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View Full Version : C.S.M. drop pouch v. Maxpedition/Military Moron drop



Cold Zero
11-12-06, 08:37
Does anyone have experience with both of these? How many mags does the C.S.M. dump pouch hold? How is the C.S.M. to work with, is it too big? Assume both to be of equal size. Advantages and disadvantages of each. Thanks.

Akoni
11-12-06, 10:48
The thing I dislike most about my CSM is the liner. It's fine with big things like mags but if you're using it for other things, like carrying ammo for topping off your shotgun/pistols in a class, it's a pain. The CSM also does not fold up as small as the MM design.

I have both and for most things, I prefer the MM unit.

Derek_Connor
11-12-06, 12:36
The thing I dislike most about my CSM is the liner. It's fine with big things like mags but if you're using it for other things, like carrying ammo for topping off your shotgun/pistols in a class, it's a pain. The CSM also does not fold up as small as the MM design.

I have both and for most things, I prefer the MM unit.


I also use the MM, never tried anything else though. The only thing I have noticed from seeing the CSM during class is it seems to take alot of real-estate on the belts compared to the MM? Anyone confirm?

IDCC
11-12-06, 18:10
Old pics of my CSM pouch. Doc Mike says alot of shotgun shooters use his pouch. It doesnt seem to take up much real estate on my belt. It can hold 8 30RD AR mags

http://www.hunt101.com/img/381519.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/381517.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/381513.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/381509.JPG

nyeti
11-13-06, 01:12
As a straight Dump pouch, I like the CSM. They work really well for what it was designed for........dumping crap into. Its big, stays open so you can get your mags in quickly, and top quality construction.

I have used the fold up Eagle evidence pouch for just that, putting contraband and seized items in and it can function as a dump pouch in a pinch. I won't use anything made by Maxpetion, so I like the Eagle unit.

If you are using it on a L/E belt for putting contraband/evidence in, then the smaller fold up pouches are fine. For using as a true dump pouch for either dumping partial rifle mags in or for use with shotgun rounds, then the CSM pouch is the hot ticket. Doc is highly respected within the community who uses his pouches in tip of the spear operations, and their is a reason for this-they work-period.

Akoni
11-13-06, 08:44
As a straight Dump pouch, I like the CSM. They work really well for what it was designed for........dumping crap into. Its big, stays open so you can get your mags in quickly, and top quality construction.

Yup, well said.


or for use with shotgun rounds, then the CSM pouch is the hot ticket.

Nope, IMO anyway. The liner does not work well when you're shoving a sweaty/gloved paw in there to fish out shotgun rounds.

Aubrey
11-13-06, 11:32
Although the MM design is good, I also choose not to support Maxpedition and have been very pleased with my CSM gear. Get the Eagle Industries pouch if you want a low-profile, carried-a-lot-used-a-little pouch. The new Eagle LE pouch should also be very GTG (as are virtually all things Eagle).

If you want to carry loose ammo, you might consider the Loose Ammo Bag™/pistol dump pouch from The Wilderness (http://thewilderness.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/4_26/products_id/34?osCsid=07cb082d72e0123ffe7af711c479aece)

http://thewilderness.com/catalog/images/looseammo_400.jpg

David Thomas
11-13-06, 11:37
What am I missing? Two people have now expressed a desire not to support maxpedition, why?

nyeti
11-13-06, 23:16
As far as the CSM dump for 12 ga.-I guess everyone is different. I watched some guys from a Tier 1 special operations unit do some amazing 12 ga. reloads out of CSM pouches. Again everyone may have a different spin as to stuff coming out, but will probably all agree that stuff goes in them really well:D .

As far as Maxpedition, I don't want to start drama on this forum, so I won't drudge up a ton of old dirt. For me, they were involved in craping all over one of my best friends, so I won't drop a dime with them.

Vinh
11-14-06, 08:07
Please elaborate on how the liner interferes with ammunition extraction.

Regarding real estate, the three loops do not have to be spread apart. They can be scrunched together and the pouch will still function.

Pat_Rogers
11-14-06, 08:20
The CSM pouch was made at the request of a unit and is now standard issue in the Marine Corps Individual Assault Kit (IAK).
Mike makes great stuff, and like Eagle, scumbags are always ripping off his designs.
Mike makes a fold up pouch BTW (note IDCC's image)
Remember that in the real world a dump pouch is also used for things other than expended magazines. The design and application of the CSM pouch is based on the user community input- not someones nocturnal emission.
If you need an ASP, there are probably better pouches in which to carry loose ammo. It is a great pouch for carrying pop flares, breaching charges and so forth.
Re mexpedition. I would not walk across the street to urinate on their product.
There are a lot of good people making good gear. I'll spend my money on their products.

Akoni
11-14-06, 12:38
Please elaborate on how the liner interferes with ammunition extraction.


The liner, at least on my CSM pouch is bigger/longer than the outer body and tends to bunch up in the bottom. In the shotgun example (for me and me alone), rounds start getting wrapped up in the liner or you grab a bunch of liner with the rounds once you start getting low on rounds in the pouch (even worse with loose pistol/rifle ammo). If your hand is sweaty and/or you have gloves on (less feel) it seems to make it worse.

As Nyeti and Pat have pointed out, for larger items or for strictly putting things in quickly, it's not an issue and I totally agree with that. For smaller items *I* don't feel it is ideal but can be used. (Not that it matters but the CSM pouch is the one that is always on my belt)

I have no dog in this hunt. (I have a couple things from CSM and a few items from maxped) I know nothing of the politics with Maxpedition but some very well respected people wouldn't "walk across the street to urinate on their product". Strong sentiments that I will keep in mind in the future. I'm all about supporting the "real" good guys.

Derek_Connor
11-14-06, 14:06
The CSM pouch was made at the request of a unit and is now standard issue in the Marine Corps Individual Assault Kit (IAK).
Mike makes great stuff, and like Eagle, scumbags are always ripping off his designs.
Mike makes a fold up pouch BTW (note IDCC's image)
Remember that in the real world a dump pouch is also used for things other than expended magazines. The design and application of the CSM pouch is based on the user community input- not someones nocturnal emission.
If you need an ASP, there are probably better pouches in which to carry loose ammo. It is a great pouch for carrying pop flares, breaching charges and so forth.
Re mexpedition. I would not walk across the street to urinate on their product.
There are a lot of good people making good gear. I'll spend my money on their products.


I feel ill-informed. I do not want to stir the hornets nest, but this is the first time I have heard of anything bad about Maxpedition gear? Have they made some poor business decisions?

Pat_Rogers
11-14-06, 14:26
I suggest that you carefully read Nyeti's post above.

nyeti
11-14-06, 22:41
I edited my post so I don't sound like a moron......I was obviously way too tired to be typing last night.

As far as the 12ga. problem...................what do you mean the ammo on the bottom of the pouch:( . The nice thing about working for a government agency is not having to get low on ammo...........usually the 12 gauge is falling out of the top of mine:D . I start refilling at bout the 1/2 empty mark with all that issued ammo. Don't be haters now, it sort of makes up for the lousy working conditions.

scotty gunz
11-15-06, 23:19
I second pat's post- mike's kit is GTG, you get what you pay for-some always pay twice.

Shane1
11-25-06, 11:40
I took one of the EGR dumpers with me to iraq and then ordered the CSM when I got there. I gave the EGR to one of my teammates and my CSM will never leave my belt. Bomb-proof construction, ease of use and space were the primary factors in selection. My fellow idiots liked it so much, most of them own one now.

k9dpd
11-25-06, 13:40
I used the CSM in a class last weekend and it worked out great, a much better piece of kit that my roly poly

militarymoron
11-27-06, 11:03
as the designer of the rolypoly/MM dump pouch which i licensed to maxpedition, it's dismaying to read the politics that overshadow the product. i'm not exactly sure what pat and nyeti are referring to, but whatever it is, then it happened long after my arrangement with maxpedition. there are always two sides to a story, and from the correspondences i was shown, it seemed that the two parties (who i feel are both 'good guys') had come to an understanding that they were both victims. i still hope that the air gets cleared someday between them.

that's why i hate some of these 'which one is better?' threads. it's up to the user to determine what features work better for HIS individual needs, not anyone else's.
it should be pretty simple - if you are concerned with belt real estate and need something that folds up compactly, pick the rolypoly. if you want something larger with a mouth that stays open - more of a dedicated dump pouch than general use pouch, then pick the CSM. they're different enough to serve different needs.

nyeti
11-29-06, 00:26
The Maxpedition issue has nothing to do with the MM drop pouch controversy from a long time ago. Its a newer thing.

militarymoron
11-29-06, 09:15
PM sent, nyeti. fill me in if you will - i'm unaware of what you're referring to, it looks like.

MudBug
11-29-06, 11:12
I would like to know what this problem is also, why all the secrecy?

nyeti
11-29-06, 23:08
Its an issue that has been addressed on several of the knife forums where it belongs and I don't want to start a pissing contest in this arena where it doesn't belong.