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View Full Version : Now that CZ owns Colt, what should they do first?



Stickman
02-13-21, 13:25
Its official, CZ has bought Colt, here is what I posted to IG...:


Dear CZ, congratulations on buying Colt. Please start by firing everyone who was an officer, and instead of a giant severance package, give them 2 weeks salary in an envelope while security walks them out. Next, fire anyone who canít fieldstrip an M4.
.
Next, move to a firearm friendly state. Stop giving money to a state that is trying to put Colt out of business.
.
Lastly, hire some people who actually know the firearm community and understand what the public wants. There is no reason for Colt to lag so far behind.
.
Thank you for saving an American icon!


While some people will think I'm joking, I'm serious. The overhead at Colt has appeared to be the major blockage for Colt moving forward, and the overhead includes brass who "APPEAR" to have been brought on board not for any actual firearm ability, but because of past or future favors. While there are lines which are supposed to be drawn on some of this, that isn't my point. My point is that the brass, and the upper management has shown themselves to be utter failures. These individuals should not be walking away with massive checks for a company they ran into the ground, rather, they should be perp walked out the door with a carboard box, and kicked off the curb in the direction of their expensive cars.

The state, and the union have not been favorable to Colt. I'm not exactly pro union, but I do understand why they have a place. I also understand extortion tactics used by Unions, and how bad some of them are. Its my opinion that Colt/ CZ needs to move to a firearm friendly location, and set up their facilities for new workers at good wages, with good management and start again.

My last comment is pretty easy for guys to understand who are in the firearm industry. I have no doubt Colt has made a lot of fantastic firearms, the problem is that if they don't get a GOV contract for them, those items vanish into a vault. Remington did the same thing with its 12 or so ACR examples that it made. It used them to show them off, but never opened them for sale. Funny how they didn't see a return in that investment.... New people who understand what is being bought and sold will make the difference in sales. Short run pieces aren't a bad thing, and I think Colt could make good money by doing 1 and 2 year runs of different model AR15s. Different rails, different gas systems, and different furniture create new pieces to engage with the customers and dealers. I wouldn't think the 6920 model should ever vanish, but there is more to the market than one older model AR.

I most sincerely wish CZ the best of luck with Colt. I feel they have a fantastic opportunity, but they will need to take some pretty basic steps to see them come to fruition.




What changes would you like to see CZ make to have Colt be successful?

CRAMBONE
02-13-21, 15:01
Updated Mid-length M4s. And polymer 1911s just to blow up the fudd heads that are still intact after a fur-in company bought Colt.

Hulkstr8
02-13-21, 15:34
I know I'm not the only dude that thinks it sucks another American company gets bought out by foreign investors. we've really just become the battery for the rest of the world, oh well.

themonk
02-13-21, 16:01
The 6920 as a carbine gas gun needs to die. I would recommend that they focus on midlength gas unless carbine is necessary for length. There is absolutely no reason why they should not be a direct competitor to BCM. As Colt got old and fudd'ish, BCM came in and offered excellent QC, reliability, and simple innovation that Colt didn't have.

I know there are many on this board that consider the 6920 a go to recommendation but I would not recommend a Colt for any platform in any caliber. The only thing they make in my opinion that's worth a dam is their lowers with their parts but I feel none of that can be trusted as of late. They are Remington in so many ways and in my opinion deserve Remington's death. Somehow by the grace of god they got purchased by a weapons manufacturer that actually knows their shit and can use them as a US based hedge if the Biden administration does something to limit imports.

I completely agree with Stick that they should ditch CT and the union. They would be far better off to move to TX or WY.

1168
02-13-21, 16:55
I hope that this will mean Colt monolithic MLOK rifles for those of us in the US

With rail and barrel lengths similar to the SR15/16

Mjolnir
02-13-21, 17:31
M4 SOCOM barrels but mid length for... me. [emoji2375][emoji38]


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okie
02-13-21, 18:53
I fail to see how Colt is lagging behind. They make the toughest milspec bolts on the market. They make the most accurate/long wearing chrome lined barrels on the market. What's not to love???

If you go screwing with it, you'll end up with one of two things. Either another KAC/LMT at 2500 bucks a pop, or another BCM with sometimes questionable milspec quality with "modern" features that are more marketing than substance for 1500 a pop.

Personally I'll take the tried and true for 800 thank you very much.

Arik
02-13-21, 19:17
The 6920 as a carbine gas gun needs to die. I would recommend that they focus on midlength gas unless carbine is necessary for length. There is absolutely no reason why they should not be a direct competitor to BCM. As Colt got old and fudd'ish, BCM came in and offered excellent QC, reliability, and simple innovation that Colt didn't have.

I know there are many on this board that consider the 6920 a go to recommendation but I would not recommend a Colt for any platform in any caliber. The only thing they make in my opinion that's worth a dam is their lowers with their parts but I feel none of that can be trusted as of late. They are Remington in so many ways and in my opinion deserve Remington's death. Somehow by the grace of god they got purchased by a weapons manufacturer that actually knows their shit and can use them as a US based hedge if the Biden administration does something to limit imports.

I completely agree with Stick that they should ditch CT and the union. They would be far better off to move to TX or WY.Completely lost me. Id understand if there was some vast noticable improvement in reliability and parts longevity. But there really isn't. What is BCM giving me (talking about pre 2020) for $1000+ that a 6920 won't for half the price.

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grizzlyblake
02-13-21, 20:48
Pre 2020 a 6920 was what, $800? And a BCM was $1200.

With the BCM you got essentially the same mil spec reliability but also got a modern barrel profile with mid length gas system, hybrid comp/flash hider, ergonomic charging handle, free floated MLOK rail, and better furniture.

Plus fantastic customer service. I sent a 6920 Trooper back to Colt because it arrived with a broken rail mount bolt. It took months of me chasing Colt just to get it back.

I bought a complete BCM lower from Brownells that arrived with a sticky bolt catch. BCM took it back directly, paid shipping both ways, and had it back to me in a week.


The only interesting gun Colt made in the last decade was the 6960 CCU. The specs were nearly identical to a 16Ē BCM Recce ELW, but with a basic A2 bird cage. Of course it was a short run that they discontinued. Makes sense.


To answer the OP - Colt should start churning out 6960s at high volume for competitive prices.

Diamondback
02-13-21, 21:22
One foot in the past and one in the future--keep certain core "bread and butter" models in regular production and cycle through "retro/repro" offerings a few a year, but also look at what everybody's doing today and then try to take the next step whatever it may be. Try to lead the industry not chase it, and do a "sorta-open-source" licensing thing like Magpul with M-Lok to try to ensure that good ideas get a chance at traction in the industry along with honest competition to ensure that the best come out on top. At the same time, collaborate with Crane, Picatinny etc. trying to work on the next generation of features DOD wants.

And when I say Retro/Repro, I don't mean "cosmetic only" like those bastardized faux-"1903 Pocket Hammerless" abortions that can't even use original magazines never mind actual parts... I mean true repro, full parts interchange compatibility as far as practical.

gunnerblue
02-13-21, 21:23
Base-model OEM 1 and 2's like they did a short while back without furniture with lightweight vs SOCCOM-profile barrels and either FSB's or low-profile gas blocks.

Also, a return and expansion of the 901 line.

As far as being a foreign company, no one cares. CZ is an excellent firearms manufacturer and FN has produced some of JMB's best designs.

JediGuy
02-14-21, 22:23
On the 5.56 side:
6960 is the easy button and should become a/the standard but with a Colt handguard to avoid paying Centurion on every unit (despite my love for Centurion, it doesnít make sense). Make this the go-to option for anyone who wants their first AR and isnít afraid to pay more than $500.
Then do monolithic M-Lok 11.5 pencil, 11.5 and 14.5 (midlength) SOCOM profiles in both rifles and complete uppers.
Then a 6960 profile with FSB for old times sake.
Donít sell any uppers without a BCG.

On the larger semi-auto side:
Bring back their 308/6.5CM deal for a righteous price that makes it, instead of DPMS, the non-KAC/LMT standard.

Those are easy things that establish them in a volume semi-auto market.
They should also keep cloned carbine options coming in for people who want to have what troops carried, but not making that their focus...just a steady income with a supply just enough to keep the price on the upper end.

Iíd really like to see some sort of collaborative work on a super small 9mm sub gun. It may not make good sense, since the Scorpion is out there making plenty of waves, but it could be cool. Particularly if they could make something that competes with B&T from an American company.

Also, I have tons of family, immediate and extended, that work for unionized companies. I have worked on both sides myself. I state this as fact, not opinion: Unions are primarily a pathogen that eat away at a companyís health, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly. Unfortunately, some managers/owners have asked for this illness by associating with prostitutes or constant cigarette usage (whichever analogy works for you, you get the idea). Colt needs to move, and CZ needs to make whatever payoffs they need to to make it happen.

Edit: Also, suppressors. Good ones.

VIP3R 237
02-14-21, 22:28
The cr6960 is already back in production, just as with most things impossible to find

CRAMBONE
02-14-21, 23:02
On a serious note: I’d like to see another 7.62 AR option. Not the 901 but something lightweight, accurate, KAC and LMT receiver compatible, and cheaper than both.

everready73
02-15-21, 10:27
Modernize the 6920 (while keeping it as a base option) same with all their models of various barrel lengths. off better barrel profile, different rail choices etc

They have a good opportunity to really get some share of the 1911 market with colt as well. Cz owns dan wesson i believe, they have the knowledge do do something good here

A poly pistol for colt??

Bring back the 901 ar10 variants.

Headache
02-15-21, 15:08
Not much more that one can recommend than what has already been stated here. Outside of moving to a more friendly state, I would really like to see their retro models offered at a reasonable price.

okie
02-18-21, 06:56
Modernize the 6920 (while keeping it as a base option) same with all their models of various barrel lengths. off better barrel profile, different rail choices etc

They have a good opportunity to really get some share of the 1911 market with colt as well. Cz owns dan wesson i believe, they have the knowledge do do something good here

A poly pistol for colt??

Bring back the 901 ar10 variants.

I agree the A2 profile is backwards, but especially with the shorter lengths it's of very little actual consequence. In fact, the larger journal is preferred with pinned gas blocks. I think the downside of changing the profile is then there would be a commercial line next to their contract lines, which would endanger the quality control of the commercially available guns. And they already offer the SOCOM and FBI profiles that are available to the public, so there's already a pretty good variety to be had.

Stickman
02-20-21, 16:17
On a serious note: I’d like to see another 7.62 AR option. Not the 901 but something lightweight, accurate, KAC and LMT receiver compatible, and cheaper than both.

I think the 901 issue was that it was never heavily marketed or pushed. There is zero need to sell something as a 5.56 & 7.62 model if you are never going to actually do the conversion pieces. People hate it, and they don't forget.

I absolutely feel that a basic Armalite style AR10 would sell well for Colt. Keep it as the SR15 parts setup, then sell a basic and an upgraded model.

Coal Dragger
02-21-21, 04:14
To do list for CZ with Colt brand guns:

1.) Discontinue the 6920 for the 6960. Thatís easy enough. Offer various grades of 6960 via rails, sights, ambi controls, triggers, and muzzle devices etc.

2.) Bring back the 7.62 platform gun. The tooling already exists and thereís a market.

3.) Colt canít make DA revolvers fast enough, so make more of them. Reintroduce the Anaconda in .44 Magnum. Donít screw it up with marred muzzle crowns and loose side plates. Develop some wheel guns with a top strap that will accept an RDS mount easily, develop a mount that gets the optic down low.

4.) Develop or rebrand a polymer framed duty pistol, striker fired, optic ready, and competitively priced. Even if itís a gussied up American made Colt branded P10 its better than nothing.

5.) Have the guys at Dan Wesson look over the Colt 1911 line and figure out what the hell to do with them. Either make them price competitive, or actually worth the current asking price. Maybe let Dan Wesson make pretty 1911ís and concentrate Colt on duty grade stuff.

6.) Leverage Colts manufacturing capacity to possibly supply parts for their other US brands and prepare to make CZ products in the US if needed. Also if Dan Wesson canít get the DWX in production maybe give it to Colt.

7.) Last and maybe most importantly, improve customer service. Hire people and train them to fix guns quickly, make customers happy, and provide the kind of service civilians expect when they buy what is perceived as a premium product. If Joe Blow sends his gun in because itís not running right make sure it returns to Joe running like a raped ape on bath salts, with some free swag, and do it in a reasonable amount of time. That goes a long way towards getting repeat business in the civvy market, thereís no more GWOT and .gov contracts cannot be relied upon to pay the bills.

prepare
02-21-21, 06:46
The politics involved in government contracts probably had more to do with Colt's downfall than anything else.
The same thing will happen to SIG.
SOLGW and BCM are wise to limit the political gov contract side of the house and focus on the commercial market.

1168
02-21-21, 07:03
6.) Leverage Colts manufacturing capacity to possibly supply parts for their other US brands and prepare to make CZ products in the US if needed. Also if Dan Wesson canít get the DWX in production maybe give it to Colt.


Iíve read about that pistol before, but this is my first time hearing about it here. Iíll start a thread; I previously assumed there was no interest here. It looks very appealing, particularly the compact model. No one I know has seen one in the wild yet, including my local cop shop that has had a $&@Äpile of them on order since, like....forever.

Stickman
02-21-21, 13:56
I’ve read about that pistol before, but this is my first time hearing about it here. I’ll start a thread; I previously assumed there was no interest here. It looks very appealing, particularly the compact model. No one I know has seen one in the wild yet, including my local cop shop that has had a $&@€pile of them on order since, like....forever.

Feel free to start a new thread about it in this forum. We have a pretty good crew that tends to post here, and we are a little more open to ideas or at least not as strict as some of the board posting rules.

Diamondback
02-21-21, 14:05
Looks like little to no meaningful change coming:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/02/15/cz-buys-colt/

Stickman
02-21-21, 14:08
Looks like little to no meaningful change coming:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/02/15/cz-buys-colt/

I read that, but to be fair, until a new management team is ready I would expect them to ease into everything. I can't see anyway they would want to not merge factories and production capabilities.

Diamondback
02-21-21, 14:15
I read that, but to be fair, until a new management team is ready I would expect them to ease into everything. I can't see anyway they would want to not merge factories and production capabilities.

Merging production facilities is obvious, but as long as the current Colt mismanagement and anti-gun siting are maintained they're hamstrung. OTOH, they kinda do need to make nice through the honeymoon phase until the regulatory approvals are in and they can get more astute people into position... disgruntled personnel have a certain way of sabotaging things on their way out the door, so sometimes some of them really do need to be Pearl Harbored with the severance.

Diamondback
02-21-21, 14:15
doubletap

OldArmy01
02-21-21, 16:43
I'm personally more interested in what Colt/CZ might do with handguns personally. That said, Colt made some interesting rifles in the past that were fairly interesting, so who knows.

I agree with OP in that I'd like to see the top brass gone. Perhaps they're around just to answer questions for the next 6 months to a year.

1168
02-21-21, 17:01
Feel free to start a new thread about it in this forum. We have a pretty good crew that tends to post here, and we are a little more open to ideas or at least not as strict as some of the board posting rules.

In the semiauto pistol forum: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?228718-Dan-Wesson-DWX&highlight=

okie
02-21-21, 19:02
Looks like little to no meaningful change coming:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/02/15/cz-buys-colt/

Good news! Hopefully they really mean it.

Diamondback
02-21-21, 19:07
Good news! Hopefully they really mean it.

Not so much, if they're sticking with Hartford and only giving those who dug the hole in the first place new shovels...

call_me_ski
02-22-21, 22:45
To do list:

1. Get the Colt Canada MRR offered here. They truly are some of the finest rifles available anywhere in the world. Offer 5.56 Mlok and railed guns in 10, 11.5, 14.5 and 16 and call it done.

2. Keep the 6920 around and add a dolled up version that offer a modern handguard that is priced below the 6940 at the moment.

3. Create modern Colt handgun. A dolled up P10 is the easiest answer and it can be at marketed heavily to the Canadians because they wanted a license to make a handgun to replace their high-powers domestically. They recently amended this requirement because no offers where forthcoming but CZís acquisition of Colt Canada may have changed the equation. The market doesnít need another striker fired 9mm, but colt sure does. Market this gun heavily to LE. They know and trust the Colt name unlike CZ. If for some reason they design something from the ground up use a chassis.

4. Reintroduce the 901 with the Mlok handguard the Canadians have and actually market it. They have a winner but just sat on it.

5. Move Colt 1911 production to Dan Wesson. Keep the Colt Rail CCU(add a commander variant as well), M45A1, and modernize the rest of the line (with sights and beavertails) but keep them classic in appearance. Add a WWI and WWII reproductions. Should pair nicely with Dan Wessonís more contemporary style and not cannibalize each other.

6. ADD A MARKETING DEPARTMENT

7. Expand their revolver line up. Add a couple more stylized versions similar to the Smith SSR etc.

8. Market the Colt Canada EAGLE as a 40mm less lethal launcher as a package with rifles and pistols to LE.

This is off the top of my head.

1168
02-23-21, 00:06
6. ADD A MARKETING DEPARTMENT
.

Why??

Stickman
02-23-21, 10:52
Why??

Because they outsource it last I knew.

call_me_ski
02-23-21, 11:12
Why??

Because they need to stay relevant. Especially if they actually begin introducing new guns.

Also the need to sell me a CK901.

PracticalRifleman
02-23-21, 11:17
I think itís hard to argue that moving and ditching the union will be in Coltís interest. A real market research operation is also imperative moving forward.

They need to be competitive. I know many will prefer a stock 6920, but in the commercial market things like the Springfield Saint outsells 6920s. Being ďpureĒ doesnít matter if it doesnít keep the lights on.

And quit making butt-ugly 1911s....hereís looking at you new Combat Elites.


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Vandal
02-23-21, 13:09
There is a lot to unpack and attempt to fix with Colt. Right now, they are not well known outside of certain circles and on the commercial side exist out on the edges. At one point, the 6920 was *the* baseline rifle for a fighting gun. I think the first major step is getting out of CT and dumping the union, I say this as a union member. That should be coordinated with a mass firing of all brass and prior military officers working in management. I agree with the 2 weeks of any in an envelope with security marching the suits to the doors. Colt is a dying business who lived for years on gov't contracts with no reason or desire to innovate anything, kinda like HK but worse.

I think the folks at Dan Wesson need to take over 1911 and revolver production. There is a gap on quality control and aesthetics with Colt 1911s when compared to DW guns. Stop acting like Sig with 62 (according to the website) versions of a 1911 and focus on building maybe 5-10 really well. Same with the revolvers, they show 15 versions on their website now. They might want to at least acknowledge they Fudds and Boomers aren't buying as many guns and are dying out. A well built Colt 1911 that is RMR compatible would be a good thing to offer now. Colt ARs aren't the top step any more either. They need someone, anyone, who can get that mess back on track starting with bringing all part production back in house and cutting back on models offered until those are again mastered.

Colt's marketing and social media presence is pitiful. Meanwhile CZ, Sig, Glock, and Walther are all about that game and gun games. Go look at Colt's Instagram, they have 1299 posts of 1911s, revolvers, old timey leather, black and white photos, clothing, old movie and TV show references, and boring pictures of their competition shooters. Very few photos of their AR line make it. That does not appeal to those of us in "Gun Culture 2.0" and they aren't getting our dollars. Colt should also lose the NRA banner ad on their website and join up with someone else. I remember Colt and the NRA selling us out to the Clintons in the 90s.

Diamondback
02-23-21, 13:34
So many good ideas from Vandal above. Pare each line down to a "Regular Production" core of about half a dozen models, maybe a dozen at most, then have 2 or 3 slots in the catalog for "Classics Revisited" that switch out every year. The basic WWI 1911, WWII 1911A1 and "standard" 4.75" SAA should all be Regular Prod models, things like the "Wyatt Earp Buntline" should be "yearly specials."

Definitely get their head out of their ass in more tech- and parts-sharing across the border, I would LOVE to replace the airsoft-crap tri-rail on our C8 with the real deal.

Arik
02-23-21, 20:07
How about just some left hand friendly guns?!?

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VIP3R 237
02-24-21, 08:23
How about just some left hand friendly guns?!?

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I remember at Shot show in 2015 or 16 Colt had a bunch of their M4’s set up with the same right side bolt catch as their 901 rifles. I never understood why they didn’t make it to production.

Arik
02-24-21, 08:53
I remember at Shot show in 2015 or 16 Colt had a bunch of their M4ís set up with the same right side bolt catch as their 901 rifles. I never understood why they didnít make it to production.And CZ is no better, although their new new firearms are ambi (P10, Scorpion,) VZ58 is accidentally lefty.

Their legacy handguns.. The 75 and it's newer versions have decockers on the left side but finding one with a right side decocker is like finding a unicorn. And they make like one left hand bolt action in a limited amount of calibers. It's 2021! Let's step out of 1980

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PracticalRifleman
02-24-21, 09:59
And CZ is no better, although their new new firearms are ambi (P10, Scorpion,) VZ58 is accidentally lefty.

Their legacy handguns.. The 75 and it's newer versions have decockers on the left side but finding one with a right side decocker is like finding a unicorn. And they make like one left hand bolt action in a limited amount of calibers. It's 2021! Let's step out of 1980

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When they canít keep up with demand in right handed rifles, why would they shut down and change everything over, wasting valuable time, to cater to the less than 3% of rifle sales? There are holster makers out there that donít even offer lefties because it isnít profitable.


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Arik
02-24-21, 10:15
When they canít keep up with demand in right handed rifles, why would they shut down and change everything over, wasting valuable time, to cater to the less than 3% of rifle sales? There are holster makers out there that donít even offer lefties because it isnít profitable.


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Because left handed people existed before this panic. S&W figured it out in 2005 with the introduction of the M&P. Ruger( my Ruger is from the mid 90s), Savage and Remington didn't seem to have a problem making left handed bolt action rifles. Even shity Bersa was making completely ambi handguns back in 08. Just add a decocker to the other side. Not exactly redesigning the entire gun from the ground up



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PracticalRifleman
02-24-21, 10:33
Because left handed people existed before this panic. S&W figured it out in 2005 with the introduction of the M&P. Ruger( my Ruger is from the mid 90s), Savage and Remington didn't seem to have a problem making left handed bolt action rifles. Even shity Bersa was making completely ambi handguns back in 08. Just add a decocker to the other side. Not exactly redesigning the entire gun from the ground up



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They may exist but that isnít where the profit is.

Remington and Savage do make left bolt but not every model and caliber is available.

When itís more profitable not to, they wonít.


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agr1279
02-24-21, 10:44
I think itís hard to argue that moving and ditching the union will be in Coltís interest. A real market research operation is also imperative moving forward.

They need to be competitive. I know many will prefer a stock 6920, but in the commercial market things like the Springfield Saint outsells 6920s. Being ďpureĒ doesnít matter if it doesnít keep the lights on.

And quit making butt-ugly 1911s....hereís looking at you new Combat Elites.


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A major reason for Colt to keep the basic 6920 is LE purchases. Most times they need to stay within budget constraints in order to purchase quality equipment at the quantity they need. Also most cops arenít gun guys/gals. Just go to the annual rifle training and watch them fumble around just trying to clear basic jam.

Letís face it the 6920 is similar to the F150 bone stock work truck. It sells.

Dan


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PracticalRifleman
02-24-21, 11:23
A major reason for Colt to keep the basic 6920 is LE purchases. Most times they need to stay within budget constraints in order to purchase quality equipment at the quantity they need. Also most cops arenít gun guys/gals. Just go to the annual rifle training and watch them fumble around just trying to clear basic jam.

Letís face it the 6920 is similar to the F150 bone stock work truck. It sells.

Dan


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Except 6920s make a small small small minority of civilian sales.


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MWAG19919
02-26-21, 21:44
I'll second the idea of a SOCOM profile midlength

Vandal
02-28-21, 02:13
Except 6920s make a small small small minority of civilian sales.
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The LE6920 should be one of Colt's bread and butter rifles that they churn out like the F150. Again, Colt marketing is a$$ compared with even Anderson's Poverty Ponies.

Stickman
03-01-21, 14:04
The LE6920 should be one of Colt's bread and butter rifles that they churn out like the F150. Again, Colt marketing is a$$ compared with even Anderson's Poverty Ponies.

Agreed, and I like that analogy of the Colt 6920 with the Ford F150.

Jsp10477
03-01-21, 21:17
Keep the 6920
Market the 6960
Add a stainless recce or spr to the 5.56 line
Offer the C20 in the US with a longer handguard with 16, 18, and 20” barrel options.
Offer the C20 in 6.5Creedmoor with options above.
Bring back the CM762 and CM6.5
Offer and stock parts for the large frames. Charging handles, bolts, bcg’s, barrels, etc.
Bring the 1911 quality up to the price point.
Put Colt’s name on the P 07,09,10
Roll out a social media campaign that isn’t Fudd Centric
Sponsor some forums. Lulz, but for real.
Give away a shitload of rifles and handguns to social media influencers
As stated earlier, put new management in place and give the current management the 2 weeks severance and security escort off the property.
Move to a gun friendly, right to work state.
Continue to build quality duty grade firearms. People will pay the price if they offer what the market wants.

T2C
03-02-21, 11:13
Improved quality control and customer service will carry a lot of weight with the shooting community. Do not ship any product to vendors that looks like it was machined with a dull hatchet. Respond quickly to the private sector when they have a warranty issue or want custom shop work performed.

The accountants should look at what was most profitable over the years and start producing those firearms until the company gains momentum. Do one or two things well, then expand the product line.

If I was on the board of directors at CZ, I would not count on any government contracts to aid in Colt's recovery. Decisions about how to improve sales in the private sector should be their first priority. After they are established and doing well in the private sector market, bidding on government contracts would be a future option.

wrenchhead12
10-05-21, 22:31
It would be cool if they could bring back the Colt CS stocks. They would sell everyone of them.

Stickman
10-09-21, 17:48
It would be cool if they could bring back the Colt CS stocks. They would sell everyone of them.

If they didn't throw out the molds, that would be great! I'm not sure if they did or not, but companies don't look at things the way we do.

okie
10-09-21, 20:19
If they didn't throw out the molds, that would be great! I'm not sure if they did or not, but companies don't look at things the way we do.

Those molds wear out, so they probably just didn't replace them when the last one gave up the ghost.

Diamondback
10-09-21, 20:37
Those molds wear out, so they probably just didn't replace them when the last one gave up the ghost.

If it's the same CS as Colt Canada, I think they still make 'em up there for short fixed-stock applications. I know on the C7A2 they were replaced with a heavy-buffer CAR telestock kit...

MikhailBarracuda91
10-10-21, 13:31
They should make the CS stocks again. There's no good options for a good A1 stock. At least none that I've found

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T2C
10-10-21, 21:54
The huge issue is quality control. If CZ improves quality control, which I expect they will do, I may start buying Colts again.

wrenchhead12
10-11-21, 10:52
If they didn't throw out the molds, that would be great! I'm not sure if they did or not, but companies don't look at things the way we do. That is true.

Hammer_Man
10-11-21, 16:11
Fire the management clowns, fire the Union, and move the factory to Utah or Texas. Staff an R&D department. Make receivers that arenít wobbly fitting, and make the lowers with a mil spec pocket (to annoy the commies). Keep the 6920, and other classics in production. Make a new line of modernized rifles with ambi features, m-lok rails, mid length gas, etcÖ. Keep prices competitive.

300blkjunkie
10-21-21, 01:40
They should make more 527 mags. Haven't been in stock for ages.

300blkjunkie
10-21-21, 01:59
They should also pay proper respects to the OG and produce things with his name on them to the best of modern capability and not bend over for shareholders or government contracts.

We can dream.

OldArmy01
10-21-21, 06:50
Fire the management clowns, fire the Union, and move the factory to Utah or Texas. Staff an R&D department. Make receivers that aren’t wobbly fitting, and make the lowers with a mil spec pocket (to annoy the commies). Keep the 6920, and other classics in production. Make a new line of modernized rifles with ambi features, m-lok rails, mid length gas, etc…. Keep prices competitive.

I agree with all this except the union bit… maybe some sort of compromise there, and throw GA or FL into the running for places to move the plant to, otherwise all that.

Stickman
10-21-21, 13:03
I agree with all this except the union bit…

What part about it vexes you? If there is something you think that the Colt union brings to the table to make it a better place, I think it is important that we are aware of it. Many of us have no love for unions, that includes people who have been in them as well as those who haven't.

OldArmy01
10-21-21, 15:58
What part about it vexes you? If there is something you think that the Colt union brings to the table to make it a better place, I think it is important that we are aware of it. Many of us have no love for unions, that includes people who have been in them as well as those who haven't.

Let me first say I fully understand unions can be abusive, I’m not advocating that and advocate against that. Also let me state I do not have any idea as to the pay scale or benefits Colt offers it’s employees, they may be great. It’s been my experience however as a blue collar guy (TIG) welders, that most employers at least in my experience, if they can get away with paying you as little as possible, they will. Even if (like in my case) you’re a talented and skilled worker. (I’m not rooting my horn but I’m pretty good with TIG, meh with MIG, which is backwards of most welders but that’s just because I have spent so much time welding via TIG the lack of control with a MIG is frankly, annoying)

Which is why I said maybe some sort of compromise, al I’m after is employers paying their employees well and offering decent benefits in the areas pertaining to health insurance and retirement.

No I’m not saying the janitor should be paid $30/hr, but a skilled worker ought to be able to afford health insurance for his family and a small house/reasonable expenses etc. and in my area there seems to be a growing pay gap even among skilled workers and so I’m starting to warm up to such ideas as unions… only in so much as it relates to a company that’s making massive profits and arguably abusing its employees via low pay and benefits.

So yeah not arguing for $20/hr to flip burgers or mop floors but for skilled technicians and skilled laborers, we ought to get paid a reasonable living wage. Hell I’m leaving my state soon due to low pay for what I do. Which is crazy to me… but with welding it very much depends on whose the employer not just your skill level or quality of character as a worker. (Being on time, focused and doing a good job, ot being argumentative etc.)

Diz
10-21-21, 16:00
Oh man. I support this message fully. Get the **** out of Conn. Dump the union. Dump upper management. Move to SC. Hire good GUN folks. Re-focus on building weapons for the civilian market. They created a whole after-market industry by refusing to sell us what we wanted for decades. Sell us the guns/parts we need to make Crane/NSW MK18's. Sell us tanodized upper and lower sets, M4 Carbine marked. Sell us Colt bbls, and all the other parts we need. Let me walk into a retail store, just like PSA, and load up on everything I want. Make industry partnerships for other required items such as optics, mounts, lights, lasers. In other words, what any good retail AR business is doing. Maybe I don't know, get on the cutting edge of what's being done with other AR models and be relevant again. Develop new parts, like rails, trigger groups, BCG's (especially for SBR's w/cans), and all the shit that other vendors have brought out and made huge businesses out of because Colt refused to do so.

Oh yeah, and keep rocking out the 6920 concept. Offer it bare bones, with choices of bbl length, gas length & and low pro GB, beefed up BCG's, and maybe, offer completion parts such as BUIS, RDS's, and furniture, incl FF rails. Maybe even monolithic uppers.

Remove all over-compliant features such as lower receiver blocks. Make new, low shelf lowers. Just because, we couldn't have them for decades.

This would be epic. All the features we want on modern rifles, with Colt M4 Carbine rollmarks. They couldn't keep these parts in stock, IMHO.

Pappabear
10-21-21, 21:53
Bring back the Colt 308/6.5 CM. And how bout a Colt 2011? And some new M4's.

PB

mRad
10-21-21, 22:32
Let me first say I fully understand unions can be abusive, Iím not advocating that and advocate against that. Also let me state I do not have any idea as to the pay scale or benefits Colt offers itís employees, they may be great. Itís been my experience however as a blue collar guy (TIG) welders, that most employers at least in my experience, if they can get away with paying you as little as possible, they will. Even if (like in my case) youíre a talented and skilled worker. (Iím not rooting my horn but Iím pretty good with TIG, meh with MIG, which is backwards of most welders but thatís just because I have spent so much time welding via TIG the lack of control with a MIG is frankly, annoying)

Which is why I said maybe some sort of compromise, al Iím after is employers paying their employees well and offering decent benefits in the areas pertaining to health insurance and retirement.

No Iím not saying the janitor should be paid $30/hr, but a skilled worker ought to be able to afford health insurance for his family and a small house/reasonable expenses etc. and in my area there seems to be a growing pay gap even among skilled workers and so Iím starting to warm up to such ideas as unionsÖ only in so much as it relates to a company thatís making massive profits and arguably abusing its employees via low pay and benefits.

So yeah not arguing for $20/hr to flip burgers or mop floors but for skilled technicians and skilled laborers, we ought to get paid a reasonable living wage. Hell Iím leaving my state soon due to low pay for what I do. Which is crazy to meÖ but with welding it very much depends on whose the employer not just your skill level or quality of character as a worker. (Being on time, focused and doing a good job, ot being argumentative etc.)

Unions are terrible. They are one of the greatest contributors to inflation. The union guns cost more and are in shorter supply.

F the union.


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OldArmy01
10-22-21, 05:52
[QUOTE=mRad;2985668]Unions are terrible. They are one of the greatest contributors to inflation. The union guns cost more and are in shorter supply.

F the union.


Okay, we’ll from my vantage point we’re partly where we are because the public in general would prefer to buy lower priced Chinese made junk than save up a little longer and buy a quality made American made product or other higher end foreign made product. Hence chinamart/ Walmart. It’s frankly stupid to build up an enemies economy but here we are. So given that you’ll have to excuse me if I dismiss your view as simply being cheap.

To the above other economic issue it’s my opinion we should as a country only do business with allies. Like import bans on products from everyone else, screw’em.

P.S. I don’thate the Chinese people, I do hate the CCP though.

Perhaps I can clarify a little though, I don’t think the subject of unions can come up and not discuss other things so I’m not try to take this off topic, but. I’d agree that in general unions or the execution of unions has not been anywhere near ideal, so I’d be all for some sort of legislative reform or this could also bring up the discussion of profit caps. No I’m not a pure capitalist, I also don’t purely support the free market as you may see above, I’m also not a Democrat. I do love my country though in spite of the corruption and of our society degradation. I’m also not a commie so don’t come at me like that just because we may disagree on something here.

mRad
10-22-21, 07:21
[QUOTE=mRad;2985668]Unions are terrible. They are one of the greatest contributors to inflation. The union guns cost more and are in shorter supply.

F the union.


Okay, weíll from my vantage point weíre partly where we are because the public in general would prefer to buy lower priced Chinese made junk than save up a little longer and buy a quality made American made product or other higher end foreign made product. Hence chinamart/ Walmart. Itís frankly stupid to build up an enemies economy but here we are. So given that youíll have to excuse me if I dismiss your view as simply being cheap.

To the above other economic issue itís my opinion we should as a country only do business with allies. Like import bans on products from everyone else, screwíem.

P.S. I doníthate the Chinese people, I do hate the CCP though.

Perhaps I can clarify a little though, I donít think the subject of unions can come up and not discuss other things so Iím not try to take this off topic, but. Iíd agree that in general unions or the execution of unions has not been anywhere near ideal, so Iíd be all for some sort of legislative reform or this could also bring up the discussion of profit caps. No Iím not a pure capitalist, I also donít purely support the free market as you may see above, Iím also not a Democrat. I do love my country though in spite of the corruption and of our society degradation. Iím also not a commie so donít come at me like that just because we may disagree on something here.


You may dismiss my view as being ďcheapĒ, but the truth is the union priced themselves out of the market always asking for more, more, more.

When GM went bankrupt, UAW members working in their plan were making nearly $120/hr with their benefits package for unskilled labor. Let that sink in. Non-union auto workers in the same region were earning $70/hr with their benefits package. Somehow, those companies didnít go bankrupt.

Those UAW cars arenít better.

You can have US-production without unionization, and the less unionization, the more likely those jobs stay in the US.

Again, unions are one of the greatest contributors to inflation and one of the driving forces of outsourcing, as completely evident by the current trend in the auto market.


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Diz
10-22-21, 09:34
Well, yes, and no. Not a big fan of unions, but not a big fan of fat-cat capitalists either. The problem is there is fault on both sides, so singling out one or the other doesn't really solve the issue. I have worked in manufacturing for over 20 years, in union and non-union shops. I've seen the good, bad, and ugly. The unions played a significant role in the demise of the auto industry, but so did the corporate players. There were no innocent parties there. Greed cuts across all layers of society.

We're talking about a balance of power, between labor and management. Too much either way isn't a good thing. But since we're talking about people here, it becomes a struggle for domination, not equality. That's just our nature. You need a mechanism to balance the two interests, and though unions have the right idea, they frequently get abused. And the working man gets stuck between a rock and a hard place. Neither side has his best interest at heart. So all in all, I think each man should control his own destiny. If your welder can't get a square deal, then up-stakes and go somewhere else. Don't squat in one place and expect someone else to take care of you. Or if you can't find any work as a welder, then re-train yourself and get into field that is more competitive.

Sure I made good wages in a union shop, but it never lasted. It's kind of a pay me a lot now, and lay me off, or pay me a decent wage that can be sustained-type of thing. Trust me, when things get tough, touch labor is the first thing to go. That's just the way it is. The guy with the money and ideas gets to decide what he wants to do. Unions frequently only aggravate the situation where the owners make poor decisions, run out of money, and the working man takes it in ass.

I think the "Right to Work" states have the best idea. It seems to strike a good balance between labor and management. That's why I'd love to see Colt move to SC. The state works with local community colleges and new businesses to train folks in the exact skills needed to work in decent paying jobs. Neither side really holds sway over the other. The companies want good workers; the people want good jobs. The market seems to balance itself out.

OldArmy01
10-22-21, 11:39
[QUOTE=OldArmy01;2985714]


You may dismiss my view as being “cheap”, but the truth is the union priced themselves out of the market always asking for more, more, more.

When GM went bankrupt, UAW members working in their plan were making nearly $120/hr with their benefits package for unskilled labor. Let that sink in. Non-union auto workers in the same region were earning $70/hr with their benefits package. Somehow, those companies didn’t go bankrupt.

Those UAW cars aren’t better.

You can have US-production without unionization, and the less unionization, the more likely those jobs stay in the US.

Again, unions are one of the greatest contributors to inflation and one of the driving forces of outsourcing, as completely evident by the current trend in the auto market.


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We’re not effectively communicating here. I pointed out I did see problems with the execution of unions up to this point, and that I thought some form of legislative reform pertaining to them is in order. Man is simply greedy, it shouldn’t be a surprise.

OldArmy01
10-22-21, 11:43
Well, yes, and no. Not a big fan of unions, but not a big fan of fat-cat capitalists either. The problem is there is fault on both sides, so singling out one or the other doesn't really solve the issue. I have worked in manufacturing for over 20 years, in union and non-union shops. I've seen the good, bad, and ugly. The unions played a significant role in the demise of the auto industry, but so did the corporate players. There were no innocent parties there. Greed cuts across all layers of society.

We're talking about a balance of power, between labor and management. Too much either way isn't a good thing. But since we're talking about people here, it becomes a struggle for domination, not equality. That's just our nature. You need a mechanism to balance the two interests, and though unions have the right idea, they frequently get abused. And the working man gets stuck between a rock and a hard place. Neither side has his best interest at heart. So all in all, I think each man should control his own destiny. If your welder can't get a square deal, then up-stakes and go somewhere else. Don't squat in one place and expect someone else to take care of you. Or if you can't find any work as a welder, then re-train yourself and get into field that is more competitive.

Sure I made good wages in a union shop, but it never lasted. It's kind of a pay me a lot now, and lay me off, or pay me a decent wage that can be sustained-type of thing. Trust me, when things get tough, touch labor is the first thing to go. That's just the way it is. The guy with the money and ideas gets to decide what he wants to do. Unions frequently only aggravate the situation where the owners make poor decisions, run out of money, and the working man takes it in ass.

I think the "Right to Work" states have the best idea. It seems to strike a good balance between labor and management. That's why I'd love to see Colt move to SC. The state works with local community colleges and new businesses to train folks in the exact skills needed to work in decent paying jobs. Neither side really holds sway over the other. The companies want good workers; the people want good jobs. The market seems to balance itself out.


GA is also a right to work state.

Also thanks for your input above. I agree about the balancing act, that’s what I was trying to get at.

I will also say I fully believe certain actors in government are intentionally stressing the situation from many different directions to their own ends of trying to bring some new form of communism to America, and well, they’re traitors in my book.

JediGuy
10-22-21, 11:50
As I will always do, Iíll pile on the union topic.

Since the FLSA and OSHA were enacted, unions serve no good for the public at large, instead increasing operating costs for companies by 20-30% conservatively, then passed to consumers.
Unions are however a business model that sells a service to other companiesí either a) disgruntled or b) poor employees. Disgruntled employees are either disgruntled because of poor management (the norm) or an inflated sense of self worth. So they may at times provide a benefit to disgruntled and poor employees, though that ďbenefitĒ typically is very short term.

That is the norm.

I will carve out a cautious and incomplete caveat for unions that do the above but also train workers. Those workers tend to have an edge in skill but come along with an inflated sense of self worth that tends to make them into poor employees in every way except their quality of work. In time, regular employees catch up in skill and exceed in overall performance. However, some of these unions self-regulate and though costing everyone more money can help maintain high standards of work and even job performance.

Obligatory bona fides: I was a union worker, and now I help companies avoid unions. Two days ago, I listened to hourly employees, paid substantially more than union workers in the same industry, describe how frustrating it is going onto a job site where they have to be treated like trash and wait forever to coordinate with union workers. And I didnít bring this up, they did.


Anyway.

I donít know Coltís structure, so I canít state more than opinion. But, I imagine that their most experienced workers are likely part of the union. You canít just ďdumpĒ a union, and Iím pretty sure Connecticut is not a free state. If they relocate and their skilled workers donít go with them, there is going to be an on ramp to catch back up to quality as new hires learn the jobs. Catch-22 for any company, and we all know that plenty of consumers will whine an moan about how bad Colt is due to the change.

Diz
10-27-21, 18:56
That is a pretty good synopsis of union operations and the abuses they perpetuate in the name of "equality". But that being said business ethics have gone in the shitter over the past few decades as well. So you had companies being taken over and ran by investment types that were there strictly to squeeze every dime of profit from the cash cow, and then discard the carcass. BTDT.

All things considered, I still think Colt needs to get the **** out of Connecticut, (I doubt many of those union types would be willing to move), and relocate in a right to work state. Whatever the fallout from that would be so worth it for guys like me that have hated their management for being gov't whores for so long, and turning their back on the citizens. I think their QC has already fallen off since they don't have the large volume gov't contracts anymore, and reality being they haven't done anything innovative in decades, so re-training a workforce shouldn't be that much of a stretch. Get with a willing state and get them trained up through the local community colleges. Somehow the phrase it can get any worse comes to mind.

Dutch110
10-28-21, 10:56
I was in management when the plant I worked at was the focus of an organization effort by a union. First gig out of college and I worked for Tyson back then. The lies they told were pretty amazing. However all it took was for the employees to realize that the wage the union was promising, once they subtracted their dues, would actually be less than what they were making. What was frustrating was that, by law, none of us in management could point that out to anyone or it would have been considered a violation by the NLRB. But it got out.

Management during the industrial revolution created the environment for unions to thrive. Flat out no doubt about it the working man, woman and child were getting abused. But, like many other things in life, the course correction went too far in the other direction. Creating the imbalance of power others have referred to here in this thread.

Little story to underscore the point. Back at that same Tyson plant we had USDA staff on premise at all times. One of the inspectors had failed the civil service exam multiple times and eventually wrote a letter to her senator who pulled strings to get her a waiver. Also USDA is unionized. One day while I escorted this particular inspector while doing pre op inspections we are up on a catwalk roughly 4 feet off the ground. Wet environment. Cement floors. Etc. I was waking on the catwalk in front of this particular inspector (she actually was holding her clip board upside down. She had NO idea what she was doing.) She shoves me from behind, off the catwalk, and says to me "get the F outta my way white boy." I filed a grievance. Her boss, who I was friendly with, just laughed. He said I really wish I could fire her but she has over 40 complaints filed against her and no one will touch her. The union is protecting her. So yeah, I hate unions, lol.

Stickman
10-28-21, 13:45
Mail man just stopped by and we were talking about unions, and afterwards my wife and I talked about them as well. Her feeling is they were a very needed part of America as we developed. I don't disagree.

I would like to bring up something for thought among us (and I appreciate the civility everyone has showed here, which really shows this is the best people posting in my little slice of the internet). Look at how many Federal and State agencies and organizations are wielding massive for injuries, workers rights and similar things which the Unions are supposedly covering. The basic premise for a Union is what? Safety and equality for the workers? The various GOV organizations are a much much scarier concept for employers to worry about than a Union. If I as a cop am injured on the job, and my city doesn't take care of me, the Unions step in and make it right along with a couple bucks for me. If the city doesn't make it right and I go to the state, the state not only makes it right, but also fines the city tens of thousands of dollars. Who would keep workers protected better?

Dutch110
10-28-21, 16:14
Even though I have an overall general dislike for organized labor, I do feel that those who work in the public sector, where the terms of their employment can change based on the whims of public opinion or, even worse, politicians, do have a strong case for needing a collective bargaining agreement. My Dad was a teacher for over 30 years. And while he didn't align at all politically with the teachers unions, every time their contract came up for negotiation they would have been screwed without them. That plant I mentioned above was actually in the school district where my Dad taught. During one of those contract negotiation years I got to hear a lot of chatter on the topic from the folks who worked at the plant. None of them knew my Dad was a teacher. One of the more representative comments came from a guy who was a forklift driver out on the docks. He told me it was "ridiculous for a teacher to come in out of college and start at 25k a year. They should do it because they love it, not for the paycheck. If they need to get a second job to make ends meet that's their problem."

JediGuy
10-29-21, 22:00
To flip that around Dutch, I might ask whether non-public sector workers face a similarly- or greater-challenging force in the market.
And to the point that I think Stick was making, we’re looking at combining the purpose (fighting for monetary and other advantages for their customers) of unions with the power of the state to force us as taxpayers to comply with union demands.
I’m speaking a little out of turn, as public sector unions are not my area. But I think my general point is fair.

Stickman
10-30-21, 14:50
To flip that around Dutch, I might ask whether non-public sector workers face a similarly- or greater-challenging force in the market.
And to the point that I think Stick was making, we’re looking at combining the purpose (fighting for monetary and other advantages for their customers) of unions with the power of the state to force us as taxpayers to comply with union demands.
I’m speaking a little out of turn, as public sector unions are not my area. But I think my general point is fair.

I certainly think we are on the same page, or very very close to it. You can write my newsletters for me!

JediGuy
10-30-21, 16:17
I certainly think we are on the same page, or very very close to it. You can write my newsletters for me!

“What’s the $$?” - Capitalist Me

Dutch110
10-30-21, 19:45
To flip that around Dutch, I might ask whether non-public sector workers face a similarly- or greater-challenging force in the market.
And to the point that I think Stick was making, we’re looking at combining the purpose (fighting for monetary and other advantages for their customers) of unions with the power of the state to force us as taxpayers to comply with union demands.
I’m speaking a little out of turn, as public sector unions are not my area. But I think my general point is fair.

Here is where my management bias shines through. If you're workforce isn't happy, your customers will never be either. That means it behooves us in management to build teams that maybe not love, but don't hate coming to work every day. If you do that, you'll never be subjected to a unionization drive. If you don't, you deserve what you get. This needs to come from the top down. So if we as managers do our jobs right then no. I don't feel that those in the private sector should face those same challenges. And especially when dealing with skilled / professional labor.