View Full Version : Recoil pad for special application
Steve_in_Allentown
12-30-20, 14:55
This is a unique issue that I've never had to deal with before so I'm turning to you folks for help.
I need to find a stock/recoil pad solution to eliminate as much recoil force as possible from being transmitted to the shooter's shoulder. I cannot use a muzzle device to achieve this objective.
The rifle is a Bravo Company AR with a Magpul collapsible stock and pad. Swapping out the stock and pad is not a problem if that is the solution.
Limbsaver makes a pad for certain Magpul stocks.
https://g4gguns.com/product/limbsaver-10025-ar-15m4-magpul-moectrstr-rubber-buttpad-black
https://lanbosarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18796 (add to cart for price)
Limbsaver makes a pad for certain Magpul stocks.
https://g4gguns.com/product/limbsaver-10025-ar-15m4-magpul-moectrstr-rubber-buttpad-black
https://lanbosarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18796 (add to cart for price)
Haven't tried the M4 pads, but I have used their slip on pad on an 8mm Mauser and their fitted pad on a pump 12ga and the difference was night and day.
Is adding weight an option?
Steve_in_Allentown
12-30-20, 17:26
Disciple, thanks for the Limbsaver links. I'll check them out tonight.
jsbhike, thanks for your personal experience observation. Adding weight is an option but I'm not sure where to add weight to this little carbine. Are your referring to the Kyntec buffer that drops into the buffer tube? I hadn't thought of those. Your post made me go on the Brownells website to see what they had. That's a definite possibility.
Perhaps a Limbsaver and a buffer combined would do the trick.
Limbsaver on my Benelli M1S90...real nice.
Sarvershooter
12-30-20, 18:28
Very timely. I just got a Cortisone injection for newly diagnosed bursitis shoulder impingement in my right shoulder. Thank you for the links.
Disciple, thanks for the Limbsaver links. I'll check them out tonight.
jsbhike, thanks for your personal experience observation. Adding weight is an option but I'm not sure where to add weight to this little carbine. Are your referring to the Kyntec buffer that drops into the buffer tube? I hadn't thought of those. Your post made me go on the Brownells website to see what they had. That's a definite possibility.
Perhaps a Limbsaver and a buffer combined would do the trick.
I was thinking of heavier components where possible. Quadrail instead of mlok, beefier optics mount, things like that.
There is also this as a concept since I doubt anything commercial is available for a carbine.
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/handguard-weight.html
Increasing the total gun weight is the most effective way to reduce felt recoil without using a brake.
You can temporarily add mass with adhesive weights designed for balancing tires:
https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-oz-wheel-weights-67225.html
Another vote for the limbsaver recoil pad as well.
Andy
Thick but pads won't do much on a rifle that doesn't have much recoil to start with. Weight will work but before you do anything try one of the shooting vest the clay shooters wear. Mine had a gel pad between the cloth layers in the shoulder pocket. These are good and not expensive. https://www.browning.com/products/outdoor-clothing/shooting_clothing/shooting_clothing_vests.html
jackblack73
12-31-20, 09:38
You can try switching to an A5 system or even rifle, if it’s not too long. Depending on the buffer and spring you have in there now changing to heavier ones could even tame recoil somewhat.
Limbsavers are great, but if they don't fit a slip on Pachmayr Decelerator Recoil Pad may.
64726
Also, you can buy a vest with gel pad in it, my shotgun shooting vest made with a pocket in a shoulder area. Gel pad I made myself from computer mouse pad.
Also, you can buy a vest with gel pad in it, my shotgun shooting vest made with a pocket in a shoulder area. Gel pad I made myself from computer mouse pad.
I guess you type without reading the earlier post.
just a scout
12-31-20, 20:04
FWIW, a Springco blue spring and heavier buffer makes a significant difference in felt recoil. I just proved that to a buddy with a brand new DD.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Increasing the total gun weight is the most effective way to reduce felt recoil without using a brake.
You can temporarily add mass with adhesive weights designed for balancing tires:
https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-oz-wheel-weights-67225.html
Another vote for the limbsaver recoil pad as well.
Andy
Yeah the stick on weights would work well. Stop by a tire shop and grab some lead ones and get more weight for the area versus steel or zinc.
Five_Point_Five_Six
01-01-21, 12:05
If it's shoulder related issues and the gun isn't gassed to death, the Vltor Modstock and slip on butt pad might be a good solution.
64740
Before anything, check to see which buffer the AR has. If it's a carbine weight buffer, replace it with an H2.
Carbine weight buffers are too light and the result is sharp recoil.
Increasing the overall weight of an AR will reduce free recoil, but may not help it feel any softer.
Steve_in_Allentown
01-02-21, 08:24
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and insights. I'll follow-up with the final solution and results. It'll probably be a month or more.
If the rifle is overgassed, a brt tuned gas tube will drastically smooth out the recoil.
I could not believe the difference before and after on my bcm 11.5.
The idea is to flatten the curve and make it longer... like covid lol.
Limb saver is my recommendation for a recoil pad.
My go to pad for shotguns, only two of my ARs have limbsavers as it’s kinda overkill but comfy.
Another option is the Fab Defense ‘recoil reducing’ stock. Never tried one but do have a Fab Def GL-CORE stock.
And of course, maybe an adjustable gas block or gas key? Stop the recoil at the source.
My first AR upper was a RRA 16” carbine HBAR, WAAAY over gassed. Not fun. So my next upper was the polar opposite, a BCM middy 14.5” pinned pencil profile. Uber light and half the recoil. Still my favorite.
Limb saver is my recommendation for a recoil pad.
My go to pad for shotguns, only two of my ARs have limbsavers as it’s kinda overkill but comfy.
Another option is the Fab Defense ‘recoil reducing’ stock. Never tried one but do have a Fab Def GL-CORE stock.
And of course, maybe an adjustable gas block or gas key? Stop the recoil at the source.
My first AR upper was a RRA 16” carbine HBAR, WAAAY over gassed. Not fun. So my next upper was the polar opposite, a BCM middy 14.5” pinned pencil profile. Uber light and half the recoil. Still my favorite.
I know this seems like I'm picking at nits, but it's an important nit. Reducing gas port diameter does not reduce recoil. In fact, by reducing mass (going to a lighter upper) you've increased recoil. Reducing the gas port only softened the recoil by reducing the impact (caused by over gassing) of the buffer against the receiver extension.
Steve_in_Allentown
04-19-21, 18:21
An interim update.
I put a Rubber City Armory adjustable gas key (https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/rca-adjustable-gas-key/) on a Bravo Company BCG from another rifle as a test. I adjusted the gas until there was reliable feeding and bolt lock-back. The result on felt recoil was obvious and dramatic. It felt like a .22LR. Because of this result I bought a low mass steel RCA BCG (https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/low-mass-complete-bcg-w-adjustable-gas-key/) that came with the adjustable gas key installed. I've not yet tested that BCG but expect even more recoil reduction.
I also bought a FAB Defense butt stock (https://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-buttstocks/id-208/m4-m16-shock-absorbing-buttstock.html), ground the recoil pad flat, and am waiting for a Limbsaver (https://limbsaver.com/collections/recoil-pads/products/classic-grind-to-fit-recoil-pad) 1" thick, grind-to-fit, medium +, Speed Mount pad to arrive. My intention is to glue the Limbsaver to the FAB pad. My problem is I don't know what glue will permanently adhere the plastic at the rear of the Limbsaver to the rubber of the FAB. If anyone knows for certain which adhesive will provide a permanent solution, please let me know.
Here's a pic of the FAB pad before I put it on the belt sander. It's now perfectly flat.
https://i.imgur.com/dvYYUhx.jpg
Thanks to Uncle Sugar I have no idea how many thousands of rounds of 5.56 I've put down range. I found the recoil to be of no consequence - unlike the 7.62. My experiment with the adjustable gas key really opened my eyes to why the 3-gun competition guys were falling all over themselves to get the latest and greatest adjustable gas blocks.
Steve, pick up some barge cement, its cheap and should work very well for you. You can always drill and throw a screw or two in it.
Glad things are working out for you.
Steve_in_Allentown
04-20-21, 10:09
More detail.
I was able to track down another FAB recoil pad that I could use to experiment on. I have also ordered a Limbsaver (https://limbsaver.com/collections/recoil-pads/products/classic-grind-to-fit-recoil-pad) 1" thick, grind-to-fit, medium +, Speed Mount pad to arrive. My objective is to glue the Limbsaver to the FAB pad. My problem is I don't know what glue will permanently adhere the plastic at the rear of the Limbsaver to the rubber of the FAB. If anyone knows for certain which adhesive will provide a permanent solution, please let me know.
The pictures below show the OEM pad to the left of the pad that has been modified to eliminate the "treads" to provide a flat surface to which the Limbsaver can be glued.
https://i.imgur.com/BkvMYXm.gif
Here's the Limbsaver pad. Note that the rubber pad is glued to a substantial plastic backing. When I suggested to the folks at Limbsaver that I wanted to separate the rubber from the plastic and just glue the rubber pad to the flattened surface of the FAB rubber pad they strongly advised against it because the soft Limbsaver pad needed the reinforcement of the plastic to maintain its shape. That's why finding the right glue to join the plastic of the Limbsaver to the rubber of the FAB is critical.
https://i.imgur.com/6ntVbpa.jpg
Unfortunately, I cannot directly screw the Limbsaver to the stock. The picture below of the rear of the stock shows why.
https://i.imgur.com/6U5eGAs.jpg
BARGE AP All Purpose Contact Cement has fixed many soles on shoes & slippers for me - do it outside or directly under an exhaust vent - you don’t want to inhale it
The LimbSaver recoil pad has one the fits the 6 position buttstock on an AR15.
https://limbsaver.com/collections/recoil-pads/products/ar-15-snap-on-recoil-pad
The recoil pad is kind of tough to get on while the pad is new but the stretches a bit over time to it is easier to put on.
Steve_in_Allentown
04-20-21, 16:30
Unfortunately, the snap on version isn't compatible with the FAB stock.
I still think you are barking up the wrong tree with the butt pads. They are made to reduce the felt recoil of guns the actually recoil. They will not be compliant enough to help you. How good they work on a shotgun will mean nothing in your application. Think about this way. If you could put the shock absorbers from a F350 on a Honda Civic how do you think the ride quality would be? I'll tell you... It would beat your fillings out!
BARGE AP All Purpose Contact Cement has fixed many soles on shoes & slippers for me - do it outside or directly under an exhaust vent - you don’t want to inhale it
It doesn’t seems like he is actually looking for answers.
Fully agree. I bought a Limbsaver pad for all of my shotguns and hard-kicking bolt rifles and it works great. Then thought I should get the version for my wife's standard M4 type stock and it didn't work very well. All it really did was make the LOP about an inch longer. Sold it.
I still think you are barking up the wrong tree with the butt pads. They are made to reduce the felt recoil of guns the actually recoil. They will not be compliant enough to help you. How good they work on a shotgun will mean nothing in your application. Think about this way. If you could put the shock absorbers from a F350 on a Honda Civic how do you think the ride quality would be? I'll tell you... It would beat your fillings out!
Yep, that's the one. Says "reduced felt recoil by up to 60%". Up to is right. I think I got only 10% maybe.
The LimbSaver recoil pad has one the fits the 6 position buttstock on an AR15.
https://limbsaver.com/collections/recoil-pads/products/ar-15-snap-on-recoil-pad
The recoil pad is kind of tough to get on while the pad is new but the stretches a bit over time to it is easier to put on.
Steve_in_Allentown
04-20-21, 21:49
It doesn’t seems like he is actually looking for answers.It's difficult to know who is credible on these forums so questions, like the ones I've posed, become a kind of survey to gather a variety of responses which can then be investigated to determine which can be discarded and which have merit.
Fully agree. I bought a Limbsaver pad for all of my shotguns and hard-kicking bolt rifles and it works great. Then thought I should get the version for my wife's standard M4 type stock and it didn't work very well.This makes sense. GH41's F350 shock absorber analogy helped me understand this.
I'm going to continue my recoil pad experiment just because I'm curious to see how it turns out.
I have replaced the recoil pads on my shotguns as well and it really makes a huge difference on my 590A1s.
The Limbsaver for Magpul stocks is a very soft rubber. It may not "reduce recoil" (technically I don't think it can?) but it is much more comfortable than a hard plastic stock against the clavicle.
Steve_in_Allentown
04-21-21, 08:29
The Limbsaver for Magpul stocks is a very soft rubber. It may not "reduce recoil" . . . but it is much more comfortable than a hard plastic stock against the clavicle.You nailed it.
Somebody double check my reasoning here. Limbsaver pads are squishy. As they compress the felt recoil impulse is spread out over a longer time period so rather than a short, intense smack the shooter experiences a longer, less intense smack. Sort of like a push instead of a hit.
I'm currently running down leads on Barge Cement, 3M adhesives, and Loctite adhesives.
i’ve found Barge cement in tubes at hardware stores, wallyworld and even in grocery stores - not hard to find.
Amazon sells it. Not sure what flavor to use but here is a link> https://www.bargeadhesive.com/products.html
i’ve used the squeeze tube - yellow with red lettering - one tube is more than enough for a butt pad unless you are extremely clumsy or can’t follow directions.
Yes, that sounds right. It's a double-edged sword, though, in my experience. With a 5.56 carbine, that squishy-ness doesn't translate into the fast follow up shots they are claiming. Matter of fact, I get way less dot bounce when I'm using a firm pad pulled really tight into my shoulder pocket. Seems to recover faster, if that makes sense. But, if you have your reasons why you need a lot more comfort, the Limbsaver is tough to beat.
Somebody double check my reasoning here. Limbsaver pads are squishy. As they compress the felt recoil impulse is spread out over a longer time period so rather than a short, intense smack the shooter experiences a longer, less intense smack. Sort of like a push instead of a hit.
If you want to increase rifle weight there are parts made for national match shooters. Geissele makes a MK7 NM rail that has internal routing brackets where you can mount supplied lead bars, similar to wheelwrights, on the inside of the rail. You can then balance that with a buttstock weight from White Oak Armament. Its a 3.5 piece of lead that is molded to the inside of an a2 stock. With these parts you can build an ar well over 15 pounds unloaded without optics. The limbsaver pad will help, although as others have said the difference is minimal. Low mass bcg's and adj gas blocks also help considerably.
OP why is it that you have to reduce the recoil? If it is for a health issue you can always adjust you stock placement. My dad had reconstructive shoulder surgery and he found that he could shoot any of his 556s by moving the buttstock from the shoulder pocket to more on his chest. He kind of rested the stock on the edge of his pec instead of the shoulder itself and that worked well enough for him until recovery. Just an idea and my 2c
Steve_in_Allentown
05-11-21, 16:17
I finally had enough of researching every adhesive known to man and grabbed a tube of E6000. I figured in the event of the worst case scenario (things didn't stick together) I could remove it easier than anything else. I smeared a layer of the stuff on the plastic plate of the Limbsaver and on the rubber surface of the OEM pad. Then I clamped them together and left the assembly alone for three full days at the end of which I set about shaping the Limbsaver to match the outline of the OEM pad using a bench belt sander. I didn't do a terrible job and I comfort myself knowing that there was no good way to attach the assembly to my Miles Gilbert Recoil Pad Installation Fixture.
Bottom line. The E6000 worked. The Limbsaver is very soft and pliable. Launching 12oz projectiles no longer feels like a 3" Magnum 12 gauge.
Here's a pic showing how it turned out. You can see the glue line between the plastic plate of the Limbsaver and the rubber of the OEM pad. I may get after that with some sandpaper. The fit between the two is actually very close. The glue is just what slopped over onto the exterior of the OEM pad.
https://i.imgur.com/sK2jDZb.jpg
Many thanks to everyone who offered their suggestions.
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