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CarlosDJackal
12-02-08, 07:04
.... give them a swift kick in the nuts!! :mad:

From DOWNRANGE TV (http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/industry/378.shtml)

Early Brady Plans Revealed - Push to end all private sales
By Alan Korwin
Dec 1, 2008 - 12:30:16 PM

Plenty of gun-ban speculation is flying. I have this quote direct from Sarah Brady in a letter addressed to me: "On Election Day, we helped deliver a strong victory for President-Elect Barack Obama and Vice-President-Elect Joe Biden. They will be two of the most powerful allies we have ever had."

This is what Obama meant when he told you to your face that he respects the Second Amendment. He is the acknowledged champion of the anti-rights gun-ban movement.

POINT ONE

Most of you already know that phony talk about "gun-show-loopholes" was a smokescreen. Sarah and her team now confirm this. They are planning for: "universal background checks for EVERY gun sold in this country." (Her emphasis, not mine).

Gun shows, she says, are now merely "included" in that plan, this will appear as proposed legislation shortly after inauguration day.

Smart money says it will be fast tracked -- so be sure to join, re-up, or get friends to join gun-rights groups to aid the battle. The pro-rights groups are the main chance to slow it down and re-tool it to whatever extent possible. Don't wait.

Find your state and national gun-rights groups here:
http://www.gunlaws.com/links

For ideas on what one person (that's you pal) can do, http://www.gunlaws.com/Tactics%20That%20Work.htm

The new gun-tracking plan will require somewhat complex legislation, to mix personal or private sales, and transfers between family members, in the centrally managed FBI NICS system for licensed dealers. A mechanism to accomplish that means making government larger and hiring more help.

The rhetoric has now expanded from phony "gun-show loopholes" to a new "deadly loopholes" idea: "We know Obama and Biden share our commitment to closing deadly loopholes in our gun laws."

If there was any doubt amongst the public about Obama's "support" for rights, the Bradys, now that the election is over, express the truth: "The Obama-Biden ticket won convincingly while clearly supporting gun laws." Everyone supports gun laws that disarm violent criminals. The Bradys though are talking about something else -- gun laws that disarm, encumber or infringe on the rights of the innocent. They plan on government tracking of every firearm in private hands.


POINT TWO

Campaign talk about making the phony "assault-weapons" ban permanent has morphed into "enact a stronger, comprehensive federal ban on military-style assault weapons." They're drafting it right now (Congress doesn't draft these things, interest groups do and hand it to them on platters).

The only thing that could be "stronger" than Clinton's total ban on the sale of new products would be to go after existing firearms in civilian hands, which Clinton left alone. That would require contrabanding, outright confiscations or at a minimum, registration schemes. We'll have to wait for the bill to drop to see what they plan.

"Comprehensive," and "military-style" seem like code words for "more guns banned," far greater lists and categories than Clinton was able to get enacted. Normal capacity magazines like police use will undoubtedly be included, and if the past is prologue, the lists of guns will include standard household firearms the public has safely owned for decades, with little concern for criminals who misuse firearms (already strictly illegal and widely unenforced). Never forget -- "assault" is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.

I've said it before and it bears repeating. If the Bradys get Obama to go after CRIMINAL MISUSE of firearms, they'll have widespread support from NRA types and the marksmanship community as a whole. If they instead go after private property the community already peaceably owns, they'll meet outraged resistance.


POINT THREE

Sarah Brady is asking Obama to "close the deadly holes in our current laws that allow terrorists to buy guns." This is a solution in search of a problem, since terrorists already can't legally buy guns. Brady president Paul Helmke talks instead of blocking "suspected terrorists." That could mean anyone.

It's a back door way to vastly expand the NICS Index -- the list of prohibited possessors that reportedly includes more than ten million Americans. Once you're on, it can be next to impossible to get off, so making it larger serves the goal of the gun banners wonderfully. Many (but not all) currently in the NICS index are violent felons and other low-lifes who belong there.

It's not completely clear who they'd like to add, but in the past, an effort was made to grant arbitrary authority to the Attorney General to add names to terrorism "watch lists." This would prevent those people from air travel and place other restrictions on civil liberties. Sort of like Guantanamo detainees without the need to be caught shooting at Americans on a battlefield. Anyone on that list would be automatically banned by a NICS check, and those checks would no longer be limited to retail purchases from dealers.

FYI, if you're placed on the NICS list, it suggests you're a prohibited possessor whether you are or not, so any guns or ammo you already own or even touch could then constitute a felony. To a zealous cop or judge, a NICS listing might require you to prove your innocence, a nightmare of legal problems. That list should be scrupulously accurate and easily corrected, tasks government is known to do worse than their "management" of the economy.

Just for the record, any actual terrorist is totally banned from buying or having guns in this country, but they could hardly care less about lists kept in West Virginia by the FBI. Terrorist by definition means "We smuggle weapons you can't even get, easier than you can buy a bag of cocaine in any America city."

An aside -- these "terrorists" (generally a code name for radical muslims) are determined to kill and blow up everything they can, and they prove it around the world constantly, you needn't take my word for it. They haven't done it here since 9/11 for one main reason -- president Bush, although hampered with constant attacks in the media (which have now swayed large swaths of the public) has been killing them off as fast as he can, before they can strike us here. He may take a lot of flack, and be looked down upon by many, but he just may be remembered as one of the greatest presidents we have ever had the luck to have. Please don't write to complain to me about that. I'm just noting that the muslims are killing everywhere but here, and president Bush is leading that charge. What's the bumper sticker? "Saving your butt, like it or not." OK, so he says he doesn't read a lot, that's another discussion.


POINT FOUR

Sarah (Brady, not Palin) included one bald deception in her message by saying "we achieved a major victory when the first federal gun law in over twelve years passed." She refers to the NICS improvement act, for which both the Bradys and NRA took credit. It expands the NICS index by helping states add nut cases (the non-technical description) to the list (a rule Brady rightly applauds). It also lets falsely accused or no-longer-ineligible people get off the list, which you couldn't do previously (a rule NRA rightly applauds).

The 12-year part is laughably inaccurate, but no one expects the media to point out the lie so I will, for just this century, including:

--The PATRIOT Act (which redundantly disarms terrorists and broadens the definition of who the government can label and treat as a terrorist);

--The Aviation and Transportation Security Act (which arms passenger pilots and eventually cargo pilots);

--The Homeland Security Act (which arms all sorts of new federal agents);

--The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (HR218, which arms retired, off-duty and traveling police officers of every description across all state lines, exactly what the Second Amendment is supposed to but no longer protects for the public);

--The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Firearms Act (which protects firearm manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits);

--The Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act (which stops authorities from gun confiscations after storms and disasters like Katrina);

--And that's just the bigger ones in the past eight years.

What hasn't been passed "after eight long years of watching the gun lobby run loose in the halls of power" (her words) was a single federal law that directly improved the rights of gun owners in their normal every day lives. Not one.

Authorities got armed and protected. Manufacturers got protected. Cured or falsely accused nut cases got a redress of grievances. Storm-disaster victims got something. But your routine human right to carry, right to defend yourself, right to travel armed, right to shop away from home, right to get a gun from your dad or brother in another state, right to get a tax break for going to the range, or for teaching your kids how to shoot safely -- no laws like that passed through Congress in all those years. What a lost opportunity while we ran loose in the halls of power. If only we had some of these laws: http://www.gunlaws.com/sunshin.htm

Sworn to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution, Congress has done nothing of the sort when it comes to your Second Amendment rights. That's a national disgrace, and it will be sorely felt when Brady and her evil cohorts savagely attack what rights you have remaining.


POINT FIVE

Suggestion for action --

1 - ALERT your local marksmanship clubs and fellow marksman by emailing them this Gun Law Update;

2 - DECIDE to go to lunch or dinner the week of January 12 before inauguration day at any decent restaurant near you (just pick a date and place and tell everyone to go there);

3 - AGREE together -- in person -- to get the word out and show up at your state capital and other high profile spots when infringements to your right to keep and bear arms are assaulted. Agree to face up to people who disrespect your rights and do harm to the precious and sacred Constitution of the United States of America.

More details when they arrive.
To sign up for future alerts go to http://www.gunlaws.com


POINT SIX

Crass commercial message from an unabashed capitalist free-marketeer -- books make excellent gifts, help us continue our work and do some good Christmas shopping with us. New gun owners need the rules, long-time gun owners need new tactics and strategies, the politically correct need correction, and everyone needs a little extra safety, preparedness and a good read or two. http://www.gunlaws.com/books.htm. It's a particularly good time to consider the Founders Package -- the books our Founding Fathers read and wrote. http://www.gunlaws.com/books8founders.htm


*********************

Alan Korwin is the author of three books and co-author of seven others, is a full-time freelance writer, consultant and entrepreneur with a twenty-five-year track record. He is a founder and two-term past president of the Arizona Book Publishing Association, which has presented him with its Visionary Leadership award, named in his honor, the Korwin Award. He has received national awards for his publicity work as a member of the Society for Technical Communication, and is a past board member of the Arizona chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists.

rob_s
12-02-08, 07:10
As long as they have well-reasoned (at least to them) reasons for who they voted for, I don't really care. It's the idiots we see on the various youtube videos that irk me.

People are entitled to their opinions and are entitled to vote for who they choose. I find it odd that just because someone owns a gun then they must agree with everything else I believe in. Many people believe, right or wrong, that Obama is more likely to help them get/retain a job, in which case it's understandable that they would put the ability to own an AR15 on the back burner while they worry about feeding their family.

Not saying I agree with them, just that I understand where they're coming from.

Iraqgunz
12-02-08, 07:17
My vote against Obama was more than just about guns. In addition to his position on the 2nd Amendment, he is also in favor of pulling out of Iraq (so am I as long as it is done correctly) in which case many of us working here could find ourselves unemployed, he wants to raise taxes, he has associations with people that most of us here find offensive and his values are nothing like mine.

If someon who is a gun owner wanted to vote for him that is their prerogative in this free country. It doesn't mean I have to associate with them or understand their position. Unfortunately, I believe too many people weren't given all the facts and I think that alot of voters were asleep at the wheel. I guess we'll just have to see how things really turn out.......

Obiwan
12-02-08, 07:30
I also see a person's vote as being a private matter

What irks me is the lengths I see some gun owners go to to defend Obama as a friend of the 2A

Only time will tell

markm
12-02-08, 07:38
I won't even speak to the guy who was my best man due to the fact that he voted for Ali Bama.

mmike87
12-02-08, 07:40
Say what you will, but I will not even speak to anyone, gun owner or not, who voted for Obama.

As far as a more restrictive AWB, what I think is likely is something that actually prevents you from buying any "military style " rifle. Under the old "ban", you could still get pretty close just by omitting the flash hider.

I doubt there is any real support for confiscation in this country - there was not even a lot of support to renew the old ban when it was expiring. But I believe a new ban IS coming.

I guess I'll have to start collecting knives until they ban those, too.

Magsz
12-02-08, 11:07
What really irks the shit out of me are the people that voted for Obama BASED on his views of the 2nd amendment then have the balls to go out and buy a couple ar15's to get into the "hobby".

All of the discussions that were had on the impending AWB, obaminators gun control desires, etc, etc, meant nothing to these jackasses. They were swept under the rug, they voted for the thug and now they go out and buy "deadly assault rifles"?

...

Thats about all ive got to say to these people.

Its incredibly frustrating how stupid and hypocritical some people can be at times.

mattjmcd
12-02-08, 11:22
What really irks the shit out of me are the people that voted for Obama BASED on his views of the 2nd amendment then have the balls to go out and buy a couple ar15's to get into the "hobby".

All of the discussions that were had on the impending AWB, obaminators gun control desires, etc, etc, meant nothing to these jackasses. They were swept under the rug, they voted for the thug and now they go out and buy "deadly assault rifles"?

...

Thats about all ive got to say to these people.

Its incredibly frustrating how stupid and hypocritical some people can be at times.

Agreed. I live in SoCal. Tons of Obama voters here, obviously. I am seeing people who voted for him making inquiries about firearms now that they see the writing on the wall. Lots of interest in black rifles and handguns. Don't sleep on handguns, guys. They are hated almost to the same degree as EBR's.

CarlosDJackal
12-02-08, 12:09
I know of at least three members of my Gun Club (I'm pretty sure there are more of them) who voted for bho for financial reasons. All three are avid Trap and/or Skeet shooters and have actually publicly stated that they see no need for anyone to own a handgun or an "Assault Rifle" (AR-15).

As far as these yahoos care about is that they can keep their shotgun and that they are allowed to keep breaking clay pigeons and maybe to still be able to hunt fowl. As far as they're concerned, the 2nd Amendment is a guarantee that they can hunt birds and pursue their sport.

If (God forbid a million times) bho implements some sort of huge tax on ammo; I swear I'll kick any of these guys right in the nads if they so much as peep about how expensive it is to shoot because of such a tax. :mad:

30 cal slut
12-02-08, 12:12
Buck Farack.

Littlelebowski
12-02-08, 12:16
There's a guy on here that voted for Obama :rolleyes:

Derek_Connor
12-02-08, 13:19
I dont talk politics w/gun owners, because 95% of gun owners do not know anything about politics.

Iraqgunz
12-02-08, 13:23
:D :D :D


There's a guy on here that voted for Obama :rolleyes:

bigshooter
12-02-08, 17:02
There's a guy on here that voted for Obama :rolleyes:

WTF?

should I get my pitchfork?

Littlelebowski
12-02-08, 17:11
Nah. Think he's outta here. You should always have your torch and pitchfork handy regardless.

ZDL
12-02-08, 17:58
Nah. Think he's outta here. You should always have your torch and pitchfork handy regardless.

lol. There are some amongst us still ..... :eek:

Iraqgunz
12-02-08, 17:59
Maybe they sent him back out on patrol?

Saginaw79
12-02-08, 18:28
IMO the 2A is a great way to flesh out a candidate.

If he/she doesnt trust you w/ guns, or respect your right to them,why should you trust them in power?

I will NOT vote for a socialist or anti-gun candidate! PERIOD!

Just remember, the original AWB only passed by one vote, and they had a larger majority then. Now we are better informed, better organized and networked and everyone knows the AWB was a failure, and those new officials want to keep their jobs and they know what happened in '94 :cool:

Don Robison
12-02-08, 19:36
IMO the 2A is a great way to flesh out a candidate.

If he/she doesnt trust you w/ guns, or respect your right to them,why should you trust them in power?



That's my take as well.

I normally avoid politics in the work environment, but I got my small victory last week when a guy who had been preaching the BO messiah stuff for a couple of months asked me to build him a rifle so he could have it before any potential ban. I left him with his mouth open when I told him to go ask Obama and Biden to build it for him.

ZDL
12-02-08, 19:37
That's my take as well.

I normally avoid politics in the work environment, but I got my small victory last week when a guy who had been preaching the BO messiah stuff for a couple of months asked me to build him a rifle so he could have it before any potential ban. I left him with his mouth open when I told him to go ask Obama and Biden to build it for him.

Another approach, build him a DPMS for $3,000.

Littlelebowski
12-02-08, 19:44
Maybe they sent him back out on patrol?

Patrolling the internet maybe. He has a habit of getting the lynch mobs after him when he's on a forum.

Don Robison
12-02-08, 19:55
Another approach, build him a DPMS for $3,000.


I never thought of that, but I'd rather eat dog food than help someone who voted for BO get a gun.....................even if it's an over priced POS gun.

ZDL
12-02-08, 19:56
I never thought of that, but I'd rather eat dog food than help someone who voted for BO get a gun.....................even if it's an over priced POS gun.

.....minus a bcg?...... :eek: :p

Or, airsoft him.

Littlelebowski
12-02-08, 20:20
I'd never even give advice to someone who voted for Obama. So, you know who are. Go away.

10MMGary
12-02-08, 22:38
Another approach, build him a DPMS for $3,000.

Now that is funny(and a great idea), and so is Buck Farack:D:D:D.

g5m
12-02-08, 22:46
That's my take as well.

I normally avoid politics in the work environment, but I got my small victory last week when a guy who had been preaching the BO messiah stuff for a couple of months asked me to build him a rifle so he could have it before any potential ban. I left him with his mouth open when I told him to go ask Obama and Biden to build it for him.


Good response.
I have a friend who fits the thread title. NOW he's starting to think about it.

Iraqgunz
12-03-08, 01:15
Holy shit that is too funny! But, I am not shocked. I say build him the 3K DPMS rifle and use his money to buy even more guns and ammo for yourself.


That's my take as well.

I normally avoid politics in the work environment, but I got my small victory last week when a guy who had been preaching the BO messiah stuff for a couple of months asked me to build him a rifle so he could have it before any potential ban. I left him with his mouth open when I told him to go ask Obama and Biden to build it for him.

markm
12-03-08, 07:19
I dont talk politics w/gun owners, because 95% of gun owners do not know anything about politics.

Shit! 95% of gun owners don't know anything about guns.

scottryan
12-03-08, 13:58
Shit! 95% of gun owners don't know anything about guns.



Correct

M4arc
12-03-08, 14:13
Shit! 95% of gun owners don't know anything about guns.

ABSOLUTELY!

Avenger29
12-03-08, 14:19
Shit! 95% of gun owners don't know anything about guns.


This here be ma huntin' rifle...I don't need one o' them assaulter weapons...they is useless for huntin'...the democrats ain't gonna take away my lever action .30-30...and nobody needs no handgun to hunt with, as all they are for are killin' people.

--or--

I just bought this here DPsomething rifle for $1700 after Obama got elected. What a deal...guy at the gunstore told me it was all milspec and not to waste my money on a Colt or some other hifalutin' brand cause all ARs are made by the same people

:rolleyes:

You mean those kinds of gunowners?

infidel
12-03-08, 15:23
This here be ma huntin' rifle...I don't need one o' them assaulter weapons...they is useless for huntin'...the democrats ain't gonna take away my lever action .30-30...and nobody needs no handgun to hunt with, as all they are for are killin' people.

You mean those kinds of gunowners?
My experience has been the opposite. When I encounter a person with an accent as you described, they are invariably more enthusiastic about their (and fellow Americans) gun rights. Mostly salt of the earth types. But when I broach the same gun topics with the majority of over educated city dwellers I rub shoulders with in business... they are woefully ignorant of basic American rights and very hostile to gun rights in particular.

C4IGrant
12-03-08, 15:41
There's a guy on here that voted for Obama :rolleyes:


Yes there is. A cop no less. :rolleyes:


C4

docholliday
12-03-08, 16:08
If it hasn't been said yet it should be . . . From my cold, dead hands. (Charleton Heston RIP)

Jay Cunningham
12-03-08, 16:14
It doesn't matter to me if someone voted for BHO - I won't hold it against them. Hell, I work with tons of gun owners who voted for him (union hunters).

Dave L.
12-03-08, 16:19
If it hasn't been said yet it should be . . . From my cold, dead hands. (Charleton Heston RIP)

That's a great user name for a guy who voted for BHO.

Avenger29
12-03-08, 16:50
My experience has been the opposite. When I encounter a person with an accent as you described, they are invariably more enthusiastic about their (and fellow Americans) gun rights. Mostly salt of the earth types. But when I broach the same gun topics with the majority of over educated city dwellers I rub shoulders with in business... they are woefully ignorant of basic American rights and very hostile to gun rights in particular.

Oh, I'm a Southerner/redneck type by the grace of God. But I've heard a few like in my original post that down here...that's what I'm referring to...

Yes, they are down here, even in SC, where we have an express lane to death row and many rural gas stations have a couple of boxes of ammo...

You know, where you are at your favorite gunstore (at least I am fortunate to have one decent brick and mortar gunstore here) and some Fudd walks in and pops off with that...

Many (not all) city dwellers seem to be hostile to any individual rights...

30 cal slut
12-03-08, 17:03
Well, I'm surrounded by folks who voted for him.

I guess behind enemy lines, I can only do my part by educating folks about 2A, firearms safety, and remaining politically active.

Littlelebowski
12-03-08, 17:22
It's been my experience that union supporters put their cushy jobs and what the union tells them to do over everything else.

C4IGrant
12-03-08, 18:25
It's been my experience that union supporters put their cushy jobs and what the union tells them to do over everything else.


Correct. They drink the "Union Kool Aid."



C4

QuickStrike
12-03-08, 18:39
I hope those Obama loving gun owners have gun destroying Kabooms, if/when Obama bans our toys. :mad:

As for other issues, I see him as a smooth talkin', "say anything for votes" kinda guy. :rolleyes:

He seems like the champion for sheep, free-loaders and racists!

Jay Cunningham
12-03-08, 20:48
Myself and Va_Dinger are both IBEW members, and I've been in this job 10 years. There are a lot of guys who "pull the D lever" because the Union tells them to but there are also quite a few that tell the Union to go pound sand.

ZDL
12-03-08, 21:09
Myself and Va_Dinger are both IBEW members, and I've been in this job 10 years. There are a lot of guys who "pull the D lever" because the Union tells them to but there are also quite a few that tell the Union to go pound sand.

That's great. However, the idea isn't the problem. It's what it gets turned into. Unions, in the raw sense, are a fantastic idea to help guarantee things big corporations can overlook or plain ignore concerning their workers. What it has been turned into though........

Men like you and Va_Dinger who are willing to take part only in the things that are honorable are a rarity. Convert those you can to your beliefs brother.

Littlelebowski
12-03-08, 22:06
As usual, I agree with Barry Goldwater. Unions should only be local and they should not be compulsory. They're an artifact of the last century.

Gentoo
12-04-08, 05:03
LMAO a $3k DPMS rifle. :D

I don't agree with the idea of telling those who voted for BHO to pound sand. Every person you get involved in the gun hobby and Pro-2A is another person on our side. Make them to join the NRA or whatever your favorite pro 2A group is too.

People make mistakes. Help them learn from it and gain another 2A ally, or drive them into the arms of the Brady bunch. Your call.

Alpha Sierra
12-04-08, 05:32
I will not help anyone who I even suspect voted for Obama. That includes family.

I guess I'm just a SOB.

thopkins22
12-04-08, 07:37
As usual, I agree with Barry Goldwater. Unions should only be local and they should not be compulsory. They're an artifact of the last century.

Compulsory unions should be abolished. It's yet another form of collectivism that we should reject.

On a side note, I was talking to a "gun owner" in Gander Mountain yesterday who was complaining about the lack of AR15s. He(very authoritatively:rolleyes:) told me that there should be stricter limits on how many guns and how much ammo one person should be able to buy because people sell them to drug cartels in Mexico. Of course as he was doing this I loaded my cart with around 1k rounds...he refused to believe that somebody might buy a bunch because they are worried about BHO.

CoCop
12-04-08, 11:54
At my Dept we need our union. However, I will never let it influence my vote. As an avid hunter and shooter I don't see how one could vote for a Dem.
There are tons of idiot sportsmen in Colorado that just elected a tree hugging liberal as our Senator. His campaign ads promised that he is not anti gun owner and pro military, he wouldn't lie would he.

Left Sig
12-04-08, 14:01
I think we should make an exception here for LEO unions. LEO's are in a prime position for political abuse by elected officials when they do their jobs correctly and prosecute politically connected law breakers. I don't think career LEO's with good records should have to worry about getting fired for doing their jobs and going after corrupt politicians. It still happens even with unions in place, but I think the unions may be a good thing in this case.

But if you're not a sworn officer, or maybe a fireman, I don't think government employees should be allowed to unionize. It's just too likely to end in political pandering.

thopkins22
12-04-08, 15:54
I think we should make an exception here for LEO unions...

I don't have a problem with any VOLUNTARY associations at all. Mandatory membership is where the problem lies.

Left Sig
12-04-08, 16:07
Fair enough. Most southern states have right-to-work legislation that prevents compulsory union membership. And that's where all the manufacturing business that is staying in the US is going.

If the rust belt wants to keep jobs in their states, they need to enact similar legislation. But they won't because of political influence by unions. They'd rather watch the whole ship sink than give up their place on the deck.

CarlosDJackal
12-04-08, 16:20
That's my take as well.

I normally avoid politics in the work environment, but I got my small victory last week when a guy who had been preaching the BO messiah stuff for a couple of months asked me to build him a rifle so he could have it before any potential ban. I left him with his mouth open when I told him to go ask Obama and Biden to build it for him.

Tell him that I'd be willing to build him an AR-15 using US made components from a liberal state: Washington. I'll even sell it to him at the low ball value of $2999. :D

CarlosDJackal
12-04-08, 16:47
I think we should make an exception here for LEO unions. LEO's are in a prime position for political abuse by elected officials when they do their jobs correctly and prosecute politically connected law breakers. I don't think career LEO's with good records should have to worry about getting fired for doing their jobs and going after corrupt politicians. It still happens even with unions in place, but I think the unions may be a good thing in this case.

But if you're not a sworn officer, or maybe a fireman, I don't think government employees should be allowed to unionize. It's just too likely to end in political pandering.

Unions for Service Workers today are where the Coal Miners Unions were back in the 1930s. You pretty much have to have them or you're going to be screwed. Service Unions generally do not add tot he Cost of Goods Sold because there are no goods sold. It's all Services.

Do they add to the cost of Services? Unfortunately, yes. Do they have to? Unfortunately, yes. However, these added costs usually result in better services by increasing the survivability of the workers and their ability to perform these services. Which in the end benefits the public.

There are exceptions to this of course, but if you have honest Union Management these can be mitigated altogether. And even if they are not, their impact on the end product (the service) is minimal (for the most part).

IMHO, memberships in these organizations should never be mandatory for anyone.

Norva
12-04-08, 17:46
It's been my experience that union supporters put their cushy jobs and what the union tells them to do over everything else.

You are right my friend. I work for Verizon and the union was cramming all this BO crap down my throat. I refused their propoganda and they would get pissed off. I would give them a nasty @ss look!

Nathan_Bell
12-04-08, 17:52
Unions for Service Workers today are where the Coal Miners Unions were back in the 1930s. You pretty much have to have them or you're going to be screwed. Service Unions generally do not add tot he Cost of Goods Sold because there are no goods sold. It's all Services.

Do they add to the cost of Services? Unfortunately, yes. Do they have to? Unfortunately, yes. However, these added costs usually result in better services by increasing the survivability of the workers and their ability to perform these services. Which in the end benefits the public.

There are exceptions to this of course, but if you have honest Union Management these can be mitigated altogether. And even if they are not, their impact on the end product (the service) is minimal (for the most part).

IMHO, memberships in these organizations should never be mandatory for anyone.

Honest union management in the Rust Belt? Surely you jest! (I'll call you Shirley if I feel like it :p)
PA, OH, IN, and IL are all too systemically crooked for that to happen.

Norva
12-04-08, 17:57
Myself and Va_Dinger are both IBEW members, and I've been in this job 10 years. There are a lot of guys who "pull the D lever" because the Union tells them to but there are also quite a few that tell the Union to go pound sand.

I was in local 80 apprencticeship in the late 90's. My uncle is high up in local 80 and works for E.G. Middelton out of Norfolk