $0.50
Of course the factories are working overtime. You may only care about a few calibers but they have to restock the whole country with what? At least a dozen different calibers?!?
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That’s encouraging, I have not seen this yet in AZ, but I did see a pile of 10mm, box of 20 for $12.00. I was like damn.
PB
tanksoldier
12-22-20, 18:14
. Sure you can. At least it's possible. I know several new gun owners and all thought 2 boxes was pushing it. Why would 50 rounds not be enough.
Even if each of those new gun owners only bought 50 rounds, that’s 350mil more rounds than normal... and ammo sales are always up in an election year anyway.
Even if each of those new gun owners only bought 50 rounds, that’s 350mil more rounds than normal... and ammo sales are always up in an election year anyway.How many new owners are there? A sale doesn't mean a new owner
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Occam's razor suggests not to attribute to conspiracy what is explained more simply by other things. Election+BLM+COVID= panic. It really is that simple.
Part of us wants to put our thumb the scale because such a simple explanation doesn't seem enough to explain such a drastic shortage. Yet it really is that simple.
Hammer and anvil. The hammer of massive demand spikes (election, riots, etc) met the anvil of supply constraints (COVID). It's not just US makers that were hit by COVID, but overseas primer makers also were hit and there aren't really any imported primers making their way into the USA. And primers are being diverted to making ammo instead of catering to Handloaders like me. (I'm good with my present stash, but will be in conservation mode next year).
Finally, a note on "gouging"-- try to get past the gouging and recognize it for what it is: markets trying to clear. And remember, markets won't clear unless both participants to a transaction feel better off from it. My bro moved to Louisiana immediately after Katrina/Rita in 2005. Gas was $8/gal or more in some locations. Ripoff? Well, I suppose. But try running your generators or chainsaws and other recovery equipment without it when your entire infrastructure for delivering it is destroyed. Those "ripoff" prices causes a flood of gas to come in from out of state locations and deliver the sorely needed fuel for generators and chainsaws. And if someone well-intentioned tried to "protect" those people as they recovered? Gas shortages for months instead of weeks. Completely counterproductive.
What would you pay for gas if it was the difference between power and no power? Moving or stranded? Passable vs impassable roads? More than $5/gal?
Those speculators that came down with trailers full of gas cans were hoping to make a buck, yes. But in doing so, they delivered a sorely needed product to those who, absent that price incentive, would never expect to receive it nearly to the extent needed.
The net result was less suffering because the high price was allowed to do its job and stimulate supply.
The difference with the ammo market today is that supply can't keep up. It's as stimulated as it can be. Only more capacity (more plants and production, or more imports) can relieve such elevated demand. Only with COVID, even importing really isn't an option because foreign sources that would love to export to the US to take advantage of our desperation (aspiring "cheaper than dirt" understudies perhaps) aren't able to send anything here-- they were also at limited capacity. And since supply can't keep up, prices rise due to the constant and you have something like a stock market bubble-- where it goes up tomorrow because it went up today (the opposite of what classical economics teaches, and the evidence of the fundamental flaw--homo economicus-- in all of modern economic theory.
Once inauguration day passes and it turns out to be like Y2K and a non-event in terms of civil unrest, you will see demand level off a bit. Which means shelves will slowly start to keep some stock, even at elevated prices.
The best way to end this panic and get things back to normal ASAP is for retailers to raise their prices high AND to limit the quantity people can buy. This discourages consumption by eliminating the secondary market (i.e., the guys buying the whole pallet out and flipping it at a gun show). The high price and qty limits help keep ammo on the shelf a bit longer. This is critical because of the psychology of panic buying. If the ammo is flying off the shelf, you have a "gotta get mine" attitude and are more likely to pay that elevated price. But if you can go back the next day and still get some? Less likely not only to pay the higher price but to buy at all.
Read up on the psychology of bank runs-- it is EXACTLY the same as the psychology of ammo panics. The best way to end a bank run? Slow down the rate at which people can take money out and assure everyone that they will ALL get their money and there's plenty to ensure nobody will be left high and dry. Once everyone realizes they will get their money, the run will end.
And just like the housing bubble of 2005-07, prices will rise farther and farther until the market clears. And then they will free-fall a bit, then slow grind downward from there. And you'll have brass case like M193 under 40c/rd and widely available again. Maybe not next year, but I expect the market will top out next year and have a short free fall and then maybe in 2022 a slow grind towards normal or perhaps even slightly less after 2024.
The shortage will end long before pricing comes back. Just like the 22LR panic of a couple years ago. You'll see the equivalent of $60 thunderbolt bricks and there will be no shortage. It was about 18 months from 22LR panic peak to reasonable pricing. I won a bet with a coworker who swore <$30 bricks would never return. I told him they' be back and in less than 24 months.
Hang tight. This too shall pass. Not as long as the doomsayers, but it will take some time.
PracticalRifleman
12-22-20, 21:21
Anybody around in ‘08 and ‘12 shouldn’t be surprised by this and jumping to conclusions.
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Just about the time ammo starts to show back up, we give everyone in the US $600 to blow :(
Just about the time ammo starts to show back up, we give everyone in the US $600 to blow :(Doesn't get you much this time around!
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tanksoldier
12-22-20, 22:37
Just about the time ammo starts to show back up, we give everyone in the US $600 to blow :(
...and the rest of the world $37bil....
Once everyone realizes they will get their money, the run will end.
...unless people are students of history and know that people haven’t gotten their money in the past.
...and also realize governments have banned, confiscated and searched for weapons and ammo.
Anything that has happened before, will happen again eventually.
tanksoldier
12-22-20, 22:38
How many new owners are there? A sale doesn't mean a new owner
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The Remington CEO says 7mil new owners in that vid. NRA says about the same.
Maybe it's those renegade neckbeards in rental vans with outta state tags, driving to all the Wallyworlds causing the problem, again...
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.co%2Fimages%2F03a73afb6523f7e3536afbca880a7711%2Fraw&f=1&nofb=1
Anyone who has been at this game for more than the last year should know better.
If you got caught with your pants down, you are likely the kind of guy who takes a tranny home and doesn't figure it out until the clothes are coming off.
The Remington CEO says 7mil new owners in that vid. NRA says about the same.So slightly less than population of NYC
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Maybe it's those renegade neckbeards in rental vans with outta state tags, driving to all the Wallyworlds causing the problem, again...
Anyone who has been at this game for more than the last year should know better.
.
I don't know about a year, but at some point you are responsible for your own ammo shortage. This is why I get so tired of "CTD is ripping me off" or "price gouging" threads. You play this game, eventually you're responsible for knowing the rules. The rules are that you have to prepare stock up-- whether it's loaded ammo, supplies of hand loading, or some combination of that, the only ammo supply you can trust is what you physically possess and can maintain.
The last panic was my wake up call. I bought a press and started stockpiling supplies. Especially that pre-primed Wolf Gold brass for 13c/each. Brand new brass already primed and crimped for 13c/ea. Powder, bullet and done.
ChattanoogaPhil
12-23-20, 08:39
Of course the factories are working overtime. You may only care about a few calibers but they have to restock the whole country with what? At least a dozen different calibers?!?
From a different perspective it might be said that the whole country IS stocked. The stock just moved from retail shelves and shipping docks to consumer storage. It's not like there's been a huge increase in ammo use that caused all this additional demand. From my own observations at the club I'd say there's actually been a significant reduction in shooting during the pandemic while at the same time ammo sales skyrocketed.
I don't know about a year, but at some point you are responsible for your own ammo shortage. This is why I get so tired of "CTD is ripping me off" or "price gouging" threads. You play this game, eventually you're responsible for knowing the rules. The rules are that you have to prepare stock up-- whether it's loaded ammo, supplies of hand loading, or some combination of that, the only ammo supply you can trust is what you physically possess and can maintain.
The last panic was my wake up call. I bought a press and started stockpiling supplies. Especially that pre-primed Wolf Gold brass for 13c/each. Brand new brass already primed and crimped for 13c/ea. Powder, bullet and done.
I have been a buyer for as long as I can remember, sitting on a very comfortable stash but agree with you on the reloading and want to start when things settle down. Was all set but then got divorced and had to 'reposition' things....ha
I'll start up when things settle down a bit but agree. I didn't know they made brass all set like that!
Steve Shannon
12-23-20, 09:33
From a different perspective it might be said that the whole country IS stocked. The stock just moved from retail shelves and shipping docks to consumer storage. It's not like there's been a huge increase in ammo use that caused all this additional demand. From my own observations at the club I'd say there's actually been a significant reduction in shooting during the pandemic while at the same time ammo sales skyrocketed.
This is exactly the case. The existing supply is being purchased as quickly as it’s being made and because of supply and demand the price has risen. Those who are sitting on it don’t want to shoot it because it could become even more expensive to replace. Those who don’t have it are determined to get some, and are willing to pay the price. And some complain about price gouging because they don’t have any and don’t want to spend the going rate.
When there’s a potential for profit to be made, people will make it.
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From a different perspective it might be said that the whole country IS stocked. The stock just moved from retail shelves and shipping docks to consumer storage. It's not like there's been a huge increase in ammo use that caused all this additional demand. From my own observations at the club I'd say there's actually been a significant reduction in shooting during the pandemic while at the same time ammo sales skyrocketed.
I agree. I’ve read on the internet that people are shooting like crazy in some areas, but I’m not seeing it. We’ve got 3 outdoor ranges and 4 indoor ranges here. One of the indoor ranges is shut down. The others are ghost towns except on weekends, where they have like two customers. The unsupervised public range is still full of idiots teaching their children to hate guns by having them shoot hard recoiling rifles and leaving trash everywhere. But in general, I’m seeing maybe 25% of the shooters I saw last year at ranges when I visit. My private land shooting group still meets weekly, all three of us.
PracticalRifleman
12-23-20, 10:46
Personally, every time I go to the range I see new shooters with new rifles. They may show up with 20 or 40 rounds and shoot them all. The local brass collector has commented he’s picking up as much as ever, but scrap price of brass is down. He comments on seeing people there he’s not seen before.
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Smart dealers are saving ammo to go with new gun sales. Those are likely a good chunk of the people at ranges.
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