Shipping an 80% lower [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

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doc_ralston

01-11-21, 23:57

Can it be done legally, without a s/n? Probably the dumbest question you've heard all day, I know.

Diamondback

01-12-21, 00:57

If it's completely unmachined, yes. Once it's been so much as kissed by a drill-bit the Rubicon is crossed; until then it's just a hunk of metal or plastic.

ViniVidivici

01-13-21, 11:31

If it's completely unmachined, yes. Once it's been so much as kissed by a drill-bit the Rubicon is crossed; until then it's just a hunk of metal or plastic.

This.

munchie3409

01-13-21, 12:04

I am going to disagree as 80% lowers are not considered the firearm, so why would it matter if you did anything to that 80% lower? If you owned a 80% lower that you finished, you are also able to sell it as well. As long as you are not buying 80% lowers to finish so you can resell them.

If it's completely unmachined, yes. Once it's been so much as kissed by a drill-bit the Rubicon is crossed; until then it's just a hunk of metal or plastic.

jbjh

01-13-21, 16:17

I am going to disagree as 80% lowers are not considered the firearm, so why would it matter if you did anything to that 80% lower? If you owned a 80% lower that you finished, you are also able to sell it as well. As long as you are not buying 80% lowers to finish so you can resell them.

I think the point is that once it is above 80%, it becomes a firearm in the eyes of the law, and has to be dealt with as a firearm.

Just because a gun isn’t serialized doesn’t mean you can ship it.

Sent from 80ms in the future

utahjeepr

01-13-21, 17:51

If it is "80 percent" it is legally a lump of aluminum (or polymer). If any steps to complete beyond that have been performed you start sailing uncharted waters. I am not aware of any clearly defined boundary line in terms of law or regulation. Logically any degree short of completed would be incomplete and therefore not a firearm. But logic has very little to do with it.

MSW

01-13-21, 17:55

lysander

01-13-21, 19:52

I know Pennsylvania made 80% lowers a “firearm,” a couple years ago, but an injunction stopped it, temporarily. While federal law currently doesn’t consider them firearms, state laws may be different.
The problem with making an 80% receiver a "firearm" is define, legally, what a 80% of a receiver is. Then I just do 79% and voilà., I'm all legal again with a hunk of steel or aluminum.

And, if you engrave a serial number, your company's name on a random gun-shaped piece of aluminum, it doesn't make it a firearm, but engraving the outlines of pin holes apparently is.

MSW

01-13-21, 20:50

The problem with making an 80% receiver a "firearm" is define, legally, what a 80% of a receiver is. Then I just do 79% and voilà., I'm all legal again with a hunk of steel or aluminum.

And, if you engrave a serial number, your company's name on a random gun-shaped piece of aluminum, it doesn't make it a firearm, but engraving the outlines of pin holes apparently is.

Unfortunately, no. There is no legal definition of “80%,” it’s just a made up marketing term. ATF deemed 80% lowers a “non-firearm,” is all, no “80% percent.” Percent completion doesn’t legally exist. The push from the Antis is to make any “readily converted” easily machined with CNC tech a firearm. Spare parts, too. So, kits & “80%” marketing goes away.

Idiotic? Absolutely. Capricious? Correct. A 3/4” nipple can be made into a 12 gauge zip gun & a .25” nipple is a .22LR, so where does the lunacy end? With CNC CAD/CAM, a block of aluminum is a potential receiver. When the laws were made, CNC didn’t exist, so running a vertical mill was beyond the average gun owner to machine lowers.

It’s akin to the retarded plan of “armor piercing bullets” being redefined as “any projectile that can defeat soft body armor,” which includes all FMJ going over 2,000 fps, like most high power rifle FMJ.

I don’t agree with any of it—it’s just what the ATF claims & the antis have gun kits & spare parts in their sights; Biden will deliver. Don’t be surprised if proof of legal ownership is required for spare parts in the future.....

korosenai

11-27-21, 20:17

I know this is an old post but you can ship/sell a 80%Lower to anyone and anywhere as long as the state your shipping to laws also allow them to have an 80%Lower. Also it does not matter at all if you have already started the process of working on it for example (you bought a 80%Lower it finally shows up and before you even put the jig on your looking at it and decide you don’t have the time to do it then it’s still a new 80% and can be re sold and shipped to buyer or say you have already put the jig on the lower and drilled the pre holes on the top you know all the tiny holes some new step that some ppl do well say you did that part and said this is already too much and you stop and want to sell it well it has already been worked on but you haven’t finished it yet so it’s not a firearm not even close it just has a bunch of holes at the top that’s it so I can buy it from you and you can mail it to me legally and not have to worry about anything) so yes you can ship a 80%Lower hope this helps you out

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korosenai

12-21-21, 16:27

Hey boss trying to get ahold of you about the upper the slick upper you have posted I’ve messaged you twice you said me in post but can’t find a Emil please get ahold of me ASAP thank you

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Diamondback

12-21-21, 16:31

HKGuns

12-22-21, 07:39

I think a jury would have a tough time convicting someone who shipped an incomplete 80% lower.

I doubt there are many prosecutors who would take such a case to court.

But what do I know, I’m in non-compliance mode right now anyway.

It isn’t a firearm until it is a firearm.

utahjeepr

12-22-21, 12:33

There is a "solid" determination by the ATF that the stage commonly referred to as "80%" is not a firearm. Those can be shipped without any concern, as others have posted.

There is also a solid definition of a completed receiver. Which is a firearm, and must be treated as such.

Anything between these two points is questionable. There has been action taken by ATF, and some amount of case precedent. Most have been settled by agreements and pleas. Very soft legal ground.

As others have said, anything beyond "industry standard" of the so called "80%" standard is risky. That way lay dragons. Dragons in bullet proof vests and blue jackets.

Gotta wonder though. If an 80% is fully machined out, but done so poorly that it can never be completed, is it still a firearm?

Stickman

12-22-21, 13:23

Its an old thread, but what people are debating is whether or not they can send a piece of metal (aluminum) to someone else. Take the 80% out of the equation, because it is a less than legitimate term.

korosenai

12-23-21, 17:52

Hey doc just wanted to apologize I don’t realize my messages was full if your not busy please get in contact with me I sent you another message and my number as well if that will help any but I look forward to hearing from you thank you for your time and I do apologize

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