VCOG vs. Elcan Specter 1-4x

[BoringGuy45]

So, for my general purpose, SHTF, jack of all trades rifle, I'm looking into variable optic. I know that LVPOs appear to be the new wave thing, but what's the thought on the Elcan these days? Is it going the way of the dinosaur, or is there still a place for it for general purpose roles? For LVPOs, I'm leaning towards the VCOG as it seems to be the most robust, and the 700 hour battery is better than most of the LVPOs in its class, though the Kahles K16i is tempting too (though the battery life is not comparable to the Trijicon).

How does the Specter compare to the VCOG (or the Kahles) in terms of use at 1x CQB and/or mid-range? I know the 6x of LVPO gives you the ability to reach out a little more, but I also like the simplicity of just switching between 1 and 4 without having to think about adjusting and fine tuning and such. I dunno. Thoughts?

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

So I have a personal VCOG 1-6 and had one on my work gun too. Nobody in my company runs the Elcans, they sit in the cages. You’ll see guys running personal LPVO’s. The elcan had problems holding zero when switching between the 1x or 4x. Elcan also has a short eye relief so a VCOG is better. A buddy of mine got the 1-8 vcog and has been running one for a little less than a year. The marines made a good choice with the new 1-8 vcog. I have one that I have yet to mount but it is daylight bright from when I have taken it out to check the brightness.

[BoringGuy45]

I was leaning towards the VCOG. The Elcan caught my eye more for the simplicity and the comparatively lesser cost (though not that much less), and I've heard that the eye relief and the zero problems had been fixed in newer models. But with more and more people and militaries going the way of the LPVO, there must be something to it.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

The VCOG is great, if you’re going to get one get the 1-8 because the illumination is daylight bright and the reticle design is better than the old 1-6 models. Someone will probably chime in and say “daylight visible” because it’s not nuclear aimpoint bright to where it blooms but honestly on 1x when it’s an Eotech like reticle you don’t want the crazy bloom. It will be definitely red. You’ll find yourself using the in between magnification too. Some guys says it’s either 1x or 8x but with my 1-8 Accupowers I find myself on 6x 1.5x 4x depending on what the target and what is going on. Sometimes knowing you have multiple targets you don’t want 8x so you go down to 6x or you want a tiny bit but still speed so you go 1.5x.

[Mrgunsngear]

I've used the Elcan extensively professionally in my misguided youth on 2 way ranges and it's FANTASTIC and I recommend it as a "do all" combat optic that can offer the user an "unfair" (that's what you want...) advantage in a variety of environments.... but I'd choose the 1-6x VCOG over it if I could do it all over again. I've only used the VCOG in "civilian" settings but the 1x is much more forgiving and the integral mount is better.

That said, the new ARMS levers solve 99% of the ELCAN mount issues and they really should just be included with new production units. That said they're uber cheap so it's not that big of a deal to pick them up after picking up the optic...
https://i.imgur.com/yCrF7n8l.jpg

[Mrgunsngear]

I've used the Elcan extensively professionally in my misguided youth on 2 way ranges and it's FANTASTIC and I recommend it as a "do all" combat optic that can offer the user an "unfair" (that's what you want...) advantage in a variety of environments.... but I'd choose the 1-6x VCOG over it if I could do it all over again. I've only used the VCOG in "civilian" settings but the 1x is much more forgiving and the integral mount is better.

That said, the new ARMS levers solve 99% of the ELCAN mount issues and they really should just be included with new production units. That said they're uber cheap so it's not that big of a deal to pick them up after picking up the optic...
https://i.imgur.com/yCrF7n8l.jpg

My VCOG review FWIW:


https://youtu.be/IiIjdr4xJbU

[Wake27]

Why not a Razor? Shit for the price of either of those you could easily have a 1-6 Razor in a Badger mount with an offset or top mounted RMR. I wouldn't overthink battery life on an LPVO since they have reticles that don't require the battery. Sure its nice, but often not entirely necessary with the right reticle, especially if the scope has off settings in between each brightness.

[BoringGuy45]

The battery life thing...yeah, that's more of a creature comfort thing. I know that, unlike with a RDS, I'm not SOL if my battery goes down. It's just nice to have a longer time before I have to think about it.

What are the Razors going for? According to the Vortex site, it's MSRP is about the same as the Kahles at $1999. I figure for the same price, I'd go with the K16i. Are the Razors usually going for less?

[Wake27]

The battery life thing...yeah, that's more of a creature comfort thing. I know that, unlike with a RDS, I'm not SOL if my battery goes down. It's just nice to have a longer time before I have to think about it.

What are the Razors going for? According to the Vortex site, it's MSRP is about the same as the Kahles at $1999. I figure for the same price, I'd go with the K16i. Are the Razors usually going for less?

1-6 Razors are usually around the $1,200 range and are always popping up on the ARFCOM EE. Personally, I’d go Gen II-E with MRAD reticle or the Gen III 1-10 if you’re patient and up for paying around $2k for just the scope.

Have had both the 1-6 and 1-10, just ended up selling to fund some other stuff while I could find it in stock but I fully intend on buying both again down the road. I used the Badger C1 in 1.7 height with both and it was the perfect height, I don’t know why anyone even tried LPVOs in the 1.5 height. I also added the offset RDS just to try it out. Aside from the Khales, the razor is probably the closest to an RDS on 1x but I figured I’d give it a shot and liked it quite a bit. The only downside there was the extra bulk of the rifle but Badger is releasing a top mount soon so that would have been next on my list to try. I just ended up buying a KAC can instead.


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[ExplorinInTheWoods]

Why not a Razor? Shit for the price of either of those you could easily have a 1-6 Razor in a Badger mount with an offset or top mounted RMR. I wouldn't overthink battery life on an LPVO since they have reticles that don't require the battery. Sure its nice, but often not entirely necessary with the right reticle, especially if the scope has off settings in between each brightness.


The battery life thing...yeah, that's more of a creature comfort thing. I know that, unlike with a RDS, I'm not SOL if my battery goes down. It's just nice to have a longer time before I have to think about it.

What are the Razors going for? According to the Vortex site, it's MSRP is about the same as the Kahles at $1999. I figure for the same price, I'd go with the K16i. Are the Razors usually going for less?

For durability The gen 1 razor was stronger, a few buddies each broke multiple razors in one 3gun season. A buddy at the AMU said razor cut the weight out of the turrets for the gen ii and there have been guys having problems with turrets breaking or they’re not holding zero.

[BoringGuy45]

For durability The gen 1 razor was stronger, a few buddies each broke multiple razors in one 3gun season. A buddy at the AMU said razor cut the weight out of the turrets for the gen ii and there have been guys having problems with turrets breaking or they’re not holding zero.

I had heard mixed things about the Razor in terms of being a SHTF optic: Overall, it's pretty good, but not quite as bombproof as the VCOG, K16i, S&B, NF, etc.

[BoringGuy45]

**Double tap**

[Wake27]

For durability The gen 1 razor was stronger, a few buddies each broke multiple razors in one 3gun season. A buddy at the AMU said razor cut the weight out of the turrets for the gen ii and there have been guys having problems with turrets breaking or they’re not holding zero.

Pretty sure the Razor is still the golden standard. I did break mine early on but it took a hell of a fall and even then, it was still actually pretty usable. After fixing it, I beat it more than any other optic and it was solid, same with the Gen III.

ETA - there's also a K16i on the ARFCOM EE for $1,750.

[BoringGuy45]

What's the thought on FFP vs. SFP reticles? I know most of these have SFP, but the VCOG is first plane.

[Zane1844]

What's the thought on FFP vs. SFP reticles? I know most of these have SFP, but the VCOG is first plane.

I prefer FFP. Though the Vortex is great either way.

I loved the Elcan. I regret selling mine. I only sold it because I was never shooting past 25yds with my SBR and decided a T2 would be better. Now, I am considering getting a G33 for it.

I've had the Vortex 6x and now the 10x. The Gen3, IMO, is better. I like it a lot. But, if money is a concern finding a Gen2 for cheaper may be the way to go.

[Wake27]

What's the thought on FFP vs. SFP reticles? I know most of these have SFP, but the VCOG is first plane.

I'm still a scope rookie but my take:

Biggest SFP con: reticle (stadia) is only fully usable at max power
Biggest SFP pro: cheaper and easier to get daylight bright
Biggest FFP con: harder to get a bright reticle AND poorly designed reticles are very small on 1x so you don't have a great option on 1x
Biggest FFP pro: reticle (stadia) is usable at all distances (except maybe low power if its so small that its hard to see)

Bottom line: its easier to get cheaper SFPs that are good on 1x between brightness and fixed reticle size, and if your max power is 4-6x, the fixed reticle probably isn't a big issue for holds; expect to pay more for an equally usable FFP at low power, but at 8+ power, being able to zoom mid-way and still use the reticle is very desired.

Again, all IMO.

[RKB Armory]

I would go with the VCOG if I had the choice between a VCOG or an Elcan. The reason is the extra magnification the VCOG provides. The 4x magnification of The Elcan is not a lot, these days.

Years ago, I tried an Elcan. At the time I was only accustomed to an ACOG and a red dot. I found the Elcan to be too big and too heavy for what it did. However, now that I am used to an LPVO, the Elcan is neither too big nor too heavy. The only thing that changed was my perspective.

[BoringGuy45]

How do the EOTech Vudus stack up against the Razors? I know Garand thumb had issues with the illumination in early models. Did they ever improve that? All in all, is it a serious contender to the Razor?

[GTF425]

All in all, is it a serious contender to the Razor?

Short answer; no.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

How do the EOTech Vudus stack up against the Razors? I know Garand thumb had issues with the illumination in early models. Did they ever improve that? All in all, is it a serious contender to the Razor?

The 1-8 vudu is sfp and has a very small red dot. It is daylight bright but it’s so small, it doesn’t have the Eotech style reticle. It’s similar to a razor 1-6 reticle.