View Full Version : Do masks really work?
Does the mask you are wearing to guard against the chinese virus really work? Try this... seal the mask material around your mouth with your fingers and see if you can breath in and out normally. Now remove your fingers and breath. Think path of least resistance. Based on my own tests, the air I'm inhaling and exhaling isn't being filtered by the mask. At best, the masking is only capturing the water vapor of my breath, which is one way to stem the spread of the virus. Military protective masks and respirators, on the other hand, have sufficient seals around one's face to force the air to enter through the filters and exit through a one-way valve. Wearing more than one mask or a mask with a filter won't "filter" out pathogens. What do you think?
I don't think the concept is to filter the virus, it is to reduce the distance droplets from your breath travel. The scientific consensus is that masks protect other people, not the wearer.
I agree that the non-N95 masks are pretty poor for anything except sawdust.
Andy
Not wearing one has worked for me.
They really only work if used in conjunction with dark sunglasses, hoodie and gloves, preferably with no logos or other unique identifying characteristics.
https://www.discoverweyburn.com/images/stories/DWE_images/News/August2018/armedrobbery4.jpg
SomeOtherGuy
01-27-21, 12:35
Suggested reading, and extensive links to research papers, at:
https://wmbriggs.com/post/32326/
https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses
Baccam, P. et al. (2006) "Kinetics of Influenza A Virus Infection in Humans", Journal of Virology Jul 2006, 80 (15) 7590-7599; DOI: 10.1128/JVI.01623-05
Balazy et al. (2006) "Do N95 respirators provide 95% protection level against airborne viruses, and how adequate are surgical masks?", American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 34, Issue 2, March 2006, Pages 51-57. doi:10.1016/j.ajic.2005.08.018
Biggerstaff, M. et al. (2014) "Estimates of the reproduction number for seasonal, pandemic, and zoonotic influenza: a systematic review of the literature", BMC Infect Dis 14, 480 (2014).
Brooke, C. B. et al. (2013) "Most Influenza A Virions Fail To Express at Least One Essential Viral Protein", Journal of Virology Feb 2013, 87 (6) 3155-3162; DOI: 10.1128/JVI.02284-12
Coburn, B. J. et al. (2009) "Modeling influenza epidemics and pandemics: insights into the future of swine flu (H1N1)", BMC Med 7, 30.
Davies, A. et al. (2013) "Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?", Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness, Available on CJO 2013 doi:10.1017/dmp.2013.43
Despres, V. R. et al. (2012) "Primary biological aerosol particles in the atmosphere: a review", Tellus B: Chemical and Physical Meteorology, 64:1, 15598, DOI: 10.3402/tellusb.v64i0.15598
Dowell, S. F. (2001) "Seasonal variation in host susceptibility and cycles of certain infectious diseases", Emerg Infect Dis. 2001;7(3):369-374. doi:10.3201/eid0703.010301
Hammond, G. W. et al. (1989) "Impact of Atmospheric Dispersion and Transport of Viral Aerosols on the Epidemiology of Influenza", Reviews of Infectious Diseases, Volume 11, Issue 3, May 1989, Pages 494-497,
Haas, C.N. et al. (1993) "Risk Assessment of Virus in Drinking Water", Risk Analysis, 13: 545-552. doi:10.1111/j.1539-6924.1993.tb00013.x
HealthKnowlege-UK (2020) "Charter 1a - Epidemiology: Epidemic theory (effective & basic reproduction numbers, epidemic thresholds) & techniques for analysis of infectious disease data (construction & use of epidemic curves, generation numbers, exceptional reporting & identification of significant clusters)", HealthKnowledge.org.uk, accessed on 2020-04-10.
Lai, A. C. K. et al. (2012) "Effectiveness of facemasks to reduce exposure hazards for airborne infections among general populations", J. R. Soc. Interface. 9938-948
Leung, N.H.L. et al. (2020) "Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks", Nature Medicine (2020).
Lowen, A. C. et al. (2007) "Influenza Virus Transmission Is Dependent on Relative Humidity and Temperature", PLoS Pathog 3(10): e151.
Paules, C. and Subbarao, S. (2017) "Influenza", Lancet, Seminar| Volume 390, ISSUE 10095, P697-708, August 12, 2017.
Sande, van der, M. et al. (2008) "Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population", PLoS ONE 3(7): e2618. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0002618 Shaman, J. et al. (2010) "Absolute Humidity and the Seasonal Onset of Influenza in the Continental United States", PLoS Biol 8(2): e1000316. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.1000316
Tracht, S. M. et al. (2010) "Mathematical Modeling of the Effectiveness of Facemasks in Reducing the Spread of Novel Influenza A (H1N1)", PLoS ONE 5(2): e9018. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0009018
Viboud C. et al. (2010) "Preliminary Estimates of Mortality and Years of Life Lost Associated with the 2009 A/H1N1 Pandemic in the US and Comparison with Past Influenza Seasons", PLoS Curr. 2010; 2:RRN1153. Published 2010 Mar 20. doi:10.1371/currents.rrn1153
Wada, K. et al. (2012) "Wearing face masks in public during the influenza season may reflect other positive hygiene practices in Japan", BMC Public Health 12, 1065 (2012).
Yang, W. et al. (2011) "Concentrations and size distributions of airborne influenza A viruses measured indoors at a health centre, a day-care centre and on aeroplanes", Journal of the Royal Society, Interface. 2011 Aug;8(61):1176-1184. DOI: 10.1098/rsif.2010.0686.
Yezli, S., Otter, J.A. (2011) "Minimum Infective Dose of the Major Human Respiratory and Enteric Viruses Transmitted Through Food and the Environment", Food Environ Virol 3, 1-30.
Zwart, M. P. et al. (2009) "An experimental test of the independent action hypothesis in virus-insect pathosystems", Proc. R. Soc. B. 2762233-2242
Yes, no, maybe so.
Depends on the mask, depends on the virulence, depends on the distance, so many factors to say 'yes' or 'no'.
None of the non-N95 masks do a whole lot but there are a couple compelling articles about how while they may not prevent spread significantly, they do reduce the viral load, so if you get it, it's not as bad. We also know this to be true with other diseases.
It doesn't matter if they work or not. Mask mandates are political. Douchebag POSIC has to do "something", so he/she issues a mask mandate. Noncompliance, arguing effectivness, or any other forms of insurrection cannot be tolerated.
Comply, wear your burka, placebo is become law.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-27-21, 15:35
Does the mask you are wearing to guard against the chinese virus really work? Try this... seal the mask material around your mouth with your fingers and see if you can breath in and out normally. Now remove your fingers and breath. Think path of least resistance. Based on my own tests, the air I'm inhaling and exhaling isn't being filtered by the mask. At best, the masking is only capturing the water vapor of my breath, which is one way to stem the spread of the virus. Military protective masks and respirators, on the other hand, have sufficient seals around one's face to force the air to enter through the filters and exit through a one-way valve. Wearing more than one mask or a mask with a filter won't "filter" out pathogens. What do you think?
I think in aggregate their use will collectively reduce the overall transmission rate. The problem I have is that that is not how they are being sold, or why people seem to insist on everyone wearing one. There is a lot of blame that if you don’t wear a mask that’s why you got sick. These improvised exhale devices are not protective. But I see people insisting that they are being protected by them. This includes old people and people with comorbidities. If you are at serious risk of a fatal outcome, the masked you wear and the masks other people where are not going to protect you.
On the one hand the mask give us a false sense of security and control, and the other I feel like they are implemented to show that we are doing “something“ to protect people so that we can allow them out and about. Without the silly masks all the lemmings would wonder what they were being protected by.
The proof can be found by looking at the seasonality and where outbreaks of happened. The wearing of masks and the distancing doesn’t seem to have as large affect as especially the time of year. But if you don’t mandate masks it’s kind of literally the emperor has no clothes.
The real issue is that we have not been able to ramp up N95 mask production. Frankly I think you need 1 billion a week to cover over 300 million population. So you better have a 20 billion stock pile. We just don’t have the capacity right now. I have a buddy who is an expert in the production of non-woven fabrics. He can literally go over all the facilities that can make materials for and 95 masks and what their capacities are. We simply don’t have enough. Considering the trillions we’re spending, a couple billion to build that capacity for the next pandemic that is actually the 5% killer and the society disabler is what we need to be shooting for.
I’m not anti-mask, so much as I am anti Highpoint quality masks. Colt masks for all!
Like communism failing, they now say we just weren’t doing it hard enough.
So shut up and wear TWO masks you science deniers.
Not a joke. NO REALLY, I’m not joking, look it up.
our world will be destroyed in 12 years because of MAN MADE climate change ! if you believe that then masks are our savior bow to your new lords !
if you realize driving is much more dangerous then you realize the masks do not work but might help a seat belt won't stop you from getting in a accident but it might help you survive it
now lets take your health if you are in a accident do you want to be rear ended in a 1974 pinto or a new modern car !
do you want to be in a 55MPH head on in a 1960 VW bus or a modern truck
these are choices that can help you survive !
again health is the thing that we can control and do so much to save us ! sure you can point to some cases of folks that looked healthy having issues but I am going to say looking healthy and being healthy are not the same and many are not by true lab standards etc...
cut out the seed oils cut out the processed foods and sugars as the base to start
the margin slims to a sliver for folks truly metabolic healthy by what studies they are doing and they are trying to now allow these
I do think the health industry finance machine does not make money off you if you are healthy but they do for chronic sickness and prescribing pills as the cure etc...
no doubt modern medicine is a miracle when needed but to often its not proper health is what is needed
so do they work NO its like putting up a chain link fence to keep mosquitos out as one virologist said
but it will keep other critters out and slow some things but if we weren't so sickly our defenses would help us more
is it real YES
is it the problem they are making it out to be NO
is it about never let a crisis go to waste YES
is it political DUH
only %12 of Americans they say are metabolically healthy that is scary but hey keep believing in the crap they say is good
frommycolddeadhand post above is solid !!!
They really only work if used in conjunction with dark sunglasses, hoodie and gloves, preferably with no logos or other unique identifying characteristics.
https://www.discoverweyburn.com/images/stories/DWE_images/News/August2018/armedrobbery4.jpg
I tend to use basic black neck gaiters myself. Are they effective at stopping transmission of Covid? I dunno, but they are effective at keeping the Karens off my back as gaiters fulfill the face-covering requirements. Having a socially acceptable excuse to conceal my identity has actually been kinda nice.
I tend to use basic black neck gaiters myself. Are they effective at stopping transmission of Covid? I dunno, but they are effective at keeping the Karens off my back as gaiters fulfill the face-covering requirements. Having a socially acceptable excuse to conceal my identity has actually been kinda nice.
hahahaha I have been trying to find a merino wool one for the winter that does not make my neck itch :) funny I can wear it in socks and thermals but they bug my face and neck ?
so I do have some more synthetic ones that work OK
agree on the points %100 works for the karens it works for I just keep it on me and it works for the sign on the door idiocy
curious what brand you have and if it breathes super easy :) cause ya know that means its working :) hahhahaha
hahahaha I have been trying to find a merino wool one for the winter that does not make my neck itch :) funny I can wear it in socks and thermals but they bug my face and neck ?
so I do have some more synthetic ones that work OK
agree on the points %100 works for the karens it works for I just keep it on me and it works for the sign on the door idiocy
curious what brand you have and if it breathes super easy :) cause ya know that means its working :) hahhahaha
I bought like a six pack of them off Amazon. Just some generic brand IIRC. I usually double it over my nose and mouth when I’m in public, because the material is actually pretty thin. I even bought a couple white ones too for when I want to don my schneetarn and play Simo Häyhä in the woods.
Avoiding other people as much as possible is actually my most important anti-Covid strategy. So I guess I’ve been preparing for Covid my whole life....
Evel Baldgui
01-27-21, 17:13
Yes, they may or may not work. As was mentioned in previous post, the main advantage of concealing your identity is pretty cool, especially with an evil joker or venom gaiter :-)
I bought like a six pack of them off Amazon. Just some generic brand IIRC. I usually double it over my nose and mouth when I’m in public, because the material is actually pretty thin. I even bought a couple white ones too for when I want to don my schneetarn and play Simo Häyhä in the woods.
Avoiding other people as much as possible is actually my most important anti-Covid strategy. So I guess I’ve been preparing for Covid my whole life....
I try to avoid most people even before just to keep my sanity
Black_Sheep
01-27-21, 22:48
Minnesota has had a statewide mask mandate since late July, it doesn't appear to have any effect on the spread. My unscientific opinion is that it provides a false sense of security because the effectiveness of neck gaiters, disposable paper and craft show masks that people are using are not comparable to N95 masks. Not to mention, people are pigs.
https://i.imgur.com/kztfTQJ.jpg
Yep. The mask program is silly nonsense. A quality mask could protect, but this charade of cheap chinese and fashion masks is just a way to make stupid people feel safe.
I think masks have the opposite effect as desired. It seems like a lot of people think that wearing a mask is the only preventative measure required.
Andy
I think masks have the opposite effect as desired. It seems like a lot of people think that wearing a mask is the only preventative measure required.
Andy
Absolutely Agree. Dumb asses think they're bullet proof and can do anything as long as their chinese mask is in place.
ChattanoogaPhil
01-28-21, 12:07
Do masks work?
Do mask mandates work?
Two entirely different questions.
Do masks work?
Do mask mandates work?
Two entirely different questions.
With the exact same answer! :dirol:
With the exact same answer! :dirol:Mask mandates work better than masks. Forcing people to wear them has been relatively easy. Most major, and small, stores require masks to enter. Some small businesses won't hassle you if you don't but that the exception not the rule. Unless you live in a one horse town or shop online only chances are you're wearing a mask.
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Grand58742
01-29-21, 07:35
Mask mandates work better than masks. Forcing people to wear them has been relatively easy. Most major, and small, stores require masks to enter. Some small businesses won't hassle you if you don't but that the exception not the rule. Unless you live in a one horse town or shop online only chances are you're wearing a mask.
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I think that greatly depends on where you live though. Out here in OK, yeah, the big box stores are "mandatory" but rarely enforced.
My local grocery store is about 1/3rd masked, 2/3rds not masked.
I think that greatly depends on where you live though. Out here in OK, yeah, the big box stores are "mandatory" but rarely enforced.
My local grocery store is about 1/3rd masked, 2/3rds not masked.True. Here in South East PA you won't find many unmasked. Not only have people gotten used to it but no one wants to run back and forth to their car. Home Depot used to not say anything and in the summer I've seen one or two people walking around without a mask but someone must have complained because for a while now there's been a "greeter" by the door welcoming you, offering hand sanitizer and obviously observing for masks.
The Wawa (like 711) I stop at every morning for coffee has had an occasional person without a mask. No one says anything and doesn't seem like anyone actually cares. However, a coworker stopped at a different Wawa and happened to forget about the mask. He got screamed at by male Karen!
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Areas of NC still largely unmasked, the western parts, and the coast. Recent weekend getaway to the beach, almost no one except hotel desk clerks were wearing masks, and they didn't say squat about it. It seems the further you get out of the urban areas, the less an issue it is.
Averageman
01-29-21, 09:12
I'm sorry, not of these "Orders" hold the legal weight of Law. I have said, I will stand right here without a mask and you go call corporate and ask WTF the Americans with disabilities Act is and what my Attorney will do to you in a courtroom.
Usually they just step aside.
The very fact that wearing one is no longer enough and we not have to wear two tells you everything you need to know. I just hope these mask Nazis get to a point where they start wearing plastic bags.
Masks are really good at increasing rates of bacterial pneumonia tho. My wife has seen a huge increase in angular cheilitis in her patients which is entirely mask related.
Areas of NC still largely unmasked, the western parts, and the coast. Recent weekend getaway to the beach, almost no one except hotel desk clerks were wearing masks, and they didn't say squat about it. It seems the further you get out of the urban areas, the less an issue it is.
Only store so far to hassle me was Best Buy in Knightdale.
The_War_Wagon
01-30-21, 10:04
Ask the boss - his wife's a... "doctor." :rolleyes:
https://i.ibb.co/KbLZZq6/biden-wears-mask.jpg
ChattanoogaPhil
01-30-21, 11:08
I'm not so dismissive about the potential effectiveness of wearing a mask.
My wife went to the doctor with an ongoing heart problem. From there she was sent by ambulance to the ER. It was so crowded that the halls were lined with patients on gurneys. I was glad she was wearing a well-fitting N95 mask when she went in to see the doctor and while at the ER.
If it was your wife (presuming you're on good terms haha) wouldn't you prefer she was wearing a protective mask?
My wife went to the doctor with an ongoing heart problem. From there she was sent by ambulance to the ER. It was so crowded that the halls were lined with patients on gurneys. I was glad she was wearing a well-fitting N95 mask when she went into see the doctor and while at the ER.
For sure. But the general population of morons wearing cheap masks just to feel compliant and get a false sense of safety is different.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-30-21, 11:42
I have been wearing n95 and Kn95 masks since the beginning of this. I just fork out the bucks. They really aren't even that expensive if you keep an eye out. I bought a bunch at a small town auction right at the beginning of all this mess and have supplemented with K95. I have never worn the cloth or surgical masks, because I haven't had too. I suspect if I n/k95 masks were more difficult to procure I might have worn a combo face shield and cloth mask. I really don't see why I wouldn't. It's the same reason I carry a j-frame to the bathroom in my own house--I probably won't need it...but why the hell not? The way I look at it, the masks give you the equivalent of a little more distance. I keep back, and am scrupulous about washing my hands. Honestly, if we all just stayed 5-6 foot back and kept up with our hygiene I suspect we would all be a lot healthier for all kinds of reasons.
I absolutely make sure that my wife and daughter are masked when they go in public (also n95/K95). I also make sure they obey the distancing and hand washing rules. I basically was a nazi about people touching their eyes and face but they (and myself) have gotten a lot better about this.
I have noticed this last year that all of us have had zero colds or fevers or flus. This is highly unusual in this household. I suspect (although I will never know) that is a result of 1. Masking/social distancing, 2. These procedures being followed closely in our daughters school, 3. Less cavalier attitude towards touching things in public, etc. I give the general public and businesses some credit but obviously, a lot of folks are not following the protocols for various reasons (1. Don't care, 2. Already had covid, 3. Political statement (probably the dumbest people), 4. poverty). Again, could just be a coincidence. I follow Farnam's rules about not going places where there is trouble and it has kept me out of gunfights. Again, might be a coincidence.
Obviously, just like in the gun world, you can never push your risk to zero. There are always tradeoffs. I just don't see any real downsides to masking up. Hell, I was paranoid about facial monitoring and now we have moved into a time where you can dress like a train robber and nobody cares. lol.
I suspect I or a member of my family will catch it at some point. But even then, the steps I have taken may have bought me enough time to where now medical professionals have many more tools. At the beginning, people were wondering if we should be drinking fishtank chemicals. Now we have some stuff that is really helpful. It might make the difference, hell it might not. Again, just like a gun. You might train and carry the best gun in the world, do everything right...and then get shot in the head while driving down the highway minding your own business.
ChattanoogaPhil
01-30-21, 12:46
For sure. But the general population of morons wearing cheap masks just to feel compliant and get a false sense of safety is different.
I agree. That's what I was getting at with the difference between mask effectiveness versus mask mandate effectiveness. Two entirely different subjects.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-30-21, 14:35
I'm not so dismissive about the potential effectiveness of wearing a mask.
My wife went to the doctor with an ongoing heart problem. From there she was sent by ambulance to the ER. It was so crowded that the halls were lined with patients on gurneys. I was glad she was wearing a well-fitting N95 mask when she went in to see the doctor and while at the ER.
If it was your wife (presuming you're on good terms haha) wouldn't you prefer she was wearing a protective mask?
For sure. But the general population of morons wearing cheap masks just to feel compliant and get a false sense of safety is different.
Asked and answered.
I agree. That's what I was getting at with the difference between mask effectiveness versus mask mandate effectiveness. Two entirely different subjects.
To 98% of the population, they are the same thing.
morbidbattlecry
01-30-21, 21:23
I agree. That's what I was getting at with the difference between mask effectiveness versus mask mandate effectiveness. Two entirely different subjects.
No really no, https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
The study provides direct evidence on the effectiveness of widespread community use of face masks from a natural experiment that evaluated the effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public on COVID-19 spread. Fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., mandated face mask use between April 8 and May 15. Using an event study that examined daily changes in county-level COVID-19 growth rates, the study found that mandating public use of face masks was associated with a reduction in the COVID-19 daily growth rate. Specifically, we found that the average daily county-level growth rate decreases by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively.
No really no, https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
The study provides direct evidence on the effectiveness of widespread community use of face masks from a natural experiment that evaluated the effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public on COVID-19 spread. Fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., mandated face mask use between April 8 and May 15. Using an event study that examined daily changes in county-level COVID-19 growth rates, the study found that mandating public use of face masks was associated with a reduction in the COVID-19 daily growth rate. Specifically, we found that the average daily county-level growth rate decreases by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively.
A study that encompassed less than 45 days when we are for all purposes 12 months into Covid is of questionable value.
Andy
Good points.
https://youtu.be/ijNyQ-sv6Tk
A study that encompassed less than 45 days when we are for all purposes 12 months into Covid is of questionable value.
AndyTo be fair it was published June 16th. Current for the timeframe given
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I believe the American people (in conjunction with/helped by our MSM) have lost the ability to scrutinize the veracity of the "authorities" who are telling them what they must do.
It is no longer a matter of trying to figure out if these people in positions of power are lying, it's about trying to figure out if they ever aren't lying.
ChattanoogaPhil
01-31-21, 09:49
No really no, https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
The study provides direct evidence on the effectiveness of widespread community use of face masks from a natural experiment that evaluated the effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public on COVID-19 spread. Fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., mandated face mask use between April 8 and May 15. Using an event study that examined daily changes in county-level COVID-19 growth rates, the study found that mandating public use of face masks was associated with a reduction in the COVID-19 daily growth rate. Specifically, we found that the average daily county-level growth rate decreases by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively.
Not sure I understand the study.
"This study provides evidence from a natural experiment on the effects of state government mandates for face mask use in public issued by fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., between April 8 and May 15, 2020. The research design is an event study examining changes in the daily county-level COVID-19 growth rates between March 31 and May 22, 2020. Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after state face mask orders were signed, respectively."
"STUDY DATA AND METHODS
DATA
We collected information on statewide face cover mandate orders from public data sets on such policies and from searching and reviewing all state orders issued between April 1 and May 21, 2020. Our study focused on state executive orders or directives signed by governors that mandate use."
------------
okay...
One of the states they mentioned was Maryland. According to the linked search, Maryland had a 7-day average of 188 new infections per day for the week of March 31. That steadily increased to a 7-day average of 1,062 new infections per day for the week of May 22. That's greater than a 500% increase during the period. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=maryland+covid&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
The study suggests that the infection growth rate could have been .9-2% less due to the mask mandate? How is such a claim anything more than statistical noise considering the huge increase during the period, as well as the unaccounted for variables in the study?
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-31-21, 10:07
No really no, https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
The study provides direct evidence on the effectiveness of widespread community use of face masks from a natural experiment that evaluated the effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public on COVID-19 spread. Fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., mandated face mask use between April 8 and May 15. Using an event study that examined daily changes in county-level COVID-19 growth rates, the study found that mandating public use of face masks was associated with a reduction in the COVID-19 daily growth rate. Specifically, we found that the average daily county-level growth rate decreases by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively.
And then Covid went away for the summer and then came back in the fall, all with little to no change in mask mandates. So obviously there is something besides Vaske wearing driving the number of cases.
To be fair it was published June 16th. Current for the timeframe given
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That is true and I appreciate the link/study, however I am not sure how viable it is now. They had a limited data set compared to the information we should have now.
There are so many factors involved that it would be difficult to compare mask policy effectiveness, so kudos to then for trying.
Even within the U.S., there are significant differences in race, population density, age, and gender distribution from region to region. Throw in cultural and political effects and a meaningful comparison becomes nearly impossible.
My personal opinion is that masks make a difference. On the flip side, I don't support mandates or care whether or not anyone else wears a mask. To each their own.
Andy
ChattanoogaPhil
01-31-21, 11:17
And then Covid went away for the summer and then came back in the fall, all with little to no change in mask mandates. So obviously there is something besides Vaske wearing driving the number of cases.
I think so.
This chart reflects week by week change in confirmed Covid infections for the US. Suggesting there's .9-2% to be found in weekly growth rates of infection from one week to the next based on mask mandates (as the aforementioned study suggests) in this roller coaster seems doubtful to be proved. For each peak and valley, what drove the rate of increase and decrease? No one knows.
https://i.imgur.com/0DylRRj.png
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-31-21, 13:02
Data and science- but have you ever looked at the JH, versus individual state, versus ‘Covid-19’ IHME data? None of them seem to agree with each other. The graph above is goofy. I guess it is like taking a derivation of the line.
Covid or no Covid, I think we’re going to see mask mandates and handwashing, and perhaps distancing as standard fare especially in the winter months. It has effectively ended the flu, and that is too good of a outcome for the nanny state to let go of. People aren’t going to except the shut down of restaurants and public places. But I can see them mandating masks. Nanny state got to nanny.
Steve Shannon
01-31-21, 16:26
I think so.
This chart reflects week by week change in confirmed Covid infections for the US. Suggesting there's .9-2% to be found in weekly growth rates of infection from one week to the next based on mask mandates (as the aforementioned study suggests) in this roller coaster seems doubtful to be proved. For each peak and valley, what drove the rate of increase and decrease? No one knows.
https://i.imgur.com/0DylRRj.png
Just for shits and giggles, add the various holidays or other days when large gatherings were held (including riots along the west coast) to that chart and see if the peaks fall about two weeks afterward.
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Just for shits and giggles, add the various holidays or other days when large gatherings were held (including riots along the west coast) to that chart and see if the peaks fall about two weeks afterward.
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Pros have already said protests didn't spread it.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus
Haven't missed a days work, haven't worn a mask, haven't altered anything I do, haven't been sick.
Haven't missed a days work, haven't worn a mask, haven't altered anything I do, haven't been sick.Depends on what you do and who you do it around.
I'm the same but I don't see anyone, I don't have co-workers and generally avoid people that share the building, which isn't hard to do. So the only living thing I have the most amount of contact with is my dog. On the other hand majority of businesses won't let you in without a mask. So unless you only shop online masks are inevitable
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I should be like bidens press sec
i'll circle back to you on that !
ummmmm we have the first women treasurer !
ummmmm biden is the first pres to sign more exec orders than any ! OH WAIT never mind did I mention we have a women treasurer !
I will get back to you on that !
UMMM I will circle back to that later
did I mention we hired the first female treasurer I think I circled back to you on that ?
hotrodder636
02-01-21, 08:32
I have been wearing the N95 and KN95 masks for 9 months. I have always cleaned my desk, keyboard, mouse, phone every day I show up to work with Lysol/Chlorox wipes. I keep hand sanitizer on my desk and in my cars—have for years. Regular hand washer. Called a germophobe at work. Have not been going out in public much in the past year. Even with all these precautions, I still got the COVID.
I have been wearing the N95 and KN95 masks for 9 months. I have always cleaned my desk, keyboard, mouse, phone every day I show up to work with Lysol/Chlorox wipes. I keep hand sanitizer on my desk and in my cars—have for years. Regular hand washer. Called a germophobe at work. Have not been going out in public much in the past year. Even with all these precautions, I still got the COVID.I think a while ago info came out that most if not all infections were through person to person contact not from touching objects.
In the beginning I wore an N95. Back in summer I switched to the stupid blue surgery masks. I don't wipe down squat but I will use hand sanitizer after leaving a public area that was full of people. Before this I didn't even know where to find Lysol, wipes and hand sanitizer let alone actually use them.
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ChattanoogaPhil
02-01-21, 09:33
We order groceries for curbside pickup. Have to wait in the truck for a couple minutes before the shopper comes out to put groceries in the back of the truck. While waiting I see lots of folks exiting the store immediately remove their cloth mask and stuff it in their pants or coat pocket. Any Covid they might have had on their hands from handling things in the store or checkout touchscreens or whatever is now on the mask and on the inside of their pockets. So... ya know... whatever.
When the outbreak first began I watched a vid of a nurse being asked about cross contamination. She chuckled and said that the general public hasn't the slightest idea the discipline required. The overall message was forgetaboutit.
If anyone is interested, this is a good page to get the meta summary on masks for those who don't wanna dig through the data:
https://examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/
hotrodder636
02-01-21, 10:20
Honestly, I quit following/caring about everything that was coming out about the virus. I figured I would either end up getting it or not.
I think a while ago info came out that most if not all infections were through person to person contact not from touching objects.
In the beginning I wore an N95. Back in summer I switched to the stupid blue surgery masks. I don't wipe down squat but I will use hand sanitizer after leaving a public area that was full of people. Before this I didn't even know where to find Lysol, wipes and hand sanitizer let alone actually use them.
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Just a heads up: Dear Leader Xiden issued edicts that ALL public transportation facilities and carriers mandate mask usage for anyone over 2 years old, anywhere within those facilities or conveyances. Failure to wear a mask, put on a mask when directed, or voluntarily leave the facilities/conveyances, may result in civil penalties and/or criminal prosecution under federal law.
It goes into effect tonight at 11:59pm.
Averageman
02-01-21, 15:36
Just a heads up: Dear Leader Xiden issued edicts that ALL public transportation facilities and carriers mandate mask usage for anyone over 2 years old, anywhere within those facilities or conveyances. Failure to wear a mask, put on a mask when directed, or voluntarily leave the facilities/conveyances, may result in civil penalties and/or criminal prosecution under federal law.
It goes into effect tonight at 11:59pm.
Did he print copies for Biden to hand out here?
Did he print copies for Biden to hand out here?
I'm honestly surprised no one has posted them publicly yet. They aren't even marked FOUO/LES/SSI/WXYZ and all that.
Good health and the stench of feet.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ijukes/status/1245879511100645377
Consider this: The Covid pandemic is associated with a significant decline in seasonal flu cases. This is because the same preventions from Covid, i.e. masks, hand washing, social distancing, avoiding gatherings, also stops the spread of flu.
Consider this: The Covid pandemic is associated with a significant decline in seasonal flu cases. This is because the same preventions from Covid, i.e. masks, hand washing, social distancing, avoiding gatherings, also stops the spread of flu.Social distancing? Ha! Where? Ever been to Costco? Walmart? Any mall or large supermarket?
Social distancing at Costco last week on a slow day. You should see it when the line goes the length of the entire store
65524
Don't see anyone going to the bathroom to wash hands on their way out of the stores.
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Social distancing? Ha! Where? Ever been to Costco? Walmart? Any mall or large supermarket?
Social distancing at Costco last week on a slow day65524
Don't see anyone going to the bathroom to wash hands on their way out of the stores.
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Maybe they don't in blue Philadelphia, but they sure do all those things down here!
Consider this: The Covid pandemic is associated with a significant decline in seasonal flu cases. This is because the same preventions from Covid, i.e. masks, hand washing, social distancing, avoiding gatherings, also stops the spread of flu.
The numbers are put out by the same groups of people that use statistics to promote their anti 2nd Amendment goals.
The numbers are put out by the same groups of people that use statistics to promote their anti 2nd Amendment goals.
Which people in which groups?
Which people in which groups?
Government, medical, and media.
Maybe they don't in blue Philadelphia, but they sure do all those things down here!Not sure what blue has to do with anything. People don't care and stores aren't going to be policing lines with rulers. Try getting all those people to stay 6ft apart in a line that goes from one end of the store to the other. Now you have a line that raps around the inside of the store, not to mention people still walking and shopping. And then how do you keep shoppers from staying 6ft apart while doing the shopping? Do you stop and let only one person at a time in the Isle?
In Texas? Aha! The state that opened?
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Which people in which groups?Here you go...
Twitter censored Harvard professor of medicine Martin Kulldorff, a member of the COVID-19 vaccine safety subgroup that advises the CDC, FIH, and FDA, because he challenged the notion that children and young people require COVID-19 vaccination....
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/03/30/twitter-censors-official-coronavirus-adviser-and-renowned-epidemiologist-martin-kulldorff/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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Not sure what blue has to do with anything. People don't care and stores aren't going to be policing lines with rulers. Try getting all those people to stay 6ft apart in a line that goes from one end of the store to the other. Now you have a line that raps around the inside of the store, not to mention people still walking and shopping. And then how do you keep shoppers from staying 6ft apart while doing the shopping? Do you stop and let only one person at a time in the Isle?
In Texas? Aha! The state that opened?
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From CDC covid 19 fact sheet:
"Stay at least 6 feet away ( about two arm lengths) from other people"
Similar nonsense here
https://www.clemson.edu/ethics/facultyfellow/fall20article.html
Check out Serbia. No masks, no quarantine, no social distancing, no hospitals overrun and very few deaths (relatively speaking 5300). But then again they don't shove triple whappers down their throats while getting around a store on one of those scooters shopping for the extra large family pack of Jimmy Dean sausage, Coke and twinkies
Americans are now going there for vacations
65525
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Back in April or May.... during the lockdown. There was an article examining the Covid deaths in one hospital in Florida. They listed about 30 people from their mid 20s to their early 40s. If I remember correctly only a few had no known comorbidity. I remember one 27 year old male died of covid-19 but at 27 he already had cirrhosis of the liver. At 27!!!! Almost everyone else was type 2 diabetes, morbidly obese, undiagnosed high BP....
But the typical news blurp didn't mention liver damage, or the 220/110 blood pressure, only age!
Adrenaline_6
04-02-21, 12:35
Consider this: The Covid pandemic is associated with a significant decline in seasonal flu cases. This is because the same preventions from Covid, i.e. masks, hand washing, social distancing, avoiding gatherings, also stops the spread of flu.
or consider this...there isn't really much of a decline in seasonal flu but many cases are really counted as COVID.
Adrenaline_6
04-02-21, 12:35
*double thing*
There is no science to back up a mask cut out of t-shirt and underwear material, or spandex from China does a god damn thing to protect you from a virus. It does however show us that a large portion of society are cowards and sheep and incapable of thinking for themselves.
Extended wearing of masks Has been shown to actually cause issues like impaired cognition etc.... !
So yeah %100 what you said :)
There is no science to back up a mask cut out of t-shirt and underwear material, or spandex from China does a god damn thing to protect you from a virus. It does however show us that a large portion of society are cowards and sheep and incapable of thinking for themselves.
Extended wearing of masks Has been shown to actually cause issues like impaired cognition etc.... !
So yeah %100 what you said :)
There is no science to back up a mask cut out of t-shirt and underwear material, or spandex from China does a god damn thing to protect you from a virus. It does however show us that a large portion of society are cowards and sheep and incapable of thinking for themselves.
There is no science to back up a mask cut out of t-shirt and underwear material, or spandex from China does a god damn thing to protect you from a virus. It does however show us that a large portion of society are cowards and sheep and incapable of thinking for themselves.
That is false. It does help protect people from the wearer, does little to nadda for protecting the person wearing the mask. Evidence for masks of all kinds covered here:
https://examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/
No doubt, basic cloth masks are the least valuable for reducing spread of Covid.
Extended wearing of masks Has been shown to actually cause issues like impaired cognition etc.... !
So yeah %100 what you said :)
Which masks? How long? Source?
As always, risk/benefit is the issue there.
That is false. It does help protect people from the wearer, does little to nadda for protecting the person wearing the mask. Evidence for masks of all kinds covered here:
https://examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/
No doubt, basic cloth masks are the least valuable for reducing spread of Covid.
Which masks? How long? Source?
As always, risk/benefit is the issue there.
Prove that info in the link is anything more than opinion.
Prove that info in the link is anything more than opinion.
They supply sources per journals published for all claims made. It's an excellent science based write up of the existing data on masks.
You can easily look at the sources used.
Fauci wrote a paper in the 80's saying most deaths from the Spanish flu was caused by bacterial pneumonia & not the flu itself...caused from constantly wearing masks. So there's that.
Fauci wrote a paper in the 80's saying most deaths from the Spanish flu was caused by bacterial pneumonia & not the flu itself...caused from constantly wearing masks. So there's that.
Paper says:
"Published pathologic and/or bacteriologic findings from the 1918–1919 influenza pandemic. Although the cause of influenza was disputed in 1918, there was almost universal agreement among experts [e.g., 20, 27–33] that deaths were virtually never caused by the unidentified etiologic agent itself, but resulted directly from severe secondary pneumonia caused by well-known bacterial “pneumopathogens”; that colonized the upper respiratory tract (predominantly pneumococci, streptococci, and staphylococci). Without this secondary bacterial pneumonia, experts generally believed that most patients would have recovered" (1)
No mention of masks...
(1) https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/198/7/962/2192118
First he says we don't need them at the outbreak & now we need two. Only Two weeks to flatten the curve...that was a solid. The guy is a hack.
Texas covid cases have fallen daily since the mask mandate was lifted Mar 10...I'm done with this crap. Wear your face diaper if you want. They didn't stop/slow a damn thing as viruses are gonna do what they are gonna do to get to herd immunity.
NOW, you get the jab but you still gotta wear them per cdc...it's all bs will. Don't tread on me.
The SAME exact shit happened in the rgv back during the swine flu pandemic...hospitals were overflowing, people coming across from mex to get help. LOTS of people died but it just wasn't politicized.
Inconclusive is the truth :)
this from your link since it is about N95 and surgical which almost none are wearing and I read/quoted the post being about the obey cloth masks that almost all are using !
A randomized trial found that healthcare workers wearing cloth masks were 13 times more likely to contract flu-like illnesses than those wearing surgical masks
So yeah the cotton crap we are all mostly wearing hmmmmm not so hot at stopping things
Was listening to a virologist laugh at the cotton mask as he said its like putting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitos !
And then some say well it stops alligators and stray dogs ! As proof it works BUT NOT for what it was intended !
Even N95 they are saying is uncertain !!!! If they had proof they would post it AS proof but they say uncertain
Lack of peer reviewed being the big thing
Now I do think N95 in hospitals help ! Us wearing cloth in the store I do not believe !
Form your link
There isn’t a lot of peer-reviewed data available yet, but preliminary studies suggest that both N95 respirators and surgical masks help protect wearers, although the extent of the protection is uncertain. This evidence was gathered in healthcare settings, though, and applicability to other settings is also uncertain.
That is false. It does help protect people from the wearer, does little to nadda for protecting the person wearing the mask. Evidence for masks of all kinds covered here:
https://examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/
No doubt, basic cloth masks are the least valuable for reducing spread of Covid.
Which masks? How long? Source?
As always, risk/benefit is the issue there.
Google it otherwise sure I will get some but its been known for a long time about the problems of extended use as there are lots of studies on that and other long term mask wearing issues they are usually around N95 and related to medical since that is what is most common and where it matters to study ya dont want your nurse admin your meds etc.. wearing them 12 hour shifts being cookoo ! But its happening sadly because of the current idiocy
But for fun here is one
https://clinmedjournals.org/articles/jide/journal-of-infectious-diseases-and-epidemiology-jide-6-130.php?jid=jide
Now that was 343 people I think it said and it showed the issues
NOW of course comes the political we have to disprove this so they took 8 healty active makes ages 27-41 and had them do some tests for 45 minutes and say LOOK we found it does not !!! Hahahaah this is the problem !!!
So what do you believe actual people out of 343 that had issues or some healthy dudes tested in a hyperbaric chamber for 45 minutes to disprove what they do not want getting out so press has some ammo ! The last one is a BOGUS study and what is happening with the cloth masks work crap going on :)
I took what he wrote being about the obedience cloth masks even our dear leader xibiden is wearing :) NOT N95 fitted properly used properly along with the other support to work properly etc...
Cloth masks can be MORE dangerous ! I learned that when I got my hazmat certificates ! And I carry that forward granted I was dealing with stuff that kills you most the time but I was also dealing with other things we could come across in EMS
Some of the crap I learned was that you can end up with a higher concentration of bad stuff and if not handled correctly post ?
I do not doubt N95 work in hospitals etc...
I do not believe cloth masks in the store work ! And neither of us have proof but we can look at states with bans and no bans and masks and no masks and see they are the same ? Which means Inconclusive
Here is a study for fun before covid so no political skew and this study says cloth masks can increase the chance
And yeah study not peer reviewed ?
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.
Notice INCREASED risk
Reuse being a HUGE HUGE issue as everyone is wearing the same mask over and over and over and handling it etc...
Bottom line ! Tried being the key word as they want you to believe it or many do not know HOW to read those things and say SEE it says so
Again Its inconclusive either way :)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7497125/
There is no published randomized controlled trial to advocate mask usage as an effective strategy for control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission, although various studies have tried to indirectly assess the efficacy of masks against spread of various respiratory infections.
Heck even cdc wont say yes they say maybe cause they know its political word game and they can not say THEY DO
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article
Lets talk about something we do know
Obesity is far worse for covid and many studies are pointing this out being obese is a HUGE issue and on top they spread it more etc... !!! And that is a huge issue not being addressed instead HEY lets give out donuts to those who got the shot when obesity is a problem ! Hahaahahah our country is past stupid sadly
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html
Many many studies on this REAL ISSUE that is not being addressed :) instead wear masks that have NO proof of working and do have past studies that show they can cause negative effects BUT WEAR YOUR CHINA MADE
I say we get people on board with getting healthy dumping the crap industrialized oils like the canola crap etc.. and sugars and processed foods ! And I know you would be on board with that as it will truly %100 for sure work and help folks not only for covid but for health in general ! Again I know you are a huge health guy that is what we as a country should be doing !
With what only about %12 of Americans being metabolic healthy this is our issue not being forced to wear a cotton mask and lied to
Sorry for my bad grammar :)
Masks do provide one useful function, beyond question:
They let us tell libs from Patriots at a glance.
Just believe the science guys.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen
The answer is politics. Politics is how this happened.
But I recommend you shift fire, ask “the science” types what “science” came up with the 6ft social distance...
N95 is not rated to stop viruses. The covid 19 virus is .03 micron in size. N95 can stop .07 micron and larger particulates.
6ft social distancing mandatory in the airport...sardines in the airplane. Brilliant!!
Need a passport & quarantine for US travel...we got us sanctioned illegal immigration covid incubators down here on the border before they hatch & we send them north to a town near you. Hurray for testing, masks & jabs!!
6ft social distancing mandatory in the airport...sardines in the airplane. Brilliant!!
!!Found the pic I was referencing last night. Took this pic at Costco around Jan. This is roughly 1/2 to the back of the store. No one is all that worried. I guess Covid is only dangerous in voting lines65530
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N95 is not rated to stop viruses. The covid 19 virus is .03 micron in size. N95 can stop .07 micron and larger particulates.
You're not filtering out the virus particle itself.
You're filtering out the larger droplets the virus is riding on.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-03-21, 05:14
N95 is not rated to stop viruses. The covid 19 virus is .03 micron in size. N95 can stop .07 micron and larger particulates.
You're not filtering out the virus particle itself.
You're filtering out the larger droplets the virus is riding on.
The “virus is too small for N95s” is sooooo June 2020...
Why didn’t we do retarded shit like this when Swine Flu hit?
I actually caught Swine Flu and honestly it was the closest I came to dying. It was no joke.
Bah
You're not filtering out the virus particle itself.
You're filtering out the larger droplets the virus is riding on.
Maybe if someone sneezes or coughs and you get droplets on your mask then it would stop it temporarily, but not permanently. What about the virus entering through our eyes or ears? Seems to me there is no emphasis put on the virus being transmitted through these passageways?
Why didn’t we do retarded shit like this when Swine Flu hit?
I actually caught Swine Flu and honestly it was the closest I came to dying. It was no joke.
Bah
I got it as well. It was pretty bad. Very high temp, nausea on and off and pretty much no good for anything for a better part of a week.
Here's a good message on masks as well as enforcement.
https://youtu.be/HzWIXNir6vE
A lot of double posts for some reason?
Maybe if someone sneezes or coughs and you get droplets on your mask then it would stop it temporarily, but not permanently. What about the virus entering through our eyes or ears? Seems to me there is no emphasis put on the virus being transmitted through these passageways?
Fauci addressed this last summer. Advocated face shields or goggles for high risk areas. Conservatives hooted him. How quickly we forget.
Fauci addressed this last summer. Advocated face shields or goggles for high risk areas. Conservatives hooted him. How quickly we forget.
https://youtu.be/eYxloMhKKrQ
just a scout
04-03-21, 07:35
Never once have I seen anyone address protection factors, filter materials, fit testing or filter medium efficacy. This face burka is NOTHING more than virtue signaling.
As to the numbers, CDC is now combing pneumonia, influenza and COVID into one statistic called PIC deaths so they can keep the numbers up and the proles excited. It was three separate categories before, but that’s not politically expedient anymore since flu and pneumonia are down, as is covid.
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Here's a good message on masks as well as enforcement.
https://youtu.be/HzWIXNir6vE
He has many good points and just stomped lots of toes.
Mask? For what? Ohhhhh, you mean for that “pandemic” social experiment that the scumbag liberals are playing on the American people to see how obedient they are, how far they are willing to bend, and how dependent they can be on the Govt? Masks for that? That game sucks. I chose not to play it.
Title describes it well.
https://youtu.be/FPwN8tc7c8Y
Anyone who has had any respirator training knows that they all leak to a degree.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-09-21, 17:08
Government doesn't recommend the use of N95 for us peons which is a pretty good indicator they work.
Serious though, I made sure my wife had all the N95 masks she needed when she had to go to the hospital (unrelated to Covid) and followup doctor appts. Did they work? I don't know but she didn't get infected. I would have never forgiven myself if I scoffed at wearing a mask and she got sick. Neither of us got sick. Maybe we did something right.
A good read on masks:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987720333028?via%3Dihub
Hypothesis
On January 30, 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) announced a global public health emergency of severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) causing illness of coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) [3]. As of October 1, 2020, worldwide 34,166,633 cases were reported and 1,018,876 have died with virus diagnosis. Interestingly, 99% of the detected cases with SARS-CoV-2 are asymptomatic or have mild condition, which contradicts with the virus name (severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2) [4]. Although infection fatality rate (number of death cases divided by number of reported cases) initially seems quite high 0.029 (2.9%) [4], this overestimation related to limited number of COVID-19 tests performed which biases towards higher rates.
Given the fact that asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times higher than the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate is considerably less than 1% [5]. This was confirmed by the head of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases from US stating, “the overall clinical consequences of COVID-19 are similar to those of severe seasonal influenza” [5], having a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1% [5], [6], [7], [8]. In addition, data from hospitalized patients with COVID-19 and general public indicate that the majority of deaths were among older and chronically ill individuals, supporting the possibility that the virus may exacerbates existing conditions but rarely causes death by itself [9], [10]. SARS-CoV-2 primarily affects respiratory system and can cause complications such as acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), respiratory failure and death [3], [9].
It is not clear however, what the scientific and clinical basis for wearing facemasks as protective strategy, given the fact that facemasks restrict breathing, causing hypoxemia and hypercapnia and increase the risk for respiratory complications, self-contamination and exacerbation of existing chronic conditions [2], [11], [12], [13], [14].
ChattanoogaPhil
04-20-21, 09:54
Michigan has ordered toddlers to wear masks. These people are insane.
----------
The Michigan Department of Health and Human Services expanded mask requirements to include children ages 2-4 years old. The order runs through May 24.
“I think it makes sense, actually,” said Dr. Rudolph Valentini, Chief Medical Officer at DMC Children’s Hospital.
More here: https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2021/04/16/michigan-extends-covid-mask-mandate-to-children-as-young-as-2/
Kevslatvin
04-20-21, 11:06
On the complete other end of the spectrum. I went to my nephew's baseball game(coach pitch) last night. 99% were not wearing masks. Same thing at his basketball games last month(though they were capacity limited). Walmart mask usage is majorly trending downward. Last time I checked my counties(granted we are a rural area) Covid cases were going down.
TLDR:This may have been posted before but I think this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEp-Sdgl9AU shows masks can be effective but the way most masks are worn does nothing but redirect were the exhaled air goes. It almost looks worse to be behind someone in a surgical mask than in front of a non masked person. Of course half the people I see don't cover their nose rendering it essentially useless if it did do anything.
Business_Casual
04-21-21, 15:11
I think masks are political. I doubt their efficacy outside a controlled environment. Dirty, poorly fitting masks are probably doing more bad than good.
I think the pharmaceutical industry wants people to buy vaccine doses. They know that therapeutics would reduce vaccine adoption, for obvious reasons. Hence, the mask - something you have to keep doing until everyone is “vaccinated” and transmission drops.
Business_Casual
04-21-21, 15:12
I think masks are political. I doubt their efficacy outside a controlled environment. Dirty, poorly fitting masks are probably doing more bad than good.
I think the pharmaceutical industry wants people to buy vaccine doses. They know that therapeutics would reduce vaccine adoption, for obvious reasons. Hence, the mask - something you have to keep doing until everyone is “vaccinated” and transmission drops.
Masks are the 21st century hijab
I think masks are political. I doubt their efficacy outside a controlled environment. Dirty, poorly fitting masks are probably doing more bad than good.
I think the pharmaceutical industry wants people to buy vaccine doses. They know that therapeutics would reduce vaccine adoption, for obvious reasons. Hence, the mask - something you have to keep doing until everyone is “vaccinated” and transmission drops.
Disposable masks need to be changed every 3-4 hours so that they are not harmful. At the expense of your conviction that all this is politics - as for me, this is too much. The whole world chtoli agreed that it is profitable? I don’t think so. It is not profitable for the government to restrict the movement of people and prohibit the work of enterprises - this directly affects the economy, the state receives less taxes from the treasury and thereby suffers losses. This is counterproductive.
Business_Casual
04-23-21, 10:11
Disposable masks need to be changed every 3-4 hours so that they are not harmful. At the expense of your conviction that all this is politics - as for me, this is too much. The whole world chtoli agreed that it is profitable? I don’t think so. It is not profitable for the government to restrict the movement of people and prohibit the work of enterprises - this directly affects the economy, the state receives less taxes from the treasury and thereby suffers losses. This is counterproductive.
What explains it, then?
Disposable masks need to be changed every 3-4 hours so that they are not harmful.
I don't think people wear them that long. Most people.....I'm sure theres some Quasimodo wearing it all day and to bed. When I was working in an office we'd only wear them when a client walked in and only because no one wanted to upset clients and even then some employees had to be reminded to put the mask on. I wore my mask probably a total of a few minutes a day counting going into stores.
Everyone else I know who's not working from home is like that too. It seems like no one wears masks around the people they interact with daily.
The whole world chtoli agreed that it is profitable? I don’t think so. It is not profitable for the government to restrict the movement of people and prohibit the work of enterprises - this directly affects the economy, the state receives less taxes from the treasury and thereby suffers losses. This is counterproductive.
You'll own nothing and you'll be happy!
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Business_Casual
04-23-21, 11:02
https://ratical.org/PandemicParallaxView/MaskingOurselvesToDeath-MCM1stHalf.pdf
Interesting.
I laugh as I still see a ton of people driving down the road with masks on and they are alone :) hahahhahah
Or walking their dog with masks on is so common and sad
Welding masks are great for avoiding retina burns! I have a hard time doing the close my eyes and zap technique.
I laugh as I still see a ton of people driving down the road with masks on and they are alone :) hahahhahah
Or walking their dog with masks on is so common and sad
And wearing gloves in their own damn vehicle! Apparently, hand-washing hasn't caught on as expected. :D Although I have seen vehicles that I wouldn't get in without a Class III entry suit.
Exam gloves are meant for one "touch" and then remove; like you start an IV and then skin them off and wash your hands. How would you like it if your doc gave you a prostate exam, then palpated your lymph nodes in your neck without removing his gloves? Eww!
I laugh as I still see a ton of people driving down the road with masks on and they are alone :) hahahhahah
Or walking their dog with masks on is so common and sadI used to but after a few times doing it because of convenience and sanity I don't anymore.
I would have to put the mask on to walk out of my office, walk about 20ft then I'd be outside so I'd take it off. Drive 1/2 mile (30 seconds), put it on again to walk into a store for 2 min. Then walk out, take the mask off, drive 30 seconds put the mask on, walk in...walk 20ft to my office, take it the mask off again...
So I would just leave it on
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I used to but after a few times doing it because of convenience and sanity I don't anymore.
I would have to put the mask on to walk out of my office, walk about 20ft then I'd be outside so I'd take it off. Drive 1/2 mile (30 seconds), put it on again to walk into a store for 2 min. Then walk out, take the mask off, drive 30 seconds put the mask on, walk in...walk 20ft to my office, take it the mask off again...
So I would just leave it on
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I think a lot of people do/did this. I know I occasionally find myself driving masked, or even better - sitting in my office working away all alone with a mask on.
That being said, at least 10% of the folks you see doing it believe its necessary to protect themselves.
Andy
I think a lot of people do/did this. I know I occasionally find myself driving masked, or even better - sitting in my office working away all alone with a mask on.
That being said, at least 10% of the folks you see doing it believe its necessary to protect themselves.
AndyYea there's definitely people who wear them to protect themselves from themselves!
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Touching your face especially with dirty hands is one of the easiest ways to get sick. What do you think a lot of people are doing when they’re putting on masks, constantly adjusting them, and taking them off? Forget where their nasty hands have been. [emoji23]
Touching your face especially with dirty hands is one of the easiest ways to get sick. What do you think a lot of people are doing when they’re putting on masks, constantly adjusting them, and taking them off? Forget where their nasty hands have been. [emoji23]
Just finished eating at a BBQ place and several employees' masks look like the napkins I used while eating.
Just finished eating at a BBQ place and several employees' masks look like the napkins I used while eating.
I'd rather food workers not wear any mask at all. For sure keeps them from reaching up and touching their face every 10 seconds to adjust the mask.
Just finished eating at a BBQ place and several employees' masks look like the napkins I used while eating.
I'd rather food workers not wear any mask at all. For sure keeps them from reaching up and touching their face every 10 seconds to adjust the mask.
I just went to the first nicer restaurant I’ve been to where none of the staff were wearing masks. Granted it isn’t a huge chain but it still was nice to see things getting a little back to normal.
We have enough Karens and Kens in the world as it is and now. Just imagine new generations growing up thinking they have to throw on a mask as soon as they’re told and everybody else should too.
I just went to the first nicer restaurant I’ve been to where none of the staff were wearing masks. Granted it isn’t a huge chain but it still was nice to see things getting a little back to normal.
We have enough Karens and Kens in the world as it is and now. Just imagine new generations growing up thinking they have to throw on a mask as soon as they’re told and everybody else should too.
Some folks will NEVER go back to normal...they are permanently scarred. The amount of stupidity is vast.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BlaiseP59407586/status/1387777568494039048
ChattanoogaPhil
04-29-21, 17:54
Today was the last day for our county mask mandate. There's a ball game at the middle school. Must be 200 or more there. Didn't see any masks, but very few wore masks outside during the mandate anyway. Maybe some stores or employers will still mandate masks but folks around here seem to be generally over it.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-30-21, 07:41
Governor of Tennessee declared Covid no longer a health emergency, will not renew any health orders and rescinded county authority to impose mask mandates. A handful of larger counties with their own health department still have authority, Hamilton county being one of them, but we just ended mask mandates. Covid out, Consitituional carry in. Things are looking up, boys.
I think all but 5 or 6 Kansas counties have rescinded all mask mandates. 95% of the people don’t give a shit anymore. The lockdowns did not work. The masks were ****ing stupid. Why anyone is listening to the CDC or the world health organization anymore is beyond me, their stupidity is only rivaled by their incompetence. Every time the county health officer sends out a notice that they had to dispose of vaccines because no one wants them I laugh even harder.
Masks are the 21st century hijab
This.
Masking is the progressive's demonstration of religiosity. "What's that? Trump doesn't think you need one? Then we say you need one always and forever. Trust tHe sCieNcE."
Things in Delaware are still full retard. We took a week to visit friends in MD for a week. We decided to head over to Bethany Beach, DE for the day since it was pushing into the 80's. The beach was basically empty. The wife and I, plus one of our friends, headed out to the beach. People ended up passing within 20 feet of us and asked us to wear a mask. The wife and friend went shopping, I sat outside on a bench. Local LEO comes along and tells me to mask up. Since it was hot as balls, I just headed to the car and ran the A.C.
I started to really enjoy the anonymity a mask provides.
Leonidas24
05-05-21, 21:57
I started to really enjoy the anonymity a mask provides.
You could always wear a keffiyeh for cheap laughs.
I started to really enjoy the anonymity a mask provides.
You could always wear a keffiyeh for cheap laughs.I'm pretty sure if you wear a ski mask no one will bat an eye. I still see people double masked, although not many, and wearing gloves
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Seen a local wear a plague doctor mask
https://youtu.be/9WsWcIg6zRs
legumeofterror
05-06-21, 06:12
A good read on masks:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987720333028?via%3Dihub
Hypothesis
On January 30, 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) announced a global public health emergency of severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) causing illness of coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) [3]. As of October 1, 2020, worldwide 34,166,633 cases were reported and 1,018,876 have died with virus diagnosis. Interestingly, 99% of the detected cases with SARS-CoV-2 are asymptomatic or have mild condition, which contradicts with the virus name (severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2) [4]. Although infection fatality rate (number of death cases divided by number of reported cases) initially seems quite high 0.029 (2.9%) [4], this overestimation related to limited number of COVID-19 tests performed which biases towards higher rates.
Given the fact that asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times higher than the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate is considerably less than 1% [5]. This was confirmed by the head of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases from US stating, “the overall clinical consequences of COVID-19 are similar to those of severe seasonal influenza” [5], having a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1% [5], [6], [7], [8]. In addition, data from hospitalized patients with COVID-19 and general public indicate that the majority of deaths were among older and chronically ill individuals, supporting the possibility that the virus may exacerbates existing conditions but rarely causes death by itself [9], [10]. SARS-CoV-2 primarily affects respiratory system and can cause complications such as acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), respiratory failure and death [3], [9].
It is not clear however, what the scientific and clinical basis for wearing facemasks as protective strategy, given the fact that facemasks restrict breathing, causing hypoxemia and hypercapnia and increase the risk for respiratory complications, self-contamination and exacerbation of existing chronic conditions [2], [11], [12], [13], [14].
Uh... Try again.
The Editorial Committee concluded that the author’s hypothesis is misleading on the following basis:
1. A broader review of existing scientific evidence clearly shows that approved masks with correct certification, and worn in compliance with guidelines, are an effective prevention of COVID-19 transmission.
2. The manuscript misquotes and selectively cites published papers. References #16, 17, 25 and 26 are all misquoted.
3. Table 1. Physiological and Psychological Effects of Wearing Facemask and Their Potential Health Consequences, generated by the author. All data in the table is unverified, and there are several speculative statements.
4. The author submitted that he is currently affiliated to Stanford University, and VA Palo Alto Health Care System. However, both institutions have confirmed that Dr Vainshelboim ended his connection with them in 2016.
Crazytown still has plenty of residents.
I got the second vaccination shot yesterday and, I guess as a reward, was given a mask that says "Covid 19 Vaccinated ✔".
Andy
P.S. its also a single layer mask and small enough I look like Rosie O'Donnell wearing Eva Mendes' bikini. At least it doesn't say "Made in China".
P.S. its also a single layer mask and small enough I look like Rosie O'Donnell wearing Eva Mendes' bikini. At least it doesn't say "Made in China".
But it was still likely made in china...
LOL! :)
Uh... Try again.
Not one to throw the baby out with the bath water, there are some legit issues in that article that make most mask efficacy, ah, dubious. The only mask which we knows work with a high degree of confidence is the N95. Everything else, there are so many "depends" attached to whether they work, if they work, and how they work it's crazy.
hotrodder636
05-06-21, 07:38
Unfortunately where I work they are worn all day (depending on the job position that is 10-14 hours per day). We are a Federal entity and thanks to the current Administration masks are required to be worn at all times except with eating/drinking even if socially distanced—unless you are in an office with floor to ceiling walls and close door, which most cubicle farms are NOT.
I don't think people wear them that long. Most people.....I'm sure theres some Quasimodo wearing it all day and to bed. When I was working in an office we'd only wear them when a client walked in and only because no one wanted to upset clients and even then some employees had to be reminded to put the mask on. I wore my mask probably a total of a few minutes a day counting going into stores.
Everyone else I know who's not working from home is like that too. It seems like no one wears masks around the people they interact with daily.
You'll own nothing and you'll be happy!
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Uh... Try again.
No one is wearing an “approved mask with proper certification and fitment” outside of the medical field.
I don’t know about you, but people are not wearing properly fit tested and certified N95 and N99 masks to the grocery store, restaurant, library, etc- here in CO.
People are wearing face diapers and it’s a joke thinking they do anything...
ChattanoogaPhil
05-06-21, 09:12
The masks my wife uses are on the CDC list of NIOSH-Approved N95 Particulate Filtering Facepiece Respirators. Been using them since last summer. Apparently, they fit my wife's face well as she was told by more than one doctor at the hospital she was admitted to (unrelated to Covid). They're not cheap but neither is my wife.
The masks my wife uses are on the CDC list of NIOSH-Approved N95 Particulate Filtering Facepiece Respirators. Been using them since last summer. Apparently, they fit my wife's face well as she was told by more than one doctor at the hospital she was admitted to (unrelated to Covid). They're not cheap but neither is my wife.
I do realize some folks are wearing proper N95 or better rated masks, fewer are wearing them fitted and properly, however- that is a very small minority of folks and most people are wearing masks that do little to nothing and they aren’t even using them correctly as a single use mask- would you agree?
Averageman
05-06-21, 10:39
I do realize some folks are wearing proper N95 or better rated masks, fewer are wearing them fitted and properly, however- that is a very small minority of folks and most people are wearing masks that do little to nothing and they aren’t even using them correctly as a single use mask- would you agree?
That's exactly what I am seeing.
The mask has become a talisman of invincibility, telling someone that their single use nose diaper that is now a week old isn't helping them blows their minds.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-06-21, 11:16
I do realize some folks are wearing proper N95 or better rated masks, fewer are wearing them fitted and properly, however- that is a very small minority of folks and most people are wearing masks that do little to nothing and they aren’t even using them correctly as a single use mask- would you agree?
For sure the Biden chin mask does nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if mask mandates for the general public did as much harm as good, but I'm only interested in my family. Wife is in her 60s with a mild heart condition. While there's endless data on the effectiveness of masks, I don't remember seeing any stating an N95 mask didn't provide better filtration than cloth or a surgical mask so that's what we went with, and one that fit her face well. Other than that, I really don't know what else I could reasonably do in regards to masks. Do they work? All I know is that she didn't get sick. We've both had the Pfizer vaccine.
https://i.imgur.com/qGQbWcs.jpg
For sure the Biden chin mask does nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if mask mandates for the general public did as much harm as good, but I'm only interested in my family. Wife is in her 60s with a mild heart condition. While there's endless data on the effectiveness of masks, I don't remember seeing any stating an N95 mask didn't provide better filtration than cloth or a surgical mask so that's what we went with, and one that fit her face well. Other than that, I really don't know what else I could reasonably do in regards to masks. Do they work? All I know is that she didn't get sick. We've both had the Pfizer vaccine.
https://i.imgur.com/qGQbWcs.jpg
No one in my household got sick, 5 of us. None of us wore masks. Just some objective data. People should do what they want. I agree wearing the same cloth mask is probably doing more harm than good.
No one in my household got sick, 5 of us. None of us wore masks. Just some objective data. People should do what they want. I agree wearing the same cloth mask is probably doing more harm than good. Even though I am totally ambivalent on mask wearing, I also realize the idea behind mask is to lower liquid droplet spread, not decrease your odds of catching it from someone else. That said, I can keep my distance and not spit on people, so I haven't worn a mask unless required by private property owners or government mandate.
My brother and sister in-law were dedicated activist non-mask wearers. They just tested positive yesterday.
Our business was never required to mask up, so few of us wore them. 71,000 customer interaction since Mar 1, 2020. 20 staff members. Not one case of COVID for any of them so far, nor for their immediate family. Three cases of direct exposure by employees with non-household family members with zero positives.
All this really mean nothing. I lost two friends to COVID complications. I still don't believe masks really did anything to help. I'm still on the fence with vaccines.
Does the mask you are wearing to guard against the chinese virus really work? Try this... seal the mask material around your mouth with your fingers and see if you can breath in and out normally. Now remove your fingers and breath. Think path of least resistance. Based on my own tests, the air I'm inhaling and exhaling isn't being filtered by the mask. At best, the masking is only capturing the water vapor of my breath, which is one way to stem the spread of the virus. Military protective masks and respirators, on the other hand, have sufficient seals around one's face to force the air to enter through the filters and exit through a one-way valve. Wearing more than one mask or a mask with a filter won't "filter" out pathogens. What do you think?
yes, they work, but that's not to say they are flawless and 100% impervious and all that.
This topic, frankly, is dumb as shit.
Go ask a cop if his bullet resistant vest works, then point out that it has sleeves and he's dumb for wearing a vest with sleeve holes, or he could get shot in the face. Vests R Dum!
God if I hear more of this shit. I hate having clicked the GD forum by accident.
yes, they work, but that's not to say they are flawless and 100% impervious and all that.
This topic, frankly, is dumb as shit.
Go ask a cop if his bullet resistant vest works, then point out that it has sleeves and he's dumb for wearing a vest with sleeve holes, or he could get shot in the face. Vests R Dum!
God if I hear more of this shit. I hate having clicked the GD forum by accident.
Not the same thing. That vest covers the torso and protects that part. It does what it's supposed to do within it's design parameters. The vests have been tested and rated for certain calibers.
These blue masks most people wear were made in china to what quality? In the beginning of this it was already shown that Chinese masks were largely ineffective with several countries sending entire shipments back. On top of that when you look on the box many have a warning label....does not protect against Covid!
I would probably have more faith in the mask if it were made here
Or just about anywhere in EU, UK, AU, ...
And since the new Tapatalk won't let me put up a picture without having to sign in through FB, Google or email you can look it up but here is what the box says
"WARNING
THIS PRODUCT IS AN EAR LOOP MASK. THIS PRODUCT IS NOT A RESPIRATOR AND WILL NOT PROVIDE ANY PROTECTION AGAINST COVID-19 (CORONAVIRUS) OR OTHER VIRUSES OR CONTENTMENTS.
Wearing an ear loop mask does not reduce the risk of contracting any disease or infection. User is solely responsible for the selection of the appropriate personal protective equipment for the setting and application
Change immediately if contaminated
Single use only"
I'm not trying to be a dick or argumentative and I've never been in a job that requires a vest but I'm pretty sure none of them say that they won't protect against ANY round?
That's just the blue surgeon mask. Then there's the N95 with the one way valve I see worn all the time. Completely opposite of why you're wearing that mask in the first place. Tons and tons of neck gaiters that were said to make it worse by slicing the droplets you breathe out making more and smaller ones. And of course all the bandanas that don't actually prevent anything since there's a large gaping hole under your mouth
The_War_Wagon
05-07-21, 08:42
GOOD news! Mickey Mauci has a NEW, foolproof plan THIS week! :jester:
https://i.ibb.co/FVkDZHg/mickey-mauci-fan.jpg
ChattanoogaPhil
05-07-21, 09:03
https://i.imgur.com/H913lo8.png
My old man has COPD and two different heart issues, both parents went into complete lockdown over a year ago because the believe the BS on TV and the c¥nt in the governors Manson.
My wife and I have done there grocery shopping this entire time (they live 62 miles away from us). We deliver the groceries to the front porch then leave, after we are gone the go out and bathe every item in hand sanitizer.
The both have had their shots as of February, then the Monday after easter, mom calls and says they went to Dr and both are positive for the China virus. 4 days later the old man is in the UofM hospital with a 76% oxygen level. 10 days later he went home, but both are still sick (not contagious).
We haven't seen them in over a year and they only go to Dr visits and wear multiple masks, yet they both caught it.
Our whole state has the ridiculous mask requirements, but I've been telling folks to suck it, for the last few weeks as I'm sick of this nonsense.
My old man has COPD and two different heart issues, both parents went into complete lockdown over a year ago because the believe the BS on TV and the c¥nt in the governors Manson.
My wife and I have done there grocery shopping this entire time (they live 62 miles away from us). We deliver the groceries to the front porch then leave, after we are gone the go out and bathe every item in hand sanitizer.
The both have had their shots as of February, then the Monday after easter, mom calls and says they went to Dr and both are positive for the China virus. 4 days later the old man is in the UofM hospital with a 76% oxygen level. 10 days later he went home, but both are still sick (not contagious).
We haven't seen them in over a year and they only go to Dr visits and wear multiple masks, yet they both caught it.
Our whole state has the ridiculous mask requirements, but I've been telling folks to suck it, for the last few weeks as I'm sick of this nonsense.
I still don't believe the test are accurate. He could have had pneumonia. Especially if he wears the same mask over and over. If the mask gets wet he's breathing in damp air with bacteria in it. Then he puts it on again and again, just repeating the process. Masks people wear more than once are cesspools. It's like crapping in your pants but still wearing them over and over. Does a filter mask work yes did a price of cloth you can smell a fart through work, no not even a little.
Furthermore, nothing should be mandatory any more. We need to take care of our selves. It's not my job to protect you if you're vulnerable due to weight or age.
Also why is anyone not high risk getting vaccinated? There is zero history with this vaccine. We don't know the long term affects, but we know if we aren't high risk we are 99.9% likely to survive. Remember the government told us asbestos was ok.
Get healthy people is the best thing you can do. Poor diet is really killing us.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-08-21, 08:12
My 82 y/o mother lives 2,400 miles away. I also delivered groceries to her front door via Walmart (dry goods) and Whole Foods/Amazon Prime (fresh and frozen). She never got sick. Got the Pfizer vaccine in March. She's back to doing her grocery shopping at the local store, N95 mask (mask mandated).
Government: everyone must get the vaccine, it will keep you from being kilt.
Government: even if you have the vaccine need to keep schools and businesses closed, no dancing at weddings, wear your mask at all times, continue social distancing.
Government: why won't you all get the vaccine????
ChattanoogaPhil
05-08-21, 09:05
Also why is anyone not high risk getting vaccinated? There is zero history with this vaccine. We don't know the long term affects, but we know if we aren't high risk we are 99.9% likely to survive.
-----------------
For me, the likelihood of not dying from Covid without vaccination isn't nearly as appealing as avoiding becoming sick after vaccinated. Surviving Covid isn't necessarily a walk in the park.
Those who point out that long-term effects from Covid vaccines are unknown might consider the other side of the coin.
-----------
Mayo Clinic: (excerpts)
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects
COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems.
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:
Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Some adults and children experience multisystem inflammatory syndrome after they have had COVID-19. In this condition, some organs and tissues become severely inflamed.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems
COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.
Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.
People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.
Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.
Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown
Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time, but research is ongoing. Researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.
Many large medical centers are opening specialized clinics to provide care for people who have persistent symptoms or related illnesses after they recover from COVID-19.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351#:~:text=Long%2Dterm%20effects%20COVID,within%20a%20few%20weeks.
Now the CDC says regular masks don't work because Covid in reality is aerosolized
"U.S. public health officials have finally revised existing public guidance about the novel coronavirus, acknowledging for the first time that people can get infected by inhaling aerosolized particles hanging in the air in addition to “direct splashes or sprays” from an infected person directly onto a mucus membrane, The New York Times reported"
"A surgical mask, even if it’s tucked in on the edges, is still not really going to give you enough protection if you’re in a meatpacking plant elbow to elbow all day long with other people,” he said."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/cdc-warns-of-aerosolized-covid-19-transmission-for-first-time
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ChattanoogaPhil
05-08-21, 09:35
You left out the best part of the quote.
University of Maryland aerosol scientist Donald Milton said there should be a “better focus on good respirators” for those forced to work in close quarters. “A surgical mask, even if it’s tucked in on the edges, is still not really going to give you enough protection if you’re in a meatpacking plant elbow to elbow all day long with other people,” he said.
Told ya. :)
Actually, this is what the CDC has posted. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html
I still don't believe the test are accurate. He could have had pneumonia. Especially if he wears the same mask over and over. If the mask gets wet he's breathing in damp air with bacteria in it. Then he puts it on again and again, just repeating the process. Masks people wear more than once are cesspools. It's like crapping in your pants but still wearing them over and over. Does a filter mask work yes did a price of cloth you can smell a fart through work, no not even a little.
Furthermore, nothing should be mandatory any more. We need to take care of our selves. It's not my job to protect you if you're vulnerable due to weight or age.
Also why is anyone not high risk getting vaccinated? There is zero history with this vaccine. We don't know the long term affects, but we know if we aren't high risk we are 99.9% likely to survive. Remember the government told us asbestos was ok.
Get healthy people is the best thing you can do. Poor diet is really killing us.My mom said she made cloth masks herself and washs them after the second use.
I agree with you, I was just posting what happened in my family.
I'm high risk but haven't taken any shots because, well look at my parents.
If they come out with an actual vaccine that prevents you from catching the disease, I'll get in line.
Here’s a joke:
Guy walks into a restaurant wearing a mask, sits down 5 feet from the door and takes his mask off...
This is fvckibg stupid!
https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?abVariantId=0&campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210511&instance_id=30578&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN®i_id=95056988&segment_id=57734&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2Fa1606adc-e1e1-5581-9f2e-aee007a098ea&user_id=8dca87e714c4a899d62ec15ee9870483
Even the New York Times is calling out the cdc for being full of shit! And yet people refuse to see the truth.
https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?abVariantId=0&campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210511&instance_id=30578&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN®i_id=95056988&segment_id=57734&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2Fa1606adc-e1e1-5581-9f2e-aee007a098ea&user_id=8dca87e714c4a899d62ec15ee9870483
Even the New York Times is calling out the cdc for being full of shit! And yet people refuse to see the truth.
Averageman
05-11-21, 08:26
https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?abVariantId=0&campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210511&instance_id=30578&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN®i_id=95056988&segment_id=57734&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2Fa1606adc-e1e1-5581-9f2e-aee007a098ea&user_id=8dca87e714c4a899d62ec15ee9870483
Even the New York Times is calling out the cdc for being full of shit! And yet people refuse to see the truth.
I see the truth.
That's all that is necessary for me.
No Mask, No Shot, No problems.
Kinda like the comparos out there: California and Florida have similar deaths per population with California destroying its economy, locking everything down, mandating masks, etc. while Florida's economy was never attacked, no lock downs, no mandates AND California is 5th youngest state (3rd?) while Florida has the oldest and most vulnerable population...Lots of good governance in Florida which explains the left/media attacks on DeSantis and the "neanderthals" for not wearing masks, not crushing businesses, letting those on unemployment know it's time to get back to work. Carried away there; point being, if masks were that effective, we would have been having kids and the elderly wear them every flu season wouldn't we?
The media & their bullshit mask push...strong language.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BlaiseP59407586/status/1392876736061313028
Averageman
05-13-21, 12:37
At some point lot of people were wearing old masks, just because replacements were hard to find.
Now it seems a lot of people are using them as a fashion accessory.
At what point will it be revealed to them that the might as well be wearing a Shi++y diaper on their faces?
I wash the cloth masks and replace the paper ones at the end of the day, whichever one I use.
Just in: CDC said those that are fully vaccinated can discard the mask, indoor or outdoor, you don't have to wear it. Unless you have symptoms.
Leonidas24
05-13-21, 16:49
https://i.ibb.co/rwkwzbk/tweet.png (https://ibb.co/wzyzPJy)
I like where this is going. *sarcasm*
I identify as vaccinated.
And he can go **** himself!
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-13-21, 17:45
I wash the cloth masks and replace the paper ones at the end of the day, whichever one I use.
Just in: CDC said those that are fully vaccinated can discard the mask, indoor or outdoor, you don't have to wear it. Unless you have symptoms.
Right in time for my allergies to hit...
I identify as vaccinated.
And he can go **** himself!I identify as the vaccine! So wherever I go covid dies
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SomeOtherGuy
05-13-21, 19:51
I identify as vaccinated.
And he can go **** himself!
Don't ask, don't tell.
My body, my choice.
I wash the cloth masks and replace the paper ones at the end of the day, whichever one I use.
Just in: CDC said those that are fully vaccinated can discard the mask, indoor or outdoor, you don't have to wear it. Unless you have symptoms.
I normally wear the paper masks until an ear loop breaks. They are a talisman to calm the panic-driven sheeple and required at work.
Andy
It worked years ago but not for the same reason. LOL
https://i.postimg.cc/Y0GjjFtB/Mask-man.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
I am mostly, peacefully vaccinated. Any one who asks for my papers will be called a Nazi and have their business burned.
I too identified as a vaccinated American. Asking for my Vaxx Papers is as racist as asking for proof of residency. If you come at me send Atheists and Bachelors.
I too identified as a vaccinated American. Asking for my Vaxx Papers is as racist as asking for proof of residency. If you come at me send Atheists and Bachelors.Bring lawyers, guns and money!
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You want to see my vaccination papers? OK, let me see your voter ID....
Well ... first day and I didn't see anyone without a mask nor did I see any signs being taken down. Granted I only stopped at 4 places
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NC dropping the 'mask mandate.' Still allows for businesses to require them should they choose. Still mando for schools, healthcare facilities, day care, and prisons.
Pa dropping mask mandate when vaccines reach 70%. Currently 38%
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Few days ago I stopped at a very Mexican based store in PHX as it was on my way one of those I am in Mexico stores and half had no mask :)
Per the thread topic, excellent deep dive with SME who did the research. Dr Z is generally a good source for sci/med intel both covid specific and non:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8N5oduX1KQ
just a scout
05-14-21, 19:22
Per the thread topic, excellent deep dive with SME who did the research. Dr Z is generally a good source for sci/med intel both covid specific and non:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8N5oduX1KQ
Masks are worthless in this context. Masks provide a protection factor of 1, meaning the air outside the mask has as many particles as inside the mask. For reference, an APR (like an M50) had a PF of 50. A PAPR, which pulls air through filters and blows it into the mask (like an M50) has a PF of 1000. An SCBA, like used for firefighting, hazmat and level 4 labs has a PF of 10,000.
Not only that, an N95/P100 mask must be correctly fitted and sized. A weight change of ten pounds requires another fit test.
N95/P100 masks should be constructed with a one way exhalation valve and appropriate head harness to stay sealed with movement or speech.
They should not be used longer than 1-2 hours and are single use.
A surgical mask provides no protection to the wearer beyond minor splash protection to the mouth and nose. A surgical mask is used to protect the patient from droplets expelled by the wearer. They are single use and should not be worn more than one hour.
A cloth mask provides no more protection than a surgical mask and may provide less depending on the material and construction.
I am certified as a Respiratory Protection Program Manager and this is the standard from 29 CFR 1910.134.
I have never once in the past two years seen an industrial hygienist brought to the podium to explain all this. Medical doctors are all well meaning and stuff, but they have no knowledge or experience with this stuff. It’s in their wheelhouse as much as interstellar navigation is in mine. I spent twenty years teaching this to hospitals and they still didn’t get it.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
05-15-21, 02:12
So this whole mask thing, did it protect us?
https://youtu.be/tgX5g_7p8j4
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-15-21, 02:42
Masks are worthless in this context. Masks provide a protection factor of 1, meaning the air outside the mask has as many particles as inside the mask. For reference, an APR (like an M50) had a PF of 50. A PAPR, which pulls air through filters and blows it into the mask (like an M50) has a PF of 1000. An SCBA, like used for firefighting, hazmat and level 4 labs has a PF of 10,000.
Not only that, an N95/P100 mask must be correctly fitted and sized. A weight change of ten pounds requires another fit test.
N95/P100 masks should be constructed with a one way exhalation valve and appropriate head harness to stay sealed with movement or speech.
They should not be used longer than 1-2 hours and are single use.
A surgical mask provides no protection to the wearer beyond minor splash protection to the mouth and nose. A surgical mask is used to protect the patient from droplets expelled by the wearer. They are single use and should not be worn more than one hour.
A cloth mask provides no more protection than a surgical mask and may provide less depending on the material and construction.
I am certified as a Respiratory Protection Program Manager and this is the standard from 29 CFR 1910.134.
I have never once in the past two years seen an industrial hygienist brought to the podium to explain all this. Medical doctors are all well meaning and stuff, but they have no knowledge or experience with this stuff. It’s in their wheelhouse as much as interstellar navigation is in mine. I spent twenty years teaching this to hospitals and they still didn’t get it.
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My biggest thing, piggy backing on what your are saying I think, is that when we run into a pandemic where we have this kind of transmission and an order of magnitude or more death rate (1-5%), that is when we need to have masks that actually work. Now maybe keeping people home will be easier in that case- but on the other end, we'll need to actually protect key infrastructure people as they work- . An N95 really should be a once a day item, but if a lot of people stay at home, but it would take a year from start to where we are now- you need to be able to make a billion N95s a week? And you need to stockpile enough to keep you going until that production can come on line. Of the trillions we spend, I don't see this as a priority, or even an activity.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-15-21, 07:06
Per the thread topic, excellent deep dive with SME who did the research. Dr Z is generally a good source for sci/med intel both covid specific and non:
]
Interesting discussion, particularly the connection between masks and severity of infection. Thanks for posting.
Masks are worthless in this context.
View vid? Her data suggests otherwise and may be related to inoculum theory.
Interesting discussion, particularly the connection between masks and severity of infection. Thanks for posting.
Very worthwhile view, yup.
Right now the only sane rationale for wearing any mask is that it reduces the viral load. Because we know it does not prevent transmission. Once you give that up, the entire mask debate is pointless.
To wit, we are required to wear masks where I work, in a healthcare facility. They don't care if you wear the same surgical mask everyday for a month as long as you have something covering your face. It's all a game.
Right now the only sane rationale for wearing any mask is that it reduces the viral load. Because we know it does not prevent transmission. Once you give that up, the entire mask debate is pointless.
To wit, we are required to wear masks where I work, in a healthcare facility. They don't care if you wear the same surgical mask everyday for a month as long as you have something covering your face. It's all a game.
Which appears to be strong predictor of severity of disease per work done by Dr, Gandhi in vid I posted above.
Which appears to be strong predictor of severity of disease per work done by Dr, Gandhi in vid I posted above.
Yes. There is evidence to suggest that reducing the viral load is statistically correlated to reducing severity.
just a scout
05-15-21, 09:26
I’ll try to suffer through it. 57 minutes is a long time.
Point being, masks don’t work the way people think they do. Reducing the viral load is critical to keep from being infected but wearing dirty masks all day that are touched and adjusted, that aren’t changed, and allowed to breed more ick, it’s all theater and control.
Again, I have never once seen an industrial hygienist or hazmat/respiratory protection specialist on tv to explain all this to the nomenklatura. What we’ve been doing doesn’t work and that’s born out by the stats. States with no masks have less incidence of illness with virus. Proper hygiene and sanitation does much more to stop this flu than masking and social distancing and all the other lockdowns, quarantines and crap.
Everybody wants to be an expert, while the people who are supposed to be the experts are too busy being political. Don’t get me started on my opinions about the vaccines.
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Lol until next week. A year and half in and it’s still just wild ass guesses. You can find a quack with dr in front of their name to agree to anything
Kinda like the comparos out there: California and Florida have similar deaths per population with California destroying its economy, locking everything down, mandating masks, etc. while Florida's economy was never attacked, no lock downs, no mandates AND California is 5th youngest state (3rd?) while Florida has the oldest and most vulnerable population...Lots of good governance in Florida which explains the left/media attacks on DeSantis and the "neanderthals" for not wearing masks, not crushing businesses, letting those on unemployment know it's time to get back to work. Carried away there; point being, if masks were that effective, we would have been having kids and the elderly wear them every flu season wouldn't we?
Florida's numbers are probably lies. We know when that researcher tried to tell the truth, De Santis sent the police to raid her house.
Florida's numbers are probably lies. We know when that researcher tried to tell the truth, De Santis sent the police to raid her house.
Only one that got caught fudging covid numbers so far has been your boy Cuomo.
That is what we 'know'.
Yeah but he only gets the talking points from the left so why bother
Kida funny the Mich winch was in FL when she said do not go there ? Hmmmmmm
The left are predictable idiots for sure :) fun to watch spout stuff though hahahahahaha
Kinda like the ocean is rising alarmists all with waterfront homes :) hahahahahahahah
Only one that got caught fudging covid numbers so far has been your boy Cuomo.
That is what we 'know'.
The NY numbers as reported are bad enough. It just seems criminal.
Florida's numbers are probably lies. We know when that researcher tried to tell the truth, De Santis sent the police to raid her house.
You mean Rebekah Jones? https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-heavily-promoted-rebekah-jones-fake-conspiracy-accusing-desantis-admin-of-altering-covid-data
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/05/rebekah-jones-the-covid-whistleblower-who-wasnt/
Business_Casual
05-16-21, 11:04
Florida's numbers are probably lies. We know when that researcher tried to tell the truth, De Santis sent the police to raid her house.
Wouldn’t their health system failure be national news instead of “probably “ then?
You mean Rebekah Jones? https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-heavily-promoted-rebekah-jones-fake-conspiracy-accusing-desantis-admin-of-altering-covid-data
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/05/rebekah-jones-the-covid-whistleblower-who-wasnt/Unfortunately that's not going to work. He goes fast and hard at anything CNN. And once it's been said it's gospel
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Unfortunately that's not going to work. He goes fast and hard at anything CNN. And once it's been said it's gospel
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This guy posts way to much dumb shit that is easily proven to be 'fake news' for him to be that dumb.
Pretty sure he is just trying to get a rise out of us...
Averageman
05-16-21, 17:04
I haven't worn a mask.
I don't get out much though, groceries, range car was and the occasional restaurant.
First and only test came back negative today.
The issue with Florida has been soundly debunked. That chick Jones blew her wad, and it backfired: entirely made of lies.
YUP :)
But the left believes a boy can have a period if he identifies as a women ? So this is the lunacy they truly believe !
Even to the point large corporations now believe the insanity to :) and are promoting it as truth and the so called scientists are saying this is science ?
The fact that science as they see it now about as legit as you are white means you are born a racist nazi and only whites can be racist so you cant say that about anyone else that is modern science :) we have truly gone backwards
The good thing is many high end colleges are now fighting racism by having segregated graduation ceremonies to bring people together etc... :)
The issue with Florida has been soundly debunked. That chick Jones blew her wad, and it backfired: entirely made of lies.
testimony on masks mentioned
https://youtu.be/oJQ9xNZxnOg
**** masks. Haven’t worn one, won’t wear one. This is a made up pandemic anyways with a 99.5% survival rate. I’ll let my immune system take care of me while I breath fresh air.
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