Optic help

[Walker_Texasranger]

I did some slimming down and have 2 complete ARs right now that I’m very happy about.

A DD MK18 with an Eotech EXPS3 that should be an SBR any day now and a SOLGW M4-76 13.7”.

I need an optic for the 13.7. Love my Eotech. Not a perfect reticle but far better then an Aimpoint T2 that I’ve had. Just a really distorted dot and didn’t work for me.

I’ve also had a Razor HD Gen IIE and liked it but really bulky and heavy. Maybe should have spent more time on it.

I’ve played with ACOGs and they are so clear and crisp but fixed mag kind of kills it for me and I don’t want to run an offset red dot.

I’m considering an NX8 but I hear such mixed things. The reticle, brightness, size and weight really appeal to me. People complaining about fuzziness and the diopter being very difficult to set scare me.

Also considering the k16i. The NX8 will be far cheaper as I can get it as a combo from Scalarworks.

Or, since I like eotechs, so I just get another and a magnifier and run that? Don’t have any of this stuff locally so I am stuck buying things and selling them if I don’t like them.

[ggammell]

What do you want to do with the gun?

If you have ever used an LPVO, you’ll be disappointed by the 3x magnifier. The Nx8 has a tight eye box so it depends on use case. The K16i is a really good option if you have the coin. It’s just as good glass wise as a Razor at a lighter weight. The dot is just different so have a good look before you commit.

[Walker_Texasranger]

What do you want to do with the gun?

If you have ever used an LPVO, you’ll be disappointed by the 3x magnifier. The Nx8 has a tight eye box so it depends on use case. The K16i is a really good option if you have the coin. It’s just as good glass wise as a Razor at a lighter weight. The dot is just different so have a good look before you commit.

General purpose rifle. I’m committing to taking some classes next year. Taking a pistol class with Kyle Defoor in April. Want to get a carbine and/or scoped carbine class in as well.

The k16i is really appealing but the reticle options seem like the cons to me. You’d think the SM1 would be cool because it’s Eotech like but center dot seems overpowered by the ring. Maybe not though. The 3GR reticle would be awesome if they didn’t out 2 illuminated dots on it. Seems distracting. On the NX8 I really like the reticle, especially on 1x.

9-hole reviews does amazing optic videos on YouTube and I’ve been trying to take in some info there.

[ggammell]

If your doing scopes carbine with DeFoor you want minimum of 6x. If you search my threads you’ll see an AAR. I went with a 1-4. That changed a 2 months later.

The problem you’re facing is really cost. You can’t get a Viper 1-6 which is 80% or more of a Razor at the same weight and lower cost.
You can get another razor.
You can get the Kahles or Nightforce for less weight but more money

For general purpose I would prefer a second focal plane for better eye box and flexibility. If you’re going to be do more long distance the NX8 would be a better option.

[Walker_Texasranger]

Ok so sounds like you are recommending the k16 then based on SFP and weight.

Do you think the SM1 or 3GR is the better general purpose reticle?

Price isn’t that much of a concern. I’m trying to do a whole quality over quantity thing.

[ggammell]

I only have experience with the 3GR. The dot is bright but it’s not like an LED in the Razor bright. It’s really a matte red dot. I have several friends who use it for multi gun out to 500 and it’s still good enough for close range stages in bright day light.

I also prefer the full crosshair style reticle of the 3GR over the partial of the SM1.

This one is preference. The biggest piece of info is the dot just looks different. It’s very useable. Just not like a traditional red dot in a scope.

If you really want to be baller, they have the k18i which is a second focal plane 1-8x so you can hybrid the focal plane and magnification without the ffp limitations.

[davidjinks]

My personal opinion for optics.....

Nightforce NX8 1-8
ELCAN 1x-4x

I’ve been shooting NF optics since their 1-4 offerings. I like the 1-8 (which I have a thread on in this section). Yes, the NX8 is super picky/finicky in regards to diopter setting. But once you get it, it’s golden. As I found out today. I have been a Larue mount fan boy for many years. That has recently changed with this last NF purchase. I’m currently using the A496 0 MOA mount and it is solid and light weight.

The ELCAN is an optic I’ve been pining for a long time. I just picked it up a couple days ago. I like everything it has to offer. Glass is as clear as any ACOG I’ve owned, eye relief is in between an ACOG and the NX8 depending how you run your stocks. I’ve seen no issues with the ARMS mount. The illumination is absolutely daylight bright. I’m on the fence about the ARD, but we’ll see.

My Colt Commando will be getting another NF 1-8 and my soon to be DD V11 will be getting an ELCAN.


I did some slimming down and have 2 complete ARs right now that I’m very happy about.

A DD MK18 with an Eotech EXPS3 that should be an SBR any day now and a SOLGW M4-76 13.7”.

I need an optic for the 13.7. Love my Eotech. Not a perfect reticle but far better then an Aimpoint T2 that I’ve had. Just a really distorted dot and didn’t work for me.

I’ve also had a Razor HD Gen IIE and liked it but really bulky and heavy. Maybe should have spent more time on it.

I’ve played with ACOGs and they are so clear and crisp but fixed mag kind of kills it for me and I don’t want to run an offset red dot.

I’m considering an NX8 but I hear such mixed things. The reticle, brightness, size and weight really appeal to me. People complaining about fuzziness and the diopter being very difficult to set scare me.

Also considering the k16i. The NX8 will be far cheaper as I can get it as a combo from Scalarworks.

Or, since I like eotechs, so I just get another and a magnifier and run that? Don’t have any of this stuff locally so I am stuck buying things and selling them if I don’t like them.

[Walker_Texasranger]

Ok, I think I might just get a razor II again, but this time with the MRAD reticle.

I love the Scalarworks mounts but OOS. What would be some other good mounts? This Bobro seems great but also OOS.
https://www.bobroengineering.com/Extended-Precision-Optic-Mount_p_20.html

[davidjinks]

There’s a thread going on in AR Gen discussion (I think) talking about Badger mounts.

I like Larue and have used many of their mounts in the past. Currently I have switched everything over to Nightforce Unimount and/or NF rings.


Ok, I think I might just get a razor II again, but this time with the MRAD reticle.

I love the Scalarworks mounts but OOS. What would be some other good mounts? This Bobro seems great but also OOS.
https://www.bobroengineering.com/Extended-Precision-Optic-Mount_p_20.html

[Wake27]

If price isn’t a factor, I think the 1-10 Razor is the best thing on the market right now. Same weight as the Gen II-E with an extra 4x, FFP capability while excellent on 1x, and an easier magnification throw than the 1-6. I don’t have any time on NF or Khales, but have a hard time understanding why they’d be considered now that the Gen III Razor is out. The only thing I can see is weight, but I did a 5.5 mile run n gun with the 1-10 in a Badger C1 with offset MRDS on a 12.5 AR and didn’t feel like the gun was really weighing me down.


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[Defaultmp3]

If price isn’t a factor, I think the 1-10 Razor is the best thing on the market right now. Same weight as the Gen II-E with an extra 4x, FFP capability while excellent on 1x, and an easier magnification throw than the 1-6. I don’t have any time on NF or Khales, but have a hard time understanding why they’d be considered now that the Gen III Razor is out. The only thing I can see is weight, but I did a 5.5 mile run n gun with the 1-10 in a Badger C1 with offset MRDS on a 12.5 AR and didn’t feel like the gun was really weighing me down.Better than the S&B CCs or Minox ZP8? Can't throw Hensoldt in there yet since the ZF doesn't actually seem to be available for purchase.

Pressburg made the interesting argument that FFP LPVOs are kinda wack outside of weight considerations, as one could also simply get something like a Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 in a lower mount, throw an RDS on top, and get the best of both worlds.

[B Cart]

Pressburg made the interesting argument that FFP LPVOs are kinda wack outside of weight considerations, as one could also simply get something like a Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 in a lower mount, throw an RDS on top, and get the best of both worlds.

I think it just depends what you want to do with the rifle, and for a mid-long range focused AR, where most of your shooting will be at further distances, I think running something like the Mark 5 3-18 or Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 with an offset red dot is a great way to go.

That being said, the OP doesn't want a red dot combo, and there are a lot of great LPVOs. I haven't shot with the S&B or Minox, but i've shot with a bunch of others, including the NX8 1-8 and new Vortex Gen III 1-10, and I prefer the Gen III 1-10.

[Biggy]

*For me* the Kahles K16i (G4b) is still the best *overall* LPV scope out there from 0-400yds. I got mine (this last March) from sportoptics.com for $1719. *shipped* and no sales tax to the location I had it *shipped* to, (call them for their best pricing). If I needed an LPV with more magnification out past 400 yds, I would get the Vortex Razor 1-10x scope.

[Wake27]

Better than the S&B CCs or Minox ZP8? Can't throw Hensoldt in there yet since the ZF doesn't actually seem to be available for purchase.

Pressburg made the interesting argument that FFP LPVOs are kinda wack outside of weight considerations, as one could also simply get something like a Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 in a lower mount, throw an RDS on top, and get the best of both worlds.

I can't say for sure, but I think the Razor is very usable at 1x and 10x as well as everywhere in between. Considering that 1x seems to be the hardest thing to master for a FFP LPVO above 6x, I'm not sure what either could bring to the table, especially considering the price difference.

I've thought about the DMR optic concept since I've come to appreciate an offset RDS anyways. I think Vortex has a Viper 2.5-10 around the $800 mark that's obviously easier to stomach than the $2k price of the 1-10 but I don't actually have anything I'd consider a true DMR so my biggest consideration is always performance on 1x since the MRDS is a backup to me.

Based on reading alone (all of my hands on experience is limited to P4Xi, Razor 1-6, and Razor 1-10), I assume the ATACR is the closest competition because every comparison I've seen of the NX8 is tighter eye box, but you're still paying about another $1k and getting 2x less.

[B Cart]

I've thought about the DMR optic concept since I've come to appreciate an offset RDS anyways. I think Vortex has a Viper 2.5-10 around the $800 mark that's obviously easier to stomach than the $2k price of the 1-10 but I don't actually have anything I'd consider a true DMR so my biggest consideration is always performance on 1x since the MRDS is a backup to me.

I'm running a 3-18 scope/RDS combo on my .224 Valkyrie and really like it. Shooting CQB distances canted with a RDS is easier than i expected.