LMT's Estonian contract rifle (video)

[Slater]

Shot counter technology has come way farther that I would have thought:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opf9M70d3uA

[Hank6046]

I saw this. Pretty thoughtful and forward thinking concept and great to hear that its from LMT, I hope they license this to whomever and make a killing doing it. Also, seems like a nice rifle, I would love one before they are banned.

[ccosby]

I'm interested in trying the pistol system on the 308 platform. Kinda want to see how well it runs suppressed.

[Bret]

I hope they continue to do well with the contracts. That rifle has a lot of cool features, but it would be very difficult to sell many on the consumer market for $2,600.

[chuckman]

I just saw a pic of Estonia's new Prime Minister. I will happily take the rifles over myself if I could meet up.

[Eurodriver]

On topic though - what good does a shot counter do?

[LMT Shooter]

I just saw a pic of Estonia's new Prime Minister. I will happily take the rifles over myself if I could meet up.

Wow, she's very attractive. Never in a million years would I have guessed that Estonian Prime Minister = hot chick.

[LMT Shooter]

On topic though - what good does a shot counter do?

In the video it is explained as a way to have an accurate round count, including dry fire & blanks, for maintenance. It sounds like an excellent idea for that purpose.

[Slater]

The counters themselves aren't terribly expensive. The reader, though, will run you a few bucks.

[chuckman]

Wow, she's very attractive. Never in a million years would I have guessed that Estonian Prime Minister = hot chick.

Nope. I expected Borat or something. Even a female version of Borat.

[awmp]

Looks like a solid built rifle, curious about the .308 version as others have mentioned it as well.

[JSantoro]

On topic though - what good does a shot counter do?

Let's face it, there's no shortage of individuals AND organizations too lazy or stupid to keep round-counts by tearing off and annotating how many box-tops worth of ammo they shot. My maintenance cycle is based off of 1500-3000 rounds of throughput, but I don't need the counter because my procedure IS my counter. Pretty blood-simple, but even that is too much for...well, MOST, frankly, it seems.

RUTGERS, I zapped your Gen Discussion (this is AR GD...) brain-droppings and the results of same. Please go be politically obtuse elsewhere, thanks bunches; don't try to start it up again, here. Only warning.

[Bantee]

Stupid question for our LE/MIL peeps, say you have these rifles fielded with shot counters, & upon scanning several units, find that there are several with say..15,000 live rounds down the tube...would most agencies/orgs proactively replace barrels/bolts, & other related wear items at that round count??..or would most still choose to run them to failure, despite having hard data??
Fwiw I think the tech involved is amazing, & could be useful for large organizations, if preventive maintenance is actually done by the data logged??

[Eurodriver]

Let's face it, there's no shortage of individuals AND organizations too lazy or stupid to keep round-counts by tearing off and annotating how many box-tops worth of ammo they shot. My maintenance cycle is based off of 1500-3000 rounds of throughput, but I don't need the counter because my procedure IS my counter. Pretty blood-simple, but even that is too much for...well, MOST, frankly, it seems.


That’s exactly my point. It’s so simple - why gum it up with an expensive counter and more parts on each rifle? It would be easier, faster, and cheaper to just maintain them the old fashioned way. Most courses of fire have known round counts anyway. I can’t imagine Estonia just hands out thousands of rounds of ammo to troops and says “ok go shoot”.

I guess we are too simple minded for the intellectually savvy, complex .gov entities of land locked Eastern Europe countries.


Stupid question for our LE/MIL peeps, say you have these rifles fielded with shot counters, & upon scanning several units, find that there are several with say..15,000 live rounds down the tube...would most agencies/orgs proactively replace barrels/bolts, & other related wear items at that round count??..or would most still choose to run them to failure, despite having hard data??
Fwiw I think the tech involved is amazing, & could be useful for large organizations, if preventive maintenance is actually done by the data logged??

Can’t speak for LE or specialized .mil but nobody would ever preemptively replace a bolt or a barrel on an issued rifle no matter the round count unless it was experiencing issues. That would require a trip to 3rd echelon repair.

Further, a big army or POG USMC rifle would take damn near 20 years or more to shoot 15,000 rounds lol.

[Arik]

That’s exactly my point. It’s so simple - why gum it up with an expensive counter and more parts on each rifle? It would be easier, faster, and cheaper to just maintain them the old fashioned way. Most courses of fire have known round counts anyway. I can’t imagine Estonia just hands out thousands of rounds of ammo to troops and says “ok go shoot”.

I guess we are too simple minded for the intellectually savvy, complex .gov entities of land locked Eastern Europe countries.



Can’t speak for LE or specialized .mil but nobody would ever preemptively replace a bolt or a barrel on an issued rifle no matter the round count unless it was experiencing issues. That would require a trip to 3rd echelon repair.

Further, a big army or POG USMC rifle would take damn near 20 years or more to shoot 15,000 rounds lol.
Let's face it, there's no shortage of individuals AND organizations too lazy or stupid to keep round-counts by tearing off and annotating how many box-tops worth of ammo they shot. My maintenance cycle is based off of 1500-3000 rounds of throughput, but I don't need the counter because my procedure IS my counter. Pretty blood-simple, but even that is too much for...well, MOST, frankly, it seems.

RUTGERS, I zapped your Gen Discussion (this is AR GD...) brain-droppings and the results of same. Please go be politically obtuse elsewhere, thanks bunches; don't try to start it up again, here. Only warning.I'm guessing that when you have more than one person handling the equipment it's easier for a computer to do the counting.

You rip the tab off and save it but it's yours anyway. Cop draws a rifle from the weapons room then has to return it. Next shift it's someone else. If it's used in training then that cop has to remember to hand in his tabs with the rifle which the armorer has to keep together with that rifle, at least until counted and logged. The more people that handle it the more it's going to get screwed up.

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[Slater]

As far as shot counters, looks like there are various companies out there working on the technology:

https://weaponlogic.ai/products/

[Bret]

I guess we are too simple minded for the intellectually savvy, complex .gov entities of land locked Eastern Europe countries.
For the record, Estonia isn't land locked. In fact it has more coastal border than land border. I don't know what that has to do with the subject at hand anyway.


Can’t speak for LE or specialized .mil but nobody would ever preemptively replace a bolt or a barrel on an issued rifle no matter the round count unless it was experiencing issues. That would require a trip to 3rd echelon repair.
Right. Isn't that what erosion gauges are for? There are also tools to test spring strength, so I don't see how the round count device really helps in that regard.

[Arik]

Right. Isn't that what erosion gauges are for? There are also tools to test spring strength, so I don't see how the round count device really helps in that regard.

Simplifies that. Like an oil change. At least the way I see it. My car says change oil after 5k and I do. Gun shows 10k and you know springs XYZ need changing

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[Steve Shannon]

My guess (and that’s all it is) is that the round counter is there so the military can tell what their soldiers are doing rather than for maintenance. Perhaps they are supposed to be shooting some number of training rounds each month and the military has had a problem with training records being falsified.


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[Slater]

The Estonians ordered 16,000 rifles. Compared to larger countries that doesn't seem like a tremendous amount. Data tracking should be even easier (I would imagine).