View Full Version : PVS-14s, spend my (limited) budget
Grendelshooter
02-06-21, 21:18
I have a couple of thermal rifle scopes and now want to add NV to my little stash.
Ideally, 2-3 PVS-14s. Would do a bino setup but I’d like to have the basics for a couple of people instead.
My last experience was with Army infantry line-issue PVS-14s from 2001-2008. Basic stuff but was plenty good for how we used them.
So if I was looking for 10 year old Pvs-14 level tech what am I looking for? What’s a good, solid, middle of the road monocular? Around the $3k mark.
Look up. See the JRH ad up there? Call.
Grendelshooter
02-07-21, 08:56
No, as blocker and VPN makes me see no ads anywhere, but I will check out JRH!
Manofmayhem
02-07-21, 20:04
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-PVS14-White-Phosphor-ECHO-SPEC-monocular-nvdphotonis14ECHOspec.htm
I just ordered this tube. Best bang for the buck and just under 3k.
Grendelshooter
02-08-21, 07:12
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-PVS14-White-Phosphor-ECHO-SPEC-monocular-nvdphotonis14ECHOspec.htm
I just ordered this tube. Best bang for the buck and just under 3k.
It’s between that one and this one for me right now
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/PVS14-High-Performance1900-Pinnacle-Autogated-Night-Vision-PVS14.htm
I don’t mind green phosphor coloring (or the extra couple hundred bucks) if the image is noticeably better, but availability is the question I suppose.
What did they tell you the lead time is on yours?
Manofmayhem
02-08-21, 07:27
Less than 4 weeks. I went with WP because it's more natural on the eyes, and I'm over green view. The specs are really good on the Echo, I dont know if I'd really notice the difference.
Hey guys, thanks for your interest and business.
Currently we are quoting 4 weeks on new Photonis Echo spec WP PVS14 orders. They are shipping a little quicker than that however, averaging just over 2 weeks. So that's currently (2/8/21 for those reading later) the quickest option in the NV world right now.
The green phosphor 1900 fom model is going to take a little longer than that, figure 8 weeks, possibly less.
I'm a big fan of Echo spec units and have been for years, but either model will serve you well. Both have a 10 year warranty, all standard accessories, manual gain control and are autogated.
Either ones you choose, we do NOT charge your card until the order is ready to ship, so your not out a penny till it's on it's way to you.
Make sure you ask for an M4 carbine discount when you order!
robert@jrhenterprises.com
is my direct email if you have any questions feel free to email or call.
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-PVS14-White-Phosphor-ECHO-SPEC-monocular-nvdphotonis14ECHOspec.htm
I just ordered this tube. Best bang for the buck and just under 3k.
Thank you for your business. Shoot me a direct email with your name so I can be sure we got your unit discounted for you.
robert@jrhenterprises.com
You can get Elbit XLSH for around 2500. Most of the ones I've seen meet OMNI VIII standards, and many far exceed them. Sometimes you can find them with a little blem in zone 3 with FOMs in the 2k plus range.
Grendelshooter
02-08-21, 11:20
Hey guys, thanks for your interest and business.
Currently we are quoting 4 weeks on new Photonis Echo spec WP PVS14 orders. They are shipping a little quicker than that however, averaging just over 2 weeks. So that's currently (2/8/21 for those reading later) the quickest option in the NV world right now.
The green phosphor 1900 fom model is going to take a little longer than that, figure 8 weeks, possibly less.
I'm a big fan of Echo spec units and have been for years, but either model will serve you well. Both have a 10 year warranty, all standard accessories, manual gain control and are autogated.
Either ones you choose, we do NOT charge your card until the order is ready to ship, so your not out a penny till it's on it's way to you.
Make sure you ask for an M4 carbine discount when you order!
robert@jrhenterprises.com
is my direct email if you have any questions feel free to email or call.
In your opinion is there a truly noticeable difference in image quality between the echo WP set and the green fom 1900 I was looking at?
You can get Elbit XLSH for around 2500. Most of the ones I've seen meet OMNI VIII standards, and many far exceed them. Sometimes you can find them with a little blem in zone 3 with FOMs in the 2k plus range.
The XLS line is more hit and miss. The minimums are very low and the spot spec can be horrific. Most we see are coming in way above the minimums but there is always something off on the XLS tubes that makes them not be the better SLH tubes. The XLS line even allows blems in Zone 1 (center of tube). As long as the customer UNDERSTANDS what he is buying, they are a good value, but if your a picky patty or don't understand all the numbers, the blems, etc. than I wouldn't suggest it. We sell the XLS also but we have a big disclaimer in the XLS listings so people clearly understand they are buying a lesser tube or as another nv vendor called the XLS "the bottom of the barrel."
The Echo spec tubes are much more predictable and much, much cleaner tubes. We are seeing on average 68 LP and 30 and over SN on Echos for the last six months.
A pic of a green 1900 fom and an (older) WP Echo spec PVS14
65142
65141
Angle was slightly different but you get the idea. Same night, pics taken minutes apart. At our range in the middle of the GA swamps- no ambient lighting around, nearest street light is about a mile away.
In your opinion is there a truly noticeable difference in image quality between the echo WP set and the green fom 1900 I was looking at?
I have zero experience with the Echo line (full disclosure), but the differences between white and green aren't really about image quality. It's about how the eye and brain process the information. The eye is able to see contrast more easily with the white. If you look at two images of white and green side by side, the difference really jumps out at you. If you sit there and study the green image you'll notice that the image quality is the same, but in an overall sense it's difficult to make out individual objects unless you focus in on those areas and really study the borders between the light and the dark. So with the white you're not only able to pick up on distinct objects faster, you get a better sense of depth perception.
Also keep in mind that FOM ratings aren't linear in terms of how you're going to perceive the quality. Like double the FOM doesn't equal double the resolution in terms of how you see it. If you looked at a tube with a FOM of 1800 and one with 2000, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If you jack it up to like 2500, then you can tell the difference under specific circumstances. Mainly it has to do with being able to detect objects at a lower light threshold. But like I said, it's not linear. You have to jack the FOM way up to get a tangible advantage.
Whereas the advantage you get from white phosphor is going to be there no matter what, even if the FOM is a few hundred less. And FOM isn't even the whole story. EBI is also really important. And the higher the FOM, the rarer it is to see a really low EBI. So you could get a tube with an 1800 FOM that had a .1 EBI and compare it to one with a 2500 FOM and an EBI of 1, and maybe the 1800 tube would actually give you more object detection. Those numbers are arbitrary, mind you, but I just want to illustrate that it's possible, and even probable, to have super high FOM with a worst case EBI, which is a common reason you might see a high FOM tube in a lower tier line. Just as it's common to see mid range FOM with really stellar EBI.
A pic of a green 1900 fom and an (older) WP Echo spec PVS14
65142
65141
Angle was slightly different but you get the idea. Same night, pics taken minutes apart. At our range in the middle of the GA swamps- no ambient lighting around, nearest street light is about a mile away.
Any idea what the specs are on the white one? Gotta say I would go for the green between those two.
Any idea what the specs are on the white one? Gotta say I would go for the green between those two.
Those pics are a couple years old and that Echo was 28 SN and 64 LP IIRC. The green unit was 29 SN and 64 LP.
Those pics are a couple years old and that Echo was 28 SN and 64 LP IIRC. The green unit was 29 SN and 64 LP.
Any idea what the EBI were?
Okie made some good points on the white vs. green. Couple things I always tell customers-
If you had two absolutely identical in specifications tubes (something that doens't happen in real life) and one was green and one was white, your brain would PERCEIVE the white as being brighter even though it may not necessarily be.
The down side to white is the tiny black blemishes that are inherent in all NV tubes are more easy to see against a white background. Similar to taking a blank white sheet of typing paper and putting a little pencil dot on it. Your brain tends to look at the tiny dot versus the other 99.99% of the page which is absolutely clean.
Outside of that, as a general rule green phosphor units typically ship quicker in the Elbit tubes. The exception to that is the Photonis Echo spec tubes which are shipping in 4 weeks or less.
Any idea what the specs are on the white one? Gotta say I would go for the green between those two.
Agreed.
Was that the intent Lowdown3? Is the White supposed to be better?
Any idea what the EBI were?
Both were under or around 1.
Agreed.
Was that the intent Lowdown3? Is the White supposed to be better?
It was comparison photos we did years ago. Once again the Echo (white) is an older Echo, numbers are much higher on Echos now.
An earlier posted asking how the green 1900 fom model compared to the Echo. Hence why I posted the pics if that's what your asking??
Both were under or around 1.
I'm having a hard time understanding how that Echo unit could be so noisy with those specs. That's wild.
I'm having a hard time understanding how that Echo unit could be so noisy with those specs. That's wild.
When I get some time away from the phones I'll try to get some new pics comparing a newer Echo and a green 1900 fom.
I posted some pics on IG comparing a very similar spec WHP1900 fom unit and an Echo a few months back. The Echo pic came out much more blue than it is in real life somehow. Someone told me I should just change some phone setting but I never mess with pic settings on my phone to avoid someone saying I altered a pic, etc.
The bottom line is there isn't a helluva lot of difference between the two, only the buyer can make the choice if the difference is worth the extra bucks and a big jump in lead time.
When I get some time away from the phones I'll try to get some new pics comparing a newer Echo and a green 1900 fom.
I posted some pics on IG comparing a very similar spec WHP1900 fom unit and an Echo a few months back. The Echo pic came out much more blue than it is in real life somehow. Someone told me I should just change some phone setting but I never mess with pic settings on my phone to avoid someone saying I altered a pic, etc.
The bottom line is there isn't a helluva lot of difference between the two, only the buyer can make the choice if the difference is worth the extra bucks and a big jump in lead time.
Age shouldn't matter though should it? I mean FOM is FOM right? I'm just wondering if maybe there are differences in specs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Like maybe they can tweak the settings on their equipment to get higher SN ratios. Like maybe some manufacturers tweak the calibration to be more in their favor or something.
Age shouldn't matter though should it? I mean FOM is FOM right? I'm just wondering if maybe there are differences in specs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Like maybe they can tweak the settings on their equipment to get higher SN ratios. Like maybe some manufacturers tweak the calibration to be more in their favor or something.
No age doesn't matter.
My point was that the Echos that have been shipping in the last 6 months are considerably higher in specifications than the Echos from just a few years ago- in other words, the Echo used for the pic above that was done a few years ago.
Grendelshooter
02-08-21, 16:46
Wow thanks so much for all the input. Given the pictures posted I’d take the green over white, but I’m very curious to see what the new WP tubes look like.
Thanks a bunch lowdown, so what’s this M4c.com discount? Lol
Wow thanks so much for all the input. Given the pictures posted I’d take the green over white, but I’m very curious to see what the new WP tubes look like.
Thanks a bunch lowdown, so what’s this M4c.com discount? Lol
Can't speak to the Echo, but the whites I've seen in the 1600+ range are crispy fresh as can be. If he says the newer Echos stack up against that green one he posted then I would get one in a heartbeat.
Wow thanks so much for all the input. Given the pictures posted I’d take the green over white, but I’m very curious to see what the new WP tubes look like.
Thanks a bunch lowdown, so what’s this M4c.com discount? Lol
Shoot me an email at
robert@jrhenterprises.com
and let me know the model you decide on and I'd be happy to quote a discounted M4carbine.net price for you.
Can't speak to the Echo, but the whites I've seen in the 1600+ range are crispy fresh as can be. If he says the newer Echos stack up against that green one he posted then I would get one in a heartbeat.
We have another NV class coming up on the 20th, I'll try to post some more pics then.
90% of the pics on my IG page that are WP are from an Echo spec unit. ALL of the WP class photos are, and all of the Green Phosphor pics from classes are from a green 1900 fom unit.
https://www.instagram.com/jrhenterprises/
I have a couple of thermal rifle scopes and now want to add NV to my little stash.
Ideally, 2-3 PVS-14s. Would do a bino setup but I’d like to have the basics for a couple of people instead.
My last experience was with Army infantry line-issue PVS-14s from 2001-2008. Basic stuff but was plenty good for how we used them.
So if I was looking for 10 year old Pvs-14 level tech what am I looking for? What’s a good, solid, middle of the road monocular? Around the $3k mark.
I have a friend who is the same for experience (2001-2005 OIF?). I told him I was getting a pvs14 and he felt rather meh. I let him look through it and it blew his mind (L3 filmless 2376+ fom). He said it was so much better than what he was expecting. This leads me to believe a decent Elbit WP tube would make you very happy. However, an l3 filmless wp unit would, if your AO is very dark, be a lot nicer. If you're in the city, I'd even adventure to say a photonis echo would be fine, and maybe preferable in a light heavy area. TNVC seems the best bet for Elbit and L3, while I'd say JRH for photonis.
*be ware that the i2 world is basically "mean girls" meets "Fast n Furious" with a dash of reddit thrown in. Purses will be slung, and friendships made and unmade. Let technical data drive your decisions.
hotrodder636
02-10-21, 07:03
I am just getting into NV and went with the Photonis unit from JRH. Spoke with Robert a bunch about it. Looking at the specs of the Photonis units that JRH has been sending out, they are pretty incredible especially considering the price and lead time. Looking at his pictures, I think this will be a great unit especially for a first timer.
Once I get it (should be soon) and figure out how to use it, I will try to post some pics.
I am just getting into NV and went with the Photonis unit from JRH. Spoke with Robert a bunch about it. Looking at the specs of the Photonis units that JRH has been sending out, they are pretty incredible especially considering the price and lead time. Looking at his pictures, I think this will be a great unit especially for a first timer.
Once I get it (should be soon) and figure out how to use it, I will try to post some pics.
Thank you for your business! As of today we are up to shipping orders that were placed on the 31st of January- so just over a week to get a high spec White Phosphor PVS14 with 10 year warranty headed your way!
Thank you for your business! As of today we are up to shipping orders that were placed on the 31st of January- so just over a week to get a high spec White Phosphor PVS14 with 10 year warranty headed your way!
In the last year myself and several friends have ordered an easy $50k of Night Vision, Thermal, and Laser products from Robert.
1. Everything was exactly as advertised in terms of quality and performance.
2. All "lead/shipping" times were as quoted. Not easy to do in this era...
3. Prices were as good as could be found on comparable items.
4. Not one of the buyers was in any way, shape or form disappointed with their specific transaction.
I've dealt with another Night Vision supplier several times and while the transactions were ok they were nothing outstanding. Robert truly cares that you get what you want and need- and he will talk to you and explain things so that you can understand what you want and need- that's the difference. When you are making a multi thousand dollar purchase with limited application (in reality for most of us)- that seems like a good idea to me.
In the last year myself and several friends have ordered an easy $50k of Night Vision, Thermal, and Laser products from Robert.
1. Everything was exactly as advertised in terms of quality and performance.
2. All "lead/shipping" times were as quoted. Not easy to do in this era...
3. Prices were as good as could be found on comparable items.
4. Not one of the buyers was in any way, shape or form disappointed with their specific transaction.
I've dealt with another Night Vision supplier several times and while the transactions were ok they were nothing outstanding. Robert truly cares that you get what you want and need- and he will talk to you and explain things so that you can understand what you want and need- that's the difference. When you are making a multi thousand dollar purchase with limited application (in reality for most of us)- that seems like a good idea to me.
Hey, thank you so much for the nice comments and all the business!!! Much appreciated.
It's been a very trying year the last year. We absolutely hate lead times on NV but unfortunately they are much higher now.
Grendelshooter
03-02-21, 13:22
Upon Roberts recommendation I went with the Echo unit.
Order placed yesterday, shipping notification today!
Did not expect it to ship so fast, and a nice M4C discount to boot!
Can’t wait to see how it performs! Thanks JRH!
Eurodriver
03-02-21, 13:23
Glad to hear it.
Another plus 1 for JRH as well.
Upon Roberts recommendation I went with the Echo unit.
Order placed yesterday, shipping notification today!
Did not expect it to ship so fast, and a nice M4C discount to boot!
Can’t wait to see how it performs! Thanks JRH!
Thank you for your business!
Echos are shipping SUPER QUICK right now!!
Grendelshooter
03-21-21, 10:17
Upon Roberts recommendation I went with the Echo unit.
Order placed yesterday, shipping notification today!
Did not expect it to ship so fast, and a nice M4C discount to boot!
Can’t wait to see how it performs! Thanks JRH!
Well after using them for a few weeks I’m very, very happy with them. The image quality is fantastic! Better than anything I was ever issued for sure. Glad I went with them!
Well after using them for a few weeks I’m very, very happy with them. The image quality is fantastic! Better than anything I was ever issued for sure. Glad I went with them!
Glad to hear it! We appreciate your business, thanks again!
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-PVS14-White-Phosphor-ECHO-SPEC-monocular-nvdphotonis14ECHOspec.htm
Has anyone posted pics of their Echo tube PVS-14s? Seea few have mentioned getting them but not seeing any pics here. Wondering if anyone posted in a different thread.
There are a few vids up on youtube that look to compare them with a few other tubes.
I too am looking to get my first night vision set up.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Grendelshooter
09-08-21, 14:29
Has anyone posted pics of their Echo tube PVS-14s? Seea few have mentioned getting them but not seeing any pics here. Wondering if anyone posted in a different thread.
There are a few vids up on youtube that look to compare them with a few other tubes.
I too am looking to get my first night vision set up.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
I really don’t have anything other than the ol’ Ipotato to take picks with but I’ll try tonight…if I can remember lol.
I really don’t have anything other than the ol’ Ipotato to take picks with but I’ll try tonight…if I can remember lol.That would be greatly appreciated!
I know sometimes pics of electronics with other electronics don't always translate well.
I'll try to post a vid or two that I found that shows comparisons. Maybe if someone that has one can see if there's truly looks like that it would ve helpful to me any anyone else looking at these.
I know not all tubes are the same so could be potentially better or worse based on the luck of what you get.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
We have a brand new, factory, L3Harris M914A in our lab at work. I've used it back to back with my personal Photonis Echo from JRH and, to my eye, there is no difference in image quality between the two. The L3 was 2x the cost, though...
I think this is a comparison of the same Echo tube. If not please correct me and I'll update or remove the link.
https://youtu.be/KVlLcprwU9I
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Looking through photonis and L3 tubes, the only thing that stood out was with the gain at max, the L3 was a lot brighter.
Grendelshooter
09-09-21, 06:21
That would be greatly appreciated!
I know sometimes pics of electronics with other electronics don't always translate well.
I'll try to post a vid or two that I found that shows comparisons. Maybe if someone that has one can see if there's truly looks like that it would ve helpful to me any anyone else looking at these.
I know not all tubes are the same so could be potentially better or worse based on the luck of what you get.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Well I got some pics, even had a model for some, but the website says they’re too big ��*♂️
Well I got some pics, even had a model for some, but the website says they’re too big ��*[emoji3603]Lol, thanks for taking them. I use tapatalk so it handles all that resizing stuff for me. If you don't have a place that you normally host phots from I could post them for you if you wanted.
Can pm you my email.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
We have a brand new, factory, L3Harris M914A in our lab at work. I've used it back to back with my personal Photonis Echo from JRH and, to my eye, there is no difference in image quality between the two. The L3 was 2x the cost, though...
I think once you use them in the dark dark, it will become apparent.
I think once you use them in the dark dark, it will become apparent.
That and apparently how laser illuminators look on high power. Allegedly you get less washout with the filmless tubes.
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