View Full Version : Blackwater Article.....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/blackwater_prosecution
Hmmmm......
1. Contracted guards using DoS supplied weapons. Maybe the DoS should be charged as well for being accessories?
2. Once again we are trying to apply some kind of law enforcement standard to a combat environment. Maybe the DoS should found liable since they were removing DSS agents from AIC positions. (Dave L. if I am wrong let me know).
3. There have been tools in place to deal with an alleged criminal activities being committed and the .gov failed to do anything or exercise any control when they could have.
AP: US mulls unusual tactic in Blackwater case
WASHINGTON – Blackwater Worldwide guards involved in the deadly 2007 Baghdad shooting of Iraqi civilians could face mandatory 30-year prison sentences under an aggressive anti-drug law being considered as the Justice Department readies indictments, people close to the case said.
Charges could be announced as early as Monday for the shooting, which left 17 civilians dead and strained U.S. relations with the fledgling Iraqi government. Prosecutors have been reviewing a draft indictment and considering manslaughter and assault charges for weeks. A team of prosecutors returned to the grand jury room Thursday and called no witnesses.
Though drugs were not involved in the Blackwater shooting, the Justice Department is pondering the use of a law, passed at the height of the nation's crack epidemic, to prosecute the guards. The Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988 law calls for 30-year prison terms for using machine guns to commit violent crimes of any kind, whether drug-related or not.
The people who discussed the case did so on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose matters that are not yet public.
Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd declined to comment on the report.
Blackwater, the largest security contractor in Iraq, was thrust into the national spotlight after the Sept. 16, 2007, shooting. Its guards, all decorated military veterans hired to protect U.S. diplomats overseas, were responding to a car bombing when a shooting erupted in a crowded intersection.
The guards carried government-issued machine guns and drove heavily armored trucks equipped with turret guns.
Blackwater insists its convoy was ambushed by insurgents. Witnesses said the guards were unprovoked. When the shooting subsided, Nisoor Square was littered with dead bodies and blown-out cars. Weeks later, amid a growing furor over the shooting, the Justice Department dispatched FBI agents to Iraq to investigate.
The company is not a target in the case and Blackwater has cooperated with investigators.
"The company has consistently said that we do not believe the individuals acted unlawfully," company spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said Thursday. "If it is determined that an individual acted improperly, Blackwater would support holding that person accountable."
Prosecutors questioned dozens of witnesses in the case, including the father of a young boy killed in the shooting. The investigation has focused on between three and six guards who could face charges.
The 30-year minimum sentence was passed as part of a broad law passed in the final days of the Reagan administration. It created the position of drug czar and boosted penalties for violence and drug crimes.
"Our ultimate destination: a drug-free America," President Reagan said in signing the law. "And now in the eleventh hour of this presidency, we give a new sword and shield to those whose daily business it is to eliminate from America's streets and towns the scourge of illicit drugs."
Regardless of the charges they bring, prosecutors will have a tough fight. The law is unclear on whether contractors can be charged in the U.S., or anywhere, for crimes committed overseas. An indictment would send the message that the Justice Department believes contractors do not operate with legal impunity in war zones.
To prosecute, authorities must argue that the guards can be charged under a law meant to cover soldiers and military contractors. Since Blackwater works for the State Department, not the military, it's unclear whether that law applies to its guards.
It would be the first such case of its kind. The Justice Department recently lost a similar case against former Marine Jose Luis Nazario Jr., who was charged in Riverside, Calif., with killing four unarmed Iraqi detainees.
Further complicating the case, the State Department promised several Blackwater guards limited immunity in exchange for their sworn statements shortly after the shooting. Prosecutors will need to show that they did not rely on those statements in building their case.
Hmmmm......
2. Once again we are trying to apply some kind of law enforcement standard to a combat environment. Maybe the DoS should found liable since they were removing DSS agents from AIC positions. (Dave L. if I am wrong let me know).
I can't really comment on this....Sorry guys.
I believe if you think someone committed a crime go after them. But don't use laws that really shouldn't apply. That's the same crap they did with the Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean.
Dave,
Sorry, wasn't try to put you on the spot. My comment was more specific to the removing of DSS personnel oversight from the picture. When you coming around next?
I can't really comment on this....Sorry guys.
Robb Jensen
12-05-08, 07:42
Hmmmm......
1. Contracted guards using DoS supplied weapons. Maybe the DoS should be charged as well for being accessories?
2. Once again we are trying to apply some kind of law enforcement standard to a combat environment. Maybe the DoS should found liable since they were removing DSS agents from AIC positions. (Dave L. if I am wrong let me know).
3. There have been tools in place to deal with an alleged criminal activities being committed and the .gov failed to do anything or exercise any control when they could have.
That would make logical sense. If you gave a gun to a kid and he committed a crime with it you sure as hell would be charged too!
Dave,
Sorry, wasn't try to put you on the spot. My comment was more specific to the removing of DSS personnel oversight from the picture. When you coming around next?
No worries- We have to get together, I'll be around a bit longer.
I don't think Blackwater is the largest security company in Iraq anymore. I would never argue that they aren't one of the best--but I'm sure EODT and Triple Canopy have larger contracts for more bodies on the ground here. Its hard to find the skillset that companies like Blackwater hire from--its a small minority of people vs. the mass hirings for gate check personnel, DFAC guardians, gym watchers and PX protectors. I was shocked when I started seeing the ECP soldiers swapped for 3rd country nationals. I've also started to see some really freakish convoy security gun trucks manned by TCNs with RPKs in painted plywood turrets!
I don't need an E-5 to check my ID at the gym, but at the gates I definitely felt better about having US Military Personnel doing that work. But I'm also glad we have fewer of our guys in harms way.
Actually BW still has more personnel on the ground (Baghdad and al-Hillah) than TC and I am pretty sure EODT also. There has been a real change in the scenerey. I agree that I would much rather have U.S MIL at the gates and ECP's. Unfortunately there is a push to draw down the MIL and stop them from having to do petty shit. There is one company in particular that keep getting contracts even though they are not fully contract compliant. Hell, they even made the Ugandan guards pay for their own amm when they did the train ups in there.
I don't think Blackwater is the largest security company in Iraq anymore. I would never argue that they aren't one of the best--but I'm sure EODT and Triple Canopy have larger contracts for more bodies on the ground here. Its hard to find the skillset that companies like Blackwater hire from--its a small minority of people vs. the mass hirings for gate check personnel, DFAC guardians, gym watchers and PX protectors. I was shocked when I started seeing the ECP soldiers swapped for 3rd country nationals. I've also started to see some really freakish convoy security gun trucks manned by TCNs with RPKs in painted plywood turrets!
I don't need an E-5 to check my ID at the gym, but at the gates I definitely felt better about having US Military Personnel doing that work. But I'm also glad we have fewer of our guys in harms way.
The Ugandan's have definitely had the short end of the stick here. They also have to buy their uniforms, jackets, boots, etc. I stop and talk to them whenever possible. Some of them had never fired a rifle before EODT recruited them but they can make more in a year here than 10 in Uganda. Their church services are amazing to listen too, sort of like the movie "A Power of one" type of moment with a different African language.
All of our guards are provided 3 meals a day, uniforms, boots, weapons, ammo, etc...We also do vetting in country before they arrive here and take them to the range here also to qualify. Others aren't so generous. I have heard a few horror stories.
The Ugandan's have definitely had the short end of the stick here. They also have to buy their uniforms, jackets, boots, etc. I stop and talk to them whenever possible. Some of them had never fired a rifle before EODT recruited them but they can make more in a year here than 10 in Uganda. Their church services are amazing to listen too, sort of like the movie "A Power of one" type of moment with a different African language.
That's great that your taking care of them! I felt bad when I stopped and talked to one of the guys guarding the gym the other night. He had to buy the new jacket/fleece himself and it was very expensive to him by the sound of it. One month's salary back home from what I gathered. I have no idea how much that is though. It might have been a $200 fleece. Similar to the Army issue item.
Stupid!!! Im tired of liberal politicos and lawyers w/ agendas!
Iraq Ninja
12-05-08, 23:51
A PMC is judged not only on the size of their work force, but the size of their contract. I think BW is still first, and I would bet Aegis is second. The Columbians here at Hilla are hired through a subsidiary of BW.
I regards to this incident, am I the only one who thinks that at least one member of the team may actually be at fault? I think it was a turret gunner if I remember correctly. Thus, justice may have to be served, and they can only get him on this loophole.
I-Ninja,
I do think that there may have been some SNAFU's made and have stated that before. Having said that it is a very slippery road to travel when we start second guessing everything that is done in a combat zone either by contractors of the MIL. As a matter of fact I believe that just after this incident the MIL fired up some people at a checkpoint who in fact were juts innocents. That story disappeared real quick and there was no mention of anyone being prosecuted.
I agree 100% if there is a blatant violation of ROE, or someone commits a crime, rape, robbery, murder, etc...they should have the full weight of the law down on them. But, when we are talking about a situation where it is alleged that they were fired upon, someone was laying an IED, etc...our guys should get the benefit of the doubt.
A PMC is judged not only on the size of their work force, but the size of their contract. I think BW is still first, and I would bet Aegis is second. The Columbians here at Hilla are hired through a subsidiary of BW.
I regards to this incident, am I the only one who thinks that at least one member of the team may actually be at fault? I think it was a turret gunner if I remember correctly. Thus, justice may have to be served, and they can only get him on this loophole.
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