Help with multiple rifle configurations

[Gatorgrizz27]

Hi all, not new to AR’s but have been switching things up a bit lately primarily due to entering the NFA realm.

Primary rifle has been a PSA Premium/FN 14.5” upper on a lower I built with upgraded parts, it has a fixed FSP, Midwest drop in handguard, and Sig Romeo 5 sight. Have > 1,000 rounds with it and no significant issues.

I’ve got a Dead Air Sandman-S and Wolfman in suppressor jail, so I’ve been putting together an SBR upper using a Geissele stripped receiver, Sionics ERGP 11.5” barrel and BCG, Midwest free float handguard, and running an A5 buffer setup. Have an Aimpoint PRO on order for it also. This will most likely be run 100% suppressed with the Sandman-S.

This has driven me to upgrade my carbine, so I’ve swapped in a Geissele stripped upper, Sionics BCG, and A5 buffer also, basically matching the 11.5”. What I’m struggling with is what optic to run on it, either another Aimpoint PRO or a LPVO.

I’ve also got a Recce type/precision build with a Larue Stealth 14.5” barrel, Magpul UBR stock, and Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4 illuminated scope. I’m considering pulling a Mark AR 3-9 with illumination off another rifle and putting it on that Recce setup, then running the 1.5-4 on my carbine.

Issue is I’m not huge on running the scope with the FSP, and I also prefer the newer Midwest rails to the drop in I have. Is it worth removing everything, running a low pro gas block, free float rail, and scope? The pinned and welded flash hider isn’t a major issue as I need to swap the A2X out for a Dead Air Flash hider at some point anyways. Other option is to leave it as is, put another Aimpoint on top, and just keep using the Recce when I want magnification.

Basically what I’m getting at is given 11.5” and 14.5” carbines set up mostly identically, would you rather have one with a red dot and one with a scope, or red dots on both? Thanks for any help navigating this headache.

[Gatorgrizz27]

Hmm, lots of views, no replies. Let me try to simplify it some.

If you had a pair of “go to” rifles set up nearly identically, one being 11.5” one being 14.5”, would you prefer both of them setup with red dots or the 11.5” with a dot and the 14.5” with a LPVO?

Either way, you have another AR with a scope on it.

[opngrnd]

I'd probably stick with RDS on both. Concerning the FSB, you can always just shave it rather than swap it. It's not like a lo pro is going to be more secure than what you currently have.

[RHINOWSO]

For non-SBRs (and even some SBRs), I prefer magnified optics of the 1-6/8x variety of sufficient quality.

I have a couple of RDS on SBRs and yes you can hit at distance with them, assuming you know what your target is.

On a square range it's easy - the steel or paper opponent is down range.

Step away from that and it's not so easy.

[Gatorgrizz27]

Thanks for the replies so far. At this point I’m leaning towards putting the 1-4x Leupold on the 14.5” gun. #1, I don’t ever really travel places where I couldn’t bring an SBR if I was attending a class, etc, so there’s very few times I’d want to grab the longer rifle for close quarters situations. Might as well have a bit more flexibility. #2, I think my Recce setup could also use some more magnification as I need to work up a load for it with the ammo shortage (have supplies for that), which means the 1-4x would come off and need a home anyways. The reticle completely covers a 1” dot at 100 yards, it was fairly difficult to qualify with for the longer ranges.

I’d considered just shaving the FSB, but it’s really the only convenient place to mount a light with a mid-length rail, so you’ve got to address that and BUIS anyways. With the muzzle device being swapped, it’s not a huge deal to remove it and add a free float rail. I do like the “bombproof ness” of the fixed front sight and drop in aluminum handguard, but perhaps that’s overrated. Gas blocks on both of these rifles will end up being pinned once everything is solidified.

That being said, I’m not 100% on board with using a scope for “target id” in a civilian context. Coming from a hunting background, you use binoculars to survey things, you don’t use a rifle to “look at stuff” until you intend to shoot. I get in a LEO/MIL setting it’s very different, you might be watching two people argue and seeing if the situation diffuses or one suddenly draws a pistol.

I don’t intend to glass someone walking through my backyard with a scope to find out it’s my neighbor looking for his cat (has happened). I also think in most self/home defense scenarios happening at extended distances, there are thresholds that once crossed it doesn’t really matter what happens. If a guy is approaching from 100 yards away and doesn’t stop when commanded to, I don’t really care if he’s armed or not if he keeps coming within a certain distance.

[JediGuy]

If a guy is approaching from 100 yards away and doesn’t stop when commanded to, I don’t really care if he’s armed or not if he keeps coming within a certain distance.

I’m not sure most people can command anyone to do anything at 100 yards.

[RHINOWSO]

I’m not sure most people can command anyone to do anything at 100 yards.

Or how about hearing some dude yelling a football field away? Most would try to close the distance to hear what the **** they are say...

Personally I gain a lot more than the oft assume "target ID" from a scope. Far easier to ensure I'm hitting the hog / deer / other animal for a clean kill with a magnified optic than a RDS.

But then again where I live, one often grabs an AR for pest control (hogs, yotes, etc) far more often than any potential SD scenario - but I pretty much grab the same rifle regardless of what is going on.

Anyway OP, do what you feel is right for your situation.

[ViniVidivici]

Hmm, lots of views, no replies. Let me try to simplify it some.

If you had a pair of “go to” rifles set up nearly identically, one being 11.5” one being 14.5”, would you prefer both of them setup with red dots or the 11.5” with a dot and the 14.5” with a LPVO?

Either way, you have another AR with a scope on it.

I'd go a dot on the shorty and LPVO on the other, 1-4 or 1-6 at most.

[Wake27]

I’m a big believer in filling capability gaps, especially if two things can accomplish one objective. For example, a dot will be faster for most people under most situations but LPVOs reign in many other circumstances. There are absolutely good LPVOs that can do both well, you’ll just have to pay for them.

Dot on the shorty and LPVO gets my vote but I’d recommend going Viper Gen II or P4Xi level at least.


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[gaijin]

The Leupold will be a disappointment with the 1.5 rather than a true 1X.
In my eyes using it is making due rather than choosing the correct tool for the job.

[17K]

Go-to for me means it’s a bump in the night or self defense tool.

Red dot for me.

[matemike]

I'd keep a RDS on the 11.5 and not change that for bump in the night
LPVO on the 14.5 for varmits...more likely to be at distance

my three main sticks are 11.5 BCM with T1, 16" S&W with 4x acog (fsb does not interfere), and a 14.5" with carry handle and fsb.

[RHINOWSO]

The Leupold will be a disappointment with the 1.5 rather than a true 1X.
In my eyes using it is making due rather than choosing the correct tool for the job.

Yeah the Mark AR series is 'meh'.

[GHMann]

I would put RDS on both and get used to and familiar with the one system. Unless you are planning on doing some varmint hunting, then a scope might be useful on the longer AR.

[MegademiC]

I did rds on 11.5 and lpvo on a 14.5.

[Gatorgrizz27]

Thanks for the input. Somehow it just dawned on me that I can simply swap the upper on that has the scope mounted and shoot it back to back with the red dot equipped upper to see how I like it. I was thinking I’d have to pull it off, mount it, zero it, and then imagine how it would be without a FSB in the way.

[RHINOWSO]

You certainly can, but don't kid yourself that 1.5x is anything like 1x.

It's a lot different using a quality 1x LPVO than a 1.5x.

[Stickman]

Using a 1-4x or 1-6x on your 14.5 gives you a lot of flexibility, and I would tend to go that route.

However, and its a big one, no one really knows what you needs or uses are, which makes it hard for us to give solid answers that will work for you. If you eyes are like eagles, maybe a RDO is the end all answer for you. If you already have a RDO for both, maybe a magnifier is the answer for your needs. If you have an astigmatism (which a lot more people do than they know), a LPVO becomes an easy answer. Then again, maybe the answer is a 2.5-10 or 3-9 is a better answer if you enjoy shooting at distance. If the longest range you have around you for shooting is 50 yard, that changes things compared to having a 500 yard KD range in your backyard.

[Gatorgrizz27]

Figured I’d update this, as well as roll in another question. I haven’t had time to do any comparison drills with a red dot vs the 1-4x Leupold, but I did shoot it out to 400 yards on the rifle it’s currently mounted on (Recce type 14.5), and it did fine on steel so I may leave it alone. Played with it some inside the house and I agree that the 1.5x low end causes some issues up close, not sure how far out that goes away but I’m guessing 10-15 yards.

The Aimpoint PRO I ordered showed up and I’m pretty sure it’s going to end up living on my 14.5” with the FSB still intact, I like the “bulletproof ness” of that gun and don’t feel like swapping everything around, it’s proven at this point.

So that leaves the 11.5” SBR still needing an optic. I’m worried about bulk and weight with another PRO on there, so I’m considering a Trijicon MRO instead. I know a lot of people are fans of them, but they “might” be considered a step below the Aimpoints in terms of durability and they can have more significant parallax.

I’ve looked at the Aimpoint T2’s but am having a hard time spending the extra $300, and I’m not sure I’ll like the smaller FOV. Thoughts?

[JediGuy]

MRO’s are fine. Aimpoint T-2/H-2 are technically better in one area at least, parallax, but I happen to like the effect of the MRO’s larger objective lens and the substantially lower cost enough to compromise on the MRO.

Though I regret selling a CompM3, I have never really seen any appeal to the PRO.

[slowrx]

I didn't read all the replies but this is my opinion, run a magnified optic on one. If you are already going to take the pinned muzzle device off for a dead air, why not just do the rest of the upgrades while you have it apart and nullify your FSP issue. I have more AR's than I care to admit but my 3 primary shooters are all run suppressed and are basically this
1. 11.5 with a red dot set up for NVG use
2. 11.5 with just a red dot and light
3. 16 inch with 2.5-10