View Full Version : California and the homeless issue
It is pretty eye-opening. $13 billion spent over three years and the problem is only getting worse by the day. To be fair, the Covid-19 crisis certainly didn't help matters and the massive state bureaucracy is cumbersome. I'm tending to agree with those that maintain that there simply is no workable solution:
"SAN FRANCISCO -- California has spent $13 billion in the last three years to tackle a massive homelessness problem likely to worsen with the pandemic, yet its approach is so fragmented and incomplete as to hinder efforts at getting people into stable housing, the state auditor said in a report released Thursday.
The office of State Auditor Elaine Howle said that California continues to have the largest homeless population in the nation “likely in part because its approach to addressing homelessness has been disjointed."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...olicy-75835197
Coal Dragger
02-17-21, 20:36
If I was a chief of police or county sheriff and wanted to deal with a local homelessness problem, I would make sure to give a homeless person a shower in jail and then a bus ticket to San Francisco and make sure they got on that bus.
If I was a chief of police or county sheriff and wanted to deal with a local homelessness problem, I would make sure to give a homeless person a shower in jail and then a bus ticket to San Francisco and make sure they got on that bus.
That approach is a real problem. Our medium-sized community has a pretty good handle on getting folks help to get back on their feet. When an organization that had been doing a lot with transitional housing had a real need for overflow housing they approached our church to assist. Through our sweat equity and some dynamite local contractors who donated labor and materials, we ended up with a pretty nice 'in at 7:00P out by 8:00A' overflow/emergency shelter, which along with female and male community sleeping rooms has a couple of rooms that could be dedicated to family.
Problem was, once it opened it seemed every law enforcement agency in the western part of the state pointed transients our way. The result of this has been a continuously full overflow shelter and an increased homeless population.
Since covid hit, it's kind of hard to get an idea of numbers, the fast food joints they used to hang out at during the day have pretty well shut down their dining rooms. As well as that, the public library was closed for quite some time.
During this cold snap I figured we'd lose a couple, but so far nope. One of the things that is difficult about helping these folks is that often they have mental as well as addiction problems. I am not going to take them home, and it's hard to find a motel that will take them, even if you pay the freight. I end up giving them cash enough for a meal (or let's be honest - a bottle) and keeping them in my thought.
Don't send us more.
Since Oregon recently legalized hard drugs, I think we should set up a program where people can sponsor a homeless person/junkie with a one way bus ticket to Portland. Soyattle would be a second option. Count me in for 5 sponsorships.
If I was homeless, I'd definitely find my way to Cali.
When I was in LA for work a year or so ago, I couldn't believe the amount of homeless tent or cardboard cities that seemed to be under every overpass or slightly wooded area.
Build some shelters or modify abandoned buildings or houses but try and put them to work around the area doing something.... But as stated a few have mental or social issues that would compound any attempts at rehab.
titsonritz
02-18-21, 05:51
If I was homeless, I'd definitely find my way to Cali.
Hell yes, Southern Cal beaches, free government dope money and <1000 dollar "shopping" sprees.
titsonritz
02-18-21, 05:53
Since Oregon recently legalized hard drugs, I think we should set up a program where people can sponsor a homeless person/junkie with a one way bus ticket to Portland. Soyattle would be a second option. Count me in for 5 sponsorships.
Believe me there are plenty of junkies up here already and the last thing OR or WA needs is more Californians.
Like most problems out in Cali, I just don’t care. I hope they spend double or triple that in the next three years. I hope there’s so much human shit and needles on the sidewalk that people have to walk in the street because it’s safer. The sooner that state fails or falls into the ocean the better.
Edit: what is truly needed is a couple massive batches of heroin laced or just straight fentanyl and they can hand that out with a hand out the needles and that should alleviate a bit of the drug addict homeless. Then maybe would be able to concentrate on sorting the crazies and the people who actually need help. California can pay for and build a large state run asylum and put all the insane homeless people in. The small percentage of the homeless population that actually needs help that is left would be eligible for resources.
Black_Sheep
02-18-21, 06:59
If I was homeless, I'd definitely find my way to Cali.
It stands to reason that homeless gravitate to states with warmer climates, generous benefits and tolerance for homelessness. There were homeless encampments scattered around the Twin Cities metropolitan area all summer, but only the hardcore stick around for Minnesota winters. The subzero weather would be brutal.
Like most problems out in Cali, I just don’t care. I hope they spend double or triple that in the next three years. I hope there’s so much human shit and needles on the sidewalk that people have to walk in the street because it’s safer. The sooner that state fails or falls into the ocean the better.
Edit: what is truly needed is a couple massive batches of heroin laced or just straight fentanyl and they can hand that out with a hand out the needles and that should alleviate a bit of the drug addict homeless. Then maybe would be able to concentrate on sorting the crazies and the people who actually need help. California can pay for and build a large state run asylum and put all the insane homeless people in. The small percentage of the homeless population that actually needs help that is left would be eligible for resources.
I understand how frustrated you must feel as someone who doesn’t live in CA, wishing for the collapse of the state and all. But you should give a shit and I’ll explain why. Being that CA is one of the 50 states, it likely affects your state in one way or another. As much as you wish there were a moat around CA’s borders filled with alligators, that’s just not going to happen. Hell they can’t even get the southern border wall completed (thank you President Trump got starting it and going strong on it). CA refugees are leaving the state in droves and heading for other “free states”. Same goes for east coast socialists. Look what’s happening to the big metro areas of Idaho, Texas, Arizona, and others with the influx of liberals. Liberalism really is a disease and it spreads like one. There was an LA Times article last month which stated that geriatric joe thinks CA should be the model for the rest of the country to follow. Scary right? If the USA was a person’s body, think of CA as an organ in the body. Say that organ gets cancer. Do you point at it, laugh at it, hope it rots away, and dies? Being that you can’t isolate the diseased organ from the rest of the body, the infection is likely to spread unless it’s treated aggressively. That’s the reality of it. Boise is now Bay Area #2. My good friend who moved there 10 years ago says it sucks so bad now that he plans to come back to the conservative Eastern NorCal area. The influx of liberals from CA & NY have ruined the area, not to mention the Muslim refugees which have been planted there. Think about that. This shit affects everyone.
Saw a homeless bum try to move into what used to be a church across the street from my old shop. (church relocated - building was vacant for a long time)
Called the cops and reported it. Couple of female officers showed up and were not messing around. Dude got a ride out of there quickly and from what they told me was warned to not come back.
He came back. Called cops. Couple of guys showed up and honestly acted like they were scared to go in the building to get the guy out. Crying about how big the place was and how long it would take them to find his ass.
I pointed at my girls (Dobermans) and asked if they wanted to 'borrow' them. The one officer asked if they would bite him. 'If he runs - Yeah. They are taking a few plugs out of his ass'. They declined my offer and reluctantly went in there and got the guy out.
Averageman
02-18-21, 10:13
Whenever and wherever you find a host unwilling or unable to fight the parasites infecting it, the parasites take over and kill the host.
That's not political, that's science.
Everyone has a sob story, few of them give up or prostitutes themselves or lives under a bridge, but if you make that a profitable choice parasites are going to take it. Buy a farm, move them out of town and set them to work. Make drug rehab available, make medical and mental health available.
Work them to sobriety pay them an honest wage, but after a fair trial being sentenced to a work farm/chain gang, should be a viable deterrent.
When it was a viable option, it often worked.
Since Oregon recently legalized hard drugs, I think we should set up a program where people can sponsor a homeless person/junkie with a one way bus ticket to Portland. Soyattle would be a second option. Count me in for 5 sponsorships.
Yeah, I was in Portland in November for work and I was horrible. I grew up on the leftcoast and used to love this place in the 90's and hadn't been back for over 15 years. It was depressing, we drove to a medium sized manufacture south of the airport and the homeless butted right up to some middle class houses. I as a father couldn't imagine sending my son to the corner to be picked up by the school bus as it was now just a homeless encampment. We stuck to business when I talked with the people there, but they did have security as you entered and driving around the parking lot when we parked. I can't say I see the same in the midwest, south, or mountain regions.
joedirt199
02-18-21, 10:51
So here is my take from both sides of the fence. I went through a pretty progressive police academy back in 2002 where they put us through several sociological experiments to teach us about immigration, homelessness, etc.
So one October night they sent us up to St. Louis to assist a prior homeless person to hand out sandwiches and water bottles to homeless in the area. We got to meet real homeless people making their way on their own. One group of 3 lived in a konex box over the river and had a decent setup. They were mid 30's and told us their story. One was a construction worker who fell and hurt his back and could no longer work. He didn't want to be a burden on his family or get government hand outs so he went to live on his own. They had saved up money to stay in a nice hotel to get a shower and a decent nights sleep. A group of drug addicts busted into their home and beat them with boards with nails, the wounds were evident as one had a broken arm, several little puncture marks and stole their money. Pretty nice guys on hard times. Most of the homeless we encountered were just making their ways on their own not out begging for hand outs or bothering the normal people.
We then went to a local charity homeless shelter and patted down people coming in for the night to make sure they weren't bringing in weapons. This also deterred those showing up to take advantage of the weaker people.
To top it off the instructors took us to a park and told us to pair up for the night. We spent 8 hours sleeping in a park with a wool blanket, peanut butter sandwich, and bottle of water. Real homeless were trying to get us to come with them to sleep in a warmer place. There were 2 off duty cops who showed up to keep an eye on us as they never got out of their cars and turned them off and on all night to warm up. We did have pocket knives for protection. The dick instructors had the park maintenance people turn the sprinklers on us that night so that was fun.
Now in my law enforcement experience I have come across a few "homeless" and I use quotes because the ones who beg are not homeless. One was a late 50's white guy who said he was saving up money for a knee surgery and during the summer you could see his knees where shit. Well a year later he was still doing it. I ran into an apartment manager who informed me that guy lived in one of his buildings and would call local churches to beg them to pay his rent for a few months when he couldn't get the money on his own. He would walk 2 miles to work the intersection for handouts. I saw him again and had a different tone. Told him if he could stand out there all day in the heat and cold he could get a job. He said he put in applications as he walks past 3 gas stations to get to the intersection and says they won't hire him. I call bullshit on him applying.
Another one lived 20 miles away and rode in with a person who worked in the area. He would beg all day, then get picked up and go back to a hotel where his wife and kids stayed. I told him one day to pick up his shit and beat feet because that was crap he was coming down here to beg when he could work up in the city in walking distance. If he came back he was getting a ticket. He pulled out his cell phone and called for a ride. Next day he was back. Out came the ticket book. He said he needed cash to pay the hotel and couldn't wait for a pay check. Don't care.
People begging are drug addicts preying on people's charity and many abuse the churches as they feel they are helping the needy but actually enabling the worst. Drugs are driving people out of good jobs and family are tired of bailing them out of trouble only to be victimized over and over. We have several calls for tent cities being set up in common grounds of subdivisions and wooded areas. A pair of officers must have felt sorry for one group as they went and bought them some clean clothes and groceries. They reporting party called back to complain that nothing was done to run them off. Well they would just go to another area and get complained on there.
Can only help those that want it.
Evel Baldgui
02-18-21, 15:54
In regard to California "spending" $13 billion dollars on the homeless problem; I'd venture to guess that great deal of that money was deferred to the bank accounts of _____, fill in criminal democratic politician of choice, Schiff,pelosi, Feinstein, newsome, waters,et al.
We call it the Homeless Industrial Complex in the Seattle Metro area. Millions on top of millions being dumped into various city and state subsidized "non-profits" who absolutely no results to show for it. The response, they just need more money.
Those who are still homeless in the major metro areas are homeless by choice. In King County, WA we have access to more resources for the homeless and drug addled (usually the same people) than anywhere else in the Northwest. If they want to get back on their feet and become functioning members of society, the path is there. Instead it is a lifestyle for them where they have learned to work the system for handouts, food banks, abuse the generosity of your churches, and break into your cars to steal your stuff. Each encampment I go to has buckets of drug paraphernalia just laying on the ground. I've completely lost my sympathy or empathy for the homeless after working in LE and dealing with their bulls#!t daily for the last 4 years. I was at one camp today that had literal buckets of human waste sitting outside. They had a garbage dump set up just downwind of them. The dump was 30 foot long by 3-4 feet high, and probably 4 feet wide.
Unfortunately there are “throw away people” you could give them 50 grand to get back on their feet and they would have it in their arm or in a pipe so fast it would make your head spin.
At my department, the mayor initiated a “road home program”. They got with several non profits and offered free bus tickets to anywhere in the country. This was done to let them go home to their families. In reality it was just to get them to go anywhere but there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
joedirt199
02-19-21, 07:37
Yeah we have a crazy lady in her late 20's that just keeps popping up every couple of months. She will get called on because she is stripping down roadside or yelling at random people. Pretty sure she has schizophrenia and uses drugs. I feel sorry for her because her family is done with her and she will end up being raped and murdered in some weirdo's van or basement. I found her walking around in a robe and t shirt on a 10* morning with no where to go. Had to take her to the hospital since she was so out of it. She started flipping out and had to be cuffed up. Dr at the hospital was not amused that I brought her and asked why. Put him in his place and walked out. She just gets leveled out for a month then back to crazy jamie. Not enough money in the world to fix these people.
El Vaquero
02-20-21, 18:20
The vast majority of homeless are homeless by choice. Like others have said the vast majority are mental cases and/or drug users. Most have exhausted all patience with family members. Most want to do what they want when they want, and don’t want anyone to tell them what to do or how to do it. And to their credit, this is America. You can do that.
There’s no fix for this.
The only thing is to setup homeless communities dare I say like containment camps. Where city ordinances restrict them from certain areas. Still baffles me how cities haven’t addressed it from a public health angle. The homeless living on the street pee and poop right there on the sidewalk and carry roaches, bed bugs, and other nasty critters. How this isn’t a public health nuisance is beyond me.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-21-21, 16:49
Don't see many so-called 'homeless' around here. A lot of bums live in camps in the woods or behind a tree line close enough to the city to beg and steal but otherwise stay out of sight. For some it's a way of life. For others it's temporary. Now and then a developer will have to clear them put for a project. Below is a classic example around the end of last year. Of course it's always a sob story of victimization.
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A plan to develop the site of a decades-old homeless encampment in Chattanooga, Tennessee has led to the forced displacement of its approximately 50 inhabitants. The eviction takes place as temperatures in the state are beginning to drop and the COVID-19 pandemic continues to rage unabated.
On Tuesday, September 29, inhabitants of the campsite were abruptly met with bulldozers and excavators, along with police, and given as little as five minutes to collect their belongings and vacate the premises. The partially wooded lot, located approximately 10 minutes from downtown Chattanooga, has been vacant for at least two decades and is a well-known location in the community.
Patricia Rector, a longtime inhabitant of the site, told the Chattanooga Times Free Press, “They didn’t tell us. I lived here 20 years, and they don’t give me any notice before taking away my home.” Crystal Ellis, who had been living at the camp for a year and a half, also speaking to the Times Free Press, said that the police “wouldn’t let us get our tents, they wouldn’t let us get half of our stuff, and they never gave us any warning.” Scarlet Newsome, a wheelchair-bound amputee who had been living at the site for three months, noted that she had been given just minutes to exit the site.
More here: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/10/02/chat-o02.html
Help people that WANT help. All the rest are just a burden and a continuous cycle to no where.
Help people that WANT help. All the rest are just a burden and a continuous cycle to no where.
Yep. This is the correct answer.
Averageman
02-22-21, 22:21
Austin keeps throwing money at the problem. The money attracts more homeless.
They are actually putting tens of millions in to buying entire Hotels for them to stay in. Wanna guess what they will look like in five years, think Cabini Green with a Western flair. Keeping Austin weirder.
At my department, the mayor initiated a “road home program”. They got with several non profits and offered free bus tickets to anywhere in the country. This was done to let them go home to their families. In reality it was just to get them to go anywhere but there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Back in the day, we made any transients feel very unwelcome by citing or arresting them for any actual violation or crime that they committed, while also offering them a ride to the nearest larger city.
Free travel "anywhere but here" has been a popular course of action in a lot of cities:
https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/nyc-homeless-initiative-sends-people-across-us-without-telling-receiving-cities/
"New York City generously shares its homeless crisis with every corner of America.
From the tropical shores of Honolulu and Puerto Rico, to the badlands of Utah and backwaters of Louisiana, the Big Apple has sent local homeless families to 373 cities across the country with a full year of rent in their pockets as part of Mayor Bill de Blasio’s “Special One-Time Assistance Program.” Usually, the receiving city knows nothing about it..."
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/02/03/hawaii-news/legislation-seeks-to-continue-flying-isle-homeless-back-home/
"People in Hawaii were outraged when the New York mayor’s office last year sent a homeless family to an unidentified island with a guaranteed job and a year’s worth of housing payments.
By comparison, since 2014, private and public Hawaii funds have paid for half of the airfare to send 744 homeless people back to their families on the mainland and to the Federated States of Micronesia — without any obligation from Hawaii of prearranged jobs or housing support. The homeless people’s families paid the other half of the airfare...
...On the other end, there are three rules that homeless people in Hawaii and their families have to meet in order to qualify to be reunited:
“A loved one, a family member, had to be identified on the other side,” Hannemann said. “Secondly, the individual had to be ready to go back. And thirdly, the message is, ‘We don’t want you to return.’..."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattle-san-francisco.html
"SEATTLE — The solution is cheap and simple: As cities see their homeless populations grow, many are buying one-way bus tickets to send people to a more promising destination, where family or friends can help get them back on their feet.
San Francisco’s “Homeward Bound” program, started more than a decade ago when Gov. Gavin Newsom of California was the city’s mayor, transports hundreds of people a year. Smaller cities around the country — Myrtle Beach, S.C., and Medford, Ore., among them — have recently committed funding to the idea.
And in Seattle this past week, a member of the King County Council proposed a major investment into the region’s busing efforts, fearing that the city was on the receiving end of homeless busing programs from too many other cities..."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-sued-over-program-that-moves-homeless-to-other-municipalities-11575412379
"The city of Newark, N.J., has filed a lawsuit against New York City and its mayor, Bill de Blasio, over a program that has relocated thousands of New York’s homeless-shelter residents to municipalities across the country.
The suit, which was filed on Monday in a federal court in New Jersey, accuses Mr. de Blasio and New York City of coercing shelter residents to move into apartments that were illegal, had no heat or electricity and were rife with rodent and roach infestations.
Under the program, about 1,100 families in shelters have been moved to apartments in Newark in the past two years, making the New Jersey city the second-most-common relocation destination, according to New York City records. That has led to a “public nuisance in the form of increased homelessness and dilapidation” in Newark, the lawsuit says..."
Help people that WANT help. All the rest are just a burden and a continuous cycle to no where.
I would only add help the people who WANT help and who actually CAN be helped. A lot of them are so detached from our reality / civilization that they can't be helped very easily. Even if it isn't your fault, if you live as a constant victim of street predators who exploit you for anything and everything they can and that happens long enough...normal is a different state of mind.
Also homeless isn't a "single issue" challenge.
People are homeless because they:
Lost everything in some kind of financial / economic disaster.
Lost everything because of destruction of family or their family.
Lost everything because of some mental challenge.
Lost everything because they F'ed with drugs and drugs won.
Lost everything because they never had anything.
Lost everything because they never had the skills to get anything.
Saw or experienced some really bad shit and just don't care anymore.
Prefer the Hobo Joe / Riding the Rails experience.
Rejected conventionalism and decided to be a full time camper / hiker.
Or any number of 100 other things that can happen. People who think they have a One Size Fits All solution are as deluded as those who think they can solve crime by banning guns.
Obviously many, many, many homeless people end up with common challenges such as substance abuse, physically impaired, some level of mental illness and everything that comes with being treated like a disposable paper plate. But we forget that for much of their lives those frontier men we grew up reading about and learned to respect were kinda...well...homeless. They only difference is they made their own way ON PURPOSE and by design and had the tools and the skills to pull it off. I know a small handful of people who try and live that life but it's difficult to cross borders and own defensive tools such as guns without a fixed address.
My city had a huge homeless problem so we passed an ordinance outlawing panhandling. So they migrated to the cities north and south of us... and those cities did the same. I don't know where they went, probably the next city w/o anti-panhandling laws.
Johnny Rico
02-23-21, 14:43
Back in the day, we made any transients feel very unwelcome by citing or arresting them for any actual violation or crime that they committed, while also offering them a ride to the nearest larger city.
Free travel "anywhere but here" has been a popular course of action in a lot of cities.
IIRC that very phenomenon was depicted in an early scene in First Blood.
IIRC that very phenomenon was depicted in an early scene in First Blood.
Was just going to mention that.
Was just going to mention that.
LMAO!!
The difference being that it wasn't all in one encounter, and we arrested and cited them for legitimate criminal offenses such as urinating in public, illegal camping, disorderly conduct, criminal trespass. Righteous arrests. We didn't arrest people for simply being homeless or vagrant.
They would get offers for rides on different occasions, nothing forced, and if they passed on offers, that was fine. If they were going to be in our community, they needed to be in compliance with the law, not littering the parks with needles or shitting on the sidewalks.
Walking through town was fine too. We didn't violate anyone's rights. At least what was considered peoples rights in Oregon at that time. Oregon case law is night and day from what it used to be now.
LMAO!!
The difference being that it wasn't all in one encounter, and we arrested and cited them for legitimate criminal offenses such as urinating in public, illegal camping, disorderly conduct, criminal trespass. Righteous arrests. We didn't arrest people for simply being homeless or vagrant.
They would get offers for rides on different occasions, nothing forced, and if they passed on offers, that was fine. If they were going to be in our community, they needed to be in compliance with the law, not littering the parks with needles or shitting on the sidewalks.
Walking through town was fine too. We didn't violate anyone's rights. At least what was considered peoples rights in Oregon at that time. Oregon case law is night and day from what it used to be now.
So I'm glad YOU didn't do it, but we both know how these things often work.
Failure to comply with officers directives, failure to produce valid identification, etc.
If somebody wants to find a reason to cite, for right or for wrong, it usually isn't that hard and even if it doesn't exist right now, most people can be steered in that direction. Shit even lawyers F it up and get arrested from time to time and they know the drill as well as anyone. That hardest thing to do is probably arrest another LEO who hasn't done anything "yet" but I've even seen that brought to conclusion.
And just to be fair, most of us get that many times directives come from "above" and individual LEOs aren't left the discretion they usually have at their disposal. And while we are being fair, one of the most difficult 5 minute evaluations is "good guy homeless person or bad guy homeless person." It's hard to be objective and fair with a group that on the best days are generally incoherent, non cooperative and probably holding.
And just so you get that I fully understand where you are coming from, I was once friends with Ft. Lauderdale PD officer Bryant Peney who worked a detail at the mall my girlfriend managed, he was killed chasing a homeless person across the street who ran on him during a contact and fired a single shot from a .357 magnum which struck officer Peney through the opening of his vest under his armpit. He died at the age of 27.
But that said, I also knew a small handful of homeless guys, including two vets, who should have never been homeless but that's how it happened and I would have hated to see them get jammed up with the rest. It's almost "no win."
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