View Full Version : Supreme Court deciding if police can seize your guns at home without a warrant
I didn’t see this posted on here. But, this doesn’t look good.
The 1st Circuit Court of Appeals (which is the federal court just below the Supreme Court in Caniglia’s jurisdiction) sided with the police. The court wrote: “At its core, the community caretaking doctrine is designed to give police elbow room to take appropriate action when unforeseen circumstances present some transient hazard that requires immediate attention. Understanding the core purpose of the doctrine leads inexorably to the conclusion that it should not be limited to the motor vehicle context. Threats to individual and community safety are not confined to the highways.”
It is certainly true that the police need a good deal of discretion in carrying out their varied, complex, and sometimes dangerous duties. But they are also powerful agents of the government and their power is supposed to be restrained by the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment is supposed to protect the home above all other places. And whatever one’s views on gun control may be, the Supreme Court has clearly held that the right to keep handguns in the home is at the core of the Second Amendment.
Unlike the “exigent circumstances” and “emergency aid” exceptions, the community caretaking exception is not limited to circumstances where there is no time to apply for a warrant. And the question of what sort of caretaking falls under this exception is extremely vague. Will the police be able to use it, for example, to conduct warrantless searches of political protesters’ homes to make sure they aren’t planning on violent behavior at their next political rally? The Supreme Court is going to take a very close look at this case and there is a good chance that it will overrule the lower court’s decision.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2021/02/05/supreme-court-will-decide-whether-police-can-enter-a-home-to-seize-guns-without-a-warrant/?sh=2e103d1b5bb4
So just void the 2nd and 4th amendment without any due process.
Isn't that how we ended up with a country rather than a colony in the first place?
We are already in an environment where it has been open season on law enforcement, if they really cross that bridge it's gonna be really, really bad.
"We are already in an environment where it has been open season on law enforcement, if they really cross that bridge it's gonna be really, really bad"
Yea but the "Open Season" has been declared by bad guys up to now. The question is at what point will law enforcement declare "Open Season" on themselves??
ChattanoogaPhil
02-10-21, 07:36
GOA FILES SCOTUS BRIEF IN CASE INVOLVING 2A & 4A RIGHTS
How the ‘Community Caretaking Exception’ Undermines Second and Fourth Amendment Rights
The Bill of Rights establishes express limitations on government power in areas where the Framers knew from history that governments were prone to invade the pre-existing, God-given rights of their citizens.
At Gun Owners of America and our Foundation, our main focus always has been the Second Amendment, but we have filed literally dozens of briefs defending Fourth Amendment rights as well. The reason is obvious. If the government can break into your house, search it, and then seize your property, your gun rights are put at extreme risk.
GOA and GOF addresses this issue again in a recent amicus brief before the Supreme Court in the case of Caniglia v Strom.
One of the legal gimmicks invented by judges to empower the police to violate your Fourth Amendment rights is called the “community caretaking exception.” This rule was created 48 years ago by the Supreme Court in a decision called Cady v. Dombrowski, 413 U.S. 433 (1973).
In that case, after an accident, the police arranged for a car to be towed from a public street to protect the public when the driver was comatose. Since the driver was an off-duty police officer required to have his handgun with him, and the handgun was not found with him in the car, the police searched for it in the trunk to prevent it from being stolen.
The Supreme Court will decide whether the police can use the Cady case to justify a warrantless search of a home for guns, and seizure of guns, ammunition, and magazines.
In the trunk the police found evidence of a crime committed by the comatose police officer. The Supreme Court upheld the warrantless search of the trunk and seizure of the evidence in it.
The rule of the Cady case has become known as the “community caretaking exception,” because the police were not investigating a crime at the time they found evidence of a crime, but rather were seeking to protect the public from a gun being stolen from a car that they had ordered towed.
The car was not in a police lot, but the police had exercised custody and control over the car. The driver was in no shape to move his car, and the police’s control of the car might justify its warrantless search for the gun. But once the camel’s nose is under the tent, it is usually hard to keep the rest of the camel out.
In subsequent cases, the lower courts have often ignored the fact that Cady was grounded in the police having exercised custody and control over the property of the car, and developed the theory that it applied more generally to vehicle searches, supposedly on the theory that cars can be driven away before warrants can be obtained by police.
That expansion of Cady was bad enough, but now, in the Caniglia v. Strom case, U.S. Supreme Court No. 20-157, the Supreme Court will decide whether the police can use the Cady case to justify a warrantless search of a home for guns, and seizure of guns, ammunition, and magazines, because one of the owners of the house might be upset.
The facts of the Caniglia case are important. Mr. Caniglia grew weary of arguing with his wife, and in a grand gesture, took an unloaded handgun, put it down on a table, and said something like — “Shoot me now and get it over with.” There are lots of other facts in the case, but basically the wife stayed elsewhere for the night, could not reach her husband by phone in the morning, and called the police for a “wellness check.”
The two police officers disagreed as to whether Mr. Caniglia was still upset that morning, but he was convinced to go to the hospital to get checked out. He agreed to go only after being promised by the police that they would not take his guns. That was a lie, as the officers seized his handgun during the short time between when he left the house and when he returned from the hospital.
The police also lied to the wife, telling her that her husband had consented to the handgun being seized. Lastly, after hearing there was another gun in the house, the police searched their house and seized that handgun as well. As the First Circuit explained in their decision approving police actions, “deception is a well-established and acceptable tool of law enforcement.”
There was no violence, no threats of violence, no threats of suicide, no history of mental illness, no prior criminal record — almost nothing to justify the police action. But to uphold the search and seizure, the First Circuit extended the “community caretaking exception” from vehicles to homes.
By the way, where is the “community caretaking exception” in the Fourth Amendment? Look for yourself, as the Fourth Amendment reads:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
There is no “community caretaking exception” to be found in the Fourth Amendment. It doesn’t say that the right does not apply if the police are there to help you, rather than to investigate you. But “the right of the people to be secure in their … houses” is there — as clear as can be.
The GOA/GOF amicus brief in Caniglia explained how for decades the U.S. Supreme Court has undermined the “property basis of the Fourth Amendment.” Many times the Supreme Court stated that the “touchstone” of the constitutionality of a search and seizure was whether it seems “reasonable” — to a modern judge. In other cases, the Supreme Court said that searches and seizures were permissible unless they violated the so-called “reasonable expectation of privacy.”
Our brief explained how Justice Scalia had restored the Fourth Amendment to its original meaning in United States v. Jones, 565 U.S. 400 (2012). There, the Court based its decision on the fact that the Fourth Amendment protected “property” — not just some vague “expectation of privacy” that the Court invented.
Gun Owners of America filed a brief in the Jones case, and the Court’s decision tracked the approach that GOA almost alone argued. A law review article explains how our GOA brief affected the Court’s decision in Jones.
Building on the property principle, our brief strongly urged the Court to confine the Cady case to narrow situations where the police exercised custody and control over a vehicle — which did not occur here. And our brief urged the Court to reject the Court’s oft-stated rule that the Fourth Amendment is “all about reasonableness.” No, it’s not!
As Justice Scalia explained, it’s all about protecting property rights. That’s why it protects “persons, houses, papers, and effects.” (And, by the way, if you think that “persons” doesn’t fit in that list as property, take a look at Blackstone’s Commentaries where he explained that each person had a property interest in his own person.)
When courts give more power to the state, they take it away from us. And since they don’t want to explain their decisions in those terms, they find some “legalese” to cover the corruption of the Constitution.
In this case, they invoke the so-called “community caretaking exception.” A search for the scope of that doctrine is impossible to conduct, as the term has no independent meaning. It is elastic, and can be used to cover whatever the courts want it to mean. But Americans must not be fooled into thinking that these courts are interpreting the Constitution. Rather, these courts take away our rights by basing their decisions on earlier Supreme Court cases and call it constitutional law.
Think about the consequence of losing this case. It would mean yet another erosion of the ancient English notion that “a man’s home is his castle” which undergirded the Fourth Amendment. It would allow police to conduct warrantless searches of your home and seizures of your firearms on the flimsiest of excuses.
All the police would need to say was that they were there for your own good — not to investigate a crime, and they could take away the means by which you protect your own home. To guard against such judicial undermining of our Constitutional Rights, Americans must fully understand and not be fooled by the legal-sounding gimmicks used by “lawyers wearing black robes on the government payroll.”
https://www.gunowners.org/how-the-community-caretaking-exception-undermines-second-and-fourth-amendment-rights/
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-10-21, 07:42
Red Flag laws are already most of the way there on this. Sure, they go to a judge, but there is no advocacy for the gun owner.
PracticalRifleman
02-10-21, 07:57
So just void the 2nd and 4th amendment without any due process.
Isn't that how we ended up with a country rather than a colony in the first place?
Indeed, you’re correct. In fact, the other side doesn’t realize that the police are protecting them from us. Most of the “good guys” take pride in being “law abiding citizens” and understand that in a nation of laws, we aren’t allowed to actually fulfill our oath of protecting the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The other side had turned their back, and called for the elimination of law enforcement. When law enforcement and those that provide them with their legitimacy decide to act as the crown once did, domestic enemies to the Constitution are in for a rude awakening.
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davidjinks
02-10-21, 07:58
Will they apply this case law to someone who doesn’t own guns and their accessories?
If Joe-Bob found out his wife of 10 years was having an affair and Joe-Bob is pissed will the police come to his house and take his car, keys, forks, knives, spoons, bats, hockey sticks, hammers, etc?
If the USSC can justify police violating our constitutional rights because “guns”, what’s stopping them from violating our rights for “not guns”. When is a crime a crime versus a “possibility” or “thought”?
Just comply with orders. Stop resisting. This solves everything, right?
Matt Christiansen just released a video on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndXl8T1n_dA
Apparently, even the ACLU agrees that the 4th should be upheld
If the only thing securing your "Rights" is five strangers in funny costumes- you don't have any rights.
Get used to the idea.
If the only thing securing your "Rights" is five strangers in funny costumes- you don't have any rights.
Get used to the idea.
Aerosmith? The Rolling Stones? Ben Folds Five?
Averageman
02-10-21, 11:00
It's time to secure your own rights.
I'm not talking about a "Peaceful Protest", I'm talking about a personal plan to secure yourself against tyranny.
Security and a plan.
It might not be a bad time to make your voice heard in your community.
It's time to secure your own rights.
I'm not talking about a "Peaceful Protest", I'm talking about a personal plan to secure yourself against tyranny.
Security and a plan.
It might not be a bad time to make your voice heard in your community.
Indeed. The only place I would differ with that is that it's PAST time to have been heard.
The benefit of being heard is not only conveying a message to those in power but also in attracting fellow believers and firmly identifying the opposition in your own back yard- that was one of the principal reasons the American Revolution succeeded. There was a huge network of people- Committees of Correspondence, Churches, Militias, local Committees of Safety, Printers, Trade Associations..... with an agreement on at least a few basic ideas that they were willing to go to the mat over.....
However, there is always danger in that and more so now. Better to have a long standing network of known folks.....The time for talking is nearly over.
Sheesh, they're already protected under competing harms by common law. If ANYONE, including a cop, has reason to believe someone is an immediate threat, they can do whatever is necessary, including taking their guns. And if it turns out they're wrong, all they have to do is demonstrate that any reasonable person would have done the same in their shoes.
For example, let's say someone posts something on social media saying they're about to go postal. Cops go and take the guns. Turns out their account was hacked, and they didn't really make the post. No jury in the land would convict the officers because they acted reasonably with the information they had at the time.
The government already has way more power than it actually needs to keep people safe, because common law basically allows anyone to do anything necessary in extreme circumstances. They're not trying to protect the public, they're trying to dismantle the constitution by stripping people of their rights as a matter of standard operating procedure. The nice thing about competing harms is you have to convince everyone else that you acted reasonably whenever you violate someone, and this would completely remove that burden. They're essentially trying to give police automatic codified benefit of the doubt in any case where competing harms might come into play.
Matt Christiansen just released a video on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndXl8T1n_dA
Apparently, even the ACLU agrees that the 4th should be upheld
I have faith in the commie ACLU flip\flopping on this at a convient date- since apparently "feeling scared" is good enough for the Feds and State to abrigde constitutional rights.
I have faith in the commie ACLU flip\flopping on this at a convient date- since apparently "feeling scared" is good enough for the Feds and State to abrigde constitutional rights.
We'll see. Even if that is the case there is another case about giving police more power in an era where they want to send out social workers with a bouquet of flowers to police calls instead of a patrol car to calls. Either way we need to pay attention as I can't believe that this made it all the way up to the SC with out a few people batting an eye about this.
Aerosmith? The Rolling Stones? Ben Folds Five?
Clearly it's The Jackson 5
Personally, I don't trust Tito. He'll totally sell us out...
Look, here's the deal...The police are going to be given whatever power The State deems it necessary for them to have in order for them to be able to enforce the will of The State with minimal interference. The arguments are just political theater. I mean, come on...We can't have all these "white nationalists" running around armed and screaming about their rights, now can we.
Why do you guys care so much? The whole system is a charade. Do you think they’re losing sleep and posting about you? They couldn’t care less. The most powerful message isn’t to beg and plead for your rights, but to live your lives independently of the state. Ignore them. Stop letting them live free in your heads. God and the Constitution gave you your rights. Live accordingly.
Why do you guys care so much? The whole system is a charade. Do you think they’re losing sleep and posting about you? They couldn’t care less. The most powerful message isn’t to beg and plead for your rights, but to live your lives independently of the state. Ignore them. Stop letting them live free in your heads. God and the Constitution gave you your rights. Live accordingly.
All of civilization is an artificial construct that only exists with willing participants. But that said laws and SCOTUS decisions do matter. This is why everyone who doesn't live "in them thar hills" finds themselves subject to laws passed back in 1968.
I'm gonna say it again, it's time to gut the 1968 GCA and strike the sporter clause.
Also when we talk of rights, second or fourth or whatever, we must ALWAYS be talking in context of CIVIL RIGHTS because that it what the first ten are. If we don't make this a CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE, then we'll never win. Ordinary people need to understand the second is a civil right as much as the first.
There are lots of other facts in the case, but basically the wife stayed elsewhere for the night, could not reach her husband by phone in the morning, and called the police for a “wellness check.”
The two police officers disagreed as to whether Mr. Caniglia was still upset that morning, but he was convinced to go to the hospital to get checked out. He agreed to go only after being promised by the police that...
Rule number 1: Never talk to the cops.
That and the 'Come back with a Warrant' welcome mat outside the door.
:)
Interesting case,
I don't know about you guys but I for one and really excited to see the mental gymnastics that arrive at the conclusion that community caretakers who have no have no duty to protect, can void inalienable rights if somebody who received 5 percent of the communities votes says its like a super duper emergency.
All of civilization is an artificial construct that only exists with willing participants. But that said laws and SCOTUS decisions do matter. This is why everyone who doesn't live "in them thar hills" finds themselves subject to laws passed back in 1968.
I'm gonna say it again, it's time to gut the 1968 GCA and strike the sporter clause.
Also when we talk of rights, second or fourth or whatever, we must ALWAYS be talking in context of CIVIL RIGHTS because that it what the first ten are. If we don't make this a CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE, then we'll never win. Ordinary people need to understand the second is a civil right as much as the first.
We do not have enough soft power to win that argument. LeBron is going to say its ok to riot and burn down buildings because that is the "language of the unheard" and we MUST listen to them.
Racists have no civil rights, no right to be heard. They are to be de platforned and de programmed. The only path forward, the only path left is the cartridge box. Failure to understand this is to not apreciate the reality of the situation.
We do not have enough soft power to win that argument. LeBron is going to say its ok to riot and burn down buildings because that is the "language of the unheard" and we MUST listen to them.
Racists have no civil rights, no right to be heard. They are to be de platforned and de programmed. The only path forward, the only path left is the cartridge box. Failure to understand this is to not apreciate the reality of the situation.
Yes, but you need to clarify- not racists, but people who disagree. You can both disagree with factually incorrect statements and beliefs and not be racist. You can be white and not be racist.
PracticalRifleman
02-11-21, 07:56
Yes, but you need to clarify- not racists, but people who disagree. You can both disagree with factually incorrect statements and beliefs and not be racist. You can be white and not be racist.
Not according to the woke.
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Yes, but you need to clarify- not racists, but people who disagree.
Those are one in the same and your failure to understand this shows how pervasive systemic racism truly is. You can't see it because you are a product of it. We have to Build Back Better and there is no place in the Brave New World for old thinkers. Twenty years in a labor camp will give you some insight.
The reality today is that every single white person is a racist, every single black or latino person that agrees with a white person about what is true and what are sound principles is also a racist. Every gun owner, whether left, liberal, or right, is an enemy of the state. Every conservative religious person is also a racist and enemy of the state. Such is the views of the ruling Com/Dem.
Yes, but you need to clarify- not racists, but people who disagree. You can both disagree with factually incorrect statements and beliefs and not be racist. You can be white and not be racist.
Umm, have you been living under a rock? ;)
We do not have enough soft power to win that argument. LeBron is going to say its ok to riot and burn down buildings because that is the "language of the unheard" and we MUST listen to them.
Racists have no civil rights, no right to be heard. They are to be de platforned and de programmed. The only path forward, the only path left is the cartridge box. Failure to understand this is to not apreciate the reality of the situation.
I think everyone gets that, we are simply discussing what to do between now and when the shooting starts in earnest. Also most aren't going to advocate certain courses of action on a firearms forum.
I think everyone gets that, we are simply discussing what to do between now and when the shooting starts in earnest. Also most aren't going to advocate certain courses of action on a firearms forum.
Train. Get meaningful training from someone who has employed a firearm against another human being, not someone who teaches based on theories that sound and look plausible.
Save money.
Stop investing and pleading in other people to exercise your God-given rights. If you’re doing that, they’ve already won.
Establish a relationship with a higher power of your own understanding.
Prepare mentally for the reality of taking the life of another human being or experiencing another human being trying to take yours. It’s almost more important than training to shoot.
I think everyone gets that, we are simply discussing what to do between now and when the shooting starts in earnest. Also most aren't going to advocate certain courses of action on a firearms forum.
There are a lot of folks that think they can simply hunker down and "this too will pass"...They just want to live their lives and not be particularly bothered and they will bend their head in circles to avoid looking up and seeing whats really going on. In particular I have not advocated that anyone do anything. I am merely noting where on the Road Map to Collapse the mile marker/exit we are at- which reads "Cartridge Box"...we have passed the other exits on this road already.....
Averageman
02-12-21, 12:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1k6CBOVfk
What we have to look forward to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1k6CBOVfk
What we have to look forward to?
That TBI Director and both those DA's need to be fired. I hope that couple plan to take their case all the way to SCOTUS if necessary. That amount of injustice is utterly obscene.
Whiskey_Bravo
02-12-21, 16:06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1k6CBOVfk
What we have to look forward to?
Damn. Terrible. I hope that they are able to make progress with their suit but I don't have a lot of hope now days. Both investigators and the director need to be held accountable.
I would suggest strengthening your door and having a camera set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1k6CBOVfk
What we have to look forward to?
The police, DAs, and judges are all one in the same. You can't expect people to hold themselves accountable. It's like Franklin said, you can't have safety and liberty, and if you try you'll end up with neither.
There are a lot of folks that think they can simply hunker down and "this too will pass"...They just want to live their lives and not be particularly bothered and they will bend their head in circles to avoid looking up and seeing whats really going on. In particular I have not advocated that anyone do anything. I am merely noting where on the Road Map to Collapse the mile marker/exit we are at- which reads "Cartridge Box"...we have passed the other exits on this road already.....
I'm reading you and don't disagree.
I'm reading you and don't disagree.
We can talk among each other, but being physically angry doesn't do us any favors. I look at it like everything else, plan for the worst and hope for the best. We still have 80+ million voters on our side that are feeling the pressure and that isn't exactly a small number to think that anyone can quite ignore.
There are a lot of folks that think they can simply hunker down and "this too will pass"...They just want to live their lives and not be particularly bothered and they will bend their head in circles to avoid looking up and seeing whats really going on. In particular I have not advocated that anyone do anything. I am merely noting where on the Road Map to Collapse the mile marker/exit we are at- which reads "Cartridge Box"...we have passed the other exits on this road already.....
Not only is the road is going to get much worse, this administration is going to do everything it can to try to make the "cartridge box" option an impossibility in the very near future!
Not only is the road is going to get much worse, this administration is going to do everything it can to try to make the "cartridge box" option an impossibility in the very near future!
Eventually they will try and throw the wrong mattress in the wrong dumpster and it will be on like donkey kong.
We can talk among each other, but being physically angry doesn't do us any favors. I look at it like everything else, plan for the worst and hope for the best. We still have 80+ million voters on our side that are feeling the pressure and that isn't exactly a small number to think that anyone can quite ignore.
There is value in talking through things, its always a good thing to know that you are not alone!
The negative energy we are all feeling needs to be constructively channeled. Work some overtime and save some bucks while you can, clean out the garage and create a "maker space"--- because you will have projects you need to do....there is always PT, learning a new skill- (took a blacksmithing class last month), reload some ammo, dry fire, vehicle maintenance...Spend time with friends and loved ones...
Get your shit together--all of it. You will be glad of it later...
Averageman
02-13-21, 08:26
There is value in talking through things, its always a good thing to know that you are not alone!
The negative energy we are all feeling needs to be constructively channeled. Work some overtime and save some bucks while you can, clean out the garage and create a "maker space"--- because you will have projects you need to do....there is always PT, learning a new skill- (took a blacksmithing class last month), reload some ammo, dry fire, vehicle maintenance...Spend time with friends and loved ones...
Get your shit together--all of it. You will be glad of it later...
You better be exploring Gardening.
You better be exploring Gardening.
We have cattle and chickens. I shoot probably 60-80 feral hogs a year. Wife is a certified Master Gardener. We won't starve.
Averageman
02-13-21, 09:59
We have cattle and chickens. I shoot probably 60-80 feral hogs a year. Wife is a certified Master Gardener. We won't starve.
Cool, wish I was as set up as you.
https://thecommonsenseshow.com/agenda-21-conspiracy-economics/where-america-8-stages-genocide-will-it-happen-here
Where is America At on the 8 Stages of Genocide? Will It Happen Here?
Submitted by Dave Hodges on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - 15:35.
I have been covering the unfolding genocidal pattern in America since Biden was selected to be President. However, people do not want to listen or see what is in front of them!
Gregory H. Stanton, President of Genocide Watch, wrote the most salient paper on the topic of Democide, that is by definition, genocide by government against its people. In his analysis, Stanton identified 8 key stages related to the process of genocide? Classification Symbolization Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation, Extermination and Denial.
You better be exploring Gardening.
We do a lot of gardening. I love it. It helps get me re-centered and is a great stress reliever for me.
At a certain point gardens will be a high value target and require 24 hour security from the desperate.
At a certain point gardens will be a high value target and require 24 hour security from the desperate.
I told my dad that last summer, while we were working our family garden. It may get to the point where we are killing people over purple hull peas.
I told my dad that last summer, while we were working our family garden. It may get to the point where we are killing people over purple hull peas.
We have lots of tree based food. People don't think of trees when they think food...Walnuts, Pecans, Hickories, Acorns...Wild plums, Mulberries of course Apples, Pears...Jerusalem Artichokes, Rhubarb, Sorghum, even Wheat-most people have no damn idea what it is--- stuff that doesn't scream FOOD...
The acorns will feed hogs really well. Feral hogs aren't that hard to trap. I've had several friends raise piglets....
Averageman
02-13-21, 21:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsldAIyy6nI
Follow up and jury verdict.
I read some of the background on this case and the conflicting statements trouble me. https://casetext.com/case/caniglia-v-strom-1
Do you think law enforcement should be required to record conversations, both video and audio, when responding to a domestic incident or a suicidal subject call? Do you think this would be a privacy issue? Would you want the police to record the conversations if the people involved were friends or family members?
SCOTUS is a bad parody of it's former self , no one takes them seriously anymore since they self immolated .
Averageman
02-15-21, 18:58
SCOTUS is a bad parody of it's former self , no one takes them seriously anymore since they self immolated .
Wait until the new guys and gals show up to Justice us.
Black_Sheep
02-16-21, 12:59
The 1st and 2nd Amendments have been circumvented by the Left, it’s not surprising that they will attempt to do it to the 4th as well.
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